Is it possible to have too many males?

In Asian societies, males are prefered over females. Currently the rate is rising, The rate is 120 boys for every 100 girls. This will end up being a HUGE problem in the future.

The possible solutions, boys born in China may have to look for females elsewhere, thats one solution. The problem still is not completely solved, because thats not going to be easy. The second problem, which should be of concern is that, what psychological impact will this have on these boys?

How will this gender imbalance manifest longterm? What are your opinions on this situation folks?

Now there are a lot of false assumptions. The assumption that all of these males will be straight is a false assumption. The assumption that all of these males will be violent is a false assumption. It still does not change the question, can there be too many males?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24761-2004Jul2.html?referrer=emailarticlepg
http://www.evoyage.com/Book Reviews/BareBranches.htm

 

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The ideal (and natural) ratio is 1:1. Disturbances in such cause social problems galore. However, this will likely benefit China's population problem.

 

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It seems beneficial because it would tend to favour only the most fit males reproducing.

 

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Well the preference for males is mostly a problem for the Chinese because of their one child policy (now they also have a one dog policy). The preference for boys leads to abortions of females as they are considered a 'second happiness' but this isn't an asian problem since other nations don't have this either-or policy. Ironically the one child policy has lead to women having more choices as to whom they can marry because there are more men available and has lead to women being a rare essential. It's lead to divorce options if women are not happy with their spouse (something of a past taboo) and waiting for a more suitable partner. Women can now 'shop around'. I don't think the Chinese will have too many problems working this out as they will simply marry women from neighboring asian countries and perhaps also lead to trafficking of women. The Chinese are quite resourceful.

 

Sure, maybe it would increase the crime level a little bit. But would it increase crime to anything resembling an alarming rate? Don't they have very little crime in those Asian places? Yeah, crime might increase... a little.

Other than that, yeah, it will decrease the reproduction rate. I don't see what the big deal is. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

None of you attempted to answer my question. It has nothing ot do with women, if women wanted more choices they could open Chinas borders and import males from foreign cuontries. So it's not about giving women choice.

What exactly is society supposed to do with these excess men? What if these men decide to leave China? Can't you see how it could be a problem globally? The only way it wouldnt be a problem is if these men all stay in one place, which I doubt will happen if the women are all outside of China, along with all the other resources. Also the economy is global, this will put pressure on American men, and men all around the world, because men generally see each other as competitors.

I don't see what good can come from it, you look in prison and theres a lot of men, and we see how that environment is. Theres also a lot of men in the military. Basically there are very few places for large groups of men to go, and none of them are usually what we'd consider safe.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions. You are leaving it up to the Chinese to report on their own crime rates, for all you know they might have crime as high as America, and simply have laws so strict that you get killed instantly. You have to remember that the laws in Asian countries are a lot more strict.

Second, who says it will be crime? We have to worry about these males organizing, and becoming organized crime which won't be detected by the government. We also have to worry about these males joining the military. You also have to worry about the fact that China already has over a billion people, if there are more and more males, that should make anyone who isnt Chinese a bit worried about the very deliberately gender biased population increase.

The signs just don't look good. It's just common sense at this point that males are the more violent gender. I don't mean to stereotype all males because I'm a male, but honestly, have you seen any place filled with males that did not turn violent?

Do you really think that China is going to keep their excess males or do you think with the current open boarders and immigration policies that these males might go abroad and seek citizenship elsewhere? That would be the most optimistic situation. The less optimistic situations would be large global organized criminal rings, and a bigger bolder military. Neither of these other situations would be in our best interest. So to think it's a problem only for China would be ridiculous. At some point it's going to be a problem for us.

Ideally, people should have the gender ratio 1:1, or let the females outnumber the males, thats my opinion. I don't think it makes any sense to let the males outnumber the females. We all know that females can have babies from multiple males, but males can't do this and usually only have one female to choose from, or two, and this would mean a lot of males will be encouraged to leave China. Take into account that males are more likely to leave the house in traditional society than females, if it were females then you'd expect China to open it's borders, but this is not happening, instead China is over populated and wants the rest of the world to open it's borders. Do you see how this can be a bigger problem if it's males?

You are assuming the most fit males reproduce. It's never so simple. The women decide who reproduces or not, it's always been the women who decided that, fit or unfit, the women decide. These males likely will still want to reproduce and will seek women elsewhere. Also these males have to be absorbed by the global economy.

