america's doom?

[weed_eater_guy]

the roman empire, the british empire, America? all states end, when's america's number up? and what kind of dish will it be served? nothing against this country, i love it, but inevitable fate's gonna catch up sometime! maybe in the next few centuries, maybe next week, who knows?

[-Bob-]

the roman empire, the british empire, America? all states end, when's america's number up? and what kind of dish will it be served? nothing against this country, i love it, but inevitable fate's gonna catch up sometime! maybe in the next few centuries, maybe next week, who knows?

This is getting old by now.

What the hell kind of point are you trying to make anyway?

Besides, the Roman and British empires are still alive and well, my man.

[CounslerCoffee]

Indeed, Bob. Very old. Please graduate from high school and come back again later.

Rome didn't have nukes, did it? Rome didn't have men on the moon and secret organizations that make the sun rotate the planet Earth? Did it? America has these Nazi-Planet-Rotators and we own the sun and we have nukes. America will be around for a while.

[android]

the roman empire, the british empire, America? all states end, when's america's number up? and what kind of dish will it be served? nothing against this country, i love it, but inevitable fate's gonna catch up sometime! maybe in the next few centuries, maybe next week, who knows?

It's going to become a third world country like Brazil or Mexico. God bless America.

But, weed will be legal.

:m:

[Gondolin]

Well as long as a harmful drug is legal, we'll all be ok.

[Sturm]

Wow, those that don't see the 5 trillion dollar debt and the 500 billion dollar deficit are.... well blind. Or those that do and think that the US can dig itself out are... well stupid. I do agree with the first post. America's time will come probably sooner than later I just wonder when and how. It'll be interesting to see. I hope not too many innocents will be hurt in the process.

[Neildo]

Well since some are using modern day technology to make it out as if the U.S. is so different from the Roman or British Empire, let's point to Mother Russia then. They were equal with us technology wise, and they lost a lot of their power. I don't see us ever fully crumbling like the Roman Empire, but we can become like Russia very easily. We'll remain as states, just as the D.S.o.A. - Divided States of America.

- N

[hotsexyangelprincess]

I dont really care. I'm enjoying my life as it is, and am pretty happy. :m:

[Simonbubly]

You are right, this is the decline of the American Empire, and its going to come as a huge shock to most of us, given the fact that we are all used to our fat fucking lives. we are not invinciable, and if history has proved anything it is that this is our time to decline.

[Maddad]

These other empires fell from corruption on the inside. They started out strong, but then the citizens got lazy, not wanting to pay the mandatory price for freedom: blood. Rome hired outsiders to do their fighting for them so that their citizens would not have to.

If America falls any time soon from it's current status, it will be because we talked ourselves into believing that fighting the spread of tyrany, such as was in Iraq, is not necessary.

[Neildo]

They started out strong, but then the citizens got lazy, not wanting to pay the mandatory price for freedom: blood.

The citizens got lazy not wanting to fight for freedom? Oh my friggin God. You honestly think the British and Roman Empires were doing what they were doing for freedom!? They simply wanted to take over the world. THAT was the reason, not for freakin freedom, you son of Bush. You two think just the same. Sorry man, but that’s just SAD! Your nickname "fiercly right" fits perfectly.

- N

[spuriousmonkey]

The US will crumble when US citizens are so fat, they can't get out of their chairs anymore one morning to go to work so they can buy more burgers. They will die of thirst in 10 days.

all of them...

[Gondolin]

I do agree. Alot of Americans are fat. We have become a lazy bunch.

[jennyRater]

We'll start losin our influence seriously when the Indians + chinese begin stealin our young brains in earnest, givin them a job market were you got real chances instead of havin to get experience before you can hav your 1st proper job... a stgnant economy here wil become a closed shop, peole will go elsewere, and the fat old boys at the top will sit drinkin bourbon until they realise theyve lost too much busines to the forieigners.

[TruthSeeker]

We'll start losin our influence seriously when the Indians + chinese begin stealin our young brains in earnest, givin them a job market were you got real chances instead of havin to get experience before you can hav your 1st proper job... a stgnant economy here wil become a closed shop, peole will go elsewere, and the fat old boys at the top will sit drinkin bourbon until they realise theyve lost too much busines to the forieigners.
The foreigners work for them...... :eek:

[jennyRater]

Not all foreigners do. business people in other countrys want to compete with the US if they can, not serve it.. isnt that why we've got Bollywood films today, not made in english, as well as MGM + miramax?

[TruthSeeker]

Ha! Bollywood.... what a ridiculous name....... :rolleyes:
Well, yeah, not all foreigners work for them. However, most of the people that work for them are foreigners. That is why they are called multinationals, ya know? ;)

[exsto_human]

Bollywood.

The Bombay dream.

Ah innocent, yet furtive.

Back to the bom, back to the bom, back to the bom!

I predict that soon instead of the khabalistic illuminati pulling the strings of old uncle "Nuke 'em" Sam, it will be a kali worshiping kundalini-death-cult.

[TruthSeeker]

Yeah, well....

If they want an alternative to hollywood, they might as well be creative....
Geeezz..... :rolleyes:

[jennyRater]

even if someon else gets more powerful, We americans wil always have a place in the world + no one will forget hollywood or coke orApollo..

[exsto_human]

Well, if the whole continent is sunk by nuclear retaliation America won't have a place in the world.

