oh Tom DeLay!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by charles cure, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. he is screeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwweeeeddd once Jack Abramoff starts singing his song.
    along with like 1/5 of congress.

    I personally think its high time that we got shocked out of the illusion that any of our politicians are genuine.

    this is going to be interesting once events start to unfold.

    who thinks the republicans will lose control of congress because of this?
     
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  3. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, I know, this bribery scandal between numerous politicians, BOTH republican and democrat is going to be interesting. I can't wait till we clean house of these corrupt bastards. I only wish they could be replaced by some independents or libertarians.

    God I hate politicians. Worse than lawyers!

    - N
     
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  5. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    "BOTH"

    the number and degree of republicans involved with this is no close to that of Democrats. the democrats are only in danger of being used to make the shit look less like a republican witch trial. I am sure they are working double-time to find a democrat to take down.
     
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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    I could care less which side has the most corrupt people. What I care about is that those people are corrupt in the first place. I don't care if you're democrat, republican, christian, jew, or even the president himself. If you're corrupt, I want your ass outta power!

    And while I do believe they wanna bring down democrats to make it look less like a republican-only thing, I doubt there are no democrats that aren't corrupt so I could care less if they're trying to make it look like an across the board problem. The more democrats they expose, regardless of their reasons, the better in my book. I don't want either republican or democrat to be the majority. Heck, I wish there were less of both parties so that some independents could come in. They're the only clear-headed ones as they have no bias.

    - N
     
  8. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    I agree that there are surly corrupt democrats, but independent parties are not the answer. they are simply part of the political strategy of each party. i.e. Nader steals democrat votes, so known republicans donate to his "party". the more parties there are, the easier it is for radical groups (who wont be splintered into two smaller groups), like neo-cons, to gain power, which would probably result in certain religious groups gaining more power. yay, now we have a true theocracy! that will help everyone!

    sorry for the sarcasm there, I just get sick of people eating up the mud slinging propaganda of both sides and then deciding they hate both.

    here is the solution to the problem--> smart voters.

    easier said than done, but it is the solution.
     
  9. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I agree ....and I also agree that it's easier said than done.

    An easier solution is to limit the terms of any and all elected government officials. That way they wouldn't have time to become powerful enough to even warrant such lobbying tactics as Abramoff was able to do. That's also why people like Abramoff don't "buy" the favors of junior congressmen ...they go for the power ...and that power is via the length of service.

    Term limits on congressmen is a solution ...and a workable solution.

    Baron Max
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I like the idea of term limits, as well as real compaign finance reform. What about publicly funded campaigns?
     
  11. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    How about the definate term limits. You can serve 12 years but if you serve 13+ you die the moment you are out of office.
     
  12. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    I have to disagree on term limits. I think we need, first, tax reform so that rich people/companies can't dodge their tax duties (whether or not progressive taxes are fair is another issue, for another thread). then second, have publicly funded elections. thirdly, lengthen term limits (you heard me).

    Representatives serve only two year terms, which means they have to spend most of their time raising money and posturing for upcoming elections rather than doing their jobs. granted, publicly funded elections would solve a good chunk of that problem. however, we need people doing what is right for our country, not trying to look good for the election that is just around the bend. so maybe 4 year limits for the house and the president, and 6 or 8 for senators. and if you think the person is doing a horrible job, the people should be able to hold a special election to get someone knew. however, it would have to be limited so that people didn't have special elections every year. it could be limited in many ways. but one could simply be petition. if you get over x many signatures there will be an election, where people would have a ballot question asked if they want a new senator, to see if there should be a special election.

    just an idea, but I think it would help.
     
  13. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    the key to creating smart voters is media reform.
    the congress is currently in the front pocket of the media industry, and consequently we hear almost nothing of independant parties' platforms.
    for real political change to happen in america, there has to be extensive media reform. along with this, there has to be a public funding for public media, instead of pbs having to ask for donations.
     
  14. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    as a side-note:
    HURRAY for libertarians. i want to see THEM in control of congress. they would really clean house on corruption.
    wishful thinking, probably.

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  15. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    The very reason we've never had any real tax reform is because of the old, long-term congressmen are so powerful, ....AND they are so "connected" to the rich, powerful lobbyists and corporate concerns. And the very reason that they're thus connected is they've been in office long enough to be of use to those lobbyists and corporate concerns!

