Pit Bull viciously attacks baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw

 

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conclusion: babies should be banned

 

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Conclusion: Parents should be banned.

Baron Max

 

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Round two: Baby attacks vicious Pit Bull.

 

Good video.

 

Good video indeed!

Here's another one:

vicious pitbull attack - not for the sqeamish!

 

Fraggle,

You being a breeder, you should also know damn well that there is no such thing as a bad dog, only a bad owner. Whether or not you've seen, or believe Cesar's (the Dog Whisperer) teachings, they're right on. Those aren't camera tricks or staged scenes on his show either.
I'm really tired of seeing news like this. IMO, the owner of that pit should be charged as if they were the ones directly responsible for the attack.
You being a dog breeder, you should also know that Boxers were bred to take down big game (thus their ancestor the brabanter bullenbeisser) and were also used extensively in fighting. You don't see them with a vicious reputation, do you????? They are also one of the top five breeds that are the best around children.
The people you know that have pits that warn you about bringing other dogs over sounds to me like they have no friggin clue on how to 'alpha' their dog.
It's simple really; pit owner has guests that bring little dog. Pit growls and lunges at guest's dog. Pit owner rushes over to pit and puts pit to the floor and forces a submission (much like an alpha of a wolf pack would do to a subordinate), giving pit bull clear message that it is not the one in charge and that the owner will not stand for that kind of behavior. I mean, c'mon. How friggin simple is that???
You being a breeder, Fraggle, should already be aware of that.

Pit bulls should not be the ones banned; It's the bad owners that need to be banned, from life!

 

Pit bulls should be banned. It is so easy, just stop them from breeding.

 

^^^Typical ingorance when it comes to dogs. *shakes head in disbelief*

 

I agree with what mikenostic said, and would like to add a bit.

My brother has an American Staffordshire - Jake.

Jake is a wonderful, sweet, gentle dog.
He gets along with my four nephews (a 5 year old, a six year old and two 16 year olds).
Neighbor kids of all ages come over and play all the time, and there has never been any sort of difficulty or any reason to worry at all.
Never an incident.
I will not bring my small dogs (Jack Russel Terriers) over my brother's house to play with him.
The reason I will not bring my dogs over there, however, is not Jake's fault - it is my dogs' fault.

Small dogs get insecure around big dogs Jack Russels are some of the worst.
Thea, the smaller one, has taken on Dobermans, Sheepdogs, German Shepherds and others.
The two of them together are hellions, because they exhibit pack behavior and protect each other.
When we go to the dog park, there are often 20 plus dogs there, and Max and Thea are usually the only two with muzzles on.

Further...
The only times either of my dogs have been bitten was by small dogs (and, like I said, they initiate attacks on the big ones).

If I brought my dogs to my brother's house, there will not likely be a problem.
I have a friend that brings her dog over, and we leave them alone in the house together.
If they are introduced properly, the other dog is not agressive and it's only one other dog, there isn't often any issue.

If there is a problem, it will because one of my dogs bit Jake.

When Thea attacks, she does so with ferocity and serious agression.
Jake may have to defend himself, and I wouldn't blame him if he did.

 

Nope, not to sound rude, but it's your fault....

Small dogs often get insecure around big dogs because their owners get nervous at the situation. Believe it or not, dogs are EXCELLENT at picking up their owners' vibe and reading their body language.

If you kept an eye on them and discplined them everytime they even looked like they were going to initiate an attack, you wouldn't need muzzles. Plus, not to sound rude again, but if you have to have muzzles on your dog to take them to the dog park, then I would suggest you train them (and yourself), and establish yourself as the alpha before you took them back to the dog park.

I agree. Good philosophy, but you also have to keep an eye on them for the whole duration. They are like kids; if you leave them unsupervised, they can get into bad stuff. See my response below...

If you, as the alpha, are keeping a close eye on your two JR's, then you would also put them to the ground in a submission when they bite big dogs like that. This would let them know that you, as the alpha, will not stand for behavior like that.

Dogs behave aggressively for various reasons, but it usually boils down to their owners not being the alpha that they should. Owners treating dogs like humans is another big mistake. Dogs aren't humans and they don't want to be treated like humans. They don't understand it. Watch how an alpha wolf treats his subordinates. It looks mean and vicious sometimes but it's not.
I would highly suggest watching as many wolf documentaries as you can, and the Dog Whisperer. Cesar's teachings are pretty much directly derived from wolves' behavior in a wolf pack.

