Mining in the Asteroid Belt - Is it Plausible?

[Teetotaler]

I would think that the astronauts would get cancer from the cosmic rays. And how would we know where in the belt is saturated with the minerals?

[nietzschefan]

Yes, robots would probably work better - there is an asteroid that is very heavy in gold and other heavy metals.

[spidergoat]

Wouldn't transportation costs exceed the value of the minerals?

[nietzschefan]

I don't know that - probably at this time. Maybe Branson will try some day, no one else has the balls.

[Read-Only]

I would think that the astronauts would get cancer from the cosmic rays. And how would we know where in the belt is saturated with the minerals?

No, not at all. Spidergoat gave the proper answer - basic economics. Considering that you might get back with $5 billion worth of gold, platinum or whatever and it cost $10 billion to do it, what has been gained?

[globenstein]

Basic economics also say that gold's value can change over time. If the demand is high enough (electronics) and the supplies are inexistant on earth (as long as it may take, it will happen), much will be gained.

[Read-Only]

Basic economics also say that gold's value can change over time. If the demand is high enough (electronics) and the supplies are inexistant on earth (as long as it may take, it will happen), much will be gained.

Sure - I didn't mean never. But not in the next 50 years or so. There's still plenty of gold available for applications like that (it doesn't really take all that much anyway) and ANY form of activity in space is HUGELY expensive!!

[Communist Hamster]

Well, once colonisation begins in earnest we can't keep shipping out material from Earth. At first, conventional mines will be built on the colonised planets, just like on Earth, only possibly slightly easier because of the lower gravity. However, Mars's gravity may be too high for orbiting the materials needed for large space station construction, and the lunar base may be too far away, so asteroid belt factories may have a niche.

[orcot]

asteroids are pretty darn small have no atmosphere and rotate pretty fast. So launching them is proberly going to be verry simple with a rail gun or something simmilar so no obvious launch costs that use a lunar flyby to slow down enough to be captured in earth orbit. So launch costs are going to be pretty small yust as the risk that any cargo end up in our atmosphere due to miscalculations. Besides if their not really picky on witch asteroid they wan't then they can dock with a NEAR earth asteroids that requires less delta v then it takes to reach the moon. And perhaps it can manufactor it's own fuel and fly to more economical targets

[w1z4rd]

We need transporter technology :( We need it so we can simply extract the elements we need, and recreate them into anything we want. I would assume once we have transporter technology, virtual replication of individual elements into objects you need would be the next logical step.

[orcot]

I believe that NASA, ESA and pretty much all space agency's somewhere recognise that sending people into space by non nulcear rocketery is either going to force space vehicles in miniatures or in longer duration in both possibilities humans will get sqeeshed out and besides it expensive. That's proberly the main reason why I'm hoping that it's possible and economical to built a space elevator.

[w1z4rd]

I think the trick to ftp is not to move places, but to get the places to come to you. In a manner of speaking. There are ways to move faster than light...

Reminds me of that test they did by taking two protons from the same atom and firing them in opposite directions. When they changed the spin/orbit of the one proton, the other one reacted instantaneously in an equal and opposite manner.

The funny thing.. the time it took for the protons to communicate was ftl. It was instantaneous... and I remember reading.. no matter how far apart they are, they will communicate instantly.

Now the place where they communicate... thats where we need to travel to.

[Vega]

I know a couple alien friends who would let me borrow their spaceship for this operation:)

[w1z4rd]

I know a couple alien friends who would let me borrow their spaceship for this operation:)

You laugh now. Everything we can think of we can make happen. Remember the day when automatic doors that opened by themselves, satellites and lasers were all just science fiction. Science fiction has a way of becoming non-fiction... faster than a lot of people realize.

[Vega]

You laugh now. Everything we can think of we can make happen. Remember the day when automatic doors that opened by themselves, satellites and lasers were all just science fiction. Science fiction has a way of becoming non-fiction... faster than a lot of people realize.

I'm sure it's all possible, but given the current level space technology it would have to wait a few more decades to achieve these objectives!

Why go all that way to an asteroid belt when the moon's closer?

[w1z4rd]

I'm sure it's all possible, but given the current level space technology it would have to wait a few more decades to achieve these objectives!

Why go all that way to an asteroid belt when the moon's closer?

True, since the asteroids would not be easily min-able I allowed my mind to wonder.

