Down with sock puppets

Ok.
There is a question as to whether or not open government actually serves any purpose whatsoever anymore. Let's test it. This is an idea that should pass, I suspect, as long as there is enough interest so that a quorum is achieved that is. And that is not a given, I'll give you that.

Anyway. We all know that some members of our little community delight in playing games with sock puppets. I'm not naming names but I suspect several and I'm sure others here have their own suspicions from time to time.

I say it's time to stand up and do something about them. Ban them. No matter who it is that is behind the mask.

Now. First of all, there are difficulties behind this. As it is possible that several people log in from the same ip address from a school or a home. So there should be some type of a mechanism for appeal. But, this appeal should be public so that people will be aware that there might be some suspicion of complicity between two users. That they may be one person behind two masks.

Another difficulty would be that there are ways to falsify one's ip address. And this would be impossible to deal with, I'm afraid. Anyone savvy enough to do this is just too savvy to be dealt with openly like this. So there will always remain the possibility of some sock puppet usage. However, I feel that most aren't willing or able to use an anonymizer site in this way. Another difficulty in ip addresses would be dial up users that change their ip address with each log on.

I imagine that there are other difficulties as well. However, most of them seem to fall on the side of leniency. Allowing puppets to slip through the cracks and not the other direction, persecuting innocent people unjustly.

There will always remain the threat of sock puppets and we'll just have to live with it, however some kind of rule against their use would cut down on the games that people play, I should think. I should hope.


I should add that perhaps there should be some type of abuse that would instigate banning. If people create a sock puppet but don't post with it or post sparingly, perhaps it can be overlooked. But, I suspect that the mechanics of enforcement will see to this without need of a specific clause about it. Moderators won't be (or shouldn't be) proactive about seeking sock puppets. They shouldn't just indiscriminately start scanning ip addresses in search of sock puppets. But they should follow hunches or user requests that arise from time to time about specific individuals.



So. What say you?

Yay or nay?
Let's get rid of them.


One last thing. Perhaps another avenue of discussion and perhaps a second vote would be punishment. A form of scarlet letter. Perhaps if a user is found to be wielding a sock puppet army then his/her name should be made public so that we can scorn him/her for the games that people play.


Oh. One last thing. When I say ban them. I don't mean ban them all. They should be allowed one user as their primary user. They just shouldn't be allowed all the pseudonyms.

 

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My sock puppet got banned straight away... I think, wait a second.

 

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Yep, Barry Turd is unable to log in

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Even so, I voted no.

 

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Don’t you have something better to occupy your time with?

Isn’t gendanken somewhere posting where you can casually drop in on?
You know what I hated, hallway monitors and teachers pets.

All kinds of finger pointers irk me.

 

Wanderer,

What?
Finger pointing? If anything it would seem that you're pointing the finger at yourself. I made a general statement. (I predict that you'll now say that your statement was general as well and that now I am finger pointing by this last statement. Wily bastard.)

I'd think that you'd be all for the idea seeing as how you seem to enjoy pointing fingers yourself about sock puppets. But. That's all part of the fun, isn't it? For you. Is that it?


Lou,

Goofyfish has banned sock puppets before for the sole reason that they were sock puppets, but he's arbitrary about it. A rule on the matter would be better than arbitrary action or inaction.

 

What annoys you about sock puppets anyways? You never tried it?

 

An interesting question and one that I've pondered for a while.

In the novel Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, the hero's siblings, Peter and Valentine, create alter egos so that they could become politically active while still in their childhood. They had each had a main alter ego, Locke and Demosthenes, but they also created various other 'sock puppets' in order to create what would basically be threads (this was written in 85 when the internet was only a wet spot in DARPA's underwear) which were manipulated by planned responses from the various pseudonyms. If a real person entered the conversation, they would either ignore them altogether or they would give them a stock response prepared beforehand for one of their alter egos, slightly modified to fit the exact response.

Peter and Valentine did this for a purpose. To take over the world. And they succeeded. I suppose one could say that for such purposes that this manipulation might actually be worthwhile. I still find it distasteful as it is inherently dishonest. But at least a purposeful deception has some mitigating factors.

