EYE-rock? EE-rock? ...

[Baron Max]

Iraq ....that nation over yonder that the news media seems to focus on.

How do you prounounce it?

EYE-rock?
EYE-rack?
EE-rock?
EE-rack?
EAR-rock?
EAR-rack?

And while we're on the subject, who the fuck decides how to pronounce some nation's name, etc? Is there some group of English experts who provide such things for us?

Baron Max

[draqon]

crap-under-a-rock

[S.A.M.]

Iraq ....that nation over yonder that the news media seems to focus on.

How do you prounounce it?

EYE-rock?
EYE-rack?
EE-rock?
EE-rack?
EAR-rock?
EAR-rack?

And while we're on the subject, who the fuck decides how to pronounce some nation's name, etc? Is there some group of English experts who provide such things for us?

Baron Max

According to the way it is spelt in Arabic, it is Ee-Raak.

Though Americans call it Eye-Rock.

[Kunax]

i-rak, i-rahk

[Athelwulf]

Iraq ....that nation over yonder that the news media seems to focus on.

How do you prounounce it?

I say something like ih-RACK. For those who understand IPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA), I say [ɪ.ˈræk].

EYE-rock?
EYE-rack?
EE-rock?
EE-rack?
EAR-rock?
EAR-rack?

Where did you get most of those? Who says "I rock"? I only ever hear ih-RACK, ih-ROCK, and eye-RACK.

And while we're on the subject, who the fuck decides how to pronounce some nation's name, etc? Is there some group of English experts who provide such things for us?

There is no official authority on the English language in the same way there is for other languages, as far as I know. A large part of our rules concerning pronunciation, grammar, etc., are descriptions of the natural, living language rather than a set of predetermined laws dictating the language. Basically, whatever happens to catch on.

According to the way it is spelt in Arabic, it is Ee-Raak.

As far as I can determine, that would be:

عراق

For people who are interested.

Note to self: Learn Arabic writing.

Though Americans call it Eye-Rock.

Maybe Bush does. :(

[spuriousmonkey]

The pronounciation of geographical location is entirely dependent on the language in question.

Americans pronounce Iraq differently than Dutch people, unless Dutch people speak English. Well, then it still depends on whether they are trying to speak American-English or English.

Interestingly you can actually see the pronounciation in online dictionaries, or even hear it if you manage to find the right button to click.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/iraq

[S.A.M.]

As far as I can determine, that would be:

عراق

For people who are interested.

Note to self: Learn Arabic writing.

(
You're right, but the proper convention in Arabic is to say "The Iraq"

http://borderdogs.com/images/1/productimages/0535.jpg

[Athelwulf]

Yeah, I guess I should've left that on. I copied it from the title of the Arabic article on Iraq at Wikipedia, but I thought to myself "We're talking about 'Iraq', not 'al-Iraq' ".

[The Devil Inside]

in flemish, it is "eee-rock" (phonetically in english).

i pronounce it "ih-rack"...but i have a great lakes american accent. so there you go.

[Absane]

i pronounce it "ih-rack"...but i have a great lakes american accent. so there you go.

Pfft... Americans.

[Killjoy]

Interestingly you can actually see the pronounciation in online dictionaries, or even hear it if you manage to find the right button to click.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/iraq

#%$@*&! sumbitches wanted some sort of log-in to hear the pronunciations - or at least that's what I got when I clicked on the button shaped like wee stylized "sound waves" emanating from an equally wee speaker.

Any time I have heard news reports featuring anyone from Iraq who mentioned the name of the place, they pronounced it ee-rock, with a slight sort of "roll" to the letter "R" sometimes heard in German or Slavic use.
I'm not sure if this is the be-all end-all way it's supposed to sound, but for some reason I feel quite annoyed when I hear a fellow American pronounce it eye-wrack. It just sounds stupid.
Speaking of stupid - I notice a lot of US senators & representatives say eye-wrack...
:rolleyes:

[Nikelodeon]

I-wreck

[S.A.M.]

I-wreck

I-ran

[John Connellan]

Wiktionary gives the following pronunciations:


ɪrɑːk
ɪræk


Interestingly, it doesn't give the American pronunciations of

eɪ rɑːk or eɪ ræk

[Fraggle Rocker]

You're right, but the proper convention in Arabic is to say "The Iraq."So it's al Iraq? The way we say "the Ukraine" and Brits say "the Argentine"?

Is iraq a word in Arabic with a specific meaning? We're taught that the concept of "nations" with names like Iraq, Jordan and Syria is a fiction perpetrated by British colonial administrators, since the Arabs were a tribal people without nations.

If you think English naming conventions for countries are chaotic, that's nothing compared to our way of naming their people.

Argentina - Argentine
Azerbaijan - Azeri
China - Chinese
Cyprus - Cypriot
Denmark - Danish
France - French
Germany - German
Greece - Greek
Iraq - Iraqi
Norway - Norwegian
Peru - Peruvian
Poland - Polish
Spain - Spanish
Switzerland - Swiss
Thailand - Thai
Turkey - Turkish

And, of course: Holland - Dutch.

[S.A.M.]

So it's al Iraq? The way we say "the Ukraine" and Brits say "the Argentine"?

Is iraq a word in Arabic with a specific meaning? We're taught that the concept of "nations" with names like Iraq, Jordan and Syria is a fiction perpetrated by British colonial administrators, since the Arabs were a tribal people without nations.


The name has its roots in history.

There are several suggestions for the origin of the name of Iraq; - one dates back to the Sumerian city of Uruk (or Erech). Another suggestion is that Iraq comes from the Aramaic language, meaning "the land along the banks of the rivers." Another suggestion is Iraq is a reference to the root of a palm tree, as they are numerous in the country.

Under the Persian Sassanid dynasty, there was a region called "Erak Arabi" referring to part of the south western region of the Persian Empire, which now is part of southern Iraq. Al-Iraq was the name used by the Arabs themselves for the land since the 6th century.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

And while we're on the subject, who the fuck decides how to pronounce some nation's name, etc? Is there some group of English experts who provide such things for us?

