Bruce Lee: Really dead?

[seekeroftheway]

I know this kinda doesn't fit in the eastern philosophy section, but my ideas on this are based on my philosophy on...everything.

So, the textbooks tell us he died, but no one knows why. Some think he was struck by the quiverring palm technique, others that he OD'd (this particular theory insults me), and one theory I've heard is that he became TOO strong. If such a thing is possible. The idea that his body broke down under the weight of the power he was giving it from the stress he put it under.

However, I in particular am of a certain rather radical group of die hard fans that don't believe he died. There is one last theory stating that he feigned his own death, to EVERYONE, his wife, his children, the media, all of it, and just disappeared. If this is so, it is almost certainly for some spiritual purpose (that or the government forced him to disappear so he could go do something for them, they had Muhammad Ali try to free a bunch of hostages from Lebanon without anyone knowing). Perhaps he reached a point in his training where he realize that for him to proceed, he would have to be free of his image as "King of Kung Fu".

So, what do you people think?

[spidergoat]

I am pretty sure he's really dead, but the exact cause is a mystery. He did complain of a headache, which makes me think it was some medical problem, and seems to rule out murder.

[VitalOne]

Who knows, I was thinking the samething a few days ago, I thought he got poisoned or something..

[DiamondHearts]

I heard that he died in his girlfriend's house by taking drugs, but I don't think anyone has proved that. I believe he was poisoned by someone.

Bruce Lee was a great man and I hear he was really nice from people who have met him.

[cato]

I would say that he died of a coke OD, but that would just be a guess. however, why was it that he flicked his nose so much? and considering the era, it would not be a stretch.

[seekeroftheway]

Since when has he flicked his nose so much? And you might consider the quiverring palm technique a poison. It's essentially projecting massive amounts of energy from the hand into the body, and it gradually causes ruptures that break down the vital processes. It takes extreme discipline, obviously...a few higher level martial artists theorized or knew about a certain cult that thought bruce lee was becoming too powerful, and so they assassinated him with just that technique. If you watch Fist of Fear, Touch of Death, it touches on this.

[Light]

Since when has he flicked his nose so much? And you might consider the quiverring palm technique a poison. It's essentially projecting massive amounts of energy from the hand into the body, and it gradually causes ruptures that break down the vital processes. It takes extreme discipline, obviously...a few higher level martial artists theorized or knew about a certain cult that thought bruce lee was becoming too powerful, and so they assassinated him with just that technique. If you watch Fist of Fear, Touch of Death, it touches on this.
I remember when it happened but few of the details. I also seem to recall that his family refused to have an autopsy performed or perhaps it was a refusal to make the results public. IF that is true, it probably means that they knew full well what killed him and didn't want to tarnish his image.

[cato]

yeah, the reason I guess o.d. was because they didn't autopsy him, the nose flicking wasn't really serious.

[The Devil Inside]

also, cocaine overdose is rarely from sniffing. in most cases, it comes as a result of injection.

[phlogistician]

However, I in particular am of a certain rather radical group of die hard fans that don't believe he died.

He's dead, cocaine overdose. His sifu, Yip Man, died of throat cancer, and it wasn't always just tobacco in his pipe, either.

If you won't accept that Lee used drugs, you need to ask yourself why. You obviously have romanticised him into some sort of messiah and applied to him your criteria of what makes someone perfect.

He, and Elvis, have both left this mortal coil. Deal with it.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

"bruce" (thats not even his real name) died after taking western medicine that he was allergic to, simular to a pain killer, he went to lie down and rest and never woke up,



peace.

[phlogistician]

"bruce" (thats not even his real name) died after taking western medicine that he was allergic to, simular to a pain killer, he went to lie down and rest and never woke up,


The 'Tylenol' story. Don't believe it. Bruce was a well known Cocaine user. He was given the 'Bruce' at birth, but didn't use it until later, so actually, his real name _was_ Bruce, and he went by various different names when younger.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

his real name was, lee jun fan.

and where is your source for this information, is it a respectable source?

i wont believe it untill i see the proof, there is good evidence and wittness to support the allergic reaction,


could i see the source please.


peace.

[phlogistician]

his real name was, lee jun fan.

and where is your source for this information, is it a respectable source?

i wont believe it untill i see the proof, there is good evidence and wittness to support the allergic reaction,


could i see the source please.


peace.

Go read a biography.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

yes i have,

but i was just asking where your infomation came from, i would like to see the source, i will go get the sources of the information that i stated about the allergic reaction,

we will just compare sources quickly if thats ok with you?

peace.

[phlogistician]

Tell you what, you start with 'his real name wasn't Bruce'.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

his chinese name is what his family would want him to go by, (his chinese family)


anyway if he wanted to be called bruce then ok,


but where did you get the information about bruce dying of a cocaine overdose? can i see your sources please,

peace.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

lee jun fan.

[BLASTOFF]

bruce lee's real name was lee jun fan, also known in his world as little dragon and not just for the film's. it was also said that he died of a simple pain killer, no fancy martial art move/chop or the crap they printed when he passed.

[seekeroftheway]

Again, all just theories. The autopsy reports were never released, as said, so we honestly can't really know what killed him if anything, it comes down to point of view (everything comes down to point of view...).

[Light]

Again, all just theories. The autopsy reports were never released, as said, so we honestly can't really know what killed him if anything, it comes down to point of view (everything comes down to point of view...).
And just what conclusions would you draw from the fact that the autopsy report was not made public, eh? I seriously believe that most people would agree it was because there was something they wanted to keep hidden. So that becomes much more than just a viewpoint.

[seekeroftheway]

And I suppose you have proof than autopsy was even done?

[phlogistician]

And I suppose you have proof than autopsy was even done?

Autopsies are always performed when people die suddenly, to ascertain or rule out the possibility of foul play. There would always be a coroners report, even if the circumstances were obvious, and a piano had fallen on his head.

Is anybody, Seeker, Empty, denying the Lee was a cocaine user, btw?

[QuarkMoon]

Wow, this thread makes me laugh. Bruce Lee was assasinated via a secret kung fu technique that pushes chi energy into someone's body and causes ruptures? Are we talking about real life or a Jackie Chan movie? An OD is the likely cause of death, although I've heard that he died during a stunt in one of his movies.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

bruce lee's real name was lee jun fan, also known in his world as little dragon and not just for the film's. it was also said that he died of a simple pain killer, no fancy martial art move/chop or the crap they printed when he passed.



correct.


peace.

[phlogistician]

So is anyone denying Lee was a cocaine user?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

no we arent denying that,


just asking where you got your infomation from regarding that lee died from cocain abuse, and didnt die from western medicine that he was allergic to,


where are these sources please,


peace.

[seekeroftheway]

Obviously, I can't technically DENY that he was a cocaine user without proof, but I strongly, strongly oppose the idea. The philosophies he always expressed and the dedication he had to his health and his training wouldn't warrant the use of drugs, at all, ever. In fact, if anyone can list any symptoms of cocaine use that were readily apparent on him, and where, then go for it.

[seekeroftheway]

Wow, this thread makes me laugh. Bruce Lee was assasinated via a secret kung fu technique that pushes chi energy into someone's body and causes ruptures? Are we talking about real life or a Jackie Chan movie? An OD is the likely cause of death, although I've heard that he died during a stunt in one of his movies.


