Learn to write Arabic!

[Athelwulf]

I've found this very helpful, interactive Flash thing that shows you how to write Arabic.

http://www.arabacademy.com/download/alphabetwed7introchange5.swf

I've also checked out a book at the library, Very Simple Arabic Script, by James Peters. Arabic writing looked intimidating to me, but after looking through this book, I've found that it's actually quite logical.

I think I would like to learn Arabic, but it means a lot of dedicated effort to learning that I don't think I could reasonably devote right now. There's also the fact that I wanna learn so many languages that it's probably too many. :o If only I had access to a course for Arabic. But oh well.

Tell me what you think of that link.

[S.A.M.]

Its a good way to familiarise yourself with the alphabet, but you do realise that for cursive the alphabets are written slightly differeently based on what precedes or follows them?

Here is some more information:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htm

http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/arabic.gif

[spuriousmonkey]

but you do realise that for cursive the alphabets are written slightly differeently based on what precedes or follows them?


No wonder so many Muslims commit suicide.

[S.A.M.]

No wonder so many Muslims commit suicide.

Its a phonetic language and easier than English.:p

The grammar is similar to French grammar; the only adjustment is writing right to left instead of left to right.

[Nikelodeon]

Whats the point? In a couple of decades we'll all be speaking chinese....

[S.A.M.]

Whats the point? In a couple of decades we'll all be speaking chinese....

The calligraphy looks awesome?

http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/art5.jpg

[Absane]

Is there any way I could "fake it" and use arabic letters to wrte instead of the nomal letters I use in English? Really what I mean is a 1-1 mapping of A-Z with arabic letters? I could write something in English, re-write is backwards, then replace each letter with a corresponding arabic letter?

I know that's not arabic but I thought it might impress people into thinking I know arabic when in fact I don't.

[S.A.M.]

Is there any way I could "fake it" and use arabic letters to wrte instead of the nomal letters I use in English? Really what I mean is a 1-1 mapping of A-Z with arabic letters? I could write something in English, re-write is backwards, then replace each letter with a corresponding arabic letter?

I know that's not arabic but I thought it might impress people into thinking I know arabic when in fact I don't.

You could also try using an English to Arabic translator.:)

[Absane]

You could also try using an English to Arabic translator.:)

No.. that doesn't count. I want to make it seem like I can write something "on the spot." But really, I don't know anything about arabic vocabulary or grammar.

It would be like a cipher thing... replace each letter with something else.

[S.A.M.]

No.. that doesn't count. I want to make it seem like I can write something "on the spot." But really, I don't know anything about arabic vocabulary or grammar.

It would be like a cipher thing... replace each letter with something else.

Sorry cannot help you there.

Here are some simple sites for basic vocab and grammar though

http://www.toasterhead.net/arabic/

http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/index.html

This one is more fun but you need to know how to say the words in Arabic (ie the sounds of each word)

http://www.languageguide.org/arabic/

[Sock puppet path]

Here is a nut that needs a' crackin, have gotten no response from the saudi forums I tried.
How do I write "allah molests children"??

It's for a joke card I want to send to some very religious muslim friends of mine.

[S.A.M.]

Here is a nut that needs a' crackin, have gotten no response from the saudi forums I tried.
How do I write "allah molests children"??

It's for a joke card I want to send to some very religious muslim friends of mine.

Just say it in English or whatever the local language is. That way you can be sure they get it.

[S.A.M.]

Here is a nice vocabulary resource:

Arabic Word A Day

http://arabicwordaday.wordpress.com/

[Xerxes]

Devnagarri looks cooler :cool:

[The Devil Inside]

Its a phonetic language and easier than English.:p

The grammar is similar to French grammar; the only adjustment is writing right to left instead of left to right.

absolutely.
i taught myself in less than six months.

ive forgotten ALOT, due to not practicing, but i remember how easy it was to pick up.

[Athelwulf]

Its a good way to familiarise yourself with the alphabet, but you do realise that for cursive the alphabets are written slightly differeently based on what precedes or follows them?

Yup. It's really interesting. And I like how each of the letters have basic characteristics that make it obviously different from any other letter if you know what the characteristics are. I suppose one couldn't expect it to be any other way, but yeah.

The calligraphy looks awesome?

http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/art5.jpg

That drawing says something? :eek: That's really awesome.

Is there any way I could "fake it" and use arabic letters to wrte instead of the nomal letters I use in English? Really what I mean is a 1-1 mapping of A-Z with arabic letters?

Any one way of making a written representation of a language loosely based on sounds is just as good as any other. There are 28 distinct, basic letters in the Arabic alphabet if I count correctly, plus some extra, modified letters, so there are enough to assign to each Latin letter.

However, if you care about corresponding each Arabic letter to a Latin letter that makes a similar pronunciation, you'd have a tough time with the vowels. Only one Arabic letter is a true vowel as far as I know, 'alif. They have other ways of indicating vowels, if they do it at all. But then I guess it's kinda pointless to worry about similarities of sound.

What's very amazing about Arabic and all other Semitic languages, such as Hebrew, is their unique way of making words out of basic three-consonant roots, which seems to effectively make it pointless to indicate vowels (unless you're a poor learner).