Baron Max

The Iraqis in this case, wouldn't you say?

Whoever gets to be the authority, it certainly won't be the yanks.

"Congradulations" on being the country least likely to pronounce anything properly.

[draqon]

yeah well try naming PeoPle from Rossija <---thats the name of the country (and not Russia).

[Fraggle Rocker]

The Iraqis in this case, wouldn't you say?The problem with that is that langagues have different phonetic structures. We dutifully spell "Iraq" with a Q because that's how we transliterate that letter in the Arabic alphabet, but we pronounce it as a K. In reality it's a glottal stop, like the T in a Cockney pronunciation of glass of wa'er. Very few languages have that sound. A great many don't have the H in Hollands and Helleniki or the SH in English and Schweiz. Most anglophones don't pronounce the CH in "Czech" correctly (and we even have to spell it in Polish because we don't have the Czech diacritical marks).Whoever gets to be the authority, it certainly won't be the yanks.The speech of educated Americans is as proper phonetically as that of educated Britons and these days the differences are minor. I've never heard anyone mangle foreign languages like the Brits: the people who make two syllables out of Juan, with an English affricate J and the accent on the U. And Latin? You've been speaking Latin since the Romans were there to teach it personally and you still can't get the vowels right!"Congradulations" on being the country least likely to pronounce anything properly.We say "congrachoolations." You guys can't even hear the phonemes correctly in another dialect of your own language, and you insist that you can do it in a foreign tongue? :)

It's the phonetic impoverishment of a language that makes it difficult for its speakers to render foreign words. A combination of a limited number of phonemes with stifling rules on how they can be put together. The Japanese take the prize for that: every consonant must be followed by a vowel so "McDonalds" comes out as Makudonarudo. Chinese is almost as bad but at least they get the fun of choosing from among the eleven kanji for each syllable and coming up with some amusing phrases for foreign names. America is mei3 guo2, "beautiful country."yeah well try naming PeoPle from Rossija <---thats the name of the country (and not Russia).Actually in America we did that during the Cold War. It was pretty common to hear them referred to as Rooskies, which is a fairly faithful rendition of their own name for themselves.

Don't forget that the O in Rossiya is unaccented so it's not pronounced as an O. It's a [can't get the IPA symbols to display but it's the upside-down V] so the name of the country is ruh-SEE-ya in Russian. We have that sound in English with our unusually rich set of vowels, but most languages don't.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

We say "congrachoolations." You guys can't even hear the phonemes correctly in another dialect of your own language, and you insist that you can do it in a foreign tongue? :)

No, almost every american I have ever heard pronounce the word says "congradulations". I have also seen it spelled that way many times by americans. If you are nice I might concede that it's more like "congra-jew-lations".

You're not even consistent. "Toob" is how you pronounce "tube" "nookleer" is how you pronounce "nuclear", but what about "music" or "amused"? What about "Congratulations" even?

Other gems include:

"Sug-jestion".
"Missle".
"Sick lick rate"
"Cha see" (i.e car chassis)

"nook-yoo-lar missle" is my favourite.

Also a whole host of misspellings based on the american's tendency to pronounce T as D such as "rice patties", "pedal to the medal", "retarted" and last but not least, "studder".

[Facial]

I pronounce it Ear-rock.

[Fraggle Rocker]

No, almost every american I have ever heard pronounce the word says "congradulations".Hmm. Must be my old Chicago accent, like app-ricot and rooff. I notice most Americans don't pronounce a closed AI in "right" and an open AI in "ride" like my family, either.I have also seen it spelled that way many times by americans. If you are nice I might concede that it's more like "congra-jew-lations". You're not even consistent. "Toob" is how you pronounce "tube" "nookleer" is how you pronounce "nuclear", but what about "music" or "amused"? What about "Congratulations" even?There is a consistency. We pronounce accented long U as OO only after the dentals: tube, duty, sue, nuclear. After the other consonant series, it's YOO: puny, future, muse, cube. After the dentals when unaccented, we retained the YOO, but that caused affricative palatalization of the consonant: educate (joo), usual (zhoo), virtue (choo), annual (well we're stuck with nyoo on that one but we do say it that way). We don't say edyoocate and virtyoo the way you do.

Palatalization is a powerful force in phonetic evolution. Indeed, it's the reason that half of the Indo-European languages are called the "Satem" branch: the K in kmtom for "hundred" became S in all of them, e.g. Sanskrit satem and Russian sto. Yet... look what's happened to that K in the "Kentum" branch. The K in Latin centum itself has palatialized into S in French and Portuguese, CH in Italian and Romanian, TH in Spanish. It's still K in Greek hekaton, but Grimm's Law turned it into H in proto-Germanic, e.g. English hundred. Does anyone here speak Gaelic?

Palatalization is rampant in the Slavic languages; Russian and Croatian have whole series of extra letters in their alphabet to accommodate it. Czech kde, "where," is Russian gdie and even more palatalized in Polish gdzie.

We can see the equally rampant palatalization in Mandarin alongside familiar Cantonese names: Bei Jing for Be King and Xiang Geng for Hong Gong. We can also see the typical British mangling of a foreign language's sounds in your Wade-Giles transliteration system, e.g. Peking and Hong Kong. :)

We also see it in Japanese, where the spots in the syllabaries for TI, DI, SI and ZI are occupied by CHI, JI, SHI and ZHI.Other gems include: "Sug-jestion".That's just back-formation from spelling, a phenomenon of the age of literacy: a population showing off their ability to read. Like the C in "arctic," which was already silent when we got the word from the French, and the T in "often," which is a lexicographer's error.

