Friend is being brainwashed by Quixstar/Amway. HELP!

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Xerxes, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    3,830
    One of my long time friends is being sucked in to this scam. He is exhibiting all of the classical symptoms
    -spending all of his time on the 'business'
    -calling friends/family negative, wierd, etc
    -says he loves being around 'winners' at the meeting. It gives him confidence

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    I have tried explaining how the scam works, but he is unwilling to listen. Worst part is, he was sucked in by his roomate from real work who has basically 24hrs a day to brainwash and be brainwashed in return.

    This guy has had shitty parents and worked real hard to get where he is, and I can't bear to see these parasite fuckers ruin his life by holding a carrot over his head. What can a friend do?
     
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  3. PDH50 Registered Member

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    Yeah this scam is going to do some real damage to your freind. you need to find a way of removing him from this poison quickly as it is going to take his money, and possibly get him into some trouble

    im sorry i cant help more but im not too sure how to get him out of this before he loses everything
     
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  5. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Explain to us this scam, I've never heard of it.
     
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  7. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe if you give him more information he will see the 'business' differently. The following link has much information about quixtar and includes a transcript from a Dateline special exposing the company's method.

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/
     
  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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  9. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    9,072
    1. They brainwash people into believing they are a new type of business that has never been done before.
    2. They brainwash stupid people that know nothing about business into thinking what they will learn business from them.
    3. They brainwash people into thinking they are working themselves.
    4. They brainwash people into beliveing their products are high quality.
    5. The brain wash people into purchasing these products, and going out and selling them.
    6. They brainwash people into recruiting more sales staff on the basis that they can sit around, and do nothing making pure commission off of them.
    7. Most of all, they brainwash people into claiming anybody against them is being negative and pessemistic about their success.
    8. They brainwash people into thinking they are managers, then tell you not to talk about it to anybody because you might give them wrong information. Any new recruits have to be sent straight to the office to experience the brainwashing program.


    On the contrary, anybody can be very successful provided they are running their business well. What people do not know is that they can set up their own business, deal with a supplier, and sell their own goods without dealing with these pyramid scams.

    Most of the people that work for these pyramids are nonbusiness wacks. They know nothing about business. They have no clue how to start a business, run a business, or what a business is. These ignorant mofos are lead to believe they will be learning about business etc.

    Do not deal with them. Do not deal with anybody offering a lucrative business program. Their job is to sell you the business program. If their business was lucrative, they would not be in the business of selling you business programs. Moreover, selling you business programs about how to start a lucrative business in selling lucrative business programs.
     
  10. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    10,342
    I's simple, tell him to go round the house of whoever is above him in the pyramid. Tell him, if he works as long hours and as hard as they do, he'll probably be driving the shitty car parked outside in five years.
     
  11. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    2,238
    Surely you can solve this with math.

    If 1 person had to recruit just 6 people to be doing well and those 6 people have to recuit 6 people and so on. If you take this chain just 10 stages then you would need 60466176 people. Amway has been going for many years I am sure that stage 10 would have been passed many years ago if it really worked. Even to say it is only at stage 12 it would come out at 2.17678234e+09 people needed. I think you will find that this is more people than are on the earth. Amway can never work just tell him to do the maths.

    I know people who have been in the same position as your friend it become a way of life for these people. The business does work for the few at the very top who joined or set up the company years ago. But for people joining now it's just a self perpetuating con.
     
  12. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Surely there must be an online forum of Amway victims?
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Sadly, it's akin to a religion to those involved, and 'doing the maths' is just being a naysayer, and bordering on heresy. Trust me, I've 'done the maths' at an Amway seller, and it fell on stony ground.

    This guy tried to do a sell up job on a friend of my girlfriend. Now, not being daft, said friend of gf asked us round to watch his presentation about 'Network Sales'. I sat, I took notes, I did the maths, and I asked him what the population of our town was. He answered, and I pointed out that he couldn't get beyond level 4 in this town, if he was at the top of the pyramid, because there weren't enough people to be staff, let alone customers. Of course, he wasn't top of the pyramid, he was somebody elses bitch, and if he only wanted six customers, how much profit would he make (that was an entire layer deleted). Basically, I showed him that with 100% market saturation of his products (impossible) he'd never make a living wage at the level he was at, and that he had nowhere else to go. His last words to me as he left 'well, if you reconsider, you have my details'. He just didn't understand the maths. They sure do pick the right recruits for this shit.
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Do you wish to take away his freedom to make his own choices? Why?

    He's made his choice, you've tried to explain, he hasn't listened.

    The next step is to force him to change his mind ....or shoot him, perhaps? Use drugs? Tie him up and keep him under lock and key? Hang him? Cut out the "free will" part of his brain?

    Baron Max
     
  15. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    I assume he cares about his friend.
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, apparently cares enough to try to take away his right to choose for himself! Is that very nice?

    Baron Max
     
  17. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    How is he taking away his right? The guy would have to make up his own mind up ultimately.
     
  18. geodesic "The truth shall make ye fret" Registered Senior Member

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    Firstly, no-one but you is talking about forcing anyone. Don't go for a false dilemma, it's a cheap tactic.
    Secondly, if he lived by himself, it would be one thing, but if he has a family who are dependent upon his income, then they are at risk from his poor decisions, and we should at least try and help those who are blameless in this.
     
  19. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    The guy said he's tried to help, tried to explain the situation, and apparently from his post, he's tried everything to the point of coming here to ask for more help. I can only take that kind of attitude as him trying to reverse-brainwash the guy! And I don't think that's very nice, regardless of the situation.

    Baron Max
     
  20. geodesic "The truth shall make ye fret" Registered Senior Member

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    You can't very well claim that he's brainwashed and has freedom of choice, as the brainwashing significantly affects his ability to make rational judgements. And while it may not be very nice in your opinion to try and help him to make a rational decision, you're assuming that he chose to be brainwashed. If the brainwashing was not his choice, then he deserves help, wouldn't you say?

    Overriding all this of course, is the fact that you seem to place one man's 'freedom' over the concerns of his family - don't you feel that their many needs outweigh his sole need?
     
  21. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Ahh, so you're taking that as a scientific fact that he's been actually and truly "brainwashed"?? I just took it as a sensationalistic term so as to make his point.

    If that's the cases, and there's scientific evidence, then I agree with you.

    Hmm, isn't the bigger problem ....who makes that determination? If we go with the man's freedoms, then his family could suffer. But if we go with the family's needs, then we're effectively taking away the man's freedoms. Interesting dilemma, huh?

    But I have to go with the man's freedom ...because he AND the woman both made their free choices ...so we have to assume that she knew and was willing to accept the consequences of her actions. Yep, gotta' go with the man's freedoms first.

    Baron Max
     
  22. geodesic "The truth shall make ye fret" Registered Senior Member

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    However, children in the family would not have made a choice.

    So men who beat their wives shouldn't be punished?
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't there a Simpson's episode about this? Maybe you can find it and show him.
     

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