Firstly, it's not secret, lots of people know about it, just few people know how to do it, and it's a theory that's been expressed by people, are you actually reading the whole post?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

seeker although i like your motivation about martial arts,

you have a few things mixed up, if you study and practice Qi methods and Qi gong,
you will find yourself that Qi energy cannot be used in this way,

yes you can use Qi to dissrupt a persons energy wich has little effect over time, but you have mystical elements confused with real facts,

im not burstng your bubble here but you cannot use a Qi strike to kill somebody, i know many martial arts masters that i train with, from shaolin monks to taiji masters, militant systemma fighters, ninpo masters, ninjutsu students, muay thai kru's and many many others,

i have trained in martial arts for 17 years, i have learned a great deal about all styles from all cultures, i have alot to learn still myself, i teach self defence to police officers and other high ranking people, and i have t tell you the truth, you cannot kill somebody with a Qi "blast" i watch dragonball Z myself but thats where i leave that kind of martial ability, its not real, Dim Mak is about the closest you will get to death touches, but most dim mak teachers are fakes aswell,

you really have to understand that martial arts is very deadly in the right hands, but you cant shoot Qi balls at peoples asses goku son,

lee jun fan simply died of an alergic reaction to western medicine, no death touch no killer shaolin monks because he was teaching the gwai lo. sorry to dissapoint.


keep practising taiji, and other martial arts, but when you realise your own limitations then you will proggress better,


peace.

peace.

[seekeroftheway]

Actually, I never said it was a chi technique, that was quark moon...has anyone decided to watch Fist of Fear, Touch of Death? Because in that it says the autopsy reports didn't turn anything up. At all. The cause of death was unidentified to this day.

Lastly, even if I had said it was a chi technique, you wouldn't be "bursting my bubble", because if you look at the first post, I don't think he actually died (call me whatever you like).

[EmptyForceOfChi]

sorry,

peace.

[jax0509]

the official verdict was that he had an adverse reaction to asprin which caused his brain to swell, what a way to go for perhaps the finest martial arts actor ever

[seekeroftheway]

That's the irony with that theory, is that for his entire life he stuck with taoist principles and natural healing and what not, and then the one time he takes western medicine it kills him.

[Hapsburg]

the official verdict was that he had an adverse reaction to asprin which caused his brain to swell, what a way to go for perhaps the finest martial arts actor ever
I thought he was assassinated by some martial-arts cult who thought he went too far revealing old martial arts secrets to the westerners? That's what I heard.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

anyways about his movies, they all kinda suck,

they are slow and shitty all of them they look like a bunch of amatures in the old movies,

"bruce" is much better to watch during his demonstrations and other live footage, you cant see his full skill level in those movies,

i cant even sit through a whole flick of his nowdays, its to slow and crappy camera angles,




peace.

[seekeroftheway]

I get them just to watch the fight scenes over and over again. Sure, it's not his best, but that doesn't mean it isn't awesome.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

just my opinion,


meh i dont care for the fight scenes, the camera angles annoy me alot compared to other flicks, bruce was good, but we was no better than your average shaolin student to be honest,


a shaolin elder monk would have still kicked his ass all over the place at his prime,


peace,

[jax0509]

just my opinion,


meh i dont care for the fight scenes, the camera angles annoy me alot compared to other flicks, bruce was good, but we was no better than your average shaolin student to be honest,


a shaolin elder monk would have still kicked his ass all over the place at his prime,


peace,

dont forget that was the best that they could use in those days, all the fighting was his own whereas nowthe martial arts stars can use CGI and wires to do things that make them look unbelievable

[WWu777]

So is anyone denying Lee was a cocaine user?

W: WHat do you mean? What proof is there that he used cocaine? Can I see the source?

And if he did, then why didn't the autopsy find any cocaine? It only found some cannibas in his stomach, which could have been caused by drinking tea.

[phlogistician]

W: WHat do you mean? What proof is there that he used cocaine? Can I see the source?

And if he did, then why didn't the autopsy find any cocaine? It only found some cannibas in his stomach, which could have been caused by drinking tea.

No, because the source is dead. If you knew anyone that knew him, you'd know he was a cocaine user.

And you don't get Cannabis inside you from drinking tea. You get Cannabis inside you from taking Cannabis.

[Hapsburg]

What proof is there that he used cocaine?
Well, it was the 1970's...


a shaolin elder monk would have still kicked his ass all over the place at his prime
Bah, shotgun would kick both thier asses in even less time. 'Specially a SPAS-12, semiautomatic.

[The Devil Inside]

No, because the source is dead. If you knew anyone that knew him, you'd know he was a cocaine user.

And you don't get Cannabis inside you from drinking tea. You get Cannabis inside you from taking Cannabis.

actually, you can ingest marijuana byproducts as well.

[seekeroftheway]

No, because the source is dead. If you knew anyone that knew him, you'd know he was a cocaine user.

And you don't get Cannabis inside you from drinking tea. You get Cannabis inside you from taking Cannabis.


I suppose you know someone that knew Bruce Lee?

[seekeroftheway]

Well, it was the 1970's...

Your point? This is hardly proof .

[seekeroftheway]

A quote from the Coroner(s) after the autopsy.

"Cannabis is no more significant than if he had had a cup of tea that day."

"The only foreign substance was the Equagesic."

Equagesic being the medicine he supposedly took for his headache on the day of his death. The autopsy report says that his brain swelled from 1400 to 1575 grams. This, I'm sorry to disappoint, is NOT a symptom of Cocaine use, so we can safely rule that out.


(www.allbrucelee.com/article/mystery_of_bruce_lee.htm)

[seekeroftheway]

R.D. Teare, a professor of forensic medicine at the University of London who had overseen more than 90,000 autopsies, was called in and declared that it was basically impossible for the cannabis to be a factor in Lee's death. In Teare's opinion, the edema was caused by hypersensitivity to either meprobamate or aspirin, or a combination of both. His view was accepted by authorities, and a determination of "misadventure" was stamped on Lee's death.

[seekeroftheway]

(www.allbrucelee.com/article/mystery_of_bruce_lee.htm)

[Hapsburg]

Your point? This is hardly proof .
Never said it was fucking proof. However, considering the times, in the 1970s, a lot of people did cocaine, so why wouldn't he, especially since Bruce Lee was a celebrity?

[seekeroftheway]

Because, if you've ever seen any interviews or seen The Man, The Myth, he says himself that Martial Arts is an essential part of Taoism and Buddhism, in some of his interviews he states that he at least draws principles from these Philosophies, both of which DISDAIN ANY HARMFUL FOREIGN SUBSTANCE, including drugs. They seek harmony and peace by unison with nature, DRUGS AREN'T NATURAL. Bruce Lee spent most of his life abstaining from Western Medicine because he believed more in natural healing, he often had smoothies full of vegetables and fruits, he was dedicated to keeping his mind and body at full strength.

With all of this, how can anyone really think he died of a drug overdose?

[phlogistician]

A quote from the Coroner(s) after the autopsy.

"Cannabis is no more significant than if he had had a cup of tea that day."

As significant, ie, nody has reportedly died from tea, or cannabis overdoses, but the tea, was not the source of the cannabis.


"The only foreign substance was the Equagesic."

Equagesic being the medicine he supposedly took for his headache on the day of his death. The autopsy report says that his brain swelled from 1400 to 1575 grams.