I hear the same thing from Spanish language radio announcers: only people who can read Spanish pronounce the C in octavo or the P in optimo. Those sounds vanished around the same time they did in Italian, but the Italians normalized their spelling. Mexican-Americans who have American education and English phonetics in their heads are even starting to differentiate between Spanish V and B, which is completely bogus."Missle".More back-formation. If it's fyoo-TILL-ity then it must be FYOO-till, so it must also be MISS-ill. That trend has not completed, we still say textile and percentile.
"Cha see" (i.e car chassis)How do you say it? sha-SEE? You guys do treat French better than any other foreign language, I guess you're still kissing up to the occupying forces. ;)"nook-yoo-lar".Oh come on. That's one illiterate redneck! He can't say three words without getting one of them wrong. I think everyone else in America now pronounces "nuclear" correctly to avoid sounding like Bush. At least he likes your music: He thought the punch line to "Fool me once, shame on you" was "Won't get fooled again."Also a whole host of misspellings based on the american's tendency to pronounce T as D such as "rice patties", "pedal to the medal", "retarted" and last but not least, "studder".We don't pronounce it as D. We pronounce both intervocalic T and D as a flapped R, the way some of you say "very." I saw a TV show about the training of telephone help desk people in India to speak American English instead of the British English they're all taught. It seemed to me that the flapped T and D was one of the hardest things for them. I guess R is not flapped in the Indic languages?

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

How do you say it? sha-SEE? You guys do treat French better than any other foreign language, I guess you're still kissing up to the occupying forces.

Maybe if I was english....

We don't pronounce it as D. We pronounce both intervocalic T and D as a flapped R

Say "petal" out loud....then say "pedal". Tell me they don't sound the same in your american accent.

You can say anything you want, but the people who get to tell you how to speak english will always be the english. If you don't like it, make up your own language....or is that what you guys are already doing, at a very, very slow pace? Maybe it's a case of, well, shit, we stole everyone's place names and pronounce our own ones wrong anyway (new orleans, detroit, st. louis to name a few) so let's steal someone's language and fuck that up too?

[Genji]

In the general public I say it like everyone else in these parts: Eye-Rack.
In the company of those with brains I say :Ear-Rock.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Maybe if I was english....I keep forgetting you're not really English or German. :)Say "petal" out loud....then say "pedal". Tell me they don't sound the same in your american accent.Yes, that's my point, they are the same sound. But that sound is not a D. I can't input the IPA but it's a flapped R as in most non-Germanic European languages. Listen to a Spaniard say "caro" and then listen to an American say "cotto" (the salami, but it's really hard to find two matching words, sorry). They sound the same. Take it from those American dialect trainers in Bangalore, this is not a T or a D and it's not easy for speakers of British English to emulate. Apparently not even easy to hear accurately but get a native speaker of Italian, Spanish, Romanian or a Slavic language to say his R and you'll start to identify the sound. Again, does anybody know how they pronounce R in Gaelic? Schleeb, you live in Scotland where everybody speaks it, right? :)You can say anything you want, but the people who get to tell you how to speak english will always be the english. If you don't like it, make up your own language....or is that what you guys are already doing, at a very, very slow pace?Actually some of our most authoritative dictionaries present themselves as "dictionaries of the American language."Maybe it's a case of, well, shit, we stole everyone's place names and pronounce our own ones wrong anyway (new orleans, detroit, st. louis to name a few) so let's steal someone's language and fuck that up too?The people who established English in America did not steal it from you: they were Englishmen and women! The differences between our dialects are relatively minor as dialects go. Many linguists call the "Italian" of Sicily a distinct language. The Arabic of Egypt and the Arabic of Iraq create quite a few misunderstandings. The Mandarin of Bei Jing and the Mandarin of Si Chuan come close to failing the intercomprehensibility test.

We may mangle your language but we all still love England. (Sorry about Scotland, we just love your whiskey.) King Arthur, Robin Hood, and Shakespeare's plays are our myths too. We'll be there for you the next time the Germans get uppity because this world would not be the same without England, quaint pronunciation and all.

God save the Queen.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

LOL! Whiskey is Irish! I think you meant Whisky ;)

Just remember....england, Scotland, two different countries.

Schleeb, you live in Scotland where everybody speaks it, right?

No one speaks Gaelic here because of some Polish upstart and a few silly highlanders causing trouble. The only people that speak it now live on little islands around Scotland, but we still have to endure an entire night on TV every week dedicated to Gaelic programming :(

[Fraggle Rocker]

LOL! Whiskey is Irish! I think you meant Whisky.Really? I don't drink the stuff, I'm a Southern Comfort man. You're saying that if I look closely at the label on a bottle of Cutty Sark it will say "Scotch Whisky"?Just remember....england, Scotland, two different countries.It's hard to keep that straight since it is only one united "kingdom."No one speaks Gaelic here because of some Polish upstart and a few silly Highlanders causing trouble.Sorry, we Americans know nothing of British history north of that border except "MacBeth" and "Brigadoon." "Highlander" was a fabulous TV show starring Adrian Paul and who is the Polish upstart?The only people that speak it now live on little islands around Scotland, but we still have to endure an entire night on TV every week dedicated to Gaelic programming I should think that would be fun for somebody who hangs out on the Linguistics forum. ;) I enjoy listening to foreign languages although it would be nice to know what they are sometimes. Anyway check how they pronounce their R. I have this perhaps apocryphal memory of Scotsmen furiously trrrrilling your R like Spaniards, especially when you're trying to make a point

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Really? I don't drink the stuff, I'm a Southern Comfort man. You're saying that if I look closely at the label on a bottle of Cutty Sark it will say "Scotch Whisky"?

The stuff we make here in Scotland says "Whisky".

and who is the Polish upstart?

Bonny Prince Charlie. Led the Jacobite rebellion in 1745.

I have this perhaps apocryphal memory of Scotsmen furiously trrrrilling your R like Spaniards, especially when you're trying to make a point

Yeah, my parents do that. They also do some weird things like add an extra syllable into words like "girl" and "world" so you get "gerrrrrul" and "wurrrrruld". Annoys the hell out of me.

[John Connellan]

it is obviously an effect of Gaelic as in the Irish accent, people also add vowels but more like:

Gerril and Worild.

Also, I believe that traditional Gaelic speakers roll their tongues for the 'r' sound.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

BTW we pronounce "Gaelic" differently in Scotland too. Instead of "gay lick" (lol) we say "gah-lick", like garlic without the "r". This refers to the Scottish version of Gaelic which is different from the Irish version.

Just a little fact for you stinking foreigners.

