Clue Up Or Shut Up!

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Spadge, Jun 24, 1999.

  1. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    160
    Okay, Right! Let’s go straight for the jugular here. In my opinion, it is a fact that many sceptics or debunker knows little or nothing of the history and facts surrounding UFOs. I hasten to add that this does not apply to them all. Sceptics, if you want your views to be taken seriously then at least clue yourself up with the true facts.

    I am quite willing to listen to any well reasoned argument against the UFO mystery being real as long as that person knows something about the subject.

    My own view is that the UFO mystery is undoubtedly real. As for whether they are alien spacecraft or not is (as the sceptics always say) an entirely different question, but it is a possibilty that certainly has to be considered. I have seen it pointed out on this board that unexplainable things in the sky are not necessarily alien spacecraft. Quite right, but it is possible. THIS ET STUFF IS NOT STUPID as was claimed! It is a perfectly valid argument for any strange aeroform that exhibits abilities beyond the capability of human technology.

    It’s time for you ill informed sceptics to either clue up or shut up!

    Once again, apologies to all you knowledgable sceptics.




    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited June 24, 1999).]
     
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  3. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    High five, Spadge!

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
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  5. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    Thank you Lori!
     
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  7. Raebeth Registered Member

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    I agree Spadge. Though some tolerance must be given to us beginners who are learning as we go along.
     
  8. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, Raebeth..and surely we are all here to try and learn something. Let's face it, there is no such thing as an 'expert' in this subject.

    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited June 25, 1999).]
     
  9. H-kon Registered Senior Member

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    No one is an expert in any subject

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  10. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I could not agree more H-kon. But especially in this one!

    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 06, 1999).]
     
  11. Dave Registered Senior Member

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    Spadge,
    I think the only people that are stubbornly critical of this field are the ones who have not had an encounter. Be it Ultra-secret military crap like Project Aurora to Flying Saucer looking craft. Most people don't believe anything until they see it with their own eyes!

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    Get me Outa Here! </center>

    Ragards,
    Dave.

    [This message has been edited by Dave (edited July 06, 1999).]
     
  12. Blacktubby Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
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    SpadgeÕs little rant,
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    Okay, Right! Let's go straight for the jugular here. In my opinion, it is a fact that many sceptics or debunker knows little or nothing of the history and facts surrounding UFOs. I hasten to add that this does not apply to them all. Sceptics, if you want your views to be taken seriously then at least clue yourself up with the true facts.

    I am quite willing to listen to any well reasoned argument against the UFO mystery being real as long as that person knows something about the subject.

    My own view is that the UFO mystery is undoubtedly real. As for whether they are alien spacecraft or not is (as the sceptics always say) an entirely different question, but it is a possibilty that certainly has to be considered. I have seen it pointed out on this board that unexplainable things in the sky are not necessarily alien spacecraft. Quite right, but it is possible. THIS ET STUFF IS NOT STUPID as was claimed! It is a perfectly valid argument for any strange aeroform that exhibits abilities beyond the capability of human technology.

    ItÕs time for you ill informed sceptics to either clue up or shut up! Once again, apologies to all you knowledgable sceptics.
    --------------------
    Spadge,

    "In my opinion, it is a fact that many sceptics or debunker knows little or nothing of the history and facts surrounding UFOs."
    (Sorry, Spadge I just have to take this petty little jab

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    If it's just your opinion, then it can't be fact. If it's fact then it can't merely be your opinion.

    But on to the real point. One does not NEED to know the whole history of UFO's to see that most claims are preposterous. "Because I said so. I did get an anal probe so there!"

    "It is a perfectly valid argument for any strange aeroform that exhibits abilities beyond the capability of human technology."

    Many natural occurrences are well beyond the capability of human technology. Because one has not specifically identified such a possibility does not make alien spacecraft the next most likely cause.

    And many skeptics HAVE had encounters. However due to their critical mindset they realized that it was merely a frisbee and not Elvis Presley's UFO.

    By nature, skeptics realize that most 'believers' are ill informed. Despite their misinformation, those believers who are unaware of the facts are free to voice their opinions. It is a freedom which should be extended to all ignoramuses, regardless of ideological affiliation.

