Article I have to disagree with one point. FEMA went around like little gremlins, true, sabotaging relief efforts and cutting communications lines. However, they failed to keep the news from getting out because, guess what? FEMA wanted that news to get out. They want people to distrust the U.S. government. They want to start the revolution within the next few weeks. They have already provoked local law enforcement around New Orleans to post armed guards on their facilities to repel FEMA saboteurs. Some of us have actually seen Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard on TV talking about how they cut the communications lines, so this is real and it is deadly. Myself, were I the sheriff, I would have shot that FEMA person on sight, or better yet jailed him as a suspected child molester and conveniently lost his personal effects. It's got to be soon. They have to hit us again when all of the realization has sunk in and before it has worn off, and again to wear us out some more. They will really start carting people off to the crematoriums when we see military enforcement of the "bird flu" quarantine. And if I am alive after they have decimated the U.S. population, I am not at all sure that I want to be. What I had to live for will be gone. Who would I take revenge against? The government that did it or the idiots who allowed it? All those who want to live on a dead world, arrange a time and a place and bring guns. I will stand still on that spot. You know what to do. That can be the beginning of the end. I have a lot to give to the world, but there needs to be a world there for me to give it to, and damn it, I want money and somewhere decent to spend it. Hell, a lot of us are going to freeze to death this winter when we can't pay our heating bills. The already insane rates are going to go up again and unemployment and underemployment have never been higher, but that's heading into another thread, or is it? We have a deadly combination of many thousands of refugees looking for jobs who had jobs in New Orleans, a poor employment situation, increasing expenses, increasing strain on our infrastructures, and increasing military involvement in our everyday lives. Violent revolutions happen when people are given no other choice. They are a form of suicide. We haven't yet gotten smart enough to avoid yet another American bloodbath, either. Clue: Denial that it can happen here helps make sure that it DOES happen here. This is the real reason that they are taking our weapons away. It is why they outlawed the possession of explosive devices and chemicals to make explosives. That student blowing himself up was designed to put people on alert about anyone who wants to make explosives out of fertilizer. They strip away our defenses then they come to us and round us up for slaughter like cattle and sheep.
Interesting post there. Why would the FEMA people cut lines of communication? The only reason I can think of is that they don't want the residents going back into their homes because of the bacteria growth and molds that are very prominent inside most houses there. From what I have understood there's going to be a massive rebuilding program there as well as in the other states that need to rebuild also. They must raze all the condemed property to start over again. If people were to go back into their homes it would be harder to ask them to leave in the future rather than trying to keep them from coming back now. I don't understand your reasoning about the bird flu either. They have a vaccine for it but they just don't have enough of the vaccine to go around as yet. I believe they are in the process of making more so that they can give it to those that might need it. The bird flu hasn't even been found here as yet but you're already making up this story about everyone dying for reasons I'm not certain of. Are you paranoid or delusional about what is really happening or just another crackpot trying to cause a panic amongst the people? There have been many instances in the past when other asian flus hit they could have wiped out millions of Americans but that never happened did it? So why do you think that your line of thinking is real when many times before they could have done what your suggesting they are going to do now?
just a cut in note: as I read at the bbc (probably) the scientists now are afraid that the bird flu virus very probably might mutate into something like the spanish flu virus at the beggining of the century and for that naturally they have no vaccine I don't know how much of that is just media hype though Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Interesting thoughts but I have to argue about the intent. I think this whole issue was strickly incompetence. Incompetence in many areas of government. It is true that government didnt want some of the information to get out. The body count comes to mind. The new orgs went to court and won that easily. And while we watched live feeds each night on the tragedy unfolding in N.O. there was no orders issued to cnn, nbc, etc. to "stop those broadcasts", issued from the top spots in government, or if there were, they were soundly ignored. With no outwardly ill effects on those broadcasters who ignored such a call, that I can determine. Did FEMA persons cut communication lines? It appears so. But I dont see any real evidence that this was the intent you have posted. It seems to be more of the same old incompetence. Maybe someone pouring over some of the exe. orders listed here: http://prisonplanet.com/Pages/Sept05/060905FEMA.htm and interpreting small segments as an absolute mandate. Incompetance. An article at Harpers magazine touches a bit on this. Its a long read and kinda rambles in a few parts. But if you take the time to read it in order, the last segment of the article talks about N.O. The basic arguement is one point as I understand it. And I quote "And when we look back at Katrina, we may see that the greatest savagery was that of our public officials, who not only failed to provide the infrastructure, social services, and opportunities that would have significantly decreased the vulnerability of pre-hurricane New Orleans but who also, when disaster did occur, put their ideology before their people". Full article here: http://www.harpers.org/TheUsesOfDisaster.html
