How much do you pay for fuel at the moment?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Psycho-Cannon, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    744
    Just Curious what people round the world are paying for Fuel at the Moment.

    Here in the UK we are upto an average of about 94p or $1.73 a Litre on Unleaded.
    Thats £3.56 or $6.52 a Gallon.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Where I am in Australia, we're at around US$1.84 per litre.

    BTW, what's the conversion from litres to gallons? (There are two types of gallons, aren't there? American ones and British ones?)
     
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  5. Psycho-Cannon Home grown and Psycho Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I'm using US Gallons

    1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liters
     
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  7. top mosker Ariloulaleelay Registered Senior Member

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    458
    $3.15 per gallon.
     
  8. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    EUR 1.027 a litre (USD 1.282)
    considering that we're the poorest country in EU,
    there's quite a desperation over this
     
  9. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    That's 4.853 USD per US Gallon
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Hey, the prices are dropping in the Dallas/Ft Worth area! In many cases, it's already below $3.00 and falling ....some stations have gas as low as $2.74. Pretty neat, huh?

    And y'all thought that the sky was fallin', didn't you? But old Baron Max just sat back and drank his beer and smiled -- he's been through it all before and the sky ain't fallen yet. ...LOL!

    Baron Max
     
  11. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    sure, it is not falling, but it's getting pretty pricy for many people to move around, including transportation of goods, i.e., everything gets more expensive (heating too)
    many will freeze to death this year, because heating would cost too much

    well yes, c'est la vie, but I just want to point out that any increase in petrol costs is severly felt in poorer countries
     
  12. Ericc Registered Senior Member

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    46
    Here in Ireland, in the last year it has gone up from around €0.89 to some €1.18 to €1.37 depending on the station you stop at. We have also had a 40% rise in house hold gas and Electric has gone sky high to.

    However these are not the figures everyone should be looking at, the figures you should all have you eyes on, is the profits of the Emegy companies. While most of us are faceing a Winter with less heating in our houses and having to walk the kids to school or get the bikes out and serviced, the like of Shell and the others are looking at record profits.

    Hum, somethings not adding up I thinks, The Customer is at a stand still while the Fat cats get fatter still.

    I can understand them putting up prices if there profits remained exactly the same, if they did they would have no need to cut staff or anything.

    To me it just looks like we are paying for them to report a massive rise in profits.

    Time for Action I think ?
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    Yes! The same is here! There is a monopoly in heating services (a heritage from the USSR infrastructure), but the company is showing record profits.
    Same for petrolium, because due to the EU regulations we can get our petrolium only from one plant in Lithuania which belongs to Russians, so there is a monopoly there too, though not at the distributor level.
    And we can't buy petrolium from elsewhere, because the quality from those sources is too low for EU standarts.
     
  14. Ericc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    :bugeye: Like I said its time for action, we are being drive into the ground while some poeple are going home with a big

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    on there faces.

    Thing is its going to take a big world wide push to stop this, any Ideas ?
     
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    Here in Sao Paulo (Brazil) we have a choice Alcohol or gasoline at every station. Cars have been using alcohol for about 30 years in Brazil. 12 month growing season, cheap land and labor make Alcohol very competive although for several years about a decade ago it was not the more economical fuel because the world price of sugar was high and that of petroleum was low. Now days most new cars are "flex fuel" and can burn any mixture or pure of either fuel.

    Currently the real is relatively strong WRT US dollar (2.30R$ buys a dollar) Alcohol costs 0.97R$/ liter and regular gas about R$2.30/ liter. High test is more expensive. There is less energy in alcohol and a common rule of thumb is that if alcohol cost is 40% less than gas, buy the alcohol to reduce your cost per Km of driving.

    Brazil would like to sell/license its very advance (30years of development and billions of Km of driving experience) to rest of world and then export some of our cheap alcohol, but your driving costs are in the political control of leaders in the pockets of the oil industry, especially in the US where the top leader and many of the top men themselves were oil industry CEOs. They and the automotive industry want you to buy the big gas hogs you do, so relative to the rest of the world, they tax gas less and under fund public health etc. US is very rich, but far from the top in public services, like public transportations etc. which can reduce global warming etc. Katrina is one of the prices you will increasingly pay most years for filling the air with CO2 at the rate you do. Expect worse as the years go by.

    Also note that sugar cane alcohol reduces gobal warming as it removes carbon from the air - far more than the cars powed by alcohol release. Not only is part left in the ground (roots) when cut, but only the fermented juice goes to still. The pressed cane stocks are sometimes burned to make electrical energy or steam to directly power the cane crushers extracting the juice. If not used this way, it typically becomes part of cattle feed - Sorry to tell you James R, but Brazil now has passed Austrila as the world leading producer for beef so we have a lot of cows to feed.