But oddly, the pain killer Lee took is exactly what is prescribed for Cerebral Edema (swelling of the brain) it being an anti inflammatory, so it's not likely that this was the cause of the swelling. What is more likely, is that Lee imbibed Cocaine cut with Methamphetamine, and it was the latter that caused the Edema.

[seekeroftheway]

That's entirely assumptuous, you, as of yet, haven't presented any evidence to support that, just speculation.

[seekeroftheway]

Dr. R.R. Lycette of Queen Elizabeth Hospital viewed Lee's death as a hypersensitivity to one or more of the compounds found in the headache tablet he consumed that afternoon. Although his skull showed no injury, his brain had swollen considerably, from 1,400 to 1,575 grams. None of the blood vessels were blocked or broken, so the possibility of a hemorrhage was ruled out. All of Lee's internal organs were meticulously examined, and the only "foreign" substance to be found was the Equagesic.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

No, because the source is dead. If you knew anyone that knew him, you'd know he was a cocaine user.

And you don't get Cannabis inside you from drinking tea. You get Cannabis inside you from taking Cannabis.



i didnt want to mention this before, because people will not believe me, but whatever i will say it,

i actually know somebody who knew bruce first hand, and about the weed, yeah he did smoke weed quite alot i have been told,

your right about that 1, but about the cocaine i am unsure, but i wont rule it out without proof,


peace.

[The Devil Inside]

marijuana though, will not cause death in the way he was officially declared to have died.

[seekeroftheway]

In any event, he also quoted(at the time surrounding his death) that if he were to die, he would have no regrets, he'd done what he wanted to do. He couldn't imagine growing old and losing his physical abilities. So maybe he took it deliberately and it was suicide?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

well he was very allergic to that type of pain killer, and he took some of them then went to lie down and never woke up,


personaly to me it looks like an open and shut case, he was not supposed to consume that medicine and he did, then died.

maybe thats wrong, but to me it seems logical,

peace.

[phlogistician]

i didnt want to mention this before, because people will not believe me, but whatever i will say it,

i actually know somebody who knew bruce first hand, and about the weed, yeah he did smoke weed quite alot i have been told,

I believe you Empty, considering we both know other members of his lineage.


your right about that 1, but about the cocaine i am unsure, but i wont rule it out without proof,
peace.

Well, Sifu Yip Man liked his pipe, so it's not unheard of for 'respectable' martial artists to use drugs recreationally, is it?

[Mrhero54]

This what I heard:

Bruce Lee died from an allergic reaction to peanuts. He got a headache and his wife accidentally gave him something with a small amount of peanuts in it. Some say this caused a regular headache to become a severe headache, which may have caused him to do something uncharacteristic-take headache medicine. One common symptom of brain trauma is drowsiness, the brain swelling caused by the peanut reaction could have made him sleepy and if you add Tylenol or whatever medicine to the mix…Instead of going to the hospital, Bruce opted to take a nap...this was the fatal mistake. Had he stayed awoke, the pain or discomfort may have caused him to go to the hospital where his life may have been saved.


Allergic Peanut reactions kill 50 to 100 people a year. A kiss from someone who eat peanut butter crackers can kill someone allergic to peanuts.http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001961/41/ (http://Killed by Peanut Kiss)

I'm not subscribing to this belief, I don't know. But it makes sense....

No unnatural substances
Brain swelling was a fact
Went to sleep
Peanuts kill quickly

BUT
If it was an OD than its easy to believe why they wouldn't want to tarnish his image in the autopsy.

This theory was the first mention I heard of Bruce being allergic to peanuts.

Comments?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I believe you Empty, considering we both know other members of his lineage.



Well, Sifu Yip Man liked his pipe, so it's not unheard of for 'respectable' martial artists to use drugs recreationally, is it?


i would say 7/10 chinese martial arts masters smoke weed or drink it in tea. the shaolin tend to stay away from it, but many martial artists do smoke it in china,

its a common thing,

peace.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

i did not know he was allergic to peanuts,


peace

[seekeroftheway]

That's why it's a theory.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

i didnt know it was even a theory untill now,


peace.

[Harlequin]

Bruce Lee is alive and well, and currently living in the Nevada Desert in a homosexual relationship with Buddy Holly, who did not die in a plane crash as reported.
They have purchased a ranch in Partnership with Elvis Presley and Glenn Miller.

The government will "disappear" anyone who comes within ten miles though, as the ranch, combined with the groups private finances are currently paying for a CIA operation underway in Nepal.

[seekeroftheway]

Let's try and get a photo of that area and see if there was an "error" then.

[TC7]

I'm surprised you all said there was no autopsy taken on Bruce. There was indeed an autopsy taken, and I have seen his autopsy report and reviewed it with physicians. Although it is unclear what caused his cerebral edema, after reviewing the autopsy report, it appears he was poisoned.

I never bought the "Equagesic" story, and I don't think I ever will... his collapse on May 10 was similar to his collapse July 20 (the day he died) and there was no equagesic tablet taken on May 10.

[TC7]

phlogistician, I have done research on Bruce's death and cocaine OD was not the cause. Furthermore, he did not use cocaine-- at least none was ever found in his system. I also know people who knew Bruce and they confirmed he was not a cocaine user. The only "illegal" drug he used was cannabis, and he ate the leaves (did not smoke it).

Furthermore, cocaine does not cause the symptoms Bruce suffered for the last 6-8 months of his life.

[darksidZz]

Bruce Lee

He was a great man, a genius in his own time, aside from those facts he also sucked at acting, and I mean badly. Return of the Dragon was his best work, the others are laughable.

How'd he die? He died I've heard by taking medicine that was prescribed for another person, it reacted to his system and killed him off. There was some speculation he was at the females apartment cheating on his wife, that soon they would break up and she'd be alone. I'm uncertain but there is some supporting evidence for this... consider the terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, movie The Last Dragon. It was so bad as to make me throw up...

Linda Lee was completely insane, she let them change real events and fictionalize his entire life like a storybook aka The Bible.

I feel sorry for this cow Linda, she deserves to die for her insulting film on her husband, despite that I feel she did it as a message, that he wasn't better than she was, she had the power, I think she killed him for cheating.

[[a-5]]

Quivering Palm?: I'm a third degree black belt in Kung-Fu, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Jiu-jit-su, Ninjustsu, and Muay Thai and I haven't heard of a Quivering Palm...I'm assuming that's a Energy transfer technique?

[one_raven]

Someone should move this crap out of Eastern Philosophy.

Where do crackpot, conspiracy theories belong?
Not here - that's certain.

[temur]

I heard that Bruse Lee dead fr om a gunshot. The same as his son Brandon Lee. It is strange father and son share the same death.

[one_raven]

I heard that Bruse Lee dead fr om a gunshot. The same as his son Brandon Lee. It is strange father and son share the same death.

You heard wrong.

Elvis is still alive too, isn't he?

Bruce Lee died of a Cerebral edema, likely caused by a simple reaction to Equagesic - a pain pill.

[TC7]

one_raven, as I said in an above post, it is very unlikely that his cerebral edema was caused by an allergic reaction to the equagesic pill. He was dying before he took that pill. How would you explain Bruce's May 10 collapse in which he took no pill? He developed a cerebral edema on that day also. Additionally, he had been getting bad headaches for quite some time and had gradually become sicker and sicker up to the point of his death. He had lost about 30 lbs. unwantingly as well and became hypoglycemic. As I said, I have reviewed his autopsy report with other physicians and am convinced that Bruce died from some sort of long term poison... very likely foul play-- and very possibly the triads that Bruce had made enemies with. His autopsy report shows far more than a cerebral edema. The man suffered multiple organ failure. He had pulmonary edema, the alveoli in his lungs were drenched in blood, his occipital lobe was drenched in blood from where blood vessels had burst in his brain, his kidneys had broken and bloody vessels, and his liver, pancreas, and colon were congested as well.