[The Devil Inside]

stinking foreigners.

whats that all about?

[Athelwulf]

You can say anything you want, but the people who get to tell you how to speak english will always be the english.

That's rich considering our English is closer to Shakespeare's than that of the British Isles. ;)

Are you saying we shouldn't pronounce our Rs except in special cases (compare "your ball" and "your apple"), and should skip entire syllables (compare American and British versions of "literally")?

[Free_Matt_417]

Someone tell me why Americans cant spell?

Mom

Color

Thats not English.

[Prince_James]

As far as I am aware, there is a degree of permissibility in one's choice of pronounciation, but the closest to native would be:

Ee-rock.

When in doubt, use the Romantic i.

[Athelwulf]

Someone tell me why Americans cant spell?

Mom

Color

Thats not English.

I don't pronounce "mom" with an "uh" sound. I say "ah". Maahhhm. It's a shortening of "mama". It rhymes with "palm" for me. In IPA, it's [mɑm]. But according to Wikipedia, Australian English doesn't have [ɑ], except as the first vowel in the diphthong [ɑe] in such words as "rice" and "bite". But I'm sure you know how we talk.

And "colour" looks like kuh-LOOR to me, like it would be if read as a French word.

When in doubt, use the Romantic i.

Softly trilling your R is also romantic. It woos the ladies quite nicely.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Are you saying we should skip entire syllables (compare American and British versions of "literally")?We do the same thing, with different syllables in different words. Choc'late, int'rest. We say lab'ratory instead of laborat'ry.

The unaccented schwa disappears, that's a powerful force in phonetic change. German Wie geht's? Russian molodoj, gorod vs. Czech mlady, hrad.

Or how about just the entire French dictionary? :)

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

That's rich considering our English is closer to Shakespeare's than that of the British Isles. ;)

Are you saying we shouldn't pronounce our Rs except in special cases (compare "your ball" and "your apple"), and should skip entire syllables (compare American and British versions of "literally")?

No, I'm just saying if anyone is "right" it's the english and any foreigner who claims their version is "more correct" than the "official" version of english (naturally the one spoken by the english) is a fucking idiot. The language is called "english". Don't even think about mentioning "american english".

"Skipping syllables" (I don't see how skipping the t shortens the syllables in the word....still 4) by contracting the word to "li'erally" is less of a crime against the language than changing a t to a d to make "liderally" (no matter what Fraggle Rocker said about all this flapped r stuff, it's still fundamentally changing the word) because think about it....couldn't, shouldn't, wouldn't does the same thing. It's just a contraction.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

whats that all about?

It's just me being facetious.

[Athelwulf]

No, I'm just saying if anyone is "right" it's the english and any foreigner who claims their version is "more correct" than the "official" version of english (naturally the one spoken by the english) is a fucking idiot. The language is called "english".

I hope you realize that there's no "right" English, both from a linguistic standpoint and from an official one. Linguistically, British English and American English, as well as all the other Englishes, are just dialects of one English language. None can claim they speak the true English language, even the English, especially considering that the English language is not regulated by any language authority in the way other languages are. There is no English equivalent to the Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española.

Also, are we not Englishmen too? Remember, they did help colonize this part of the world.

Don't even think about mentioning "american english".

Too late. :p

"Skipping syllables" (I don't see how skipping the t shortens the syllables in the word....still 4)

:bugeye:

Do you not know the English you claim is superior? If you did, you'd know I was talking about "LITCH-ruh-lee". Not this mutilated "LIH-'er-uh-lee" you're talking about.

[Oxygen]

I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans. I was watching this one show on BBC America and the actor playing a Texan was doing a fine job. He was a stereotypical wealthy landowner and had the swagger down pat. The only thing that threw the image off was his pronunciation of the word 'ceremony'. He pronounced it "SIR-munee" where just about any American would have said "SAIR-uh-moh-nee".

I really don't have a problem with accents. I grew up around people from various nations, and while working at a tourist spot, the Winchester Mystery House, was tapped to help a couple of foreign travellers who were wanting to know how to get to the "hoos wit da mommies". I wasn't sure what country they were from, but it took only a few seconds for me to figure out they were asking for the "house with the mummies", better known to us as the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum.

I have but one question for those who are fluent in non-English languages; why do they put genders on inaminate objects? I'm curious what the origins of that are.

(PS: I prounce it uh-RAK and uh-RAN. Mother-in-law calls China "Chiner" but pronounces Russia, Dakota, and other -a names without the "er" sound. I have no idea why China is singled out in her dialect. She's from upstate New York, which she sometimes calls "New York", sometimes "New Yowuk", but has never called it "New Yahk". I'm from California, which, according to an old friend from Virginia, is the only place he's heard people prounce words without an accent. ???)

[Fraggle Rocker]