[orcot]

I Don't really see the connection between FTL and asteroid mining as one is a economical busniss while the other envolves rechearge into the fabric of space and time. Annyway mining asteroids will take a lot of energy to build a capable craft. While obviously the grinding of materials under extreme enviromental conditions will also recruire constant repairs. However sucking up dirt heating the stuff inside a machine to extract the volatiles is not such a difficult task so as using magnetis to extract iron and perhaps melt them in a form.. And there are proberly other mineral extraction methods. It stands to reason that a mining station that delivers steel profiles with double steel plates with a silicium (dirt) layer inbetween for isolation. Is going to be a lot simpler then a base star construction site that develops ready ships with a alumium titanium coating, organic circuitry and FTL drives.
Besides asteroids are only piles of already loose ruble actually mining them with current technology might be inpossible however sucking up anything that lays loose on the surface might be a possibility

[eburacum45]

The smallest asteroids (less than 100 metres) cannot be loose rubble piles, because they spin so fast gravity is negative at their equator; this will make mining interesting but not impossible.

Almost all the products of asteroid mining will be consumed in space, to build spacecraft and habitats. Very few products of mining in space will be valuable enough to merit the expense of landing it from Earth orbit. So that is the limiting condition; if the solar system is extensively explored and settled, the asteroids will be mined; if not, not. Simple economics.

[orcot]

Things grow differently in space, crystals form differently. Their is a market for space manufactored goods that can be transported to earth but they are not raw minerals.

The smallest asteroids (less than 100 metres) cannot be loose rubble piles, because they spin so fast gravity is negative at their equator; this will make mining interesting but not impossible.

Seems likely but there saying the same abouth the milky way either. Cohension and adhesion forces could be at play and offcourse there is some connection. Annyway if it's benneficial that it's proberly possible to brake a small one up by some advanced sonar that uses resonant frequency.

[Janus58]

asteroids are pretty darn small have no atmosphere and rotate pretty fast. So launching them is proberly going to be verry simple with a rail gun or something simmilar so no obvious launch costs that use a lunar flyby to slow down enough to be captured in earth orbit.
Starting with an asteroid at an average orbit of 3 AU, by the time it it reaches the Earth it will be have a minimum relative speed to the Earth of 6.6 km/sec. Even with an optimum lunar flyby, you would only be able to shed about 800 m/sec, well short of that needed for capture (remember, escape velocity from the Earth is only 1.4 km/sec at lunar orbit distance).

So launch costs are going to be pretty small yust as the risk that any cargo end up in our atmosphere due to miscalculations.

Besides if their not really picky on witch asteroid they wan't then they can dock with a NEAR earth asteroids that requires less delta v then it takes to reach the moon.
How do you figure that? Even a NEA that passes closer to the Earth than the moon will be traveling at greater than escape velocity (otherwise it would be captured by the Earth), and you will have to match velocity with it.
So you would have to achieve escape velocity from the Earth plus the extra velocity difference in order to dock with a NEA, and this extra velocity can be in 10's of km/sec. And the vast majority of NEAs pass at greater than Lunar distance.

[Communist Hamster]

I've always thought that trying to capture the asteroid in Earths orbit is a bit risky. If something goes wrong, millions of people die. Why not simply crash it onto the moon instead?

[orcot]

So you would have to achieve escape velocity from the Earth plus the extra velocity difference in order to dock with a NEA, and this extra velocity can be in 10's of km/sec. And the vast majority of NEAs pass at greater than Lunar distance.

okay this might be a stupid ID but say the asteroid aweights the asteroid before it arrives and shoots a hook in it with a multi km rope, it manauvres so that it doesn't get crushed by the asteroid and either tries to rip a large piece of the asteroid and get it into a ellips orbit around the earth or it uses the rope to wield ... it ... in :) I'm sure the rope couldn't hold the strengt but considering it's a ruble pie it might not be inpossible to rip a +100 ton chunck out of it. That's not bad for beginners.

... are you sure abouth the 10 km/sec difference with earth a 100 meter object would release 19 MT of energy.

http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es2506/es2506page08.cfm

[tablariddim]

Go and get your answer here:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=65653

[pinkiss]

humans only reached moon yet it will take many more years to go to mars and robots arent so usefull because they require lots of energy which mostly they get from sun and asteroid belt is too far this means technology has to go about 100 more years for such things to become tested or even used.