No but seriously, once society falls concepts such as 'America' will be long forgotten dreams.

And it will fall. :p

[TruthSeeker]

...."dream"....? :rolleyes:

[Clockwood]

When we fall, which I doubt will happen in my lifetime and probably not in my children's lifetimes, it won't be pretty for anyone. If you think we are bad now, you should try to imagine the states that would form out of our ruins. They would eat the world alive and I would root them on from my grave.

As I have said before, all the world should toast America long life at the start of every meal.

[invert_nexus]

The end of American ascendance is inevitable. Nothing lasts forever. We're all just lilies in the field. But, who can say when it will happen? Or why? Things are rarely clear while they're happening. It takes distance and objectivity to look back in time and realize that here, on this day, that was the day or this was the year. While it's happening we only see the chaos and confusion of life.


Simonbubly,


You are right, this is the decline of the American Empire

Maybe it's the decline of the American Republic and the rise of the American Empire. Ever consider that possibility?


and if history has proved anything it is that this is our time to decline.

Uh. Exactly how does history prove this?


JennyRater,


We'll start losin our influence seriously when the Indians + chinese begin stealin our young brains in earnest, givin them a job market were you got real chances instead of havin to get experience before you can hav your 1st proper job... a stgnant economy here wil become a closed shop, peole will go elsewere, and the fat old boys at the top will sit drinkin bourbon until they realise theyve lost too much busines to the forieigners.

Do you know why India and China are economic hotspots? Because they're so overpopulated that they can pay their workers next to nothing. As soon as the tide turns and their workers start feeling appreciated and start feeling that they should have worker rights and wages that actually can feed their families then their decline will begin.

In the modern economic era (and perhaps even in all eras before) the sweet spot for any economy is how much it is able to take advantage of its workers. Rome had slaves. England had virtual slaves. We have wage slaves but the majority of Americans have this funny idea that they should be able to support their families and stuff. Stupid right? I mean, what's more important? The worker or the company? Who should feed the family? The laborer or the CEO? Obviously each side feels that they should be the one to feed their own family, but it's the CEO's that have the strongest hand in the bargaining and trickery.

Anyway, I digress.
The ascendance of China and India is merely the first signs of their eventual fall. Such is life. And in the modern era, the time is accelerating. The Romans had a good 500 years as an empire. The British had a few centuries. Spain had a relatively short time in the sun (let's not forget her), but she fell because of chance. A freak weather occurrence that sunk her Armada and caused the ascendance of England.

All these past empires had centuries in which to grow, peak, and decline. In the modern era we have decades.

Information is a quickening of culture and the rise and fall of cultures is likewise quickened.


even if someon else gets more powerful, We americans wil always have a place in the world + no one will forget hollywood or coke orApollo..

Sure. We've served the world well being its kicking boy and I see no reason why that should change.

Kick me.

[kazakhan]

As I have said before, all the world should toast America long life at the start of every meal.
Because of clowns like you I, probably along with many others wish for the destruction of the USA as we know it whenever affronted with Americanism!

[Jaybee from his cast]

Therein lies the irony; at the apex of their powers, both the Roman and British empires had more justification for believing themselves invulnerable in light of their global circumstances than the US has now, yet the american people display an amazingly arrogant belief in their so-called supremacy.

However, America will always have a place in the world; 1 in 20 of the world's people are American.

The greatest threat to American dominance is from China, and even she will be challenged in the future by India. The next Cold war will occur between these two powers as both grow economically and militarily.

America's best strategy is to seduce both to it's own lifestyle.

We live in interesting times, of that there can be no argument.

[jennyRater]

All these past empires had centuries in which to grow, peak, and decline. In the modern era we have decades.

Information is a quickening of culture and the rise and fall of cultures is likewise quickened.

Good thing to. the Romans were too powerful + too stagnant for too long! it was well past time to give somone else a chance, like the Arabs.. then they spent centruries as the big power in the old world, but never had asn industrial revoluton. That was left to the Brits.. now its us.. maybe china next.. evveryone will have their turn it seems, until the whole worlds' advanced + rich + at peace. Since as you said things change much faster now, this can happen ASAP.

[Gambit Star]

^^^ I think spuriosmonkey makes the point of how america will go ^^^ hehe

[VossistArts]

Wow, those that don't see the 5 trillion dollar debt and the 500 billion dollar deficit are.... well blind. Or those that do and think that the US can dig itself out are... well stupid. I do agree with the first post. America's time will come probably sooner than later I just wonder when and how. It'll be interesting to see. I hope not too many innocents will be hurt in the process.


i have to agree. modern day rome is just what it is. the economy will likely fail at some point. its all fake anyways. all but the super rich will suffer. theyll retire abroad. thats probably what theyre preparing for now. bush seems hell bent on spending us into atrocious debt for the sake of shakey little 3rd world countries and so on.. fixing them by blowing them into economic ruin as well with a promise to rebuild them before considering what to do to rebuild us! he'll be long retired into luxury with his family from arabia or wherever the hell by then. maybe he'll watch rome fall on the satalite tv.

um .. like bill hicks said: sorry.. wrong meeting. i thought this was the meeting down at the docks...

[Clockwood]

Because of clowns like you I, probably along with many others wish for the destruction of the USA as we know it whenever affronted with Americanism!

Ah... so we have driven you and yours down the path of suicide? Wonderful.