By the way, I can see how this thread may fit into eastern philosophy... given that Bruce had an amazing philosophy of his view of the martial arts that continues to inspire many across the world today including me.

Take care.

[one_raven]

By the way, I can see how this thread may fit into eastern philosophy... given that Bruce had an amazing philosophy of his view of the martial arts that continues to inspire many across the world today including me.

Me as well.
I have his book (well, Linda's book, really - he did not want the book published because he did not consider it done).

So start a thread on JKD in here.
This thread has nothing to do with philosophy - his or anyone else's.

[Oniw17]

phlogistician, I have done research on Bruce's death and cocaine OD was not the cause. Furthermore, he did not use cocaine-- at least none was ever found in his system.

Cocaine leaves your system in 2 days, I believe.

[one_raven]

Cocaine leaves your system in 2 days, I believe.

What does that have to do with the autopsy of a dead man suggesting that he did not OD on cocaine?
If he did OD, it was obviously less than 2 days before the time of death.
Maybe I don't understand what you are sayinjg.

[Oniw17]

What does that have to do with the autopsy of a dead man suggesting that he did not OD on cocaine?
If he did OD, it was obviously less than 2 days before the time of death.
Maybe I don't understand what you're saying
Nothing to do with ODing, just that he could've used coke.

[one_raven]

Nothing to do with ODing, just that he could've used coke.
OH!
Got it.

With his obsession over physical fitness, training and self-control - I doubt it.
Though it is certainly possible he could have been trying to keep up with the Hollywood crowd.

[Oniw17]

OH!
Got it.

With his obsession over physical fitness, training and self-control - I doubt it.
Though it is certainly possible he could have been trying to keep up with the Hollywood crowd.

Plus it would explain how he was able to workout so much.

[one_raven]

Plus it would explain how he was able to workout so much.

Being in constant training since he was four years old doesn't explain it sufficiently?:bugeye:

[RickyH]

cerebral edema (cause is unknown) sorry if it's been said before. but that's the only legitimate reason i have heard of

[Oniw17]

I guess.
Being in constant training since he was four years old doesn't explain it sufficiently?

[TC7]

Oniw17, it wouldn't make sense that Bruce was a cocaine user because he never manifested the physical symptoms of being a cocaine user. For example, Bruce's resting heart rate was on average around twenty something beats per minute (extremely low!) In fact, at UCLA facilities where he got his June 1973 physical it was also very low. A cocaine user would have a higher than normal heart beat.

Bruce worked out hard, but that's very possible without drugs. Look at Olympic gymnasts and marathon runners and such. They don't use drugs, yet they push their bodies to the limits. Bruce was no different... and he was a very serious, dedicated, and disciplined martial artist, which is why he pushed himself so hard.

Bruce actually stopped working out the last few months of his life (as he was told to by physicians). He had become lethargic and a bit ill and had lost a large amount of weight for no apparent reason. He was under enormous pressure and he had definitely overworked himself. He became an insomniac the last year of his life and was experiencing frequent mood changes, depression, and anxiety attacks according to some loved ones. For those reasons, it is VERY possible Bruce used some sort of tranquilizer to relax him (and by very possible, I mean he DID use tranquilizers). I don't believe any were illegal (other than the marijuana, which actually isn't even a tranquilizer), but I do believe he became overdependent on them.

[TC7]

Originally Posted by one_raven:
Me as well.
I have his book (well, Linda's book, really - he did not want the book published because he did not consider it done).

So start a thread on JKD in here.
This thread has nothing to do with philosophy - his or anyone else's.

That's a good point you made, one_raven. I agree, someone should start a JKD thread here and discuss Bruce's philosophy, which is very connected with Eastern philosophy. By the way, I also own the book you are talking about.

[temur]

Is it true that Bruce Lee's son died by the same cause? May be it runs in the family.

[Oniw17]

Is it true that Bruce Lee's son died by the same cause? May be it runs in the family.
His son was shot while filming the Crow I believe.

[redarmy11]

By a film critic.

[The Devil Inside]

His son was shot while filming the Crow I believe.

the scene in the "criminal board room". the shot was left in the film.

[Oli]

Really?

So which scene was being filmed at the time?
Filming was taking place in the loft set (Eric and Shelley's apartment). The scene in question is near the beginning of the film, when T-Bird, Funboy and the others 'pay Eric & Shelley a visit' and kill Eric. Funboy (Michael Massee) points a gun at Eric and fires. The shot injures Brandon Lee who later died of his injuries.
http://www.thecrow.info/accident.htm


Claim: The scene in which Brandon Lee was fatally wounded was left in the final cut of The Crow.
Status: False.
http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/brandlee.htm

[Rick]

He's dead, but the art survives.

[temur]

Does this mean Bruce Lee was also shot during filming?

[one_raven]

Does this mean Bruce Lee was also shot during filming?

No.
Why wouild it mean that?
It said nothing at all about Bruce.

[phlogistician]

Does this mean Bruce Lee was also shot during filming?


No, it was Bruce Lee's son, Brandon, that got shot dead during filming of 'The Crow'.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

the shaolin masters killed jun fan and his son brandon with a Kameamea wave for teaching the western devils the secrets of chinese combat,

no wait he died snorting coke right phlog ? :)


peace.

[temur]

Who is jun fan?

[phlogistician]

Who is jun fan?

Lee Jun Fan, one of Bruce Lee's names. He was also kown as Li Yuen Kam for a while, and also Sai Fung, a feminine name, which is a tradition to confuse evil spirits or something. The Nurse that delivered him gave him the name 'Bruce' but he didn't use it until he went to college.

His screen names are various translations of 'little dragon', as he was born in the year of the dragon.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Lee Jun Fan, one of Bruce Lee's names. He was also kown as Li Yuen Kam for a while, and also Sai Fung, a feminine name, which is a tradition to confuse evil spirits or something. The Nurse that delivered him gave him the name 'Bruce' but he didn't use it until he went to college.

His screen names are various translations of 'little dragon', as he was born in the year of the dragon.

no it was because he chased the brown dragon :)


yeah he was given a girls name because the evil spirits wanted to molest him when he was younger. they should have used a coin sword to whoop the evil spirits ass.

take that shar chi
http://www.fengshui-gift.com/prodimg/007191.JPG




peace,

[Yusukeshonen]

Why dwell on his death or all the bad things he might have done. Instead we should focus on his teachings and learn from him. Isn't that what he wanted us to do?

[madanthonywayne]

I'm watching The Bruce Lee story on AMC right now. By the end, I should have the answer!

[madanthonywayne]

OK. The movie just ended. Apparently, he fell into a mysterious coma and died. So there you go.

[Yusukeshonen]

lol

[lucca777]

How can you say Bruce Lee's movies sucked? you are the first person i see who says that,if you don't like his movies,that's ok but don't be saying they suck,that's your personal opinion,not from everyone.

[Yusukeshonen]

How can you say Bruce Lee's movies sucked? you are the first person i see who says that,if you don't like his movies,that's ok but don't be saying they suck,that's your personal opinion,not from everyone.