[Mosheh Thezion]

it will happen.... we will mine the asteriod belt...

but the real value.... the worth... is not so much in sending all the gold and stuff home..... its the fact that once we have hold of these mountain siZed asteriods and can move them around... then...

then we can hollow them out, and send the small pieces home.. and use the left over asteriod as a space base... many space bases.

and the cost to move them will be very low... as long as we are not in a hurry....!!!!!!!


-MT

[Janus58]

okay this might be a stupid ID but say the asteroid aweights the asteroid before it arrives and shoots a hook in it with a multi km rope, it manauvres so that it doesn't get crushed by the asteroid and either tries to rip a large piece of the asteroid and get it into a ellips orbit around the earth or it uses the rope to wield ... it ... in :) I'm sure the rope couldn't hold the strengt but considering it's a ruble pie it might not be inpossible to rip a +100 ton chunck out of it. That's not bad for beginners.


... are you sure abouth the 10 km/sec difference with earth a 100 meter object would release 19 MT of energy.

Here's a list of recent and future NEO's with their distances and velocities.
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/close.html


http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es2506/es2506page08.cfm

[orcot]

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/close.html
wow nerdy enough that is a intersting link.

anyway I checked only
(2006 BZ147 (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/db_shm?sstr=2006%20BZ147)) 2007-Sep-09 0.0812 31.6 22 m - 49 m 1.85 km/s
because it moves so slow. And looking at it's orbit parameters it shouldn't be inpossible to attach a solar sail to get it in eart orbit. However if the worth financing something like this?

humans only reached moon yet it will take many more years to go to mars and robots arent so usefull
:bugeye: I do not know I've never heard a robot complaining because he didn't had a return ticket saving precious weight. Let's say that in 2018 the y send 3 asimos in stead of astronauts where 2007 now so we have a other 11 years 11 years back (1996) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Asimo%26p3.jpg/180px-Asimo%26p3.jpg
so I gues similar or more improvements could be expected. Let's also asume that the robots are connected with a umbilical cable but still have their own baterries. So they can last as long as they space suits. The moon or asteroids aren't that far out so the communication is almost instantly (less then 5 sec delay). Is there really so much difference with a guy who is dressed up like a micheline guy that can barely move it's fingers but is actually on the moon then a guy wo's in cousy on earth siting proberly in front of a computer giving instructions or in a scifi way is whearing on of those black suits with reflectors on making the movements that the robot should be making?

[Positron]

what if we could get the robots to go from asteroid ot asteroid before returning? So they could gather enough minerals to balance out and maybe get more value in the minerals than the cost to fly there. althought asteroid drift could be a factor.

[BenTheMan]

But then you still have to get all of this stuff back to earth.

[darksidZz]

Asimo would be useless on Mars, what could it possibly even do?

[orcot]

what could it possibly even do?
On it self not much it's bateries would depled in like 30 minutes and it's electronics would be frozen way before that even happens.
However a asimo in a decend mars lander with a 100 extra ton landing craft (because it needs no return propulsion not to mention lak of air(purification) food and time (so ion engines next to chemical and slower fuel efficient route come in play), and perhaps in a special space suit's yust capable to keep his mild life support (heat and radiation protection mostly) online I don't think a open vacuum cockpit would be much trouble if it's shielded enough against radiation. Add a small nuclear reactor far enough from the electronics that lands with the main craft. And on landing I don't now make the hardware to produce fuel on site, strip the decend engine to make a furnace, find aluminium for a skeleton construction and burn the sand to make glass for domes (less then 300 mbar highly CO2 concentraded for food or food for food)
while finding something to make it air tight.

Anyway the point is that colonisation in the 1500 was imposible and it only worked because people staiyed at their location for the rest of their lifetime.
So colonisation and colonisation could proberly be speed up if there is already a permanent base with a permanent crew on the spot.
I also believe robert zubrin proposed a way to make propellant on mars so the ID might seem outdated but even he believes that he will need to bring the pure hydrogen and food with them. If there is plenty of water on mars and they have a small nuclear reactor (far enoug to protect against radation) then they proberly construct those to.
Also computers keep evolving so a future asimo will proberly have 4 times the memory of the current ones, even if there isn't a extern memory somewhere meanwhile dokters are now able to make churgery to a patient in a other room so advanced hand and arm control might be a next step. Enough to do some engineering.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

lister the cat rimmer and kryton are the best men for the job sir.


peace.