And as to the comparisons with Rome, I would avoid them if I were you. The fall of Rome ushured in one of the darkest millenia in the history of man. And through it all, fragments of the old empire took root in the ashes.

[kazakhan]

Ah... so we have driven you and yours down the path of suicide? Wonderful.
1. No, I don't live in the US.
2. What I'm advocating is the destruction of the system, not the people.
Whilst the destruction of the US would more than likely affect me adversely I'd much prefer that than becoming a slave to the Global US Empire, which most of us already are :rolleyes:


The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will use RFID chips on a trial basis to track the arrival and return of visitors from abroad. The testing phase, which will begin this spring and is expected to last one year, will occur at selected points of entry across the U.S., and it will complement the current U.S.-VISIT scheme. (http://www.technewsworld.com/story/40203.html)
How long before your all chipped and tracked Clockwood, combined with the increasing proliferation of "Security" cameras no-one will have any privacy. But I'm sure you'll be happy that your secure ;)

[Clockwood]

Just al long as you know that we kill take you with us and whatever powers come up from the fragments left behind will plague your descendants for generations to come.

[jennyRater]

Just al long as you know that we kill take you with us and whatever powers come up from the fragments left behind will plague your descendants for generations to come.

right on!!

who says Bush is ruining the States for thesake of 3rd world places? theyre stil in huge debts to us. Canceling some debts of nations hit by teh tsunamis is charity, you cant say hes wrong there!

[kazakhan]

Just al long as you know that we kill take you with us and whatever powers come up from the fragments left behind will plague your descendants for generations to come.
I already said as much, I'd prefer an uncertain future... :cool:
I hope the US starts drafting for a war with Iran, things would get very interesting wouldn't they :D

[jennyRater]

interestng? Getting many people killed on b oth sides when theyre not realy threatening us?

Interesting that you see war that way, most of us dont.

[Clockwood]

Kazakhan: So... you would rather have a thousand years of cultural and technological regression, endless wars between every country and each of its neighbors, and the revival of oldtime superstition and barbaric practices? And after that, we would be right back where we are now.

[kazakhan]

Kazakhan: So... you would rather have a thousand years of cultural and technological regression, endless wars between every country and each of its neighbors, and the revival of oldtime superstition and barbaric practices? And after that, we would be right back where we are now.
Like it or not we're already on that path...

[suzukisfrog]

all empires are doomed, it's only a matter of time. for one reason, the haves become complacent & lazy while the have-nots are relentless in acquiring what they dont have.

[Clockwood]

Kazakhan: What barbaric practices would a dark age bring back? Well, slavery can come back into the open throughout the world. Now it occurs only in rare places where the world's eyes are obscured. We can bring back witch trials and perhaps another inquisition. That may happen in the ass end of the world in places like Africa or the Middle East, but people are locked up as nutjobs if they try to instigate something like that over here. Heck, they would probably just get laughed out of town. We can start having open warfare again like we did from prehistory to WW2. Perhaps we can even stick some heads on pikes.

Now doesn't that sound exciting?

[suzukisfrog]

Kazakhan: What barbaric practices would a dark age bring back? Well, slavery can come back into the open throughout the world. Now it occurs only in rare places where the world's eyes are obscured. We can bring back witch trials and perhaps another inquisition. That may happen in the ass end of the world in places like Africa or the Middle East, but people are locked up as nutjobs if they try to instigate something like that over here. Heck, they would probably just get laughed out of town. We can start having open warfare again like we did from prehistory to WW2. Perhaps we can even stick some heads on pikes.

Now doesn't that sound exciting?
yeah, the worlds eyes are obscured from those places which have slavery because...........it's convenient, ultimately there's no money in stopping it. somewhat related example: if that square in china was in havana & people were slaughtered wanting democracy we'd all be smoking cuban cigars by now.

[kazakhan]

Kazakhan: What barbaric practices would a dark age bring back? Well, slavery can come back into the open throughout the world. Now it occurs only in rare places where the world's eyes are obscured. We can bring back witch trials and perhaps another inquisition. That may happen in the ass end of the world in places like Africa or the Middle East, but people are locked up as nutjobs if they try to instigate something like that over here. Heck, they would probably just get laughed out of town. We can start having open warfare again like we did from prehistory to WW2. Perhaps we can even stick some heads on pikes.
Are you seriously trying to get me to change my point of view? If so it just isn't going to happen.
We've already got plenty of barbaric shit going on already. Most of us are pretty much already slaves. Witch trials like 'gitmo'? The US hasn't stop fighting since WW2 and they've had a go at quite a few nations, sounds like open warfare to me just a matter of time till everyone else is sucked in again. Video footage of decapitations is pretty much "heads on pikes" is it not? A lot are already living it......

[oparo]

It is usually those dictatorial countries like Germany under Hitler that come quickly to an end. Nobody likes to be told "You have to do as I tell you,or"!!!
But even in our time many leaders have not learned that lesson.

[jennyRater]

Most of us are pretty much already slaves. Witch trials like 'gitmo'? .....

Slaves? you mean to boses + companys? At least we're free nough in most countries to resign jobs if we want, we arent all forced to join the army either. we can choose who we marry, what we study, where we holidy and which tv shows to watch. slaves usualy didnt have any that.

witch trials though... yes. Anyone who ghets a rumour about them touching up kids is treated like a witch, and I bet alot of trials for child molestin are nowhere near fair.. :(

[duendy]

Slaves? you mean to boses + companys? At least we're free nough in most countries to resign jobs if we want, we arent all forced to join the army either. we can choose who we marry, what we study, where we holidy and which tv shows to watch. slaves usualy didnt have any that.