Problem #1

Problem #2

Problem #3

Is this what we need? More unhappy males? And the article makes plenty of sense, where exactly will the aggressive energy of these males manifest itself? No more of the tired arguement that because they are Asian that they can't possibly be aggressive, by now we know thats not true.
http://chronicle.com/free/v50/i34/34a01401.htm

 

I think, in general, having more males may end up increasing the global aggression rate. Also, as a male, and as you are male, you know that it's going to be more competition for us, in a global society, a global economy, more chinese and indian males is very bad for Americans, who's jobs will they be doing?

40% of the worlds people are in India and China, thats a LOT of people.

 

TT, you are making so many bad arguments, I don't know where to start:

1. The problem is mostly a problem LOCALLY. No hordes of Chinese man will invade other countries in search of females.
2. In the chinese manufacturing industry I bet most jobs are/can be done by females (like sawing T shorts) thus more males is not a competition for Americans.
3. Chinese men can't just DECIDE to leave China. Just like African men can't decide to leave Africa. Sure they migrate but there is such a thing as laws of the other countries.
4. The world's agression rate is increased mostly by Western societies fighting for energy resources and not by Chinese males.
5. It wasn't always the women who decided who reproduces. Your opponent argumnet was sound.

Probably there are 20 more bad argumnets, but I got tired...

 

Hi all
I hope all is ok....

If you are a male than a population with lots more men then women is going be pretty crappy...

i remember when i was young and at uni and went out clubbing etc.... their were far more blokes then girls!!!!!!! what sort of chance do you have in pulling...

Thank goodness its only in China/Asia..

Imagine how much worry would come over sdrenski

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
take care
zak

 

Time Traveler: if women wanted more choices they could open Chinas borders and import males from foreign cuontries. So it's not about giving women choice.

I never said that the one child policy is about giving women more choices. I am saying that choices are an outcome of having too many males. You must be mad if you think Chinese women were, are or will ever be in a position to 'import foreign males.'

Time Traveler: What exactly is society supposed to do with these excess men?

Society doesn't have to do anything. They are documenting the affect of 'excess' males and what they are finding is

1. Single male children are often spoiled by their parents.
2. Less likely to have a community minded spirit which has traditionally been typical of confucious based society.
3. Women are less likely to rush into marriage as they have more choices which means men have to bring more to the table if they want a wife.

Since women are also a part of 'society' one must look at the effect it has on them.

Time Traveler: What if these men decide to leave China?

Chinese people have been leaving China for a very long time now which is why there are Chinese people living all over the globe. Why you would think there would be more people leaving is beyond me, especially since China is experiencing an economic boom. Foreigner's are moving to China for business opportunities.

TT: Can't you see how it could be a problem globally?

No I cannot. Please elaborate on your concern.

TT: The only way it wouldnt be a problem is if these men all stay in one place, which I doubt will happen if the women are all outside of China, along with all the other resources.

Umm, perhaps you need to address your paranoia. Since Chinese people live all over the world and the bulk of Chinese people still live in China...what do you mean about them 'staying in one place'? What gives you the impression that women are all outside China? And how is it that China's coal, natural gas and abundant mineral resources are able to pick up and leave the country? Odd argument.

TT: Also the economy is global, this will put pressure on American men, and men all around the world, because men generally see each other as competitors.

Well if you are that worried about it then I guess you will have to step up your act if you are afraid of the thundering herd of Chinese males 'stealin your wimmin'.

TT: don't see what good can come from it, you look in prison and theres a lot of men, and we see how that environment is. Theres also a lot of men in the military. Basically there are very few places for large groups of men to go, and none of them are usually what we'd consider safe.

So you consider Chinese men fundamentally 'unsafe' and 'criminal'? Do you run away when you see a group of them walking down the street?

In short stop worrying. If the rumor is true Chinese men are supposed to have small weiners instead of large sausages between their legs so perhaps women won't find them so 'appetizing'. On the other hand if American men come across as whingy whining babies afraid of 'competition' then a confident Chinese male will perhaps find themselves endowed with sudden sex appeal.

 

No, it's not possible.

 

Greco-Roman was not an offshoot of Mesopatamian. Greek civilization developed in Greece isolated from Mesopatamian influence.

 

Actually there has almost always been more females than males in America. Also America has not peaked out with over a billion people, at least not the USA anyway.

We do see that there are gangs in America, and not just in inner cities, we see this is a trend that exists in every place where males gather in groups, it can express in gangs, or just in ruthless but legal forms of businesses.