For example, the root KTB. It's concerned with "writing". Add vowels and affixes around this root and you can make a bunch of words concerned with "writing": kataba "to write"; kitaab "a book"; maktab "an office"; maktaba "a library/bookstore"; mukaatib "a reporter"; maktuub "a letter"; and so on.

[S.A.M.]

For example, the root KTB. It's concerned with "writing". Add vowels and affixes around this root and you can make a bunch of words concerned with "writing": kataba "to write"; kitaab "a book"; maktab "an office"; maktaba "a library/bookstore"; mukaatib "a reporter"; maktuub "a letter"; and so on.

That's why its so easy to learn, if you know the roots and how they are represented in different ways, you can recognise words you don't even know.

[Athelwulf]

That's why its so easy to learn, if you know the roots and how they are represented in different ways, you can recognise words you don't even know.

Is there a pattern in adding vowels to these roots, such that you can predict what a word with a certain intended meaning might be, and actually get it right?

[S.A.M.]

Is there a pattern in adding vowels to these roots, such that you can predict what a word with a certain intended meaning might be, and actually get it right?

Yes if you find a couple of roots like KTB and write down the associated terms, you'll see what I mean.

http://www.mesiti.it/arabic/wiki/wiki.asp?db=WikiAsp&o=TheRootSystem

Here is a glossary of roots:

http://wahiduddin.net/words/arabic_glossary.htm

[S.A.M.]

That drawing says something? :eek: That's really awesome.



Yes, isn't it? That one was too difficult for me to read, but this one here is the shahada:

http://www.amaana.org/ISWEB/calipray.gif


* أشهد أن] لا إله إلاَّ الله و [أشهد أن ] محمد رسول الله ]

['ašhadu 'an] lā ilāha illā-llāh, wa ['ašhadu 'anna] muħammadan rasūlu-llāh

Which means: [ I testify that ] There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet.

[Prince_James]

I must say:

Arabesques are beautiful.

[Athelwulf]

Arabic is proving to be much more interesting and amazing than I previously anticipated. :eek:

[S.A.M.]

Arabic is proving to be much more interesting and amazing than I previously anticipated. :eek:

Its a very logical and precise language.

Here is a list of derivations:

http://www.mesiti.it/arabic/wiki/wiki.asp?db=WikiAsp&o=DerivativeFormsOfVerbs

[Roman]

Do you ever smear what you're writing since you write backwards?

I heard the left to right comes from writing on clay tablets. Right handers would erase what they had just written if they went from right to left.

[Xerxes]

The Arab race is left handed. Pffff you didn't know that?

[Fraggle Rocker]

However, if you care about corresponding each Arabic letter to a Latin letter that makes a similar pronunciation, you'd have a tough time with the vowels.You'd have a tough enough time with the consonants. Arabic has a series of glottals, usually transliterated as Q and GH, that is absent in the Indo-European languages. Q is the apostrophe in Cockney wa'er and GH sounds somewhat like urban Brazilian R.

The Latin alphabet was developed for Latin, which is not a very rich language phonetically. Czech, Romanian and other languages had to add letters with diacritical marks. Swedish and Anglo-Saxon created some new letters. Modern English just sticks with the original 22 Latin letters plus the universal J K U W, and doesn't pretend to be phonetic. French bothers to use diacritical marks and still isn't phonetic. Chinese does a better job with the Roman alphabet than we do and they still have to use diacriticals for tone.Only one Arabic letter is a true vowel as far as I know, 'alif.I thought 'alif was the glottal stop, which is represented by the apostrophe? The same letter and same sound as 'aleph in Classical Hebrew. It's silent in the modern language, after sixty or seventy generations of Jews spoke languages that don't have that sound.They have other ways of indicating vowels, if they do it at all. But then I guess it's kinda pointless to worry about similarities of sound.Normally they're not written at all since vowels are almost completely non-phonemic in the Semitic languages, i.e. you'll never mistake the meaning of a word by seeing only the consonants. In Hebrew they're only written in liturgical material for people whose native language is something else who are struggling to recite it phonetically.What's very amazing about Arabic and all other Semitic languages, such as Hebrew, is their unique way of making words out of basic three-consonant roots, which seems to effectively make it pointless to indicate vowels (unless you're a poor learner).You can learn to read and write Hebrew or Arabic without having any idea how the words sound since you don't have to know the vowels to understand the words.

It's not strictly true to say that vowels are not phonemic, since, as you say, they change with grammatical inflection. However, there is always some additional or changed consonant to indicate the new meaning so the vowels remain irrelevant and unnecessary for communication. Your examples illustrate this.

[Athelwulf]

Do you ever smear what you're writing since you write backwards?

I heard the left to right comes from writing on clay tablets. Right handers would erase what they had just written if they went from right to left.

Whenever I write, my hand is below the line. I think for most people, when they write on notebook paper with a narrow-ish space to write, it makes little difference which direction they write in. I remember smudging my writing when I was in elementary school.

But I still wonder.