Hype always occurs when persons are debating worse-case scenarios. The probablity that the current avian flus could mutate into a pandemic have a real base. "Like the 1918 virus, the current avian flu in Southeast Asia occurs naturally in birds. In 1918, the virus mutated, infected people and then spread among them. So far, the current Asian virus has killed at least 65 people but has rarely spread person-to-person." from here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/10/05/1918.flu.pandemic.ap/index.html "Two reports in The Lancet medical journal this month said that resistance to anti-flu drugs was growing worldwide. In places such as China, drug resistance exceeded 70 percent, suggesting that drugs like amantadine and rimantadine will probably no longer be effective for treatment or as a preventive in a pandemic outbreak of flu, the reports said." From here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/30/birdflu.drugs.reut/index.html So its not really media hype so much as scenerios being pondered by medical persons. The mutation of this particular flu is occuring, relatively fast, in terms of evolution. Is some of this mutation man-made? Maybe. With the quote above and china, it seems some of the same old stuff. The mutation of bacterias from the over use of antibiotics is well known. This bird flu appears to be heading down the same path via medicine itself, in its efforts to subdue nature, for the benefit of people. This commentary gave me a chuckle: http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff10072005.html
Therefore it couldn't possibly happen in the future Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Milkweed, is incompetence a good excuse? "I cut the emergency communications lines but I'm stupid so I don't got to go to jail." The parties who did this need to go to jail on felony charges. These people are supposedly college educated to become qualified for their jobs, so we must assume that if they committed these crimes, they did so intentionally. There is absolutely no way on Earth that they did not commit a crime when they did that. Any judge who would dismiss these charges out of hand deserves to lose his commission or his judgeship or whatever you call it. Scientists are hard at work reviving the Spanish flu this year. I don't personally believe that this will actually have an effect in itself, except to help people believe it when the claim comes out that millions of us are being affected by the flu. Bush Jr. is talking about using the military to work with law enforcement when the bird flu finally drags its way around the world to become an epidemic here. Myself, personally I think that if the military comes around gathering people up to force them to take flu shots, there will be millions of deaths. This could be why so many people who work in the field have been murdered the last few years. Anyone who can and would credibly say anything about this scam has either been murdered or is in fear of their life.
One accusation does NOT make a legal case! One person accusing someone or some organization of wrong-doing does not mean that it's all true. Legal evidence is necessary in order to convict someone in a court of law. Well, it's not an excuse, perhaps, but it might well be a REASON. But again, making an accusation of "incompetence" doesn't make it true. And in this day of "sensationalist news reporting", I'm skeptical of everything that I read. I usually wait a few days to see if the same story appears again, especially in different sources. If not, ...? That's NOT what the military would be expected to do! Where did you get such nonsense? There was/is talk of the military being used to enforce any mandatory quarantines ...i.e., keeping infected people from spreading the disease to other locations/people. Check your sources ..hopefully recognizing sensationalism from truth. Got any evidence of these murders? Or is it just some more sensationalism? Baron Max
I think it's real. I also think that mandatory quarantines are going to have no effect except to stifle trade and starve and freeze people to death at a time when they are most vulnerable. Tell me something. Will you allow yourself to believe information that points to the fact that vaccines have killed in the past? Vaccinations were very popular in WWI, and it was in the aftermath of WWI that the worst flu epidemic ever occured.
Be sensible, man! First of all, there have NEVER been mandatory vaccinations of the general public in the U.S. Yes, schoolchildren are required to get their shots before entering school, but have you seen a rash of deaths because of it? Of course not! And if you'll think for just a little bit, you can easily understand why the flu outbreak followed WW-I. Here's some major hints to keep in mind while you are thinking about it: do you realize where and how the flu virus originates? And what about the volume of world travel to those areas PRIOR to the war, eh? If you'll make even the slightest attempt at understanding these things your paranoia will evaporate. Or do you just enjoy being the doom-seeker?
Well, automatically believing everything in goverment press releases is a lot stupider. When fishing for a cause for the epidemics of 1917-1918, it is very plausible that it was the result of the manufacture and proliferation of vaccines. Do you actually believe that there was a chance in hell that a vaccine made in 1917 was safe? Be sensible. Microbiology was in its infancy and viruses could not be isolated at all. We had no way to know how well a particular virus might survive treatment to weaken it. Then we have the massive use of mustard gas and the manufacture of the associated chemicals. "Air pollution" wasn't even a term back then. Industries just let it fly. We have no idea how many people could have been contaminated with mustard gas and mustard gas ingredients, especially when the different militaries started disposing of the leftover materials.
Once again you are so far off the mark that you haven't a clue as to what I was talking about. And I can see you made no effort to take advantage of the hints I provided. Here's another major clue for you: There was absolutely no effort made to develop a vaccine (because no one knew what to do) during that time NOR was any administered. Now - what does that fact do to your silly theory??????????????
I've got a major clue for you: Influenza existed before 1917, and so did crude vaccines. By crude I mean deadly. In 1917 when they tried to make a vaccine, even God would have trouble knowing what was going to happen.
