New Linux User [Archive]

Athelwulf

05-31-06, 04:11 AM

Well, not yet, technically. But I will be very soon. I got the CDs from vslayer in the mail today (finally!). Tomorrow, I'll be setting up a dual-boot system: Windows XP Home and Linux Mandriva 2005.

I'm a Windows native. I've had experience with Mac OS 9-ish and have very briefly messed with OS X recently. But this will be the first time I've ever even touched a Linux. I have a passing knowledge of computers – that's to say, I can use one pretty well, perhaps better than some others, but I don't really know the fine intricacies.

I'm using this thread, first of all, to announce the news; second of all, to post about any problems I may have while learning to use Linux; and last of all, to get any tips and insight anyone here might have concerning Linux, dual-boot systems, whatever.

Wish me luck. :D

leopold

05-31-06, 04:35 AM

Athelwulf

05-31-06, 04:42 AM

good luck man !
i will also be interested in your pursuit of the linux dream for i too have been giving some thoughts about trying it out.

i am particuarly interested in your video and sound drivers
do you have a seperate video and sound card or are they integrated into your motherboard?

i am also interested in any problems you might have in playing directx compatible games such as doom and unreal tournament

also does linux support usb devices

edit
i forgot to ask but whats your proccessor? intel? amd?
what model 386? 486?
what windows version you running now?
*whoosh*

EDIT: Haha. I couldn't resist.

Tell ya what: Tell me how to find out half of that shit, and I'll go find it out for you. :p All I can really tell you is what the computer tells me in the Properties menu of the computer itself. Here's what I currently have:

Windows XP Professional, Version 2002, Service Pack 1
AMD Athlon XP 2200+
1.79GHz
224MB RAM (planning on upgrading soon)
76.2GB harddrive

leopold

05-31-06, 06:04 AM

*whoosh*

sorry.
let me explain
if your video and sound card is integrated into your mobo (motherboard) everything will plug in down one side of the computer

on the other hand if they are seperate then they will occupy one of your expansion slots

did you install windows yourself?
if you did then another way to tell if the video and sound card is integrated is if you had to install the drivers seperatly from windows.

Athelwulf

06-01-06, 09:21 PM

Sorry guys, my installation of Linux has to be postponed. When I put the first Linux disk into the disk drive and get the install screen, the link that allows me to install will not respond to my mouse click. I have no idea if it's related to the other problems I have with the computer now that I have a new Windows on it.

My two problems that I've discovered are that I cannot connect to the Internet and there is no audio. The Internet people can probably help us connect, but until then I can only use the Internet at school and at the library. As for the audio, there is no audio device installed, according to the computer. The computer is utterly incapable of producing sound other than a mechanical beep that comes from the computer tower.

I have a feeling I didn't install the new Windows quite properly. Two things that I did stick out in my mind which could be factors in this:
:- I had the file system converted from the original FAT32 to NTFS. A guy at Staples who claims to know a lot about different OSs said that NTFS was the best to use if I were to put Mandrake on the computer; during the Windows installation process, however, it recommended FAT for that.
:- The hard drive may not have been completely written over. The computer recognizes input from my wireless mouse, which one has to install otherwise. There may still be old files on my computer.

I greatly appreciate any help you can give me. If you need more information, ask and you shall be answered (eventually).

domesticated om

06-01-06, 09:30 PM

The majority of my recent linux experiences have been with Fedora core.

Are you attempting to install mandrake and Xp home on the same partition?

leopold

06-01-06, 09:41 PM

Sorry guys, my installation of Linux has to be postponed. When I put the first Linux disk into the disk drive and get the install screen, the link that allows me to install will not respond to my mouse click.

to install a OS on a dual boot computer you need to INSTALL FROM DOS ie the command line. a mouse will not work in dos unless the drivers are loaded from your autoexec.bat file

also you must remember that i have never installed or used linux so these things might not apply

put your first linux disc into your cd drive
shut down the computer
restart the computer
to manuver around the menus in dos you must use the tab and arrow keys

leopold

06-01-06, 09:51 PM

My two problems that I've discovered are that I cannot connect to the Internet and there is no audio. The Internet people can probably help us connect, but until then I can only use the Internet at school and at the library. As for the audio, there is no audio device installed, according to the computer. The computer is utterly incapable of producing sound other than a mechanical beep that comes from the computer tower.

the most probable cause of this is there are no drivers intalled
locate your modem and audio card discs and follow this procedure

put the modem disc into you cd drive
if it starts to run a program close it
manuver to control panel and open system
look for your modem and remove it
click on refresh
at this point the computer will find new hardware and look for the drivers
a dialog will open asking you for the files to install the modem
point it to your cd drive
after the files are installed you might have to restart your machine

follow the same procedure for your sound card except put the audio drivers disc in the drive.
when you get to system remove the sound card
the rest of the procedure is the same

Bauer Team 2

06-02-06, 11:14 AM

Madinina team

06-02-06, 11:27 AM

Good evening!!

For your sound and internet problems, we are not experienced enough to have an answer. We have tested during two weeks the fedora core, mandrake and a unbountu version. Linux seems to be based on command lines with an OS such as ms-dos (unix) script :D . We installed also windows XP, 2000 and 2003 server and everything started properlly, but we have installed all on a formated disque. :m:

We are based in martinique and send some sun from here :cool:
bye!!

da_real_didoodle

06-02-06, 11:32 AM

Dear, Athelwulf

I read your message and I am myself a neophyte linux's administrator.
I have just finished an intensive training period on Ubuntu 6.06the last distribution of linux from South Africa. :D
If you have any questions on the matter, please contact me.
I come from the French West Indies :cool: more precisely from Martinique :m: , and I wish to have some contacts over the World.

Frindly yours
Da_Real_DiDoodle

Athelwulf

06-02-06, 12:25 PM

Whoa... It looks like I attracted (almost) spammers. :bugeye:

I have an update concerning my Linux: I messed around with the computer to see if a work-around to installing was possible. The disk claimed to be bootable, but it wouldn't boot when I restarted the computer; it wouldn't even give me the option of booting. But what I did was hit the Tab button at the very beginning of the restart, before Windows was loaded, and it gave me this menu. I changed a few options which I thought might do something for me, and it worked: I got the Linux CD to start installing. I made it partition the disk – 45% for Windows, 45% for Linux, and 10% for a swap partition. It seemed to be doing everything smoothly from then on.

But now there's a new problem: It got to the fifth and final disk, and then at four minutes remaining, it just stopped installing altogether. Nothing on the screen changed – it was still "installing". It's like it froze. I pressed the eject button on the CD drive, but it didn't eject the CD. I forced an eject and turned off the computer. I restarted, but it didn't give me the option of booting into Linux. Apparently, I have to do it over.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate computers intensely?

Athelwulf

06-02-06, 12:36 PM

Are you attempting to install mandrake and Xp home on the same partition?
The Linux CD let me make separate partitions, which I did. So no.

to install a OS on a dual boot computer you need to INSTALL FROM DOS ie the command line. a mouse will not work in dos unless the drivers are loaded from your autoexec.bat file
It wasn't in DOS. The CD gave me a GUI install screen when I put it in. The three buttons on the left simply do not respond to my mouse click. The three buttons on the right (which do nothing useful for me since I have no Internet connection) do respond.

put your first linux disc into your cd drive
shut down the computer
restart the computer
to manuver around the menus in dos you must use the tab and arrow keys
I managed to get into some sort of menu, which I explained in my last post. It didn't seem like DOS, though it's not like I'd recognize it. It didn't give me a way to get to the install CD and do the install that way. So um, do you know how to get into DOS and do that?

leopold

06-02-06, 03:01 PM

But now there's a new problem: It got to the fifth and final disk, and then at four minutes remaining, it just stopped installing altogether. Nothing on the screen changed – it was still "installing". It's like it froze. I pressed the eject button on the CD drive, but it didn't eject the CD. I forced an eject and turned off the computer. I restarted, but it didn't give me the option of booting into Linux. Apparently, I have to do it over.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate computers intensely?
the most probable cause would be you ran out of hard drive space.

another reason could be you have a defective cd disc or maybe a defective cd drive

leopold

06-02-06, 03:07 PM

I managed to get into some sort of menu, which I explained in my last post. It didn't seem like DOS, though it's not like I'd recognize it. It didn't give me a way to get to the install CD and do the install that way. So um, do you know how to get into DOS and do that?
your 3 "spammer" friends would be able to help you immensly.
i have never used linux so i am afraid to give any advice on it.

Fafnir665

06-02-06, 03:12 PM

Ha, on a 76ish gig drive? Not likely. 5 disc install for linux, including compiling and linking/etc shouldnt take more than 10 - 15 gigs, and only if you install EVERYTHING. That leaves like 15 - 25 gigs open.

You should look at a more user-friendly distro for your first install. The best at that are Novell, aka Suse Linux. Heres a link for their newest distro -Suse Linux (http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/). Those guys at novell get paid to do it right.. ;)

Fafnir665

06-02-06, 03:14 PM

Ew, I just read that Mandriva is Mandrake with a new name.

Fafnir665

06-02-06, 03:15 PM

And, an "Oh my bad."

Latest free version - http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org

HA, i'll evdit this one now... Cool thing about suse is that you can download the CD or DVD, or do an Inet install, so you only download what you want. Plus it has this thing called "YAST" which lets you download an install more things. When you get comfortable with linux I'll let you know about the pimpest distro ever ;)

Athelwulf

06-02-06, 04:15 PM

the most probable cause would be you ran out of hard drive space.

another reason could be you have a defective cd disc or maybe a defective cd drive
Only half the hard drive has been filled up. So it can't be that. I'll be trying to install again today, and if it doesn't work, then the computer will probably be taken to Staples so things can be fixed.

your 3 "spammer" friends would be able to help you immensly.
i have never used linux so i am afraid to give any advice on it.
They might, though it seems suspicious that three of them just happened to register today, only to tell me about Linux and offer their help.

That aside, I realize you can't help me on Linux, but that's okay.

leopold

06-02-06, 04:21 PM

Ha, on a 76ish gig drive?
doh! yeah not likely at all that you ran out of disc space

he said he partitioned his drive into 3 parts
i wonder if he installed on the correct partition?

i've read some stuff about linux. whats this i hear about live cd?
its supposed to be all you need to run linux from a cd. you don't need to install anything.

Avatar

06-02-06, 05:02 PM

A good live cd is KANOTIX
and, if you like it, you can install it on hard drive too. It installs an almost pure Debian system.
Kanotix is a very good choice if you want to install Linux on a laptop too.

http://kanotix.com/

Voodoo Child

06-02-06, 09:36 PM

Knoppix or Ubuntu are ext. good for newbies. Both have live CDs and are easy to set up. Ubuntu will actually send you the CDs free of charge. A new version of Ubuntu has just come out, so I'd get that.

Avatar

06-03-06, 03:56 AM

Actually Kanotix is way better for newbies than Knoppix, it has a cleaner look and its' menus are not that crowded with obscure utilities.

p.s. imo, Ubuntu goes the wrong way, but it's a dirty discussion in which I don't want to participate.

Voodoo Child

06-03-06, 11:21 PM

I find that Knoppix installs way better than Kanotix, which is the most important thing for a new-to-linux user. I don't really see much of a difference between the two in terms of usability.

Athelwulf

06-04-06, 12:12 AM

Computer update!

Okay, yesterday (Friday), I went to the Internet place and talked to them about not being able to get online. They said there was most likely no driver for the modem installed. They also said that was probably the case with my sound card as well. So the computer was taken to Staples to fix these problems. Staples directed me to this guy in town who does computer support, because apparently they doesn't have technical support anymore.

