View Full Version : Horus--Jesus--Buddha, same origin??
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
Or is Trilairian lost in vain associations? Let the poll decide.
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
Or is Trilairian lost in vain associations? Let the poll decide.
A poll is to decide what is to be a fact?
Eh?
Well we can't go back into time and witness it for ourselves, we just consider the documents that have been recorded about the individuals.
Jesus's Testaments come from 1900 ish years ago
Budda's come from 2500 ish years ago.
The historical evidence alone is good enough for most of the known world that they both existed. Tril is wrong, I know it, any good historian knows that Jesus and Buddha both existed. It's their divinity that is debated among intelligent people.
Based on evidence that you see in front of you, what do you think water? Answer accordingly.
philosopher´s stone
11-11-05, 04:42 PM
I am a bit puzzled here !!
Jesus was a jew and his teaching was more or less according to the jewish believes - I do not know if jewish religion has any links to old Egyptian mythology or not ...... I would probably have to study it further before I say yes or no......
Jesus did live in Egypt for some years , after his family fled there ...
About Buddha the question is easy - Buddha was a prince totally isolated in the castle living the good life without any religious teaching - untill he witnessed suffering - he did not even know that suffering existed before that - he went away from the castle meditated by himself and found his answer by meditating under some big tree ....
He did not even consider himself holy or a God ... just as a man, he gave people a way of living ..... only people later thought of him as divine ...
No Buddha is NOT influenced by Egyptian Mythology .....
No Buddha is NOT influenced by Egyptian Mythology .....
No he wasn't...thanks for commenting.
Trilairian
11-11-05, 04:50 PM
I am a bit puzzled here !!
Jesus was a jew and his teaching was more or less according to the jewish believes - I do not know if jewish religion has any links to old Egyptian mythology or not ...... I would probably have to study it further before I say yes or no......
Jesus did live in Egypt for some years , after his family fled there ...
About Buddha the question is easy - Buddha was a prince totally isolated in the castle living the good life without any religious teaching - untill he witnessed suffering - he did not even know that suffering existed before that - he went away from the castle meditated by himself and found his answer by meditating under some big tree ....
He did not even consider himself holy or a God ... just as a man, he gave people a way of living ..... only people later thought of him as divine ...
No Buddha is NOT influenced by Egyptian Mythology .....
Yes his story IS influenced by Egyptian mythology. It draws in various elements of the god Horus. Those are the parallels he shares with Jesus.
"Gautama Buddha was a spiritual teacher believed to have lived between approximately 563 BCE and 483 BCE on the Indian subcontinent, in the Gangetic Plains area of modern Nepal and northern India."
Buddha = Real person
Horus = Myth
Yes his story IS influenced by Egyptian mythology.
No it isn't.
Trilairian
11-11-05, 05:08 PM
I've already proven the both of you wrong.
I've already proven the both of you wrong.
No you haven't.
philosopher´s stone
11-11-05, 05:12 PM
Nisus - I actually think that your poll is a bit confusing , do you mean :
"No ,there is not enough evidence, AND I THINK that these figures existed independantly ".....
Trilairian
11-11-05, 05:17 PM
Nisus - I actually think that your poll is a bit confusing , do you mean :
"No ,there is not enough evidence, AND I THINK that these figures existed independantly ".....
I take it to mean what it said that the no vote is a vote that there is sufficient evidence that they are seperate characters.
The yes vote then is a vote of belief that there isn't sufficient evidence to prove that they aren't inspired by a common source character.
Medicine*Woman
11-11-05, 07:57 PM
I am a bit puzzled here !!
Jesus was a jew and his teaching was more or less according to the jewish believes - I do not know if jewish religion has any links to old Egyptian mythology or not ...... I would probably have to study it further before I say yes or no......
Jesus did live in Egypt for some years , after his family fled there ...
About Buddha the question is easy - Buddha was a prince totally isolated in the castle living the good life without any religious teaching - untill he witnessed suffering - he did not even know that suffering existed before that - he went away from the castle meditated by himself and found his answer by meditating under some big tree .... He did not even consider himself holy or a God ... just as a man, he gave people a way of living ..... only people later thought of him as divine ...
No Buddha is NOT influenced by Egyptian Mythology .....
*************
M*W: Jesus followed the Egyptian ritual. He may have been claimed to be a "Jew," but his philosophy was Egyptian. In essence, if you study it, there is no such thing as Jews.
Please understand here that I am not antisemitic. Not at all. I am just rendering my belief.
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
Or is Trilairian lost in vain associations? Let the poll decide.
Your joking right? A poll is going to decide what the actual situation is?
People like trilairian and MW are free to spread their lying illusions as long as God allows them to live. Then they will discover the truth.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Medicine*Woman
11-14-05, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=Adstar]Your joking right? A poll is going to decide what the actual situation is?
People like trilairian and MW are free to spread their lying illusions as long as God allows them to live. Then they will discover the truth.
*************
M*W: Since there is no god, a non-entity, something that doesn't exist, has absolutely no control over how long we might live. The truth has already been discovered. It is you who are delusional believing in fantastical lies!
Your joking right? A poll is going to decide what the actual situation is?
People like trilairian and MW are free to spread their lying illusions as long as God allows them to live. Then they will discover the truth.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Honestly my freind, I wanted to see how many people sincerely care/believe. And what side they affirm.
If they don't care they don't vote. If they vote they care.
Honestly my freind, I wanted to see how many people sincerely care/believe. And what side they affirm.
If they don't care they don't vote. If they vote they care.
That is true.
Honestly my freind, I wanted to see how many people sincerely care/believe. And what side they affirm.
If they don't care they don't vote. If they vote they care.
Thats cool, then the following was not needed in the original question;
"Let the poll decide."
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
c7ityi_
11-15-05, 11:55 AM
No it isn't.
But what about the countless similarities between them (Horus, Jesus, Quetzacoatl etc)? Do you think it's all a coincidence or something?
VitalOne
11-15-05, 09:34 PM
Obviously any historian will tell you that they existed independantly, and actually existed.
About the similarities, there are similarities between many historical figures...does that mean they did not exist independantly?
Trilairian
11-16-05, 10:50 AM
Obviously any historian will tell you that they existed independantly, and actually existed.
You wish.
About the similarities, there are similarities between many historical figures...does that mean they did not exist independantly?
To this level of correspondence. Yes.
Here is a list of things stolen by Jesus writers from Egyptian leagend:
http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm
The Mysteries
The miracles
The Sem, or mythical representations
The parables
The Ritual as the book of resurrection
The Book of Revelation
The sayings of Iu or Iu-em-hetep
The Sayings of Jesus
Huhi the father in heaven as the eternal, a title of Atum-Ra Ihuh,
the father in heaven as the eternal.
Ra, the holy spirit God
the Holy Ghost.
Ra the father of Iu the Su, or son of God, with the hawk or dove as the bird of the holy spirit
God, the Father of Jesus, with the dove as the bird of the Holy Spirit.
Iu or Horus, the manifesting son of God
Jesus the manifesting Son of God.
The trinity of Osiris the father, Horus (or Iu) the son, and Isis
The Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Iu-Su or Iusa, the coming son of Iusāas, who was great with Iusa or Iusu
Jesus.
The ever-coming Messu or Child as Egyptian
The Hebrew Messianic Child.
Horus (or Heru), the Lord by name,
as a child Child-Jesus as the Lord by name (Gospels of the Infancy).
Meh-Isis, the virgin mother of Iu, her Su or son
Mary the virgin mother of Jesus.
The first Horus as Child of the Virgin, the second as son of Ra, the father
Jesus the Virgin’s child, the Christ as son of the father
The first Horus as the founder, the second as fulfiller for the father
Jesus as the founder, and the Christ as fulfiller for the father.
The two mothers of Child-Horus, Isis and Nephthys, who were two sisters
The two mothers of Child-Jesus, who were sisters.
Meri or Nut, the mother-heaven
Mary as Regina Coeli.
The outcast great mother with her seven sons
Mary Magdalene, with her seven devils.
Isis taken by Horus in adultery with Sut
The woman taken in adultery.
Apt, the crib or manger, by name as the birthplace and mother in one
The manger as cradle of the Child-Christ.
Seb, the earth-father, as consort to the virgin Meh
Joseph, the father on earth, as putative husband to the Virgin Mary.
Seb, the foster-father to Child-Horus
Joseph, as foster-father to the Child-Jesus.
Seb, Isis and Horus, the Kamite holy trinity
Joseph, Mary and Jesus, a Christian holy trinity.
Seb, the builder of the house, the carpenter
Joseph, the carpenter.
Seb, the custodian of the mummied dead
Joseph of Arimathea, the keeper of the Corpus Christi.
Sut and Horus, the twin opponents
Satan and Jesus, the twin opponents.
Horus, the sower, and Sut, the destroyer, in the harvest-field J
esus, the sower of the good seed, and Satan, the sower of tares.
Sut and Horus contending in the desert
Satan and Jesus contending in the wilderness.
Sut and Horus contending on the Ben-Ben or Pyramidion
Satan and Jesus contending on the pinnacle.
Horus carried off by Sut to the summit of Mount Hetep
Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceeding high mountain.
Sut and Horus contending on the mount
Satan and Jesus contending on the mount.
Sut undoing the good that Horus does
Satan sowing tares by night.
S’men, for Khemen, a title of Taht Simeon.
S’men, who held Child-Horus in his arms as the young solar god
Simeon, who took the Child-Jesus in his arms.
Anna or Annit (a title of Hathor), with Taht-S’men
Anna, the prophetess, with Simeon.
The Petar or Petra by name in Egyptian as Revealer to Horus
Peter, the revealer to the Christ.
The house of Annu Bethany.
The group in the house at Annu
The group in the house at Bethany.
Horus in Annu
Jesus in Bethany.
Asar or Osiris
Lazarus.
The two sisters Mertae
The two sisters Mary and Martha.
Osiris, whom Horus loved
Lazarus, whom Jesus loved.
Osiris perfumed for his burial
Jesus anointed, when the odour fills the house.
Osiris prays that he may be buried speedily
Jesus begs that his death may be effected quickly.
Osiris prepared for burial under the hair of Hathor-Meri
Jesus prepared for his burial beneath the hair of Mary
Osiris, who slept in the tomb at Annu
Lazarus, who slept in the tomb at Bethany.
Osiris raised from the tomb by Horus in Annu
Lazarus raised from the tomb at Bethany.
The mummy Osiris bidden to come forth by Horus
The mummy Lazarus bidden to come forth by Jesus
The Great One who does the work of washing
Jesus washing the feet of his disciples.
The star, as announcer for the Child-Horus
The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
The seven Hathors (or cows) who minister to Horus
The seven women who minister to Jesus.
Anup, the Precursor of Horus
John, the forerunner of Jesus the Christ.
Anup, the Baptizer
John the Baptist.
Aan, the saluter of Horus
John, the saluter of the Christ.
Aan, a name of the divine scribe
John, the divine scribe.
Hermes, the scribe
Hermas, the scribe.
Mati, the registrar
Matthew, the clerk.
Taht, Shu, and black Sut
The three kings, or Magi.
Nut at the pool of the Persea, or sycamore-tree, as giver of divine drink
The woman at the well as giver of the water.
Horus born in Annu, the place of bread
Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
The vesture put on Horus by the Goddess Tait
The swaddling clothes put on the infant Jesus.
Offerings made to the child by the worshippers in Annu
Offerings and worship of the Magi.
Child-Horus with the head of Ra
Child-Jesus with the solar glory round his head.
The Bull of Amenta in the place of birth
The ox in the birthplace of the Child.
The ass, Iu, in the birthplace
The ass in the birthplace (catacombs).
The lions of the horizon attending upon Horus
The lions attending the Child-Christ (pseudo- Matthew).
Child-Horus emerging from the Papyrus-reed
The Child-Jesus in the catacombs issuing from the Papyrus.
Horus, the ancient child
The little old Jesus in the catacombs.
Horus, the gracious child
Jesus, the child full of grace.
Horus, one of five brethren
Jesus, one of five brothers.
Horus, the brother of Sut the betrayer
Jesus, the brother of Judas the betrayer.
Amsta, the one brother of Horus in the human form
James, the human brother of Jesus.
The two sisters of Horus
The sisters of Jesus.
Horus the lad in the country and youth in town
Jesus as the child in the country and youth in town.
Horus baptized with water by Anup
Jesus baptized with water by John.
Horus in the tank of flame
Jesus the baptizer with fire.
Horus in his baptism becoming the beloved Son of God the Father
Jesus becoming the Son of God the Father in his baptism.
Horus the husbandman with the fan in his hand
Christ coming with the fan in his hand.
Horus the Good Shepherd, with the crook upon his shoulder
Jesus the Good Shepherd, with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder.
Horus with the four followers in the Mount
Jesus with the four disciples in the Mount.
Horus with the seven great spirits in the Mount
Jesus with the seven spirits in the Mount (Rev.).
Herrut the Apap-reptile, slayer of the younglings in the egg
Herod, the murderer of the innocents.
Isis commanded to take her child down into Egypt for safety
Mary warned to take her Child down into Egypt for safety.
Horus as the typical fish
Jesus as Ichthus the fish.
Horus as the fisher
Jesus as the fisher.
The four fishers with Horus as founders of the kingdom
The four fishers with Jesus as founders of the kingdom.
Sebek, the father of the fishers
Zebedee, the father of the fishers.
Two fisher-brethren, Kabhsenuf and Hapi
Two fisher-brethren, Simon and Andrew.
Two other fisher-brethren, Amsta and Tuamutef
Two other fisher-brethren, James and John.
The seven on board the bark with Horus
The seven fishers on board the bark with Jesus.
The wonderful net of the fishers
The miraculous draught of fishes in the net.
Horus as the lamb
Jesus as the lamb.
Horus as the lion
Jesus as a lion.
Horus (Iu) as the black child
Jesus as the little black bambino.
Horus as Ahi, the striker with the flabellum
Jesus wielding the scourge of cords as the striker.
Horus identified with the Tat or Cross
Jesus identified with the Cross.
The blind Horus, in two characters, as the God and Manes
The two blind men of the Gospels.
Horus of twelve years
Jesus of twelve years.
Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism
Jesus, the man of thirty years in his baptism.
Horus (Iu), the son of a beetle
Jesus, the good Scarabaeus.
Horus (or Ra) as the great cat
Jesus as the cat.
Horus as the shrewmouse
The mouse of Jesus dedicated to “Our Lady.”
Horus, the healer in the mountain
Jesus, the healer in the mountain.
Horus as Iusa, the exorcizer of evil spirits as the Word
Jesus, the caster out of demons with a word.
Osiris as the vine-plant, Aarru
Jesus as the vine.
Horus, the bringer of the fish and the grapes in Egypt
Jesus as bringer of the fish and the grapes (catacombs).
Horus, the child standing on two crocodiles which adore him
The Christ-Child adored by dragons=crocodiles.
Horus, the child of a widow
The Child-Christ who lodges with a widow in Egypt.
Horus, the child of the widow in Sutenkhen
The Child-Christ with the widow in Sotenin (pseudo-Matthew).
The golden Horus
The corn-complexioned Jesus.
Horus full of wine
Jesus the wine-bibber.
Horus, who gives the water of life
Jesus as giver of the water of life.
Horus in the lentils and the grain
Jesus the bread of life.
Horus as Unbu in the bush of thorn
Jesus in the crown of thorn.
Horus the just and true
Jesus the faithful and true.
Horus-Mat-Kheru, the Word made truth at the second coming
Jesus the spirit of truth at the Second Advent.
The human Horus glorified in becoming a (Khu) spirit
The spirit not given until Jesus is glorified.
The world made through Horus
The world made through Jesus.
