If the war is over this is an occupation in Iraq. The same people that the repug crew are talking about killing are the same people they were talking about saving when they went into Iraq. Bush and his crew are all over the tv telling people who oppose him are unpatriotic; because they are talking common sense.They say the job will be done when they kill all the insurgents, BUT, they can't tell us who are the insurgents.
Answer: Kill thousands of resistance fighters and their families. Translation: Only a tyrant like Saddam could have kept Iraq unified once Kurdistan seceded. It's all over but the crying. Or answer to original question of this thread: Successful occupations impossible for nice guys, or for a superpower relying on a reputation for goodness. Living in a fantasy neo-imperialist dreamworld, there be dragons haunting present present and future. No respect= No Gas for you, Yanqui- Now go home.
Silly me. We should invite a few hundred thousand armed, nervous monolingual Chinese troops into our American streets for a similar non-occupation. With a few cluster-bombs and special renditions in Mayberry, we could all join the fun.
So ....what do you call the Iraqis who are voting in the elections?? Loyalists? Loyal to whom or to what? And ya' know, I keep wondering how we can keep calling those guys "insurgents" when they're killing their own people, killing Iraqis? There's about 2,500 or so terrorists, but one helluva lot more plain, hardworking Iraqis. How can we/you say that those few terrorists are actually fighting for Iraq? Are we/you saying that "Iraq" is only those 2,500 people?? Baron Max
The insurgents are Sunnis who cannot do anything else but insurge because the US sponsored Shiite police force tortures and murders them for fun. Saddam had a bad government but it was a lot safer for Sunnis. Personally, I think if Saddam was killing off Shiites he was doing the world a service. The US even hired him to do it. Now the US uses Shiites to do its dirty work. Amazing what a regime change can do. If we are to win the occupation we will be there forever. It's the only way that we have a chance.
Huh? So ya' mean there's only about 2,500 Sunnis in Iraq? And all of them are "insurgiing"? And all of the rest of the Iraqis are Shiites? I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Baron Max
Yep, this is why I said Iraq isn't ready for a democracy. They're so far off it's not funny. They don't all get along and it won't come peacefully. They need a tyrant first just like most countries had when first building themselves up. You need to slaughter all opposition until everyone pretty much agrees. Heck, that's what we did with America. Slaughtered all the injins and Mexicans in sight until it was only us Americans left. So once one ethnic group of people in Iraq kills the rest and becomes the majority, then they can start to become a democracy. A democracy is worthless when the majority doesn't agree. Look at them now and heck, look at *us* now. Democracy is a mess when large groups are fighting for power. They need a different style of rule and do all the neccessary dirty deeds that need to first be done. Saddam was perfect for that and GWB 'n Co is perfect for us. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! This is why Iraq became as powerful of a country as it was when he ruled. Oh, but he's "evil".. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! - N
I think you are thoroughly confused again. When an american calls himself a patriot he doesn't necessarily do the country any good. He might blow up a federal building out of patriotism. Now tell this couldn't happen in the US?
A patriot is NOT an individual who CALLS HIMSELF a "patriot", a patriot is someone that other citizens call a patriot! I.e., a patriot IS someone who does good things for his nation ....and Tim McVeigh was NOT a patriot (even if he thought he was!). Big difference, Spurious. Baron Max
Most residents of the British American colonies did not give a whig nor a tory what Washington and his cronies were up to. There were thousands of every-day mind-yer-own-business Americans (we might pigeonhole them as Libertarians today) caught on the wrong side of things, and had their lives and fortunes destroyed. The American Revolution was not all pretty. And as others have pointed out, there were many losers not of proper European genetic stock. I am in favor of a new American political party embracing the thinking of Thomas Paine. I am in favor of the American People informing their government at this historic juncture that they will be held accountable to We. Not the Royal; We, and not the Corporations. The Times, they really are a-changin. Watch and see: US politics is about to experience a tsunami.
Our dear Tim thought he was doing a patriotic thing by blowing up the building. He thought he was helping the country. Is it really up to you to decide who is the true patriot? Obviously many of your viewpoints aren't really beneficial for your country, but you probably still call yourself a patriot. Baron Max and Tim just have different ideas on what is good for the country. I personally have other ideas what is good for the country, but I am not a patriot anyhow because I think patriotism is a recipe for fascism. A country should never be idolized. It's just a country. But our dear iraqi insurgents see foreign troups occupying their country. People who killed their friends and family members. People who have no claim to be in Iraq in the first place. If somehting similar would happen to the US, let's say the US got invaded and occupied by North Korea. Would you say: oh, they are just thinking about the good of the country. Let's just sit tight. Or do you step into your pickup truck, get a gun from your rifle rack, start the engine, drive to the nearest korean, and blow his brains out? A patriot is never good for a country. A patriot is a zealot. A braindead machine.
How do you win an occupation? Collect the special tokens on the back of the Cornflakes box and become president?
So what about the other gazillion Iraqis who are NOT insurgents, and seem to understand that the US coalition is NOT occupying, but helping them? To take the "side" of the very, very few insurgents is to also denounce all of the rest of the gazillion Iraqis, ain't it? So which group is the "patriots"? And why? Well, here again, ....I might fight and call myself a patriot. But if the overwhelming majority of US citizens were friendly and helpful to the North Koreans, then should I expect Spurious to call me a patriot, too? ...without regard for the gazillion other citizens who accept the "helpful" North Koreans? See what I mean? If we just decide to call someone a patriot because he shoots someone or blows up something, then does that mean that all murderers in the nation should be called patriots???? ...and denounce all of the other citizens?? Baron Max
And don't we do that each and every time we vote? If not, what do you call the process of voting for government officials?? Baron Max
Being that the US is rebuilding Iraq and restoring the rights to the people who were repressed for DECADES- it is easy to see that the US is HELPING Iraq. Plus we are leaving. Its not like we are making it the 51st state. So people who are destroying their country, killing their fellow citizens, and trying to reinstate the minority power are NOT PATRIOTS. They are power hungry people who want to have their lost power back. They will do anything to terrorize the majority of the population to achive this. A Patriot is considered to be someone who makes sacrafices for thier country. These insurgents are RUINING Iraq, not making it a better place. WAKE UP IRAQIS. If there was no insurgency we would have already left!!
Yeah, but that's just the 151 talking. Bush wants to stay the course (not leave), they are building large bases in Iraq, and an embassy with a greater budget than that of the tallest buildings in the world. The power and water have not been restored to pre-war levels, and the rights of the Iraqis are being trampled on. They are not allowed to form labor unions, they are not allowed to bid for reconstruction projects, they are not allowed a free press. A civil war is already in progress. Face it, Bush destroyed Iraq.
