View Full Version : Mohammed's sword.
outlandish
10-08-06, 06:39 PM
Although the subject matter of this article would have it better placed in the history section, I am placing it here on the basis of relevance as a result of the recent comments made by the pope.
Full article:
Muhammad's swordBy Uri Avnery ( http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=105&ItemID=11039)
Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits." The treatment of other religions by Islam must be judged by a simple test: How did the Muslim rulers behave for more than a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread the faith by the sword"?
Well, they just did not.
For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.
THERE IS no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time. Poets like Yehuda Halevy wrote in Arabic, as did the great Maimonides. In Muslim Spain, Jews were ministers, poets, scientists. In Muslim Toledo, Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars worked together and translated the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific texts. That was, indeed, the Golden Age. How would this have been possible, had the Prophet decreed the "spreading of the faith by the sword"?
When the Catholics re-conquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews and the Muslims were presented with a cruel choice: to become Christians, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousand of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. The Sephardi ("Spanish") Jews settled all over the Muslim world, from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east, from Bulgaria (then part of the Ottoman Empire) in the north to Sudan in the south. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Christian countries, up to the Holocaust.
WHY? Because Islam expressly prohibited any persecution of the "peoples of the book". In Islamic society, a special place was reserved for Jews and Christians. They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll-tax, but were exempted from military service - a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion - because it entailed the loss of taxes.
THE STORY about "spreading the faith by the sword" is an evil legend, one of the myths that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims - the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks, who almost conquered Vienna. I suspect that the German Pope, too, honestly believes in these fables. That means that the leader of the Catholic world, who is a Christian theologian in his own right, did not make the effort to study the history of other religions.
Zakariya04
10-09-06, 02:51 AM
Outlandish
thank you for this thread and posting the recent article by uri Avnery.
URI is indeed a really prgressive kind of guy who looks beyond the usual sort of nonsense... Olmert should be taking advice from people like him.... he is a credit to his nation.
Uri and other are the ones who really love peace and freedowm, not that dim wit bush
However neocons will find a way to bash him down no doubt.
#######
take care
zak
Hue_Hare
10-09-06, 04:31 AM
uri is a fanatical lefty.
Zakariya04
10-09-06, 04:43 AM
uri is a fanatical lefty.
yeah he is but he rights kinda nice stuff
For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.
Yust wondering but wasn't the story from the pope from a greek ruler. Even now the Greeks and the Turks don't really mix.
"They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll-tax, but were exempted from military service - a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion - because it entailed the loss of taxes."
Deny them basic human rights, embezzle their wallets and keep them oppressed so as to make a tidy profit. Sickening.
outlandish
10-09-06, 11:42 AM
uri is a fanatical lefty.
1)ad hom attack on the author does not constitute a valid refutation of the ineherent validy of the content of the article
2) your perceptions as to who is/isnt or what constitutes a "radical lefty" are totaly irrelevant and equate to nothing
uri is a fanatical lefty.
Kiwi? or facts? Which one are you?
Zakariya04
10-09-06, 12:51 PM
URI is great
spidergoat
10-09-06, 04:57 PM
So what about Mohammed conquering rival tribes in order to establish Islam in the first place?
hypewaders
10-09-06, 05:17 PM
What major institutions of antiquity were not founded on force or threat of force?
spidergoat
10-09-06, 05:19 PM
What major institutions of antiquity were not founded on force or threat of force?
um, democracy?
"They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll-tax, but were exempted from military service - a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion - because it entailed the loss of taxes."
Deny them basic human rights, embezzle their wallets and keep them oppressed so as to make a tidy profit. Sickening.
Paying taxes and exemption from military service is denial of basic human rights and oppression?