:(
"SLAVE: a persona held as property: an abject: one who is submissive under domination; one who is submissively devoted: one who has lost power of resistance: one who works like a slave: a drudge: a mechanism controlled by another mechanism....a master-slave mainpulator" (Chambers 20the Century Dictionary)

a mechanism controlled by another mechanism sums up our state quite brrutally accurately. The mechanicm is the mechansistic State&Science, and we are told we are mere biochemical machines whose only authentic purpose in life is to slave away at jobs we hate in order to keep this mechanism tickin over!

IF you dissent. you are labelled 'mentally ill'. the unlucy ones may find themselves forcibly incarcerated in lock-up institutions where all human rights are stripped away and one is forced to undergo
'treatment'. The rest are given 'meds' so as to atrophy any 'un-accptable' natrual HUMAN emotions

if that aint fukin slavery. what IS?

[glaucon]

IF you dissent. you are labelled 'mentally ill'. the unlucy ones may find themselves forcibly incarcerated in lock-up institutions where all human rights are stripped away and one is forced to undergo
'treatment'. The rest are given 'meds' so as to atrophy any 'un-accptable' natrual HUMAN emotions

if that aint fukin slavery. what IS?

That, is exactly the point. The real reason we are slaves is due to the fact that there are no alternatives to the system we find ourselves in. The structure has strictly delineated what is allowed. Deviance from this is either punished, or is simply co-opted by the system, reduced, and thereby made part of it. In this day and age there is no way to escape. Furthermore, those things we perceive as freedoms (being able to quit a job, freedom to speak your mind, etc.) are carefully 'administered' by the powers that be. Attempts to modify those 'freedoms' are arduous tasks that rarely succeed. Indeed, in many ways, we suffer a more dangerous enslavement than those who are physically restricted.

[kazakhan]

Slaves? you mean to boses + companys?
For the most part. Corporations must be done away with they rule our lives in many ways. Not to mention being bonded to your goverment to pay their debts to corporations.

At least we're free nough in most countries to resign jobs if we want, we arent all forced to join the army either. we can choose who we marry, what we study, where we holidy and which tv shows to watch. slaves usualy didnt have any that.
No we are not free enough! It's partially that type of attitude that is helping to erode our basic freedoms everyday. I'll bet soon enough plenty are forced into the armed services. As for the rest your choices in each are constrained by the system, depending on how far up the totem pole you are, so to speak. As for the slaves if they were still being used they probably would have a TV :D

[jennyRater]

[QUOTE=glaucon]The real reason we are slaves is due to the fact that there are no alternatives to the system we find ourselves in.QUOTE]

what system would you like then - anarky?

[TruthSeeker]

what system would you like then - anarky?
Wow...! That would be lovely!!!!

Yes, we are all slaves. I'm happy people realize that.... makes me feel less lonely...

[Clockwood]

I am not saying this is the Land of Oz. I am saying it is better this than the alternative.

You get to make an enormous number of lifestyle decisions today in comparison to any other time in history. You get to pick where to live, what you want to make a living at, who you want to marry and if you want to marry. You get to pick your religion or no religion. You actually get a bit of a say in who rules your country.

In most times and places, you would die a couple miles from where you were born doing whatever it was that your parents did. You were the state religion and disagreeing with your king or lord might mean your head. And these were the free men. Slaves and indentured servants had it much worse.

[TruthSeeker]

Almost anything is better than this...! :eek:
Anarchy is certainly waaaaaaaaaaayyy better than this....

[Clockwood]

True anarchy lasts for about five minutes. Then everything goes Mad-Max with a hell of a lot of gangs and regional warlords popping out of the woodwork.

[TruthSeeker]

I meant Anarchy as an abscence of central government.

[Clockwood]

Then everything goes Mad-Max with a hell of state and local governments degenerating into feudal states or regional warlords.

[TruthSeeker]

.....:rolleyes:

Why would the abscence of central government imply such a thing? :rolleyes:

[kazakhan]

I am not saying this is the Land of Oz. I am saying it is better this than the alternative.
The alternative? There is only one?

You get to make an enormous number of lifestyle decisions today in comparison to any other time in history. You get to pick where to live, what you want to make a living at, who you want to marry and if you want to marry. You get to pick your religion or no religion. You actually get a bit of a say in who rules your country.
Lifestyle choices? Like 3 ply silky soft toilet paper? Most of what you said has been available since the dawn of time. Because you can think of a few places and times where this was the case does not mean it has always applied everywhere.

In most times and places, you would die a couple miles from where you were born doing whatever it was that your parents did. You were the state religion and disagreeing with your king or lord might mean your head. And these were the free men. Slaves and indentured servants had it much worse.
In what times and places, most is way too general? Much worse than the slaves and indentured servants of today, well that's a given we have cleaner sanitation etc :D

Why would the abscence of central government imply such a thing?
Because Clockwood seems to believe that no-one is capable of looking after themselves and that any wanna be warlord would be unstoppable. Also perhaps he believes that no central goverment means no law and order which wouldn't necessarily be the case.