The guy I went to worked wonders on the computer. He installed the necessary drivers off a disk in about twenty minutes. I had Internet and audio capabilities again! He even gave me the disk. :D What's more, he gave me a set of Linux CDs, Mandrake 10.0, for me to try out on the computer, since I was having trouble with the set I already had, Mandriva 2005. It installed easier and more quickly.

I am liking Linux.

I've figured out about an hour ago (correct me if I'm wrong) that Mandriva 2005 is a bit newer than Mandrake 10.0, so I think I could do an upgrade with the CDs I got from vslayer. I'll be doing that in just a bit. Afterwards, I need to find another driver I can install for the modem, so I can connect to the Internet through Linux too.

That's about all for now.

UPDATE: I upgraded. It went through the whole process pretty cleanly. But now I have a new problem. When I try to boot into Linux, just after it lets you choose what account to sign in to, it sits there with its hourglass, "loading" Linux. It sits there forever and makes no progress. What could be the cause of this?

Avatar

06-04-06, 02:11 AM

I find that Knoppix installs way better than Kanotix, which is the most important thing for a new-to-linux user. I don't really see much of a difference between the two in terms of usability.
Really? I haven't had any problems with Kanotix, and Kanotix just looks and feels cleaner, but that's perhaps more subjective than objective. :rolleyes:

p.s. MDV 2005 is roughly two years newer (the newest is MDV 2006). Be careful with updating though, I suggest you do a clean install. Updating on MDV is far from perfect, especially from such an old version.

A clean install, if you already have MDV (or any other Linux for that matter) installed, is death easy, just select a new install during the install process and set to format your / partition.

Athelwulf

06-04-06, 02:28 AM

MDV 2005 is roughly two years newer (the newest is MDV 2006). Be careful with updating though, I suggest you do a clean install. Updating on MDV is far from perfect, especially from such an old version.
Heh. I guess that's the cause of the problem I've just been having (read my update).

A clean install, if you already have MDV (or any other Linux for that matter) installed, is death easy, just select a new install during the install process and set to format your / partition.
Oh, that's good. I think I'll go try it now, or possibly tomorrow. Thanks.

Avatar

06-04-06, 02:32 AM

at any case, here's a good tutorial with pics: http://www.mandrake.tips.4.free.fr/installmdv2006.html
it's for 2006, but there are no real changes in the installer worth mentioning

If you have any problems, head to: http://www.mandrivausers.org/index.php?act=idx

Athelwulf

06-04-06, 04:26 AM

Am I really expected to know how to work GNU Grub?

I did a fresh install of Mandriva 2005. Instead of giving me a boot screen at start-up, it gave me a command line and asked for a command. I was stuck. I couldn't boot any OS. I had to do a fresh install of the older Mandrake to get things back to normal. This time, I put the bootloader on a floppy. I hope it helps me in the future.

Maybe I'll try going to that Mandriva users forum.

EDIT: I think I know what caused the command line to come up. I told the Mandriva 2005 installer to put the bootloader on the first sector of the root partition. And now I think the only reason why I was able to get back on the computer after the fresh install of Mandrake 10.0, was because I put the bootloader on a floppy. Knowing this much, I think I'll try Mandriva again tomorrow and put the bootloader on the first sector of the drive.

I'm learning so much about computers in the process of getting the dual-boot system to actually work smoothly – so much that it's ridiculous. :bugeye:

leopold

06-04-06, 08:44 AM

They said there was most likely no driver for the modem installed. They also said that was probably the case with my sound card as well.

The guy I went to worked wonders on the computer. He installed the necessary drivers off a disk in about twenty minutes. I had Internet and audio capabilities again! He even gave me the disk..

how much did he charge you for installing the drivers?

Avatar

06-04-06, 11:07 AM

Athelwulf

06-04-06, 05:55 PM

how much did he charge you for installing the drivers?
Twenty dollars. The Internet place would've charged fifty or so.

Athelwulf

06-04-06, 10:20 PM

I finally have things running relatively smoothly! :D

I still have a few minor problems, but I don't think I have to do any more fresh installs.

I tried using all five CDs that I got from vslayer in the installation process, but it stopped doing anything again at four minutes remaining. It got stuck installing some package called libkdevelop3-devel. I figured the fifth CD was faulty, so I tried installing again and without that CD. It worked! And now I have my new dual-boot computer. Take a look: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/34304598/

*sigh*... Finally!

Thanks for all the help, guys. I don't think this is the end of my little problems, but hopefully the critical ones are out of the way.

przyk

06-05-06, 10:25 PM

Welcome to the Linux community.

Athelwulf

06-06-06, 12:55 AM

Thanks man. :D

leopold

06-12-06, 04:56 PM

baumgarten

06-12-06, 05:37 PM

No good. OLD software. I was running kernel 2.2 in 2001, and that was on PowerPC - most x86 distributions had already moved up to 2.4!

przyk

06-12-06, 08:06 PM

i just purchased linux in a box for 5 bucks.
it has 6 cd's and a couple of boot floppies and a 1 inch thick manual
on the front of the box it says 6.2 suse linux.
it also says kde-1.1.1 and kernel 2.2
can someone tell me if i got a good deal or not?
By comparison, Fedora Core 5 (released last March) comes with KDE 3.5 and Kernel 2.6.15. You should usually do a little research before picking a Linux distribution - some are aimed at desktop users (like Ubuntu and Suse), some are network oriented (Red Hat), some for power users (Gentoo), and others specialize in security (Astaro). Did you buy your distro in a store or something?

Avatar

06-12-06, 11:58 PM

i just purchased linux in a box for 5 bucks.
it has 6 cd's and a couple of boot floppies and a 1 inch thick manual
on the front of the box it says 6.2 suse linux.
it also says kde-1.1.1 and kernel 2.2
can someone tell me if i got a good deal or not?
You got ripped off, even if it's for a 5$!
I started using Linux years ago with a newer software than that (Mandriva 9.1).

I suggest you find a distro you like and then just download the newest from the internet.

http://distrowatch.com/

leopold

06-13-06, 12:15 AM

Did you buy your distro in a store or something?
at a goodwill store

baumgarten
i am currently running OLDER software ! windows millenium

avatar
my connection speed is 120 KB/s(actual) it will take me at least a couple of days to download 6 cds

Fafnir665

06-13-06, 12:31 AM

Around 9 hours actually.

Avatar

06-13-06, 12:35 AM

Or he could just download a Linux distribution that fits on less cd's. Like Kanotix - 1cd.
Or you can always buy the newest here - http://www.linuxcd.org/

p.s. For a starter I advise "Mandriva 2006" (3cd)

RubiksMaster

06-13-06, 01:56 AM

You should have done all that after getting a bigger hard drive :). Come on - 76GB?? You need at least 120 nowadays. Hmmm.... I guess you could always add it as a secondary drive. Out of curiocity, if you did do that, would it also have to be formatted with FAT32? I wouldn't imagine you could even access an NTFS drive through linux, let alone boot from it.

While you are on your big OS streak, so to speak, you might as well update your Windows. Service Pack 1?! I really hope that was a typo. :bugeye:

I thought about doing a dual boot for a while, but then I realized I would have to reformat my drive, and it just wasn't worth it. That, and I just don't really like using linux. :rolleyes:

Avatar

06-13-06, 02:09 AM

Actually you can read NTFS fairly well these days, but writing to NTFS is still quite experimental and not safe.

For dual booting with windows, I advise to install windows on a seperate NTFS partition together with space for any software you might wish to install.
Anyway, do it either way, because, if windows breaks and you need to reinstall it, then at least the other partitions should be safe.

przyk

06-13-06, 12:25 PM

If you want to transfer files between the two OS's you can also create a small FAT32 partition - this is what I have on my system.

leopold

06-13-06, 02:00 PM

For dual booting with windows, I advise to install windows on a seperate NTFS partition together with space for any software you might wish to install.

question
i have winme with fat32
i would like to dual boot beteween windows and the outdated linux i came across.
i have 1 drive partitioned into 2 6gb drives and 2 1.5gb drives and 4 or 5 800mb drives.
i have winme on a 6gb partition.
i could put the linux on the other 6gb partition
now the questions
it doesn't say the linux i have is for intel celerons or not.
it also doesn't say my chipset is supported (i82810)
what about my modem (ethernet) and sound (ac'97)?

RubiksMaster

06-13-06, 04:47 PM

Can I create a FAT32 partition on my main drive without having to reformat it? It's a 250Gb drive, with 187 being used. I've only ever messed with partitions on new drives, straight out of the box.

Avatar

06-13-06, 04:50 PM

You can, there are various tools,
I myself prefer QTParted on Linux.
If you use Windows, there's Partition Magic for that.

edit: corrected mistake - not gt, but qtparted

Avatar

06-13-06, 04:58 PM

question
i have winme with fat32
i would like to dual boot beteween windows and the outdated linux i came across.
i have 1 drive partitioned into 2 6gb drives and 2 1.5gb drives and 4 or 5 800mb drives.
i have winme on a 6gb partition.
i could put the linux on the other 6gb partition
now the questions
it doesn't say the linux i have is for intel celerons or not.
it also doesn't say my chipset is supported (i82810)
what about my modem (ethernet) and sound (ac'97)?

I strongly suggest you don't install the old Linux. Linux back then was in its' Desktop user infancy. You'll have a very unfriendly system, nothing compared to a new and shiny Linux release.

As for the Celeron - it's all the same, you can put Linux even on systems you can't put Windows on.
There should be no problems with either sound or modem, but there might be problems if you install the old Linux.
Seriously, it can mess up, don't install it, compared to new releases it's like installing Windows 3.1 instead of XP

leopold

06-13-06, 05:45 PM

I strongly suggest you don't install the old Linux.
allright. i guess i'll have to download from the link you gave earlier.

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 03:29 PM

Hmm. I'm inspired! I think I might like to set up a dual boot also. I downloaded the Fedora Core 5 ISOs. Should I choose something else instead?

Second question: I have a spare 120Gb drive that I'm not using at the moment. Can I install my linux on that, or does it have to go on a separate partition on my primary drive?

Another question: If I decide I don't like linux, and I want to free up hard drive space, is it easy to uninstall it without messing up Windows XP? I'm still not completely clear on how it installs the bootloader. The last thing I want to do is mess up my boot sector and have to reinstall Windows. Since I plan on using Linux far less than Windows, I figured maybe I should not use the GRUB bootloader, and instead use the NTLDR. Is this easy to do?

Avatar

06-14-06, 03:48 PM

I downloaded the Fedora Core 5 ISOs. Should I choose something else instead?
Fedora Core is a good, but not necessarily the most newbie friendly distro.
If you'd like something easy, but not dumbed down, I suggest Mandriva 2006,
but if you have some experience with Linux or take it a bit more seriously then Fedora Core 5 is an excellent choice, and I myself use it.

Second question: I have a spare 120Gb drive that I'm not using at the moment. Can I install my linux on that, or does it have to go on a separate partition on my primary drive?
Yes, you can, as far as I know. Linux will install its' own bootloader which will know what partition to boot.
Anyways, it won't be one partition, but at least two, but 3 are strongly advised.
1. / also known as 'root', there all the system will be stored, second is swap which is cache, like the page file in windows. 3rd usually is /home, there all your user settings and documents will be stored, so, if you have to reinstall or install a new Linux, all the settings and documents from the previous install will be untouched and usable.
For example, if you have an ftp prog with set up options and bookmars, then on reinstall all the settings and bookmarks will be in place.

