CAIR, often cited as a moderate ally in the war against...well, "war on terror" seems not to be in vogue, so perhaps "War on Unfortunate Misunderstandings of Core Islamic Theology" (WUMCIT?) would be better...appears not to be so much interested in isolating and drawing attention to extremist doctrine so as to better the humanitarian instincts of islam as covering up and isolating people drawing attention to such extremist doctrine. Of course, CAIR was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, that organization of Sayyid Qutb fame, and which continues to be associated with the perspective of Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda; several of their members have in fact been arrested on basis of financial support for same. Shall we feign surprise at this new development? Now, one moment. Surely the Quran cannot be called hate speech?
Always amazing that atheists who demand evidence before belief will fall for the local snake oil salesman. Zachariah Anani makes many claims, but can he provide actual and concrete proof of what he says? Here are some of his major claims: He claims to be a former Muslim He claims that he was born into a family of Muslim clergy in Beirut He claims that his grandfather and great grandfather had been imams (religious authorities), and his family, so he claims, expected him to carry the torch. He claims that as at the age of 13 he joined one of the many military groups in Lebanon that existed in the early '70s. He claims thart he was "trained to fight and kill Jews, and to hate Christians and Americans." He claims to have killed 223 people in the name of Islam and gained points from his former militia for doing so. He claims to have shot and killed a Muslim for trying to make him get up for Fajr prayer He claims that he met a Christian missionary, had a spiritual journey and converted to Christainity He claims that his father hired assassins to kill him He claims that when he was in Lebanon he was nearly beheaded and was only saved when an army patrol came by and the Islamic gang dispersed leaving him with huge wound on his neck. He claims that as a result of that attack he nearly bled to death and was actually technically dead for 7 minutes before being revived. He claims that while he lived in Lebanon Muslim leaders called him to the local mosque and interrogated him. He claims that the imam asked intelligent questions, and Anani felt the inadequacy of his own answers. "I knew nothing about Islam, nothing about Christianity," he is quoted as saying. Despite this, he actually claims to know Islam intimately He claims that in in 1996, in order to avoid persecutions, he entered Canada as a refugee. He claims that he has been attacked numerous times for his faith as a Christian, even in Canada. He claims that in Canada, where he now lives, his house and car have been burnt, his family attacked physically as well as personal attacks on himself. He claims to meet Muslims regularly in restaurants and cafés to tell them about his faith. He also claims that Islam and Muslims have a worldwide strategy for conquest and that they are on the march. He claims that those Muslims who are nice are not really true Muslims and that all one has to do is read the Islamic doctrine to find this out. Chapter (9) of the Qur'an is nothing but a declaration of war, he says. So, what's the evidence in support?
I dunno, Sam: where's the support of any individual claim, then? Where's the evidence of your moderacy, or MPACUK's, or of anyone's? There's little doubt of CAIR's intentions. What are yours? Are you saying that there are no such people as Mr. Anani and Mr. Shoebat once were? I thought that such people did exist, except that you and I differ as to why precisely they do the things they do. The only difference between Anani and any random jerk involved in jihadism is that Anani has "reverted" and is publicly recanting his previous convictions. Again: do such radicals not exist? Is it impossible that there are, indeed, radicals? Best, Geoff
Reverted to a non-islamic faith from islam. Although frankly, he could only be a true revert if he went to atheism. How can you call him a propagandist? Are there no such people, as he claims he once was? What then is the difference? Best, Geoff
Evidence. Like I believe Taslima Nasreen, because she backs up her claims with evidence, so also Salman Rushdie. People like Anani and the ever fuzzy Ibn Warraq (supposedly born in India and brought up in Pakistan, both places I am familiar with) are too much like caricatures to be real. They project an image that conforms to and validates certain labels that only people unfamiliar with the people of a region and the religion will find believable.
By the way, considering that he is a self-confessed murderer of over 200 people, has anyone ever pressed charges against Anani? Or don't those murders count?
Those murders do indeed count, and he should be charged. But your essential problem with him is not that he did or didn't kill anyone, but that he "propagandises". I can't count or discount your claim that he seems a caricature on the basis of your nationality or experiences.
Whatever. Nought from the Greeks towards me hath sped well. So now I find that ancient proverb true, Foes' gifts are no gifts: profit bring they none. ~Sophocles
Greeks bearing gifts work only for Greeks and substituting one form of fundamentalism for another does not a conversion make.
Sam, again: such people exist. What precisely is your objection to their acting as a warning to the rest of the world? Is the Trojan argument then his or yours? Best, Geoff
