Animal Mutilations

[Spadge]

I’m sure many of you know that this particularly gruesome mystery is said by many to have links with the UFO mystery. Why are ranchers in America suffering the loss of cattle in circumstances they say are not due to normal predators? Are these dead cows the evidence of an alien presence?
Why do UFO reports seem to precede a mutilation case? What are the strange unmarked black helicopters that have been seen around mutilation sites? Is a non-human intelligence killing cows or is this part of some covert government plot? Do we have a less sinister explanation here? If, as many ranchers insist, cattle are being kidnapped and cut up by aliens, what possible use can they have for the sexual organs (amongst other things) of cows?

I’d be interested to hear the views of anyone on this board as to the nature of these killings.

[Boris]

Spadge:

I doubt that cattle mutilations would be a covert government activity. If they needed cattle for experiments, they could have created their own experimental farm and kept it hush-hush -- why generate all the mystery and attract all the attention?

I'd almost say the same for aliens. After all, they could just take a single cell off a cow, and grow all the sexual organs they need in test tubes.

Other than farmers cutting up their own cattle to collect insurance, I can't come up with any reasonable explanation (and I know the one I just offered doesn't sound too convincing...)

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I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited July 05, 1999).]

[Spadge]

Well Boris……… It seems that you are not entirely happy with your own answer. I have to admit I hope what you suggest is true as this is one mystery which fills me with a profound sense of unease. The trouble is an insurance scam does leave a lot of unanswered questions for me. I am pretty sure that you know that when these incisions are viewed under a microscope they show definite effects of high heat being applied to the surrounding tissue. How can this be? Are all the researchers getting this fact wrong? It seems very difficult to believe they are.

Let's examine the clues we do have with these cases. For anybody else reading this who is not aware of these cases I’ll quickly outline the other typically reported facts.

The cuts appear to have been made with some kind of surgical laser and the carcass is often said to have been drained of blood. UFOs are often sighted just before cases appear. A bloodless carcass left with signs of high heat damage. Typically the rectum has been cored out and the sexual organs and tissue from the head is missing. No hoof prints can be found around some animals which suggests that they have been dropped from the air. Some appear to have impacted the ground in a way that reinforces this idea. Sightings of mysterious black helicopters, some which witnesses have said have made no sound. Also, the fact that despite intense investigations over many years by law enforcement agencies nobody have ever been charged with any offence despite the thousands of killings.

You have to admit that if you apply the principle of Occam's Razor here we are left with a potentially chilling possibility.

By the way, I know I dare not mention the Chupacabras! Not yet anyway! lol....

[Raebeth]

I dont think this has anything to do with UFOs. More likley its some satanic ritual thats using the UFO thing as a cover. There was a case reported in our local journal, but it was all put down to the local gangs.

[Boris]

You know, I just had the most amazing idea.

What if the UFO's are actually life-forms? I mean, some kind of interdimensional, energy-rich, flying balls of fire, feeding on cattle rectums (that part does sound a tad strange, though... :D) Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out.

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I am; therefore I think.

[Dave]

Maybe spaceships are AI's and are fascinated with the fact that we waste so much of our intake of energy supplies? I base this on their ability to convert 100% efficiency of fuel, of course! What better place to look for data than the fuel conversion waste output tube... :) LOL
Before I renounce you as a skeptic Boris, are you talking terrestial or extraterestial life-forms?
Regards,
dave.
<bgsound src="http://www.expack.com/Cow.wav" loop="1">

[This message has been edited by Dave (edited July 06, 1999).]

[Spadge]

Raebeth

I really can't believe that all these thousands of deaths have been caused by satanists. I don't doubt that some of these deaths have been put down to people like this as in your local journal, but why after all these years has no one ever been charged? Human beings nearly always leave some trace. On many occasions pastures have been staked out by famers only for them to find a dead cow in the morning. More baffling still, is the fact that it appears to be some kind of laser that is making the cuts. A power supply for a laser like this would of an extremely large size. Much too big for anybody to lug around fields at night. It does not make sense.

Boris

The cow noise on your posting was most amusing. However, I was in work at the time and I got some very odd looks from people. I think they thought it was me.