Horus the bridegroom with the bride in Sothis
Jesus the bridegroom with the bride.
Horus of both sexes
Jesus as the bearded Sophia; Charis, the female Christ.
Horus who exalteth his father in every sacred place
Jesus who exalteth his father in every place.
Horus as Remi the weeper
Jesus as the weeper.
Dumb Horus, or the silent Sekari
Jesus silent before his accusers.
Horus behaving badly to Isis
Jesus speaking brutally to his mother.
Horus the gladsome
Jesus the jocund.
Horus as prince of the divine powers
Jesus the prince.
Horus the uplifted serpent
Jesus uplifted as the serpent.
Horus as the Bennu
Jesus as the phoenix.
Horus who giveth light by means of his own body
Jesus the light of the world.
Horus the hider of himself as Har-Sheta
Jesus the concealer of himself.
Horus the word-made-flesh
Jesus the word-made-flesh.
Horus the word-made-truth
Jesus the doer of the word.
Horus in the bosom of Ra
Jesus in the bosom of the Father.
Horus the Krst
Jesus the Christ.
Horus the avenger
Jesus who brings the sword.
Iu-em-hetep who comes with peace
Jesus the bringer of peace.
Horus called the illegitimate child
Jesus called the Mamzer.
Horus the afflicted one
Jesus the afflicted one.
Horus the unique one
Jesus the unique one.
Horus the lord of resurrections from the house of death
Jesus the resurrection and the life.
Horus as the type of life eternal
Jesus the type of eternal life.
Iu (em-hetep) the child-teacher in the temple
The Child-Jesus as teacher in the Temple.
Child-Horus as sower of the seed
Child-Jesus as sower of the seed.
Har-Khuti, lord of the harvest
Jesus, lord of the harvest.
Horus the founder
Jesus the founder.
Horus the fulfiller
Jesus the fulfiller.
Horus as master of the words of power
Jesus whose word was with power.
Horus Ma-kheru
Jesus, “the witness unto the truth.”
Horus as the lily
Jesus typified by the lily.
Horus the link
Jesus the bond of union.
Horus who came to fulfil the law
Jesus who comes to fulfil the law.
Horus as bearer of the Ankh-symbol of life and the Un-sceptre of resurrection
Jesus as the resurrection and the life personified.
Horus (or Khunsu) the chaser of boastfulness
Jesus the humbler of the proud.
Horus of the Second Advent
The coming Christ.
Horus the hidden force
Jesus the concealed.
Horus as Kam-Ura, the overflower, and extender of the water illimitably
Jesus, giver of the water of life without limit.
Horus, who came by the water, the blood and the spirit
Jesus, who came by the water, the blood and the spirit.
Horus the opener as Unen
Jesus the opener with the keys.
Horus of the two horizons
Jesus of the two lands.
Horus as teacher of the living generation
Jesus as teacher on the earth.
Horus as teacher of the spirits in Amenta
Jesus as preacher to the spirits in prison.
Horus as teacher on the Atit-bark, with the seven glorious ones on board
Jesus the teacher on the boat, also with the seven fishers on board.
Horus uttering the words of Ra in the solar bark
Jesus uttering the parables on board the boat.
Horus walking the water
Jesus walking the water.
The blind mummy made to see by Horus
The blind man given sight by Jesus.
Horus and the Hamemmet or younglings of Shu
Jesus and the little ones.
The children of Horus
The children of Jesus.
Horus the raiser of the dead
Jesus the raiser of the dead.
Horus the raiser up of Asar
Jesus the raiser up of Lazarus.
Horus, who imparts the power of the resurrection to his children
Jesus who confers the same power on his followers.
Horus entering the mount at sunset to hold converse with his father
Jesus entering the mount at sunset to hold converse with his father.
Horus one with the father
Jesus one with his father.
Horus transfigured on the mount
Jesus transfigured on the mount.
Amsu-Horus in his resurrection as a Sahu- mummy
Jesus rising again corporeally or incorporated.
The blood of Isis The issue of blood suffered by the woman.
The field manured with blood in Tattu Aceldama.
The mummy-bandage that was woven without seam
The vesture of the Christ without a seam.
Seven souls of Ra the Holy Spirit
Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Seven hawks of Ra the Holy Spirit
Seven doves of the Holy Spirit.
Seven loaves of Horus for feeding the multitude reposing in the green fields of Annu
Seven loaves of Jesus for feeding the multitude reclining on the grass.
Twelve followers of Har-Khuti
Twelve followers of Jesus, as the twelve disciples.
Horus with the twelve in the field of divine harvest
Jesus with the twelve in the harvest-field.
The twelve who reap for Horus
The twelve who reap for Jesus.
Horus as the intercessor
Jesus as the paraclete.
Horus as the great judge
Jesus as the great judge.
The judgment of the righteous, who are the sheep of Horus, the good shepherd
Judgment of the righteous, who are the sheep of Jesus the Good Shepherd.
The judgment of the guilty, who are the goats of Sut
Judgment of the wicked, who are the goats of Satan.
Horus parting off the evil dead
Jesus parting off the accursed.
The condemned spirits entering the swine
The evil spirits entering the swine.
The glorious ones that wait on Horus
The angels that minister unto Jesus.
Horus ascending to heaven from Bakhu, the Mount of the olive tree
Jesus ascending to heaven from Mount Olivet.
The revelation of Horus, given by Ra, his father, to make known the mysteries of divine things to his followers
The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show unto his servants.
The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti), the scribe of divine words
The Revelation written by John the divine.
The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus
John, who bears witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan
The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.
The books in Annu
The book of doom and the book of life in Patmos.
The books and their bringer
The book and its opener.
Seven dungeon-seals
The book with seven seals.
The great mother Apt, the pregnant water-cow
The woman sitting on the waters.
The crocodile as great mother
The dragon as great mother.
The great mother as Hathor, the abode
The woman that was the great city personalized.
The great or enceinte mother in her lunar character
The woman arrayed with the sun about to bring forth the child
Isis, who brought forth Horus in the marshes
The woman who brought forth in the wilderness.
Isis pursued by the great crocodile
The woman persecuted by the dragon.
Isis, hawk-winged
The woman with eagle’s wings.
The bride as Hathor-Isis, with the calf or lamb upon the mount of glory
The bride as the lamb’s wife upon the mount.
Atum-Huhi, the closer and the opener of Amenta
Ihuh, who carries the keys of death and Hades as closer and opener.
Atum-Ra, the holy spirit
The spirit.
Hathor-Iusāas the bride, with Horus the lamb (or earlier calf) upon the mount
The bride with the lamb upon the mount.
Anup and Aan, the two witnesses for Horus
The two Johns as witnesses for Jesus.
The seven Khuti or glorious ones
The seven spirits of God.
Horus, with the seven Khabsu stars, or gods of the lamp
Jesus in the midst of the seven golden lamp- stands.
Sebek-Horus the lamb on the mount
Jesus the lamb on the mount.
Horus the morning star
Jesus the morning star.
Horus, who gives the morning star to his followers
Jesus, who gives the morning star to his followers.
The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus
The servants of Jesus Christ.
The seven spirits of fire around the throne of Ra
The seven spirits of fire before the throne.
The fathers, or the ancient ones
The four-and-twenty elders.
The four corner-keepers
The four living creatures at the four corners.
The solar god of golden form
The form with feet like unto burnished brass, and countenance as of the sun.
Iu the son of man (or Atum)
Jesus the son of man.
Horus as the first-born from the dead
Jesus the Christ as first-born of those that slept.
Horus in the house of a thousand years
The Millennial reign of Jesus.
Sebek the solar dragon
The scarlet-coloured beast with seven heads.
Seven souls or powers of Ra
Seven heads of the solar dragon.
The eighth to the seven
The eighth to the seven.
Ten Tata-gods or powers
The ten horns or kings.
The war in heaven
The war in heaven.
Har-Tema as the avenger, the red god who orders the block of execution
The word of God, faithful and true, with raiment dipped in blood.
Har-Makhu
Michael the Archangel.
Sut the accuser
Satan the accuser.
Sut and Horus
Christ and the Anti-Christ.
The celestial Heptanomis
The seven mountains of earth or islands in the sea.
The seven children of the old earth-mother
The seven kings of the earth.
Horus at the head of the seven
Jesus at the head of the seven.
The last judgment
The last judgment.
The mount of glory
The throne set in heaven on the mount.
The mount as judgment-seat
The mount as throne of the Great Judge.
The lion-faced throne of steel
The great white throne.
The great judge seated on his throne
The Great Judge on the judgment-seat.
The god in lion form
The god who is the lion of the Tribe of Judah.
The god in the solar disc
The god with the sun-like countenance.
The god whose dazzling mouth sends forth breezes of flame
The god from whose mouth proceeded the two-edged sword.
Osiris-Tat, the sufferer in the Lower Egypt of Amenta
The Lord who was crucified in Egypt.
The Apap-reptile, the serpent of evil
Abaddon, Apollyon, or Satan, that old serpent.
Apap, the power of evil in the Abyss
Abaddon or Apollyon, the angel of the Abyss.
The binding of Apap in chains and casting the beast into the Abyss
The binding of the dragon, that old serpent, and casting him into the Pit.
Apap and Sut bound in chains and cast into the Abyss
The Devil and Satan bound in a great chain and cast into the Pit.
The Ankh-key of life and the Un-symbol of the resurrection
The keys of death and Hades in the hands of the opener.
The first resurrection and the second death in Amenta
The first resurrection and the second death.
The Lake of Putrata where the lost souls fall headlong into everlasting night
The lake of the second death.
The beatified in their white garments of glory
The beatified spirits arrayed in white.
The name of Ra on the head of the deceased
The name of the Father written on the forehead.
The little column of white stone given as a talisman to the initiates
The white stone given to the initiated.
The mount of the double earth in Hetep
The mountain great and high.
The eternal city at the summit
The Holy City.
The water of life as lake or river
The river of the water of life.
The two divine sycamores over the water of life
The tree of life on either side of the water of life.
The water of life proceeding from the throne of Osiris.
The water of life proceeding from the throne of God.
The great lake in Hetep upon which the gods and glorified alight
The glassy sea on which the victors stand triumphant.
The great white lake of Sa
The sea of crystal.
The calf (later lamb) of Horus standing on the mount with Hathor bearing the bride
The lamb standing on Mount Zion with the bride.
The lunar goddess Hathor bearing the solar orb
The woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon at her feet.
The glorified in Hetep stoled and girdled and crowned
The angels girt about the breasts with golden girdles.
The emerald dawn around the mount or throne of Ra
The rainbow like an emerald round the throne.
The Ba enclosure of Aarru, in twelve measures
The walled enclosure of the New Jerusalem, in twelve measures.
Heaven according to the measure of a man
Heaven according to the measure of a man.
The paradise of the pole-star
The Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the sun nor the moon=the pole-star.
The ark of Osiris-Ra
The Ark of the New Covenant in heaven.
Obviously any historian will tell you that they existed independantly, and actually existed.
About the similarities, there are similarities between many historical figures...does that mean they did not exist independantly?
which historian(s) says Jesus 'actually' existed?
The beauty of truth is that it doesn't matter what anyone says, or thinks, it remains constant forever.
And SELF-existant
I could find hundreds of similarities with my life and relate it to a billion other things on earth--- but I exist regardless of those things.
Keep counting Tril, the Wisdom of God confounds the wise...
John 21: 25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
:D
Praise the Lord of Hosts
Trilairian
11-16-05, 11:49 AM
I could find hundreds of similarities with my life and relate it to a billion other things on earth--- but I exist regardless of those things.
Keep counting Tril, the Wisdom of God confounds the wise...
John 21: 25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
:D
Praise the Lord of Hosts
And you even still end your ranting invoking the god Amen. Well so much for a valid counter argument.
LOL, what's valid to you Tril? Is it that the poll says more people think you're full of crap?
Jesus was still born in Bethlehem.
Wait here is a similarity.
Jesus was Born...
I was born!!! OMG!!!
Does that mean I am like Horus?
You like pizza?
I LIKE PIZZA!!!!!
Trilairian
11-16-05, 12:09 PM
Jesus was still born in Bethlehem.
Wait here is a similarity.
Jesus was Born...
I was born!!! OMG!!!
Does that mean I am like Horus?
You like pizza?
I LIKE PIZZA!!!!!
Horus born in Annu, the place of bread
Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
The evidence is overwealming. Why are you to afraid to face the truth? Don't you have faith?
Matt. 2: 1
NOW when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Okay, there is a writing.
Now find some text more ancient then the book of Matthew, where it Says Horus was born in Annu.
Reference it. And quit making stuff up. Or copying other people made up lies.
Oh wait, that's just Anti-Christ Propaganda. There is no evidence...
Trilairian
11-16-05, 01:58 PM
Matt. 2: 1
NOW when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Okay, there is a writing.
Now find some text more ancient then the book of Matthew, where it Says Horus was born in Annu.
Reference it. And quit making stuff up. Or copying other people made up lies.
I'm not making stuff up and these aren't lies. You are doing mental gymnastics again. The anchient text is
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever
written 3000 BC
wherein Horus is born in Annu. Google search it, and next time look it up yourself.
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever---
Ok so first of all, it's nowhere to be found and it is only spoken of.
(Everyone go look for it, first to find it and reference it gets a cookie)
Your failure to produce a source of where you got your assertions is also testimony of their fallacy. You can't produce any written publication or documentation where these words are spoken. Only Anti-Christ websites, which don't even contain reference or citing to the original source of the information.
Once again you can make alot of claims, you don't back them up, when asked for reference you tell me to look it up; Rather than provide the reference yourself.
So far I posted a reference where Jesus was born in Bethlehem, you have no source or citation of where it says Horus was born in Annu, or a "place of bread".
Rather than go line by line and disprove all of your lies. I will just rest my case in the evidence beforehand. You have no FOUNDATION at all for any of your speculations. No publications, no written ancient words.
The Bible > everything you say.
Interesting that the bible is so easlily and readily at hand for reference but your sources are ..................nowhere to be found. And you can't provide them but one must "search" for them in google. . LOL.... Even Wikipedia, and other online encyclopedia's and Dictionary's don't contain any of your fabrications.
I did find this however, which was pleasing to me, while searching for your purported book that you failed to source or cite it's location.
This is the best one...read this if you don't read any of the rest
10 Horus born in Annu, the place of bread
Hitler born in a town with a bakery
LOL~~~~
HITLER --- HORUS!!!
1 Horus is the father seen in the son
Hitler’s superior qualities reflected in many sons of Germany
2 Horus claimed to be the light of the world
Hitler claimed to enlighten Germany politically
5 Horus says “It is I who traverse the heavens… Eternity has been assigned to me without end
Hitler traversed the skies by aeroplane and offered to make Germany forever powerful
8 Horus baptized with water
Hitler baptized as an infant in water
9 Horus had a divine scribe
Hitler had scribes
10 Horus born in Annu, the place of bread
Hitler born in a town with a bakery
16 Horus of 12 years
Hitler at 12 years in highschool
17 Horus A man of 30 years
Hitler joined Nazi Party at 30
18-19 Horus the KRST and manifesting son of God.
Hitler seen as a saviour
20 Horus the Trinity
Hitler, Goebels and Himler
21 Horus Child of a virgin
Hitler’s mother a virgin prior to being mistress of H’s father
23-24 Horus taken by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep
Hitler’s retreat at Berchtesgarten
26 Horus the avenger
Hitler avenger of Versaille Treaty
27 Horus comes with peace
Hitler repeatedly promised peace
28 Horus the afflicted one
Hitler the afflicted one
32 Horus has 12 followers
Hitler had 12
33 Horus Revelation written down by divine scribe Aan
Hitler’s secretary wrote down his Will and Testament in 1945
34 Horus—Aani bears witness
Hitler—Goebels his propaganda minister
35 Horus—The secret mysteries revealed by That-Aan
Hitler—Albert Speer wrote a book “Inside the Third Reich”
36 Horus The morning star
Hitler comforted by astrology
39 Horus The paradise of the Pole star
Hitler had a model of how Berlin would be rebuilt
40 Servants of Horus
Servants of Hitler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Tril, any references you want me to consider before I put the nail in your coffin? :confused:
VitalOne
11-16-05, 03:23 PM
You wish.