I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans.Yes, they do seem to have a very hard time mastering our vowels. We pronounce almost every one differently. Their "call" sounds like our "coal," except it's not a diphthong. To compensate they tend to pick a regional dialect (such as the Texan you mention) and exaggerate it without really getting it quite right, so it doesn't even sound like us Yankees when we imitate Southerners. Even the Aussie and Canadian faux-country/western singers do better than that. ^_^ Monty Python liked to do American sports jock dialect and it sounded pretty silly coming from a business executive. For American women, they always picked Dustin Hoffman's "Tootsie," a case study in a man mastering feminine patterns and only coming up with a parody of them. I wonder if our actors sound just as silly to them when they try to do British accents.I really don't have a problem with accents. I grew up around people from various nations.That's our secret, the Melting Pot. I suspect it's only the last couple of generations of British people who have everyday contact with peers who speak with foreign accents. We hear phonemes that aren't part of our paradigm all the time and our brains absorb them. So when we want to pronounce one it's already in there and only our vocal apparatus has to adapt.I have but one question for those who are fluent in non-English languages; why do they put genders on inaminate objects? I'm curious what the origins of that are.It's really complicated and I don't fully understand it. But if you understand that biological sex is only a subset of grammatical gender, you'll be on your way to making peace with it. Remember that Indo-European also had a neuter gender, which survived into Latin, Greek, proto-Germanic, and old Slavonic (and I don't really know about the other nodes on the family tree like Sanskrit and proto-Celtic). German, Modern Greek, the Slavic languages and Romanian (unique among the Romance languages because of the influence from Slavonic) still have it (and I don't know about the Indo-Iranian, Celtic, Baltic, Albanian, Armenian, etc. descendants). When you realize that there are three grammatical genders, it puts the biological aspect into a better perspective. I suppose it was natural for our Mesolithic ancestors to assign male and female animals consistently to two of those three genders but I'm unaware of any theories as to how or why it happened in that particular way. BTW gender is by no means universal among non-Indo-European languages. And in addtion to English, I believe the Scandinavian languages have lost it and perhaps for the most part even Dutch, leaving German and its cousin Yiddish alone in our branch of the family in their retention of it.(PS: I prounce it uh-RAK and uh-RAN.That's just a schwa, the indistinct neutral vowel into which unaccented vowels degenerate in many languages including German and French. It's the name of a Hebrew vowel which has become silent in the modern language (the nearly universal ultimate fate of the schwa), which was resurrected artificially from the liturgical pronunciation of many generations of Jews whose primary language was something else.Mother-in-law calls China "Chiner" but pronounces Russia, Dakota, and other -a names without the "er" sound. I have no idea why China is singled out in her dialect.That's a northeastern American dialect pronunciation. Most of us speak an idiolect comprised of bits and pieces of the dialects we've been exposed to. My wife lived with a British girl in her late teens and 35 years later she still talks about "hoovering" the carpet instead of "vacuuming" it. Americans think that's a rather cute Britishism so that has reinforced her unconscious tendency to hang onto it.I'm from California, which, according to an old friend from Virginia, is the only place he's heard people prounce words without an accent. ???)I wasn't born there but I lived there since my freshman year in college. With my combination of Chicago and Arizona speech I did not notice any "accent" in L.A. but I now notice Chicago and Arizona dialect pronunciation so I obviously adopted it. I have the same experience. No matter where I go in the U.S., no one has ever commented on my accent. A good part of the reason for that, of course, is Hollywood. Newscasters in Boston, Newark, Atlanta and Dallas sound more like the Angeleños in their network offices every day (curiously not like the equally influential-in-other-matters Manhattanites) so the people in those cities are accustomed to hearing it. The same thing is happening on a much larger canvas in hispanophonic Latin America. As the casts of TV shows produced in every country are increasingly multinational, they have standardized on the speech of Mexico as "neutral." They even send them to dialect schools so that soap opera families don't sound like Papá is Argentine but los niños are somehow from Honduras and Venezuela.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

I hope you realize that there's no "right" English, both from a linguistic standpoint and from an official one. Linguistically, British English and American English, as well as all the other Englishes, are just dialects of one English language. None can claim they speak the true English language, even the English, especially considering that the English language is not regulated by any language authority in the way other languages are. There is no English equivalent to the Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española.

Also, are we not Englishmen too? Remember, they did help colonize this part of the world.



No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.




Do you not know the English you claim is superior? If you did, you'd know I was talking about "LITCH-ruh-lee". Not this mutilated "LIH-'er-uh-lee" you're talking about.

Who says "litchrulee"? People in Britain mostly use the glottle stop when pronouncing that word. I have never heard anyone say "lichrulee".

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans. I was watching this one show on BBC America and the actor playing a Texan was doing a fine job. He was a stereotypical wealthy landowner and had the swagger down pat. The only thing that threw the image off was his pronunciation of the word 'ceremony'. He pronounced it "SIR-munee" where just about any American would have said "SAIR-uh-moh-nee".


Whatever he said I'm sure it was better than Keanu Reeves in Dracula....

[S.A.M.]

I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans.

Ha! Reminds me of this:

"Why should the people follow you?" "Because, unlike some other Robin Hoods, I speak with an English accent."
- Men in Tights (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Robin-Hood-Tights-Cary-Elwes/dp/B00004U0MG)

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Grrrr, Kevin Costner :mad:

[S.A.M.]

Grrrr, Kevin Costner :mad:

His flat tones and unchanging visage throughout the movie were so inspirational!:p

[Fraggle Rocker]

Whatever he said I'm sure it was better than Keanu Reeves in Dracula....No one ever played the role like George Hamilton in "Love at First Bite." Communist Party bureaucrats, finally succeeding where generations of peasants with torches and pitchforks had failed, came to nationalize his castle.

Susan St. James: "Want to come up to my place? I've got a bottle of really nice wine from Bordeaux, and some pretty good shit from Colombia."

George Hamilton, with his best faux-Romanian accent: "I do not drrrink... vine."

Pause.

"And I do not smoke... shit."

[Oxygen]

I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man. Lousy senior citizens! :D

[Athelwulf]

No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.

Says who? You? The guy who's not English? A non-English guy has the authority to say who's speaking English and who isn't?

Who says "litchrulee"?

Some British people.

People in Britain mostly use the glottle stop when pronouncing that word. I have never heard anyone say "lichrulee".

Then you're listening to the wrong people. I hear it all the time. Maybe you're only hearing some local dialect and not, you know, "the" English language you claim is so correct.

Which reminds me: What of Cockney accents? And Yorkshire? Cumbrian? Lancashire? Geordie? After all, they're all English too. Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man. Lousy senior citizens! :D

In the "UK" a "geezer" is slang for a man. As in "That geezer's 'avin a larf."

Do you all still pronounce "buoy" as "boo-ey"?

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Says who? You? The guy who's not English? A non-English guy has the authority to say who's speaking English and who isn't?

No, the english do. Please try to keep up.



Some British people.

Not as far as I've heard, and, well, I live there.

Then you're listening to the wrong people. I hear it all the time. Maybe you're only hearing some local dialect and not, you know, "the" English language you claim is so correct.

I live here. I am sure my exposure to British dialects is a lot higher than yours.

Which reminds me: What of Cockney accents? And Yorkshire? Cumbrian? Lancashire? Geordie? After all, they're all English too. Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?