I thought 'alif was the glottal stop, which is represented by the apostrophe?

Here's what I understand from looking out of the book I checked out from the library:

The name of the letter 'alif written in Arabic with all the marks they omit in everyday text is:

أَلِف

It sucks that it's so hard to see, but it should be visible enough. Over the 'alif are two marks. The higher one is a "cutting hamza", which signifies a glottal stop. When a glottal stop is at the start of a word, an 'alif with this hamza is written (or in everyday writing just an 'alif). In this case, 'alif only serves as a seat for the hamza and has no sound of its own. This is why the fatha, the lower diagonal mark, is there to give it the A vowel sound.

This hamza can also be in the middle or at the end of a word, and will either occur alone or set on top of an 'alif, waaw, or yaa', as determined by a complex set of rules. When these letters serve as seats, they don't have a sound of their own, just like 'alif in the previous example.

So in short, I suppose "'alif" is just a name, just like how in English we call Y "why" when it never makes a "w" sound.

In cases where there is no glottal stop, 'alif is a simple A sound. It's written when a word starts with this sound, and when the vowel in the middle or at the end of a word is a long A.

Here are some examples of all these uses of 'alif, without all the extra marks:

انت 'anta "you (masc. sing.)" ('alif with omitted hamza and fatha)
البيت 'al-bayt "the house" (same as above)
تاج taaj "a crown" (long A)
الله alllah "God" (A at the start of a word)
آب aab "August" (long A sound at the start of a word)

While we're on the subject of glottal stops:
Q is the apostrophe in Cockney wa'er

I think Q is distinct, although very similar. My book says the letter qaaf represents the K sound in English but "spoken from the very back of the throat". It doesn't describe it as a glottal stop. I think that sound is further down the throat.

Normally they're not written at all since vowels are almost completely non-phonemic in the Semitic languages, i.e. you'll never mistake the meaning of a word by seeing only the consonants. In Hebrew they're only written in liturgical material for people whose native language is something else who are struggling to recite it phonetically.

Same as with the Arabic in the Koran. :)

[S.A.M.]

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0609.gif

yawm- (one) day. This word is made out of three letters, yâ', wâw and mîm. But as you see in the Latin translitteration, there is a forth letter coming through: 'a'. This is the short a, unlike the long a, as in 'alif above. In Arabic this is the source of frustration for beginners: Short vowels are not written. That is, there is a way of writing the three short vowels, is small curls above or under the letter it follows, but beyond sometimes religious works, and school books, these are omitted.

The 3 short vowels are: a, u, i. And that's it!
There is a system to how these vowels are used,- Arabic is a very organised language. For now, just settle with learning the sound of each word. That is the best.

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0610.gif

ummî- my mother. With this word, you should note the following: The double letters of mîm, are not written each by themselves, they are written as one letter. There is a curl to indicate just this, but at this beginner's level, the same rule applies as for the short vowels: Learn the sound for each word.

Note that the suffix of a yâ', is the straightforward way of indicating "mine", "my", or "of "me". When putting yâ' at the very end of a word, pronouncing and writing it as one word, you can't go wrong.

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0611.gif

wathaba- to jump, to leap This is a verb. Note that it really means "he jumped, he leaped", as masculin singular past, is presented as the core form for a verb.

Arabic verbs are declined stricly according to 1., 2., or 3. person, gender, and singular, dualis (!!!) and plural. But the good news is: Only two tenses: Perfect (past) and Imperfect (now), while Futurum is simply made by adding the prefix "sa-" to the Imperfect form.

More (http://searchtruth.com/lessons/unit1_grammer.php)

[S.A.M.]

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0914.gif

matār- airport.

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0915.gif

'islām- Islam. One thing here: Note the connection between lâm and 'alif. These two letters have a couple of interesting forms of joining together

http://searchtruth.com/images/arabiclessons/0714.gif

Hajj- greater pilgrimage. This is the word for the most central religious act in Islam - the pilgrimage to Mecca.

[S.A.M.]

Personal Pronouns

I - 'anâ
you (singular, masculin)-'anta
you (singular, feminin)-'anti
he, it -huwa
she, it -hiya
they (plural, masculin) -hum
they (plural, feminin) -hunna
we -naHnu

[Oli]

Jazakallah Khairan, Saiyyadati min al-Yasmin Ibtasaamaat.
Now I can start on the poem... More flaming work!

Sorry Athelwulf - just realised it was YOU started the topic.

[Ziazan]

Thanks for your recommendation.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Personal Pronouns
I - 'anâ
we -naHnuDialects sure do differ. I've heard ane for I.

Such similarity to Hebrew, where "I" is ani and "we" is anakhnu. These people are so obviously brothers. What a shame. They should get along with each other as well as... oh, say, the Swedes and the Norwegians did until not long ago. Or the English and the Germans, the Serbs and the Croats, the Indians and the Pakistanis... :)

Does anyone know if it's easy for a speaker of Arabic to learn Hebrew, or vice versa? I suppose the only place that happens with great frequency is Israel, but it happens there a lot.

[TruthSeeker]

Completely different writting though...

[S.A.M.]

