Gravity question

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Adam, Apr 12, 2002.

  1. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Could gravity be sort of an accumulated influence of residual electroweak force or residual electromagnetic force? Not sure if that's what it's called. But I believe there is some "left over" from the equilibrium of both EM and EW combinations/matches.
     
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  3. Adam,

    No one is answering your post because most of the people here believe that gravity is the result of curved space. They freak out if you attempt to give an alternate theory.

    "Could gravity be sort of an accumulated influence of residual electroweak force or residual electromagnetic force?"

    I'm not very informed about the weak interaction, so I can't say whether it can be responsible for gravity. I can tell you that the electromagnetic force is probably not. As you know, the electromagnetic force has two poles. Opposite poles attract while like poles repel each other. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to construct the electromagnetic forces in objects in a way that the objects would ONLY attract each other, like in gravity.


    Tom
     
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  5. thed IT Gopher Registered Senior Member

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    Or we could be busy with other things. Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be adequately explained by stupidity, or time pressure! It's mid-night here and I'm watching Sci-Fright as well. Really cheesy vampire film called Count Yorga rises again, or something.

    For once, Tom, you are making sense. EM can not explain gravity. Nor can the other forces, weak and strong nuclear force, for the same reasons. Says a lot, doesn't it. Gravity is some how different yet acording to modern thought they are all aspects of some underlying principle or unified force.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Tom,

    If you'd like to learn about curvature and why your electromagnetic objection to curved space really doesn't work, investigate string theory a little. I highly recommend the book <i>The Elegant Universe</i> by Brian Greene. It doesn't assume any prior knowledge.
     
  8. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    So, what happens to that residual nuclear force? It doesn't have any attractive effect on other mass?
     
  9. Adam,

    If you are referring to the strong interaction, there is a possibility that gravity is ascociated with it.

    As you know. the strong interaction works only at very short distances and is very powerful, while gravity works at large distances and is very weak.

    If, however, if there are two spheres of gravity, the small sphere which is the about size of the atomic nucleus, and a larger sphere which extends light years, and if the strength of the gravity in the small sphere is much more powerful than the larger sphere, then gravity might actually be responsible for the strong interaction.


    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2002
  10. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    That is definitely one thing I do nto understand. How can a powerful force suddenly reduce in power at a given range? Wouldn't it lose power progressively the further out you go? How could it lose power say at range1=1/2, range2=1/4, range3=1/8, then suddenly nothing at all? (Just example figures.) It doesn't make much sense to me, not yet anyway.
     
  11. Adam,

    "That is definitely one thing I do nto understand. How can a powerful force suddenly reduce in power at a given range? Wouldn't it lose power progressively the further out you go? How could it lose power say at range1=1/2, range2=1/4, range3=1/8, then suddenly nothing at all? (Just example figures.) It doesn't make much sense to me, not yet anyway."

    It is accepted that all forces lose power progressivly as you move further away, just as you indicated. But the power of the strong interaction, whether you associate it with gravity or not, does sharply lose power as you move further away.

    Also, you have to consider matter itself. If you consider matter to be a kind of force, then this force drops off suddenly, as well.

    Example: Look at a neutron. It has no charge and a negligable gravitational field, but it has a set boundry, and a set radius. This radius might be an indication of a force that drops to zero suddenly, as well.

    Tom
     
  12. Crisp Gone 4ever Registered Senior Member

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    1,339
    Hi Tom,

    Some small remarks:
    • A neutron does not have a well defined boundary (neither does any particle) because of the quantummechanical wave character involved. You can understand that this complicates things

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      .
    • A "sudden drop to zero" is not something scientists like. This would involve a discontinuity in the force (from a certain value immediatelly to zero), and scientists assume that nature works in a "continuous fashion". I believe it was Leibnitz who used the proverb "Natura non facit saltus", nature doesn't make jumps. (Ok, Leibnitz used it in a different context, but nevertheless I think it applies here). In mathematical models physicists use discontinuous examples (eg. the potential barrier) but the little footnotes always (should) say that in real life, the "jumps" are continous.

    Bye!

    Crisp
     
  13. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    I recall that name Leibniz. Was he one of the guys who came up with calculus or something?
     
  14. Neutrino_Albatross Legion of Dynamic Discord Registered Senior Member

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    Gravity probaly cant be residual strong and weak forces Here's why.

    Leptons (electrons, Neutrinos, Muons Taus) are effected by gravity but not strong force. If Gravity is just left over strong force leptons wouldn't interact with it. If its both weak and strong than leptons would feel gravity but weaker than hadrons (protons, neutrons, mesons) which interact with both forces.

    Also I think that theorists would have an easier time unifiying gravity with the other forces if it was actually the same force.
     
  15. SpyFox_the_KMeson Doctorate of Yiffology Registered Senior Member

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    uberyiffy

    Well, if gravity were residual strong and/or weak forces, it would have the same carrier particles, which it does not. And the strong force does not "drop off" at a certain distance, it just becomes very weak very quickly.
     
  16. thed IT Gopher Registered Senior Member

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    The thing to realise is that nuclear forces do not behave like gravity. It's all part of this Relativity and Quantum Mechanics incompatibility thing.

    At the scale of a proton and neutron they are held together by gluons. The gluon (as the name suggests) sticks things together. For some reason, as yet unexplained, they do not affect things much beyond this scale.

    Same for the weak nuclear force. It is 'felt' by nucleons as the exchange of carrier particles. Again, they do not affect things beyond this scale.

    Only Gravity and EM forces have a long distance affect.

    BTW, there is an electroweak force that combines EM and weak nuclear forces. Now all they need do is found the Electrostronggravitic force, the grand unified force, and we're off.
     

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