I'm talking about the people who write the dictionaries. It's fairly well acknowledged that anyone with a "local" dialect, or even an "accent" in most cases (and yes, that includes yank accents) can't speak their own language properly. I know a Brazilian who writes english better than most english people can, but that doesn't change anything.

[Athelwulf]

No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.

I wanna add: Do you think you're more authoritative, or know more, than Wikipedia? Because I've just done some reading, and this is what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Dialects_and_regional_varieties

English is a pluricentric language, without a central language authority like France's Académie française; and although no variety is clearly considered the only standard, there are a number of accents considered as more formal, such as Received Pronunciation in Britain or, formerly, the upper-class Bostonian dialect in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluricentric_language

A pluricentric language is a language with several standard versions. This situation usually arises when language and the national identity of its native speakers do not coincide.

[...]

For example, English is a pluricentric language, with marked differences in pronunciation and spelling between the United Kingdom and the United States, and a variety of accents of those and other English-speaking countries. It is usually considered a symmetric case of a pluricentric language, because no variety clearly dominates culturally. Statistically, however, American English speakers constitute more than 70% of native English speakers, with British English in second place at 16% and other varieties having less than 5% each.

[Athelwulf]

No, the english do. Please try to keep up.

I've never heard an authority based in England say that their variety of English is more right than ours. This was my point. You're falling behind, not I. Care to point me to someone who has indeed said this?

I live here. I am sure my exposure to British dialects is a lot higher than yours.

And this is why I don't believe you when you say no one says "lit'rally".

I'm talking about the people who write the dictionaries.

http://www.m-w.com/
http://www.answers.com/
http://dictionary.reference.com/

You mean dictionaries like these?

Also, Merriam Webster lists /'li-tr&-lE/ as a variant pronunciation of "literally". Count the syllables.

It's fairly well acknowledged that anyone with a "local" dialect, or even an "accent" in most cases (and yes, that includes yank accents) can't speak their own language properly.

Says who? Care to show me? Or is this just you talking?

I know a Brazilian who writes english better than most english people can, but that doesn't change anything.

That's also irrelevant.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

I wanna add: Do you think you're more authoritative, or know more, than Wikipedia? Because I've just done some reading, and this is what I found:

What's the language called again? Is it called "anyoneglish"?

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

And this is why I don't believe you when you say no one says "lit'rally".

I said no one says "lichrully" which is what you were talking about.



You mean dictionaries like these?

We were discussing within Britain or england, can't remember which. Those are all just yank propaganda. Trying to make the world spell and pronounce everything wrong, tsk tsk.

Also, Merriam Webster lists /'li-tr&-lE/ as a variant pronunciation of "literally". Count the syllables.

Uh huh....where does it mention "lichrully"?



Anyway back to that other question, how do you pronounce "buoy"? What about "aluminium"?

[Athelwulf]

Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please? :(

What's the language called again? Is it called "anyoneglish"?

This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language. You're just repeating the same old false statements and pretending that they logically refute my arguments. Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.

I said no one says "lichrully" which is what you were talking about.

No, you said that no one reduces "literally" to three syllables, which I was able to prove false.

Also, that is "lichrully".

The T shown in that pronunciation is what linguists call a broad transcription of the pronunciation of the corresponding sound in the word. A "t" sound is perceived by many people, and for all intents and purposes it's only necessary to write the sound as T, but the real sound is much more like "ch", just like in "train". Say "train" slowly and notice you're really saying "chrain". Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.

We were discussing within Britain or england, can't remember which.

I wasn't. And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.

Those are all just yank propaganda. Trying to make the world spell and pronounce everything wrong, tsk tsk.

You said "the people who write the dictionaries". The US has people writing dictionaries just like the UK has.

Uh huh....where does it mention "lichrully"?

You just read it. And the "ch" is represented as a T for reasons I stated earlier in this post.

Anyway back to that other question, how do you pronounce "buoy"? What about "aluminium"?

Guess what: You're getting into territory where you could actually make a reasonable argument. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Present-day_spelling) of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I. It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.

I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".

I wonder what you think of what one could call a triumph for Americans: the spelling of "sulfur", an American variant, being accepted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur#Spelling) by the IUPAC as the official spelling. The Royal Society of Chemistry, a UK-based authority, has also accepted "sulfur" as the official variant. :D

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please? :(

Calling for daddy?

This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language. You're just repeating the same old false statements and pretending that they logically refute my arguments. Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.

No, the language is called english. Like I said, at least a page ago, if you want a language where you get to decide the rules, start your own. I am not english and yet I would readily admit that my actually "pronouncing" r's is anything but "official".

No, you said that no one reduces "literally" to three syllables, which I was able to prove false.

I said "I don't see how skipping the t shortens the syllables in the word....still 4" which is true. "li'erally" said slowly comes to 4 syllables. It could be heard as 3 I suppose, not all the time by any means though, definitely in the minority of times. I have still yet to hear "lichrully" though, more like "litrally" if anything.

Also, that is "lichrully".

The T shown in that pronunciation is what linguists call a broad transcription of the pronunciation of the corresponding sound in the word. A "t" sound is perceived by many people, and for all intents and purposes it's only necessary to write the sound as T, but the real sound is much more like "ch", just like in "train". Say "train" slowly and notice you're really saying "chrain". Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.

Are you seriously trying to tell me you pronounce "train" as "chrain"? I say train slowly as....train. Tr-ain. Tr-ain....yup, there it is again. Train, not chrain. Of course, you're american (or think you are), so you're bound to pronounce it wrong. There, there, don't cry.



[QUOTE]I wasn't. And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.

Yes, but those are not variants, those (if they have UK or english written after them) are the correct way. As far as I remember everyone else in the "empire" spells things the way we spell them because they know who's right. Most things are spelled correctly by everyone except americans. The canadians get a few things wrong, but at least they acknowledge the queen as their head of state, so that's one thing....and they spell "colour" etc. right so they're not all bad.



You said "the people who write the dictionaries". The US has people writing dictionaries just like the UK has.

