Using 'Mind Expanding' Drugs.

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by TrevorNiemi, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. TrevorNiemi Registered Member

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    3
    I had been researching LSD (more well known as acid) to better understand what the affects would be; short and long term on my body. After a couple days of research and finding a few personal stories on their trip with LSD I decided it would now be my turn to see what this drug could possibly do that is so "out of this world" like everyone says it was.

    From my research, I knew if I was going to trip I would want to make every minute count! & that I did.

    Needless to say, I found it... quick.

    I have tripped on LSD twice now. Next time I use LSD I plan to have a pencil and paper so I can better remember the thousands upon thousands of thoughts and answers I came up with & read and interpret them when I "get out."

    I would like to hear people's personal opinion's on the use of LSD.
     
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  3. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    hahaha... yeah do that... write down your thoughts....

    and when your sober read those thoughts...

    and you will realise that there is no great insight found.

    you were just really.. really... messed up...

    the long term affect of doing alot of acid... is..

    the melting you see happenning... the wavng.. the way a picture of a boat will suddenly become a moving picture..... will become more and more permanent.

    i.e... the more acid you do, the more easily things will move when you stare at them...... even thought you havent dont it for years.

    it is also stored in you fat cells.... so if 10 years later you deside to diet..
    the loss of fat can release the drugs, and give you a high you didnt ask for.
    it hasnt happened to me, but they say it does.


    i wrote down my thoughts..... and it turned out to be jibberish.

    -MT
     
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  5. sderenzi Banned Banned

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    I agree, LSD is meaningless. Like any drug which alters biochemical markers in the brain this substance has no inherent value other then that. Believing in something, seeing it, these things don't always give us any insights. Take Christianity for example, they believe whatever the dogma tells them, whatever the ignorant masses of priests suggest, and mostly they lack the prior knowledge of their very own histories to determine what Christians were really like. Mostly they just persecuted, tortured, and maimed innocent people that should've been allowed to live long lives.

    Now all Christians do for society is mope, complain they want the end of the world to come, and offer help to those in need but at a very high price... that of your soul.

    I myself would help someone without wanting to convert them or spread a message of god, it's an insult to the very nature of humanity for them to think they are helping anyone.
     
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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Try DMT.

    - N
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    That's not true at all. Many artists have written down, drawn, photographed, recorded, or in some way appropriate to the medium preserved the ideas that came to them under the influence of a drug. Reviewing the ideas later during a state of sobriety, they discovered many of them to be truly insightful. My particular community is musicians so I can't speak with much authority about sculptors, essayists and photographers. But I've heard the creations of stoned musicians and they have greatly enriched the world's musical library. Depending on the drug there may have been a degradation of motor control or discipline so the experiment did not yield a concert-quality performance, but the lyrics, melodies, chords, harmonies, cadences, colorations, dynamics and other motifs were often striking and worth preserving for another day and rehearsing to perfection like any other revelation in the rough.

    And to get back to the original post: The drug under discussion, LSD, was more often than not a singular exception to that compromise. Some of the "live" albums that stand as monuments to the era of "acid rock" were done by musicians high on LSD, on stage in front of an audience, with no significant loss of skill. Yes the live audience may have been stoned too but preserving the performance on vinyl and playing it to sober people in their cars was a perfect control on the experiment.

    This response was an example of the typical unreasoned, off-the-cuff right-wing attitude toward "somebody else's favorite drug." How many of us use caffeine to enhance our own performance? Hmmmm? How many breakthroughs in astrophysics, molecular biology, product design, or business strategy have been made in offices and labs littered with Starbucks containers?

    So what makes you think that everyone's body chemistry is the same, other than the lunatic ravings of Nancy Reagan and the criminally deceitful propaganda of the D.A.R.E. presentations in your grade school? What caffeine does for you, LSD or marijuana or some other equally benign drug does for millions of other people. And maybe for some of them it does it even better.

    If you're talking about unhappy experiences using drugs as teenagers, when your hormones, emotions, judgment, and reservoir of experience were far from mature... Apparently you didn't catch onto the fact that psychoactive drugs can have far different effects on children than adults, generally ranging from less effective at best to downright dangerous at the worst. If you didn't come away from those D.A.R.E. lectures knowing at least that much about drugs, then I repeat the phrase "criminally deceitful." That's probably the single most important thing we need to teach children about drugs--that drugs usually only work right on adults and that taking drugs is a rite of passage like having sex or driving a car--and that's the one thing our government stooges never tell them.
     
  9. Redefine91 I piss excellence Registered Senior Member

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    848
    I heard Shrooms are the safest drug to take in order to "expand your mind"
     
  10. Roman Banned Banned

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    Well said, Fraggle

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    I have had some incredibly enlightening experiences while on shrooms. Epistomological ponderings, mostly. An altered reality certainly makes you wonder what reality means.


    You heard wrong. Shrooms are quite dangerous, and young people routinely die on them.
     
  11. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    My establishment friends have always considered my weird, while my hippy, gay, & other types of friends have always considered me to be a member of the 9-to-5 establishment.