But. The sock puppets that play in here are not purposeful in such a way. They are generally disruptive and are only for 'fun'. If you want to be disruptive then be a man about it and use your main identity while doing so.

I hate liars. And sock puppets are the epitome of liars.

 

Oh. And I want to add a clause to my proposal. It has been suggested by the good Dr. Lou in another thread that I've made this thread in response to Wanderer's creation of 'alter ego'. Nothing could be farther from the truth. In actuality, it was John Smith who provoked this action. He of the many commas (instead of apostrophes).

The truth is that I don't have a problem with his creation of alter ego because he was open about it. There is no deception in the matter. I still find it stupid but it's not what I'm speaking against with this thread.

So. I'd add a clause that states the only sock puppets to be banned are those which are not openly identified as another member.

 

Not really... I had to be able to know unquestionably that it was a sock puppet. Porf has since decided that he has no issues with sock puppets, so I have not pursued it unless it was a problem member using a sock puppet to get around a banning.

Obviously, but for the record, I personally don't care for SPs either.

:m: Peace.

 

What is a sock puppet? having multiple usernames?

 

Yes.

 

lol.... wasn't there already a thread about this before?

I realize that I might confuse you, Invert Nexus. I know you think I'm really Wanderer, but I'm not. I'm just a guy named Bob. There's one in every forum.

Besides, sock puppets are quite harmless. The ability to play Devil's advocate is a crucial philosophical skill. Arguing against them might even be more educational and fun than arguing against the real thing.

(even in the case that a person argues against himself).

 

In the world where your senses lie to you constantly, in the world where you rely on lies of perception for survival, what is the value of truth and how do you plan to deal with billions of "truths" that walk this planet? Do not hate liars and quit the Christian self-hate.

Puppets conceal my presence and allow me to show different faces I posess.

Allow me to calm you, no puppet on this forum planned to take over the world or this forum by such means

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I've been told there was a sock puppet controlled by several members. That must have been fun.

Also, I agree with Bob.

 

Bob,

Meh. I don't know if you're a puppet or not. I have my suspicions, but they waver. If you are, at least you're an intelligent one. Unlike some others that I've seen. Now, if you'd made a habit of posting threads such as your fleshy brain organ thread it'd be another story.

It's kinda funny that Wanderer is also highly suspicious of you. All his "...Bob"'s. Bring a smile to my face each time.

I suppose that sock puppets are harmless. But I find them distasteful.

 

That was a heaping dose of sarcasm and irony, not sock-puppetry.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=42684

I'm quite sure there's a smile on his face when he writes it. Maybe a sardonic, twisted smile, but a smile nonetheless.

Sock puppets might be tasteful or not, depending on the puppet. I would agree with you that if a single user had a hundred puppets it might clog up the forum, but that's unrealistic. It takes too much time.

 

Plexus,

Hmm.
Plexus. Rhymes with Nexus.
Should have called yourself covert_plexus. Or am I being paranoid?
Paranoid, I'm sure. You registered a month ago.

This is true. Certainly. We can never be sure of any perception. We see through the mirror darkly. And we can hardly expect the world to play 'fair' and always maintain an honesty in tune with my sensibilities.

The problem is, of course, one of distaste. I don't like such frivolous deception. It serves no greater purpose. Nothing but fun and games. As I said, I'd be more ok with the idea if the purpose of the puppet was to take over the world. At least that would have some mitigating value. You know?

One. I'm not christian and never have been.
Two. I don't hate myself. This is not an issue of self-hate. (Interesting interpretation though.)
Three. Hate is perhaps a bit too strong of a word. It implies a more... compulsive emotion than that which is actually present. Distaste describes it best. I find it... dirty (which is another poor choice of words. Leads also to thoughts of Christian repression.)
Hmm.

Bob does make a good point on devil's advocate, but...
Ok. Here's the thing.
Knowledge.
I am in love with knowledge.
Some have a will to power. I have a will to knowledge. I'm not going to get into a semantical discussion on knowledge vs. wisdom here, but suffice it to say that what I'm talking about is a combination of knowing and understanding. Ok?
So. Knowledge is served by honesty. Through not hiding things. Through open and blunt discussion. It is from this that my distaste for the deception comes from.

