Did the Chinese reach the Americas before Columbus...?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by wet1, Mar 14, 2002.

  1. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    This link is to an article claiming that the Chinese sailed around the world and reached America 70 years before Columbus. Everybody seems to know that Columbus already had maps, and the source of the maps nows seems to be the biggest debate. The Piri Reis map that Charles Hapgood traced to a time when the Antarctic was free of ice thousands of years ago was not a complete map of the world. This article claims evidence showing the entire globe had been mapped.

    Current public opinion on the topic is what makes this article most interesting, because only 6% considered there was not enough evidence to make a serious claim on a NBC poll. Another 44% said the issue isn't worth debating, since so many people came to the Americas before Columbus. What makes this interesting is that an overwhelming majority (91%) believe that the claim that Columbus discovered America is hoogie poogie while Columbus Day remains a national holiday!

    The credibility of the history still taught in schools is at rock bottom, yet it is still publicly celebrated. The breach in credibility says more than evidence that the Chinese were in America before Columbus.

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/721582.asp

    What do you think of claims that Chinese sailors reached America before Columbus?

    * 2435 responses

    The claims should be given a serious hearing.
    47%

    There's not enough evidence to make a serious claim.
    6%

    The issue isn't worth debating, since so many people came to the Americas before Columbus.
    44%

    None of the above.
    3%


    So what are your thoughts about this?

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  3. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Vikings reached America ~520 years before Columbus
    it's a fact. the Viking leader was called Leijf Ericson(sp)

    and probably the ancient Egyptians reached SA ~unknown but ~ 5000 bc +-4000y.??????really noone knows when.
     
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  5. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I know that too. The article is about the Chinese sailors. I agree that Ancient Egyptians reached the Americas far before anyone else.

    In fact, the first Native Indians are originally coming from the direction of Egypt. That is not the issue here. It are the Chinese.

    Be nice, play along...

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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    sorry, have no info on Chinese
    and I don't think tht it really matters, right

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  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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  9. Nephilim Registered Senior Member

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    Well if the vikings got here before columbus, than others probably did too.

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  10. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Native Americans scooted on over from far north-east Asia.

    Leif Ericson found and settled L'Ans Aux Meadows or whatever in Canada using older maps and tales told by older sailos. People got there before him.
     
  11. Nephilim Registered Senior Member

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    I saw, long ago, this tv show that pointed out that ancient chinese anchors had been found off the coast of California. Would that be proof? Yup, if its true.

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  12. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    tht has already proven to be untrue. there are pictures/ sculptures of Africans in SA. Many myths are the same. they had knowledge of white and beared men. they have a story about Moses(a different name but story's the same) and the flood. Ancient Egyptian boats have proven to be able to swim over atlantic (expedition of Kon-Tiki). pyramids. and oth.
     
  14. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Avatar, you are right. It is told that 'Moses' who got the tablets with the Ten Commandments lost these and the Natives in the Americas do have one of them. Taken with them when they came from Egypt long, long ago. It is from that direction, humans started to scatter all over the world and settled.

    The Ten Commandments are written on two tablets and one of them is kept and saved by the Indians, the Natives of the Americas, since the time they came and settled there...
     
  15. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Have smth more on this. maybe a link or smth?
    quite interesting, but probably it is made up
     
  16. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    tht has already proven to be untrue. there are pictures/ sculptures of Africans in SA. Many myths are the same. they had knowledge of white and beared men. they have a story about Moses(a different name but story's the same) and the flood. Ancient Egyptian boats have proven to be able to swim over atlantic (expedition of Kon-Tiki). pyramids. and oth.

    I guess we should talk specific tribes as none of the tribes in North America accept your theroy or belief.

    www.nativeamerica.com

    LONG BEFORE the white man set foot on American soil, the American Indians, or rather the Native Americans, had been living in America. When the Europeans came here, there were probably about 10 million Indians populating America north of present-day Mexico. And they had been living in America for quite some time. It is believed that the first Native Americans arrived during the last ice-age, approximately 20,000 - 30,000 years ago through a land-bridge across the Bering Sound, from northeastern Siberia into Alaska. The oldest documented Indian cultures in North America are Sandia (15000 BC), Clovis (12000 BC) and Folsom (8000 BC)

    Also I can say the Cherokee nation, Navajo nation, and Peyote Church of God have no knowledge of your so called man named moses with the ten commandants.
     