    Long ago, I did some research about hallucinogenics, and did not like what I discovered about LSD. Marijuana and mushroom derived substances have been in use for well over 1000 years without evidence of problems for casual users.

    I had friends who had serious problems as a result of using LSD, and some legitimate science types strongly recomend against its use, while rational people mostly consider mushrooms substances & marijuana to be less harmful than alcohol.

    On the basis of my own reserch, I stayed away from LSD and experimented with the other hallucinogenics.

    I would not consider them mid expanding. Hallucinogenic is an excellent term for them. They cause interesting hallicinations, but neither profound insights nor creative ideas.

    Musicians with lots of experience perform well under their influence, but have years of ingrained habit patterns which allow them to perform in spite of the drugs, not because of them.

    One of the great drummers of all tiome was Gene Kruppa who used cocaine and gave great performances while high on it. For most users, it is a dangerous drug for most users.

    I have heard many anecdotes about creative insights due to drug use, but I have never seen or heard about a well documented case.

    It should be remembered that every person has a unique biochemisty, which is why DNA identification is very accurate. Your body chemistry can make one drug very dangerous, while others are benign.

    I was addicted to cigarettes for a long time, but can have alcohol at a restaurant dinner and not touch it again for several weeks. I have alcoholic friends who can smoke 3 ciugarettes a day (one after every meal), but have had to go through detox for alcohol several times in their lives. When I smoked, it would be impossible for me to have only 3 cigarettes per day. They could not have one drink: I could not have one cigarette.

    Be careful. Almost any substance can be addictive and dangerous if your body chemistry is tuned to it.
     
  12. One word and one piece of advice. The word: duendy. Looker her up. Somewhere in her 50's, still chasing the eponymous White Rabbit.

    The gratuitous advice: The rectum is a wonderful organ. Use it wisely and for the purpose it was designed for.

    Have fun,

    A

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  13. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    Never tried LSD, but it is on my lifes' list..!
     
  14. Betelnut Registered Member

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    14
    LSD can be quite powerful and intense so remember Timothy Leary's advice: Set and setting. Be somewhere you feel safe, be in a good mental state initially (if you are already feeling depressed or stressed out, it might be better to wait until you are feeling more stable) and be with people you trust.

    LSD and shrooms can be wonderful fun. I only freaked out mildly one time but I have seen other people freak out quite badly so you have to know yourself quite well. I don't know if it works, but I have heard that if you are freaking out, drinking milk will help bring you down. Frankly, the worst drug experience I ever had was the first time I ate pot because it was quite strong and I was very inexperienced even with pot at the time. Experience helps.

    Remember, just have a good set and setting. If you think you are about to freak--like you are feeling paranoid or scared, immediately change your set and setting. Go to another room and put on your favorite CD or DVD. It might help.

    Sure write down what you are thinking--it probably won't be as profound as you think it is but it will be hilarious to read later when sober.

    I don't know if "flashbacks" are true, but just the other night I was laying in bed and very sleepy and half asleep with my glasses off. I was looking at my sheets that have a checkered pattern and, in the dim light, those checkers were floating and shifting and moving. It was cool. How dangerous could that be? I turned on the light and put my glasses on and the sheets were just back to being sheets. Was it the many hits of acid I had taken over 15 years ago? Or was the "flashback" just the combination of my nearsighted eyes, the dim light and a tired mind?

    Good luck and be safe.

    The biggest disadvantage to both of these drugs is that you are never quite sure how strong the dosage will be. One hit of acid can be weak--the next may be very strong. Shrooms vary too.

    I found shrooms to be very intense and have a more physical affect--but the most intense part of the trip only lasts 1-2 hours at most. LSD can last many, many hours.
     
  15. Mosheh Thezion Registered Senior Member

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    2,650
    shrooms... are much more emotional... and much better than acid.
    its natural, and the effects are similar but in my opinion... cleaner.

    lsd... has little effects.. which shrooms dont.

    i have always liked shrooms... and smoking them gives a mild calming sensation.

    i hear they are legal in england now.

    -MT
     
  16. As far as I'm aware, they always have been. Possession wise at anyrate, depending on quantity and condition - dried, bagged, marked up at £5.00 a bag - probably not so much, but actual possession in itself...

    Anyway - inclined to agree with you on this one MT. Not that I'm advocating experimentation, but compared to LSD, health and safety wise, definitely have a lot going for them.

    Part and parcel of the problem is the nature of the chemistry of the actually psychoactive part of the what our brave experimenter is all for the finding out about. You're dealing with a group of what are, in nature, basically very delicate quite transient organic compounds. As soon as the body absorbs the things, the body starts breaking them down. This means a shorter, less intense trip - but, more or less 99% of the entire deal (providing, of course, you pick the right ones and not the ones which'll kill you screaming or just make you vomit non-stop for a month) gets broken down and neutralised within a reasonable degree of time.

    Most naturally psychotropics correspond to this sort exact sort of chemical description - delicate. Transient. Easy to break apart.