Those aren't real dictionaries though. Like I said, propaganda. They're just the legacy of a bitter little man who couldn't spell called....Noah Webster I believe it was? Just like your penises are mutilated at birth without your consent because of a man called Harvey Kellogg, because you don't wash and you keep touching yourself.


Guess what: You're getting into territory where you could actually make a reasonable argument. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Present-day_spelling) of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I.

It is not an extra I. It is supposed to be there.

It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.

Wow....you mean THE REST OF THE ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD is actually right? Didn't think about that one.

I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".

Then obviously it was written by people who can't spell.

What about "buoy"? How do you pronounce that? Must I ask everything three times?

If you're not american, you certainly think you are.

[Oxygen]

Schleebenhorst- Here on the West Coast it's called boo-ey or bwee. I don't know about the East Coast or elsewhere, although I've heard it as "boo-ey" in several songs. As far as the word "literally" goes, for seven years I worked next door to a guy from Manchester (England) who pronounced it "lichrully" the same way we pronounce "naturally" as "nachrully". He also pronounced radio, video, and Indian as RAYjo, VIjo, and INjun.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Well I've never heard it said like that.

How do you pronounce "buoyancy"?

[Fraggle Rocker]

I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man.In the U.K. it must either mean something different or else have no slang meaning at all, since Black Sabbath's bassist Geezer Butler bore that handle on their debut album when he was in his 20s.Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?We use the term "Oxford English" over here. I don't know if it's used in the U.K. It's the upper-crust fuddy-duddy language we hear on "Upstairs Downstairs" and all those high-culture BBC shows. The term has probably been reinforced by the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) being considered the reference standard for vocabulary just about everywhere. But not spelling or pronunciation of course. They're very good about picking up American and other "foreign" slang. If that's what you mean by "Received" it probably is a minority of the populace and perhaps specifically only those with Oxford degrees. :) We have a similar phenomenon here. Women who go to "finishing schools" in the Northeast learn a faux-British pronunciation that is distinguished only by its lack of agreement with any natural dialect.In the "UK" a "geezer" is slang for a man. As in "That geezer's 'avin a larf."There ya go, Oxy.Do you all still pronounce "buoy" as "boo-ey"?You rarely hear the word on this side except as a verb, as in, "He's really buoyed up, by the kind words from his boss," and in that sense it's always pronounced like "boy."Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please?I'm not here to settle disputes as long as everyone is civil. This is a dispute that will never be settled. The old adage, "America and England are two countries divided by a common language," is the truth.This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language.You're right about that... but only in America. Surely you know enough about England to understand that over there something can be universally acknowleded as a standard without any officiating body to decree it as such. For example, "common law" really works. We don't recognize the authority of many generations of Englishmen to tell us what's right and wrong. Especially if, as in the case of linguistic usage, you're only talking about a handful of generations, and in some cases our phonetics are closer to Shakespeare's than theirs.Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.Schleeb is citing authority, by the rules of England. Those rules are so highly respected that they are even observed in Scotland! We don't respect the same authorities in the two countries so, as I said, this dispute is not resolvable.And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.I wouldn't bet money on that. The rest of the anglophone world is rather like Scotland. We're the disrespectful mavericks. We're the only ones who couldn't wait for independence to happen gradually and had to shed blood over it.You just read it. And the "ch" is represented as a T for reasons I stated earlier in this post.I haven't heard that pronunciation, but there are other words in which the rate of palatalization is faster in the U.K. than over here. After all, the reason that "injun" is a slang word for American Indians is that "India" was pronounced "Inja" by many of the early colonists. I've heard the pronunciation "Canajun" used in jest, I wonder if it's taken from actual dialect? After all, someone named the Acadians in Louisiana "Cajuns" and no contemporary American would do that.The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I. It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.It's not just spelling. The Brits pronounce it al-you-MIN-yum. We say a-LOO-mi-num. Actually, since we palatalize all of our dentals before an unaccented U (have we come full circle, back to "ejoocate"?), if we spelled it the way they do we would pronounce it similarly except for not condensing the final two vowels into a diphthong. We would say al-yuh-MIN-ee-um.I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".That's a really poor word to ignore British spelling, since it reflects an actual phonetic difference.Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.You sound like a native speaker of Mandarin. I don't know where you hear the sound pronounced that way. Notice how you hold your tongue for the T. It's the same way you hold it to say "take." It is quite different from the shape and placement for "chain." Mandarin has exaggerated fricatives/affricates so they can have two parallel sets: X J Q and SH ZH CH. The first series is palatalized to the degree of the Slavic languages, and the second is pronounced very close to the sound you are describing for TR. We usually teach it by telling people to try to say CHR. In fact, the paradigm is broken since there is no voiceless fricative but the Pin Yin romanization system spells the voiced fricative as R.Are you seriously trying to tell me you pronounce "train" as "chrain"?I don't believe any sizeable community of native speakers says it that way and it's certainly not network-TV-announcer-standard American. Everyone should listen to a native speaker of standard Mandarin (not a dialect like Sichuan) say CH and you'll hear the sound in question. I don't believe it occurs in any major dialect of American English.Those aren't real dictionaries though. Like I said, propaganda. They're just the legacy of a bitter little man who couldn't spell called....Noah Webster I believe it was? Just like your penises are mutilated at birth without your consent because of a man called Harvey Kellogg, because you don't wash and you keep touching yourself.Come on, you guys. This is not Free Thoughts or Politics. Please keep the discourse civil here. I want people who stumble into this forum from a Google hit to consider signing up and not run screaming away from a flame war. You as the proper Brit who considers yourself superior should be ashamed of yourself for being the first to hit below the belt.How do you pronounce "buoyancy"?Same way, as if the U weren't there.

[Oxygen]

I spent a bit of time in Santa Cruz, so I guess "buoy" came up a lot more often. I always heard it called a boo-ey, even by sailors. Maybe it's just Northern California? Although, as you said, while we up here call it a boo-ey, we still refer to boy-an-see, not boo-yan-see.

But now, where does THIS come from? I've heard "boil" pronounced "bile". I want to say that's from deep in Dixie, but I'm not sure.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

That's how the Queen speaks....and Tim Curry The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I think there is a term for that when in an english accent, but I can't remember it.....as in:

"You owe me twenty pines" instead of "You owe me twenty pounds".