To this level of correspondence. Yes.
Here is a list of things stolen by Jesus writers from Egyptian leagend:
http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm
The Mysteries
The miracles
The Sem, or mythical representations
The parables
The Ritual as the book of resurrection
The Book of Revelation
The sayings of Iu or Iu-em-hetep
The Sayings of Jesus
Huhi the father in heaven as the eternal, a title of Atum-Ra Ihuh,
the father in heaven as the eternal.
Ra, the holy spirit God
the Holy Ghost.
Ra the father of Iu the Su, or son of God, with the hawk or dove as the bird of the holy spirit
God, the Father of Jesus, with the dove as the bird of the Holy Spirit.
Iu or Horus, the manifesting son of God
Jesus the manifesting Son of God.
The trinity of Osiris the father, Horus (or Iu) the son, and Isis
The Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Iu-Su or Iusa, the coming son of Iusāas, who was great with Iusa or Iusu
Jesus.
The ever-coming Messu or Child as Egyptian
The Hebrew Messianic Child.
Horus (or Heru), the Lord by name,
as a child Child-Jesus as the Lord by name (Gospels of the Infancy).
Meh-Isis, the virgin mother of Iu, her Su or son
Mary the virgin mother of Jesus.
The first Horus as Child of the Virgin, the second as son of Ra, the father
Jesus the Virgin’s child, the Christ as son of the father
The first Horus as the founder, the second as fulfiller for the father
Jesus as the founder, and the Christ as fulfiller for the father.
The two mothers of Child-Horus, Isis and Nephthys, who were two sisters
The two mothers of Child-Jesus, who were sisters.
Meri or Nut, the mother-heaven
Mary as Regina Coeli.
The outcast great mother with her seven sons
Mary Magdalene, with her seven devils.
Isis taken by Horus in adultery with Sut
The woman taken in adultery.
Apt, the crib or manger, by name as the birthplace and mother in one
The manger as cradle of the Child-Christ.
Seb, the earth-father, as consort to the virgin Meh
Joseph, the father on earth, as putative husband to the Virgin Mary.
Seb, the foster-father to Child-Horus
Joseph, as foster-father to the Child-Jesus.
Seb, Isis and Horus, the Kamite holy trinity
Joseph, Mary and Jesus, a Christian holy trinity.
Seb, the builder of the house, the carpenter
Joseph, the carpenter.
Seb, the custodian of the mummied dead
Joseph of Arimathea, the keeper of the Corpus Christi.
Sut and Horus, the twin opponents
Satan and Jesus, the twin opponents.
Horus, the sower, and Sut, the destroyer, in the harvest-field J
esus, the sower of the good seed, and Satan, the sower of tares.
Sut and Horus contending in the desert
Satan and Jesus contending in the wilderness.
Sut and Horus contending on the Ben-Ben or Pyramidion
Satan and Jesus contending on the pinnacle.
Horus carried off by Sut to the summit of Mount Hetep
Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceeding high mountain.
Sut and Horus contending on the mount
Satan and Jesus contending on the mount.
Sut undoing the good that Horus does
Satan sowing tares by night.
S’men, for Khemen, a title of Taht Simeon.
S’men, who held Child-Horus in his arms as the young solar god
Simeon, who took the Child-Jesus in his arms.
Anna or Annit (a title of Hathor), with Taht-S’men
Anna, the prophetess, with Simeon.
The Petar or Petra by name in Egyptian as Revealer to Horus
Peter, the revealer to the Christ.
The house of Annu Bethany.
The group in the house at Annu
The group in the house at Bethany.
Horus in Annu
Jesus in Bethany.
Asar or Osiris
Lazarus.
The two sisters Mertae
The two sisters Mary and Martha.
Osiris, whom Horus loved
Lazarus, whom Jesus loved.
Osiris perfumed for his burial
Jesus anointed, when the odour fills the house.
Osiris prays that he may be buried speedily
Jesus begs that his death may be effected quickly.
Osiris prepared for burial under the hair of Hathor-Meri
Jesus prepared for his burial beneath the hair of Mary
Osiris, who slept in the tomb at Annu
Lazarus, who slept in the tomb at Bethany.
Osiris raised from the tomb by Horus in Annu
Lazarus raised from the tomb at Bethany.
The mummy Osiris bidden to come forth by Horus
The mummy Lazarus bidden to come forth by Jesus
The Great One who does the work of washing
Jesus washing the feet of his disciples.
The star, as announcer for the Child-Horus
The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
The seven Hathors (or cows) who minister to Horus
The seven women who minister to Jesus.
Anup, the Precursor of Horus
John, the forerunner of Jesus the Christ.
Anup, the Baptizer
John the Baptist.
Aan, the saluter of Horus
John, the saluter of the Christ.
Aan, a name of the divine scribe
John, the divine scribe.
Hermes, the scribe
Hermas, the scribe.
Mati, the registrar
Matthew, the clerk.
Taht, Shu, and black Sut
The three kings, or Magi.
Nut at the pool of the Persea, or sycamore-tree, as giver of divine drink
The woman at the well as giver of the water.
Horus born in Annu, the place of bread
Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
The vesture put on Horus by the Goddess Tait
The swaddling clothes put on the infant Jesus.
Offerings made to the child by the worshippers in Annu
Offerings and worship of the Magi.
Child-Horus with the head of Ra
Child-Jesus with the solar glory round his head.
The Bull of Amenta in the place of birth
The ox in the birthplace of the Child.
The ass, Iu, in the birthplace
The ass in the birthplace (catacombs).
The lions of the horizon attending upon Horus
The lions attending the Child-Christ (pseudo- Matthew).
Child-Horus emerging from the Papyrus-reed
The Child-Jesus in the catacombs issuing from the Papyrus.
Horus, the ancient child
The little old Jesus in the catacombs.
Horus, the gracious child
Jesus, the child full of grace.
Horus, one of five brethren
Jesus, one of five brothers.
Horus, the brother of Sut the betrayer
Jesus, the brother of Judas the betrayer.
Amsta, the one brother of Horus in the human form
James, the human brother of Jesus.
The two sisters of Horus
The sisters of Jesus.
Horus the lad in the country and youth in town
Jesus as the child in the country and youth in town.
Horus baptized with water by Anup
Jesus baptized with water by John.
Horus in the tank of flame
Jesus the baptizer with fire.
Horus in his baptism becoming the beloved Son of God the Father
Jesus becoming the Son of God the Father in his baptism.
Horus the husbandman with the fan in his hand
Christ coming with the fan in his hand.
Horus the Good Shepherd, with the crook upon his shoulder
Jesus the Good Shepherd, with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder.
Horus with the four followers in the Mount
Jesus with the four disciples in the Mount.
Horus with the seven great spirits in the Mount
Jesus with the seven spirits in the Mount (Rev.).
Herrut the Apap-reptile, slayer of the younglings in the egg
Herod, the murderer of the innocents.
Isis commanded to take her child down into Egypt for safety
Mary warned to take her Child down into Egypt for safety.
Horus as the typical fish
Jesus as Ichthus the fish.
Horus as the fisher
Jesus as the fisher.
The four fishers with Horus as founders of the kingdom
The four fishers with Jesus as founders of the kingdom.
Sebek, the father of the fishers
Zebedee, the father of the fishers.
Two fisher-brethren, Kabhsenuf and Hapi
Two fisher-brethren, Simon and Andrew.
Two other fisher-brethren, Amsta and Tuamutef
Two other fisher-brethren, James and John.
The seven on board the bark with Horus
The seven fishers on board the bark with Jesus.
The wonderful net of the fishers
The miraculous draught of fishes in the net.
Horus as the lamb
Jesus as the lamb.
Horus as the lion
Jesus as a lion.
Horus (Iu) as the black child
Jesus as the little black bambino.
Horus as Ahi, the striker with the flabellum
Jesus wielding the scourge of cords as the striker.
Horus identified with the Tat or Cross
Jesus identified with the Cross.
The blind Horus, in two characters, as the God and Manes
The two blind men of the Gospels.
Horus of twelve years
Jesus of twelve years.
Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism
Jesus, the man of thirty years in his baptism.
Horus (Iu), the son of a beetle
Jesus, the good Scarabaeus.
Horus (or Ra) as the great cat
Jesus as the cat.
Horus as the shrewmouse
The mouse of Jesus dedicated to “Our Lady.”
Horus, the healer in the mountain
Jesus, the healer in the mountain.
Horus as Iusa, the exorcizer of evil spirits as the Word
Jesus, the caster out of demons with a word.
Osiris as the vine-plant, Aarru
Jesus as the vine.
Horus, the bringer of the fish and the grapes in Egypt
Jesus as bringer of the fish and the grapes (catacombs).
Horus, the child standing on two crocodiles which adore him
The Christ-Child adored by dragons=crocodiles.
Horus, the child of a widow
The Child-Christ who lodges with a widow in Egypt.
Horus, the child of the widow in Sutenkhen
The Child-Christ with the widow in Sotenin (pseudo-Matthew).
The golden Horus
The corn-complexioned Jesus.
Horus full of wine
Jesus the wine-bibber.
Horus, who gives the water of life
Jesus as giver of the water of life.
Horus in the lentils and the grain
Jesus the bread of life.
Horus as Unbu in the bush of thorn
Jesus in the crown of thorn.
Horus the just and true
Jesus the faithful and true.
Horus-Mat-Kheru, the Word made truth at the second coming
Jesus the spirit of truth at the Second Advent.
The human Horus glorified in becoming a (Khu) spirit
The spirit not given until Jesus is glorified.
The world made through Horus
The world made through Jesus.
Horus the bridegroom with the bride in Sothis
Jesus the bridegroom with the bride.
Horus of both sexes
Jesus as the bearded Sophia; Charis, the female Christ.
Horus who exalteth his father in every sacred place
Jesus who exalteth his father in every place.
Horus as Remi the weeper
Jesus as the weeper.
Dumb Horus, or the silent Sekari
Jesus silent before his accusers.
Horus behaving badly to Isis
Jesus speaking brutally to his mother.
Horus the gladsome
Jesus the jocund.
Horus as prince of the divine powers
Jesus the prince.
Horus the uplifted serpent
Jesus uplifted as the serpent.
Horus as the Bennu
Jesus as the phoenix.
Horus who giveth light by means of his own body
Jesus the light of the world.
Horus the hider of himself as Har-Sheta
Jesus the concealer of himself.
Horus the word-made-flesh
Jesus the word-made-flesh.
Horus the word-made-truth
Jesus the doer of the word.
Horus in the bosom of Ra
Jesus in the bosom of the Father.
Horus the Krst
Jesus the Christ.
Horus the avenger
Jesus who brings the sword.
Iu-em-hetep who comes with peace
Jesus the bringer of peace.
Horus called the illegitimate child
Jesus called the Mamzer.
Horus the afflicted one
Jesus the afflicted one.
Horus the unique one
Jesus the unique one.
Horus the lord of resurrections from the house of death
Jesus the resurrection and the life.
Horus as the type of life eternal
Jesus the type of eternal life.
Iu (em-hetep) the child-teacher in the temple
The Child-Jesus as teacher in the Temple.
Child-Horus as sower of the seed
Child-Jesus as sower of the seed.
Har-Khuti, lord of the harvest
Jesus, lord of the harvest.
Horus the founder
Jesus the founder.
Horus the fulfiller
Jesus the fulfiller.
Horus as master of the words of power
Jesus whose word was with power.
Horus Ma-kheru
Jesus, “the witness unto the truth.”
Horus as the lily
Jesus typified by the lily.
Horus the link
Jesus the bond of union.
Horus who came to fulfil the law
Jesus who comes to fulfil the law.
Horus as bearer of the Ankh-symbol of life and the Un-sceptre of resurrection
Jesus as the resurrection and the life personified.
Horus (or Khunsu) the chaser of boastfulness
Jesus the humbler of the proud.
Horus of the Second Advent
The coming Christ.
Horus the hidden force
Jesus the concealed.
Horus as Kam-Ura, the overflower, and extender of the water illimitably
Jesus, giver of the water of life without limit.
Horus, who came by the water, the blood and the spirit
Jesus, who came by the water, the blood and the spirit.
Horus the opener as Unen
Jesus the opener with the keys.
Horus of the two horizons
Jesus of the two lands.
Horus as teacher of the living generation
Jesus as teacher on the earth.
Horus as teacher of the spirits in Amenta
Jesus as preacher to the spirits in prison.
Horus as teacher on the Atit-bark, with the seven glorious ones on board
Jesus the teacher on the boat, also with the seven fishers on board.
Horus uttering the words of Ra in the solar bark
Jesus uttering the parables on board the boat.
Horus walking the water
Jesus walking the water.
The blind mummy made to see by Horus
The blind man given sight by Jesus.
Horus and the Hamemmet or younglings of Shu
Jesus and the little ones.
The children of Horus
The children of Jesus.
Horus the raiser of the dead
Jesus the raiser of the dead.
Horus the raiser up of Asar
Jesus the raiser up of Lazarus.
Horus, who imparts the power of the resurrection to his children
Jesus who confers the same power on his followers.
Horus entering the mount at sunset to hold converse with his father
Jesus entering the mount at sunset to hold converse with his father.
Horus one with the father
Jesus one with his father.
Horus transfigured on the mount
Jesus transfigured on the mount.
Amsu-Horus in his resurrection as a Sahu- mummy
Jesus rising again corporeally or incorporated.
The blood of Isis The issue of blood suffered by the woman.
The field manured with blood in Tattu Aceldama.
The mummy-bandage that was woven without seam
The vesture of the Christ without a seam.
Seven souls of Ra the Holy Spirit
Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Seven hawks of Ra the Holy Spirit
Seven doves of the Holy Spirit.
Seven loaves of Horus for feeding the multitude reposing in the green fields of Annu
Seven loaves of Jesus for feeding the multitude reclining on the grass.
Twelve followers of Har-Khuti
Twelve followers of Jesus, as the twelve disciples.
Horus with the twelve in the field of divine harvest
Jesus with the twelve in the harvest-field.
The twelve who reap for Horus
The twelve who reap for Jesus.
Horus as the intercessor
Jesus as the paraclete.
Horus as the great judge
Jesus as the great judge.
The judgment of the righteous, who are the sheep of Horus, the good shepherd
Judgment of the righteous, who are the sheep of Jesus the Good Shepherd.
The judgment of the guilty, who are the goats of Sut
Judgment of the wicked, who are the goats of Satan.
Horus parting off the evil dead
Jesus parting off the accursed.
The condemned spirits entering the swine
The evil spirits entering the swine.
The glorious ones that wait on Horus
The angels that minister unto Jesus.
Horus ascending to heaven from Bakhu, the Mount of the olive tree
Jesus ascending to heaven from Mount Olivet.
The revelation of Horus, given by Ra, his father, to make known the mysteries of divine things to his followers
The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show unto his servants.
The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti), the scribe of divine words
The Revelation written by John the divine.
The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus
John, who bears witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan
The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.
The books in Annu
The book of doom and the book of life in Patmos.
The books and their bringer
The book and its opener.
Seven dungeon-seals
The book with seven seals.
The great mother Apt, the pregnant water-cow
The woman sitting on the waters.