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    This is Blacktubby,

    (Please people, take what I say with a grain of salt. I have the unfortunate ability to annoy people without realizing it. Let me know when I get out of line, and be understanding with my sense of humor.)
     
  13. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    160
    Dear Mr Blacktubby

    Please do not be offended, but I have to admit that I found your post utterly hilarious. Even your name amused me!

    At this moment in time I am at a complete loss to reply. I'll let someone else have a go first.


    Dave

    What you say is sadly true with many people who simply refuse to believe sincere witnesses to bizarre events.


    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 07, 1999).]
     
  14. H-kon Registered Senior Member

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    312
    Just for the record, I myself have seen a UFO as many others have done, but one that vibrates in the sky, and suddenly disappears is not swamp gas. But since it was getting dark in the middle of winter in Norway, lots of snow and all, the object, or phenomenon as a better label was clearly visible. I lived 8 minutes of walking next to a military installation in Norway, but to this day, i have never heard a similiar story at all, so that could have been anything, but i had a gut feeling that this was something one could touch. Well.. enough of that.

    My point is that I believe in UFO's, no. I mean Alien spacecrafts I have no idea if what i saw was "true" but i know that I cant prove anything, as much as others can prove that they DONT exist.

    So If you dont believe in it, answer our posts yes, but also be open to other peoples opinion and experiences,. Dont live in a box. Neither party will benefit from it. The only way one can find the truth to all of this is to work together on it, instead of cursing one another of ones belief. But maybe I am asking too much here

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    Spadge:

    You seem to have read alot about this stuff. I wondered if you have read something about a place in Norway called "Hessdalen" or the "Horseshoe Valley"?



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  15. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    H-kon

    Yes, I am familiar with the Hessdalen UFOs. They were investigated by a team of scientists over a long period of time. I might be wrong , but I think it was called Project Triangle or something. I have always been intrigued as to why more scientists never got involved in the study of these lights which occured (they may still be occuring for all I know) in a remote, snowy and mountainous region of Norway. They were undoutedly real, although most people think that the Hessdalen lights have more to do with some unkown natural phenomena than with alien spacecraft. Possibly something like the famous Marfa Lights in Texas.

    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 08, 1999).]
     
  16. Boris Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    1,052
    I'd like to add another potential explanation to the swamp gas pile.

    It just occurred to me that, as a civilization, we have only started using massive illumination in the latter half of the century. I mean, look at our cities -- they shine so bright, you can see them from the Moon today! What if, of all those billions of shining lights all over the globe, every now and then a few get refracted around the atmosphere and refocused in the middle of a blank sky for everyone to observe? I'm talking about the same mechanisms that generate mirages, only now applied to all the terrestrial artificial light sources in the dark hemisphere, as well as navigation lights of aircraft. This would explain how the UFOs defy the laws of physics -- a mere mirage can indeed appear and disappear abruptly, as well as accelerate at any rate and in any direction.

    Then there's the ball lightning hypothesis. By the way, how come nobody talks about ball lightning anymore? It used to be a popular topic once upon a time, with throngs of witnesses reporting it!

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  17. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    I sure Boris you is right in saying that many UFOs are misinterpretations of ball lightening. It would be interesting to know what percentage.

    It's always interested me due to the fact that I am pretty certain that I personally witnessesd a display of ball lightening many years ago. It was quite an interesting experience although I never put it down to anything else such as UFO.


    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 08, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 08, 1999).]
     
  18. MaTTo Registered Senior Member

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    A small defense for the skeptics.

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    I've been researching the UFO phenomenon for about 5 years now, Spadge, so maybe you'll give my opinion some listening to. I can assure you I know more than enough on the subject and over the time of my research, and suprisingly unlike many researchers in the field, I have grown from believer to skeptic.

    The UFO phenomenon itself, is, without question, real. I do not doubt that

    But still, people, let's keep to logical perspectives!!!! I hear what some of you talk about and believe whole-heartildy and it disturbs me to the fullest. It's getting as bad as religion!