If I decide I don't like linux, and I want to free up hard drive space, is it easy to uninstall it without messing up Windows XP
Yes, but I have never done that. :p You just remove the Linux partitions with some windows or Linux live cd tool.
I'm not sure how you get rid of bootloader, but it also can be done, I just don't know the specifics, at any Linux forum someone will tell you how to do that. http://www.mandrivausers.org
has a friendly community.

Use either GRUB or LILO, those are standart and will less likely mess something up than any other bootloader. They're in use by millions of Linux users world wide - they're safe. And I've had no problems with them in the past, including dealing with Windows system partitions.

przyk

06-14-06, 03:59 PM

Hmm. I'm inspired! I think I might like to set up a dual boot also. I downloaded the Fedora Core 5 ISOs. Should I choose something else instead?
Fedora's fine (s'wat I've got). Out of the box it has limited multimedia support so you'll have to download a lot of multimedia players, libraries, codecs, etc. afterwards. You might also have to worry about getting drivers if you have a winmodem.

Second question: I have a spare 120Gb drive that I'm not using at the moment. Can I install my linux on that, or does it have to go on a separate partition on my primary drive?
You should be able to put most of your installation on a second drive, though you should probably free up 100 MB or so on your first drive for the Linux /boot partition (it's simpler if the boot loader goes on the first drive).

Another question: If I decide I don't like linux, and I want to free up hard drive space, is it easy to uninstall it without messing up Windows XP?
Just reformat the linux partitions as NTFS from Windows XP.

I'm still not completely clear on how it installs the bootloader. The last thing I want to do is mess up my boot sector and have to reinstall Windows. Since I plan on using Linux far less than Windows, I figured maybe I should not use the GRUB bootloader, and instead use the NTLDR. Is this easy to do?
Use GRUB - I don't think the Windows boot loader can boot anything that isn't windows, so if you use that you'll need to boot Linux from a boot diskette. If you want to switch back to the windows boot loader, you can use the windows installation CD to start the recovery console, and restore the windows boot loader to the MBR from there - I think its the FIXMBR command, or something similar.

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 03:59 PM

Fedora Core is a good, but not necessarily the most newbie friendly distro.Well, I had to become quite proficient in UNIX for school. I've used several flavors of UNIX and gnome, and whatnot. I've used enough OS's that I'm not too worried.

I'm not sure how you get rid of bootloader, but it also can be done, I just don't know the specifics, at any Linux forum someone will tell you how to do that. http://www.mandrivausers.org
has a friendly community.
Oooh! That's what I was worried about. That's why I thought it might be easier to use NTLDR, because I know that can be configured with Windows. With the GRUB bootloader, can I set which one is my "default" OS, and load it automatically after 'n' number of seconds? Well, if I do have to reinstall Windows, I guess it's ok, because all my important data is on a separate drive, and I still have all the installers for my applications. And thanks for the link, I might need that later.

Ok, cool! So as soon as I get another SATA cable and a molex to SATA power adapter, I will install linux. How exciting! (linux doesn't have a problem with SATA, does it?)

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 04:07 PM

Use GRUB - I don't think the Windows boot loader can boot anything that isn't windows, so if you use that you'll need to boot Linux from a boot diskette. If you want to switch back to the windows boot loader, you can use the windows installation CD to start the recovery console, and restore the windows boot loader to the MBR from there - I think its the FIXMBR command, or something similar. OK, thanks. That shouldn't be too hard then.

You should be able to put most of your installation on a second drive, though you should probably free up 100 MB or so on your first drive for the Linux /boot partition (it's simpler if the boot loader goes on the first drive).
There is plenty of free space right now. Do I actually have to make a separate partition, or will it do it when I install linux?

Fedora's fine (s'wat I've got). Out of the box it has limited multimedia support so you'll have to download a lot of multimedia players, libraries, codecs, etc. afterwards. You might also have to worry about getting drivers if you have a winmodem.Are there special codecs that only work with linux? Or are they compatible with anything? I have an onboard ethernet card, will that be a problem to use it?

EDIT: So the 120GB drive that I want to use for linux - I want about 50GB for use with my Windows OS. Can I have a separate NTFS partition, and then use the rest of the space for my linux partitions? Or will that get weird?

Avatar

06-14-06, 04:09 PM

There won't be any problems with Grub, but there might be problems if you use the windows boot loader. And I know people who've got rid of Grub with no problems at all, I just have never needed to do that, so I don't know.

If you decide to use NTLDR, then don't ask me for any support later. :p I wash my hands.

Avatar

06-14-06, 04:13 PM

przyk told everything in a bit darker colours, because it's really a matter of a few lines in console or a GUI downloader tool.
For mp3, just type "yum install xmms-mp3", that will install the xmms player with mp3 support.
For video, there are w32codecs, so "yum install w32codecs", and install "yum install mplayer",
mplayer has integrated codecs for most stuff.
typically and practically you'll have a lot less problems with codecs than on windows, after the first player is installed. everything else is left to software updates, which on Fedora can be set auto (updates system every night) or just type "yum update" now and then, which will update all software and system to latest versions, security and bugfixes.

------
Linux installer ("Anaconda" for Fedora) will have a handy tool to make all the changes in partitions and creation of them.

You should have no problems with ethernet, the only problems are with winmodems, because MS hides the driver specifics.

przyk

06-14-06, 04:19 PM

With the GRUB bootloader, can I set which one is my "default" OS, and load it automatically after 'n' number of seconds?
Yes. All the GRUB options are saved in the /boot/grub/grub.conf text configuration file. I remember an annoying default setting when I first installed Fedora - you had to press space within 3 seconds to see the OS menu, otherwise it booted Linux (the default).

Once you have it installed, there's a line that says:

default=n [where n is the default OS (0 is the first on the boot menu, 1 is the second, etc.)]

and another that says:

timeout=n [where n is the default no. of seconds to wait before booting]

You can change the numbers in both lines to whatever you want them to be (you need to be logged in as root to save the changes).

Avatar

06-14-06, 04:21 PM

Here's an example of a typical system update I did today:

[root@localhost vault_2]# yum update
Loading "installonlyn" plugin
Setting up Update Process
Setting up repositories
livna [1/5]
core [2/5]
updates [3/5]
freshrpms [4/5]
extras [5/5]
Reading repository metadata in from local files
Resolving Dependencies
--> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait.
---> Package rsync.i386 0:2.6.8-1.FC5.1 set to be updated
---> Package python.i386 0:2.4.3-4.FC5 set to be updated
---> Package xine-lib.i386 0:1.1.1-11.lvn5 set to be updated
---> Package amule.i386 0:2.1.3-1.lvn5 set to be updated
---> Package tkinter.i386 0:2.4.3-4.FC5 set to be updated
--> Running transaction check

Dependencies Resolved

================================================== ===========================
Package Arch Version Repository Size
================================================== ===========================
Updating:
amule i386 2.1.3-1.lvn5 livna 4.7 M
python i386 2.4.3-4.FC5 updates 5.9 M
rsync i386 2.6.8-1.FC5.1 updates 230 k
tkinter i386 2.4.3-4.FC5 updates 278 k
xine-lib i386 1.1.1-11.lvn5 livna 3.2 M

Transaction Summary
================================================== ===========================
Install 0 Package(s)
Update 5 Package(s)
Remove 0 Package(s)
Total download size: 14 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y
Downloading Packages:
(1/5): rsync-2.6.8-1.FC5. 100% |=========================| 230 kB 00:02
(2/5): python-2.4.3-4.FC5 100% |=========================| 5.9 MB 01:40
(3/5): xine-lib-1.1.1-11. 100% |=========================| 3.2 MB 00:58
(4/5): amule-2.1.3-1.lvn5 100% |=========================| 4.7 MB 01:20
(5/5): tkinter-2.4.3-4.FC 100% |=========================| 278 kB 00:04
Running Transaction Test
Finished Transaction Test
Transaction Test Succeeded
Running Transaction
Updating : python ####################### [ 1/10]
Updating : xine-lib ####################### [ 2/10]
Updating : rsync ####################### [ 3/10]
Updating : amule ####################### [ 4/10]
Updating : tkinter ####################### [ 5/10]
Cleanup : rsync ####################### [ 6/10]
Cleanup : python ####################### [ 7/10]
Cleanup : xine-lib ####################### [ 8/10]
Cleanup : amule ####################### [ 9/10]
Cleanup : tkinter ####################### [10/10]

Updated: amule.i386 0:2.1.3-1.lvn5 python.i386 0:2.4.3-4.FC5 rsync.i386 0:2.6.8-1.FC5.1 tkinter.i386 0:2.4.3-4.FC5 xine-lib.i386 0:1.1.1-11.lvn5
Complete!

przyk

06-14-06, 04:37 PM

There is plenty of free space right now. Do I actually have to make a separate partition, or will it do it when I install linux?
The installation will take care of creating the partitions you need.

Are there special codecs that only work with linux? Or are they compatible with anything? I have an onboard ethernet card, will that be a problem to use it?
Don't have much experience with Linux and multimedia, but it seems about as capable as windows is once you've got everything you need. At the moment I haven't taken the time to get my Linux system to go online, as I haven't got it to detect my modem yet. This means there's stuff like multimedia and softare updating I don't know much about yet. During the summer I'll have access to ADSL, so I'll be able to turn my installation into a far more usable system (the installer detected and configured my ethernet automatically - I've already seen it use ADSL once or twice without any problems).

EDIT: So the 120GB drive that I want to use for linux - I want about 50GB for use with my Windows OS. Can I have a separate NTFS partition, and then use the rest of the space for my linux partitions? Or will that get weird?
You can do whatever partitioning you want - you can set everything up during the installation. By default it'll want to format all the free space for use for Linux, so you'll have to look for an option to do the partitioning yourself - then you specify the partition sizes and mount points, and you're ready to install.

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 06:34 PM

przyk

06-14-06, 07:24 PM

Ok, I've been reading about this, and I've found stories of people putting the bootloader in the wrong partition, and screwing things up. What's this all about? Some people say not to put it in the MBR, but instead to put it in the 1st partition. Some people say just the opposite (explicitly saying to install it to the Master Boot Record). When I get to this step, what do I do?
I've got GRUB in the MBR. If you don't do this, windows will boot every time you start the computer (you won't get the GRUB menu), and you'll need the Linux boot floppy if you want to boot Linux.

One possible difficulty is that GRUB might have trouble reading NTFS partitions (and therefore be unable to boot WinXP). I had this problem when I tried to get WinXP and Red Hat 9 to dual boot, but that was with an older GRUB so it might not be an issue anymore. I'd say, put it on the MBR and hope for the best. If it doesn't work, you can always restore the Windows MBR later (using the recovery console mentioned earlier).

The boot arrangement I've got right now is actually quite interesting: I've got GRUB in the MBR, and the windows boot loader on a small (5 GB) FAT32 partition with Windows 98 on it. When I boot up, GRUB gives me the option of booting either Linux or Windows. If I pick "Windows", the windows boot loader then gives me its own menu, allowing me to start either Windows 98 or 2000.

And then I read this weird thing about using the 'dd' command to export the boot partition to a drive accessible to Windows, and then boot up windows normally, and make a few changes.
I've never had to worry about the 'dd' command. I don't even know what it is (something to pull up a man page for next time I use Linux, I guess).

It's all very confusing with all the conflicting instructions. Anyone care to clarify for me? While we're at it, are there any more things I should know before shutting down Windows and starting the install?
The only difficulties I ever encountered were boot-related. Just start up the Fedora installer - it should guide you through the installation procedure. Also, it doesn't make any permanent changes to your system (such as formatting partitions) until the install actually starts, so you can have a look at all the options to see if there's anything that worries you.