As part of Freedom of Speech, he can voice his opinion. I may not like what people say, but ill defend their right to say it.:m:

[draqon]

Because his body fat was lover than 3%...it caused something in the brain, well he died...

[mikenostic]

I read the first two pages and couldn't read anymore.
To the theorists that speculate that he used cocaine regularly...sorry, but he would not have gotten to where he was by being a heavy cocaine user. While coke makes you alert, Bruce's discipline and dedication could not have been achieve from heavy use of coke. Sorry. Try again.


Because his body fat was lover than 3%...it caused something in the brain, well he died...
That's entirely feasible, dragon. The brain does need a certain amount of fat to survive.

I've heard that he died of a brain annurism. Who knows.
Whatever the cause, both his and Brandon's deaths are complete tragedies.


Jim Morrison has said, 'it's better to burn out than fade away' and Bruce definitely fits into that category.

[the one and the way]

mikenostic
totally agree wth you..... That total madness to say the least that he took cocaine or OD of the substance there no evidence to say that and i really dont believe he did. Im a massive fan of his films especially Enter The Dragon great movie. Bruce had suffered a serious brain trauma only two months before he died, so a weakness was already present. One talented enemy with the knowledge and the will, or 'by ninja poisoners using cannabis, or by Shaolin monks who were 'upset' with bruce and used the delayed death touch known as dim mak. secret death touch by unknown assassins. Dim mak (death touch) is perhaps the ultimate expression of bil jee (stabbing fingers), whereby massive amounts of energy may be transferred to an opponent, sometimes with only minium of actual contact. The technique itself extends far beyond the physical realm. Dr Wu was of the opinion that the verdict should be that the cause of death was due to hypersensitivity to Equagesic or cannabis. As the cause of death was not clear and cannabis was present, realistically, this conclusion couldnt be denied. The official verdict, however, named only Equagesic as the presumed cause. Professor Teare was a forensic scientist recommended by scotland yard, he was brought in as the expert on cannabis and we contradict his testimony. The dosage of cannabis is neither precise nor predictable, but he said he never known anyone dying simply from taking it. Bruce explained: If you always put limits on yourself and what you can do, physical or anything, you might as well be dead. It will spread over into your work, your morality, your entire being. There are no limits, only plateaux. But you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you.

[IndianCurry2010]

Someone told me he became so strong and dangerous that the mafia decided to get rid of him.

[chaoha]

TC7 up is talking out of sense and knowledge people.. take heed of him(/her).. there aint any medicine in the first collapse Bruce suffered; although we couldnt know who's responsible, long term poisining is a better and more possible explanation than the official one (allergic R t equagesic or weed)..
cocaine using claim is absurd bcs of allready mentioned reasons..
and i agree we should talk about his philosophy, weltanschauung, theachings etc..
greetings

[2h1n0b1]

The ignorance which is held within this thread is disheartening, Bruce Lee or Lee Jun Fan openly degrades drugs because it keeps you from your potential. At the level he was functioning it is physically impossible to be in any drug and function to that capacity both functionally and mentally. To even ponder on the idea of such a thing tarnishes this great man's legacy. And all these left wing conspiracy theorists are absolutely ridiculous. Trying to turn his death into something that was as big as he was. Unfortunately it wasn't. He died from an acute cerebral edema due to an allergic reaction to Pennicilin.

[Rick667]

I have parts of the autopsy report and coroner's inquest and the original cause of death was cannabis intoxication that resulted in a hypersensitivity. No massive overdose. As for the Equagesic (the painkiller) he took, that was not the cause. Dr. R. R. Lycette was the pathologist who conducted the post-mortem at Queen Elizabeth's hospital morgue on July 23, 1973. No heavy metals (lead, mercury) and no organic drugs were found in his bloodsteam and body organs. I have the toxicology results. On one note, Lycette was in question about the post-mortem appearance and clinical findings; could there be another toxic substance in his bloodstream that he could have overlooked during post-mortem examaination? This is one question that will never be answered by anyone if it's even pertainent.

Bruce was taking a very exotic and potent strain of cannabis and hashish from Nepal. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu saved his life on May 10th and that's all that was present in his body, which caused the first edema. They pumped his stomach and a good amount of cannabis came out. The vomiting stopped after the stomach was free of it. The other symptoms they got control of, so Lee's life was saved with a Manitol drip and cortisone shot to counter glucose shock. Both doctors knew a great deal about it, where Western doctors were clueless.

Bruce had a low tolerance to drugs and he was a sensitive man. His body weight was 126 lbs. in May of 1973 and he was under a lot of stress. By late July, his weight was 122 lbs. and he literally had no body fat left. It helps buffer the reactions to drugs. Incidentally, the unrefined cannabis Bruce did was very expensive, too. The average person couldn't afford to buy it. Cannabis poisoning is rare, but it does happen. The strains grown in Southeast Asia are the strongest. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu had the medical evidence correctly established. Bruce thought he was an expert on everything. Unfortunately, he wasn't an expert on drugs. He would eat the cannabis and it's more dangerous when it's consumed that way. Lee would suck on the resin-coated leafs, so the chemicals would go into his brain full-strength. He'd then swallow the leafs into the stomach. Cannabis contains seven alkaloids and 400 chemicals that make it up. Lee was hypersensitive to one of more of the alkaloids in the cannabis.

Bruce had taken the anti-anxiety medication named Miltown in early 1973; in fact he was tested for any allergies and the results were negative to the main ingredient, which is found in Equagesic. This non-prescription painkiller was used at the coroner's inquest to go against Lee's doctors, so the Hong Kong government and Scotland Yard could cover up the real cause of death. And they did.

Some people may wonder why Lee's death is talked about so much many years later. Had they told the truth 38 years ago and that would not have occured. I'd like to discuss with TC7 in private when he comes back here someday.



Regards,

Rick

[SnowsportsSid]

I'm a big fan of Bruce Lee and I think your explanation makes a lot of sense, Rick. Tell me, are you able to post the reports you have, or would this be illegal and breach confidentiality?

I think it's quite well established that Bruce had been chewing cannabis to help relieve the high levels of stress that he was under. I'm not a medical man, but it certainly makes sense to me that cannabis was the cause of death if it was also detected in his body following his May 10th collapse. It also makes sense to me that his body's tolerance of drugs might be quite low, given his otherwise very clean and fitness oriented lifestyle.

With regard to your comment of "Bruce thought he was an expert on everything", this is certainly not the impression I have had from reading his books or listening to people speak who knew him well (people like Linda Lee and Dan Inosanto). Having said that, given who he had become, a certain level of arrogance could certainly have been a possibility I suppose. It strikes me that the reason why he would have chosen to chew cannabis as oppose to smoke it, would be that he would have considered smoking it to have been of too significant damage to his lungs / aerobic system.

Why would the HK government and Scotland Yard wish to cover this up? Besides the fact that the cause of death on the coroner's inquest report was at some point changed, is there any other evidence indicating HKG / Scotland Yard covered this up?

[drumbeat]

I'm surprised such a high percentage of this forum knew Bruce Lee, or knew someone who knew him.

Any other forum and they would be laughed at.