That's one way out idea as well. I do hope you're not serious.



[This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 08, 1999).]

[Dave]

oops!...that was me mooing.....sorry for the embarrasement Spadge. Blaim it on Chinese food. I don't know how many sickies I took using that excuse!! LOL

Perhaps different E.T.'s have different agendas. Maybe they don't all have a galactic monthly board meeting and discuss progress reports and swap ideas and findings. Maybe some are not as advanced as we think - as has been suggested elsewhere, and laser removal is as medically advanced as they've gotten? Big deal, so they have great transport systems. Does that make them smarter? A fish can breathe under water - does that make them smarter than us?
Regards,
Dave.

[Raebeth]

I agree Dave. Maybe their technology isn't more advanced, maybe it's just different.

[Blacktubby]

I think there is a bit too many people saying that the cutting is done by a "laser". Can I see your sources. I'm curious to see who studied the animals. Was it a UFOlogist?

As the below article mentions, many cattle die, however, there are not thousands of mysteriously similar deaths. Most of them turn out to be merely the work of predators.

I'll admit, as a layman I am impressed by the baffling scientific jargon of the autopsy reports. eg,

"The cuts were made rapidly, probably in two minutes or less, because there is no inflammatory cell destruction which typically begins in a few minutes after any trauma to tissue."

I am however, unimpressed by the lack of evidence and of credibility consistently displayed. Why do all the most convincing and remarkable accounts have no substantiation? This is especially surprising considering how much the believers have to gain through the preservation of firm evidence.

The skeptics dictionary posted a fine article on the subject. I won't bother posting it here, but the URL is:
http://www.skepdic.com/cattle.html

Thoughts?

Blacktubby,
"If you want to believe, you always will."

[Spadge]

Blacktubby

Remember, we are not the livestock experts here. The ranchers are the ones that are saying that this is not the work of predators.

By the way Blacktubby, I for one do not wish to believe that aliens are killing cattle, but I find it very hard to believe that this is due to predators.

[This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 12, 1999).]

[Soup Dragon]

I'm with Boris on this one. Why would advanced ETs need to make such public displays of their presence if they (supposidly) are concealing their presence? Take one gender of each species from the southern hemisphere, and the other gender from the northern, and no one is any the wiser. Dump the bodies on a far off planet, in the ocean, or shred them to save raising suspicions. I'm sure we'd think of it if we were in the same boat/saucer.

[Blacktubby]

Spadge,
I was not disagreeing with everything you said. I was, however, challenging the position held by a large percentage of believers. (That Aliens cause the mutilations.)

Again, like UFO sightings, most of these thousands of cattle mutilations can be attributed to very easily identifiable things. Pranksters, natural predators, insects etc. Because the cause of some of these mutilations is not readily identifiable, does not mean they are paranormal occurrences.

Blacktubby

[Spadge]

Blacktubby

You're not really disagreeing with anything I said. I just don't know what to make of all this. I find it all completely baffling. It's hard to separate fact from fiction sometimes to get to what's really going on.

[This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 13, 1999).]

[kareng]

Spadge and everyone,
I hope you don't mind if I join in on this conversation. I find the topic of animal mutilations to be very unsettling. I think the mutilations are being done by extraterrestrials. The government may or may not be involved. I don't think we can begin to understand why the aliens are mutilating cattle and various other animals. One of the reasons why I think ETs are involved is that these cattle are found in areas where there are no footprints. I don't think the aliens want to be seen abducting the animals but once in awhile it happens. If you have read accounts of persons who have seen UFOs, often the UFO shoots straight up and out of sight. The ETs' flight capability usually keeps them from being seen when these animals are being taken. As far as why they take the animal parts that they do, I personally think (and I'm no expert!) that there are certain things that occur at the cellular level within these various body parts. The National Institute of Discovery Science is doing a good job at investigating these phenomena. http://www.accessnv.com/nids Have any of you read "Mysterious Valley" by Chris O'Brien? There is one case that he writes about that I'll never forget. This is long so I'll stop here.