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 07:35 PM

I read a little bit more, and I figured out what people were saying about not installing GRUB to the MBR. Apparently that's the way to continue using NTLDR. You have to install GRUB to the 1st linux partition, and then export it to a drive that Windows can use. Then you have to put it in your main Windows partition, and configure the NTLDR bootloader to recognize the linux partition you just copied. It's all very complicated.

Anyway, that would be a good way to go if it turns out that GRUB can't load Windows XP. So I guess now I just have to format my drive that linux is going into, back up my important data (in case something catastrophic happens!), and then I will install Fedora. I'm a little nervous, but I do have the XP disc, so I should be able to recover painlessly.

I don't need a floppy disk drive do I? Everything I read seems to mention making a boot disk. If I do, I'll have to steal the one from my old computer.

przyk

06-14-06, 08:00 PM

Hi,

Good luck with your install. As for the floppy drive, its definitely a good thing to have. As far as I know, it's the simplest "alternative" way of booting Linux (you're given the option of creating a boot floppy during the install). If you have a floppy drive available, I highly recommend using it.

There's a rescue mode on the DVD, or a rescue CD if you downloaded the CD ISOs. It's essentially the equivalent of the Windows recovery console, and about as user friendly (ie. not very). I've never succeeded in using it to actually boot Linux, though I've used it to reinstall the boot loader a couple of times.

RubiksMaster

06-14-06, 08:04 PM

ok, that's good to know about the rescue cd.

EDIT:
OK, that was weird. I went through the whole installation. First of all, it never asked me how I wanted to set up my partitions. Then when it finished, it asked me to take out the disk, and reboot my computer. At that point, I would have expected GRUB to ask me which OS I wanted to run. Or at least load Linux by default. It just loaded Windows XP as if nothing had ever happened!

During the installation, it asked me which OS I wanted as the default. I chose Windows XP, because I plan on mainly using that. Is this what caused the problem?

Avatar

06-15-06, 12:01 AM

1. I use Grub, it's stored on MBR, it boots winxp just fine (I have always put it on MBR, because otherwise something doesn't work).
2. If you did everything properly then for 5 seconds you'd see a blue Fedora screen with a countdown asking to press something in order to see the menu. If nothing is pressed, it boots Fedora (for me), I haven't used the win partition in a looooooooong time (for 2 years or so), but I checked out to see if it works.
I suggest you just set it to boot Fedora by default and then within Fedora later set the first partition to boot be windows.
And don't do any hacks with windows bootloader, it doesn't understand Linux well.

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 12:25 AM

Well then it should work. But it doesn't. I made sure it installed to the MBR. Then I tried it with Windows being the default, and then I tried it with Fedora being the default.

When I turn on my computer, I don't see anything except the intel splashscreen (I have an intel motherboard). Then it goes immediately to the screen that says "Windows XP" and shows the progress bar.

Is there maybe some kind of key I have to press during the initial startup? (almost like the BIOS setup key, but one that starts up GRUB)

I know Fedora is installed, because I can't access the drive from Windows, and when I boot from the Fedora CD, it detects the previous installation. So I know the problem is something with the bootloader.

przyk

06-15-06, 02:00 AM

Where's it installed? Older bioses sometimes have trouble reading beyond the first 1024 cylinders of the hard disk, requiring /boot to be near the beginning of the drive. I don't know what GRUB will think of booting from your second hard drive, so if you feel like reinstalling, you can try putting a /boot partition on the first hard drive.

If you want manual control of your partitioning, you need to explicity tell the installer this. On the screen that let's you pick the installation drive (I think its the third, following the language and keyboard selections), there's a check box on the lower left you should select (review/modify partitioning, or something along those lines).

Alternatively, you can check your BIOS and see if there's an option that might help, like telling it to boot your 2nd hard disk.

Avatar

06-15-06, 02:41 AM

Well, in that case I advise you to ask in Fedora or Mandriva forums, I say Mandriva, because the community there is more friendly and many of the members use Fedora themselves.
I haven't had problems with Grub, so I'm afraid I can't really help you.

http://www.mandrivausers.org/
http://www.fedoraforum.org/

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 02:43 AM

Alternatively, you can check your BIOS and see if there's an option that might help, like telling it to boot your 2nd hard disk. I thought of that already. It just says "Error loading operating system" and I have to hit the reset button.

If you want manual control of your partitioning, you need to explicity tell the installer this. On the screen that let's you pick the installation drive (I think its the third, following the language and keyboard selections), there's a check box on the lower left you should select (review/modify partitioning, or something along those lines).I tried that, but I had trouble setting my own partitions. No matter what partition I tried to create, it gave me some error message about setting it as the primary partition (or something like that). I can tell you exactly what it says tomorrow when I try it again.

Where's it installed? Older bioses sometimes have trouble reading beyond the first 1024 cylinders of the hard disk, requiring /boot to be near the beginning of the drive. I don't know what GRUB will think of booting from your second hard drive, so if you feel like reinstalling, you can try putting a /boot partition on the first hard drive.
Would that mean having to reinstall Windows? Or can I just tell it to make the boot partition on. And I don't know if that's even a problem, because mine is a newer BIOS.

Avatar

06-15-06, 02:46 AM

Would that mean having to reinstall Windows?
Nah, in the worst case it'd mean reinstalling Linux with the boot partition closer to the begining of the drive. For me it is the second partition anyway - starting from 11gb out of 120

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 02:54 AM

I looked at that forum from your link, and I think I found a thread that was the problem I was having. it has step by step instructions. I'll try it tomorrow.

Athelwulf

06-15-06, 03:15 AM

leopold99,

i just purchased linux in a box for 5 bucks.
it has 6 cd's and a couple of boot floppies and a 1 inch thick manual
on the front of the box it says 6.2 suse linux.
it also says kde-1.1.1 and kernel 2.2
can someone tell me if i got a good deal or not?
SUSE 10.1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux) was released this May. What you have is sorta outdated.

You can get Ubuntu 6.06 (http://www.ubuntu.com), released this month, in the mail for free. I've read somewhere, though, that it's almost shit compared to the versions before it.

i am currently running OLDER software ! windows millenium
Upgrade.

my connection speed is 120 KB/s(actual) it will take me at least a couple of days to download 6 cds
You think you have it bad? My connection is theoretically 50KB/s, and the best average download speed I can ever manage is 2KB/s.

Athelwulf

06-15-06, 03:17 AM

RubiksMaster,

You should have done all that after getting a bigger hard drive. Come on - 76GB?? You need at least 120 nowadays.
I'm only using a bit under half of it, currently. So it's sufficient. But I would very much like to upgrade my memory, which is currently 224MB. Which reminds me: Do you happen to have any extra memory laying around which you don't need? :D

Out of curiocity, if you did do that, would it also have to be formatted with FAT32? I wouldn't imagine you could even access an NTFS drive through linux, let alone boot from it.
I'm not sure. I have learned, however, that Linux can read my NTFS (Windows) partition, but it can't write to it. And I haven't had any weird boot problems since I got everything sorted out. Dunno if that helps answer your question any.

While you are on your big OS streak, so to speak, you might as well update your Windows. Service Pack 1?! I really hope that was a typo.
'Twas not. This computer was bought in March 2003.

I think I mentioned getting a new Windows CD in this thread. Putting Mandrake on the computer was the perfect opportunity to erase my harddrive and get rid of my old Windows, which had been turning into shit exponentially since I got it. The buttons for my running programs wouldn't appear on the taskbar, sometimes explorer.exe would freeze up and become unresponsive upon boot-up, and sometimes the computer wouldn't start transfering data when it connected to the Internet, all of which would make me restart several times (which was so fucking slow a process) until it finally worked an hour later. And that wasn't the limit of my problems either. Add the fact that I was using Panda Titanium Antivirus, which slowed down my computer profoundly, and also that it's all Microsoft shit that I'm dealing with... :(

I now have Windows XP Home SP2. It's running smoothly(er).

I thought about doing a dual boot for a while, but then I realized I would have to reformat my drive, and it just wasn't worth it. That, and I just don't really like using linux.
Reformatting is worth it when your current Windows is a piece of shit. And besides, it's not too painful a process. But I guess there's no point in saying so since you don't like Linux.

Can I create a FAT32 partition on my main drive without having to reformat it? It's a 250Gb drive, with 187 being used. I've only ever messed with partitions on new drives, straight out of the box.
Yes you can! And I've done it too! My Mandrake CDs, as well as the installed Mandrake itself, let me repartition the harddrive instantly. And it doesn't even hurt the data on the harddrive, though it does have the potental. I wouldn't know how else you could go about it, other than what Avatar mentioned.

Ok, I've been reading about this, and I've found stories of people putting the bootloader in the wrong partition, and screwing things up.
Did you read my particular story in this thread? I put the bootloader on the Linux partition instead of the MBR, thinking that it was the most logical place for it. It turns out the computer doesn't see it first, and instead loads a command-line interface bootloader. It was called GNU Grub or something.

Me + CLIs = dumb.

*twitches eye*

Anyway, yeah, that's my story. You can add it to your personal list of computer geek anecdotes, if you keep one. :p

przyk

06-15-06, 03:56 AM

My connection is theoretically 50KB/s, and the best average download speed I can ever manage is 2KB/s.
56K modem huh? Join the club. Just in case there's any confusion, by the way, transmission speeds are usually measured in bits per second, not bytes, so your theoretical maximum is actually 7 KB/s, not allowing for overhead (like info about where the data's going, etc.). I never get a download rate higher than about 5.5 KB/s.

leopold

06-15-06, 06:37 AM

My connection is theoretically 50KB/s, and the best average download speed I can ever manage is 2KB/s.
are you sure your speed isn't 56 kiloBITS per second?
it sounds like you have dial-up

connection speeds vary by a bunch
mine varies by the time of day and the servers i connect to
when i said actual i meant actual average
on average i get anywhere between 30 and 150 KB/s
my theoritical maximum is 186 KB/s

as for the upgrade my os serves me well

Athelwulf

06-15-06, 07:02 AM

are you sure your speed isn't 56 kiloBITS per second?
it sounds like you have dial-up
The pop-up dialog tells me "Speed: 50.6 Kbps". I'm guessing there's a difference between "KB" and "Kb"?

But yeah, I do have dial-up.

leopold

06-15-06, 09:57 AM

The pop-up dialog tells me "Speed: 50.6 Kbps". I'm guessing there's a difference between "KB" and "Kb"?

But yeah, I do have dial-up.
yes, KB is kilobytes and kb is kilobits
you divide kb by 8 to get KB
then to get the average speed for your connection divide that result by 2

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 01:38 PM

I'm only using a bit under half of it, currently. So it's sufficient. But I would very much like to upgrade my memory, which is currently 224MB. Which reminds me: Do you happen to have any extra memory laying around which you don't need? You know me well! But... with RAM, it has to be the same number of pins, and the same speed. I have 2 sticks of 128MB (so it could double your memory) that I'm not using (and in about a week, I'll have another 2 sticks of something else). Find out what speed of RAM your motherboard supports, and how many pins (my guess is 184 pin). If they would work in your computer, I'd be happy to let you have them. Hell, I'd even install it.

Did you read my particular story in this thread? I put the bootloader on the Linux partition instead of the MBR, thinking that it was the most logical place for it. It turns out the computer doesn't see it first, and instead loads a command-line interface bootloader. It was called GNU Grub or something.Yeah, I made sure mine went into the MBR, but it still loads XP without even asking me.