[Rick667]

In 1973, Hong Kong was under the ownership of the British Commonwealth. Lee's death from cannabis was a shock and the first time it happened to a star in the Asian film industry. The whole world was watching Hong Kong and waiting for the final verdict. Both HK and the Brits were afraid a cannabis and hashish epidemic would break out among the young fans who idolized Bruce. This was one reason why the verdict at the coroner's inquest was changed from "death by cannabis poisoning" to "death by misadventure." The inquest was public and 4 days long. Lee's doctors were furious at the change in verdict. By the way, the coroner, Ebert Tung, really wasn't a coroner. He was a lawyer who presided the inquest, who made the final verdict. They had it all staged to cover up. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu were ingored by the HK media, as all they wanted to do was exploit Bruce.

Ten years later, Albert Goldman contacted them and got the truth, but his 1983 article for Penthouse had some literary license that was less than truthful in some areas. Later, it was George Tan and Davis Miller who contacted Langford and Wu. You can get a good amount of correct information on George Tan's 1993 documentary "Death By Misadventure." He and Miller revised the film in 2003 for DVD release. It does contain one of the B&W morgue photos of Lee from 7/23, that was stolen by someone who worked in the coroner's office in Hong Kong. Two of them were lifted, so the public could see that Lee was no longer among the living, among rumors that he faked his death.

Of course, Linda, Chow, Dr. Chu and Betty lied under oath about what happened in her apartment on July 20th. I don't need any documents to figure that out. They fished out the official version that Bruce went to lay down and Betty was in the living room. They were together and Betty saw Bruce die on her bed. What a nightmare for a young lady who was only 25.

Bruce was backed by two life insurance companies and he was not to be taking any illegal drugs. Had they found out he was and insurance payouts to his family would have been affected. That was another reason for the change in verdict at the inquest. The third reason was his image to be kept clean. Bruce was a good person, but his family had made him so sanitized after his death. He had his dark side, just like anyone else and wasn't perfect.

Before Hong Kong was given back to China in 1997, Lee's records were public record. Anyone could fly there and obtain copies of them. What I have, others do, too. As far as making them public, I prefer not to. In my mind, I respect Bruce's privacy.



Regards,

Rick

[Rick667]

Cheers

[Stoniphi]

...the original cause of death was cannabis intoxication that resulted in a hypersensitivity..


Uh....hooey. If Bruce Lee died from cannabis he became the first death from that in the entirety of recorded human history - that's about 11,000 years of human experience with cannabis without a single death now.

The active ingredients in cannabis are extremely similar in both form and function to a class of naturally occurring chemicals normally produced in the human body called "endocannabanoids". Anandamide is one such. If you were to be somehow allergic to or harmed by cannabis than you will be killed off by your own body's naturally occurring endocannabanoids long before you were old enough to consume cannabis. You would have been pretty miserable until you died that way too, as your body is peppered with CB 1 and CB 2 receptors that govern everything from pain perception and balance to sexual ability.

The claim that Mr Lee died from 'cannabis poisoning' is extraordinary and thus requires extraordinary proof. Unless and until you post up that proof, I am calling "bullshit". This calls the accuracy of the balance of your statements into question as well.

Secondly (and peripherally I might add) there is indeed such a thing as the Dim Mak "death touch", also referred to as the "poison hand" or the "poison touch". It is a knife hand strike to the front of the throat at the carotid artery on an adjacent nerve trunk nexus. The strike has the immediate effect of 'resetting' your blood pressure, which makes you pass out. It also often loosens or dislodges a small bit of arterial plaque if there is any at all present in said artery, sending that into the brain causing a stroke. It is said that this strike can kill within 24 hours.

The death touch is part of the arsenal repertoire of many accomplished martial artists, though I have never seen anyone actually use it as it is meant to kill, not just to win a fight.

Mr Lee's distillation of classic Shaolin Gung Fu and his constant expression of Wing Chung's Buddhist principles make him a very important personage in the history of the martial arts. His development of Jeet Kun Do along those principles was a major contribution as well. He expressed this philosophy very well in Enter the Dragon and in some of his other works as well.

The martial arts community has accepted that he died from cerebral edema, an allergic reaction to the pain med. Black Belt magazine has run countless articles on Mr Lee and his passing, check their archives if you need more. The rest is the kind of rumor that accompanies fame and the sudden death of a famous person.

[Rick667]

That's all I have to say to you about it. As for the death strike, you should try it on someone and see if it works and end up serving time in prison. That's what I classify as "extraordinary bullshit."





Regards,

Rick

[phlogistician]

Uh....hooey. If Bruce Lee died from cannabis he became the first
Secondly (and peripherally I might add) there is indeed such a thing as the Dim Mak "death touch", also referred to as the "poison hand" or the "poison touch". It is a knife hand strike to the front of the throat at the carotid artery on an adjacent nerve trunk nexus.

There also the possibility of initiating 'commotio cordis' with a strike to the chest, coinciding with the ascension of the final 'bump' you see in a heartbeat diagram.

[Rick667]

If it wasn't the alkaloids, than it could have been herbal poisoning in the form of pesticides on the cannabis used at random. All plants are sprayed with them. Certainly a strong possibility and it wouldn't be detected in the body. The supplier is still alive and well. His name is known, but kept hushed as legal action could ensue if it was revealed.



Cheers

[Stoniphi]

I don't know that you notice it, but your hypothesis seems unfalsifiable. :shrug: Since this is a science site, I would normally assume that you understand what that means. Since you are obviously unfamiliar with Sagan's Rule ("Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.") than I cannot do that here. All I can tell you is that your hypothesis is false.

Unless you can come up with something to back up what appears very much to be unsupported idle speculation I urge you to reconsider insulting the deceased Mr Lee in this manner.


There also the possibility of initiating 'commotio cordis' with a strike to the chest, coinciding with the ascension of the final 'bump' you see in a heartbeat diagram.

Yes, a standard JKD vertical punch to the solar plexus would be equally effective, and likely much quicker as well.

[SnowsportsSid]

Hey Stoniphi,

I appreciate the comment re this being the "first death from that in the entirety of recorded human history - that's about 11,000 year". How do you explain Bruce's May 10th episode, given that the doctor involved on that occasion has openly remarked that cannabis was the likely cause (see Death by Misadventure documentary)? Also, how do you respond to the comment that Bruce was consuming particuarly potent strains of cannabis, unavailable to most average users. Do you consider this unfounded speculation?

[Rick667]

Cheers.

[Stoniphi]

Hey Stoniphi,

I appreciate the comment re this being the "first death from that in the entirety of recorded human history - that's about 11,000 year". How do you explain Bruce's May 10th episode, given that the doctor involved on that occasion has openly remarked that cannabis was the likely cause (see Death by Misadventure documentary)? Also, how do you respond to the comment that Bruce was consuming particuarly potent strains of cannabis, unavailable to most average users. Do you consider this unfounded speculation?

I was not the attending physician so I cannot give anything near a diagnosis of that event other than to remark that - if the comment attributed to the doctor is accurate - than he had no idea what he was talking about.

The news stories, seriously flawed studies and the like that have been surfacing loudly and with great media fanfare in recent years are obvious conservative political ploys with the stated goal of re - criminalizing cannabis in several countries.