    I can not understand why US voters are so stupid as to elect people more intererested in the health and wealth of the oil industry than in Alcohol - a proven, clean, economical, renewable, energy system.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2005
  16. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    2,151
    That is quite a statement. Burning alchol removes carbon from the air:-0
    Dear, do you know what rotting is? Rotting=slow burning; it's a part of carbon cycle which is returning carbon (mostly as carbon dioxide, methane,...) back into environment. Thus, planting trees, sugar cane, whatever to reduce carbon dioxide level=stupid, because carbon cycle will eventually release all the carbon dioxide captured by plants in the environment.

    What a pride; to cut unique rain forest - to grow beef -in order to feed already fat westerners - in order to make few dirt rich Brazilians richer. Neo liberal slavery as a source of pride. Who would think. BTW, for how long Brazil can exploit rain forest soils before they will erode and landscape will turn into moonscape?

    Before calling somebody stupid you should critically examine your articles of belief (alcohol, in this case). If you'll take a sober look, you'll see how far is your faith into clean alcohol is from reality.

    Facts: 1) Alcohol is not clean (neither sun nor wind energy).
    2) Alcohol is energy LOSER i.e. you cannot make closed cycle energetic system based exclusively on alcohol.
    3) Transforming other form of energy (coal, natural gas, whatever) into alcohol is not energy efficient by definition. It makes much more sense to use the energy of coal, etc. directly without alcohol middleman.
    4} Price is not a proof of anything, cause it depends on so many factors
     
  17. Christopher3 BLINDED BY SCIENCE Registered Senior Member

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    2.99 agallon this friday, I waited for the prices to drop, it was 3.46 last week!
     
  18. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    2,151
    I haven't driven my car in 5 months. I still have $1.83/gal (or so) gas in my tank.
     
  19. xylus chocolate Registered Senior Member

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    39
    $3.98 in hawaii. By the way, its bad to leave your car sitting around for 5 months...
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    A careful analyse of the energy cycle of sugar cane to alcohol does not show much net energy production or loss. The energy cost of fertilizer, transport of the cane to the processing plants, operation of the plant (crushing and distillation), delivery of the alcohol to filling stations, etc. Some studies show there is net energy loss, especially when alcohol is produce in Iowa from corn or French sugar beets. Others studies show a slight net gain. In any case, compared to fosil fuels, it takes little brains to see than it is much more of a self-sustaining system than they are. Certainly it can be a renewable energy source.

    The energy cost of the distillation process can be greatly reduced (at least by 75%) by good insulation of the still and counter-flow heat exchangers that pre heat the incoming juice as they condense the alcohol and sdischarged hot water. That is even if only half of the currently under-utalized technically feasible known technology were deployed, no study woud question the net energy gain of an alcohol economy or its sustainability.

    Alcohol and wind are the most attractive and definitely economicaly viable at forms of solar energy, especailly if the true societal cost in health expenses, etc. of fossil fuel is correctly included. Both are much cleaner and much less damaging to the enviroment than the current petrolelum / coal energy system currently providing most of the energy. Both are needed as wind does not not provide portable power (for cars etc.) With these rational facts, not your unsupported assertions, I will call anyone disputing them "stupid."

    Alcohol is a very clean burning fuel, but in any internal combuston engine, you will make a lot of undesirable NOx and alcohol is no exception. However, if the alcohol were burnt in an external combuston Sterling engine you could breath the NOx free exhaust if it had oxygen in it still.

    Half of of your four concluding "facts" are true. Certainly converting coal is more efficiently as an energy source if it is directly used than by converting to some "middleman" as you put it, but this is one argument against the "hydrongen economy" not an "alcohol economy." Why bring up this "strawman" unless, you felt that you must make some concluding statements that are true. No one was arguing that economics is simple, depends on only a few things, or proves much. Both your true conclusion statements are strawmen. Your other two are simply false. Your conclusion were:

    "Facts: 1) Alcohol is not clean (neither sun nor wind energy).
    2) Alcohol is energy LOSER i.e. you cannot make closed cycle energetic system based exclusively on alcohol.
    3) Transforming other form of energy (coal, natural gas, whatever) into alcohol is not energy efficient by definition. It makes much more sense to use the energy of coal, etc. directly without alcohol middleman.
    4} Price is not a proof of anything, cause it depends on so many factors."

    I have already addressed (1) above. On (2) I will only note that an alcohol torch burns so cleanly that the flame is dangerously difficult to even see.

    On the very first sentence of your post, you are sadly missinformed. There is more carbon stored in soil humus than all the coal that man has ever burnt. Your best argument you missed. Simple farming with a plow turns up this humus and it has recently been realized that the greater exposure of the soil stored carbon is probably one of the major, if not the largest, contributor to global CO2 gases. I don't know what to do about this as people need to eat, but if all became vegetarians it would help a lot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2005
  21. SativaDiva Registered Senior Member

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    79
    Finally down to $3.00 a gallon.
     
  22. Monia Registered Member

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    22
    $3.53 in Chicago ....$2.15 S.E. Chicago (where you could be killed)
    It hurts when you have a Hummer

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  23. xylus chocolate Registered Senior Member

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    39
    The original, or the H2? Either way, drive it around S.E. Chicago

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    The prices keep rising here....
     

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