[Spadge]

Kareng

I've never read this book but I assume it's written about the mysterious San Luis Valley. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the case where a woman claims to have seen a calf being levited up into a UFO in a beam of light? Hmmm..you have to wonder if them pesky cattle knappers were caught red handed on that occasion.


Soup Dragon

If UFOs are alien craft then I personally don't see that they are particularly bothered about keeping their presence secret. The large aerial fleets of these things above Mexico in particular and other such displays recently over Arizona and Australia are hardly what you would call clandestine. Maybe ETs simply don't care about leaving dead cows around the place as us humans cannot do a thing about it anyway.

Whatever the cause of these mutilations I would like to know how these animals are being killed in the first place?



[This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 14, 1999).]

[kareng]

Spadge, "The Mysterious Valley" is about the San Luis Valley. The book is loaded with interesting paranormal cases including cattle mutilation. (O'Brien now has a book out called "Enter the Valley.") The case that I'll never forget is only mentioned briefly by a former sheriff from the area. They discovered a mutilated "humongous" bull in an old abandoned cabin. It was on top of a table! The sheriff said that he had no idea how a 1900 lb bull could have been carried into the cabin and lifted onto a table. It was a feat that 10 men could not have accomplished. The case was never solved. There was a case of an abducted elk in Washington state a few months ago. A large group of forestry workers saw it happen. The case is found at The National UFO Reporting Center. Let me know if you need the url.

[Soup Dragon]

Spadge,
It sounds like you should take a look at the San Luis Valley mystery. Have look and report back. If theres a paranormal/ET experience to have, it's had it! :(
http://shell.rmi.net/~tmv/Welcome.html

This sounds like a good thread topic on its own!!

[Boris]

Then there is this wild theory I've heard of. Basically, it states that the aliens could be purposefully doing things that make no sense. The purposelessness of their actions is perhaps meant to convey a message (e.g. not everything has a logical explanation, you bozos!), or it may be to see how we as a civilization respond to totally screwy events.

Or maybe there's no aliens, we are all subprograms within a massive computer simulation, and the 'phenomena' are bugs in the code ;)

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I am; therefore I think.

[Soup Dragon]

Let's just hope the program doesn't hang!

[H-kon]

<CTRL><ALT><DEL> LMAO :D

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"All i say is keep looking".

[kareng]

Boris,
If I let my imagination run wild I come up with the following theory. What if the aliens were clones? They have been cloning themselves for centuries. Then they realize that there is something inherently wrong with the cloning process. Something they didn't see in the centuries past. And now it has manifested itself and the aliens are dying. Now they are racing against time. They must find a way to correct for this flaw in the cloning process. They must go back to the old ways. But there is a huge gap of biological information that is missing or mangled. They must use other life forms to help fill in this missing information. They must adapt this information into something they can use.

[Mid12am]

Kareng.

Did you by anychance rent Jurrasic park last night?

<jk>


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(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

[Aloysius]

When I was at Oxford, one night we went out to a small eating house in the depths of the countryside to clandestinely eat swan. In England, all swans belong to the Queen, and this is strictly illegal. All of which provides a model for these mutilations...

It's the RGCP (Rogue Gourmet Chefs of the Pleiades). Despite strict rules to the contrary, they are popping over here (through private wormholes hidden under their kitchen floors) to bring back "otherwise unobtainable delicacies" to those of their clientele with extravagant tastes and means.

Trust me on this.

[Spadge]

That's a load of bull!

But I found it most a-moo-sing

[kareng]

I'm on a mailing list that includes a woman who believes missing persons are being turned into food for aliens. She also believes abductees are providing some sort of nourishment to the aliens. I have been wanting to ask her if abductees/missing persons are the main course or just a side dish. Since the woman seems to have had some really bad experiences I've decided to hold my tongue. Hee.

[Andromeda]

Whoever is taking these ranchers stock must be wanting to use large amounts of blood for something. Otherwise why would these carcasses be drained. It’s all too much trouble. They also must be doing it somewhere else because you’d have blood on the ground around the cow. Inside a saucer perhaps?

[kareng]

Andromeda,
I read somewhere on the net that the 21st chromosome of humans is identical to the 21st chromosome of bovines (cows). I wonder if this fact is important to why cattle are being mutilated.