So anyway, here's an update with my problem. I tried booting from the Fedora rescue cd, thinking that if I could get into linux I could mess with a few settings. But it just hung on a black screen, and didn't load. I think I have a problem with my partitions. Does linux have problems with SATA, or large drives?

You think you have it bad? My connection is theoretically 50KB/s, and the best average download speed I can ever manage is 2KB/s. I remember having dialup less than a year ago. Now I'm on "high speed" cable. I miss the T3 connection I had at school! I could several megabytes per second!

Athelwulf

06-15-06, 06:03 PM

You know me well! But... with RAM, it has to be the same number of pins, and the same speed. I have 2 sticks of 128MB (so it could double your memory) that I'm not using (and in about a week, I'll have another 2 sticks of something else). Find out what speed of RAM your motherboard supports, and how many pins (my guess is 184 pin). If they would work in your computer, I'd be happy to let you have them. Hell, I'd even install it.
Sounds great. :)

Now, how do I find out what speed and number of pins? Does it require looking at the guts of the computer, or will something inside Windows tell me?

I remember having dialup less than a year ago. Now I'm on "high speed" cable. I miss the T3 connection I had at school! I could several megabytes per second!
Yeah, the school's connection is hella fast (I assume you mean KU).

leopold

06-15-06, 07:03 PM

you can download dr. hardware from the following link.
it will tell you all kinds of stuff about your computer.
http://www.dr-hardware.com/

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 07:10 PM

No, I mean the Rochester Institute of Technology. The internet at KU SUCKED compared to this!

Anyway, I'll tell you about the RAM through a PM so we don't completely derail this thread. I still want it readable in case I have any more problems :D

Which reminds me, I still can't figure out what's wrong with my linux. Maybe I should just switch to Mandriva or something? Or at least try out some other distro to help diagnose the problem.

przyk

06-15-06, 07:22 PM

How many Windows partitions did you have on your first drive before starting the install? You said something about a problem with creating a primary partition, which suggests that you already had 3 or 4 Windows partitions on your drive. If you can spare it, try temporarily removing one or two of these partitions (transfer the files to your other HD), and recreate them later as logical drives.

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 07:37 PM

I don't exactly understand what you're asking. So I'll just explain my whole partition situation.

I have my main drive (120GB) that has Windows on it. It's almost full. Single NTFS partition.
I have my second drive (250GB) that I just use for data. I don't want any OS on it. Single NTFS partition.

Then I have my third drive (120GB, shows up as hdb in the installer). This is the one I want linux on. I started with a single NTFS partition on it, and then I let the installer do it's thing. When I bring up the info from Windows, it shows 2 partitions, 1 is "Active", and 1 is "Unknown." Both partitions show up as healthy.

Another weird thing I noticed. Every time I do a fresh install, and then boot up windows, it says it found new hardware, but I have to restart in order for the hardware to work properly. I have no idea what this is about.

przyk

06-15-06, 08:00 PM

Ok. Do you think you could spare 100 megabytes or so on your first hard drive (should be "hda")? If you can, reinstall with the /boot partition there, that way you can be pretty sure that GRUB will go on the MBR of the first drive. The rest of your Linux system can go anywhere you want - the hurdle is getting /boot detected.

If you feel like it, resize the win partition so that /boot can go at the beginning of the hard disk. You'll avoid the 1024 cylinder limit this way, though it shouldn't be a problem unless you have an old BIOS.

(And in case no-ones already mentioned it, make sure you have a swap partition somewhere)

RubiksMaster

06-15-06, 09:57 PM

So you think that maybe the /boot partition is on the wrong drive? I have plenty of space on that drive. I guess I'll try that a little later. So when I'm in the setup, and it asks me which drives I want it installed on, I assume I have to check both hda and hdb?

Can the swap partition go on hdb along with linux, or does it have to go on hda?

What's considered an old BIOS?

przyk

06-15-06, 10:18 PM

So you think that maybe the /boot partition is on the wrong drive? I have plenty of space on that drive. I guess I'll try that a little later. So when I'm in the setup, and it asks me which drives I want it installed on, I assume I have to check both hda and hdb?
I expect so. I've never been faced with this problem, as I only have one hard disk.

This site states that /boot must be on the same drive as the WinXP boot loader:
http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux/grub-w2k-HOWTO.html

Can the swap partition go on hdb along with linux, or does it have to go on hda?
Should be fine on hdb. The swap partition is just reserved for virtual memory; I only mentioned it because you seemed to imply you only had one Linux partition.

What's considered an old BIOS?
Not really sure, but if you have a Pentium 4 era machine you should be safe.

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 12:10 AM

Avatar

06-16-06, 12:14 AM

You can buy Linux cd's cheap from here:
http://www.osdisc.com/
http://www.cheapbytes.com/

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 01:25 AM

I'm downloading the Mandriva 2006 ISOs as we speak!

As for my Fedora problem, here is the actual error message it gives me: "Could not allocate requested partitions: Partitioning failed: could not allocate partitions as primary partitions"

The whole partition GUI is vey confusing to me. What are all the LVM volume groups, and why do I have to choose "allowable drives"for my partitions?

Athelwulf: Sure, I can give you a copy after I make sure I downloaded the right thing.

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 01:49 AM

I'm downloading the Mandriva 2006 ISOs as we speak!
Man, how fast is your download speed? It must be really fast if you're willing to download those huge-o files.

Sure, I can give you a copy after I downloaded the right thing.
Thankya.

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 02:04 AM

At this instant, it's running about 11 megabytes per minute (around 187 kilobytes per second). That's actually really fast, considering I'm behind a router sharing bandwidth from 3 computers. This must be a good FTP server I'm connected to.

I might have to let it run all night and finish the install tomorrow :(
At this rate it won't get done until 3 in the morning, and then I still have to burn all 3 CDs, and then do the install. Hmmm... should I go for it? :)
I can always finish watching season 2 of Seinfeld while I'm waiting

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 05:41 AM

Wow! Breakthrough! I installed Mandriva 2006, and apparently the problem was with the GRUB loader. When mandriva asked me to install GRUB, it gave me an error
Installation of bootlaoder failed. the following error occured:
in partition_table::dos=HASH(0x92f0d68)
partition_table::dos=HASH(0x92bdf90)
partition_table::dos=HASH(0x9248260).

So, anyway, then I chose instead to install LILO, which worked. Now I see the LILO screen everytime I boot up. There is one problem however. When I load into linux, it asks me to log into localhost, which is weird because I'm not trying to do anything with a network. But anyway, I log in with the account I set up during the installation, and then I'm at a command prompt. I know my way around a UNIX-like command prompt pretty well, and I'm able to change directories and everything, but where the hell is the GUI?? I don't want to be stuck at the command prompt for the rest of my life.

Avatar

06-16-06, 05:44 AM

1. localhost is your computer and you need to log in to use it
2. there might be some weird problem with video card drivers
1) did you set up the appropriate video card driver during the install?
2) did you set that X should be launched upon boot?

Anyway, try writing "startx" as root and see what happens.

leopold

06-16-06, 06:02 AM

There is one problem however. When I load into linux, it asks me to log into localhost, which is weird because I'm not trying to do anything with a network.
this might have something to do with your nat router or ethernet card
my os is winme and i don't even have a network but every time i start windows it asks me for my network name. i just press enter. i never had that with dialup

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 06:42 AM

Hey!! Look at me, I'm posting this from my new linux!

I finally figured out how to work the basics. I can load into KDE, but I think it also comes with GNOME. How can I use this, if even possible?

Second of all, when I'm in KDE and I click logout, it logs me out, but the screen is all weird, with a lot of yellow, and then some noise near the top. The noise changes when I type, so I'm sure it's just a display problem of some sort.

Anyway, that's all for now. I might have more questions later.

Avatar

06-16-06, 06:51 AM

Congrats! If you have any questions, I suggest you go to mandrivausers.org,
I'm there known as solarian, but can help you here too. :)

You can log into Gnome, if you have it installed. It's on the cd's, but I have no idea whether you ticked Gnome during the install.
It might be that you set that every time you boot, you are automatically logged into KDE. There's an option for that during the install and I think it's ticked in by default. You can disable that in MCC (Mandrake Control Centre). Just write "mcc" in konsole, to get to it.

The logout weirdness is something to do with video card drivers, i.e., Mandriva has some problems with it. Most times it's due to incorrect setting up, because 90% of graphic cards are supported.
It could also be a monitor problem and to do with set up frequency. Check out if your correct monitor model is selected I (in mcc).

Please be more specific about what card you use and make a thread about it in Hardware section of mandrivausers.org and either I or someone else will help you from there.
I don't use Mandriva any more (I did not have problems with it), so I can't look into your problem more competently, because I have no Mandriva system files to check out, so mandrivausers.org would be an ideal place to solve your problems and answer your questions.

leopold

06-16-06, 08:18 AM

i just purchased red hat linux version 9 for 5 bucks i also purchased mandrake linux 9.1 for 5 bucks

which one if any should i attempt to install?

Avatar

06-16-06, 09:24 AM

Why don't you people do a little research before you buy something?
Mandrake 9.1 is ancient, really ancient! And RedHat 9 is from 2003 - ages ago by Linux standarts.
The answer is - neither.

If you purchase something, do it from a Linux shop, like the links I provided earlier.
Or be reasonable and download the latest/greatest for free.

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 02:27 PM

OK, thanks for the help, everyone! I'll check out that mandriva forum, and hopefully all my problems will be solved then!

By the way, is it pronounced man-dree-va or man-drive-a or something else completely? :D

Avatar

06-16-06, 02:54 PM

Man-drivel :D

I pronounce it as it ends up in Latvian language, so I really don't know how it is pronounced in English,
but the name came to being after Mandrake bought Connectiva (another distro), the main reason was a court order because on copyrights on the word Mandriva for some obscure, unknown French comic.

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 03:53 PM

Hey!! Look at me, I'm posting this from my new linux!
I still have to find a driver for my modem so Linux can communicate with it. How did you get on? :(

I finally figured out how to work the basics. I can load into KDE, but I think it also comes with GNOME. How can I use this, if even possible?
There's a whole bunch you can configure under "Configure My Computer". You can find that in the Start-menu-esque menu. Look for the boot configurations. Around there, you can set it so it boots with GNOME, or whatever other environments it comes with.

Second of all, when I'm in KDE and I click logout, it logs me out, but the screen is all weird, with a lot of yellow, and then some noise near the top. The noise changes when I type, so I'm sure it's just a display problem of some sort.
I get a plain black screen when I do that. And I have to manually shut off the computer to get out of it. The best that I could tell you is not to log out, but to restart or shut down.

By the way, is it pronounced man-dree-va or man-drive-a or something else completely?
I say man-drive-a, because I see the word "drive" in it. And most likely, I'll always say man-drive-a even if it turns out to be man-dree-va. Because I'm weird like that, I guess.

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 04:08 PM

i just purchased red hat linux version 9 for 5 bucks i also purchased mandrake linux 9.1 for 5 bucks

which one if any should i attempt to install?
I second what Avatar said:

Why don't you people do a little research before you buy something?
Wikipedia.com is a cornucopia of information on just about anything, including Linux. Wikipedia.com is your friend. Go to Wikipedia and look up the article on a Linux distro, see how old the version is, before you decide to buy it.

Look, for example, at the Red Hat Linux article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux). What you have is the latest version, but Red Hat died two years ago. It pretty much only exists as the basis of other distros now, such as Mandriva, Yellow Dog, and ASPLinux.

Looking over at the the Mandriva Linux article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandriva_Linux), you see that the latest version is 2006.0, which is the version released just after mine, 10.2. Version 9.1 was released in 2003.