    If congressmen were only in office for, say, two terms, none of them would have such power individually. Thus none could be so entrenched, so connected, to the rich, powerful lobbyists and corporate concerns.

    Almost everyone here wants or hopes for a new, progressive government, yet we continue to keep the old, old, conservative congressmen. Can't you see the contradiction in that approach?

    I agree with your idea/thoughts about the issue of "getting re-elected" versus doing a good job as a congressman. But, see, that would all go away if they knew they'd only be in office, say, two terms! And as to spending huge sums of money to get elected ...who'd do that if they were only going to be in office for two terms? More people with a true interest in service to the nation would run for office, instead of greedy bastards who see the road paved in gold and diamonds!

    As for kicking people out of office if they're doing a bad job ...we have that now! The people can recall any representative or senator with the filing of petitions for a special election. It's simple, it's just not used because people basically don't know what the hell their congressmen are even doing!!

    Baron Max
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    It is amazing how power corrupts. - The current president of Brazil, Lula, had been the unsuccessful candidate 4 times before. He founded the workers party, PT, and consistently called for congressional investigations of corruption, for the slightest hint of any wrong doing by the party in power, prior to taking office himself. Supported reputation of Brazil's debts or at least ceasing to pay the interest on them, etc.

    When it began to look like Lula might actually win on his fifth try, investors rushed to get their money out of Brazil, driving the price of the dollars in local currency very high (almost 4 Real required to buy a dollar. - It is currently 2.3 R$/$)*.

    Once in office, Lula forgot all the promises made to the poor, decided not to throw the IMF and World Bank out of Brazil as promised in the campaign. (In fact, rather than repudiate the big Brazilian debt, he is paying it off and Brazil is now, or very soon will be, with zero balance to these organizations.) Lula suprized all with a very tight money policy - that has produced in 2005 an inflation of only 1.22% (Less than ten years ago, that annual rate was often exceeded each day!) He has become more like his conservative predecessors, in every way, only more so. - The corruption field is no exception.

    For many years the practice of releasing budget funds to particular congressional men to spend in their districts (pocketing part by Kick Backs from the contractors, of course) in exchange for voting as the administration wishes, has been SOP in Brazil, but this was the inefficient, pre Lula, "old way." (Now they are paid large sums, directly by PT, every month, to vote the correct way.) 18 Congressing men have been indicted, and are being tried by their colleagues in Congress, but the first to complete the trial has been found "not guilt" of taking bribes, despite videos of him doing so, and one cancelled check for the standard monthly amount. (Someone in PT really screwed up - all payments were to be in cash.)

    We have a wonderful expression to describe the trial process of important persons who, even if very obviously guilty, never go to jail or are fined, etc. (There is one recent exception, but he was not loyal.) It is:

    "Everything ends in Pizza."

    (Usually when the trial is over, the crooks and the judges all go out for beer and pizza together.)
    _______________________________________________
    *The delicious irony in all this is that the very same investors who feared Lula might be elected are now afraid that current scandals of his party, PT, may keep him from being re-elected this October! - It is not only politicians who know about bribes, how to make money out of governmental power, etc. Investors know good connections sure help profits; that is why they pay US lobbists like Abramoff to hand out the billions, as he confessed to doing a few days ago.

    In closing, The CNN report about the Sago mine disaster, noted that under the administration of GWB, most of the safety violations of US mines carry fines of less than a speeding ticket and that the coal industry has provided 13 billion dollars to Republican campaigns in last four years, second only to the oil industry. (They also gave 3 Billion to Democrats in this same period. - It is not that Democrats are less corruptible, it is only that they currently have less control of safety and environment inspection law enforcement agencies.)

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2006
  17. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    And who's fault is it that democrats lose votes to independents? Get a better candidate and stand for better issues and you won't lose those votes. You know, like the ideas that independent is bringing up to "steal" those votes? The only reason why democrats get the majority of their votes isn't for their issues, it's all because you're a democrat. Heck, a democrat could say he's gonna nuke all the major cities in his country and he'd still get votes by democrats just cause you're a democrat, heh. Same for republicans. Stupid party whores.

    Why do you get sick of people that hate both sides due to their mud-slinging propoganda? It's simple, don't use mud-slinging propoganda and others won't hate em! Both sides are dirty. Actions speak louder than words and those people are making asses out of themselves. Is it my fault that I don't like idiotic asses?

    - N
     

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