As compared to pogroms and extermination ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_the_Middle_Ages#The_Crusades
The Jewish immigrants who had taken refuge in Ottoman Empire between 1300-1500
* Jews of Hungary, in 1376
* Jews of France, in 1394
* Jews of Sicily, at the beginnings of 15th century
* Jews of Bavaria/Germany, in 1470
* Jews of Venice, in 1490
* Jews of Spain and Portugal, in 1492
A great influx of Jews into Turkey and the Ottoman Empire, however, occurred during the reign of Mehmed's successor, Beyazid II (1481-1512), after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain and Portugal. The sultan recognized the advantage to his country of this accession of wealth and industry, and bade the Spanish fugitives welcome, issuing orders to his provincial governors to receive them hospitably. The sultan is said to have exclaimed thus at the Spanish monarch's lack of wisdom: "Ye call Ferdinand a wise king — he who makes his land poor and ours rich!" The Jews supplied a need in the Ottoman empire: the Muslim Turks were good soldiers, but they were largely uninterested in business enterprises due to Islamic limitations on commercial dealings; and accordingly left commercial occupations to members of minority religions.
The Jews introduced various arts and industries into the country. They distinguished themselves also as physicians and were used as interpreters and diplomatic agents. Selim I. (1512-20), the successor of Bayezid II., employed a Jewish physician, Joseph Hamon. This ruler also was kind to the Jews; and after the conquest of Egypt (1517) he appointed Abraham de Castro to the position of master of the mint in that country.
Suleiman I (the Magnificent) (1520-66), like his predecessor Selim I, had a Jewish body-physician, Moses Hamon II, who accompanied his royal master on his campaigns. Turkey at this time was at the high-water mark of its power and influence and was feared and respected by the great powers of Europe. Its Jews were correspondingly prosperous. They held positions of trust and honor, took part in diplomatic negotiations, and had so much influence at court that foreign Christian ambassadors were frequently compelled to obtain favors through them. Commerce was largely in their hands; and they rivaled Venice in maritime trade. In Constantinople they owned beautiful houses and gardens on the shores of the Bosphorus.
The Jewish population of Ottoman Empire had reached nearly 500,000 at the start of the 20th century.[1] Turkey granted protected minority status to the Jews in 1926. During World War II, while the Jewish communities of occupied Greece were wiped out almost completely by German and Bulgarian occupation forces, Turkey remained neutral and was not occupied by the Germans, and hence the Turkish Jews remained secure.
And it is well known that during World War II, when the US and UK were turning away Jews escaping from the Nazis (or returning them), it was only in the ME that the Jews were able to obtain refuge.
In the interest of fairness:
All the favor shown to individual Jews, however, did not affect the lot of the community as a whole, whose fate depended on the caprice of a despotic ruler. The prosperous condition of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire during this period was not a deep-rooted one. It did not rest on fixed laws or conditions, but depended wholly on the caprice of individual rulers. In addition there was no unity among the Jews themselves. They had come to the Ottoman Empire from many lands, bringing with them their own customs and opinions, to which they clung tenaciously, and had founded separate congregations.
The formation of Israel is one of the main reasons why Jews face hostility in the ME today.
spidergoat
10-09-06, 05:46 PM
Somehow I don't think what happened in Israel amounts to refuge.
Somehow I don't think what happened in Israel amounts to refuge.
I'm talking about before the formation of Israel.
During the 1920s, 100,000 Jewish immigrants entered Palestine, and 6,000 non-Jewish immigrants did so as well. Jewish immigration was controlled by the Histadrut, which selected between applicants on the grounds of their political creed. Land purchased by Jewish agencies was leased on the conditions that it be worked only by Jewish labour and that the lease should not be held by non-Jews.
Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly, creating much Arab resentment.
hypewaders
10-09-06, 05:50 PM
What major institutions of antiquity were not founded on force or threat of force?
spidergoat: "um, democracy?
It seems to me that democracies of antiquity were compelled to exert force in order to replace or displace monarchies.
Paying taxes and exemption from military service is denial of basic human rights and oppression?
I can't believe you actually responded in that manner, how utterly ridiculous. You actually believe you're doing them a favor.
In the interest of fairness:
The formation of Israel is one of the main reasons why Jews face hostility in the ME today.