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 04:47 PM

it's Wikipedia.org, not '.com' :)

I still have to find a driver for my modem so Linux can communicate with it. How did you get on? Well, I'm not using a regular modem. It detected my ethernet card automatically, and I had to set some things for the gateway and DHCP (I just used the defaults though). What kind of modem do you have? I might be able to help find a driver and get it running.

I say man-drive-a, because I see the word "drive" in it. And most likely, I'll always say man-drive-a even if it turns out to be man-dree-va. Because I'm weird like that, I guess.I say Man-drive-a too, because I think it sounds better. But if it turns out to be the other way, I don't want to sound stupid if I'm talking to someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

Do you still want the Mandriva 2006 discs? I have them and I know they work now.

leopold

06-16-06, 05:01 PM

look guys i am not a genius when it comes to linux.
the latest versions of linux i bought was at a yard sale.
i went to the website given by avatar and looked around and i found 13, count 'em, 13 different flavors of linux. i have no clue as to what to download.

so, will someone please tell me what to download?

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 05:11 PM

I was just as lost as you when I started. I just searched google for linux ISO downloads, and I noticed that one of the more common ones was Fedora Core. So I looked it up and the latest version was 5. Then Avatar said he uses it on his computer, so I knew it must still be good. Other than that, I noticed that mandrake linux was also popular, and that it is now Mandriva 2006.

I seem to be having pretty good luck with Mandriva 2006 so far. Though Fedora looked pretty good too. The only reason I couldn't work it was because my computer didn't like GRUB for some reason. So my suggestion would be to get either Fedora Core 5 or Mandriva 2006. But that's just me.

leopold

06-16-06, 06:15 PM

i think i'll stick with windows

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 06:35 PM

so, will someone please tell me what to download?
Well, it seems Mandriva is the most recommended Linux around here. It's also the one that both RubiksMaster and I are using. So go with that. And if you get stuck, you'll have two people here to turn to for questions.

it's Wikipedia.org, not '.com' :)
We all know what I mean... And both URLs go to the same place (for me) anyway. *shrugs*

What kind of modem do you have? I might be able to help find a driver and get it running.
HSP56 MR, manufactured by PCtel.

These modems apparently are no longer supported bythe company that made them. I think it has something to do with the fact that Northgate Innovations (the people who made this computer) went out of business.

I say Man-drive-a too, because I think it sounds better. But if it turns out to be the other way, I don't want to sound stupid if I'm talking to someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
Well yeah, there's that. But you know how stubborn I am.

Do you still want the Mandriva 2006 discs? I have them and I know they work now.
Ja bitte. :D

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 06:41 PM

By the way, RubiksMaster:

Wikipedia.org (:rolleyes:) has some links from their Fedora Core article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Core#External_links) which you could study, if you still haven't quite solved your installation problems.

RubiksMaster

06-16-06, 08:42 PM

Nah, don't feel like it. I already have Mandriva running fine. Though maybe if I could use Fedora with LILO instead of GRUB. . . .

Athelwulf

06-16-06, 09:38 PM

Post a screenshot of your new OS, man!

Here's a combined screenshot (http://www.deviantart.com/view/34304598/) of both my Windows and Mandriva. The only thing that's changed about my Mandriva since that screenshot is that I have this wallpaper (http://www.mononeurona.org/galerias.php?phid=155&galid=6) now.

przyk

06-16-06, 10:19 PM

I initially set up a swap partition (ten percent of my harddrive) when I started trying to get my dual-boot system to work. In the end, however, I decided I could do without that partition, and now I have two, one for Windows (NTFS) and one for Linux. Is a swap partition recommended? And should it be FAT?
Swap=virtual memory, and it's recommended. Windows has virtual memory, though it just uses a pagefile instead of a dedicated partition. Usually your swap should be comparable to your RAM, maybe twice as much. I have 512 MB RAM and 2 gigs of swap, for example. It's not FAT, though. You have to format it as swap.

You had 8 gigabytes of swap before? :eek:

I know my way around a UNIX-like command prompt pretty well, and I'm able to change directories and everything, but where the hell is the GUI?? I don't want to be stuck at the command prompt for the rest of my life.
Congrats on your install! Weird, the problems you had with Fedora Core tho.

If you want a graphical login every time you start up, you should be able to do it by editing the /etc/inittab file as root. See if there's a line that looks like:

id:3:initdefault:

And change the "3" to a "5" (if you want to play a joke on someone else's machine, put either 0 or 6 there). I don't know if there's a graphical utility that'll do this for you.

Athelwulf

06-17-06, 12:11 AM

Swap=virtual memory, and it's recommended. Windows has virtual memory, though it just uses a pagefile instead of a dedicated partition. Usually your swap should be comparable to your RAM, maybe twice as much. I have 512 MB RAM and 2 gigs of swap, for example. It's not FAT, though. You have to format it as swap.
Oh, okay. Does it matter at all where on the drive it is physically (if that makes sense)? Such as, could I place it between the Windows and Linux partition?

You had 8 gigabytes of swap before? :eek:
Well I didn't know. :(

przyk

06-17-06, 02:00 AM

Oh, okay. Does it matter at all where on the drive it is physically (if that makes sense)? Such as, could I place it between the Windows and Linux partition?
I don't see why not, provided you have unpartitioned space there. I think you can even play around with multiple swap partitions and stuff, though I don't see much point in it. One thing I'd be interested in knowing is if it's possible to get Windows to use Linux swap. It's a bit of a waste to have 2 different swap locations for 2 different OS's, when they essentially serve the same purpose.

Avatar

06-17-06, 02:32 AM

Here's a screenshot of my desktop:
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4307/avatarscreen9ed.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avatarscreen9ed.jpg)

RubiksMaster

06-17-06, 03:09 AM

OK, you all can see my new desktop here:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/th3juggler/newOS.jpg

Igor Trip

06-17-06, 11:41 AM

OK now that everyone has Linux, the big question is, why bother if you already have windows xp?

Just what is the real advantage?

Avatar

06-17-06, 11:59 AM

It's stable, safe, fast, free, open source and I can customize it to my hearts' content,
there are no activation codes, no DRM and can go on for months without a single restart,
besides I can do everything faster and there are many technical advantages, like no need for defragmentation, multiple desktops and multiple sessions at once, etc and I love the terminal.
Compared to Linux, Windows XP is boring, insecure, buggy and restricting, i.e., Linux is just a better OS.

Igor Trip

06-17-06, 12:23 PM

What! XP boring? :confused:
When I am having so much fun running Anti spyware and virus programs? And I just love the XP defrag. It's so relaxing to watch. :D

What else would I do on a friday night? :eek:

leopold

06-17-06, 01:07 PM

no DRM
no need for defragmentation,
what's DRM?

unless linux uses some exotic file system it will become fragmented

leopold

06-17-06, 01:09 PM

Compared to Linux, Windows XP is boring, insecure, buggy and restricting, i.e., Linux is just a better OS.
i noticed that my OS becomes unstable when i do an update on it

RubiksMaster

06-17-06, 01:12 PM

I don't have a real need for linux. I still use windows way more than linux. I just like computers, and I thought it would be fun to set up a dual boot. It's never a bad thing to learn to use a new operating system, especially with my career choice of software engineering.

no DRM Really? Can it even play Windows Media file types?

Avatar

06-17-06, 01:33 PM

And I don't have a need for Windows. :)

It can play wma files if w32codecs are installed. Not legal in the USA as far as I know.

p.s. Linux native file systems (EXT2, EXT3, ReiserFS) do not need defragmentation under normal use and this includes any condition with at least 5% of free space on a disk.

Igor Trip

06-17-06, 05:45 PM

Wouldn't exactly call Linux 'free'.

Mandriva wants $34.90 - $120 per year for downloading the free software.
http://store.mandriva.com/index.php?currency=USD&osCsid=4f2f8191a325d1e93fbeb4acee6d7272

Though admittedly that's about what I spend each year on free software from mags and Norton antivirus.

Avatar

06-17-06, 05:48 PM

That's bullshit, you don't need to subscribe to that service.
It's only for those too lazy to type a few words themselves or those willing to support the company,
besides Mandriva is just one Linux distribution out of many and, if you wish, you can choose a lot of other less commercial ones with no additional services and support.

Gadren

06-17-06, 10:14 PM

The word "free" in this context doesn't always mean free as in zero price (or "free as in beer," as it's often calleD) -- although most open-source software has no monetary cost. It's "free as in speech," which means that the user can do whatever with the software.

Athelwulf

06-18-06, 12:11 AM

i noticed that my OS becomes unstable when i do an update on it
What OS?

leopold

06-18-06, 07:53 AM

leopold

06-18-06, 07:54 AM

What OS?
windows millenium

Avatar

06-18-06, 08:02 AM

if i am not mistaken linux is created under the GNU license which means you cannot be charged for it. it is in fact free.
Linux is just the kernel, upon that are distributions, which can be either commercial (like Linspire) un non-commerical (like Arch linux).
Companies can charge for support, extra services and in house software, but not for GPL code,
and there is commercial, non-GPL software for Linux too.

One company can employ both of these models, like Red Hat, which has a completely open source community distribution that has to meet Red Hat guidelines - Fedora Core, and the commercial Red Hat (Enterprise) which is an enchanted version and uses Fedora Core as a base upon which Red Hat puts commercial software intended for corporate clients.
In return Red Hat pays professional software engineers to develop GPL code for Fedora Core in addition to the code and design contributions by the community.

leopold

06-18-06, 08:02 AM

p.s. Linux native file systems (EXT2, EXT3, ReiserFS) do not need defragmentation under normal use and this includes any condition with at least 5% of free space on a disk.
i am not familiar with how linux stores files on disk. i assume its linear, one byte after another filling up each sector before starting on the next. under those conditions the only possible way it cannnot become fragmented is if you do not delete any files.

windows doesn't 'need' to be defragmented either but after a long period of time saving and deleting files the disk becomes fragmented. i have never run defrag on this installation of windows. the only time that i run defrag is when i record to a cdr and then its on my downloads disk.

Avatar

06-18-06, 08:13 AM

i am not familiar with how linux stores files on disk. i assume its linear, one byte after another filling up each sector before starting on the next. under those conditions the only possible way it cannnot become fragmented is if you do not delete any files.
Linux filesystems are more efficient than that I'm no software engineer, but here's what I understand from the technical side:
They fragment, but that doesn't slow down the performance, hence no defragmentation is needed.
Linux filesystems use a better clustering algorithm so new files aren't just started in the first available hole, regardless of size. A second factor is that Linux traditionally uses an entire swap partition and not just creating/modifying a swap file on the main partition like Windows, thus most of the fragmentatin that occurs in windows is transfered to a seperate partition specially intended for that. Even when extensive fragmentation occurs, it doesn't affect Linux performance as significantly as Windows.
Thus fragmentation usually can occur only when you have more than 95% of hdd full and generally is a non issue.

Athelwulf

06-19-06, 12:26 AM

windows millenium
Well I figure it would get a bit unstable when you upgrade it, especially if it's a ME to begin with. I'd probably do a clean install of whatever newer OS you wanted, personally.

leopold

06-19-06, 12:52 AM

Well I figure it would get a bit unstable when you upgrade it, especially if it's a ME to begin with. I'd probably do a clean install of whatever newer OS you wanted, personally.
um i said upDATE not upgrade

update is where you go to microsofts website and download security fixes and patches.

upgrade is where you install a newer version of windows over an existing version.