    The problem with synthesised, chemically produced psychotropics remains the actual method of manufacture - it's quite robust. Without designing the compounds one is trying to synthesises essentially stronger, chemically at the onset, the actual psychotropic one is setting out to make simply wouldn't survive the manufacturing process - herein lies the rub.

    Indeed, LSD lasts longer and remains more intense, being chemically designed to be more robust than the naturally occurring psychotropics it's designed to emulate it makes it that much harder for the body to effectively break down.

    This is where all the stuff about flashbacks come in - basically, what the body can't breakdown and can't shit out it stores it in fat - meaning, even though dealing with relatively speaking minute amounts of unbroken down compounds, you can still be smacked by the one and only hit you ever took 20, 30, 40 years down the line should the body indeed decide to break down the wrong fat repository at the wrong time...

    This is because LSD innately is that much harder to break down.

    The problem gets worse of course when you realise how relatively simple it is to synthesise LSD. Any arsehole can do it, weather they have a degree in chemical engineering or not - and this is exactly where you get you're "bad acid" from - all bad acid actually is is simple regular LSD built just a little bit too robustly and not diluted enough from source to give one an experience to not only remember but conceivably live, forever.

    With naturally occurring psychotropics, of mostly the sort you'll find domestically at anyrate, you will get a much mellower, much easier to metabolise experience - depending on dosage and and the exact variety of psilicybin producing mushies you take...

    As well as how you take them.

    The weather.

    There's a list.

    But, if you've gotta go - go with a smile is what I always say.

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  17. Sauna Banned Banned

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    Thus has been done before and the result is typically gibberish. What appears at the time to be an Earth shattering realization turns out in retrospect to have been anything but.

    Acid is dangerous because it permanently affects your brain, and possibly without an awareness that it did. Some end up with a need to be institutionally cared for because of it.
     
  18. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    5,306
    Quit talking about lil' ol' LSD, it's all about DMT, DMT, DMT.

    - N
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    I have some experience with hallucinogens. Acid does not linger in your body, it is metabolized completely within minutes. I have experienced no long term side effects, and it is a fact that the CIA distributed false information about LSD on purpose, some of which is still being circulated as truth. Mushrooms last about half as long, and can be kinder on your psyche. It is true that hallucinogens can make someone with existing mental health problems worse, so be warned. Besides that, LSD and mushrooms are practically non-toxic, and much safer than hard drugs.

    I have made drawings while on them, but it's best not to try and exploit the experience in order to extract the kind of thing you think now is valuable. It tends to blow your pre-concieved notions out of the water. It can re-orient your value system. I'm not sure why people think LSD needs to produce concrete results, perhaps it is the consumeristic culture we live in. I have found the results profound and subtle. The problem in recording hallucinations is that they are too dense in information to even go through the mind's process of translating image to word, and word to memory. I retain only fleeting glimses of my visions. I found you can either experience them fully, or jam it up trying to capture them. Just give in completely and don't try to get anything out of it.

    I think the danger of flashbacks is exaggerated. I only had one the next day, and it was like getting something for nothing. Nothing bad ever came of it. I don't use LSD anymore. It's not something you need to do over and over. I'm still trying to understand what it was all about.

    The introduction of LSD is one of the most significant events in the history of humanity.
     
  20. Sauna Banned Banned

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    763
    It is absurd to say that LSD is powerful, that it blows pre-concieved notions out of the water, one of the most significant events in the history, while also supposing that it is safe. Lives and relationships depend upon the preconceived notions. People have jumped from tall buildings on acid trips, thinkng they knew how to fly.
     
  21. Redefine91 I piss excellence Registered Senior Member

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    848
    I guess shrooms aren't exactly great for you, but many musicians and authors gain inspiration from experiences involving them.


    I hear if you are on shrooms and walk on the sidewalk, the sidewalk loudly demands you get off it.



    imagine!
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    You should read the section on LSD (and the other drugs while you're there) in The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs. It's still the layman's bible on the subject and widely recommended by everyone except the church and the government, since in the thirty-odd years since its publication research in the field has been distorted and rendered untrustworthy by politicization. The internet has made it easy to find an old dog-eared copy.

    The negative anecdotal evidence presented on this thread is undoubtedly truthful and should be taken seriously, but it needs to be placed in a statistical context.

    Professional musicians certainly have a reserve of talent to get them through a bad night whether its due to a cold, a domestic quarrel, or a disharmonious reaction to alcohol or any popular drug. But that doesn't belie the fact that legions of semi-professional or journeyman musicians have composed material or turned in stellar performances while stoned that they were simply unable to achieve without it. And many pros have had the same experience.

    Some of the stories about LSD have attained the status of urban myths. Falling is one of the major causes of death in America; it's a far greater risk to our mortality than terrorism. As you read this a perfectly sober moron is sitting on a roof somewhere wondering whether he can fly, and morons should probably be deterred by their friends from experimenting with drugs.

    And don't forget the contribution to the statistics of our oldest and most beloved psychoactive drug: alcohol. Much of the errant behavior attributed to illegal drugs can be just as convincingly blamed on the alcohol that people consume at the same time, without a thought for unpredictable interactions.
     

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