    The whole reason I leaped into the field of UFOs was because I thought it wasn't getting enough attention. I thought it was a new field of science that was trying to explain "the why." But now, I have come to know that this is not science. It has become puesdo-science. Almost pure religion. You people refuse to hear anything that will debunk you. You can't stand it. You have made up your minds and you refuse to change. You are too much like religoius followers, and I fear, that after the millinium, you'll have your own established UFO religion.

    All I ask from you is to do your own investigations. Insert logical thinking. Dig until you find some kind of answer. And for christ sakes don't take the evidence presented by your television sets.

    And last, give the skeptics some listening too. They aren't doing this just to "bully" you poor babys around. They're doing this because what you people are assuming is crazy and you'd look at them the same skepticism the the situation was vice versa.


    MaTTo

    [This message has been edited by MaTTo (edited July 08, 1999).]
     
  19. Spadge Registered Senior Member

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    Ha...suddenly the breeze of true scepticism sweeps through our little debate. More like a mini tornado actually. I would imagine that it might have ruffled a few feathers here. However, any feathers ruffled by this reply do not include mine.

    Matto

    Firstly I would like to thank you for your excellent response. You are exactly the opposite of the type of sceptic that I was having a go at. I find myself having to agree with everything you say. I do however, still stand by the assertion that it is quite possible that some UFOs might be alien craft, and I do stress might.

    With reagrds to your views, yes...it's a sad fact that some 'believers' will not consider any other suggestion put forward to account for UFOs other than alien spacecraft. You mentioned the religious side to all this and again I would have to agree with you. Also, the fact that you should not take at face value anything you see on TV with regards to UFOs. Of the innumerable programmes that have been aired on this subject hardly any that I have seen have not been littered with factual errors and psuedo-science. The same applies with the hundreds of books written about UFOs with a huge majority (this is only my opinion of course) being total rubbish.

    You do say "give the sceptics some listening to." I also would urge people to do that, but only if the sceptics in question knew what they were talking about. Remember, we are trying to get at the true facts here and we don't want any falsehoods clouding the issue.

    I was really attacking people who dismiss the subject out of hand without knowing the true facts. I personally believe their views to be just as unimportant as the people that believe that aliens are here for no reason.

    I would very much like to know why your scepticism in the ETH grew Matto?

    [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 08, 1999).]
     
  20. Dave Registered Senior Member

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    maTTo,
    No offence but you obviously have not had a giant saucer go over your head not more than 100 feet above you, have you? Of course not, that's why I had to listen to you say that " I can't stand the skeptics and I refuse to hear anything that will debunk me, I have made up my mind and I refuse to change."
    I'm no backward country hick. I saw what I saw and I'm bored with listening to people like you finding lamo excuses on my behalf to explain away what I witnessed. Just bloody accept it, will you. People have seen flying saucers. Some of these witnesses are very credible (do we need to mention Jimmy Carters documented report???). So, what is your problem with that? And what's with the beat-up now-a-days about UFO believers starting their own religion?? Give it a rest, mate! Or is that your aim, "they're all nutcakes - those UFO freaks, Man, they should stop embarrassing themselves, what a bunch of fruit-loops, hey??!!!"

    Sorry, but I had to have my say. Don't get offended maTTo, I always get my back up with skeptics, you've simply joined the qeue here that stops me from having "free-wheeling acid dropping fantasies that I seem to participate in during my lunch breaks" ! LOL

    Dave.
     
  21. Corp.Hudson Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    419
    Hey guys. Didya miss me? I have had linux trouble that prevents me from using my home computer

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    just want to make a point: "In my opinion its a fact that..."-spadge

    how can a fact be your opinion?
     
  22. god Registered Senior Member

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    Dave,

    I'm intrested in hearing the details of your sighting , if you care to dilvulge them.( time of day , other witinesses? , military base near by? , size , sounds )

    thank you
     
  23. Dave Registered Senior Member

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    292
    God....frey,
    Hit the hyperlink below and it will take you to my encounter stories post.

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    <center><a href="http://www.exosci.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000022.html/#STORY1" onmouseover="window.status='Daves UFO Stories'; return true;"><strong>Dave's UFO Stories!</strong></center></a>

    Regards,
    Dave.

    [This message has been edited by Dave (edited July 10, 1999).]
     

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