Understand this: When a person ingests cannabis, cannabinoids the active ingredients, engage what we call CB 1 and CB 2 receptors in your central nervous system scattered throughout your entire body. Specifically, Delta - 9 tetrahydrocannabinol engages the CB 1 receptors and gets the user "stoned" and Cannabidiol (CBD) engages CB 2 receptors, some of which moderate pain perception and prevent 'pain resonance' in the paraquaductal gray area of your brain. If you are feeling nauseous, engaging the CB 2 receptors will stop that. (this is a simplified and abbreviated explanation of a very complex neurochemical interaction)

Once those receptors are all engaged with the cannabinoids, there is no further effect from ingesting more cannabis. 'Street cannabis' has indeed become more potent in the last 40 years, but one must bear in mind that the starting point was close to zero - some cannabis back then was male plants, leaf material ("schwag") and/or unripe cannabis that had very little active ingredient so merely getting smarter about what to market made for major improvement in quality.

The "skunk" strain (an Afghan kush bred by Sam the Skunkman in California about 20 years ago) that is touted as being so very strong isn't so much, it just smells like a skunk. In Canada, "Sativex" throat spray is sold by prescription for various ailments. It is almost 100% pure active ingredients. Hashish is typically 40% - 60% pure active ingredients (the strongest 'street pot' around today is about 24%) and has been available in the West since the early 1800's. Remember Coleridge (he wrote Xanadu) and "the Hashish Eaters" artists group? Further, those 'exceptionally potent strains' were readily available to a lot of folks, not just to Bruce Lee (if he had wanted them). "Honey Oil", about 80% pure active ingredients has been available since the late 1960's and is even more available now.

Again, Mr Lee's ethics and lifestyle choice revolved around the martial arts aspects of Shaolin Buddhism. He did not smoke anything because that would interfere with his training, as would eating or drinking large amounts of cannabis. The traditions of Wing Chung and the teachings of Yip Man ran contrary to that as well. His life philosophy is crystal clear, well published and verified by his many training associates and students.

Occam's Razor (parsimony) dictates that there is no need to make up fairy stories to explain a tragedy that already has a solid explanation. These days, it is easier to make a rapid diagnosis of a sudden, unexpected death - witness the passing of those 2 teen athletes in the last week from enlarged heart failure.

[SnowsportsSid]

OK, Stoniphi, thank you for your explanation.


Again, Mr Lee's ethics and lifestyle choice revolved around the martial arts aspects of Shaolin Buddhism. He did not smoke anything because that would interfere with his training, as would eating or drinking large amounts of cannabis. The traditions of Wing Chung and the teachings of Yip Man ran contrary to that as well. His life philosophy is crystal clear, well published and verified by his many training associates and students.

Are you implying that you think that Bruce Lee did not consume cannabis period, or just that he didn't smoke it? I was quite surprised when I first read that Bruce had used cannabis - for the reasons you've already mentioned - his well documented ethics and lifestyle choice. However, I was under the impression that the presence of cannabis was officially documented by the autopsy.

[Stoniphi]

I cannot say whether Mr Lee consumed cannabis or not. I can say that he most likely didn't smoke it if he did consume it due to the above, and that if he used it in tea or the like it would have been in moderation.

Advancement in martial arts revolves around control. Those who pursue extreme MA workouts, advanced techniques and extreme performance cannot allow anything to interfere with that training. Massive doses of cannabis would do that, minimal doses would not.

"Couchlock" does not work well with a 2 hour heavy bag workout or a 10 mile run.

There are many medicinal cannabis consumers who take dosage enough to deal with their issue (usually pain of some kind), but not enough to get "stoned". I am not familiar enough with his official autopsy to state anything about those findings, but would suggest that if cannabis was indeed present than it could well have been for therapeutic reason. The venerable herb has been used as such in Eastern medicine for at least 6,500 years. This was proven by a bowl of cannabis buds entombed with a mummified Chinese shaman along with his trepanning and bleeding tools.

[Rick667]

Professor Albert Goldman did a great job in getting the correct facts in his 1982 article, entitled "The Deadliest Man on the Planet" for Penthouse. Excerpts:

Lee whipped out a copy of the September 1972 edition of Playboy, which contained a clutch of articles entitled "The Drug Explosion." Actually, there was nothing in any of the pieces that would want to make a man turn on, but the chart prepared by the editorial staff characterized cannabis as providing "relaxation, breakdown of inhibitions ... euphoria, increased appetite" -- all things that were appealing to the anxious, irritable, and underweight Bruce Lee. Most important was the fact that no distinction was drawn between marijuana and hashish: both were lumped together indifferently beside the rubric "cannabis."

This was a serious omission. Although grass and hashish are prepared from the hemp plant, they are for all practical purposes no more the same than are wine and whiskey. Especially, when eaten by high-strung types like Bruce Lee, hashish is apt to prove a nightmare drug. If it doesn't drive you crazy, it may poison you. Those little "temple balls," "fingers," and other little goodies from Nepal may be contaminated by having been manufactured in one of the most primitive and unhygienic environments on earth. If you don't burn the stuff, you're asking for trouble. Naturally, Bruce Lee, who was not basically a drug addict, knew nothing of these dangers. Yet, being a classic know-it-all, he claimed to be an expert on the drug.

In 1970, for example, a young athlete died at Antwerp in a room where he has been smoking hashish. The highly respected pathologist, Dr. Aubin Heyndrickx, who conducted the autopsy, made an exhaustive effort to determine or not hashish had been the cause of death. Eventually, through a great number of multiplication of the usual number of tests, he was able to rule out every other imaginable cause, leaving hashish as the presumptive cause. A year later, a French soldier tried to commit suicide by smoking a large quantity of hashish mixed with tobacco. He went into a coma for four days, but his life was saved. When he recovered, he claimed that other people had killed themselves in the same manner. Chances are that he would have died as well if there had been no medical intervention.

The strongest evidence I collected for death by hashish poisoning was provided by Dr. Francis Mas, a psycho-pharmacologist on the faculty of the Albert Einstein Medical College in New York. Dr. Mas served his internship at Casablanca in 1966. He was attached to the emergency room and intensive-care unit of Averroes Hospital. It was not uncommon on a Saturday night for a patient to be brought in suffering from overindulgence in hashish. Generally, these people recovered after a night's sleep.

Once in awhile, such a case would exhibit precisely the symptoms observed in Bruce Lee, including coma, brain edema and respiratory collapse. Before the doctors could reverse the process, the patient would die. Dr. Mas observed one such case personally and was told about another. The only cause for these fatal seizures that the medical staff could discover was that the victims had consumed hashish that was either very fresh or had been prepared in a manner that increased its potency.

That Bruce Lee was consuming hashish of exceptionally high potency is quite probable in view of the drug's provenance. Nepalese hash is the most powerful in the world because it is produced by a unique process. Instead of sieving out the tops of the plants, as is done in Morocco, Lebanon, and Afghanistan -- a technique that allows the product to become adulterated with inactive vegetable matter -- the Nepalese will till the sun makes the leaves of their towering plants sweat pure resin. Then they rub off this resin with their bare hands and compress it in screw presses. The resulting product is a pure concentrate of the 400 ingredients that comprise hashish. If the customer can command the best, the so-called Royal Hashish, he will obtain a drug that is often productive of violent effects, including numerous neurological symptoms. Laurence Cherniak, the only foreigner ever to study and photograph the production of Royal Hashish at close-hand, describes the effects of this preparation in 'The Great Book of Hashish, Volume I,' as "so potent it was almost lethal."



Cheers

[Stoniphi]

What you have posted here would put me in stitches if this wasn't a science site. It is, however, and I must once again call "bullshit" on you for continuing this tirade of insult and pseudo-science.