The Chinese economy is growing faster than it's population, but the population is still growing and there will not be a billion surplus jobs anytime soon. China does not have their own jobs, it's a global economy, we all must fight for jobs, if you havent figured that out you are dumb. Males in America vs Males in China. It's Males in America vs Males in India. That's how the global economy is organized, and until we decide to become efficient (not going to happen anytime soon), it's always going to be like this and we basically have to view all males in India and China as our main competition.

Do you think American males will be more valueable with every Chinese or Indian male born to replace them? It's not about Euro-Anglo vs Asian, I never even brought up the racial or cultural component. I don't care about that aspect of the issue. It's regional. They won't open their borders to let millions of us move there to work, yet our borders are wide open. They want to explort junk to us that we don't really need, so that we can't build our own junk for ourselves?

China is driving down American wealth, in specific, it's driving down the middle class in America. This is due to a trade deficit, it's a rigged market.

Next, you should be aware that, more males is usually a sign of a closing society not an opening society. It's usually a sign that males will be leaving China, not a sign that Americans will be invited into China to marry the surplus women.

Seriously, I don't see how you or anyone can think that more aggressive minds can make the world more stable. I'm male, sure, but I'm also honest enough to admit that when it comes to launching the wars, males seem to always be the ones who launch them. You never hear of females launching wars, and it's not to say they couldnt, but at this time, the world is aggressive enough, and any outlet for Chinese aggression could express itself against the USA. Who do you think will be blamed for all the problems of the world?

 

It's not?

It's very possible. If the world has too many aggressive males, the aggression gets channeled into the military, or into gangs, or into the business world, none of these things would be good for the average American male.

Do you think the average Chinese male is going to look at you as anything but competition? If the male were an American, would you not look at him as competition for women, competition for a job, competition for an education, competition for success?

If the world had more women than males, every male would have the chance to settle down and be a family man. When you have a world with a few women and a lot of males, family is not an option, and suicide rates rise, and then you have to worry about wars and terrorism. It's not a guarentee that war and terrorism will be the result of a high male population, but it certainly decreases international security to have the lack of balance between the genders. It's not in our best interest as American males. It's not in China's best interest as women in China may be oppressed by all these surplus males. I'm not even sure it would be in these individual males best interest because they'd have a harder more competitive life.

It's in the best interest of China, as a nation, that I'll admit, but it's not in the best interest of America, or the international community.

 

Time Traveler: If the world had more women than males, every male would have the chance to settle down and be a family man.

You mean a family man with two or three mistresses.

TT: It's not in China's best interest as women in China may be oppressed by all these surplus males.

Give one piece of evidence outside of female abortions or infanticide which shows China's one child policy has lead to the oppression of chinese women because of surplus males.

And what exactly is your solution to the thundering hordes of Chinese men you expect to one day overwhelm you?

TT: It's usually a sign that males will be leaving China, not a sign that Americans will be invited into China to marry the surplus women.

Why would they need to engage their women with foreign men which happens naturally enough as it is? Why do you neglect to realize that Chinese men are more likely to marry North Korean, Vietnamese, Khmer, Thai women?

TT: Seriously, I don't see how you or anyone can think that more aggressive minds can make the world more stable. I'm male, sure, but I'm also honest enough to admit that when it comes to launching the wars, males seem to always be the ones who launch them. You never hear of females launching wars, and it's not to say they couldnt...

Or already have? Does Margaret Thatcher, Elizabeth 1st, Catherine d'medici and Golda Meir count? Women have rarely maintained enough political power long enough to test whether they are more or less likely to actively engage in wars compared to their male counterparts.

TT: Who do you think will be blamed for all the problems of the world?


The U.S as usual.

 

TT:Males in America vs Males in China. It's Males in America vs Males in India.

TT, what you are not getting is that India and China has the advantage of currency and wage and not just the number of workers. Because of the HUGE wage difference and the artifical currency rate in case of China it is VERY cheap to manufactiure there products. It has nothing to do with too many males. Again, I bet most manufacturing is done (at least 50% ) by females.

Vietnam already started on the same path and actually taking away jobs from China.

The US couldn't compete with them even if it wanted. A US T shirt maker would want at least 8-10$ an hour and the counterpart there gets paid 20 cents or so.
An Indian engineer gets 5-8K a year compared to a US engineer's 50-80K.
The US has no chance as long as the salaries get much closer to each other.

Again, nothing to do with too many males....To answer costumer service calls on the phone in India the ladies only need to speak English, they don't need to do heavy lifting...

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Just for fun:

Since females actually are better at manufacturing small part products and that's what the Chinese do, I could argue that too many males is actually causing disadvantage for the Chinese in the global workmarket...

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