Jordanian Arabic lesson plans (mp3)

Lesson 1:
1. Greetings and Personal Identification (http://www.peacecorps.gov/wws/multimedia/language/mp3/jordanarabic/JO_Arabic_Lesson_1.mp3)

[S.A.M.]

Jordanian Arabic lesson plans (mp3)

Lesson 1:
1. Greetings and Personal Identification (http://www.peacecorps.gov/wws/multimedia/language/mp3/jordanarabic/JO_Arabic_Lesson_1.mp3)

Have been neglecting this thread, sorry

The rest of the lesson plans
http://www.peacecorps.gov/wws/multimedia/language/index.cfm#arabic

More here:
http://www.word2word.com/coursead.html#arabic

[Athelwulf]

I like that, Sam. Jordanian Arabic sounds nice. And I like the accents of the two people they have there to teach you.

I notice the "a" sound, to me, doesn't sound like the "uh" sound you once described to me and that I learned about Classical Arabic. It sounds more like /a/ rather than /ɐ/ or whatever the vowel is in Classical Arabic.

EDIT: Wow, what a coincidence. I was making this post to call your attention back to this thread. But you posted before I did.

EDIT: Now that I listen to it more, I also hear /ɑ/ in some parts. I'm not sure what to think now. I'll have to consult Wikipedia or something.

[cosmictraveler]

I like this style but I still have difficulty trying to write in English.

[S.A.M.]

I like that, Sam. Jordanian Arabic sounds nice. And I like the accents of the two people they have there to teach you.

I notice the "a" sound, to me, doesn't sound like the "uh" sound you once described to me and that I learned about Classical Arabic. It sounds more like /a/ rather than /ɐ/ or whatever the vowel is in Classical Arabic.

EDIT: Wow, what a coincidence. I was making this post to call your attention back to this thread. But you posted before I did.

EDIT: Now that I listen to it more, I also hear /ɑ/ in some parts. I'm not sure what to think now. I'll have to consult Wikipedia or something.

Nobody but scholars speak/write classical Arabic anymore.

And there are regional differences in pronunciation ; however, they are slight enough that you can be understood pretty much by anyone. A few months back, I was stuck at the airport due to flight delays and responded to a call for help by a stewardess for an Arabic-only speaking old lady. I went forward with some hesitation because my Arabic is hardly that fluent, and she was Palestinian (I've never actually heard Palestinian Arabic, so I was uncertain about the similarities/differences). But it was Arabic alright and a good chance for me to practise my diction. In another one of those odd coincidences, I was sitting in the bus ahead of this old lady and her son, and they were trying to figure out directions using a map, speaking in some form of Arabic. I hesitantly turned around and offered to help and (thank God) they understood what I was saying (very badly though it was). So learning any form of Arabic is useful and pretty much helps to put you in good stead in case you decide to go backpacking there.:)

[Athelwulf]

Nobody but scholars speak/write classical Arabic anymore.

And there are regional differences in pronunciation ; however, they are slight enough that you can be understood pretty much by anyone.

What regional variety of Arabic is considered neutral? Is one of them usually taught in Arabic classes, or is classical/standard Arabic taught?

[S.A.M.]

What regional variety of Arabic is considered neutral? Is one of them usually taught in Arabic classes, or is classical/standard Arabic taught?

The grammar is standard, its the dialect that differs; I'm not aware of scholastic differences. But I would assume that since Arabic is a logical language (ie follows precise rules) it would be taught the same way everywhere.

[S.A.M.]

A nice poetry site with oral recital and English translations (press trans before play for translations to appear)

Lets see how many words you can guess/recognise :)

http://www.princeton.edu/~arabic/poetry/

Meter in Arabic poetry
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/literature/poetry.htm

[Hani]

A free grammar site:

http://arabic.tripod.com

[chuuush]

The grammar is standard, its the dialect that differs; I'm not aware of scholastic differences. But I would assume that since Arabic is a logical language (ie follows precise rules) it would be taught the same way everywhere.

Do you know Arabic SAM? To what extent?

[S.A.M.]

Do you know Arabic SAM? To what extent?

I can read, follow dialect, speak terribly and write miserably. Still learning though. :)

[chuuush]

I can read, follow dialect, speak terribly and write miserably. Still learning though. :)

So, I'm in a better state it seems. I listen to news from Aljazeera most of the time and speak formal Arabic, I also write Arabic fluently, though I have problem even undertsanding the spoken colloquial Arabic. It seems like quite a different language. I have heard that Arabic is the richest language regarding the vocabulary...

[S.A.M.]

So, I'm in a better state it seems. I listen to news from Aljazeera most of the time and speak formal Arabic, I also write Arabic fluently, though I have problem even undertsanding the spoken colloquial Arabic. It seems like quite a different language. I have heard that Arabic is the richest language regarding the vocabulary...

Depends where you're from. I can understand Saudis, Egyptians, Morroccans and Sudanese, because I had friends or coworkers from these places. Moroccans speak the most francais version, they use a gauche and a droite rather than yameen and yasaar. Did you learn from an alim?