[Clockwood]

The alternative? There is only one?
One probable one.


[Lifestyle choices? Like 3 ply silky soft toilet paper? Most of what you said has been available since the dawn of time. Because you can think of a few places and times where this was the case does not mean it has always applied everywhere.
I can choose to continue to live in Omaha or I can move to Chicago with only a little difficulty. I can choose if I want to continue working for the USDA or go back into concrete manufacture or get a degree in something unrelated. I can marry my current girlfriend or not even when she is a different race from me. Since the US has no official religion like in many countries, ancient and modern alike, I can remain agnostic or I can go attend a protestant church or sign up with the mormons or go worship a sock puppet. I can think of few times in history where I could do this sort of thing and get away with it.


[In what times and places, most is way too general? Much worse than the slaves and indentured servants of today, well that's a given we have cleaner sanitation etc :D
In old Europe, a peasant was essentially owned by a lord. You were not allowed to leave and were subject to his whim on any matter without recourse. In other places, like Rome or the primitive American colonies or the like, slaves were very common, occupying a truely significan part of the workforce. They could be killed or beaten if they did not follow orders or even looked at somebody wrong. An indentured servant in most of Europe in the old days was required to work for seven years to pay off a debt under conditions that were truely inhuman and often got them killed. If they refused, they were thrown in a dark hole in the ground and quite often they still died.


[Because Clockwood seems to believe that no-one is capable of looking after themselves and that any wanna be warlord would be unstoppable. Also perhaps he believes that no central goverment means no law and order which wouldn't necessarily be the case.
A warlord would be stoppable. But it would mean an uprising by the people who would lose massive numbers of people in the process or an attack by another warlord. In either case, another warlord will be on the throne soon enough. Whoever has the guns controls 90% of the law in any situation.

People can't take care of themselves. They swing between delusions powered by pulses of emotion. Democratic governments and republics are still stupid... but at least the emotions cancel each other out and things happen slow enough for some of the more blatantly stupid things to be weeded out.

[Neildo]

You get to pick ... who you want to marry.

Tell that to all the homosexuals. No matter what time frame we're gonna be living in, we'll always have to have someone to pick on.

- N

[glaucon]

[QUOTE=glaucon]The real reason we are slaves is due to the fact that there are no alternatives to the system we find ourselves in.QUOTE]

what system would you like then - anarky?

LOL
What? You're not familiar with any political system besides the one you endure??
Actually, anarchy would be temporarily required to overthrow the current regime. I was however, suggesting something else besides the existing capitalistic hegemony.

[kazakhan]

In old Europe, a peasant was essentially owned by a lord. You were not allowed to leave and were subject to his whim on any matter without recourse. In other places, like Rome or the primitive American colonies or the like, slaves were very common, occupying a truely significan part of the workforce. They could be killed or beaten if they did not follow orders or even looked at somebody wrong. An indentured servant in most of Europe in the old days was required to work for seven years to pay off a debt under conditions that were truely inhuman and often got them killed. If they refused, they were thrown in a dark hole in the ground and quite often they still died...
A warlord would be stoppable. But it would mean an uprising by the people who would lose massive numbers of people in the process or an attack by another warlord. In either case, another warlord will be on the throne soon enough. Whoever has the guns controls 90% of the law in any situation.
Thanks for the education, I'll leave my money on the fridge ;)

People can't take care of themselves.
No, some people can't take care of themselves.

[duendy]

first you have to seriously ask yourself:
Am i a slave?
do i wanna Be a slave? and do i want my kids and their kids to be slaves, etc?

then if not. you wanto to explore how all this salve-holdership scam has come about and is maintaining itself

i believe it does it through myth/thestories we are fed and tell ourselves

know that taking up guns and imagining a revulution onwt sort it. they never do. you hav to SEE through the game though. that's where energy and passion come from.
It is precisely that energy and passion the slave-holders want to inhibit

they do this through various means. the most infamous is DIDIDe and RULE/CONQUEr. which is where in their myths--which they make DAMN sure you are well versed in--they divide us into two parts, a 'good' and a 'bad'. ie., guilting us and making us mis-trust our FEELINGS
we have two aspects. feeling and reason. the power-weilders have created a deification of 'reason/intellect/brain/head', and a denigration of feeling/body/Nature/sensuality

Feeling informs being in touch with natrual feelings informs us. but what the state does is is wants to 'medicalize' feeling away. you are un-happy? they call it 'depression'...a 'biological disease' they call 'mental illness'....etc

so you take their pills and hat they do is fuk with your feelings. you are in their control. you now can get on with being a productive slave.`problem sorted. the culture doesn't have to ask any serious questions about ITSELF!

[Clockwood]

Tell that to all the homosexuals. No matter what time frame we're gonna be living in, we'll always have to have someone to pick on.

Better than it used to be. In the old days they might just be killed or have the demons beaten out of them.

[Neildo]

Better than it used to be. In the old days they might just be killed or have the demons beaten out of them.

Tell that to the Greeks, Romans, and other sexually free people. ;)

- N

edit: actually nevermind, this is about marriage. No idea if they ever got married.

[Clockwood]

Ah, yes. The Greeks and Romans. Known for their mass orgies... often involvine eunuchs, the rape of slaves, and peophillia.

And no. While homosexuality was considered perfectly normal and was an accepted form of release that didn't get anybody pregnant, nobody even thought of marriage. It was simply something that felt good and didn't have any percieved consequences. A man might bang a boyfriend while away and then come home to bang his wife without getting any weird looks.

