Fooled you. Different kind of land grabs this time. Anyway, Sam and I have been fencing about the issues of Trojan arguments and sneaky Greeks lately; I recently posted a blurb about CAIR-Canada's er..."noble" attempt to silence an ex-terrorist speaking about the politics of hate, and since then Sam and I have been firing half-hearted shots across each other's bows as if attempting to win the argument through sheer pithiness. (I note that, as of this post, I am in the lead. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) At any rate; our issue isn't really about whether such attitudes exist in the islamic world. No - rather, it's about whether such attitudes are codified in islamic law, and society. And it has been - it is - my contention that they are, indeed, and that the cooler heads and clearer hearts of Samwise et al. (Zak may take a bow) are perhaps rarer than what is considered to be the more "radical" or "extremist" view. I think it was Seneca (?) who said that the depravity of a society may be judged by the number of laws it has - and to which I add, the way in which its laws are designed to operate: Ah, that modern rub. You don't like dhimmitude? Well, our laws are self-evidently just - it says so in this book, see? - and so you must clearly be a collaborator. And you know what happens to them. And here I thought that all islamic intolerance sprung from the existence of Israel; yet other communities besides Jewish ones must suffer, it seems. Of course, it could be argued that such a gang could be of any class, and that their preying on Christians was merely incidental. Of course, Christians already form a minority within Bethlehem - and can anyone honestly imagine the authorities tolerating a Christian gang stealing land from muslim citizens for more than five minutes? No, I thought not. This is what a bimodal standard of law and justice get you: exploitation, not "protection", except perhaps in the racketeering sense. Again: a bimodal standard of justice. And yet educated people - even on this very forum - defend sharia and mock the existence of dhimmitude. But in fact, such a cavalier attitude is easy to maintain - so long as it's not your own head in the dock. There is no equity in a system that provides "protection" through institutionalized discrimination; where rights spring not from equality before a common law, but out of the sufferance of their superiors. There is little doubt as to why the complaints of Christians in muslim Bethlehem are not being taken seriously (although I'm sure Mahmoud is going to get right on that Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ); the twin codices of sharia and dhimmitude dictate that no one is required to do so. Exploitation inevitably results. Read it all. Best, Geoff
So how are the Christians treated by Israelis in the West Bank? PS There are Christians in Palestine!?!?!?!? Where did they go?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! More: http://www.antiwar.com/orig/cook.php?articleid=10297
when will day come and all the middle east keeps to middle east? as for christians in West Bank...none blew themselves up...so they must be treated well...zionism is similar to christianity anyways... yawn...zionists...terrorists...islamofascits...Good Grace go away evil ghosts... p.s. geoffP is ur new follower/bf? what happened to outlandish?
were all people go...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ...anyways they went to Lebanon from Israel...
Not ALL people... http://www.thewitness.org/archive/mayjune2003/ateek.html An interesting aside: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7417
there is no heaven...there is no hell...they just go back to life as another human being. And Samson...bless his hair...strength did he have...
I would think the "opinion" of educated Palestinian Christians as reflected by this: is not insignificant to your OP, especially when you use a piece by KHALED ABU TOAMEH who is a mouth piece for right-wing zionists and trotted out as frequently as Walid Shoebat.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Jonathan Cook too is a freelance British journalist who stays in Israeli Arab Nazareth and is as "on the spot" as Toameh.
But, of course, it's not just the PA: it's a societal thing, a veritable "tragedy of the commons" where muslims can exploit local Christians at will - because, of course, Christians (to say nothing of Jews) are second-class citizens ("dhimmis") at best. To whom do they have recourse? They are kufr. And, frankly, relying on a PA spokesman...well. Bizarre comparisons aside, I can certainly imagine that the present-day PLO would take that position. But it is not merely that the legal system considers non-muslims as lesser beings, but that the society itself possesses the same opinion - hence, the aggression. There is no real equality, but merely some arcane and much-interpreted mumbo-jumbo basing human rights on an utterly arbitrary religious observance. And, too, the first thing on Hamas' agenda is - by their own admission - increased sharia, whatever the PA or PLO might say. Again: they seek to impose sharia. And there are clearly cases where discrimination indeed does occur - the post at the start of the thread actually indicates abuses of authority by the PA. So where does this leave Safieh? "Christians are overrepresented in the Palestinian political system and in the P.A."? On what grounds, and under what relevance? It's already been shown that PA officers abuse their authority against religious minorities; Safieh wishes us to believe that them damn dirty kufr riddle his organization? Please. Regards, Geoff
Silly me, I thought the people most affected had a right to an opinion as much as I do.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
And of course, the opinions of a right-wing Israeli Arab obviously are much more relevant than those of Palestinian Christians.
Sam is a propagandist ...giving out her/his own opinion could be detrimental to her/his job as a propagandist! If she/he continues to provide googled, bullshit opinions of others, then she/he is completely free of blame or fault. See? And she/he can go on dishing out propaganda for the people who pay her/him to do. Baron Max
More irrelevant "opinions" http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_050330israel.shtml
No, Sam, I have my opinions about lots of things, but I'm experienced enough to know that I'm not fully knowledgeable about all of those issues. But unlike some people that I know, I try not to spout them all the time, or to force them onto others. How's your job as a propagandist doin' these days? I've noticed that you've slowed down some in posting all those foolish links. Are your employers becoming worried about your methods and talents? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Baron Max
Everyone has opinions, Sam ........why do you feel qualified to make judgements about which opinions are "relevant" and which are not? Don't you think that just posting those that you feel are "relevant" tell us all a lot about you and your own opinions/thoughts on the subject? Baron Max
The question is rather whether one ought to accept the word of the PA and the PLO in the face of other testimony. Safieh represents his organization; he is not some disinterested individual a-walking down the street. Dumping him (and Toameh) into some partisan category to suit your argument does not do it justice. Best, Geoff