[Andromeda]

I heard that the US government are testing animalos for radioactivity in the area after the bomb tests in the 50's. They have to keep it covert in case of alarm. Imagine if yiou found that where you lived was radioactive. You would not hang around would you?

[Xeno]

Hello everyone,
Don't mind if I join in on this conversation.
It's interesting to read what goes on
here. As for Andromeda, I'll try not
to go blabing around "Crap" as you
call it.

Kareng,
I don't want you to start thinking badly
of me so I'm going to go cautiously along
here as I type. I believe that Ufos do
exist, but as for aliens, I have to
disagree with that.
Although it is a possibility that creatures
may have come here from alternate dimensions
or universes, I find it hard to believe
that an alien civilization is communicating
with our goverment. Although such a race
may have came here through a warpage in
space or something, the odds of a race
of aliens existing in our galaxy with
an appearence similair to ours is unlikely.

As for animal mutilations, I am not
going to try to explain how they happen.
However, I would rather have to think
that these mutilations are moreoverly
based on natural causes than alien
experimentations.

Andromeda,
Interesting on what you have to say
there about the goverment keeping
covert about people living in radioactive
areas. Good thing its not happening
anywhere remotely where I live.
I live up near Vancouver, Canada, just
on the border, I don't have to worry.

-Dan

[kareng]

Xeno,
You have a right to your opinion, but I have to say that I disagree with what you think. How could something naturally occurring leave clean cuts on the animal? Scavengers or predators would leave ragged edges along the "wound" not clean cauterized incisions. What naturally occurring disease would cause the animal to lose all of it's blood? How does a steer or cow die like this by itself? If someone terrestrial kills these animals why are there no footprints? You have a right to your opinion but I ask respectively, can you back it up?

[Soup Dragon]

Personally I believe it's just a natural phenomena. Like when it rains frogs.. Cows and other animals get picked up by strong winds, suffer a horrific death from being struck by lightning while in the air (making small laser type holes in them) the blood is lost to the winds, and then they simply drop out of the sky wherever the wind takes them.

I'm leaving now for foreign climates, never to return. I just thought I'd better straighten you all out on this one before I go.

Knife, knife, stein, hah..!

[Yin Yang]

For anyones attention...The Soup Dragon is a full time debunker...He is here simply to throw a spanner in the works. Do not read his postings....His remarks go down like a lead balloon, and he likes nothing more than to shoot his mouth off. Give him enough rope and he will hang himself.
Soup dragon will antagonise people and twist the knife at any oppertunity...He waxes lyrical, and burns both ends of lifes candle.
Do not reply to him, or be goaded by him.

[Soup Dragon]

I knew that would trigger a response..! Tied you up in knots with my cutting insight. This thread is getting on your wick I see..

You haven't got a clue..
Doh..!!!

[Xeno]

Kareng,
you misunderstood what I said by
"I would rather think animal mutilations
to be of natural causes rather than
something of alien being."
First off, I believe animal mutilations
to be real. However, my belief is that
it has nothing to do of alien
origen.
Most likely it is the U.S. goverment.
Have you ever thought that perhaps
these cows and animals were drained
of blood for experiment perposes?
Even so, the goverment today is hiding
away technology we can't even think
of. Back in the early 1900s, did people
think that there would be such things
as computers common in every household?
At that time, no one thought of the
internet's existence.
The goverment is most likely hiding away
fusion bombs or anti-gravity propulsion
devices. That would mean that the goverment
could have found ways to specially
experiment with cows through mutilation.

As for the existence of Alien Intelligence,
I remain adamant to my opinions standing.
the only reality that I can believe
involving them is that they are from
an alternate reality.

There's lots to think about here.

-Dan

[kareng]

Xeno,
I'm sorry that I misunderstood your post. However, I still believe the mutilations are being done by aliens. I don't have any solid proof. It's just what I believe. Perhaps the military or black government is involved. I don't know. I read somewhere on the net about a theory that ties in well with your view. One man believes the mutilations are being done by our government to test for Mad Cow disease. It is an interesting theory but I don't agree with it. What do you think?