The "shape" of the universe

So, I was contemplating the shape of the universe and had a thought I would like feedback on.

I have often contemplated the theory that black holes were "new" universes. This has some really interesting aspects. For instance it allows for the initial singularity to still exist as the initial singularity before the big bang. We then exist within one or more generations of universes formed after (and within) the initial singularity.

Anyway, one of the problems I have always had with this theory is the fact that there should then be a "center"; the initial singularity within which's event horizon we exist. And as of yet, there is no evidence of such. However, then I started thinking about it, I wondered how space within a black hole curves back in upon itself. Since it is this space through which light propagates...we would be seeing light that curves back in upon itself...therefore, the residual background radiation which appears to be a bubble 6 mil ly distant is actually the surface of the singularity being bent back to us...So when we look out, we are really seeing the center of the universe. There would not be an "edge" because space curves back to the center no matter which direction you look.

I realize that a singularity by definition has no diameter or surface area, but still the idea intrigued me...who knows what physics may govern the space in the immediate vicinity of a singularity...perhaps the variation of the BMR is due to interference caused by the light itself or intense gravitational tidal forces...? The universe in accelerating due to an increase in energy of the black hole in which we exist, or if things are reversed (outside in or vice versa) perhaps the black hole is evaporating and loosing energy therefore loosening the cage in which we are trapped. Then of course you have dark matter...that effects our universe, but does not appear detectable...perhaps it is the universe in which our black hole exists (so outside our universe) acting upon the matter trapped with the black hole (our universe)...okay, I am just tossing out ideas and thoughts...perhaps someone brighter than myself can look at my ideas and provide criticism...for better or worse, it is just an idea...Thanks.

- KitNyx

 

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some of what you wrote is confusing, you should proof read your posts before submitting them.

notwithstanding, I like your idea of dark matter being gravitational forces from outside our universe. there are some theories that predict gravitons could slip through dimensions. maybe dark matter is the result.

 

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I did proof it, but I have image in my mind that was having trouble converting to words...you should have tried reading it before...anyways, where is it confusing, I will attempt to clarify?

- KitNyx

 

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I think you forgot to delete part of it.

this is just hard to follow, and that is supposed to be existing right, not evisting?

 

Right...so sorry, hold on. Thanks.

- KitNyx

 

KitNyx. Yes Physics, Astrophysics and Cosmology can be very confusing when you read all the different theories about the universe that scientists have come up with and amended and added on to in the last 20 years. It seems that nothing is really real any more. (remember the good old days when Newton and Einstein were the only people we had to understand) If you really want to get confused, pick up a copy of the latest Scientific American. There is an article about mass. It seems that mass is no longer the intrinsic property of matter as we ones thought, it is (aparently) something that is caused by elementary particles interacting with the Higs Field, and if scientists can only find the Higs Boson - which they have been looking for the last 6 years - they will be able to explain everything. So stay tuned.

REGARDS APOLO

 

perhaps space is the surface of a 4D sphere. then there would no center or edge, and gravity could be explained as inertia of objects as the surface expands like to balloon accelerating in its expansion.

just a thought. moreover, I am a bit skeptical of this Higs boson.

 

As I understand it, the universe is shaped like some 4-D sphere, recently "proven" in the same study that gauged its age at 13.7 billion years old. I don't have the technical knowledge to understand the mathematics behind the study, but assuming it's valid, it has implications for how the universe functions, expands, and its future.

If space were a sphere in the classical sense, then it simply means the universe is enclosed in a finite sphere. In this case, the BMR might be radiation coming off this border between spacetime and whatever lies beyond--hyperspace, nothingness, etc. However, this sphere shape seems to imply more of a 4-D spherical shape, a space that "curves in upon itself" as you put it. In this case, the model of the universe becomes far more complex. Theoretically, it becomes possible to return to where you started if you travel far enough in such a universe...then a star would eventually be shining light upon itself? Apparently the universe isn't old enough for an anomaly like that to occur.

