View Full Version : What make us human beings!?!?
TruthSeeker
02-01-02, 04:23 PM
What make us human beings? Our opposing thumb?... :P Our superior telencephalon?!?... :P Not really...!
Once that was a Phylosopher who said:
I think, therefore I exist.
Is this true? We only exist because we think? We are superior because we think? Where our thoughts led us? To wars, corruption, intrigues, confusion... is this what we really want?
Do you know what make ourselves and our world? Our thoghts. What we think is undoubtely reflected in the world. What we are doing with ourselves?!? Why so much hate? Everything in name of the knowledge and Science? This can be easily seen in the thread about supernovae explosions in laboratories.
Kids, we are human beings because we Love, not because we think!! Learn that!! What is more important for you, your knowledge, your believes, your Science... or your Lives?
Love yourselves and find the True Wisdom: Hapiness.
Blessings,
Nelson
iced_earth
02-01-02, 04:40 PM
i dont want to seem like an arse , but im sure its
" i think, there for i am"
if not then sorry my fault.
What use would be of love if you couldn't think????
The process of advanced thinking (compared to bacteria) is the most important. With thinking we decide which is right and wrong(smtimes errorus though;)) , if we couldn't think we would have been destroyed long long ago.
I do not say tht we are superior, because we think, but we aren't superior either of because we love. My dog loves me. Animals love. we are animals who love and think. only with exception tht we destroy and kill with our love and thoughts, we evolve and progress with our thoughts and love.
BTW, I would place love as a subcategory to thinking.
TruthSeeker
02-02-02, 02:31 PM
iced-earth:
I'm not sure either. But the meaning is the same anyways. I just did the traduction from my language. I've never read it in yours.
Avatar:
Love and thinking are two completely different things. You don't need to think, to Love. You can just Love and this is enough. Love is much simpler than you can imagine.
With thinking we decide which is right and wrong(smtimes errorus though) , if we couldn't think we would have been destroyed long long ago.
This right and wrong it's what makes you confused, for it leads you to a Dualist world.
This is strange... it was thinking that in the Cold War, Cuba accepted to install missiles in its terrain, and what almost begun a thrid war. And it was thinking that we began all the World Wars. It seems that your statement is very untrue... We almost destroyed ourselves because we think.
It's true that other living beings Loves. But we have the capacity (Even though it seems that not, with what I saw here...), we have the capacity to Love our enemies. And this is what make someone wise or not. Animals can't Love their enemies... they can eat them...!! :P
we destroy and kill with our love and thoughts, we evolve and progress with our thoughts and love.
Anyone never kill with Love. But, yes, kill with thoughts. Love is the perfect (like it said in 1Corinthians 13). We don't need to evolve and to progress if we Love. But, yes, we need very much if we think. This proves everything that I ever said. Thanks!! :D
P.S.:
I would place love as a subcategory to thinking
It's even logical that after what I said above, you are completely wrong about this statement. Love is perfect. Thinking is just an stupid action that leads to confusion. As Albert Einstein (Scientist...!! :))said:
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithul servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
Blessings,
Nelson
Love and thinking are two completely different things. You don't need to think, to Love. You can just Love and this is enough. Love is much simpler than you can imagine.
You think tht you do not think when you run from a burglar, or when you are sitting with "no thoughts" in your mind. Heard smthing of subconsciousness???
You do not love to kill (I think), but why, because you think tht killing is a bad thing.
It's true that other living beings Loves. But we have the capacity (Even though it seems that not, with what I saw here...), we have the capacity to Love our enemies. And this is what make someone wise or not. Animals can't Love their enemies... they can eat them...!! :P
Why love our enemies. That is stupid. Will you love a person which kills all your family and fucks with your dog? And later takes your skin off?? You talk unlogical.
Anyone never kill with Love. But, yes, kill with thoughts. Love is the perfect (like it said in 1Corinthians 13). We don't need to evolve and to progress if we Love. But, yes, we need very much if we think. This proves everything that I ever said. Thanks!!
You kill with your love. Jack the ripper loved to kill:D, he loved his victims being helpless. :D:D:D
okokok, I don't put the upper fact in much of a value.