If you have any real, solid, verifiable proof at all that cannabis has killed even 1 single person ever in the entirety of recorded human history, post it up here now. If you do not, than you should quit making that false claim.


...The resulting product is a pure concentrate of the 400 ingredients that comprise hashish.

Wrong.

"The constituents of marijuana lists 66 cannabinoids" in cannabis, so that is as many as will be in hashish. "except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications" This from The National Academy of Science School of Medicine report to the US Federal Government on Marijuana and Medicine, Assessing the Science Base, National Academy Press, Washington DC, 2001. I have some other serious sources as well, if you wish to put up some more comic book trash 'factoids' for rebuttal.

What you are posting up here reads much like 1930's Anslinger propaganda and is so far off base as to be tragic in its error. Again I have to ask you what your' motivation is here. Is it your desire to make yourself feel better by besmirching the name of a fallen hero? Do you have some kind of anti - cannabis agenda to push? Are you a child and a bit lacking in education yet?

Or are you just trolling the thread hoping to hook a live one? :shrug:

[Rick667]

I don't know who you are, but you sound like an arrogant narrow-minded American pompus ass. Probably a drug user, since you defend it so passionately. Or a staunch Democrat. I have nothing against cannabis. I used it myself, along with hashish in my teens. Yeah, for a young martial artist and street fighter, I did my share of partying until I quit.

Those Washington studies are full of crap because they're all based on the initial ones they did back in the 60's. Look, Mister, this is not Africa or Asia. It's the USA, which is so isolated from the rest of the world. You are no judge and jury, just some fanatic, so don't get too much of an inflated head. As for Lee, he got his karma in the end. Had he been wise, he would have listened to his doctors. That's what happens when you think you are invincible. By the way, Albert Goldman spoke to both Langford and Wu and knew a good amount of doctors. His work was credible. Yours isn't.




Cheers

[desi]

Bruce Lee is not dead. He became like water and took a trip down the canal to see the submarine races.

[Stoniphi]

Again, if you cannot back up your false statements and slander you lack any credibility at all on this or any other topic of worth.

You figure some silly 1985 magazine article is more credible than the National Academy of Science?

You appear to know very little about cannabis, much less about Bruce Lee and the martial arts and nothing at all about how to participate in a civil adult conversation.

My guess is that you are one of the children who like to pop in and strut their stuff here to try and impress the grown - ups.

[zentech]

I seen a made for tv movie once, long ago, about a college athlete. He was a runner. He would go on these high protein, zero carb. diets to shed his body fat. Do to the fatigue factor that sets in, he was also taking upper's, diet pills to boost his energy. He later died from cerebral edema, swelling of the brain, from the combination of the diet and pills.
It made me think of Bruce. No human being under normal circumstances can reach the level of fitness and endure the stress of long hours of training, choreographing fight scenes and all the things Bruce did with out a little boost from something. As much as I admire and respect Bruce Lee and appreciate his talent, I can't help but wonder.
Keep in mind he was good friends with James Coburn the actor, who was a heavy cocain user. Guilt by association? Maybe!
I prefer to think Bruce would never use drugs. But I can't help but wonder.
RIP Bruce! Miss you!

[nitram22]

He better be. Bruce owes me $50 bucks. and if I see his geriatric ass, I'm kicking it!

[CptBork]

It made me think of Bruce. No human being under normal circumstances can reach the level of fitness and endure the stress of long hours of training, choreographing fight scenes and all the things Bruce did with out a little boost from something. As much as I admire and respect Bruce Lee and appreciate his talent, I can't help but wonder.

Well there's the essence of it in your own words- the guy was a human being. A very fine physical and philosophical specimen at that, IMO, but human all the same. Nobody's perfect, but I guess cultural mystique surrounds folks like Bruce Lee and leads others to place them on imaginary pedestals.

I've heard stories about him before and checked on Wikipedia just now- apparently, the doctors determined that he died from an overdose of painkillers. The OP says he/she finds this suggestion offensive, but I don't see why it should be so. To me it would just show I have that much more in common with Bruce Lee (i.e. I have flaws), thus I could better relate to and draw inspiration from his struggles and accomplishments.

[420Joey]

Ingesting Marijuana and Resin is much safer than smoking it. Not one person has ever died from a Marijuana over dose. If so I would like for you guys to cite some statistics if not than I ask you to stop perpetuating psuedo-science. It's allready an established fact that Bruce Lee did not die off Marijuana, it's just as credible as the conspiracy theory stating the goverment killed Bruce Lee for there own reasons.

I eat marijuana and resin all the time, when I can't smoke, it sucks, it doesent even get you as high, eating weed and resin you have to eat alot, even than it wouldent "Kill you". infact I read a study not too long ago illustrating statistics that show that more people have died eating bad meat than medical cases relating to Marijuana. So the average person wouldent have died but Brucee Lee the epitomee of health basically would??

I call bullshit on that!

[YankeeSteelerBabe]

Wow, I am impressed at the passion concerning Mr Bruce Lee, Lee Jun Fan, Lee Siu Long, very intense! Allow me to nit pick one thing, mikenostic I don't know you at all, what I do know is that you don't know anything about THE DOORS, or Jim Morrison!!! Check yourself before you quote someone, BECAUSE rock and roll will never die, was in fact Neil Young!!! So now I really wonder what you really know or don't know about Bruce Lee!! Sorry I'm just a stickler about the TRUTH! Bruce Lee had severely damaged the 4th Sacral nerve, which meant he was in constant pain! According to the Orthapedic Surgeon for the NY YANKEES AND THE NY KNICKS, COCAINE USE WOULD HAVE MADE HIM HURT WORSE!! And yes he did use cannibis! Along with a Steroid!! He was amazingly charismatic, and yes he was an incredible martial artist!! But he was also HUMAN, there really wasn't much that could be done back then, it was a combination that just enraged him the more it didn't help him!! It wasn't Coke, it was steroids, and pain killers!!! Now I know everyone thinks they "know" what it was but you were only half right!!!

[niko]

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Has anyone suggested he was perhaps murdered by enemies in the martial arts world? I know a lot of Chinese martial arts experts disliked his "abandonment of the rules", shall we say, in that he formed his own martial arts style based on multiple other styles.

Got no evidence for this, just thought I'd throw it out there.

[RedEyes]

Just wanted to add my 2cents toward the Nepalese temple ball theory, as most forms of hash are used by natives for varied uses, but mainly therapeutically and given the multiple severe injuries it would be obvious that he chose "the natural" pain relief medicine rather than a man made chemical and given his beliefs smoking was a no no but oral consumption would have been OK, as since 2727 b.c. it is noted, the Chinese have been using Marijuana and its by products, one of the by products being medicine. I was thinking,if there is any truth behind the theory, maybe as he was using resin that was not available to others would there have been opium in the temple ball, not enough to be noticed by the coroner? As all old school Afghan hash contained it, as did original Thai stick.
I know that proper temple balls are made by only hand rolling the buds in the afternoon, so that the morning dew had vaporized, making it a purer resin that contains no moisture, but maybe he was given something special with opium being used as a binder, but only a small amount, but this is only based on the the information, being that the hash had something to do with his death, Which in my opinion is utter donkey nuts
I do personally believe it was sudden death syndrome, which the older Chinese would have called "a curse" having said that it wouldn't explain of Brandon getting killed by a blank.
The Hmong people from Laos believe sudden death syndrome is a jealous witch who sits on your face causing suffocation?
Whatever happened the legend lives on!!!