At any rate, assuming a 4-D sphere shape has implications for how the universe develops. It will not be part of some "big crunch" despite the cuteness of the idea for sci-fi flicks. Instead, the universe's expansion will fall off and flatten out, leading to the "open" universe fate.

As for the nature of dark matter, if one buys into string theory, it may be all configurations of strings in spacetime that don't cause matter, antimatter, energy, or forces--in short, all of the "extra" strings in the universe. In more classical physics, dark matter may simply be thick folds in the space of the universe. I see space as hardly uniform over large distances--I imagine it looks spongy, riddled with wormholes, strange warps and deep folds--a convoluted sphere, if you will. This, of course, is pure speculation.

 

Hum,
the word on the street is that it`s shaped like a pichard horn.

 

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but didn't this theory also predict, that the sum of the three angles of a triangle, which is 180 degrees in everyday experience, would turn out to be different from 180 degrees, if we had a triangle large enough to be effected by the curvature of the universe? But the measurments made today aren't precise enough to detect that difference from 180 degrees and evaluate the size and curvature of the universe.

 

Well, to have a shape, things need boundries, but since there are none, there are no real shapes. Space can be curved, but it can't have a shape.

 

Pretend you chinese fo 1 minute:

You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can crash, drip, flow...be water my friend."
-- Bruce Lee

 

since there isn't realy anything beyond our universe, that is in my opinon, space-time wouldn't need a shape there's nothing outside to constrict it or stop it's movement. then there are theories that the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light and that the universe we observe is just catching up in which case we arrive at the question that scientists are pondering over about the overall energy density of the universe.

i think thats right but i don't know. Please correct me whereever i am wrong.

 

It;s shaped like a something, that I know.

 

I wouldn't say that that is the word on the street,the "horn Universe" is only pursued by a minority, actually the idea that the universe has infinite volume and extends equally in all directions, and consequently doesn't have a "shape", has more followers

 

Don't believe the scientific hype.

Forget the theories, go with facts. In fact, it is safer and easier to understand the universe if you deny the theories. Examples: There is no Higgs Field. There is no Boson. There is no space-time. There is no speed of light. Time is not natural. There is no 4th dimension. There is no relativity at all. There is no graviton. See? Once you peel back the theories like layers of an onion you begin to see the facts of science. Concentrate on the facts and leave the theories to theoretical scientists. There should be enough facts to keep you busy for a lifetime.

Here is a theory about the shape of the universe: It is egg shaped. Why not? Get the point? Anyone can have an idea. Ideas become theories. So what! 10,000 people may be wrong, some of them may be highly educated, wealthy, and at the top of the food chain. Means nothing. The light is shining in the darkness. Now that is important!

The universe is a personal experience. There is only one universe and this is it. Here is my math: The universe equals infinity and eternity and existence plus the imaginary. Only something that exists in the universe can have a shape. The universe is bigger than shape.

 

If there's no Higgs field, how the hell particles acquire mass?
If you don't have theories, then you have to rely in hunches and feelings. This is not good. It reminds me to religion

 

Particles acquire mass due to gravitational collisions, and are bound by the electromagnetic force.

 

Yes you maybe are correct in that...
But with Picard topology, space is finite- as in keeping with big bang theory - but wrapped in an unusual way.
The horn can be `filled up` with a finite cubic units of, say, `paint`, but an infinite number of square units of paint are needed to cover its surface.

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if it were wrapped in this way it could explain the elongated microwave background radiation blobs that are seen.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4879

 

You have seen the Hubble pictures, and you still think the universe is finite? I would say you have reached the limits of your devices. Maybe they should not have named it the Hubble. String theory, Higgs field, the boson, the graviton, singularities, space-time, the whole bunch is poppycock. You can now look out and see a mighty section of the universe. Isn't that enough for you? Why would you speculate on what it is not? The horn shaped universe my eye. Useless drivel. There was a first cause and the universe is infinite. Get over it.