In the interest of fairness, we don't welcome Muslims into our country in the same way.
Baron Max
10-09-06, 07:42 PM
The formation of Israel is one of the main reasons why Jews face hostility in the ME today.
But Israel was formed by the League of Nations, then approved later by the UN, then approved in the World Court in the Hague in, like, 1948 or something, and, I think, again later. Israel is recognized by the United Nations.
So, Sam, are you telling me that you don't believe in the law? You believe that people should take the law into their own hands if they aren't satisfied with the court's ruling(s)?
Baron Max
I can't believe you actually responded in that manner, how utterly ridiculous. You actually believe you're doing them a favor.
In the interest of fairness, we don't welcome Muslims into our country in the same way.
Are you serious??
The Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_the_Crusades
The trials which the Jews endured from time to time in the different kingdoms of the Christian West were only indications of the catastrophe which broke over them at the time of the Crusades. A wild, unrestrained throng, for which the crusade was only an excuse to indulge its rapacity, fell upon the peaceful Jews and sacrificed them to its fanaticism. In the First Crusade (1096) flourishing communities on the Rhine and the Danube were utterly destroyed; see German Crusade, 1096. In the Second Crusade (1147) the Jews in France suffered especially. Philip Augustus treated them with exceptional severity. In his days the Third Crusade took place (1188); and the preparations for it proved to be momentous for the English Jews. After unspeakable trials, Jews were banished from England in 1290; and 365 years passed before they were allowed to settle again in the British Isles (see History of the Jews in England). The Jews were also subjected to attacks by the Shepherds' Crusades of 1251 and 1320.
Expulsions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_the_Middle_Ages#The_Crusades
The Jews, who were driven out of England in 1290, out of France in 1394, and out of numerous districts of Germany, Italy, and the Balkan peninsula between 1350 and 1450, were scattered in all directions, and fled preferably to the new Slavic kingdoms, where for the time being other confessions were still tolerated.
As in Slavic countries, so also under Muslim rule the persecuted Jews often found a humane reception, especially from the eighth century onward in the Pyrenean peninsula. But even as early as the thirteenth century the Arabs could no longer offer a real resistance to the advancing force of Christian kings; and with the fall of political power Arabic culture declined, after having been transmitted to the Occident at about the same period, chiefly through the Jews in the north of Spain and in the south of France. At that time there was no field of learning which the Spanish Jews did not cultivate. They studied the secular sciences with the same zeal as the Bible and Talmud.
But the growing influence of the Church gradually crowded them out of this advantageous position. At first the attempt was made to win them to Christianity through writings and religious disputations; and when these attempts failed they were ever more and more restricted in the exercise of their civil rights. Soon they were obliged to live in separate quarters of the cities and to wear humiliating badges on their clothing. Thereby they were made a prey to the scorn and hatred of their fellow citizens. In 1391, when a fanatical mob killed thirty thousand Jews in Seville alone [citation needed], many in their fright sought refuge in baptism. And although they often continued to observe in secret the laws of their fathers the Inquisition soon rooted out these pretended Christians or Maranos. Thousands were thrown into prison, tortured, and burned, until a project was formed to sweep all Spain clean of unbelievers. The plan matured when in 1492 the last Moorish fortress fell into the hands of the Christians. Several hundred thousand Jews were forced from the country which had been their home for 1,500 years. Many of them fled to the Balkan peninsula, where a few decades before the Crescent had won a victory over the Cross through the Ottoman Turks. Sultan Bayazid II of the Ottoman Empire, learning about the expulsion of Jews from Spain, dispatched the Ottoman Navy to bring the Jews safely to Ottoman lands, mainly to the cities of Selanik (currently in Greece) and Izmir (currently in Turkey).
Do you still think we are living in the middle ages sammy
From the examples you give above - obviously you do
Do you still think we are living in the middle ages sammy
Did you read the thread title stewie?
Did you read the thread title stewie?