[Myles]

Is there any way I could "fake it" and use arabic letters to wrte instead of the nomal letters I use in English? Really what I mean is a 1-1 mapping of A-Z with arabic letters? I could write something in English, re-write is backwards, then replace each letter with a corresponding arabic letter?

I know that's not arabic but I thought it might impress people into thinking I know arabic when in fact I don't.

Are you a snake-oil salesman ?

[chuuush]

Depends where you're from. I can understand Saudis, Egyptians, Morroccans and Sudanese, because I had friends or coworkers from these places. Moroccans speak the most francais version, they use a gauche and a droite rather than yameen and yasaar. Did you learn from an alim?

So that's the problem. I don't exactly understand what you mean by Alim. I learnt Arabic partly in school (high school) and partly by my own efforts, but I never had a real chance to practive it with a native speaker for a long time, though I lived in Dubai for over a year, but everybody knows that Dubai is not an Arabic speaking city. Yet I know that though Saudi and Syrian Arabic dialects are the most fluent ones, that of Morocco is hardly similar to Arabic. I had a palestinian friend who told me even he had difficulty understanding the Morroccan version.

[S.A.M.]

So that's the problem. I don't exactly understand what you mean by Alim. I learnt Arabic partly in school (high school) and partly by my own efforts, but I never had a real chance to practive it with a native speaker for a long time, though I lived in Dubai for over a year, but everybody knows that Dubai is not an Arabic speaking city. Yet I know that though Saudi and Syrian Arabic dialects are the most fluent ones, that of Morocco is hardly similar to Arabic. I had a palestinian friend who told me even he had difficulty understanding the Morroccan version.

An alim is a scholar. :)

Yeah, only Tunisians can understand Moroccans. Even Saudis cannot.

[Norsefire]

Saudis don't even know Arabic they can't even speak it right.

SYRIANS and Lebanese are the only people who speak Arabic right and we invented Syriac and Aramean.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Modern Arabic is a spectrum of about 25 neighboring dialects. Each one is intercomprehensible with the next, but progressively more difficult with distance.

The Wikipedia article on Dubai says that 2/3 of its population is from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, so I can see why Arabic is not its primary language.

Over here we're told that throughout the Arab-speaking world all formal classes in the language are in Classical Arabic, which is more or less what they try to speak on radio and TV. You'd have to go to a special dialect coach for acting or espionage to be taught the dialect of any specific modern country.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Is there any way I could "fake it" and use arabic letters to wrte instead of the nomal letters I use in English? Really what I mean is a 1-1 mapping of A-Z with arabic letters? I could write something in English, re-write is backwards, then replace each letter with a corresponding arabic letter? I know that's not arabic but I thought it might impress people into thinking I know arabic when in fact I don't.The alphabets don't map that way. Arabic writing is similar to Hebrew, with letters for consonants only. Vowels are indicated by diacritical marks

The Arabic alphabet is very difficult to master. Unlike Hebrew, which even in "handwriting" consists of separate letters, Arabic even in "printing" is a continuous cursive script. The connections between each possible pair of letters must be done perfectly. It will take a lot of work to write Arabic letters well enough to fool even a casual observer; you might as well study the language.

You'd have an easier time faking Chinese. Once you've learned around 500 words, you start to get an idea of how characters are assembled and you can make up your own. Chances are that a few of them would be real by coincidence.

[S.A.M.]

Saudis don't even know Arabic they can't even speak it right.

SYRIANS and Lebanese are the only people who speak Arabic right and we invented Syriac and Aramean.

The only Syrian I met said la-la-la-la-la all the time, in a sing song voice

I think the Saudis speak local Arabic, there are differences between Taif and the Bedouins.

[Norsefire]

Saudis are greedy traitors who don't know the first thing about Arabic

Syria created civilization, and we speak the fairest Arabic.

[S.A.M.]

Saudis are greedy traitors who don't know the first thing about Arabic

Syria created civilization, and we speak the fairest Arabic.

You mean you speak bookish Arabic. Thats like saying anyone who does not speak classical English does not really speak English.

[Norsefire]

You mean you speak bookish Arabic. Thats like saying anyone who does not speak classical English does not really speak English.

I am SYRIAN do not argue with me. You shouldn't even be speaking Arabic, but since we allow you too show some respect.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Come on you guys. This is the linguistics subforum. Everyone has the right to learn and practice any language he wants. It enriches civilization.

Keep it civil or I'll close the thread.

[chuuush]

I am SYRIAN do not argue with me. You shouldn't even be speaking Arabic, but since we allow you too show some respect.

Norefire, this is ridicuculous. You mean we should ask your permission to learn and speak Arabic? How arrogant! Maybe that's why Arabs are in their current situation today. They conider themselves higher than others, I don't know why?
BTW, I agree that Syrian Arabic is one of the purest dialects, but please do not forget that this is not a political forum, so I would appreciate if you stop despising others (this doesn't mean that I'm in love with the Saudis though :rolleyes:).

[Norsefire]

Whatever, SYRIA was the first civilization and will be the last as well.

[S.A.M.]

What would you say are the major differences between Syrian and other forms of Arabic?