[TruthSeeker]

Because Clockwood seems to believe that no-one is capable of looking after themselves and that any wanna be warlord would be unstoppable. Also perhaps he believes that no central goverment means no law and order which wouldn't necessarily be the case.
Thank you for the perfect answer. :)

[TruthSeeker]

i believe it does it through myth/thestories we are fed and tell ourselves
Yep. Like "scarce" resources.


they do this through various means. the most infamous is DIDIDe and RULE/CONQUEr. which is where in their myths--which they make DAMN sure you are well versed in--they divide us into two parts, a 'good' and a 'bad'. ie., guilting us and making us mis-trust our FEELINGS
we have two aspects. feeling and reason. the power-weilders have created a deification of 'reason/intellect/brain/head', and a denigration of feeling/body/Nature/sensuality
Well, I think this has changed a little bit... beginning with Freud and than Elvis..... Gotta love them.... :D

I think the whole law system is a joke, actually. I mean.... 99% of people in jail were nelglected or abused during their childhood. they were fabricated by our society and than were thrown in jail. What the hell? The law system is just a bandaid for our society. It doesn't solve the problems, it just treat the symptoms! It is just an excuse for the government to oppress people. :bugeye:


Feeling informs being in touch with natrual feelings informs us. but what the state does is is wants to 'medicalize' feeling away. you are un-happy? they call it 'depression'...a 'biological disease' they call 'mental illness'....etc
Yes, yes..... as if it wasn't natural. They want us to become senseless machines, working for them like slaves, not having our own free will.... :bugeye:


so you take their pills and hat they do is fuk with your feelings. you are in their control. you now can get on with being a productive slave.`problem sorted. the culture doesn't have to ask any serious questions about ITSELF!
Ha! I love you duendy........

[lixluke]

"Wow, those that don't see the 5 trillion dollar debt and the 500 billion dollar deficit are.... well blind. Or those that do and think that the US can dig itself out are... well stupid"
----------
Wrong.

[TruthSeeker]

That's a great argument, cool. Care to elaborate? :D

[lixluke]

America has the most powerful military on the planet. We laugh in the face of debt.
Good enough?

[TruthSeeker]

Well.... no because you can be nuked at any moment now.
10..... 9..... 8..... :D

[lixluke]

Oh ok. Maybe the military isn't that effective against laughing in the face of debt.

[Clockwood]

First of all, America can't be nuked without the collapse of civilization. If it wouldn't happen naturally, it would happen because the majority of our own nukes would be in the air before the first enemy nuke touched down. When we die, we don't die alone.

And I doubt many would be willing to use a nuke on us and take the risk for a debt... especially if they can't collect anything afterwards even if they were to survive.

And this thread is going down the toilet fast.

[Godless]

America is the only country I know that has crawled through a mile of shit and still come out smelling sweet afterwards.

This country will manage. O! I don't know how, perhaps after a "civil war" the blue states and Canada & Mexico as our alies maybe!. LOL... but we will be back!.

Godless.

[mistermistoffolees]

Nah, every other country still allied with the US will just get sick of the take, take, taking and demand some giving. When again, they are refused they'll all just start a revolt. I somehow think that might be the start of WW3.

[jennyRater]

America is the only country I know that has crawled through a mile of shit and still come out smelling sweet afterwards.

we had it pretty easy in the world wars realy - never had a shot fired in our own land, exept Pearl harbor. The Russians sufered LOTS worse, but I see what you mean that they didnt smell sweet! Depresion was rather shit for USA tho I guess, and race riots not nice...

[Karmashock]

The only thing this thread really says is that there are a lot of people here that would like to see America get hurt... everything else is pretty specious.

The US’s economics are good...

The US’s technology is greater than or equal to anyone else’s

The US’s cultural influence is far greater then most people realize and easily the most profound in the world

The US’s military power is really only restrained by nuclear weapons at this point...

All these things contribute to the US’s political power, which is without a doubt the strongest in the world.


This doesn't mean that there isn't weakness in the US... there is... but contrary to what many here might think, the US is getting stronger now. You have to understand that the US is playing this for the long term. People are fickle and change their minds about things very quickly, but the material things remain. The US is taking care of the material things now with the assumption that public opinion will shift back to its favor eventually.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[mistermistoffolees]

All Empires fall. You just gotta know where to push.

I'm not certain whether you could class the USA as an empire though. It hasn't really spread itself colonially... that I'm aware of anyways :|

[duendy]

so..karmashok there. got his feet up, and basball hat on, with i (heart) USA logo on it thinkin..."gee..aint things jest FINE"

well. it AINT!...a billion kids staving to death on this little planet aint fine mr. you middle classers with your indifferent smugness rile me

[Karmashock]

Well, you could say that the continental US is an empire... we did slaughter the native Americans and take a huge chunk of land from Mexico... as well as the Philippines (we gave them their independence later) and Puerto Rico from the Spanish (we let them vote every few years whether they want to become a state, independent, or remain a territory… they keep voting to remain a territory)… and Hawaii from the Hawaiians. Heck, after the war of 1812 we were planning to take Canada, but the British cut a deal with us and so we stopped.

That’s the US’s empire if anything… Unlike empires of the past though, instead of just putting people under our rule… we filled these places with our people and then granted those territories proportional rule of the federal government.