[Athelwulf]

Schleeb is citing authority, by the rules of England.

I was trying to make the point to him that England's rules don't say that all other varieties of English are irrefutably, universally false, nor, to my knowledge, has anyone said so who had some tangible authority over the language. I understand the rules for their English basically as, "This is what we understand to be right for us", and many countries have elected to follow suit, I assume because of tradition. Basically: Their English is right for them, and our English is right for us, and neither is clearly superior in terms of authority.

You sound like a native speaker of Mandarin. I don't know where you hear the sound pronounced that way. Notice how you hold your tongue for the T. It's the same way you hold it to say "take." It is quite different from the shape and placement for "chain."

The sound is distinctly "ch"-like to me. I say this because if I focus, I can make a more "t"-like sound like in "take" before R, and it will sound very different, almost like if you had a recording of someone saying "terrain", cut out the second half of the first syllable, and connected the two remaining pieces. Now that you've said it, my tongue is placed the same way as for the "t" sound, but it's just not a pure "t" sound for me. There's a "sh" sound involved, which I think is influenced by the position my tongue has to go into for the "r" sound. I think the phrase for it is secondary articulation.

I don't believe any sizeable community of native speakers says it that way and it's certainly not network-TV-announcer-standard American. Everyone should listen to a native speaker of standard Mandarin (not a dialect like Sichuan) say CH and you'll hear the sound in question. I don't believe it occurs in any major dialect of American English.

I hear it in a lot of people, even from British people who say "lit'rally". I would get some sort of sound recording to demonstrate so you could see what I'm talking about, but I'm on dial-up.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

many countries have elected to follow suit, I assume because of tradition.

Or maybe because they realise that the english spell english words more correctly than americans?

[draqon]

The I-rack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KWYYIY4jQ

and now...


the I-ran

[Fraggle Rocker]

I hear it in a lot of people, even from British people who say "lit'rally".That makes sense. With only a schwa rather than a proper vowel separating the T from the R, the tongue slides into the R position. That is the same force that is responsible for much palatalization. In Mandarin, the Q-J-X series of palatlized dentals only occurs before I-Y-Ü. The anticipation of the vowel position brings the tongue back and changes the consonant. Bringing us full circle, once again, back to American English "congrachyulations."

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

What about...."congrajewlations"?

[Fraggle Rocker]

What about...."congrajewlations"?As I said before, I never hear people pronounce it that way in the U.S., but it's a big country. It's still the powerful, planet-wide phenomenon of palatilization.

[Genji]

As I said before, I never hear people pronounce it that way in the U.S., but it's a big country. It's still the powerful, planet-wide phenomenon of palatilization.I would say: Congradjullayshuns.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

That's exactly what I mean.

[Blue_UK]

Just an observation guys - but you're trying to discuss pronunciation with spellings such as 'Eye-rock'.

I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent!

My (good) accent: Rock = rok (the 'o' really short)
US accent: Rock = rark (with a slightly nasal arrrrrrrggh! in the middle)

I used to say 'ih - rark' (which I'm guessing is what was meant by 'EE-rock')
but now, because I love warmongering Americans so much, say 'EYE - RACK'. Sometimes with a failed Texan accent.

Oh and Schleebenhorst, I noticed that you don't like giving England a capital 'E'. Fucking petty if you ask me! I'm more Scottish than I am English, but grew up in the south - the UK is the country. Scot, Wales, Eng and N.I. are just provinces. Anyone saying otherwise should really sit down and have a drink because we're a lot more alike than some of the other nations out there!

edit: oh, I and most of the people in the south (UK) say 'litchruhllee' - which is a bit sloppy, but hey - language evolves (by itself - may I add. Yanks I am looking at you).

[Oxygen]

Now to get picky (but hopefully in a friendly way),I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent! Which US accent? There are quite a few! My friend down in the southern states say eye-RACK. I say uh-RAK, my associate (who is a native Iranian and learned English in New York) emphasizes the first syllable as a short I (as in "it") and the last syllable as ruk or run, depending on if he's talking about Iraq or Iran.

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Just an observation guys - but you're trying to discuss pronunciation with spellings such as 'Eye-rock'.

I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent!

True.

My (good) accent: Rock = rok (the 'o' really short)
US accent: Rock = rark (with a slightly nasal arrrrrrrggh! in the middle)

You just went and pronounced that in an accent too! OK, the language is called "english", but you forgot that you don't pronounce "R"s so to everyone else "rark" sounds like something a parrot would say. "Raak" or "Rahk" would be closer to what you meant, I think.


Oh and Schleebenhorst, I noticed that you don't like giving England a capital 'E'. Fucking petty if you ask me!

Muhahahaha. I wondered how long it would be before someone pointed that out. Don't worry, I do the same to "america".

I'm more Scottish than I am English, but grew up in the south - the UK is the country.

Not for much longer, I hope. The empire has gone down the toilet. I want out.

[Blue_UK]

Funnily enough I just spoke with my dad about Scottish independence (he's Scottish) and he thinks they might not bother with defence. I wonder if that would increase defence costs for the remainder of the UK? (as a proportion).

And I do pronounce 'r's. Like the 'r' in bath, glass, class...

[Zardozi]

Its Emraan. Some people here know who he is. http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8007/2006090903830501bx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Fraggle Rocker]

OK, the language is called "english", but you forgot that you don't pronounce "R"s so to everyone else "rark" sounds like something a parrot would say. "Raak" or "Rahk" would be closer to what you meant, I think.Oxford English is called a non-rhotic dialect, i.e. R after a vowel is silent. Standard American is rhotic; we pronounce them. I guess you're saying that Scotsmen do too.

We do have some non-rhotic dialects in America. Boston is the most infamous because it's actually reverse-rhotic. They pronounce "car" as IPA "ka," but then they turn around and pronounce "cola" as "kol'r." I heard a Bostonian struggling to learn Spanish once: "Éstar comídar es buénar."