Could you give some examples?

[Fraggle Rocker]

Whatever, SYRIA was the first civilization and will be the last as well.Norse, you have already been reminded that this is not a political forum, and even if it were I doubt that a statement of such hostility to other nationalities would be tolerated. You have also been advised personally by me, the Moderator of Linguistics, to keep the discourse civil.

This is trolling, it is rudeness to the other members, and it is a violation of the rules. Any more posts of this type will be deleted and you will be subject to official action.

You have been warned.

[Norsefire]

What would you say are the major differences between Syrian and other forms of Arabic?

Could you give some examples?

The Syrian dialect is smoother, and Morrocan or Saudi is very rough and difficult to understand.

[Hani]

Saudis don't even know Arabic they can't even speak it right.

SYRIANS and Lebanese are the only people who speak Arabic right and we invented Syriac and Aramean.

Are u 7maar or just trying hard to be one?

[Hani]

S.A.M if you are really interested in knowing what Syrian sounds like you could have checked the link I provided. There are examples there of both Syrian and Iraqi Arabic.

http://arabic.tripod.com/SurvivalPhrasesSyrian1.htm

[Norsefire]

Are u 7maar or just trying hard to be one?

Syria IS the first civilization......but you heard the mod man

[Norsefire]

I don't like Lebanese Arabic, it's too twisted and hard to comprehend

But about the Morrocans, that's the truth! I once knew a Morrocan, and had a hard time understanding him, too rough and I have no clue wth they are saying.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Are u 7maar or just trying hard to be one?No personal insults on the linguistics board please. Maybe you're joking, but with such a highly international cross-section of people here, it would be too easy to misinterpret.

Thanks.
--The Moderator

[Norsefire]

Yes, Hani, calling people donkeys is inappropriate:D

[Fraggle Rocker]

I once knew a Morrocan, and had a hard time understanding him, too rough and I have no clue wth they are saying.There's nothing unique about Arabic having dialects that are difficult to understand. English has lots of them. Set a man from Birmingham, Alabama, down next to a man from Birmingham, West Midlands, and about the only word they'll both understand is "beer." Fortunately that will be enough.

[Norsefire]

There's nothing unique about Arabic having dialects that are difficult to understand. English has lots of them. Set a man from Birmingham, Alabama, down next to a man from Birmingham, West Midlands, and about the only word they'll both understand is "beer." Fortunately that will be enough.

That made me laugh out loud........lol

[chuuush]

Yes, Hani, calling people donkeys is inappropriate:D

Man I had just put 1000N of effort to undertand what 7maar meant.. so 7 is for H, I see

[Fraggle Rocker]

Man I had just put 1000N of effort to undertand what 7maar meant.. so 7 is for H, I seeKhamor (usually transliterated chamor), "donkey" in Hebrew.

[S.A.M.]

Khamor (usually transliterated chamor), "donkey" in Hebrew.

Its humar in Arabic.:p

[chuuush]

Its humar in Arabic.:p

Thanks for the enlightenment :D
Actually I had spent some time with an Israeli ex-diplomat a few years back. I took him and his Italian wife to restaurants and sightseeing and we spoke about Hebrew. It seems many words are just different pronunciations of the Arabic ones. Like Basal, Yum, etc...

[Norsefire]

Thanks for the enlightenment :D
Actually I had spent some time with an Israeli ex-diplomat a few years back. I took him and his Italian wife to restaurants and sightseeing and we spoke about Hebrew. It seems many words are just different pronunciations of the Arabic ones. Like Basal, Yum, etc...

No shit, Hebrew ripped off Arabic

[Fraggle Rocker]

We spoke about Hebrew. It seems many words are just different pronunciations of the Arabic ones. Like Basal, Yum, etc...No shit, Hebrew ripped off ArabicSurely you guys know that Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and several other languages are all members of the Semitic language family and they all derive from a common Proto-Semitic ancestor about six thousand years ago before the Semites split into so many different tribes. Wikipedia has several very good articles on these topics complete with a comparison of several words in all the languages as well as reconstructed Proto-Semitic.

Semitic is just a branch of the Afro-Asiatic superfamily that includes other language families of southwestern Asia and a few from Ethiopia and Somalia, as well as Ancient Egyptian.

If you go back far enough, we're all brothers.

[chuuush]

Surely you guys know that Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and several other languages are all members of the Semitic language family and they all derive from a common Proto-Semitic ancestor about six thousand years ago before the Semites split into so many different tribes. Wikipedia has several very good articles on these topics complete with a comparison of several words in all the languages as well as reconstructed Proto-Semitic.

Semitic is just a branch of the Afro-Asiatic superfamily that includes other language families of southwestern Asia and a few from Ethiopia and Somalia, as well as Ancient Egyptian.

If you go back far enough, we're all brothers.

It seems one brother got a bit greedy huh?