The crocodile as great mother
The dragon as great mother.
The great mother as Hathor, the abode
The woman that was the great city personalized.
The great or enceinte mother in her lunar character
The woman arrayed with the sun about to bring forth the child
Isis, who brought forth Horus in the marshes
The woman who brought forth in the wilderness.
Isis pursued by the great crocodile
The woman persecuted by the dragon.
Isis, hawk-winged
The woman with eagle’s wings.
The bride as Hathor-Isis, with the calf or lamb upon the mount of glory
The bride as the lamb’s wife upon the mount.
Atum-Huhi, the closer and the opener of Amenta
Ihuh, who carries the keys of death and Hades as closer and opener.
Atum-Ra, the holy spirit
The spirit.
Hathor-Iusāas the bride, with Horus the lamb (or earlier calf) upon the mount
The bride with the lamb upon the mount.
Anup and Aan, the two witnesses for Horus
The two Johns as witnesses for Jesus.
The seven Khuti or glorious ones
The seven spirits of God.
Horus, with the seven Khabsu stars, or gods of the lamp
Jesus in the midst of the seven golden lamp- stands.
Sebek-Horus the lamb on the mount
Jesus the lamb on the mount.
Horus the morning star
Jesus the morning star.
Horus, who gives the morning star to his followers
Jesus, who gives the morning star to his followers.
The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus
The servants of Jesus Christ.
The seven spirits of fire around the throne of Ra
The seven spirits of fire before the throne.
The fathers, or the ancient ones
The four-and-twenty elders.
The four corner-keepers
The four living creatures at the four corners.
The solar god of golden form
The form with feet like unto burnished brass, and countenance as of the sun.
Iu the son of man (or Atum)
Jesus the son of man.
Horus as the first-born from the dead
Jesus the Christ as first-born of those that slept.
Horus in the house of a thousand years
The Millennial reign of Jesus.
Sebek the solar dragon
The scarlet-coloured beast with seven heads.
Seven souls or powers of Ra
Seven heads of the solar dragon.
The eighth to the seven
The eighth to the seven.
Ten Tata-gods or powers
The ten horns or kings.
The war in heaven
The war in heaven.
Har-Tema as the avenger, the red god who orders the block of execution
The word of God, faithful and true, with raiment dipped in blood.
Har-Makhu
Michael the Archangel.
Sut the accuser
Satan the accuser.
Sut and Horus
Christ and the Anti-Christ.
The celestial Heptanomis
The seven mountains of earth or islands in the sea.
The seven children of the old earth-mother
The seven kings of the earth.
Horus at the head of the seven
Jesus at the head of the seven.
The last judgment
The last judgment.
The mount of glory
The throne set in heaven on the mount.
The mount as judgment-seat
The mount as throne of the Great Judge.
The lion-faced throne of steel
The great white throne.
The great judge seated on his throne
The Great Judge on the judgment-seat.
The god in lion form
The god who is the lion of the Tribe of Judah.
The god in the solar disc
The god with the sun-like countenance.
The god whose dazzling mouth sends forth breezes of flame
The god from whose mouth proceeded the two-edged sword.
Osiris-Tat, the sufferer in the Lower Egypt of Amenta
The Lord who was crucified in Egypt.
The Apap-reptile, the serpent of evil
Abaddon, Apollyon, or Satan, that old serpent.
Apap, the power of evil in the Abyss
Abaddon or Apollyon, the angel of the Abyss.
The binding of Apap in chains and casting the beast into the Abyss
The binding of the dragon, that old serpent, and casting him into the Pit.
Apap and Sut bound in chains and cast into the Abyss
The Devil and Satan bound in a great chain and cast into the Pit.
The Ankh-key of life and the Un-symbol of the resurrection
The keys of death and Hades in the hands of the opener.
The first resurrection and the second death in Amenta
The first resurrection and the second death.
The Lake of Putrata where the lost souls fall headlong into everlasting night
The lake of the second death.
The beatified in their white garments of glory
The beatified spirits arrayed in white.
The name of Ra on the head of the deceased
The name of the Father written on the forehead.
The little column of white stone given as a talisman to the initiates
The white stone given to the initiated.
The mount of the double earth in Hetep
The mountain great and high.
The eternal city at the summit
The Holy City.
The water of life as lake or river
The river of the water of life.
The two divine sycamores over the water of life
The tree of life on either side of the water of life.
The water of life proceeding from the throne of Osiris.
The water of life proceeding from the throne of God.
The great lake in Hetep upon which the gods and glorified alight
The glassy sea on which the victors stand triumphant.
The great white lake of Sa
The sea of crystal.
The calf (later lamb) of Horus standing on the mount with Hathor bearing the bride
The lamb standing on Mount Zion with the bride.
The lunar goddess Hathor bearing the solar orb
The woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon at her feet.
The glorified in Hetep stoled and girdled and crowned
The angels girt about the breasts with golden girdles.
The emerald dawn around the mount or throne of Ra
The rainbow like an emerald round the throne.
The Ba enclosure of Aarru, in twelve measures
The walled enclosure of the New Jerusalem, in twelve measures.
Heaven according to the measure of a man
Heaven according to the measure of a man.
The paradise of the pole-star
The Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the sun nor the moon=the pole-star.
The ark of Osiris-Ra
The Ark of the New Covenant in heaven.
First, the majority of all scholars will tell you that Jesus was an actual person, who lived (they may not agree on the miracles or whatever), and had a factual existence at sometime in history.
Secondly, you're using cardstacking propaganda. I can take almost any 2 people and find many similarities between them, and list them out, it still does not mean that they didn't exist independantly.
Maybe Alexander the Great did not exist either, or maybe George Washington is another myth :rolleyes:
Medicine*Woman
11-16-05, 06:01 PM
I could find hundreds of similarities with my life and relate it to a billion other things on earth--- but I exist regardless of those things.
Keep counting Tril, the Wisdom of God confounds the wise...
John 21: 25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
:D
Praise the Lord of Hosts
*************
M*W: The wisdom of atheism confounds the gods.
Trilairian
11-16-05, 08:02 PM
First, the majority of all scholars will tell you that Jesus was an actual person, who lived (they may not agree on the miracles or whatever), and had a factual existence at sometime in history.
That isn't what I''m finding. I cut the drivel.
Trilairian
11-16-05, 08:06 PM
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever---
Ok so first of all, it's nowhere to be found and it is only spoken of.
(Everyone go look for it, first to find it and reference it gets a cookie)
No, I told you where to find it.
Your failure to produce a source of where you got your assertions is also testimony of their fallacy.
I produced a source liar.
I will just rest my case in the evidence beforehand.
No you won't. You'l lkeep apologising.
I cut the rest of your irrelevent drivel.
VitalOne
11-16-05, 08:37 PM
That isn't what I''m finding. I cut the drivel.
Cut the drivel? You should be telling that to yourself.
Roman historians Tacitus, Suetonius, Julius Africanus, Thallus, Josephus, among others clearly describe that Jesus did indeed exist.
Do some research, only a small number of theologians today believe that Jesus did not exist.
I produced a source liar.
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever can't be found anywhere not even amazon.com, or ebay.
So you just believe in what http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm
says without even having a valid source?
That's not even a source... you have no source! People can't even read up on the things you post except from the Anti-Christ Sites.
You have no historical data at all sourced.
Medicine*Woman
11-16-05, 10:14 PM
Cut the drivel? You should be telling that to yourself.
Roman historians Tacitus, Suetonius, Julius Africanus, Thallus, Josephus, among others clearly describe that Jesus did indeed exist.
Do some research, only a small number of theologians today believe that Jesus did not exist.
*************
M*W: You are wrong. Scholars believe Josephus was a forgery. You're the one who needs to at least read the latest biblical research. There are a significant number of christian scholars out there today who doubt the authenticity of Jesus's virgin birth, his death on the cross, his resurrection and the trinity. There are certainly many more non-christian biblical scholars and archeologists who deny his existence.
Peter, Paul and John the Baptist, Abraham and Moses, are considered by many biblical scholars to be figurative personages. Please visit your local library or bookstore before you make anymore assinine comments.
Well I'm a scholar! And I say he lived!
Trilairian
11-17-05, 12:46 AM
Well I'm a scholar! And I say he lived!
No your not and your opinion doesn't count.
Trilairian
11-17-05, 12:47 AM
Cut the drivel? You should be telling that to yourself.
Roman historians Tacitus, Suetonius, Julius Africanus, Thallus, Josephus, among others clearly describe that Jesus did indeed exist.
Do some research, only a small number of theologians today believe that Jesus did not exist.
Nope.
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
Or is Trilairian lost in vain associations? Let the poll decide.
Jesus almost certainly, simply because of locality--the Levant being close to Egypt, and under Egyptian control for a long time in the deep past. Bhudda less so, at a guess--except that there was trade by sea between India and Egypt a long time back, so there's always the possibility of ideas passing back and forth along the trade routes.
No your not and your opinion doesn't count.
Least I don't fail at debate like u do man. You don't even respond to all of the things that tear your dim-witted dogmas down. And you don't even hold them up under critisism and scrutiny.
You establish yourself in hear-say, without fact.
You can't provide a link or reference to a book you say exists...
And I feel like I'm surrounded by RETARDS because I'm the only one that is pointing out there is no BOOK OF VIVIFYING THE SOUL FOREVER, available. And i'm the only one actually looking into your claims.
I tell you it's nowhere to be found for research, not on amazon or on Ebay, or google books. And you respond with--- your typical manurer. You're utterly pathetic and anyone that believes you is blind as well. Blind leading the blind, congratulations because you're all retarded. The way people accept your posts without looking into them is worse that people blindly believing in the bible, because at least the bible is a record.
Jesus being born in Bethlehem is still held in a firm, published, circulated and available text for research. Horus born in Annu is--- established and founded on modern deceit.
And you other people that are reading this thread, that disagree with Trilairian, but aren't looking into his claims; Look up the book, you won't find it. And put him on the spot for being a fraud, because unless more people point it out to him, he won't realize what's going on.
EmptyForceOfChi
11-17-05, 11:50 AM
i dont know about jesus, but buddha no its not rooted from egyptian mythology, it has its own diverse roots,
peace
Trilairian
11-17-05, 12:26 PM
So you thought, but just like the Christians here you are wrong as I've already demonstrated here. Buddha takes many mythological characteristics from Horus.
Trilairian
11-17-05, 12:29 PM
Least I don't fail at debate like u do man. You don't even respond to all of the things that tear your dim-witted dogmas down. And you don't even hold them up under critisism and scrutiny.
You establish yourself in hear-say, without fact.
You can't provide a link or reference to a book you say exists...
And I feel like I'm surrounded by RETARDS because I'm the only one that is pointing out there is no BOOK OF VIVIFYING THE SOUL FOREVER, available. And i'm the only one actually looking into your claims.
I tell you it's nowhere to be found for research, not on amazon or on Ebay, or google books. And you respond with--- your typical manurer. You're utterly pathetic and anyone that believes you is blind as well. Blind leading the blind, congratulations because you're all retarded. The way people accept your posts without looking into them is worse that people blindly believing in the bible, because at least the bible is a record.
Jesus being born in Bethlehem is still held in a firm, published, circulated and available text for research. Horus born in Annu is--- established and founded on modern deceit.
And you other people that are reading this thread, that disagree with Trilairian, but aren't looking into his claims; Look up the book, you won't find it. And put him on the spot for being a fraud, because unless more people point it out to him, he won't realize what's going on.Yelling and screeming your false assumptions does not constitute a valid arguement. Why are you so scared of learning the truth? Do you have no faith?
Yelling and screeming your false assumptions does not constitute a valid arguement. Why are you so scared of learning the truth? Do you have no faith?
False assumptions? Do you even listen to yourself? If you did, I think you would be incapable of seeing how marvelously stupid you sound right now.
I'm struck in awe and amazement, you are in fact a monument of your own shame.
I'm just waiting for other people to respond, and do some research, so you will see I'm not the only one pointing out the obvious.
Trilairian
11-17-05, 02:33 PM
False assumptions? Do you even listen to yourself? If you did, I think you would be incapable of seeing how marvelously stupid you sound right now.
I'm struck in awe and amazement, you are in fact a monument of your own shame.
I'm just waiting for other people to respond, and do some research, so you will see I'm not the only one pointing out the obvious.
You still have no valid argument. After all this time you still haven't done any research. I do the research. I present the results to you. You claim I'm lieing without even looking it up. Saying the book doesn't exist really doesn't even make sence. Do you really want to make the crackpot claim that the book of the dead doesn't exist, or just that section, the book of vivifying the soul forever? Do you even have any idea what you are claiming?
Medicine*Woman
11-17-05, 02:58 PM
Well I'm a scholar! And I say he lived!
*************
M*W: You're no scholar. Your posts are clearly evident of that. You're also very childish and you don't belong on a science forum.
You still have no valid argument.
Wrong.
You have no valid claims. Most importanly no valid source.
After all this time you still haven't done any research.
Wrong.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/index.htm
There is a link to the Book of the Dead, you've never read a thing from the Book of Vivifying the Soul---EVER, lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
info on horus
http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm
oh this blows you out of the water. Hitler-Horus
I've done more research than everyone combined--while you've managed to keep talking out your :confused:
I do the research.
Wrong.
No you don't obviously because you can't provide any information on where one can find these Books you claim have all this info on horus. You did however manage to link us and spam us with all the contents of this page;
http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm
Which also has no sources for their information.
So that's not any of your own research, that's you copy/pasting the info.
I present the results to you.
Wrong.
You Copy/paste = Lazy
Facts/history = Results
You presented another website's views. Results of what?
You claim I'm lieing without even looking it up.
Wrong.
Did you overlook this post of mine??
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever can't be found anywhere not even amazon.com, or ebay.
I googled it. I went to Ebay, I went to Amazon, I went to Wikipedia, I went and searched the Book of the Dead.
Saying the book doesn't exist really doesn't even make sence.
Wrong.
It's the results of my research. Maybe if you had actually done some research yourself and not copy/paste someone elses, you would find yourself in the same boat, unable to locate information on The book of Vivifying the Dead Forever.
Do you really want to make the crackpot claim that the book of the dead doesn't exist, or just that section, the book of vivifying the soul forever?
Wrong. I never said the Book of the Dead doesn't exist. To refresh your memory these are the words I said..
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever---
Ok so first of all, it's nowhere to be found and it is only spoken of.
(Everyone go look for it, first to find it and reference it gets a cookie)
Interesting that the bible is so easlily and readily at hand for reference but your sources are ..................nowhere to be found.
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever can't be found anywhere not even amazon.com, or ebay.
You can't provide a link or reference to a book you say exists...
And I feel like I'm surrounded by RETARDS because I'm the only one that is pointing out there is no BOOK OF VIVIFYING THE SOUL FOREVER, available. And i'm the only one actually looking into your claims.
I tell you it's nowhere to be found for research, not on amazon or on Ebay, or google books. And you respond with--- your typical manurer. You're utterly pathetic and anyone that believes you is blind as well. Blind leading the blind, congratulations because you're all retarded. The way people accept your posts without looking into them is worse that people blindly believing in the bible, because at least the bible is a record.
Do you even have any idea what you are claiming?
yea, you're dumb. And your posting privileges should be revoked.
You should question what you're "claiming".
*************
M*W: You're no scholar. Your posts are clearly evident of that. You're also very childish and you don't belong on a science forum.
Step in line MW, you'll get your turn. I've resorted to cannibalism and I'm eating Tril alive :D
Read into his "sources" btw. You will realize he is the one without facts and doesn't belong in the Science forum..
Plus ... :confused: -- you havn't even done any research or provided any information so get off bandwagin pls.
All gods have common origin - the mind of man.