  17. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    He had a different name for indians. Christians named him Noas (how could I mix it with moses!!!

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    sorry) And I know the legend and will try to find it, but the theory about indians coming only over the Bering pass is dated and many scientists now agree tht tht was not the only path inhabitants of Americas took.

    One of the facts is tht There have been found equally ancient human remains in SA among the Andes(sp), which couldn't have happened if people were migrating from North to South.
    the Bering-Only theory is dated and not likable.
    Cheers!
     
  18. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    334
    I know of many flood stories and creation myths from North America Native Americans..sense my last post I have been looking into what you are saying and so far it appears the Inca might be the tribe you are talking about ..Something about a guy from Norway sailed in boat like that time and proved sailing was possible..
     
  19. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    one myth......



    the Great Flood


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In ancient times, there were so many people in the land that they lived everywhere. Soon hunting became bad and food scarce, so that the people quarrelled over hunting territories.

    Even in those days, the people were skilled in making fine canoes and paddles from cedars, and clothing and baskets from their bark. In dreams their wise old men could see the future, and there came a time when they all had similar bad dreams that kept coming to them over and over again. The dreams warned of a great flood. This troubled the wise men who told each other about their dreams. They found that they all had dreamed that rain fell for such a long time, or that the river rose, causing a great flood so that all of the people were drowned. They were much afraid and called a council to hear their dreams and decide what should be done. One said that they should build a great raft by tying many canoes together. Some of the people agreed, but others laughed at the old men and their dreams.

    The people who believed in the dreams worked hard building the raft. It took many moons of hard work, lashing huge cedar log canoes together with strong ropes of cedar bark. When it was completed, they tied the raft with a great rope of cedar bark to the top of Mount Cowichan by passing one end of the rope through the centre of a huge stone which can still be seen there.

    During the time the people were working on the raft, those who did not believe in the dreams were idle and still laughed, but they did admire the fine, solid raft when it was at last finished and floated in Cowichan Bay.

    Soon after the raft was ready, huge raindrops started falling, rivers overflowed, and the valleys were flooded. Although people climbed Mount Cowichan to avoid the great flood, it too was soon under water. But those who had believed the dreams took food to the raft and they and their families climbed into it as the waters rose. They lived on the raft many days and could see nothing but water. Even the mountain tops had disappeared beneath the flood. The people became much afraid when their canoes began to flood and they prayed for help. Nothing happened for a long time; then the rain stopped.

    The waters began to go down after a time, and finally the raft was grounded on top of Mount Cowichan. The huge stone anchor and heavy rope had held it safe. As the water gradually sank lower and lower, the people could see their lands, but their homes had all been swept away. The valleys and forests had been destroyed. The people went back to their old land and started to rebuild their homes.

    After a long time the number of people increased, until once again the land was filled and the people started to quarrel again. This time they separated into tribes and clans, all going to different places. The storytellers say this is how people spread all over the earth.
     
  20. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Genesis According to the Miao People

    Genesis According to the Miao People

    Translated by Edgar A. Truax*

    Institute for Creation Research, PO Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021
    Voice: (619) 448-0900 FAX: (619) 448-3469

    "Vital Articles on Science/Creation" April 1991
    Copyright © 1991 All Rights Reserved



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Introductory Note:
    The Miao tribes, or as it is spelled in most encyclopedias "Miautso," at one time occupied most of inland China south of the Yangtze River, but have been gradually driven into the mountains of the southwest by the better-armed and better-organized Chinese. The Miao of our section claim to have been driven out of Kiangsi Province.

    The Miao traditions are very precise, as compared with those of many primitive peoples, because they are not only handed down in metrical form, but, also, they are in couplets, in which the same or similar meaning is expressed in different wording, so that the second sentence acts as a definition of the first, where it might otherwise not be clear. This is very much like one form of Hebrew poetry - an example of which is found in Psalm 21:1,2.