[Fraggle Rocker]

It seems one brother got a bit greedy huh?We've all taken our turns at it. Just look at the membership roster of the Former Great World Powers Gentlemen's Club: Sumeria, Babylonia, Egypt, Persia, Judea, Greece, Phoenicia, Rome, Olmec, India, the Huns, Byzantium, the Mongols, the Vikings, the Tatars, Maya, Arabia, Siam, France, Holland, the Moors, Inca, Aztec, Spain, Vietnam, Ethiopia, the Ottomans, Japan, Germany, England, the USSR... who will be next to retire?

[Norsefire]

Syria will be next to rise, that much I can tell you.

And no Hebrew ripped off Arabic......Jews have never had a single empire in all of history, how sad!

[Hani]

I don't like Lebanese Arabic, it's too twisted and hard to comprehend

I doubt you even know Arabic. There is nothing called "Lebanese Arabic" aside from Syrian Arabic. Lebanese is a mix of different Syrian dialects due to the fact that current Lebanese are all immigrants from within the Syrian interior. Reading Lebanese histroy would make this easy to grasp. Lebanese is mainly a Damascine dialect with some influence from Aleppo dialect.

I'm planing to write soon anout the differences between different Levanitine dialects.

[Hani]

Lebanese resembles much rural Syrian Arabic.

[S.A.M.]

Awesome! The Lane English-Arabic lexicon is now available free online.

http://www.studyquran.co.uk/LLhome.htm

Arabic roots here:

http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

[Diode-Man]

Arabic reminds me of the "Elvin" Lord of the Rings style writing. Has a sleek/ancient look to it.

[John99]

There is no written language like English, and there is a reason for it. Look at pages formatted in English and then look at Arabic or Chinese for example. I am not English either but come on.

[DiamondHearts]

There is no written language like English, and there is a reason for it. Look at pages formatted in English and then look at Arabic or Chinese for example. I am not English either but come on.

Arabic and Chinese are very, very different languages. I am not Arab, but I find it very easy to read and write Arabic, it is even easier to learn than English. All the words are pronounced and reading is very simple, unlike in English with words such as lightning or taught, etc. For people who grow up in Arabic or related environment, English seems just as strange as Arabic seems to you.

[Zephyr]

English is difficult to learn to read because it isn't spelled phonetically. In this respect it doesn't fit in with other European languages - one can learn to read Spanish or Polish in a few hours, if you already know the Latin alphabet.

It's funny that English, the language with the least logical spelling, has ended up the most widely spoken :p

Arabic reminds me of the "Elvin" Lord of the Rings style writing. Has a sleek/ancient look to it.

Beautiful the Tengwar may be, but they are a dyslexic's nightmare. Many of the letters are reversals and rotations of others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Tengwar_sample.svg/350px-Tengwar_sample.svg.png

[DiamondHearts]

It's funny that English, the language with the least logical spelling, has ended up the most widely spoken :p


The result of the colonization by the British Empire. It has nothing to do with the language, but with the military power and conquest of the British.

[OilIsMastery]

http://www.memefirst.com/texas[1].jpg

[Fraggle Rocker]

English is difficult to learn to read because it isn't spelled phonetically. In this respect it doesn't fit in with other European languages - one can learn to read Spanish or Polish in a few hours, if you already know the Latin alphabet.French is arguably as bad as English. I'd say it's a little easier to read but harder to write, so it comes out about even. You can sort of guess which letters are silent when you're reading words, but when writing a word you can't imagine which silent letters to add, or how many of them. Both vowels and consonants can be silent. Aiment is pronounced "em."It's funny that English, the language with the least logical spelling, has ended up the most widely spokenMandarin has more native speakers and it doesn't even have spelling. :)

Language follows the coin, and the Anglophone community of nations has been dominant economically for many decades. That will undoubtedly change. Aramaic had its day, as did Latin and Greek. Chinese or Spanish could be next.

[Medicine*Woman]

Whats the point? In a couple of decades we'll all be speaking chinese....

*************
M*W: I think it will be Espanol.

[Fraggle Rocker]

I think it will be Español.Language follows the money, not the labor. Los latinos hablarán el chino.

[Zephyr]

Language follows the coin, and the Anglophone community of nations has been dominant economically for many decades. That will undoubtedly change. Aramaic had its day, as did Latin and Greek. Chinese or Spanish could be next.
Although the other languages had local rather than global prominence. The dominance of English was backed by two major technological shifts: first the Industrial Revolution which spread from Britain, and then the Internet which spread from the USA. For how long have we been able to send messages around the world at effectively zero cost? It's difficult to imagine the world before then.

Do you think there will be a new revolution favoring another language, or will it just be a gradual power shift this time?

[Fraggle Rocker]

Although the other languages had local rather than global prominence.True, but those localities were rather large. Aramaic covered all of "Western" civilization at first, and continued to be the lingua franca of western Asia through the Greek, Roman, Arab and Ottoman hegemonies. When the Middle East broke off from Western civilization, Latin was the language of government, scholarship and religion for Europe until quite recently.