However, there is another aspect to the pursuit of knowledge. The pursuit itself. And in this the deception can actually be a useful tool in that it provides both a whetstone upon which to sharpen the ability to discern patterns. It keeps one sharp and on edge.

So. There is a sense of discord between the extremes of this primal pair.
And I'm unsure which to satisfy.

You see. No matter if this rule passes or not, there will still be methods available for sock puppets to manifest. What this would be doing is making it more difficult for them.
So. By extension of the second argument of my discord, this rule would make the sock puppets more effective. It would whet them upon the stone of adversity, so to speak.

Hmm.

And who is the face behind the mask? I wonder...

Anyway. I have multiple aspects to my personality as well. But I am content to display them all in underneath a single user name. In this way my username becomes effectively... me. I don't split myself and limit myself. Making of myself a two-dimensional 'character'.

Popeye said it best when he said, "I am what I am and that's all what I am."

Don't be so sure about that...
Well. I guess I'm not a puppet.
(Kidding. I don't want the world. I just want to understand it.)

A will to fun?

Of course you do...
...Bob.


Bob,

It's called an ass-penny. Asshole.
(I hated you for it because you ridiculed my favorite subject.)

It's the people with too much time on their hands that worry me.

 

lol! Yes, I suspect Plexus. He has only three posts... and he is intelligent, and posted here immediately which is weird for a new poster.

That's not always true. Knowledge can often be a mere illusion if you enter into a discussion with a preconceived idea of what you're looking for. Scientists have wasted their lives testing particles that didn't exist. The embrace of mystery, is key to truth. A revealing, an 'unconcealing', seeing a form coming out of darkness.

Ah, yes. But does it matter if nobody reads into 'you' in depth more than they would that two-dimensional character?

Anyone with a personality to them eventually gets discovered. Those who don't, it doesn't matter one shit.

lol!

Only because I care, Nexus. Only because I care.

 

The situation with members using multiple aliases is truly shameful and disgusting.

I, personally, believe it’s a product of minds that lack the personality to be themselves and so resort to alternative methods of hiding who they are or can’t be.

Truly abhorrent behaviour. All of them should be banned.

In particular goofyfish should be banned, because we all know it’s really invert_nexus behind that alias.

They both share that ‘masked collaborator’ psychology and the large mouth of the class nerd stuck on rules and authority, we all remember from school.

Shame on you.

 

Curses. I've been found out.
But. At least you have the good sense to realize that the main persona is invert and not the fish.

By the way, why did you lose your title of Wanderer's Shadow? Because I made the statement that only puppets that don't openly display their connection to another username should be banned?
You wily bastard.

Seriously. You haven't acknowledged this, but this thread has nothing to do with you. Lou was wrong.

By the way, your 'class nerd' and school obsession is interesting. You mentioned this earlier with hall monitors and such.
You are a thirty something year old man aren't you? Are you really still caught up in grade school poliitics?


...Bob,

I more than suspect it. Plexus has pretty much confessed to being a puppet. The only question is who is it?

And I said as much when I dealt with the dual aspects. Not only the knowledge (remember, don't get bogged in semantics, I'm talking of a mix of understanding and knowledge) but also the pursuit of knowledge.

A tired old platitude states that if you give a man a fish he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. (If there's a body of water stocked with fish nearby, that is.)

The same goes for knowledge and is one of the things that is sadly lacking in our educational system.
The most important knowledge is the knowledge how to learn.

Not only the knowledge but the desire. The hunger. The need.

No. It doesn't matter. I'm not here for them.

 

I think Plexus is Invert_Nexus.

Its the perfect plan. Make a thread about sock puppets and then illustrate why there is a need to ban them by having one yourself.

And while he's at it, add an extra vote to the poll.

Actually if you think about it the word Plexus, meaning a network or some kind, is very close to the meaning of nexus. Nexus refers to the central connection of a network.

Is an plexus just an inverted nexus? Maybe. Or maybe just a nexus.

I'm on to you, Invert.