Incompetence is a more viable reason why the lines were cut rather than your original suggestion of an effort by FEMA to start a civil war, which is what I understood your post was attempting to convey. Does this make sense to the average person (cutting police com lines)? Of course not. But when does incompetent action make sense? But you cannot argue that incompetent actions do not occur. Now in this post you make a different point than your original post. Bringing charges against an individual was not suggested in your first post. Now I am wondering why the police did not arrest the individual for tampering with police communication lines right at that moment. Maybe I should get me a dark t-shirt with the word FEMA printed on it. I wonder if I could use the shoulder of the road in rush hour traffic. If the current strain(s) of bird flu do manage to escalate into a pandemic you mean. Because of the paranoia of this current administration, you do have some points here. I would guess the real motivation behind this current effort to utilize the military has more to do with money than actual threat to the health of the american people. We watched what happened in Toronto when SARs broke out a few years ago. Tourism (for example) fell sharply long after the outbreak was over. I would imagine that many people would simply not go to work in their efforts to reduce risk to themselves should an outbreak of deadly bird flu happen in Los Angles for example. Which seems to be the real effort going on during this planning as stated here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/10/08/flu.pandemic.ap/index.html So IF they send in the military to quarenteen sections of cities that have an outbreak or to guard clinics giving the vaccines, they offer a sense of security to most who live in the USA. I also would be hesitant to be gathered up by the military for a "life saving" shot. Not because of secret military effort to erradicate mass amounts of human persons. That doesnt seem to be the real effort in the planning going on now for such an outbreak, with the military perspective as you have presented it. I would be more worried that testing has not been done on the current flu vaccine in this push to get millions of doses out to the people, and corners being cut on the production floor to meet the demand or to win bonuses on their contract for getting the job done in record time. The current flu vaccine production is simply guess work on what types/variations of the flu will be most prevelant during any given season. We have had periods in the past where the persons who decide these things guessed wrong, leaving those who were immunized with limited defenses during the flu season. We have also had recalls on existing flu vaccines due to errors in production, and production facilities closed down due to unacceptable conditions in their facilities. For those who went and received their shots early in the flu season, the recall came too late leaving these person who followed the guidelines (get your shots early) most at risk for having unintened side effects. A pandemic of the proportion seen in 1918 seems unlikely now, with the massive amount of global communications, medical knowledge, both within the medical community itself, and by the average person in the USA and Europe, and other places on the globe. One thing the pandemics of past had that they probably do not have at this time, is time. Time to fester in communities that were isolated from other communities. If you think for a moment that outbreaks in china, or vietnam, or singapore, or taiwan will go unnoticed on the world level, you kid yourself. Its been very easy for the average person to follow along as these isolated occurances of flu have broken out currently. In the worse case scenarios presented in the above link, it seems the estimated death toll from a "pandemic" in the usa will be less than 1% of the population. They do not give a % on how many estimated survived infections in this article. 8.5 million hospitalised was quoted in the New York Times. This number will overwhelm the current health care system for sure.
The point you make may end up to be true in the event a pandemic of this nature occurs (mandatory quarantines causing trade/starvation/other problems). But that is not the intent of the current planning for such an epidemic that I can determine from the information being presented. As with the efforts being undertaken, they are based on worse-case scenarios. I will think of your posts in the same manner. This is your viewpoint on worse-case scenarios when government becomes involved. Now a question for you. What is your solution/ideas for the minimization/response to a pandemic? Yes, vaccines can kill some people, sometimes. History of vaccines here (easy read): http://www.bookrags.com/sciences/biology/vaccine-wmi.html The 1918 flu pandemic was not caused by vaccines. It was caused by the virus itself and the fact there was not a vaccination for this at the time. The high numbers of deaths for soldiers was simply due to increased contact with infected persons in close proximity (such as barracks) and the particularly contagious nature of this particular strain. In the genetic sample recovered from the alaskan permafrost, something like out of 80 persons in this village, 5 survived. Search www.nytimes.com for that information. Title of the article is "Experts Unlock Clues to Spread of 1918 Flu Virus" A vaccine for the flu virus was discovered in 1944, due to the work of Dr. Salk and Dr. Francis. I would suggest that the efforts of these men in their research of the possiblity for flu vaccines began because of the 1918 flu pandemic. From this link: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art15765.asp
How? In what way? By disagreeing your statement? If that worries people then they need to get themselves checked out Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Of course not. It didn't take any credible evidence to give us AIDS, SARS, or BSE, so I don't have to.
Milkweed, I'm pretty sure that this season they are going to do everything they can to kill off the "useless" and the "undesirables." Since I am a 40 plus year old pervert who believes in sex and the Constitution, I am quite certain that I am near the top of the death list. I may have had some sort of God-given mission at one time to warn people of these trends before they became the monsters that they have. I have failed. A lot of people will suffer and die this winter because of King George. He will use everything, including the atomic bomb, before he finally kills himself in his own madness.