Baron quite rightly explained how israel was recently formed - and you quote from examples from the past :confused:
Talking of which - thank god for the gates of Vienna lol
Baron quite rightly explained how israel was recently formed - and you quote from examples from the past :confused:
Talking of which - thank god for the gates of Vienna lol
Well stewie seeing as I was answering (Q), not baron, that is easily explained.
Baron Max
10-09-06, 08:10 PM
Baron quite rightly explained how israel was recently formed - and you quote from examples from the past :confused:
Stu, meet Sam! She'll turn everything you say around backwards and inside out in some twisted game to justify anything and everything that the Muslim terrorists do ..no matter what it is!
You'd be wise to simply disregard her posts as the foolish things they usually are. Ditto for Zak!
Baron Max
Stu, meet Sam! She'll turn everything you say around backwards and inside out in some twisted game to justify anything and everything that the Muslim terrorists do ..no matter what it is!
You'd be wise to simply disregard her posts as the foolish things they usually are. Ditto for Zak!
Baron Max
Strange how you cannot follow your own advice. ;)
Stu, meet Sam! She'll turn everything you say around backwards and inside out in some twisted game to justify anything and everything that the Muslim terrorists do ..no matter what it is!
You'd be wise to simply disregard her posts as the foolish things they usually are. Ditto for Zak!
Baron Max
Yup Baron - You're correct!!
I can't and will never understand the muslims train of thought - thats because they are full of brainwashed hogwash about a big spooky guy in the sky who they pray to????
They cant see,, touch, smell, hear, and non of them have seen this big thing they call a god, nope, its Alan isn't it? They call it Alan.
Well - anyway they worship this imaginary guy in the sky called Alan and apparently they are into heavy metal music cos they all go around reading that mag called "The Kerrang". Its got some cool groups in it too.
And what makes it worse. Sam is a female - now - If any man can understand a woman then he's either round the twist or a liar. No-one can understand women apart from other women - they are a strange breed with very odd logic - add a touch of Islam to the ingredients and Viola!! You get someone who talks gibberish and comes up with cryptic answers. Never in a million years will man understand a womans way of thought - its a fact. But a female muslim - well you have no chance - she might as well have come from Pluto for all the chance you have with communicating with it. :D
Yup Baron - You're correct!!
I can't and will never understand the muslims train of thought - thats because they are full of brainwashed hogwash about a big spooky guy in the sky who they pray to????
They cant see,, touch, smell, hear, and non of them have seen this big thing they call a god, nope, its Alan isn't it? They call it Alan.
Well - anyway they worship this imaginary guy in the sky called Alan and apparently they are into heavy metal music cos they all go around reading that mag called "The Kerrang". Its got some cool groups in it too.
And what makes it worse. Sam is a female - now - If any man can understand a woman then he's either round the twist or a liar. No-one can understand women apart from other women - they are a strange breed with very odd logic - add a touch of Islam to the ingredients and Viola!! You get someone who talks gibberish and comes up with cryptic answers. Never in a million years will man understand a womans way of thought - its a fact. But a female muslim - well you have no chance - she might as well have come from Pluto for all the chance you have with communicating with it.
Why stewie you do have a sense of humor!!!! :D
Well stewie seeing as I was answering (Q), not baron, that is easily explained.
Stewie's quite right, you were talking about Israel and then proceeded to provide links to the Crusades??? Who gives a rats patootie about the Crusades? Two religious ideologies warring with one another. Nothing new.
You're in America now, toots, you can pretty much do what you want, wear what you want, eat what you want and even change religions if you want, and no one will care. That's freedom, baby. You're welcome here.
Can't say that about the ME.
Stewie's quite right, you were talking about Israel and then proceeded to provide links to the Crusades??? Who gives a rats patootie about the Crusades? Two religious ideologies warring with one another. Nothing new.
You're in America now, toots, you can pretty much do what you want, wear what you want, eat what you want and even change religions if you want, and no one will care. That's freedom, baby. You're welcome here.
Can't say that about the ME.
Ah my mistake. I thought we were discussing outlandish's article.