I'm not making stuff up and these aren't lies. You are doing mental gymnastics again. The anchient text is
Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever
written 3000 BC
wherein Horus is born in Annu. Google search it, and next time look it up yourself.
Here is the best info I have encountered so far on the purported Book...
http://www.africawithin.com/massey/gml1_soul.htm
The text of the 130th chapter of the "Book of the Dead" is said to have been discovered or re-discovered, in the reign of Housapti, the fifth king of the first dynasty, who lived more than 6000 years ago. At that time certain portions of the sacred books were found as antiquities, of which the very tradition had been lost. And this is the chapter of "Vivifying the soul for ever." The Egyptians were accustomed to set up two different images with the dead body in the tomb. One of these is the Shebti, or duplicative figure. This was one of their types of transformation; it represented the duplication of the mummy for another life, called that of the Second Breath. The other image was named the Ka, or second self.
Notice the text:
"is said to have been discovered or re-discovered"
Note also
"discovered or re-discovered, in the reign of Housapti, the fifth king of the first dynasty, who lived more than 6000 years ago."
The book you say is from 3rd Millenium BC. Above info contradicts you...
As the 130th Chapter of the Book of the Dead...Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever---I've not found a readable or published text. Anyone ??
So the Bible has Different "Books"
Like the Book of Matthew. Where it says
Matt. 2: 1
"NOW when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,"
BibleGateway.com
www.bible.com
www.onlinebible.net
There are a few sites where you can look it up for yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Matthew
Says--
"Date of Gospel
There is little in the gospel itself to indicate the date of its composition. Some conservative scholars argue that it was written before the destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 24), probably between the years A.D. 60 and 65, but others would date it in the 70s, even as late as A.D. 85.
In regards to most recent scholarship John Wenham is considered to be one of the more notable defenders of an early date for the gospel of Matthew. In addition, Carsten Peter Thiede in Eyewitness to Jesus, argued for the redating the Magdalen papyrus and the Gospel of Matthew to before A.D. 70. His writings have been hotly contested."
Still waiting for your Text of where this idea was stolen from Horus.
VitalOne
11-17-05, 07:43 PM
*************
M*W: You are wrong. Scholars believe Josephus was a forgery. You're the one who needs to at least read the latest biblical research. There are a significant number of christian scholars out there today who doubt the authenticity of Jesus's virgin birth, his death on the cross, his resurrection and the trinity. There are certainly many more non-christian biblical scholars and archeologists who deny his existence.
Peter, Paul and John the Baptist, Abraham and Moses, are considered by many biblical scholars to be figurative personages. Please visit your local library or bookstore before you make anymore assinine comments.
You are right about that, except modern Theologians still believe that Jesus existed.
Source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm
"Present-day theologians: The assertion that Jesus is not a historical figure or that he did not live in the early 1st century CE is held by a small number of academics."
The Josephus reference may well be a forgery, but there is still enough evidence that suggests that Jesus existed. The reason that not every historian at the time recorded him is because he was not very famous or well known at the time, not a king or anything, but just a leader of a small group.
The Enyclopedia of Brittanica states:
"These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries"
Also, other texts like early Jewish scriptures mention Jesus.
Professor Robert Van Voorst asks why, “if Christians invented the historical Jesus around the year 100, no pagans and Jews who opposed Christianity denied Jesus’ historicity or even questioned it.” (The Study of Jesus Outside the New Testament, page 15).
Still the fact remains, the majority of all scholars today believe that Jesus factually existed
The majority of all scholars seem to agree that Jesus was an actual man from which Christianity originates from.
VitalOne
11-17-05, 07:49 PM
Nope.
Yep, read my above post.
Medicine*Woman
11-17-05, 08:04 PM
Step in line MW, you'll get your turn. I've resorted to cannibalism and I'm eating Tril alive :D
Read into his "sources" btw. You will realize he is the one without facts and doesn't belong in the Science forum..
Plus ... :confused: -- you havn't even done any research or provided any information so get off bandwagin pls.
*************
M*W: I've been around sciforums for four years, and I have done a lot of research on the subjects discussed herein. Since you're relative newbie here, you wouldn't know the research I've done, but it disagrees with everything you post.
*************
M*W: I've been around sciforums for four years, and I have done a lot of research on the subjects discussed herein. Since you're relative newbie here, you wouldn't know the research I've done, but it disagrees with everything you post.
hahahahahaahaaaaaaa
That's great. You want to be argumentive, but you don't want to be wrong. Help Trilairian out atleast buy citing his info about Horus being born in the House of Bread...
I've not posted anything but simple facts. I havn't EVEN asked you to believe in Jesus. Just facts MW.
VitalOne
11-17-05, 08:23 PM
This is pretty funny, people so biased against Christianity resort to distorting their logic by concluding that Jesus hadn't even existed.
Imagine if a Conservative Christian group had concluded that Darwin had never existed and was simply made up by proponents of Christianity. Doesn't that sound laughable? It's the same biased mentality.
Here's the FACT, Jews and other proponents against Christianity never questioned that Jesus existed. Now if Jesus was really a myth, created by the Church, would not these proponents against Christianity at the time of the creation of the Jesus myth say even once that Jesus never existed? Remember, these are people against Christianity at the time, why did they not even once question that Jesus existed? Use your natural logic, it doesn't make sense.
Hey guys, maybe the Holocaust is also a myth, and never happened too :rolleyes:
Trilairian
11-17-05, 11:04 PM
hahahahahaahaaaaaaa
That's great. You want to be argumentive, but you don't want to be wrong. Help Trilairian out atleast buy citing his info about Horus being born in the House of Bread...
I've not posted anything but simple facts. I havn't EVEN asked you to believe in Jesus. Just facts MW.
I already cited it. You are just to scared to look it up.
Trilairian
11-17-05, 11:11 PM
You are right about that, except modern Theologians still believe that Jesus existed.
Source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm
...The majority of all scholars seem to agree that Jesus was an actual man from which Christianity originates from.
That isn't what I've found. I am telling to you results. The results are that very few religion historians acept his historical existence because of the lack of historical evidence for it and because of all he was imbued with from Horus etc. The extent of that leaves you with two choices. One the new testament Jesus is mythological. Two the Egyptian Horus religion was correct and prophetic. I've already argued against the latter. So which of the two do you want?
I already cited it. You are just to scared to look it up.
Why do you even post now? You just trying to have the last word or something when the rest of your stance has been destroyed?
You need to read all of the thread. You are missing a myriad of details. Basically you've no reason to even post at this time, you just make yourself look more and more unprepared to back up what you write.
Trilairian
11-18-05, 02:07 PM
Why do you even post now? You just trying to have the last word or something when the rest of your stance has been destroyed?
You need to read all of the thread. You are missing a myriad of details. Basically you've no reason to even post at this time, you just make yourself look more and more unprepared to back up what you write.Why are you talking to yourself?
VitalOne
11-18-05, 03:36 PM
That isn't what I've found. I am telling to you results. The results are that very few religion historians acept his historical existence because of the lack of historical evidence for it and because of all he was imbued with from Horus etc. The extent of that leaves you with two choices. One the new testament Jesus is mythological. Two the Egyptian Horus religion was correct and prophetic. I've already argued against the latter. So which of the two do you want?
What do I want? I want Evidence. Where is your evidence? I can't just take your word for it, give me an actual reliable source that says that the majority of all historians believe that Jesus was mythological.
I cited an Encylopedia, professors, and other sources. You have no source. You seem to be in denial.
"The vast majority of historians and theologians have always believed in the reality of Jesus' life. The skeptical view ..."has always been held by a small minority of investigators, usually 'outsiders'." (i.e. non-theologians)."
Trilairian
11-18-05, 04:15 PM
What do I want? I want Evidence. Where is your evidence? I can't just take your word for it, give me an actual reliable source that says that the majority of all historians believe that Jesus was mythological.
I cited an Encylopedia, professors, and other sources. You have no source. You seem to be in denial.
"The vast majority of historians and theologians have always believed in the reality of Jesus' life. The skeptical view ..."has always been held by a small minority of investigators, usually 'outsiders'." (i.e. non-theologians)."
Why are you making stuff up? I have given resources for each one asked of me and several items more. You have made no such resource. You are making the claim that the majority of historians beleive and I am saying that is not what I am finding. You have given no resource to any kind of poll verifying your emotionally biased claim. Anyway, since you are making the rediculous claim that you have a resource demonstrating such a poll I would like to see it. The site you pointed to doesn't count because it has no such poll, merely an emotionally biased author claiming what he wants to believe as a Christian. Now I am sure you are going to read more in to what I am saying than I am. You like to think most people think as you do and those who don't must be completely opposite and evil. So you will of course presume that I am saying that there wasn't a historical Yeshua. I am not saying that. I am saying that the biblical Jesus gets his characteristics from Horus whether or not there was a Historical person Yeshua. I am saying that if there was such a Yeshua it looks like he set himself up as Horus. I am saying that I do not find that the majority of Historians think there was a Historical Yeshua. I am saying you Christians are not a majority in the world at all !
What do I want? I want Evidence. Where is your evidence? I can't just take your word for it, give me an actual reliable source that says that the majority of all historians believe that Jesus was mythological.
I cited an Encylopedia, professors, and other sources. You have no source. You seem to be in denial.
Tril, Read that a few times.. maybe it will sink in. Hablas ingles o que?
I am saying you Christians are not a majority in the world at all !
Take note, this is how you make a source---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion <----- source. A link.
"Present day religious adherence and trends
Christianity is the religion with the largest number of professed adherents, followed by Islam and Hinduism. These statistics show the number of professed adherents of the major world religions. In addition, approximately one billion people do not profess any belief in a religion. These figures are necessarily approximate."
Christianity: 1.9 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 1 billion
Buddhism: 400 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Primal-Indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Bahá'í: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Sant Mat / Surat Shabd Yoga : 2 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Unification Movement: 1.5 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafari movement: 600 thousand
Trilairian
11-18-05, 04:34 PM
Take note, this is how you make a source---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion <----- source. A link.
"Present day religious adherence and trends
Christianity is the religion with the largest number of professed adherents, followed by Islam and Hinduism. These statistics show the number of professed adherents of the major world religions. In addition, approximately one billion people do not profess any belief in a religion. These figures are necessarily approximate."
Christianity: 1.9 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 1 billion
Buddhism: 400 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Primal-Indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Bahá'í: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Sant Mat / Surat Shabd Yoga : 2 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Unification Movement: 1.5 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafari movement: 600 thousand
1. Stop yelling.
2. learn math
1.9 bill out of 5+ bill in the world is not a majority.
And I don't even believe the 1.9 bill number either.
Increasing the font size is to show u. Where did I say they were the world majority?
If you look at the context of comparison, you would see, the other religions listed. So my reply must have been --- yes follow reason --- in relation to other religions.
First I have to teach you how to source, now I have to teach you reading comprehension?
VitalOne
11-18-05, 08:43 PM
Why are you making stuff up? I have given resources for each one asked of me and several items more. You have made no such resource. You are making the claim that the majority of historians beleive and I am saying that is not what I am finding. You have given no resource to any kind of pole verifying your emotionally biased claim. Anyway, since you are making the rediculous claim that you have a resource demonstrating such a pole I would like to see it. The site you pointed to doesn't count because it has no such pole, merely an emotionally biased author claiming what he wants to believe as a Christian. Now I am sure you are going to read more in to what I am saying than I am. You like to think most people think as you do and those who don't must be completely opposite and evil. So you will of course presume that I am saying that there wasn't a historical Yeshua. I am not saying that. I am saying that the biblical Jesus gets his characteristics from Horus whether or not there was a Historical person Yeshua. I am saying that if there was such a Yeshua it looks like he set himself up as Horus. I am saying that I do not find that the majority of Historians think there was a Historical Yeshua. I am saying you Christians are not a majority in the world at all !
Read my previous posts, they have sources.
The religious tolerance site isn't biased - it's the same site that says that places with organic atheism are the best places to live. Where do you get the "emotional biased author" claim from? It also has both sides.
Also why do make so many oppositions about me. I'm not Christian. I don't think people who are the complete opposite are evil.
I think Jesus has a history and myth. Actually, you can find many similarities between Jesus, Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, etc...People just search for similarities and find a few, then they disregard all of the other countless differences. Also these so called similarities are vague and biased, and often have the words "could be interpreted", "some considered", etc...in their explanations.
However theologians still believe that Jesus was a completely separate person. I already stated previously that Theologians may not agree on the Biblical story.
Trilairian
11-19-05, 04:07 PM
Increasing the font size is to show u. Where did I say they were the world majority?
You said it by posting it to assert the *majority* supported the historosity of Jesus.
Trilairian
11-19-05, 04:08 PM
Read my previous posts, they have sources.
No, they have no such poll.
The religious tolerance site isn't biased - it's the same site that says that places with organic atheism are the best places to live.
Yes it is. You've been duped. I cut the rest of your invalid arguement.
VitalOne
11-19-05, 05:04 PM
No, they have no such pole.
Yes it is. You've been duped. I cut the rest of your invalid arguement.
Yes, I do, the sources are religoustolerance.org, Wikipedia, and the Encylopedia of Brittanica, and how have i been duped? Because you've lost the argument completely?
The religious tolerance site isn't biased at all. Explain how it's biased if it states that places with organic atheism are the best places to live.
You said it by posting it to assert the *majority* supported the historosity of Jesus.
I posted it to show you how many people believed in Christ.
VitalOne
11-19-05, 09:56 PM
"A connection between Jesus and Horus-Osiris is frequently raised by critics of the historicity of Jesus. Superficially, the death and resurrection of Horus-Osiris, and Horus' nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself, appear to be a template for the idea that this occurred in Jesus. However, there is much more to both deities than this, and so such basic comparisons are not terribly persuasive to most academics..... Indeed, according to a few more radical scholars, Jesus was copied from Horus wholesale, and made into a Jewish teacher." - Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Son_of_Osiris
You've just been completely debunked....haha...still trapped in denial?
Trilairian
11-19-05, 11:37 PM
Yes, I do, the sources are religoustolerance.org, Wikipedia, and the Encylopedia of Brittanica, and how have i been duped? Because you've lost the argument completely?
The religious tolerance site isn't biased at all. Explain how it's biased if it states that places with organic atheism are the best places to live.
You have been duped. You have zero sources. Not a single one has any such poll. Show me the poll. Where is the poll? There is no such poll. Ever see such a poll? No, no poll? Get it?
Trilairian
11-19-05, 11:39 PM
"A connection between Jesus and Horus-Osiris is frequently raised by critics of the historicity of Jesus. Superficially, the death and resurrection of Horus-Osiris, and Horus' nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself, appear to be a template for the idea that this occurred in Jesus. However, there is much more to both deities than this, and so such basic comparisons are not terribly persuasive to most academics..... Indeed, according to a few more radical scholars, Jesus was copied from Horus wholesale, and made into a Jewish teacher." - Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Son_of_Osiris
You've just been completely debunked....haha...still trapped in denial?
You are in denial. Wiki is not the word of God. You have already been proven wrong. You are the one with the religion which I debunked.
Medicine*Woman
11-19-05, 11:54 PM
I posted it to show you how many people believed in Christ.
*************
M*W: Is there anyone out there who still believes in Jesus Christ? Com'on, this is the 21st century! Jesus doesn't exist in the modern mind. Give it up!
VitalOne
11-20-05, 12:03 AM
You have been duped. You have zero sources. Not a single one has any such pole. Show me the pole. Where is the pole? There is no such pole. Ever see such a pole? No, no pole? Get it?
I've already pointed many many sources.
You are in denial. Wiki is not the word of God. You have already been proven wrong. You are the one with the religion which I debunked.