TruthSeeker
02-02-02, 04:18 PM
It's said the reality that there are many people in the world that thinks like you... It's why we live in a world like this...
Everything I can tell you now is the Word:
Matthew 6:43-48
43 There is a saying, 'Love your friends an hate your enemies."
44 But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!
45 In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too.
46 If you love only those who love you, how good is that? Even scoundrels do that much.
47 I you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that.
48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Love is a sign of perfection.
Blessings,
Nelson
It's why we live in a world like this...
WE LIVE IN A BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL WORLD!
Even the heathen do that.
hmmm, the author has smthing against heathens.
I try to be friendly to everyone, but if tht turns out to be an enemy of mine-> no way I'm a friend to him.
TruthSeeker
02-02-02, 04:52 PM
Beautiful world, with lots of violence... Just read a newspaper!!
Heathen there means ignorant...
YES, beautiful world with lots of violence. But would it be beautiful without it. I dare not to experiment on this. And your god itself is violet, read Exodus.
TruthSeeker
02-02-02, 05:43 PM
You destroyed one of your own affirmations...
violet...?
You are crazy...
????
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
You destroyed one of your own affirmations...
violet...?
You are crazy...
????
you understood wht I meant-VIOLENT,
misswrited, big deal, but you have to think tht by tht I ment violent not violet. you can not understand tht with love as much as you try.
what else affirmations have I destroyed?
kinamic
02-02-02, 08:49 PM
Yes it is true, war, violence.. All that would be gone if everyone loved everyone(how boring!). However, it's impossible. Humanity can't do it. There is to much sin, violence, and low self esteem.
TruthSeeker: Doesn't the Bible say that you "have" to admit to being a sinner and that you do wrong before you can enter heaven or whatever? Well, doing wrong and being a sinner doesn't have anything to do with love, does it?
TruthSeeker
02-03-02, 12:02 AM
Kinamic,
Read those things in the Bible:
1 Corinthians 13
Matthew 6:43-47
I'm pretty sure that you'll understand if you are Christian. If you are not, good luck...
Another thing. Have hope to change the world. Anything is impossible.
To Avatar,
You wrote "violet" in your post... You caused the confusion...
When I said: "Beautiful world, with lots of violence... Just read a newspaper!!" I meant that our world have lots of violence, and this doesn't make it less beautiful. You understood wrong. Everyone understood besides you (ate least Kinamic...).
Blessings,
Nelson
ok, so I misunderstood you, but I still think tht your "all world in love" idea is utopic and not appealing to human nature.
Bye!
Our ability to rationalize our blood-lust!
We always have a 'rational', at least to the individual committing the act,
reason for killing others of our species.
A uniquely 'human' attribute.
Take care ;)
TruthSeeker
02-03-02, 07:07 PM
Avatar,
Believe, and you shall receive. Don't you want the better for you and for all those who you Love? So believe! Have hope! If you don't even believe on it, do you think you will have it?If you don't believe, you are a blind trying to read!
You deserve happiness and it is why you'll have it. Follow my teachings here, in my signature, and look for my next post: "The Secret of Happiness and Success". Remember this:
"If everyone could pass a message of Love and Compassion to the world, words such as Utopia would never exist."
Nelson
Chagur,
You got it... ;)
Take care!
Many Blessings,
Nelson
I am satisfied with my life and need no more of your or anybodies love, thus I do not need to receive anything -> I do not need to hope. If I want smthing I work on it, n-thing can be achieved with yust a hope. I follow my own teachings and find them optional and appropriate.
Cheers!
Yes, 'think' indeed make us human being.
There are 3 things 'drives' living things to their acts:
1) instinc / nature law,
2) passion,
3) and THINK
Simple lifeform as bacteria and trees only based on it's instinc/nature law to grow and breed. They don't think, not even have a passion.
More complex lifeform as animal have instinc AND passion. Both of those cause them act. Do you think smartest animal: chimpanse thinking? actualy not. They just 'monkey see monkey doo'. No matter how smart chimp are, they'll back to their natureafter several generation in the jungle.