    The Translation

    The Creation


    On the day God created the heavens and earth.
    On that day He opened the gateway of light.
    In the earth then He made heaps of earth and of stone.
    In the sky He made bodies, the sun and the moon.
    In the earth He created the hawk and the kite.
    In the water created the lobster and fish.
    In the wilderness made He the tiger and bear,
    Made verdure to cover the mountains,
    Made forest extend with the ranges,
    Made the light green cane,
    Made the rank bamboo.
    Man


    On the earth He created a man from the dirt.
    Of the man thus created, a woman He formed.
    Then the Patriarch Dirt made a balance of stones.
    Estimated the weight of the earth to the bottom.<!#[p.9]> (Note 1)<!#[p.255]>
    Calculated the bulk of the heavenly bodies.
    And pondered the ways of the Deity, God.
    The Patriarch Dirt begat Patriarch Se-teh.
    The Patriarch Se-Teh begat a son Lusu.
    And Lusu had Gehlo and he begat Lama.
    The Patriarch Lama begat the man Nuah.
    His wife was the Matriarch Gaw Bo-lu-en.
    Their sons were Lo Han, Lo Shen and Jah-hu. <!#[p.9]>(Note 2)<!#[p.255]>
    So the earth began filling with tribes and with families.
    Creation was shared by the clans and the peoples.
    The World Wicked


    These did not God's will nor returned His affection.
    But fought with each other defying the Godhead.
    Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty
    Then the earth was convulsed to the depth of three strata.
    Rending the air to the uttermost heaven.
    God's anger arose till His Being was changed;
    His wrath flaring up filled His eyes and His face.
    Until He must come and demolish humanity.
    Come and destroy a whole world full of people.
    The Flood


    So it poured forty days in sheets and in torrents.
    Then fifty-five days of misting and drizzle.
    The waters surmounted the mountains and ranges.
    The deluge ascending leapt valley and hollow.
    An earth with no earth upon which to take refuge!
    A world with no foothold where one might subsist!
    The people were baffled, impotent and ruined,
    Despairing, horror stricken, diminished and finished.
    But the Patriarch Nuah was righteous.
    The Matriarch Gaw Bo-lu-en upright.
    Built a boat very wide.
    Made a ship very vast.
    Their household entire got aboard and were floated,
    The family complete rode the deluge in safety.
    The animals with him were female and male.
    The birds went along and were mated in pairs.
    When the time was fulfilled, God commanded the waters.
    The day had arrived, the flood waters receded.
    Then Nuah liberated a dove from their refuge,
    Sent a bird to go forth and bring again tidings.
    The flood had gone down into lake and to ocean;
    The mud was confined to the pools and the hollows.
    There was land once again where a man might reside;
    There was a place in the earth now to rear habitations.
    Buffalo then were brought, an oblation to God,
    Fatter cattle became sacrifice to the Mighty.
    The Divine One then gave them His blessing;
    Their God then bestowed His good graces.
    Babel


    Lo-han then begat Cusah and Mesay.<!#[p.9]> (Note 3)<!#[p.255]>
    Lo-shan begat Elan and Nga-shur.
    Their offspring begotten became tribes and peoples;
    Their descendants established encampments and cities.
    Their singing was all with the same tunes and music;
    Their speaking was all with the same words and language.
    Then they said let us build us a very big city;
    Let us raise unto heaven a very high tower.
    This was wrong, but they reached this decision;
    Not right, but they rashly persisted.
    God struck at them then, changed their language and accent.
    Descending in wrath, He confused tones and voices.
    One's speech to the others who hear him has no meaning;
    He's speaking in words, but they can't understand him.
    So the city they builded was never completed;
    The tower they wrought has to stand thus unfinished.
    In despair then they separate under all heaven,
    They part from each other the globe to encircle.<!#[p.9]> (Note 4)<!#[p.255]>
    They arrive at six corners and speak the six languages.
    Miao Genealogy


    The Patriarch Jahphu got the center of nations.<!#[p.9]> (Note 5)<!#[p.255]>
    The son he begat was the Patriarch Go-men.
    Who took him a wife called the Matriarch Go-yong.
    Their grandson and his wife both took the name Tutan.
    Their descendants are given in order as follows:
    Patriarch Gawndan Mew-wan,
    Matriarch Cawdan Mew-jew;
    Patriarch Jenku Dawvu, Matriarch Jeneo Boje;
    Patriarch Gangen Newang (wife not given);
    Patriarch Seageweng, Matriarch Maw gueh.
    Their children, eleven in number, was each the head of a family.
    Five branches became the Miao nation.
    Six families joined with the Chinese.
    The story continues through many more pages, telling of the separation of the Chinese and Miao; their travels and demon worship, their division into families.

    The Miao at funerals and weddings recite the ancestry of the principal or principals clear back to Adam. Their frequent use of it may account for its accuracy.