Man, you truly are in denial. Anything contrary to Horus being Jesus is false. Your argument has now become "Wiki is not the word of God", how unnaturally pathetic.
I've given you sources, what more do you want?
I'm sure that if I find many other credible sources that clearly state most theologians agree Jesus historically existed, you will just say that it is biased or not the word of God, how ignorant can a person be.
c7ityi_
11-20-05, 12:48 PM
Jesus and Horus both exist and they are the same thing. They are the creative principle governing the universe, and this principle has also been born in human form. It can be called self or mind.
Trilairian
11-20-05, 04:37 PM
I've already pointed many many sources.
No you haven't even provided one. Not one single poll.
I cut your repetition of your same old lies.
VitalOne
11-20-05, 09:28 PM
No you haven't even provided one. Not one single pole.
I cut your repetition of your same old lies.
What's wrong with you? You need it to be put in terms that even you can understand?
"A connection between Jesus and Horus-Osiris is frequently raised by critics of the historicity of Jesus. Superficially, the death and resurrection of Horus-Osiris, and Horus' nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself, appear to be a template for the idea that this occurred in Jesus. However, there is much more to both deities than this, and so such basic comparisons are not terribly persuasive to most academics" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Horus_and_Jesus
"Present-day theologians: The assertion that Jesus is not a historical figure or that he did not live in the early 1st century CE is held by a small number of academics." - http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm
"These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries." - The Encylopedia of Brittianica (Article on "Jesus", 1990)
"Some writers may toy with the fancy of a 'Christ-myth,' but they do not doso on the ground of historical evidence. The historicity of Christ is asaxiomatic for an unbiased historian as the historicity of Julius Caesar. It is not historians who propagate the 'Christ-myth' theories."
"Wells [b]claim of a mythical Jesus has received no support and for the most part little attention from historians and theologians." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.A._Wells
"No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus" - [Otto Betz, What do We Know about Jesus?, SCM Press, page 9]
There, you've got all the sources, and everything with such a pole, ofcourse your argument will now turn into "this is not the word of God".
Ok next. Now it's time to debunk your source. I'm going to expose the biased in your source - http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm:
That web site makes this comparison:
Egypt - The paradise of the pole-star
Christian - The Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the sun nor the moon=the pole-star.
What the Bible actually says:
"And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof [is] the Lamb." - Rev. 21:23
There is NO INDICATION that the Holy City is lighted by the pole-star. This exposes the biased of this author. The author purposely tries to find similarities even if they don't fit in at all. There you go, you've just been completely debunked.
Just give it up. Even many atheists and proponents of Christianity agree that Jesus historically existed in some way. You and Medicine Woman are in denial of the facts.
Trilairian
11-20-05, 09:55 PM
What's wrong with you? You need it to be put in terms that even you can understand?...
And yet you still have not one single source, no, no poll.
You give it up and don't come back here with such outlandish claims about the majority opinion until you find at least one single poll.
VitalOne
11-20-05, 10:01 PM
And yet you still have not one single source, no, no pole.
You give it up and don't come back here with such outlandish claims about the majority opinion until you find at least one single pole.
I have quoted many many sources, and everyone reading the post can clearly see and read them.
I wonder why you haven't responded to any of the quotes?
I wonder why you haven't responded to me debunking your source?
Actually, you are the one making the outlandish claim. There are barely any historians with you. The idea that Jesus is a myth is just like the idea that aliens built the pyramids, they have no real support from most historians (or archaeologists).
Trilairian
11-20-05, 10:04 PM
I have quoted many many sources, and everyone reading the post can clearly see and read them....
No you still have not quoted one single source, no not a single poll. You have convinced me that you are insane making outragous claims claiming you have a poll, a source, and never having provided it you keep claiming that you have. Get lost.
VitalOne
11-20-05, 10:11 PM
No you still have not quoted one single source, no not a single pole. You have convinced me that you are insane making outragous claims claiming you have a pole, a source, and never having provided it you keep claiming that you have. Get lost.
What constitutes to be a source or pole to you?
Trilairian
11-21-05, 05:55 AM
What constitutes to be a source or pole to you?
A poll is a survey of a sample group used to make an estamate of percentages within a population. Without one all you have is an opinion, and a mere opinion without a poll whether yours or an encyclopedia author's is not a valid source for percentages within a population.
*************
M*W: Is there anyone out there who still believes in Jesus Christ? Com'on, this is the 21st century! Jesus doesn't exist in the modern mind. Give it up!
Tril needs to read this as well,
Why do you always post with Criticism and no information or sources? You've chimed in on this whole entire discussion, but yet you prove no asset to your alliance. If you really cared about wether Christ existed or not you would start providing some information supporting your views. Otherwise you're just pure spam at this point.
You really need to step out of your bubble and listen to yourself here. You're just speaking out of opinionated fervor and zeal, but you're views hold no fact or consequence to this discussion unless you are trying to convince people of your ideas upon faith alone.
So quit pointing the finger of religious intolerance, because until you provide some fact behind what you're talking about I will conlude that you're talking wholly out of your faith alone in your religious ideals.
VitalOne
11-21-05, 03:38 PM
A poll is a survey of a sample group used to make an estamate of percentages within a population. Without one all you have is an opinion, and a mere opinion without a poll whether yours or an encyclopedia author's is not a valid source for percentages within a population.
No such poll is neccessary, none that can be found. Asking for one is trivial. Encyclopedias are usually considered great sources.
This is like a person trying to prove that the Earth is flat, I say that the majority of scientists agree the Earth is round and quote many sources and then you say where is there such a poll that says this? Such trivial nonsense.
The Sources I gave you say that the majority of theologians, historians, and scholars agree that Jesus historically existed (and myth is probably tied to him). Ofcourse, you will continue to ride your wave of delusion holding your faith that most historians believe that Jesus didn't exist historically, not believing anything no matter what the source is until you see a poll. You even resort to such tactics as "Wiki is not god", "that site is biased" type of arguments.
Medicine*Woman
11-21-05, 11:50 PM
Tril needs to read this as well,
Why do you always post with Criticism and no information or sources? You've chimed in on this whole entire discussion, but yet you prove no asset to your alliance. If you really cared about wether Christ existed or not you would start providing some information supporting your views. Otherwise you're just pure spam at this point.
You really need to step out of your bubble and listen to yourself here. You're just speaking out of opinionated fervor and zeal, but you're views hold no fact or consequence to this discussion unless you are trying to convince people of your ideas upon faith alone.
So quit pointing the finger of religious intolerance, because until you provide some fact behind what you're talking about I will conlude that you're talking wholly out of your faith alone in your religious ideals.
*************
M*W: You haven't been on this forum long enough to read my sources, and you are in no position to determine who/what my alliances are. It sounds as if you watch too much reality TV.
The christ-messeh figure was written about in several cultures but never actually existed. You must have me confused with somebody who gives a damn. I would never "point my finger at religious intolerance." Until you go back and read my sources, you are in no position to comment. What you may "conclude" from not reading my sources is nothing but your usual mindless drivel.
Trilairian
11-22-05, 12:31 AM
Tril needs to read this as well,
Why do you always post with Criticism and no information or sources?
Why are you lieing?
Trilairian
11-22-05, 12:32 AM
No such poll is neccessary,
Yes it is.
none that can be found....
Then you have no valid arguement.
*************
M*W: You haven't been on this forum long enough to read my sources, and you are in no position to determine who/what my alliances are. It sounds as if you watch too much reality TV.
The christ-messeh figure was written about in several cultures but never actually existed. You must have me confused with somebody who gives a damn. I would never "point my finger at religious intolerance." Until you go back and read my sources, you are in no position to comment. What you may "conclude" from not reading my sources is nothing but your usual mindless drivel.
I'm talking about this thread doofus. Now i gotta go research your posts because u talk on a thread, but u source no information?
oooo that's great u'v done research but it doesn't matter to anyone that reads this thread, gratz on another retarded post.
Why are you lieing?
Now we're just playing who can have the last word because VitalOne / Nisus blew your views out the water..
by the time we're done bickering with you now i'll have 10k posts and MW can stfu.
Trilairian
11-22-05, 10:55 AM
Now we're just playing who can have the last word because VitalOne / Nisus blew your views out the water..
by the time we're done bickering with you now i'll have 10k posts and MW can stfu.
Cussing at me is not a valid argument. No one has blown my views out of the water. I have disproven your religion. You are just made because I did.
Why it doesn't matter what I say, it's just that I say something, because you'll just come back with the same old crap you replied to 99% of the thread, and have no evidence or proof and we'll just keep going back and forth.
Basically I can cuss, spit, yell, take shots at you because you aren't going to become any more intelligent. You aren't going to support your claims any better, every opportunity you have to post you just look more and more foolish.
It's a power struggle and you're bouncing off of what I say.
Trilairian
11-22-05, 11:41 AM
Why it doesn't matter what I say, it's just that I say something, because you'll just come back with the same old crap you replied to 99% of the thread, and have no evidence or proof and we'll just keep going back and forth.
Basically I can cuss, spit, yell, take shots at you because you aren't going to become any more intelligent. You aren't going to support your claims any better, every opportunity you have to post you just look more and more foolish.
It's a power struggle and you're bouncing off of what I say.But I did prove it by the weight of evidence. All you've got is cussing me out as a rebuttle.
The only thing you continue to prove is how blind your mind is. I'm not going to take the time to show you disproofs because even when you are shown things, you still don't see =p.
Vital one and I have pointed out to you plainly over and over again why you are wrong.
You just can't accept the fact.
And you want the last word! You lost your hope in having the facts so now you're scraping for the last post! ~~~!~! muahaha
VitalOne
11-22-05, 05:16 PM
There is no point to me arguing anymore. Your argument has become if you cannot find a poll, that makes you 100% wrong. Oh yeah, according to you, information in Encyclopedias are purely opinions. You and Medicine Woman have lost the argument completely, there's no point in me replying to this topic anymore.
Medicine Woman clearly states that Jesus never existed but has nothing to say about my quoted sources. She just states things without any evidence to back it up. When a theist does that everyone jumps on their case.
You say you have a weight load of evidence, but I clearly debunked your source and pointed out the biased in it. It's no wonder that wikipedia says
"However, there is much more to both deities than this, and so such basic comparisons are not terribly persuasive to most academics" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Horus_and_Jesus
No one takes your BS seriously. But ofcourse, if I have Encyclopedias that say that, the Encyclopedias are just opinions.
Well I'm done with this debate, you've plainly lost. The fact is that the majority of scholars who may well believe that myth is tied to Jesus still uphold that Jesus was some type of historical figure who really existed.
Trilairian
11-23-05, 04:03 PM
The only thing you continue to prove is how blind your mind is....No, I proved you wrong. You are the one using your delusional heart rather than your analytical mind. Accept the fact and move on.
There is no point to me arguing anymore. That's right, you were proven wrong so don't.
Your argument has become if you cannot find a poll, that makes you 100% wrong. Oh yeah, according to you, information in Encyclopedias are purely opinions.
Who said you could miss quote me?
You and Medicine Woman have lost the argument completely, there's no point in me replying to this topic anymore.No, you lost the argument completely so there is no point in you replying to this topic anymore.
Medicine Woman clearly states that Jesus never existed but has nothing to say about my quoted sources.
You don't have any. There are no records of anyone contemporary to Jesus saying that they even heard of him. If you have any such source I would like to see it. As yet you have given none and in all the research I have done I have found none. The closest thing you have is the new testament written way after the alleged events by who knows who.
She just states things without any evidence to back it up. When a theist does that everyone jumps on their case.
The evidence is there, you just refuse to look at it.
You say you have a weight load of evidence, but I clearly debunked your source and pointed out the biased in it.
Sources, and you haven't debunked a single one of them. They debunked your religion.
It's no wonder that wikipedia says
"However, there is much more to both deities than this, and so such basic comparisons are not terribly persuasive to most academics" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#Horus_and_Jesus
Where is the poll? Without one that most statement is nothing more than the authors opinion. Wiki like the bible is not the word of God.
No one takes your BS seriously.
Don't lie you yourself. You even yourself take my valid argument which isn't BS very seriously otherwise we wouldn't still be arguing about this.
But ofcourse, if I have Encyclopedias that say that, the Encyclopedias are just opinions.
Sarcasm is not a valid argument. Don't twist what I said.
Well I'm done with this debate, you've plainly lost. The fact is that the majority of scholars who may well believe that myth is tied to Jesus still uphold that Jesus was some type of historical figure who really existed.
No, you lost and you still have provided no poll to validate that ridiculous statement. And I don't believe you are honest when you say you are done.
Well I'm done with this debate, you've plainly lost. The fact is that the majority of scholars who may well believe that myth is tied to Jesus still uphold that Jesus was some type of historical figure who really existed.
Thank you that is all I wanted to hear at the conclusion of this thread/poll. I could have said this myself, matter of fact I did in many ways...
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
(Matt. 18: 16)
Then they said they had sources ...
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses
(Matt. 26: 60)
My work here is also done.
Trilairian
11-23-05, 04:12 PM
Thank you that is all I wanted to hear at the conclusion of this thread/poll. I could have said this myself, matter of fact I did in many ways...
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
(Matt. 18: 16)
Then they said they had sources ...
But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses
(Matt. 26: 60)
My work here is also done.You were two false witnesses defying the truth presented to you from valid sources, yes I know.
Ahmed Osman
11-23-05, 07:17 PM
Yes my boy - the valid source is of course the good book (written by Ahmed Osman) -
it proofs anything anybody want to proof - it does not matter if it is true or not - just accept the proof..........
Trilairian
11-23-05, 08:05 PM
You should be banned for posting as someone else Nisus.
You should be banned for posting as someone else Nisus.
You should be banned for not taking your meds... what r u talking about?
o Crap forgot, happy thanksgiving!
Trilairian
11-24-05, 11:20 PM
You should be banned for not taking your meds... what r u talking about?
Thats slander, and not a valid arguement. You are just mad that I proved your religion wrong.
I'm talking about you reporting me dewd... but nm i see that you realized you were mistaken.
u don't know what my religion is rarrrr
beyondtimeandspace
11-25-05, 05:27 AM
I will refrain from answering the poll. I don't like either answer.
Trilairian
11-25-05, 09:46 AM
I'm talking about you reporting me dewd... but nm i see that you realized you were mistaken.
u don't know what my religion is rarrrr
I wasn't mistaken and I do know what your religion is.
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
the question would work better as:
Was Egyptian mythology, Buddha and Jesus insired by the 5000 year old Krishna/Hindu theology/philosophy?
or even better question: what difference can there be between Krishna, Buddha and Christ if they all believed/were the same thing: universal LOVE?
I wasn't mistaken and I do know what your religion is.
Like I said, go on believing what you want, it wouldn't be the first time you believe something wrong, and it's something you have grown acustomed to doing.
Trilairian
11-25-05, 02:13 PM
the question would work better as:
Was Egyptian mythology, Buddha and Jesus insired by the 5000 year old Krishna/Hindu theology/philosophy?
or even better question: what difference can there be between Krishna, Buddha and Christ if they all believed/were the same thing: universal LOVE?
No Harry was derived from Horus who predates 5000 years ago.
Would you quit talking about horus? You're starting to bore us. Lets just get to worshiping the old stegosaurus.
He's ancient, like millions of years old, older than everything you've ever been told. Does that make you angry, cause your argument can't hold?
We'll just keep having to tell you, and put it in bold.
You're wrong.
You've been wrong all along. And you can't get over it, so you're, posting on and on.
Then when you get torn asunder, you reply with the same old spit. And I'm obliged to inform you, you never had an argument.
That's right cause if you did, you'd stick to it, and quit actin like a hypocrit.
Medicine*Woman
11-25-05, 05:56 PM
Would you quit talking about horus? You're starting to bore us. Lets just get to worshiping the old stegosaurus.