Human being have all three of those. Our 'thinking' make us different. Human being who use his passion more than his thought to decide what he do, no better than animal. Mother fucker (sorry) is animal, not human being.
TruthSeeker
02-04-02, 11:47 PM
Avatar,
I can't change beliefs. I can only tell you those things, but if you belive or not thats up to you. It's your beliefs...
ismu,
There is intuition too. Look for Albert Einsten's quotes... :)
One example:
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."
Albert Einstein
I can't reply anymore. I will have to stop replying for some days. I've come back to school and hardly have time to rest (as usual...).
So, please, don't reply it, at least until weekend.
Blessings,
Nelson
truthseeker,
It is good you are looking to Einstein for more rational guidance in your life.
Here are some more quotes for you to consider –
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It
You would do worse than to follow in the footsteps of Einstein and make an effort to learn to use logic, reason, and the scientific method. In that way you might find the real truth that you claim to seek rather than the imagined truth that you have been preaching here.
Cris
Counterbalance
02-05-02, 01:25 AM
Quote # 3... one of my favs.
Thx, Cris.
TruthSeeker
02-06-02, 12:18 AM
Einstein was wrong in some things.
One example that I got from the book: Galaxies and Quasars by William J. Kaufmann
"Although he had a more accurate theory of gravity, Einstein was frustaded in his attemptes to construct mathematical models of the universe. No one had any suspicion of large-scale motions in the universe, so Einstein labored to formulate static models. His efforts met with failure; his mathematical universes would always collapse. Instead of having faith in his calculations (his formulas were really telling him that we do not live in a static universe), Einstein began to doubt the validity of his equations. Accordingly, he added to his equations a special number, called the cosmologic constant, that would prevent his static universe from collapsing. This cosmological constant represents a long-range cosmic force (not detectable over short distances in a laboratory) that litterally holds the universe up.
By forcing his models of the universe to be static, Einstein missed the opportunity to anticipate Hubble's discovery by at least a decade. By 1929, it was clear that we really live in an expanding universe. No wonder static models never seemed to work out. In later years, Einstein lamented that including the cosmological constant in the basic field equations of general relativety was "the biggest mistake of my life"."
Galaxies and Quasars by William J. Kaufmann pages 116,117
Of course Einstein was brilliant, but anyone can be right everytime. It's interesting to see how a religious word here (faith) is applyed to scientific matters...
This is the exact opposite of Aristoteles ideas about the Earth as the center of the universe. The difference, is that Aristoteles' religious beliefs made him do his mistake, and Einstein's scientifical beliefs made him do his. If Einsteins believed in Religion, he would have accepted the idea of an expanding universe. But he though the universe as a perfect mathematical static thing, which is very scientifical.
It's like his thoughs about black holes. People in those days would say that black holes are pure imagination. They would blame our beliefs. And this is the source of all the discussions of the world. Everyone has their own beliefs and want to make it true to others.
But as you grow up, your beliefs become more self-centered (not in a selfish way. I mean in a more awareness about yourself and your place in the world). They start to explain your life related to yourself and not yourself related to your car, or money, for example. You become self-aware as you grow up.
THIS IS WHAT I MEANT FOR THIS THREAD.
What makes us human beings, is our self-awareness, our self-conscience.
This is what Religion call God, Spirit and Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is th first. Is the "comforter" as we, Christians calls. Is our growing up awareness. Spirit follows. Is our biggest self-awareness. Your deepest qualties that you never realized that you had. God is the biggest "self"-awareness. You become aware of yourself related to other people.
As you can see, Religion is more self-centered and self related. And it bases you in life principles such as Simplicity, Honestity, Generosity, Compassion and Humility. As you grow up centering your lifes with this principles, you become more aware about yourself and how you relate yourself with other people and with your life.
If Einstein had seeked the Truth within him, he would never had mistaken. But he had contact with Religion too, and this is proved by his talks about Intuition, which is a very Religious-related thing. That time, he didn't followed it. And that time, he was mistaken.
This is the Wisdom of Religion. It seeks Truth within ourselves. And wherelse It should be?
Blessings,
Nelson (TruthSeeker...!!! :))
I hate to be the shallow one... but what makes us human is the fact that we can't breed with apes.
