New findings on Enceladus

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Avatar, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4197686.stm

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    To me the same question is interesting: how such a small body has such an active geology.
    Maybe it's just a short term occurrence that we have been lucky to witness?
     
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  3. Lucas Registered Senior Member

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    So, the icy particles spewed by Enceladus are the cause of the replenishment of Saturn's E-ring. A curious case of planetary symbiosis, like the relation between buffalos and oxpeckers. Saturn provides shelter and Enceladus provides a ring
     
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  5. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    maybe there is some heat reflecting material in some parts of the crust witch makes the heat build up.
     
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  7. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    A substantial impact could have melted the larger part of one hemisphere (note the virtual absence of impact craters) and the current activity is the result of residual heat from that event.
    Some simple calculations would reveal how large the impacting body had to be, while a crater density count would tell us roughly when.
     
  8. Lucas Registered Senior Member

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  9. Professor Marvel Registered Member

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    Actually it's the fourth such body. Don't forget about the ice volcanoes on Triton (a moon of Neptune).


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  10. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    Hydrogen peroxide..... H2O2 ice and because the moon has an atmosphere, liquid H2O2 would flow on the surface. The blue could be liquid/solid oxygen.

    no mystery
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2005
  11. Novacane Registered Senior Member

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    Sounds like a new good source for H202........This is great news. I needed a couple of gallons of it anyway. Book me a ticket to Enceladus.

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  12. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    >> .This is great news

    yes you would think so.

    An almost (well unlimited.... supply of energy... fuel for Universe changing operations, IMO. All cold bodies in space would have a thin to very thick coating of hydrogen peroxide.

    But very dangerous to mine !

    and almost impossible to land on..... mmmh, a bit of creative technology required.
     
  13. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

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    Where are you getting this idea from? You've already claimed that the failure of the hyabusha probe was because the ball it shot made a small explosion from h2o2.

    Io is geologically active because of the tidal forces of jupiter and gravitational interactions of the moons and such. Could this be the case with Enceladus... probably.
     
  14. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    729
    >> Could this be the case with Enceladus... probably.

    this moon is 500 km dia.... about the size of Great Britain
    not much chance of "tidal forces" creating the energy needed.

    >> Where are you getting this idea from? >>

    Chemistry, what can exist and where can it exist.......
     
  15. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    He is a complete nutball who lives in a fantasy world, so the answer is..... from the recesses of his mentally ill mind.<P>
     
  16. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    He's a peroxide blonde, and you know what they say about blondes.
     
  17. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    On the other hand.

    Consider these extracts

    Loeffler, M. J.; Baragiola, R. A. American Astronomical Society, DPS meeting #37,8/2005H2O2: A precursor for O2 on icy satellites? Laboratory studies
    Radiation processes affect the surface chemistry in planetary systems and in the ISM, and thus they need to be studied extensively. Recently, we have studied H2O2 production in water ice by 100 keV H+ irradiation at temperatures relevant to Europa and the ISM. Although hydrogen peroxide has only been detected so far in the infrared reflectance of Europa, this molecule is believed to be an important factor for the radiation-induced chemistry that occurs in water ice in other outer solar system objects. In particular, it has been proposed that this molecule may be a precursor for the production of O2 exospheres around icy satellites and Saturn's rings.

    Cooper, Paul D.; Johnson, Robert E.; Quickenden, Terence I. Icarus, Volume 166, 12/2003Hydrogen peroxide dimers and the production of O2 in icy satellite surfaces
    Oxygen is seen in the reflectance spectra of the icy surfaces of Ganymede and Europa via absorption bands at 627 and 573 nm. Here we show that the trapped O2 associated with these spectral features can be produced via radiation-induced decomposition of hydrogen peroxide dimers contained in hydrogen peroxide inclusions in these icy satellite surfaces.

    R. W. Carlson et al, Science March. 1999 Vol 283Hydrogen Peroxide on the Surface of Europa
    Spatially resolved infrared and ultraviolet wavelength spectra of Europa's leading, anti-jovian quadrant observed from the Galileo spacecraft show absorption features resulting from hydrogen peroxide. Comparisons with laboratory measurements indicate surface hydrogen peroxide concentrations of about 0.13 percent, by number, relative to water ice. The inferred abundance is consistent with radiolytic production of hydrogen peroxide by intense energetic particle bombardment and demonstrates that Europa's surface chemistry is dominated by radiolysis.

    There's lots more.
     
  18. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks Ophiolite

    I am always looking for data

    The field of cosmic chemistry is growing, but most of the conclusions are conjecture, formed from analysis at arms length. So much to learn here. Thanks
     
  19. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

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    Take into consideration the moon's atmosphere is 91% water vapor... then URI, how does this make any sense?: "H2O2 ice and because the moon has an atmosphere, liquid H2O2 would flow on the surface."

    From what those sources say, it seems only a tiny fraction of H202 is produced by radiation bombarding the water ice. I dont see how there could be rivers of it.
     
  20. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

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  21. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    >> it seems only a tiny fraction of H202 is produced by radiation bombarding the water ice

    LOL, labs..
    nuclear radiation is not a real player compared to UV from the Sun
    The condensate on the moons surface is OH + OH ---> H2O2

    IMO, water is not stable under 'space conditions'

    Certainly some H2O2 maybe degraded to water..... and an equilibrium will be reached between regeneration and decomposition..... I expect the blue colour is liquid O2 / H2O2 ice slurry.... maybe water ice under all that....

    Always expect the unexpected, even though if you knew correctly, the unexpected would be expected..

    ie, we will have to wait until we get down on the ground, IMO.
     
  22. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    The tiger cracks are probably due to tidal forces, probably something like a weaker version of Io. Or perhaps it adds to this with a radioactive core.
     
  23. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Tethys and one of the other moons (can't remember which) are in fairly close proximity to Enceladus. It is thought that the tidal stresses from them are responsible for 'pumping it up'. It is definitely icy. Little or no rock content to provide radioactive heating.
     

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