Yes there were several other civilizations but despite their impressive cultures which were in some ways arguably superior, they lagged behind Europe in the key areas of scientific and economic progress. The Greco-Roman model and the ever-growing region it defines came to dominate world civilization. So despite the billions of people who speak Chinese, Hindi and Arabic, English for better or worse is the world's most important language, like Latin and Greek before it.The dominance of English was backed by two major technological shifts: first the Industrial Revolution which spread from Britain, and then the Internet which spread from the USA.Which is an offshoot of Britain. We regard King Arthur, Shakespeare, Robin Hood and the Beatles as "our culture" and until the end of time Americans will always die to protect England.For how long have we been able to send messages around the world at effectively zero cost? It's difficult to imagine the world before then.Not for us older people. :) Most of my Esperanto "pen pals" in the former Soviet bloc still haven't got e-mail.Do you think there will be a new revolution favoring another language, or will it just be a gradual power shift this time?One of the things you learn from history is that it's difficult to make predictions across a paradigm shift, such as the transition from the Industrial Era into the Information Age. English is rapidly becoming the world language that Esperanto aspired to be. Despite being economic powerhouses, the Chinese and Japanese people are not promoting their languages for the obvious reason that they're horrible for a computer keyboard. India is fast becoming an economic powerhouse, but linguistically it's an English colony. Latin America is proud of its languages, but it will never discard Spanish for Portuguese or vice versa, so it can't present a united front.

It's quite possible that English will continue to spread because it has so much inertia behind it. How many billions of lines of computer code--civilization's new infrastructure--are documented only in English? By the time America's hegemony fades away, its language may be the only one in which business and science can be conducted. Very much like Latin after the fall of Rome.

Or perhaps Aramaic is a better analogy because of its strange history. The Aramaeans were just one of the peoples the Assyrians conquered, but their language began to spread among the neighboring captive tribes. Eventually the Assyrians made it the official language of the empire. After their empire waned, Aramaic continued to be spoken throughout the Middle East for two thousand years, despite the comings and goings of various ethnic groups and the rise and fall of empires. Whether the people of the Middle East were ruled by Persians, Greeks, Tatars, Moghuls, Arabs, Ottomans or Britons, through sheer inertia they kept speaking Aramaic.

[hypewaders]

I'm partial to the Levantine dialect. You can download (for free) the Foreign Service Institute's LA course, including the audio portions here:

FSI Levantine Arabic (http://www.freelanguagecourses.com/language/arabic/arabic-language-courses-18/)

This is a spoken-language oriented course, that doesn't teach Arabic script (but that's relatively easy to learn). I've used it some for review, because I'd like to keep a Libnaani accent, as much as I can.

[S.A.M.]

Some more resources

A wiki open source basic phrase book (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic/Basic_Phrases)

Arabic vocabulary [comprehensive Arabic English dictionary] (http://books.google.com/books?id=7hZHFh_nVEMC&dq=vocabulary+in+arabic&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=tX_WuG-iBV&sig=h1_Ripdek6BIEKnjdvIIxu3_FsE&hl=en&ei=wBnDSdzCCN3gnQeLhMmJDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPP21,M1)


Lessons (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arabic)

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

Must say, in spite of being completely unable to decipher it. I think the Arabic script is beautiful. =)

[Fraggle Rocker]

I'm partial to the Levantine dialect.So which populations does that correspond to? I'm guessing the Lebanese and Palestinians. Neither are ethnically of Arabic origin; they're more closely related to the Jews.

[Norsefire]

So which populations does that correspond to? I'm guessing the Lebanese and Palestinians. Neither are ethnically of Arabic origin; they're more closely related to the Jews.

Levantine is Lebanon, Syria, parts of Jordan, and parts of Palestine

[mike47]

The calligraphy looks awesome?

http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/art5.jpg
What does it say here ?.

[mike47]

What does it say here ?.
No one answered my question about what this writing on the tiger means .
Does anyone know ?. :D: .

[S.A.M.]

If you find out what the tiger says, would you also find out what this crane says:

http://www.trap17.com/forums/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.photobucket.com%2 Falbums%2Fy115%2FSteelraptor3%2Farcal3.jpg


And this girl:

http://alkaspace.com/usr/1724/33.jpg

And this hawk

http://alkaspace.com/usr/1724/27.jpg

[mike47]

I think this is not Arabic and then what do I really know ?!.....Loool .

[S.A.M.]

In the girls picture I can read the little one by the side, its bismillahi rahmani rahim

[mike47]

In the girls picture I can read the little one by the side, its bismillahi rahmani rahim
I am so curious about the tiger because I am a tiger too....:D .

[S.A.M.]

Ah in that case here is one more for you:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1717/1584/400/Hassan%20Musa%20a.png

And no, I don't know what that says either. Or if its Arabic or Persian.

My absolute favourite:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1717/1584/400/Hassan%20Musa%20f.png

[mike47]

Ah in that case here is one more for you:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1717/1584/400/Hassan%20Musa%20a.png

And no, I don't know what that says either. Or if its Arabic or Persian.

My absolute favourite:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1717/1584/400/Hassan%20Musa%20f.png
I need a real microscope to see that....I am half blind already....:D .

[fofo]

hello for everyone

i am an arabian person

i would like to learn more about the english language because my studying is based on it .

as well as i will help you for learning arabic language if you would :)

my regards ,