We also do seem to be the most cognitively advanced creatures on this particular planet (although a dolphin might disagree)... but that's just an attribute most humans have (and the severely mentally retarded are still human even if they lack this attribute and are actually dumber than a chimp).
We love to look for what makes us unique, and then we decide those things must be important since we like to think we're important. In reality, we're well below insects and bacteria and single celled creatures when it comes to dominance on the planet. They're still better adapted as species to life here than we are.
Originally posted by Hoth
Blah... blah... blah... In reality, we're well below insects and bacteria and single celled creatures when it comes to dominance on the planet. They're still better adapted as species to life here than we are.
That's a mess up! If you think there a kind of insect which can survive on the mountains, dessert, river, ocean to arctic, just name 1! Human can, just because we use our thought to make tools to survive. Other creatures on earth is provided for us as our servant, unverse is provided as evidence for us to learn.
If you have faith, we're montioned by God to live on earth to be leader on earth, as His ambassador. We were given authority, duty, freedom, responsibility, and intelligence as tool to manage our earth. Earth may become bautiful or ruined depends on human decision. We can blow up the whole earth right away by tenth of nuclear bombs, if we insane enough to speed up the doomday. That's the fact. We're blessed a super weapon which no other creature have: mind, a tought, an intelligence! Self-awareness and self-consciousnes is one of results of our tought!, as a result of intelligence, not as a prime cause which make us human being.
Alas, being dominance on the planet is not a sign of leadership. Animal nature, such as wild passion which distract our decision to act will lowering our humanity. Being wise, use intelligence to conquer wild passion and selfish desire, and to believe on Unseen Mighty by learning evidence of universe, is an objective: Are we appropriate to be titled as human being, or only worth as smartest animal on earth...
Originally posted by ismu
That's a mess up! If you think there a kind of insect which can survive on the mountains, dessert, river, ocean to arctic, just name 1! Human can, just because we use our thought to make tools to survive. Other creatures on earth is provided for us as our servant, unverse is provided as evidence for us to learn.
You know, humans cannot exist without bacteria. If you take all the bacteria out of out bodies, we die. Bacteria lives and reproduces at amazing rates in every environment from Antarctic cold to temperatures above the boiling point. So, they're certainly a lot better evolutionarily adapted than we are. We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.
you take all the bacteria out of out bodies, we die.
As i mentioned: Other creatures on earth is provided for us as our servant, including to work inside our body.
Bacteria lives and reproduces at amazing rates in every environment from Antarctic cold to temperatures above the boiling point.
Name one bacteria can live in boling point more than 10 minutes! If you can.
Some viruses can, but virus must live in other live form. I'ts 'crystalyzed' itsef outside living cell. But i'ts gonna fried into fire.
Human can get into the fire! by wearing fire-proof suit he created as result of Intelligence!
We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.
Whose in charge then?
Btw, winning in survival is not sign of humanity. Dead people who leave wonderful thought still remebered as wise human being.
Originally posted by ismu
We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.
Whose in charge then?
Since we don't have the capability of making bacteria extinct, every hydrogen bomb in the world detonated at once would hardly even make any dent in their population, it seems it's not us in charge.
Who's in charge? No one really if you ask me, the universe doesn't need a babysitter to be in charge of it (it's old enough now), but I guess you could say the planet is in charge in that case since it'd not support our life anymore if we did such a thing to it.
Originally posted by ismu
Btw, winning in survival is not sign of humanity. Dead people who leave wonderful thought still remebered as wise human being.
I agree, actually I dislike how people sometimes talk about evolution (survival as a species) as a process towards achieving perfection. Evolution doesn't care what it results in, it's meaningless, it's just observation of patterns of life over time and shouldn't have value attached to its results. Also it's a common misconception that it's "survival of the fittest" when it's actually just survival of the fit.
Anyhow, your perspective on what makes people human makes sense given the premis of an all-powerful being who declared us to be in charge. That's fine, but without that premis the distinctions between human and animal wouldn't be as obvious as they might seem. For example some animals show evidence of intelligence (ability to innovate), and there's no secular reason to assume they don't have minds and don't think.
orthogonal
02-15-02, 06:01 AM
...humans cannot exist without bacteria.