What is NOT US imperialism is anything outside of these territories. There is no US imperialism in the Middle East or Asia (outside of some small military bases, which are more refueling stations then anything.).

[Karmashock]

so..karmashok there. got his feet up, and basball hat on, with i (heart) USA logo on it thinkin..."gee..aint things jest FINE"

well. it AINT!...a billion kids staving to death on this little planet aint fine mr. you middle classers with your indifferent smugness rile me
We export food, dingus. If we did what europe is doing then we'd help fewer people. If we did what china or NK is doing then we might need help ourselves. :rolleyes:

[Neildo]

This country will manage. O! I don't know how, perhaps after a "civil war" the blue states and Canada & Mexico as our alies maybe!. LOL... but we will be back!.

Mmm, blue states w/ Canada & Mexico? Sounds like a much better country. :)

- N

[Karmashock]

The republicans won the last civil war against the democrats... and they'd win the second.
http://www.windycityart.com/washingtondc/dc/lincoln%20statue.jpg

Come get some. ;)

[TruthSeeker]

We export food, dingus. If we did what europe is doing then we'd help fewer people. If we did what china or NK is doing then we might need help ourselves. :rolleyes:
Oh yes, sure! It's like..... $40 million dollars spent on a stupid innauguration while some $35 million going to the tsunami disaster, up from what? 4 million?. Geeezzz..... :rolleyes:

No, seriously... you are completely brainwashed by stupid US media...! :eek:

[TruthSeeker]

See how "generous" you are....... :rolleyes:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2004/12/31/global_analysts_dispute_perceived_us_generosity/

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001805.html
"[R]anking of contries by relief aid per capita per day (in cents, not dollars):
1. Norway 21.04
2. Sweden 11.81
3. Denmark 5.95
4. Switzerland 5.85
5. Netherlands 5.15
6. Belgium 2.94
7. United Kingdom 2.58
8. Finland 2.38
9. United States 2.34
10. France 2.17
11. Canada 2.10
12. Australia 1.93
13. Ireland 1.83
14. Austria 1.23
15. New Zealand 1.18
16. Spain 0.61
17. Germany 0.61
18. Italy 0.42
19. Greece 0.27
20. Japan 0.06
21. Portugal 0.03"

Also:
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/pubaffairs/we/2004/bdm07.html
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44808

[Karmashock]

First, the 40 million couldn't be spent on the tsunami.
Second, we deployed a carrier group which although it didn't cost us much, was worth MORE then the hundreds of millions from other countries. We can actually DO SOMETHING. And we did.

Third, if we did things like the europeans then our economy would be 25 percent smaller just like theirs are per capitia, we'd have had no carrier group to deploy, and what money we gave would just go to corrupt government officals... or at least a lot of it would.


Think a little for once.

[Karmashock]

See how "generous" you are....... :rolleyes:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2004/12/31/global_analysts_dispute_perceived_us_generosity/

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001805.html
"[R]anking of contries by relief aid per capita per day (in cents, not dollars):
1. Norway 21.04
2. Sweden 11.81
3. Denmark 5.95
4. Switzerland 5.85
5. Netherlands 5.15
6. Belgium 2.94
7. United Kingdom 2.58
8. Finland 2.38
9. United States 2.34
10. France 2.17
11. Canada 2.10
12. Australia 1.93
13. Ireland 1.83
14. Austria 1.23
15. New Zealand 1.18
16. Spain 0.61
17. Germany 0.61
18. Italy 0.42
19. Greece 0.27
20. Japan 0.06
21. Portugal 0.03"

Also:
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/pubaffairs/we/2004/bdm07.html
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44808


the first thing he said was this...

Out of the 21 major donors, we're ninth -- hardly stingy, though not the most generous. One could make the case that comparing large economies with Scandanavia or the Benelux states is unfair, because the bigger economies have other public goods functions to fulfill (see Bruce Bartlett for this argument). If you limit the comparison to the G-7 countries, only Great Britain is more generous. Indeed, the most shocking figure in that table is how ungenerous the Japanese have been on this front.

At any rate, I doubt that takes everything into consideration. To say nothing of hte security we bring to regions.

The US is an enormous force for good.

[Neildo]

I could care less about "per capita" rankings as it's pretty meaningless. Obviously the less populated countries are going to be the highest donating ones. And even with the U.S. and U.K. still being in the top 10, let's not forget that they're currently at war so the victims in the tsunami are lucky enough to get any kind of aid from them. But hey, it's not like the donations matter as at this point as it's all just a penis-envy contest to see who's is larger since hardly any of that money is even going to the victims anyways. If anything, what the rankings do is show what countries are helping better fund the corrupt people that are skimming all the money so the lower the ranking, the better.

- N

[lixluke]

"The US’s economics are good..."
US economics suck.

[TruthSeeker]

First, the 40 million couldn't be spent on the tsunami.
Second, we deployed a carrier group which although it didn't cost us much, was worth MORE then the hundreds of millions from other countries. We can actually DO SOMETHING. And we did.
Yes... :rolleyes:
Just like Canada sent theirs.....