    Notes:

    [1] The Miao say that on the bottom of the bottom of the earth is a land of dwarfs.
    [2] Note the similarity of some of these names to those in the Bible account: Seth, Lamech, Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japheth.
    [3] Note the similarity:
    Ham's descendants: Bible Cush, Mizram; Miao Cusah, Mesay
    Shem's descendants: Bible Elam, Asshur; Miao Elan, Nga shur
    [4] The literal translation here is: "They parted went live encircle world ball." The Miao know nothing of the world being round, so this passage seems to indicate the perfect knowledge of the original man - Devolution instead of Evolution.
    [5] From this we see that they trace their ancestry from Japheth and Gomer, which makes them of the Indo-European stock.
    The Miao did not originally worship idols, but learned this from the Chinese after having been subdued by them. This poem, which is learned by heart and transmitted from generation to generation, is translated and brought to you with the hope that you will be inspired to PRAY MUCH for these people. They evidently once knew the true God. Pray that they may learn to know Him as Father, and Jesus, whom He has sent to be the Way back to Him.


    Editor's Comments:
    This remarkable account of creation and the flood apparently has been handed down generation after generation from the ancestors of the Miao tribespeople in the mountains of southwest China, for they possessed this legend before they met missionaries. It was translated into English by a missionary, Ernest Truax, who spent most of his life working for the Lord among these people. He sent me the story many years ago, before Acts & Facts began publication. Recently, Mr. James Honeyman also acquired a copy and sent it to me. He also was able to find the address of Mrs. Ellen Truax, widow of the missionary, and make contact with her.

    Mrs. Truax has now copyrighted the translation and has graciously given us permission to publish it as an "Impact" article, so that Christians everywhere could become aware of this amazing record, and also could pray for the Miao people as Mr. Truax desired.

    Although many legends of creation and the flood have been preserved, only a few have included the story of Babel and the post-flood dispersion. This is surely one of the most Bible-like of all these traditions, and bears significant independent testimony to the truth of the record in Genesis. Even though we have been unable so far to locate anyone who can confirm the authenticity of the Miao tradition or the accuracy of its translation, it clearly has the ring of truth about it and we can believe it is authentic until someone can prove otherwise. Its differences from the Biblical account clearly show its source was not directly from the Bible or early Christian missionaries (if any), but its similarities are so striking as to imply that it came from the same original source - namely, the events themselves!




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    from http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-214.htm
     
  21. justagirl Registered Senior Member

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    334
    smiles yeah I have read that one...each tribe pretty much has their own..here is two I have dug up
    " There was total darkness for a great time over the whole of the earth; the Choctaw doctors or mystery-men looked out for daylight for a long time, until at last they despaired of ever seeing it, and the whole nation was very unhappy. At last a light was discovered in the North, and there was great rejoicing, until it was found to be great mountains of water rolling on, which destroyed them all, except a few families who had expected it and built a great raft, on which they were saved"


    "Choctaw" Peter Pinchlin



    A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.

    Aztec

    I have a huge interest in this as my grandmother was Cherokee and I am a member of the Peyote Church of God smiles
     
  22. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    more

    Flood Traditions:

    Memories of the great Flood that once covered the earth are retained in many cultures around the world. While details vary and the story is typically adapted to the local environment, they provide a remarkable anthropological testimony to the Genesis Flood. Apparently as humanity spread across the face of the earth after Babel, they carried the flood tradition with them. The following are a list of flood traditions, and a statistical breakdown of those traditions, taken from the following source:
    Morris, John D. & Tim F. LaHaye, The Ark on Ararat (New York: Thomas Nelson Inc., 1976), pp. 233-237.

    Note to skeptics who, to maintain the evolutionary faith and deny the Flood, have dismissed these stories as having been started by unknown missionaries:
    1. Dozens of the records, such as both Gilgamesh records of the Flood, and several dozen varieties recorded by the Greeks, were recorded prior to the founding of Christianity.
    2. Characteristically absent are any mention of Jesus or anything else in the New Testament or Old Testament events after Babel (when the common heritage of mankind was ended). What sort of missionary only tells stories about Noah's Flood and then moves on without mentioning Jesus?? Yet this is what we should expect if the records are indigenous.
     
  23. Nephilim Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Zecharia Sitchin books,
    12th planet
    genesis revisited
    the stairway to heaven
    the wars of gods and men
    the lost realms
    when time began the cosmic code
    these books are greatif you can keep an open mind. The one in old type deals with south america, and those statues of african male heads that stand thirteen feet tall.

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    These books also talk about similiar histories from around the world.
     

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