An excellent point Hoth! We have more "things" living either in or on our body than there are humans on this planet. Also, as the biologist E.O. Wilson likes to point out, by body weight ants are cumulatively the predominant species on this planet.
Michael
Since we don't have the capability of making bacteria extinct, every hydrogen bomb in the world detonated at once would hardly even make any dent in their population, it seems it's not us in charge.
Yes, we have capability. We can build enough bomb if we want to. Did you heard about device which can be tuned up to sepecific frequency that can kill specified bacteria without harming human itself? But by making bacteria extinct it will also kill all of us. So it doesn't necessary to do. That's one of our result of intelligent decicion to survive.
We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.
Whose in charge then?
You misundersand with this. I mean we still in charge! We can do anything with this bacteria, and it can refuse to be sent.
For example some animals show evidence of intelligence (ability to innovate), and there's no secular reason to assume they don't have minds and don't think.
In the technical context, yes. Intelligence is ability to process information, and create decisions as it's results.
In bilogical context, Yes. The difference of human and apes is just because we can't make babies with it.
But in philosophical context, No.
Intelligence wich is worth to called as human intelligence is intelligence wich able to control passion, and instink, and natural behaviour.
Have you read my post in 1st page? I also talk about it in this thread (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&goto=lastpost&threadid=4927) .
bye.
Planitia fleetyards, Mars.
The world where everyone loves everyone. How I would hate it.
Imagine a world populated with Ned Flanders.
Every day would be just like the last. It would be pretty much the same as being in captivity. No human generated troubles to overcome. No ambition in case we hurt someone in the process.
No goals. No truth. No absolute honesty.
Without evil, there can be no good.
Does it not follow that without hate there can be no love?
I am in no way a misanthropist. Just a realist.
I think, therefor I am
Isn't this because I am thinking, I must be?
Or another version:
I'm pink. Therefore I'm spam
Human is as Human does.
Just as an observation, I'd call "I think, therefore I am" bad logic. By saying "I think" the conclusion has already been assumed before proving it. Using your conclusion to draw your conclusion doesn't get you anywhere, it's pointless. I'd rephrase it to something more along these lines: There are thoughts being directly observed/experienced, therefore there is something observing the thoughts, and that logically existing something may be defined as the self.
Ismu, "able to control passion, and intinct, and natural behaviour" would be pretty hard to prove to exist in humans if you were an alien race looking in from the outside and were presuming your superiority as you looked. Anything at all can be termed "natural behaviour" if you take a deterministic approach. You can't say you did something unnatural if that particular thought and action were simply caused by various complex physical factors going back to the big bang. I would say we should be more consistent and if we don't apply determinism to ourself it's a mistake to apply it to animals. You may just be ignoring the unnatural behavior of animals because you automatically assume it's determinstic and therefore naturally caused for them.
Dolphins and chimps seem to have advanced mental capacity, I'd guess they may only differ from us by degree.
Originally posted by esp
Human is as Human does.
I agree with this. Good shoot, esp ;) . Perhaps i've been mistaken 'human' with 'humanity'. Btw, we still can call a human with no humanity is a living meat isn't it? :D :D
TruthSeeker
02-15-02, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by esp
Imagine a world populated with Ned Flanders.
Yeah... that would be really bad...
Without evil, there can be no good.
That's true...
But the Truth creates peace.
And Truth, Love, Harmony and Wisdom are pretty much the same thing.
Wouldn't be nice live in peace and Love?
Live within Truth is live in peace, and without boredom. The power of Truth is so great that all possibilities in the Universe happens at the same place and in the same time.
I think, therefore I am
Don't stop thinking or you'll die! :D
Just joking...
Thinking is not so important. You exist because you breath, not because you think. And you exist because your heart beats according to your brain (autonomic sytem, not because of your thinking). Imagine with you start to run. Won't you heart automatically beats faster?
Is not your thinking that makes you exist, but your own desire to be a living being (If you want, you can kill yourself, but I'm sure you won't)... :p
I would say...
I feel, therefore I am.
Blessings,
Nelson
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.