Stewie's quite right, you were talking about Israel and then proceeded to provide links to the Crusades??? Who gives a rats patootie about the Crusades? Two religious ideologies warring with one another. Nothing new.
You're in America now, toots, you can pretty much do what you want, wear what you want, eat what you want and even change religions if you want, and no one will care. That's freedom, baby. You're welcome here.
Can't say that about the ME.
But some people are forbidden to marry, adopt children or serve in the military. YIPPPEE freeeeedom is fuuun :rolleyes:
But some people are forbidden to marry, adopt children or serve in the military. YIPPPEE freeeeedom is fuuun :rolleyes:
Shit - Where do you live Ghengis? - North Korea??????? :confused:
Shit - Where do you live Ghengis? - North Korea??????? :confused:Kansas.
Kansas.
So you're saying that everyone in Kansas is forbidden to marry, adopt children or serve in the military???
:confused:
So you're saying that everyone in Kansas is forbidden to marry, adopt children or serve in the military???
:confused:
Try to connect the dots using the information given, stewie.
Try to connect the dots using the information given, stewie.
I was talking to the organ grinder - not the monkey
I was talking to the organ grinder - not the monkey
Still can't connect the dots, huh? :p
Still can't connect the dots, huh? :p
True to form - women always love to have the last word - no matter how stupid it makes them sound
Over to monkey........
So you're saying that everyone in Kansas is forbidden to marry, adopt children or serve in the military???
:confused:You have to be a heterosexual to marry, adopt children or join the US military. :rolleyes:
Buffalo Roam
10-09-06, 10:27 PM
Wrong two out of three times, Gengi, your improving, you get a cookie.
Wrong tow out of three times, Gengi, your improving, you get a cookie.It is illegal for gays to marry in Kansas.
Gays cannot legally adopt children
Gays cannot join the US military. Don't ask don't tell. BR WRONG again.
Buffalo Roam
10-09-06, 10:39 PM
Genji
Allow gay couples to adopt
The Oldest Continuously Published College Weekly in the US ... gay singles can already adopt children all over the United States, so what exactly is the ...
http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2006-02-24§ion=2&id=5
And I didn't know that Kansas Law over ruled Federal Law on enlistment, even back when I was serving there were gay's in the military, just keep it off base like so many other thing that are done by the troops, on their off time.
If you wish to serve live by the code of the military, and no problem, if you want to make a political point be a civilian, to get your self kicked out of the military for politics you don't have to be Gay, just open your mouth and choose a subject.
Genji
Allow gay couples to adopt
The Oldest Continuously Published College Weekly in the US ... gay singles can already adopt children all over the United States, so what exactly is the ...
http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2006-02-24§ion=2&id=5
And I didn't know that Kansas Law over ruled Federal Law on enlistment, even back when I was serving there were gay's in the military, just keep it off base like so many other thing that are done by the troops, on their off time.
If you wish to serve live by the code of the military, and no problem, if you want to make a political point be a civilian, to get your self kicked out of the military for politics you don't have to be Gay, just open your mouth and choose a subject.Kansas Proposition 7 passed 5 years ago denying gays adoption rights. Gays are NOT permitted in the military and if one is discovered to be gay they are ousted. Gays are not allowed to marry.
madanthonywayne
10-09-06, 11:39 PM
You have to be a heterosexual to marry, adopt children or join the US military. :rolleyes:
If only you lived under sharia! Then you'd be free to marry any man you wanted!
madanthonywayne
10-09-06, 11:50 PM
[I]Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits."
For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. ]
[I]THERE IS no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time.
[I][B]WHY? Because Islam expressly prohibited any persecution of the "peoples of the book". In Islamic society, a special place was reserved for Jews and Christians.
Judge them by their fruits? The fruits you describe are stale. These tolerant Muslims of yore have given way to extreemists who call for the extermination of all Jews. Who pray for the trees and rocks to assist them in their genocide. They cut off heads of nonbelievers, even those "of the book".