Athelwulf

06-19-06, 12:57 AM

um i said upDATE not upgrade

update is where you go to microsofts website and download security fixes and patches.

upgrade is where you install a newer version of windows over an existing version.
I know the difference. But the first half of what I said must still be mostly true when you substitute "update". So it's all the same. ;)

Athelwulf

06-19-06, 08:53 AM

I have now obtained Mandriva 2006 and Fedora Core 5 CDs (thanks again, "John"). My plan for the time being is to use a portion of the free space on my harddrive to try them out one at a time. I have no real reason to make a long-term deviation from my current XP/Mandriva set-up, especially since I've yet to find a damn driver for my modem.

I'll keep you posted on the problems and stuff I might encounter in the process.

przyk, can you could tell me how much harddrive space Fedora takes up?

przyk

06-19-06, 11:11 AM

Apparently over 9 gigabytes if you do an "everything" install, but that'll include a lot of things you probably won't need. I didn't bother with the details of how much space I would need when I was installing, as I set aside enough space (80 GB) for it not to be an issue.

If you're playing around with different Linux distros, I suppose the BSD's are also worth a mention. I'm thinking of trying out FreeBSD this summer.

Avatar

06-19-06, 11:14 AM

5gb for Fedora should be ok, but I think you can manage 4.
In this aspect Fedora puts too much stuff on the hd for my liking.

Stryder

06-19-06, 12:57 PM

If you're playing around with different Linux distros, I suppose the BSD's are also worth a mention. I'm thinking of trying out FreeBSD this summer.

I liked using FreeBSD, although I had some problems doing upgrades of version "remotely" since it seems that to upgrade you need to be logged in as root at the machine itself. There seemed to be suggestion it could be done remotely, however I usually found it failing and asking the systems Admin to fix the old kernel back in place.

A friend of mine swore by OpenBSD, theres also netBSD.

Do note that BSD isn't a Linux distro, it's actually a flavour of Unix.

przyk

06-19-06, 01:46 PM

A friend of mine swore by OpenBSD, theres also netBSD.
And a few more. Dragonfly BSD supposedly sets itself apart by using a hybrid kernel. I think FreeBSD sounds like the one to start with (and it's the top ranking non-Linux OS on distrowatch.com). From what I've heard, OpenBSD concerns itself mostly with security, and NetBSD with portability.

Do note that BSD isn't a Linux distro, it's actually a flavour of Unix.
Yep, it's why I mentioned them.

Athelwulf

06-19-06, 11:39 PM

I really don't plan on ever doing anything with Unix OSs other than using a Mac. I may have become an OS freak lately, but I don't think I'm that much of a freak. Thanks for the mention though.

RubiksMaster

06-20-06, 03:42 AM

I really don't plan on ever doing anything with Unix OSs other than using a Mac.
Since when was MacOS a flavor of UNIX?

Athelwulf

06-20-06, 04:25 AM

Since when was MacOS a flavor of UNIX?
I thought at least OSX was Unix-based. Or, that's what I've read. :confused:

RubiksMaster

06-20-06, 04:35 AM

If I'm correct (which I may or may not be), OSX uses the XNU kernel, which is only loosely based off of Unix, and therefore not a true Unix. Hell, it even has the acronym "X is Not Unix." ;)

Avatar

06-20-06, 07:48 AM

OSX is based on Unix.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/

przyk

06-20-06, 12:25 PM

I ssh'd into my sister's iBook running MacOSX recently. It's UNIX allright - even had vim installed. No C compiler though.

RubiksMaster

06-20-06, 01:57 PM

Oh, I guess I learn something new every day :D

Athelwulf

06-22-06, 03:15 AM

Am I a genius or what? :D I had the brain juice to realize that I could use my ME to post an update concerning my other computer here on SciForums while I'm doing stuff with it and can't otherwise use the Internet connection.

But anyway, on with the update. I installed Mandriva '06 several minutes ago. It went by very smoothly and gracefully. I split the partition that had Mandriva '05 on it (about 30% of the drive) in half, and put '06 on the newly made partition. Installing was a breeze, literally. It took me an hour for '05 to install, but '06 only took about ten minutes.

Something curious happened when I rebooted the computer after installation. It gave me the same bootloader I had before the installation and gave me the same four options I had before: "linux", "linux-nonfb", "failsafe", and "windows". I started to think that '05 would still boot despite the new installation. "No matter", I thought, because I'm planning on taking off '05 later.

So anyway, I chose "linux", and it loaded '06 instead of '05! So things were working.

I'm gonna start installing Fedora Core 5 over Mandriva '06 in a bit.

I'm curious though: Is there a way to make it so you can have the two versions of Mandriva on the computer and be able to boot both of them? I don't really need to know, since I don't plan on having both, but I guess it would be good to know nonetheless.

Avatar

06-22-06, 03:24 AM

Sure you can, you just have to have two root (/) partitions and configure your bootloader. You can do that from MCC in Mandriva.

p.s. take notice, that if you have one /home for both of them, then KDE might not work 100% right, because newer KDE has settings which are not exactly like those in Mandriva 2005

Athelwulf

06-22-06, 04:20 AM

Fedora problem!

I'll go over the stuff I did.

I booted up with the install CD. I tested all the CDs before I went on with the installation. Then I went through all the pre-installation configuration. I told it to reformat the Mandriva '06 partition and put itself on that one. It gave me a menu to configure the bootloader GRUB. I relabeled "Other" to "Windows" and set it as the default, and added Mandriva '05 to the list. Yada yada. Then it started installing.

After almost ten minutes, it started a restart sequence. It booted off the CD drive, and it wanted to start the process over again.

I manually turned off the computer, took out the CD, and turned it back on. It took me to the same old bootloader with the same old options. I selected "linux". It took me to the Mandriva '06 splash screen, but it won't do anything. Nothing happens in the status bar. So I guess Fedora formatted the partition successfully.

Did I do something wrong?

przyk

06-22-06, 04:42 AM

The first time I tried installing Fedora, the installer froze about 2 minutes before finishing and I had to start over. It doesn't sound like the Fedora installer is too reliable.

Athelwulf

06-22-06, 04:58 AM

The first time I tried installing Fedora, the installer froze about 2 minutes before finishing and I had to start over. It doesn't sound like the Fedora installer is too reliable.
Then why do you use Fedora?

Well, I guess I'll just try again...

Athelwulf

06-22-06, 05:07 AM

It did it again. The exact same thing, at about the same amount of time into the installation.

przyk

06-22-06, 05:12 AM

The rest of Fedora is fine. I only had trouble with the installer once.

RubiksMaster

06-22-06, 01:41 PM

That all happened ten minutes in? That would still be disc 1, correct? Check to make sure it isn't scratched. Wipe it clean, and then retry. So it just restarted for no reason? That's weird. It sounds like a hardware problem, but I know it isn't.

Do you have more than one CD drive? If you do, you should try using the other one.

przyk

06-22-06, 02:39 PM

If there were any problems reading the CD, they'd have been detected during the CD test performed before the installation.

RubiksMaster

06-22-06, 03:22 PM

Maybe he chose to skip the test.

Athelwulf

06-22-06, 09:04 PM

That all happened ten minutes in? That would still be disc 1, correct?
Yup.

Check to make sure it isn't scratched. Wipe it clean, and then retry.
It has quite minimal scratches, so I doubt that's the problem.

Do you have more than one CD drive? If you do, you should try using the other one.
No sir, I don't. :(

Maybe he chose to skip the test.
But I didn't. And all six disks passed. Then again, if the first one is faulty, you can't very well trust the test results for that disk, can you?

Athelwulf

06-23-06, 01:27 AM

Fedora breakthrough!

I tried installing again tonight. I decided to stick mostly with the default choices. I still chose the partition Mandriva '06 was on, and chose Windows as the default OS to boot to. It went ahead with the install. And, as expected, it failed at about the same amout of time in again. I don't know what it was installing the other two times, but this time it was installing "redhat-artwork 0.241-1 i386", which is "artwork for Red Hat default look and feel". That might be important.

I went through it all again, but this time I chose to let it remove all Linux partitions and set itself up with its default layout. This time, it made it past the problem spot!

So far, it's still downloading. In fact, I just put in the second CD. So far so good.

Athelwulf

06-23-06, 01:54 AM

Guys... There are five install CDs, but it was all done after the second one... I'm in Fedora right now, and it appears to be fully functional, despite the fact that the last three install CDs weren't even touched.

:bugeye: What the fuck?

przyk

06-23-06, 03:00 AM

That's normal. If you do a "minimal" or "server" install, I think you only need the first CD (at least this was the case for RH9). There's a lot of software in Fedora Core, and you don't need all of it to get a working system. There are some things (like server daemons) that most home users don't need. Also, if you did a "desktop" install instead of "workstation" there are a bunch of software development tools that might not have been installed on your system. You can optionally install additional packages (eg. if you're a KDE fan) from the install CD's if you want.

Elmer W.

06-23-06, 09:09 AM

is there any one using the debian distros?

Athelwulf

06-23-06, 04:27 PM

Athelwulf

06-24-06, 03:24 AM

Okay, I think I should lay out my final plans for my dual-boot system for people to review and comment on if anything should be added, changed, or pointed out.

I bought a copy of Linux Journal and read this article (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8761) (you need an account at that site to see it). It basically explains how to set up a dual-boot system with a third partition for application data which both OSs can use.

Here's the partition scheme I've worked out for my harddrive:

Total harddrive capacity: 76.2GB
Windows XP NTFS primary partition: 20GB
Mandriva 2006 primary partition: 10GB
Linux swap partition: 1GB
FAT32 partition: 45.2GB

I believe someone mentioned that an additional Linux partition for /home was a good idea, for the reason that doing a fresh install of either Mandriva or another distro won't wipe out my settings and documents. I have a feeling that would be useful for stuff that Windows can't do anything with and that I'd have to keep within Mandriva, if that sort of thing applies. Does that need to be worked into this scheme somehow, or will this current plan do?

Also, concerning my swap: I hope to double my memory soon, meaning I'd have 512MB. Using the RAM-times-two rule of thumb, I have a suitable swap partition. But would it cause me trouble later on in the off chance that I ever need to upgrade to a gigabyte of RAM? Is it bad to have a swap partition that's the same size as your RAM?

leopold

06-24-06, 04:00 AM

if you are a linux user and want to know how to do something with it you can probably find it here:
http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/Linux-HOWTO/

Athelwulf

06-24-06, 04:27 AM

if you are a linux user and want to know how to do something with it you can probably find it here:
http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/Linux-HOWTO/
Hey, that looks like a very useful link. Thanks.

przyk

06-24-06, 06:45 AM

Przyk, got any advice? I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to configure a dial-up connection to the Internet in Fedora. The "Modem Lights" thingy doesn't do anything, and I don't know how to make it work. I've looked in all the menus I could think of, and no luck. I kinda doubt that my modem would be supported anyway, but there should at least be a dialog for configuration.
You're probably missing a driver. At the moment I've got the same problem, and won't have the time or resources to do much about it for another 2 weeks or so. At the moment, all I do with linux is a bit of amateur programming (Linux is a great platform to learn some programming on). That, and I installed some computer algebra systems that could come in handy for my math and physics courses.

Also, if Fedora Core has anything resembling a hardware browser, I haven't found it yet. There should be a network config dialog somewhere (probably system -> administration). you can see if it lets you configure your modem and internet there, but if your modem is unsupported it won't help much.