He's ancient, like millions of years old, older than everything you've ever been told. Does that make you angry, cause your argument can't hold?
We'll just keep having to tell you, and put it in bold.
You're wrong.
You've been wrong all along. And you can't get over it, so you're, posting on and on.
Then when you get torn asunder, you reply with the same old spit. And I'm obliged to inform you, you never had an argument.
That's right cause if you did, you'd stick to it, and quit actin like a hypocrit.
*************
M*W: Please stop your inane rhyming. You don't know what you are talking about. Tri is more knowledgeable than you. You suck, and you're a fool. Shut the fuck up!
Ahmed Osman
11-25-05, 09:01 PM
Yes TryliarIan - Harry Potter is Horus Potter - inspired from egyptian mythology -
it will be so in my next book !!
Medicine*Woman
11-25-05, 09:05 PM
Are you really a woman?
*************
M*W: Why does it matter?
dgswilson
11-13-07, 08:59 AM
Jesus story: Yes. Buddha story: I was looking for historical references when I chanced upon your forum. If the facts were available concerning the lives of Jesus or Buddha there would be no forum debate. The fact is these are all opinions based on historical documents, that may or may not be true, and emotional attachments. It is necessary to remember that histories scribes had emotional motivations too. Just because something has been written doesn't make it factual. The numerous, repeated, astrological based story of Horus and Jesus, and all the others, leads me to think they are all from the same mythological origin. Buddha, on the other hand, in writings, is no different from and other guy who found out something about how life works. I kind of wanted to know what was written about him and by whom so I could think about it.
I don't know anything for a fact where the past is concerned. I am getting more comfortable with this as I go along. I guess I really don't believe anyone can give me a true factual rendition of any event. I can't get a factual story about what happened yesterday: I can get a lot of peoples take on it. People will lie, argue and even kill one another to defend an emotional position. The need to be right the hindrance to sane thinking. I listen a lot and practice meditation and hopefully will become something that is best for everything. It may become necessary, if we are to survive as a species, to let go of emotional based opinions. At the moment we have stories: Jesus stories, Buddha stories, God stories. No matter how much we want something to be real we simply don't know. This is why people argue and debate on and on. It will go away, things will change, debate will become tiresome and pointless: then we will do something else.
Michael
11-13-07, 07:21 PM
Welcome to Sciforums dgswilson - this is a really really old thread! 2005 I think!
:)
My opinion is Jesus was mythical and based on Egyptian myth stories - definitely.
Buddha probably lived and the religion of Buddhism is based on Hindu myth stories. I don't know if Egyptian or Hindu stories intertwined though? I don't think they did, but maybe. I mean Egypt had been around for a long time some Hindu stories (the older religion) may have made it's way to Egypt - but then back again?
Also, evidence suggests humans made a leap from SE Africa across the desert during a good session when things were wetter (aka it was possible to move north) to Egypt and settled then the desert returned and blocked more Africans from moving northward.
A second wave of people moved out from Africa directly to southern Arabia these people stayed along the coast and migrated to India.
Effectively setting up two peoples in a sense.
Arsalan
11-13-07, 10:36 PM
Islam tells us that many Prophets were sent to many people. Therefore in Islam Jesus and Buddha were both Prophets. From the inuits to the Abrogines, Prophets were sent. They were sent by the same God hence there are many similarities between them.
Michael
11-13-07, 11:21 PM
That is one theory - another theory as propose by the late Professor Joseph Campbell an expert in comparative mythology and comparative religion who spent his entire life studying the subject - well, he would suggest that the commonality of mythology, “elementary ideas” if you will, were and are a product from human psychology. The Masks of God (http://www.amazon.com/Masks-God-Occidental-Mythology/dp/0285636073/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195013553&sr=1-7) and The Hero with a Thousand Faces (http://www.amazon.com/Hero-Thousand-Faces-Commemorative-Bollingen/dp/0691119244/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195013553&sr=1-1)
The last of four volumes in but one set of many many books authored by Campbell is "The Way of Man" focuses on religion and philosophy as it developed after the Axial Age (c. 6th century BCE), in which the mythic imagery of previous eras was made consciously metaphorical, reinterpreted as referring to psycho-spiritual, not literal-historical, matters. This transition is evidenced in the East by Buddhism, Vedanta, and philosophical Taoism; and in the West by the Mystery Cults, Platonism and Gnosticism. I personally feel that these great idea's were crushed by literalistic Christians whose intolerant simplistic ideas, unfortunately for Muslims, were directly incorporated into Islam.
OR then again, perhaps Mohammad rode a winged fairy-magic creature and was indeed the "Last Prophet" OR maybe the Buddhist are correct and Jehovah and Allah are but one of many Gods and other beings stuck in the Karma Cycle destine to be reborn again OR then again maybe the Christians are correct and all us non-Christians will burn in Hell and Buddha was simply a philosopher and Mohammad was creature of Satan. Yes, all and any of the above could be correct.
BUT, if one were to step outside of their childhood conditioning for a moment and with an open mind read some of Professor Joseph's voluminous in depth studies of World myths - I think they'd side with Joseph in the end.
Arsalan
11-13-07, 11:58 PM
I also forgot to mention that the Holy Prophet of Islam was mentioned in the Bible and other books, including the Vedas. The books by Joseph sound interesting but how do they deal with the religion of the aborigines?
Michael
11-14-07, 09:26 PM
I also forgot to mention that the Holy Prophet of Islam was mentioned in the Bible While I'm not a Christian - I am curious as to where in the Bible you suppose this verse exists?
Secondly, you have no idea about the Bible. Do you know when and how the Bible was created? What the myth is based on? How the secrets are hidden in it?
On a side point the Bible, as is all religious literature from that time, was written in Gnostic tradition - it has many mathematical coded secrets - Gnosis so to speak. THESE were carefully kept secrets. The reason why they were so secret was so that when a new Poindexter popped up, like Mohammad, and claimed he was the "Last Prophet" (which happened ALL OF THE TIME – I personally see Mohammad as a composite – but regardless) this NEW Last Prophet would not be able to decode the mathematical riddles and hence could be know to be fraud.
The Qur'an, yes - that pinnacle of whatever, has NONE of the Gnosis – NONE of the KNOWLEDGE - of course it was ALL LOST. This was because Mohammad didn't understand the most basic of Gnosis. Hence, if you really didgive two craps about the Bible (which you seem to or why bother mentioning it?) then you'd realize that in the same breath as mentioning the Bible you have also condemned the Qur'an as fraud – and poorly plagiarized at that.
That is what you don't seem to get Arsalan.
but you really don't care about the Bible, that is not your programming. You simply mentioned it justify you indoctrination.
Am I right?
You will need to learn a hell of a lot more about early religious history before you can even have a basic understanding of what you just read.
But we both know that’s not going to happen. Right now as you read this with the left side of your brain the right side of your brain is making up some bullshit to justify all of the little beliefs that your parents and Imam's taught you to believe – you will live the rest of your life believing in a fairytale.
Sad but true,
Michael
[=Arsalan's right Brain]well I know that the Bible was corrupted and thatwhy Mohammad was sent and so those Gnositic secrets were just part of the corruption - taking them out was probably why Allah sent Mohammad. Yes that it!! Oh I feel so much better knowing the Qur'an is perfect... whatever that means... Oooo Ooooo don't think too much about that..[/Arsalan's right Brain]
Arsalan
11-19-07, 12:02 AM
Secondly, you have no idea about the Bible. Do you know when and how the Bible was created? What the myth is based on? How the secrets are hidden in it?
Enlighten me. Or are you going to cite Zeitgeist?
On a side point the Bible, as is all religious literature from that time, was written in Gnostic tradition - it has many mathematical coded secrets - Gnosis so to speak. THESE were carefully kept secrets. The reason why they were so secret was so that when a new Poindexter popped up, like Mohammad, and claimed he was the "Last Prophet" (which happened ALL OF THE TIME – I personally see Mohammad as a composite – but regardless) this NEW Last Prophet would not be able to decode the mathematical riddles and hence could be know to be fraud.
The Qur'an, yes - that pinnacle of whatever, has NONE of the Gnosis – NONE of the KNOWLEDGE - of course it was ALL LOST. This was because Mohammad didn't understand the most basic of Gnosis. Hence, if you really didgive two craps about the Bible (which you seem to or why bother mentioning it?) then you'd realize that in the same breath as mentioning the Bible you have also condemned the Qur'an as fraud – and poorly plagiarized at that.
Exactly what knowledge has been lost? What carefully kept secret that you seem to know about? The mathematical code for Nero? The mathematical code to determine the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus? Are you talking about some Gnostic teaching? Docetism? What gnosis has exactly been lost?
but you really don't care about the Bible, that is not your programming. You simply mentioned it justify you indoctrination.
Am I right?
Nope. Religious indoctrination doesn’t work.
But we both know that’s not going to happen. Right now as you read this with the left side of your brain the right side of your brain is making up some bullshit to justify all of the little beliefs that your parents and Imam's taught you to believe – you will live the rest of your life believing in a fairytale.
Haha! If only that were true. A fairytale is actually a pretty nice place to live. But, once again, you are wrong about me. The only religious education I got from my parents was the names of the Prophets, Caliphs and how to pray and how to read the Quran. That’s it. I wasn’t that much interested in my religion until I was being spat on in the street after 9/11. Then I started to read about and study my religion. So your assumption that somehow I am a robot who can only regurgitate what he has been told is once again, wrong. So please, drop the indoctrination crap, it just makes you look stupid.
[=Arsalan's right Brain]well I know that the Bible was corrupted and thatwhy Mohammad was sent and so those Gnositic secrets were just part of the corruption - taking them out was probably why Allah sent Mohammad. Yes that it!! Oh I feel so much better knowing the Qur'an is perfect... whatever that means... Oooo Ooooo don't think too much about that..[/Arsalan's right Brain]
How does this add to any discussion? To any mods reading this: this is obviously meant to insult me and to start some kind of flamewar. Oh well, a good and learned friend of mine once said that people who start to insult and swear lose the argument there and then.
Arsalan
11-19-07, 12:18 AM
Also, do you know about Jesus teaching the Buddhists and about his tomb?
Arsalan
11-19-07, 09:31 PM
And ofcourse the whole part about Muhammad in the Bible has been marked as preaching :)
Medicine*Woman
11-20-07, 05:55 PM
Also, do you know about Jesus teaching the Buddhists and about his tomb?
*************
M*W: Yes, I've seen pictures of said "tomb," but Jesus didn't exist, so he could not have travelled there. The whole thing was erected by missionaries, and there is absolutely no way Jesus could have done this.
I realize your Qur'an claims Jesus was a prophet, but whomever wrote the Qur'an probably had read verses of those ancient manuscripts. It's an understandable mistake. Further, christianity was not created by Jesus but by the people who believed in Jesus.
I can't remember the date of the tomb's construction, but I remember it to be long after the fictional Jesus was said to have been alive.
Michael
11-20-07, 07:11 PM
And ofcourse the whole part about Muhammad in the Bible has been marked as preaching :)Just list the verse its fine.
Michael
11-20-07, 07:14 PM
Are you talking about some Gnostic teaching?Yes Christianity was a Jewish Mystery religion.
Michael
11-20-07, 08:34 PM
I watched a little of the online move Zeitgeist. The movie mixes some facts with some fiction.
I don't know about you but when I read a Sumerian story in the Bible I pretty much think to myself, yup that's a Sumerian story plagiarized into the Bible.
On the other hand, a brainwashed Xian (or Muslim or Jew) would probably think (and have told me) that Satan traveled back in time, put a stone relief with Sumerian writing in the ground and then traveled back into the future to trick an archeologist who dug it up - into thinking that this clearly true Biblical story was really a Sumerian one - you see you have to know that Satan is a trickster...
Well Arsalan is Satan a time traveling trickster?
Hapsburg
11-21-07, 04:59 PM
Tell me what you think. Were Jesus and Buddha both inspired from egyptian mythology?
Nah.
Jesus was just a guy, leading a schismatic personality-based cult within the Jewish community. Judaism has its roots in Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, with influences from Egyptian henotheistic cults, but the guy himself was not inspired by any Horus-like attributes.
Horus, OTOH, was part of Egyptian mythology, and has parallels in local religious beliefs in surrounding regions. Since Egyptians are of the Semitic ethnolinguistic group, it's logical to assume that Egyptian mythology and other Semitic mythologies, i.e Babylonian and Sumerian, and Judean, are interconnected to some extent.
The Buddha was a real person, Siddhartha Gautama. Buddhism was based on Hinduism, an Indo-European religion- one of the oldest, in fact. It is in no way connected with Semitic religions in terms of mythology.
Take you vain words of all that is holy.
I do now know any man from the land of the forgotten.
The man who is not man, is the leader of man for god said.
God is the being you all know, god is the being I shall know.
The path is before you.
Let the people decide, people are ignorant, persons are intelligent.
The masses will decide our fate, but how to act? What to do?
As you do, so shall I, as I have done as I have walked.
As I've walked the gavel falls for sins upon sin the gavel falls.
THE TRUTH FINDS YOU
06-04-08, 05:10 AM
Hi I new here please forgive my poor English and my spelling is at times in need of help sorry to you all for this. I write this because I see a war going on about was Jesus inspired from Egyptian Mythology? I see some one have move up to character assassination just because some may be wrong well I guess I need to address the smart people the that can write with out feeling as if I am some how attack them. I am not here to tell any to stop what they want to do please feel free do what ever. But though of that want peace think about this it takes two to dance it takes or two to fight so Mr. Trilairian and Ms. Medicine*Woman and others that believe them it of no good to tell Mr. Nisus or others like him because what you see as truth is lies to him and he dose not want to see any thing else and that all they is to it I can see he a self made man and he find the truth but like my title said the truth finds you. please see the movie What the bleep do we know, In a nut shell we don’t know much and yet many people think they know but they wrong it takes very big person to say I know that I DONT KNOW that is were one starts to see truth coming at you full speed and some times it hurts and some people find the need to character assassination. To help this pain because they been lie to and it not fair and feel the need to us this. Mr. Trilairian and Ms. Medicine*Woman PLEASE believe me when I said I HAVE look at many things said about the bible and I BELIEVE you are right. The bible is the greatest story ever toll because it a rewrite a over used story by the Egyptians The hole bible can be find in Egyptian history the CROSS for one Jordon Maxwell can tell more. Please don’t waste you good time with people that already know the truth and want a fight because if he truly believes god he safe from people like us we go to hell. Yet some how Mr. Nisus knows he right and in away he is his; in his mind at less. THE TRUTH COMES TO YOU AND IF YOU’RE READY TO SEE IT YOU IT WILL SET YOU FREE. I AM FREE!!! GOOD DAY MY FRIENDS! YES YOU TO Mr. Nisus. We all have a good day.
THE TRUTH FINDS YOU
06-04-08, 05:16 AM
No your not and your opinion doesn't count.