Third, if we did things like the europeans then our economy would be 25 percent smaller just like theirs are per capitia,
How the f*** did you come up with the 25% figure!? :bugeye:


we'd have had no carrier group to deploy,
Oh my God! A carrier group to deploy! Wow!


and what money we gave would just go to corrupt government officals... or at least a lot of it would.
Corrupt government officials, those, that the US put in power.... :rolleyes:


Think a little for once.
I lost the hope you will ever do that.

[TruthSeeker]

I could care less about "per capita" rankings as it's pretty meaningless.
Yes, ah... :rolleyes:


Obviously the less populated countries are going to be the highest donating ones.
What!?!? That makes no sense! If they are less populated, it is obvious that they have less money! Why would the ones with less money be the highest donors!?!?


And even with the U.S. and U.K. still being in the top 10, let's not forget that they're currently at war so the victims in the tsunami are lucky enough to get any kind of aid from them.
With the money those clows are wasting in that war they could have helped many countries that are suffering with starvation, caused by extremely low wages from multinational US companies.... :bugeye:


But hey, it's not like the donations matter as at this point as it's all just a penis-envy contest to see who's is larger since hardly any of that money is even going to the victims anyways.
It is not about a contest. I'm sure Sweden doesn't even care how much it is donating, it just is. Swedish people are very international and diverity-friendly, contrary to the US. They donate because they want and because they can. It is not about who gets to give more, it is about the outrageous lack of compassion from your stupid government. :bugeye:


If anything, what the rankings do is show what countries are helping better fund the corrupt people that are skimming all the money so the lower the ranking, the better.
Let us not forget that the US helped putting most (or even all) of the dictators of the world into power. Want a list? Let's start with Pinochet and Sadam, not to mention dictators from Argentina, Brazil, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, etc....

[TruthSeeker]

At any rate, I doubt that takes everything into consideration. To say nothing of hte security we bring to regions.
Yes! Like Iraq! How many dead already, 100,000!? :rolleyes:


The US is an enormous force for good.
Yes... good joke.
OMG! Never say that again. I almost puked at university!

... :p

[Neildo]

What!?!? That makes no sense! If they are less populated, it is obvious that they have less money! Why would the ones with less money be the highest donors!?!?

Well smaller countries tend to be fully developed. What more do the top countries listed need to further develop their country? The less change that happens due to a country being fully developed, the more funds that are available to be put towards various things such as this.


With the money those clows are wasting in that war they could have helped many countries that are suffering with starvation, caused by extremely low wages from multinational US companies....

Oh, I totally agree. I didn't vote for this war but there's not much I can do to stop all these funds being wasted on the war. But the fact of the matter is that they're involved in a war so they have less funds to go around for helping other countries.


Let us not forget that the US helped putting most (or even all) of the dictators of the world into power. Want a list? Let's start with Pinochet and Sadam, not to mention dictators from Argentina, Brazil, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, etc....

I was gonna add a safety comment like "thank goodness the U.S. isn't #1 this time" so that you wouldn't say something like that which I know you would. I'm not trying to turn this into an argument like that, I was merely pointing out what the tsunami relief fund has turned into.

- N

[Karmashock]

Yes... :rolleyes:
Just like Canada sent theirs.....
if they still have them, then they're likey WW2 relics. The water systems and helocopters that the US brough were significant enough to get the UN to even give us credit...

Worth their weight in GOLD they said... that's a lot of gold... :D



How the f*** did you come up with the 25% figure!? :bugeye:
Americans generate about 25 percent more wealth per capitia then Europeans do... how do you think we maintian almost the same economic size as the whole EU even when we have a much smaller population?

Look it up.


Oh my God! A carrier group to deploy! Wow!
When you're cold and hungery... and everything is destroyed around you... that carrier group is not something to make jokes about.



Corrupt government officials, those, that the US put in power
We put the indonesian government in power?

[TruthSeeker]

Oh please.....!
Study some math and history before you talk with me again!

Thanks.

Geeeeeeeezzzz.... :rolleyes:


We put the indonesian government in power?


Americans generate about 25 percent more wealth per capitia then Europeans do... how do you think we maintian almost the same economic size as the whole EU even when we have a much smaller population?


if they still have them, then they're likey WW2 relics.
^
|
|
unbelievable.... :rolleyes:

[-Bob-]

The republicans won the last civil war against the democrats... and they'd win the second.
http://www.windycityart.com/washingtondc/dc/lincoln%20statue.jpg

Come get some. ;)

If you go by red vs. blue- the traditionally victorious north (made up of democrats) would still kick ass.

[lixluke]

Everybody voted for this war.
When Osama hit New York, the entire America was riddled by blood thirsty cows out for revenge.
Idiots of America wanted war, idiots of America are suffering the consequences of war.
The dolt of the US played right into the republicans hands. Republicans want war.
We encouraged what they already wanted anyway.

Kill Osama was the only thing on the lemmings' mind. They killed our innocent civilians. Let's kill theirs. Or did America actually believe that retaliating wouldn't affect any civilians. That the war would only be waged against the bad guys.

You cried out for war when they bombed us. This is the result. Stop crying about what you asked for. You asked for war thinking that it wouldn't affect anybody other than those involved attacking New York. Get real. War affects everybody.

If zombies would have asked for a proper investigation and a fair trial against those accused of attacking New York, we wouldn't be in this predicament. Bet what was your attitude? They didn't give us a fair trial when they bombed us. Let's not give them a fair trial. Let's not abide by the laws that we created to protect the rights of everybody. Let's do whatever we want and kill whoever we want.