Sorry I can't help you much. I still don't know Linux that well.

przyk

06-24-06, 07:02 AM

Here's the partition scheme I've worked out for my harddrive:

Total harddrive capacity: 76.2GB
Windows XP NTFS primary partition: 20GB
Mandriva 2006 primary partition: 10GB
Linux swap partition: 1GB
FAT32 partition: 45.2GB
That's a lot of space you've reserved for your FAT32 partition. FAT's good for sharing between the OS's, but other than that I don't recommend you use it too much. It lacks basic features like access permissions that both EXT and NTFS support. If you want to compare, my partitioning looks like this:

102 MB ext2, Fedora Core, mounted on /boot
5 GB FAT32, with Windows 98 installed.
40 GB NTFS, with Windows 2000 installed.
50 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /
20 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /home
5 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /var
2 GB Linux swap.

I find I don't really need to share much between the two OS's - since most of the space on both OS's is large, platform dependent apps, eg. games.

I believe someone mentioned that an additional Linux partition for /home was a good idea, for the reason that doing a fresh install of either Mandriva or another distro won't wipe out my settings and documents. I have a feeling that would be useful for stuff that Windows can't do anything with and that I'd have to keep within Mandriva, if that sort of thing applies. Does that need to be worked into this scheme somehow, or will this current plan do?
It's up to you. I think having a separate home partition is a good idea for the reason you mentioned, but you'd have to find space for it, create the partition, transfer all your files there, and mount it on /home.

Also, concerning my swap: I hope to double my memory soon, meaning I'd have 512MB. Using the RAM-times-two rule of thumb, I have a suitable swap partition. But would it cause me trouble later on in the off chance that I ever need to upgrade to a gigabyte of RAM? Is it bad to have a swap partition that's the same size as your RAM?
It won't cause any problems; it just makes sense to have more swap than RAM.

Xerxes

06-24-06, 02:13 PM

Alot of space on fat32? Pfffff that's nothing, I've got a 260GB fat32 partition.

Athelwulf

06-24-06, 04:44 PM

That's a lot of space you've reserved for your FAT32 partition. FAT's good for sharing between the OS's, but other than that I don't recommend you use it too much. It lacks basic features like access permissions that both EXT and NTFS support.
I could certainly trim it down. I don't have a lot of shit to put there anyway.

102 MB ext2, Fedora Core, mounted on /boot
5 GB FAT32, with Windows 98 installed.
40 GB NTFS, with Windows 2000 installed.
50 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /
20 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /home
5 GB ext3, Fedora Core, mounted on /var
2 GB Linux swap.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind this scheme. Specifically, why have /boot on the first partition, and /var on its own?

przyk

06-24-06, 05:17 PM

I'd like to know the reasoning behind this scheme. Specifically, why have /boot on the first partition, and /var on its own?
I put /boot on its own at the beginning of the drive because some BIOSes have trouble booting after cylinder 1024 on the harddisk. My PCs quite new (2 years old or so) so I doubt I'd have had problems if I hadn't. I was just playing safe.

/var contains most of the server stuff, like mail if your computer is acting as a mail server or posts if its a news server. When I arranged the partition scheme a couple of years ago, I wanted to allow for the possibility that I might open up some network services. Putting /var on a separate partition gives some protection against denial-of-service attacks; someone mailbombing a server set up this way can fill up /var, but not the rest of the system.

Athelwulf

06-24-06, 06:30 PM

Thanks for the explaination przyk.

I have a reworked scheme. It's basically one third to each OS with the remaining third used for my cross-platform application data:

Windows XP NTFS partition: 25GB
Mandriva 2006 partition: 10GB (/home)
Mandriva 2006 partition: 15GB (/)
Linux swap partition: 1GB
FAT32 partition: 25.2GB (/share)

Avatar

06-25-06, 03:53 AM

Switch /home and / space places. You won't need 15gb for root.

leopold

06-25-06, 04:01 AM

I've got a 260GB fat32 partition.
and what, pray tell, do you use it for?

Xerxes

06-25-06, 11:05 AM

piracy, you wouldn't believe how much one can download in a month.

przyk

06-25-06, 11:09 AM

Which OS(es) do you use? Do you use FAT32 exclusively?

Athelwulf

06-25-06, 05:35 PM

Got my reworked dual-boot system up and running, and it's working quite well. :D

przyk

06-25-06, 05:39 PM

So what's your general impression of Linux so far?

Athelwulf

06-25-06, 11:13 PM

Well, I don't know how to answer, really. I haven't used Linux much so far because I can't use the Internet through it yet. As far as the terminal, it feels like I theoretically have so much power over the OS, which is kinda kool; at the same time, however, I feel ignorant because I know little about command-line interfaces. Other than that, I got no answers.

I can get back to you on that question later.

dexter

06-26-06, 12:14 AM

OpenBSD is fun if your looking for a challenge, FreeBSD is fun if your looking for something different, and slackware linux is fun if your looking for trouble.

leopold

06-26-06, 02:25 AM

piracy, you wouldn't believe how much one can download in a month.
yeah as a matter of fact i do.
i go through between 30 and 40 cdr's a month
surely you don't keep everything you download on your harddrive do you?

Athelwulf

06-26-06, 03:31 AM

przyk

06-26-06, 08:09 AM

leopold

06-26-06, 09:19 AM

Exactly what are you two pirating that uses all that storage space? :eek:
there is some stuff i pirate but not very much.
i have 3 or 4 apps that i have pirated and i never use them.
the rest comes from download servers that i find.
i am in the process of downloading a server now. i have approx. 50 cdr's full from that site.

i also download a boatload of videos from the internet archive. i have 30 or 40 cdr's from that site.

the rest comes from various places on the web.

Xerxes

06-26-06, 01:37 PM

Which OS(es) do you use? Do you use FAT32 exclusively?

Gentoo Linux, and WoW OS...err I mean windows XP with WoW installed on it.

leopold99,
Are you flippin insane? Buy a dvdrw drive.

Actually I keep mostly a combination of archived media/files - things like lossless classical music which take up a lot of HD space. documentaries, DEMs (digital elevation maps,) important files etc - then stuff which is either to be burned or deleted.

Keeping such files on a seperate disk is smart, because they're not tied to an OS, only a filesystem.

Athelwulf,
There's so much stuff to download from the newsgroups.

Here's my recommendation, Athelwulf:
Your POS computer is making this a bad experience. Buy and build a new one using midrange parts. Get a cheapo nvidia video card, decent motherboard/processor, a gig of RAM, hadrive (which is quite cheap these days) whatever else you need and, using the Gentoo installation handbook, install Gentoo Linux. It's easier than anyone mandrake of fedora recommending dork will ever admit. Takes longer, but you will be satisfied.

Avatar

06-26-06, 05:42 PM

Are you flippin insane? Buy a dvdrw drive.
If one dvd breaks, I lose ~4.2gb
If one cd breaks, I lose ~ 700mb

leopold

06-26-06, 07:47 PM

Are you flippin insane? Buy a dvdrw drive.

i second what avatar said plus i only have a 18GB harddrive
the way i have my drive partitioned i can't store enough files to fill a double layer dvd.

przyk

06-27-06, 11:01 AM

If one dvd breaks, I lose ~4.2gb
If one cd breaks, I lose ~ 700mb
But you'd need more CD's, which could increase the probability of losing or breaking a disk.

Avatar

06-27-06, 11:17 AM

They're all stored in one place anyway, the problem is that discs degrade over time.
Anyway I don't feel the need for a dvd burner. Heck, I don't even have a dvd rom connected to the pc (although I have one in the drawer, but I don't own any dvd's).

Stryder

06-27-06, 05:16 PM

Avatar, Just make 2 copies of your data on DVD. If one breaks, hopefully you would have kept the other somewhere nice and safe (literally in a Safe etc)

Avatar

06-27-06, 05:21 PM

I once set a 100 cd tower of documentaries on fire, was uncareful where I put incense. Luckily enough all the cd's survived, although the casing partially melted. :D

It's an advice as well as any, Stryder, but I don't feel like spending 30 quid for a dvd burner when I can spend nil and continue to burn cd's.

leopold

06-27-06, 05:44 PM

know of any good freeware cd catalog programs?

i have discovered a great way to name cd's.
some cd's will have an obvious name but others aren't so obvious or have so many programs on them that you can't name it.
i found this freeware dice program that you can vary the number of dice rolled and the number of faces on each die.
whenever i am ready to burn cd's i also open the dice program. set it to roll 5 dice, each die with 99 faces.
when the burner program asks for a label i hit the roll button on the dice program about 5 or 6 times.
the number that is displayed i use as the cd label. if the digits 1 through 9 appear on a face i insert a 0 to make 2 digits.

an alternative to this scheme would be to use the date as the first 6 numbers and the dice program for the last four.

Avatar

06-27-06, 05:48 PM

Not really, I use my brain memory for cataloguing purposes, but I'll ask one friend of mine, he uses one for his collection.

Xerxes

06-28-06, 06:17 PM

If one dvd breaks, I lose ~4.2gb
If one cd breaks, I lose ~ 700mb

I second Stryder.

Any important data should be stored on a good hardrive, and possibly mirrored on the internet. Hard drives are cheap cheap cheap. My 320gb seagate cost only $110CAD.

Good DVDs are just as reliable as CD-Rs and cost about the same. Consider the DVD-RW as an investment. The money/space you save will have be more than worth it in a few years..

leopold

06-28-06, 09:31 PM

I second Stryder.

Any important data should be stored on a good hardrive,
i disagree.
any data that is worth backing up should be stored in 2 physically seperate locations. one copy at home and the other at work. if your home is your work then store the other in a safe deposit box or other physically seperate location.
and further more if it is critical or sensitive it should be encrypted.

Xerxes

06-28-06, 09:38 PM

and possibly mirrored on the internet.

Most of my data is not that important, but I do use the internet for backup.

If you want real reliabity, try something like Amazons' S3.

firdroirich

07-05-06, 05:05 AM

I have dual boot SuSE 9.2 & XP

This is how I did it.

This is usually only on older machines, but ,in Bios make sure "boot from CD" or CD/HDD/ ...

Turned machine on with Ultimate Boot Disk (or similiar, such as Hiren's boot disk) in the CD drive. info.. (http://www.ubcd4win.com/faq.htm)
-Navigated to partition tools
-Created 15 Gig ReiserFS partition info on reiserFS (http://www.namesys.com/)
-Marked it as active
-Rebooted

Placed SuSE linux cd in tray
SuSE installer was graphical, self-explanatory.
GrubLoader configuration automatic, opted to mount "My Music" 40Gig NTFS partition on startup.

Everything works mint

Nvidia FX4400, 256MB drivers auto- detected
AcctonW2401 wireless card detected I manually updated driver though
AC97 built in audio auto-detected. Had no audio, but a trip to the Alsa (http://www.alsa-project.org/) homepage took care of that.
SOHW 801s DVD RW, upgraded firmware with omnipatcher (http://codeguys.rpc1.org/patchers.html) to 802s, works fine in SuSE.

Had to update video driver to get video to work. Mplayer or Real for linux.
Xgl (http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/) would'nt work - only on 10.1 I think - any ideas?
YAST takes care hardware configurations etc, YOU (YAST Online Update) for updates & it tells you the ones you have to manually do,
or which dependencies etc are needed.

Pretty good for my uses . Apache, MySql, learning C++

But if you just wanted to have a peek try out LiveCDs or VMWare, you get virtualisations for just about every OS now that will work from within XP. I use FreeBSD

If you think you dont' want to dual-boot anymore & would like to use 1 operating system - format the windows partition hehe, ;) reclaim space with fdisk in console

...if you're not quite there yet format linux,
-reboot with bootcd or one with fdisk.exe on it , alternative is FreeFdisk (http://www.23cc.com/free-fdisk/)

Drive Letter:\fdisk /mbr

Clean slate.

All you have is 1 partition with WinXp again, to try out another distro.