 

Actually, it is a little bit of the owners fault for not compensating for the dogs primal nature. (my dad has two chihuahuas, I hate both of the bastards. If I had them, they'd be a hell of a lot more behaved)

In defense of Raven, though, in order to train your small dog not to be territorial, you have to train it a lot. Which few do, and since small dogs are a joke anyway, few bother.

One other annoyance, is that smaller Dog's usually take more aggressive training in order to prove that you're the Alpha at All Times. My dads chihuahuas behave until they're in someone elses possession, at that time they'll normally start being aggressive towards me again.

This is, largely, the fault of my dad for not training them as well. As they think they can get away with it.

 

mikenostic,

You make a lot of assumptions about me.
I can certainly see why you would (they are not unjustifiable) and some of them are even deserved.
I'm willing to bet, though, you have never had a JRT.

I know quite a bit about dog behavior and pack mentality.

They have both been through extensive training, and I am most certainly Alpha in my house.

They are not territorial at all, because it is my territory.
If I look at Thea the right way, she stops whatever she is doing and sits.
Max will sometimes pee submissively when I scold him.

When they fight each other, or get a little too snappy with me or my girlfriend, they are instantly pinned down by the neck until they calm down.

It is most certainly not an issue of Alpha control.

I fully admit, however, that they have limited experience with other dogs, and we haven't spent nearly enough time socializing them with other dogs in groups. I know the more time Thea spends with other dogs the better she will be, because they will be bigger strangers correcting her behavior and not letting her get away with her puppy shit anymore.
She is very much like my nephew who was suspended from school in the 1st grade for pissing on the bathroom wall trying to impress the 6th graders. She has to prove she can run with the big dogs.
The only time Max gets in trouble is when she pushes a big dog too far (or a smaller dog pushes her) and he feels he has to protect her.
We have made the commitment to spend much more time at the dog park this summer and work on that. We are hoping to have them off the muzzles by the end of the summer.

The fact remains, however, that smaller dogs will often get intimidated and feel insecure around bigger dogs.
Unless that small dog has spent an appreciable amount of time around different big dogs, they will not know how to act, and will often attack those big dogs.
If I had a pit (which I plan on getting in the next two years or so) I would not allow little dogs over to play with my pit for that reason.

 

No I haven't, but my aunt Karen has one. I do have a Boxer and a Doberman though; both of which are every bit as energetic as a JRT (esp. the Boxer).
Dobermans, like small dogs, also tend to constantly test you to see if you are the alpha and how much they can get away with. They are def one of the most pushy, dominant breeds I've worked with; and male Dobes tend to not be very accepting of other male dogs (of any breed) around them.

Fair enough. Assumptions have been cleared. It does seem that they should be socialized a bit more. I just figured that a breeder would have all those bases covered, but sometimes it requires a lot of time to spend with the dogs to socialize them.

The thing that sucks the most about that is it wouldn't be because of you, it would be the owners of the other dogs. For example, if I ever brought my Boxer over to meet your pit, I would make sure she assumed the down position and submitted since it wouldn't be her house.

 

Most attacks I've seen pressed seem to involve dogs that live with a particular archetype of master. Usually not just a drug user, but someone that sells the drug they use to. It's not good to subject dogs to marijuana for instance as the drug is known to generate schizophrenic tendencies in humans and is more than likely going to increase the paranoid state of an already aggressive dog. (Aggression usually comes from how it's master treats it, after they usually purchase the dog to look harder than they actually are and to act as a defense against people either trying to rip their drugs off or from the police gaining an expedient entry during a raid)

 

mikenostic, is correct, in the home, read the pack in a dogs mind you have to be the Alpha, or the dog will take that position, it is something that we humans have tried to not face in our own society, we have tried to minimize the pecking order, after all we in our societies, live as nothing more than a organized pack and we still have a definite Alpha order.

 

Nevermind the overwhelming statistics in favor of keeping pitbulls as pets: people respond ridiculously well to emotional presentations like videos and "heartfelt" testimony by laymen.

 

I wonder how many people commenting on this thread watched the videos.

 

I was thinking the same thing...