Sure, Islamic nations were more tolerant than Spain during the inquisition. Hell, anyplace short of Nazi Germany was! But what happened? Are they moving backwards? The present is of more concern to me than what happened five hundred years ago. But hey, I'm American. Our whole countries just a bit over two hundred years old.
Buffalo Roam
10-10-06, 09:01 AM
Genji, Kansas is not the whole United States, just move to Mass. and your in like Flint, and again if you want to join the Military, leave the political agenda at home, and join, don't tell and they won't ask. If you want to make a political statement, and make sure your sweet little ass don't catch a bullet, join and make a political point on how you are being denied, If you really want to do something for your country, ENLIST, and leave the politics' at home, and you will get a equal opportunity to die for your country to!
If only you lived under sharia! Then you'd be free to marry any man you wanted!So the message is love the status quo because you could be in the Middle Ages, or Saudi Arabia, right? I don't see why we cannot look FORWARD instead of the usual BACKWARD the Right has us doing. It could always be better.
Buffalo Roam
10-10-06, 08:28 PM
Genji, your are the one telling us how welcome you would be in these other lands, and are we really the ones looking backwards? were does your life style lead? the land of the dinosaurs?
Genji, your are the one telling us how welcome you would be in these other lands, and are we really the ones looking backwards? were does your life style lead? the land of the dinosaurs?:confused: Huh? I mentioned the places I would be as free or more free because of your bandying about the ridiculous notion that the USA is somehow the most free country in the world and that American citizens have all the freedoms no one else has. That is not true. Not even close, so your strawman is just quipping the usual "Well in SHARIA countries you would have LESS freeeeedom.:rolleyes: " More ridiculousness. Progessives look forward. To improving, not regressing, as conservatism does.
Now, what about dinosaurs and lifestyle?? Too many mint julips?
Buffalo Roam
10-10-06, 09:54 PM
If the yearning of your soul is for this freedom, go east then, nothing is holding you here according to you, nothing in this land is for you, and it restricts your freedoms, so go were you think you will be free, but let me warn you the problems will not go away, you will carry them with you, and they will take root and grow were ever you plant yourself.
If the yearning of your soul is for this freedom, go east then, nothing is holding you here according to you, nothing in this land is for you, and it restricts your freedoms, so go were you think you will be free, but let me warn you the problems will not go away, you will carry them with you, and they will take root and grow were ever you plant yourself.The problems will go away if I remain here and work for changes in my government. Odd philosophy for you neocons huh?!
Buffalo Roam
10-10-06, 10:19 PM
You deal with your problems and they may not go away but they become manageable, and you'll find that most of your problems are self generated, because of worry over things that aren't in your Pay Grade to worry about.
We are all turtles, we carry the shell of our existence with us, and never can leave it, much as the turtle, if we can leave it we will die.
You deal with your problems and they may not go away but they become manageable, and you'll find that most of your problems are self generated, because of worry over things that aren't in your Pay Grade to worry about.
We are all turtles, we carry the shell of our existence with us, and never can leave it, much as the turtle, if we can leave it we will die.Pay grade? You are getting personal now. I have been good tonight. What do you not like about my income? I forgot. You only associate with lawyers and rock stars? NBA players and such. Congratulations! :p
Buffalo Roam
10-10-06, 10:39 PM
Genji, forgot you haven't been in the military, it means it isn't your responsibility.
Genji, forgot you haven't been in the military, it means it isn't your responsibility.I pay for it and will continue to express my opinions of it. (www.activeduty.com has some AWESOME soldiers:p )
Baron Max
10-11-06, 06:23 AM
I pay for it and will continue to express my opinions of it.
Anyone can express an opinon, Genji, but the question is ...is that opinion worth anything more than the snot out of a bull's nose? In your case, no!!
Baron Max
Anyone can express an opinon, Genji, but the question is ...is that opinion worth anything more than the snot out of a bull's nose? In your case, no!!
Baron MaxAccording to the banned Baron:D
Kiwi123
10-18-06, 11:44 AM
genji, Muhammad must be very proud that a facist defends his "honour", lol.
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