Hi I want to tell I think your right but read this first I post it for all to see. Hi I new here please forgive my poor English and my spelling is at times in need of help sorry to you all for this. I write this because I see a war going on about was Jesus inspired from Egyptian Mythology? I see some one have move up to character assassination just because some may be wrong well I guess I need to address the smart people the that can write with out feeling as if I am some how attack them. I am not here to tell any to stop what they want to do please feel free do what ever. But though of that want peace think about this it takes two to dance it takes or two to fight so Mr. Trilairian and Ms. Medicine*Woman and others that believe them it of no good to tell Mr. Nisus or others like him because what you see as truth is lies to him and he dose not want to see any thing else and that all they is to it I can see he a self made man and he find the truth but like my title said the truth finds you. please see the movie What the bleep do we know, In a nut shell we don’t know much and yet many people think they know but they wrong it takes very big person to say I know that I DONT KNOW that is were one starts to see truth coming at you full speed and some times it hurts and some people find the need to character assassination. To help this pain because they been lie to and it not fair and feel the need to us this. Mr. Trilairian and Ms. Medicine*Woman PLEASE believe me when I said I HAVE look at many things said about the bible and I BELIEVE you are right. The bible is the greatest story ever toll because it a rewrite a over used story by the Egyptians The hole bible can be find in Egyptian history the CROSS for one Jordon Maxwell can tell more. Please don’t waste you good time with people that already know the truth and want a fight because if he truly believes god he safe from people like us we go to hell. Yet some how Mr. Nisus knows he right and in away he is his; in his mind at less. THE TRUTH COMES TO YOU AND IF YOU’RE READY TO SEE IT YOU IT WILL SET YOU FREE. I AM FREE!!! GOOD DAY MY FRIENDS! YES YOU TO Mr. Nisus. We all have a good day.
THE TRUTH FINDS YOU
06-04-08, 07:21 AM
*************
M*W: You're no scholar. Your posts are clearly evident of that. You're also very childish and you don't belong on a science forum.
Hi I do think you right but this Mr. Nisus I guess do need help in any way of any kind but more important you a lady that uses a name like Medicine Woman to man that feel your wrong that like a hit below the belt. Your lady that being around the block and Mr. Nisus sounds a very young man just look at the photo he used with a fire burning behind some one maybe him and then he said he wants peace but will destroy many or is talking about god how loves us all. Both of them love us but will destroy us. love like that we dont need the devil leave that to super being that knows all to make some up like that. WOW and still people fall in this mud trap and want us to follow them or we die. Mr. Nisus if I love you but you did some thing I dont like why would I want you dead but I could say I dont love you and want you _ _ _ _ but I am not and another thing the Medicine Woman could teach a thing or two about life growing up. Men need to be taught to grow up I know this is true I not as young as you. Yes Mr. Nisus She could teach me a thing or two this true because women even crazy women bring life in to this world so men do less talking and listen more you she maybe wrong but I am at best my best when I
listen or if I talk I said yes you might be right knowing she be wrong but dont tell her. Because my mother a women she let come into this world so were we but with out women not here that is for sure so kiss you thank you Mr. Nisus and thank the woman of your life for life before it to late. You might try saying your sorry to Ms. Medicine Woman for your childish talk so that the world can heal from your bad talking you do more home work to find if other truths can also find you.
THE TRUTH FINDS YOU
06-04-08, 07:30 AM
*************
M*W: You're no scholar. Your posts are clearly evident of that. You're also very childish and you don't belong on a science forum.
I watched a little of the online move Zeitgeist. The movie mixes some facts with some fiction.
I don't know about you but when I read a Sumerian story in the Bible I pretty much think to myself, yup that's a Sumerian story plagiarized into the Bible.
On the other hand, a brainwashed Xian (or Muslim or Jew) would probably think (and have told me) that Satan traveled back in time, put a stone relief with Sumerian writing in the ground and then traveled back into the future to trick an archeologist who dug it up - into thinking that this clearly true Biblical story was really a Sumerian one - you see you have to know that Satan is a trickster...
Well Arsalan is Satan a time traveling trickster?
Hi Michael can tell what fact are mix up? Facts are facts they dont get mix up
fiction gets mix up. Mixed up FACTS are fiction.:)
BlkMrkt
07-27-09, 10:15 PM
First off, sorry for gravedigging haha. Anyway. The big thing between Christianity and Buddhism: It matters if Jesus existed, because Christians have to worship and pray to him. The beauty of Buddhism and exactly why I practice it: It doesn't matter if the Supreme Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, existed or not. His teachings are still here. He isn't meant to be worshipped, which is greatly tweaked by the Mahayana school, particularly in the West. Buddha reached enlightenment, and passed on his teachings in the hopes of everyone becoming enlightened, and thus ending Samsara, the cycle of rebirth and suffering; all the while without the need to be worshipped or prayed to. It's also a fact that it's based on Hinduism. The funny thing is, nobody cares. The religious tolerance between Hinduism and Buddhism is absolutely beautiful. How many times will you see a Church and a Synagogue built side by side? Chances are very slim to none. However, there have been many cases where Hindu and Buddhist temples have been built side by side, in harmony. Anyways, I'm trailing. I'll end by saying this. The parallels between Jesus and Horus are copious. And I definitely think the story of Jesus is based upon Horus. The story of Buddha however, is a bit more believable, because he never claimed any ridiculous miracles, however there have been recent scientific miracles performed by Buddhists in deep meditation (staying alive for 10 days without food or water, all the while being documented round the clock by scientists). So, take that into consideration. It definitely matters if Jesus existed or not to Christians, because it's mandatory to worship him. Buddha, on the other hand, it's not that big of a deal if he did, because his teachings are still around, and he was never meant to be worshipped as a deity or prophet or God.
Kapyong
07-28-09, 03:47 AM
Gday,
Roman historians Tacitus, Suetonius, Julius Africanus, Thallus, Josephus, among others clearly describe that Jesus did indeed exist.
JOSEPHUS (c.96CE)
The famous Testamonium Flavianum (the T.F.) in the Antiquities of the Jews is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :
* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the devout Jew Josephus (who remained a Jew and refused to call anyone "messiah" in his book which was partly about how false messiahs kept leading Israel astray.),
* The T.F. was not mentioned by any of the early Church fathers who reviewed Josephus.
* Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present c.200CE.
* The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century.
* The other tiny passage in Josephus refers to Jesus, son of Damneus. The phrase "so-called Christ" may have been a later addition by a Christian who also mis-understood which Jesus was refered to.
An analysis of Josephus can be found here:
http://www.humanists.net/jesuspuzzle/supp10.htm
In short - this passage is possibly a total forgery (or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.)
But, yes,
it COULD just be actual evidence for Jesus - late, corrupt, controversial but just POSSIBLY real historical evidence.
TACITUS (c.112CE)
Roughly 80 years after the alleged events (and 40 years after the war) Tacitus allegedly wrote a (now) famous passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however:
* Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used.
* Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.)
* This passage is paraphrased by Sulpicius Severus in the 5th century without attributing it to Tacitus, and may have been inserted back into Tacitus from this work.
This evidence speaks AGAINST it being based on any Roman records -
but
merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time (c.f. Pliny.)
So,
this passage is NOT evidence for Jesus,
it's just evidence for 2nd century Christian stories about Jesus.
SUETONIUS (c.115CE)
Roughly 80-90 years after the alleged Gospel events, (about 45 years after the war) Suetonius refers to a "Chrestus" who stirred the Jews to trouble in Rome during Claudius' time, but:
* this "Chrestus" is a Greek name (from "useful"), and is also a mystic name for an initiate, it is not the same as "Christos"
* this Chrestus was apparently active in Rome, Jesus never was.
So,
this passage is not evidence for Jesus,
it's nothing to do with Jesus,
it's evidence for Christians grasping at straws.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/suetonius.html
THALLUS (date unknown)
We have NO certain evidence when Thallus lived or wrote, there are NONE of Thallus' works extant.
What we DO have is a 9th century reference by George Syncellus who quotes the 3rd century Julianus Africanus, who, speaking of the darkness at the crucifixion, wrote: "Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse".
But,
there is NO evidence Thallus made specific reference to Jesus or the Gospel events at all, as there WAS an eclipse in 29. This suggests he merely referred to a known eclipse, but that LATER Christians MIS-interpreted his comment to mean their darkness. (Also note the supposed reference to Thallus in Eusebius is a false reading.)
Richard Carrier the historian has a good page on Thallus:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/thallus.html
So,
Thallus is no evidence for Jesus at all,
merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.
Julius Aficanus?
He is from CENTURIES later !
None of your evidence stands up to scrutiny.
Kapyong
Michael
07-28-09, 08:31 AM
wow this is a zombie thread it keeps coming back to life :D Three times now. I suppose it shows its an interesting topic.
Gday,
JOSEPHUS (c.96CE)
The famous Testamonium Flavianum (the T.F.) in the Antiquities of the Jews is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :
* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the devout Jew Josephus (who remained a Jew and refused to call anyone "messiah" in his book which was partly about how false messiahs kept leading Israel astray.),
* The T.F. was not mentioned by any of the early Church fathers who reviewed Josephus.
* Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present c.200CE.
* The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century.
* The other tiny passage in Josephus refers to Jesus, son of Damneus. The phrase "so-called Christ" may have been a later addition by a Christian who also mis-understood which Jesus was refered to.
An analysis of Josephus can be found here:
http://www.humanists.net/jesuspuzzle/supp10.htm
In short - this passage is possibly a total forgery (or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.)
But, yes,
it COULD just be actual evidence for Jesus - late, corrupt, controversial but just POSSIBLY real historical evidence.
TACITUS (c.112CE)
Roughly 80 years after the alleged events (and 40 years after the war) Tacitus allegedly wrote a (now) famous passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however:
* Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used.
* Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.)
* This passage is paraphrased by Sulpicius Severus in the 5th century without attributing it to Tacitus, and may have been inserted back into Tacitus from this work.
This evidence speaks AGAINST it being based on any Roman records -
but
merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time (c.f. Pliny.)
So,
this passage is NOT evidence for Jesus,
it's just evidence for 2nd century Christian stories about Jesus.
SUETONIUS (c.115CE)
Roughly 80-90 years after the alleged Gospel events, (about 45 years after the war) Suetonius refers to a "Chrestus" who stirred the Jews to trouble in Rome during Claudius' time, but:
* this "Chrestus" is a Greek name (from "useful"), and is also a mystic name for an initiate, it is not the same as "Christos"
* this Chrestus was apparently active in Rome, Jesus never was.
So,
this passage is not evidence for Jesus,
it's nothing to do with Jesus,
it's evidence for Christians grasping at straws.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/suetonius.html
THALLUS (date unknown)
We have NO certain evidence when Thallus lived or wrote, there are NONE of Thallus' works extant.
What we DO have is a 9th century reference by George Syncellus who quotes the 3rd century Julianus Africanus, who, speaking of the darkness at the crucifixion, wrote: "Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse".
But,
there is NO evidence Thallus made specific reference to Jesus or the Gospel events at all, as there WAS an eclipse in 29. This suggests he merely referred to a known eclipse, but that LATER Christians MIS-interpreted his comment to mean their darkness. (Also note the supposed reference to Thallus in Eusebius is a false reading.)
Richard Carrier the historian has a good page on Thallus:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/thallus.html
So,
Thallus is no evidence for Jesus at all,
merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.
Julius Aficanus?
He is from CENTURIES later !
None of your evidence stands up to scrutiny.
Kapyong
How about Sinusitis? what did he have to say about this?
On a more serious note; i dont know what to say about Buddha but Horus...all we know is what people have recently made up.
Hapsburg
07-28-09, 09:01 PM
Horus...all we know is what people have recently made up.
Heh? No, we have quite a bit of information from Egyptian records: inscriptions, papyrus scrolls, writings by foreign observers and occupiers.
And in none of them is Horus portrayed as the messianic son of a virgin or any other nonsense spread by the Zeitgeist "movie".
Michael
07-28-09, 09:36 PM
Xianity didn't just spring out of the ground.
Page 75
"The Secret Lore of Egypt: its impact on the West",
Erik Hornung, Translated by David Lorton,
Cornell University Press, 2001, ISBN 0801438470
An amulet was found depicting Christ on one side and Shed (in the form of Horus) on the reverse.
The newer built on the older, what's so hard to get?
What I want to know is how many Jewish beliefs are based in Christianity. Which while this seems odd, most certainly did happen.
Now THAT is interesting.
An amulet was found depicting Christ on one side and Shed (in the form of Horus) on the reverse.
what amulet is that?
Heh? No, we have quite a bit of information from Egyptian records: inscriptions, papyrus scrolls, writings by foreign observers and occupiers.
And in none of them is Horus portrayed as the messianic son of a virgin or any other nonsense spread by the Zeitgeist "movie".
i agree that Zeitgeist is BS and merely entertainment that appeals to a specific segment of society. the thing that i have issues with is how much of what we do know, that is considered mainstream, is conjecture.
The buddha was just a guy so no, he isn't based on a god.
There are countless similarities because we aren't really that different from each other and primative societies all face pretty much the same issues.
The Horus(or more likely general Egyptian influences)/Jesus link is a greater possibility. Certainly the Jews were supposedly Eyptian slaves for a while and their kindom was right next to, or part of Egypt for hundreds of years so there is bound to be cross over influences.
It can be argued that they got their monotheism from Aten even.
Hapsburg
07-30-09, 03:18 AM
Even so, Judaism had been monotheistic for a good long while by the time Christianity came about. The influence of Atenism on Christianity itself is minimal.
Even so, Judaism had been monotheistic for a good long while by the time Christianity came about. The influence of Atenism on Christianity itself is minimal.
Only if you consider monotheism a minimal aspect of xtianity. Certainly they have trouble with the concept.
Hapsburg
07-30-09, 05:12 AM
Atenism's influence on Judaism is huge, yeah. But it's direct influence on Christianity is minimal; it mostly influences Christianity via Judaism.
In any case, Atenism being involved with Jewish monotheism doesn't indicate traditional Egyptian mythology influencing it. If anything, it means the complete opposite, since Atenism was entirely antithetical to Egyptian orthodoxy, intending to replace with with monist or monotheistic sun-worship.
sentrynox
08-02-09, 09:09 PM
Jesus, was associate with similar miracles to Horus (like walking on water).
Moise, was probably an important priest in Egypt and is believed to have been the son of the Pharaon. And a little before him, Nefertiti succeed installing the first monotheism religion, but was overpowers by the priest after a while and polytheism was installed once more. So Moise, flew with the Jews, on mount Sinai, to claim belief in one god! His name was derive from the god Dionysos (son of Zeus and also known as Zagreus outside Greece), who was also worship at mount Nyssa (today Sinai) so to call his "new god" Jehova-russi (or. Lao-nisi for again Dionisi.
For reference too, Osiris, Zagreus or Bacchus were born on mount Sinai which was called by the Egyptians Mount Nissa, the brazen serpent was a nis... And the month of Jewish passover is Nisan... Any similarities here you think?
To make things worst, the origin of Dionysos was from India and probably Sivaic or Buddhistical as Core and persophoneia was but the goddess Parasu-pani or Bhavani the patroness of the thugs called also Goree. Actually the whole story of Orpheus ring Indian in origin since the start, so it is also likely to derived from India...
There is a great deal of mythology surrounding Horus, some of it seems somewhat similar to the elements of the Jesus story. There are sites that pick on those particlulars and assert they are the same, but Horus is a lot more complex.
Did the Jesus myth writers borrow some of those elements? It seems likely but the similarities are not as exacting as some would suggest.
Is Jesus a myth? The inconsistencies and the direct contradictions in the gospel stories and the lateness of their writings, some decades after his aledged existence and the fact that there is no direct independent evidence from his time, suggest that he is mostly or entirely myth. Note that even today with our high tech audio/visual reporting capabilities we often get things wrong about events 50 years ago. The word of mouth reporting of some 2000 years ago, with a 50 years break, were likely to have been signficantly less reliable.
Atenism's influence on Judaism is huge, yeah. But it's direct influence on Christianity is minimal; it mostly influences Christianity via Judaism.
Fair enough.
In any case, Atenism being involved with Jewish monotheism doesn't indicate traditional Egyptian mythology influencing it.
Atenism's monotheistic aspect was antithetical, but all the rest of it had roots in the orthadoxy, even aten.
If Judaism managed to live in Egypt's shadow for what? Upwards of a thousand years? And didn't absorb anything, that would be amazing.
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