China's labour shortage...yes...labour shortage

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Undecided, Oct 8, 2004.

  1. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Yes you heard it here first China has a labour shortage, which to me does seem rather odd considering upwards of 100 million Chinese are actually unemployed. It seems that China is so successful that the average Chinese worker now expects more for his labour, which is a problem for the CCP because China’s big claim to the world market is low wages, low standards, and high profits. The PRD is the Pearle Delta region, which is the factory of China, and the world. But this obviously has not stopped the breakneck pace of investment that China has been going through over the last 20 years, although China is trying to stop investment and encourage investment from the frugal Chinese worker. A new report out from The American Chamber of Commerce in China shows that American companies are making huge profits in China, and outsourcing is surely not going to stop:

    This economy is now the world’s second largest, and it has the world’s economic engine over the past 3 years and it does not seem that it will change anytime soon. With China most counties actually do benefit, higher commodity prices, larger markets, and China has to develop her own domestic market so that utilize its huge investments which has been extensive. What I found interesting about that article is that American companies are investing in China to develop the domestic Chinese market which only proves that these companies are looking to the long term to develop a new consumer based economy large enough to replace the US economic engine which will undoubtedly be exhausted, and American companies do not want to be left out of the loop on this one. Hopefully China will have a soft landing (in China that means 7% growth!), and with China the whole world will be richer as a result.
     
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  3. Iris Registered Senior Member

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    If China has a labor shortage, does that mean the price of--basically--everything at Wal-Mart will go up? Oh, the horror...
     
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  5. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Economics is fo fucking stupid. Chinese are slaving for "international" market for peanuts, provide cheap goods for 500 pounders in order to develop their domestic market!!!??? Why is so fucking difficult for humans to develop domestic markets first, work for themselves first? Why do Chinese need mountains of the foreign green paper of the questionable value to jump start their domestic market? One does not need to be world's slave for 40 something years to create robust domestic market. One does not need any modern financial crap to develop domestic market. But, well, it's Chinese business.
     
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  7. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Because they need money to do that; which they, apparently, don't have.
     
  8. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    What does it mean "they do not have money"? What is money? It's nothing but an exchange tool. If people are capable of producing some goods/services, they have potential "money" already. In capitalism, one who does not have "money" to create something takes a loan from bankers/etc. (with a healthy interest) to purchase goods/people one need to create somehing. Is it the only way? I doubt it. Assuming that plant's ideas are good, one could: 1) just "issue" his own money/interest free debt papers to each and every one worker/supplier involved in the creation of a plant (not to stock market speculators). 2) people/suppliers could just voluntarily donate their labor/$/goods for the jump start of their economy. i.e. theoretically, one does not need be a slave for/of money. And so on...

    Even in the USA, people come to realization of such a simple moneyless things. there are communities where people do things for each other in an exchange for the goods/services they will (may) receive in the future. I.e. it does not matter that one is carrently broke; as long as he has any skill of the utilitarian value, he may receive services he needs NOW. He does not need to pay 20% interest on his credit card purchases, go to a title loan place, pawnshop, etc. Such examples are fairly rare though because it requires great deal of trust to live in this way.

    Humans are greedy and imperfect. The above approach could be misused and abused in the multiple ways. Money approach could be misused and abuse in the multiple ways too. However, it's much more understandable/acceptable to the greedy souls.

    because of the human greed, Chinese are willing to be slaves for 40 years instead of making sacrifices for their domestic economy (themselves) for much shorter time. It's not because of the dire necessity.

    Chinese government has horded 1 trillion $ already; but their domestic market is still weak; cause foreign $ is one of the last things one need to jump start domestic market.
     
  9. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    "Capable" means they not only have raw materials for making goods, but they also have people willing to work in the production plant; everyone needs to get paid monthly. Initial capital is necessary. But that's not news, right?
    What bankers? National bankers who are poor? International banks, right? Well, those banks need to think it's reliable to invest in China; if foreigners think Chinese economy isn't stable enough (country is poor), they won't invest.
    Is it the only way? Of course it's not the only way of raising capital. Another way is to have foreigners open up factories in China; average people get paid and acquire skills. There are other ways (forgot, course was a long time ago). None of the known solutions bring satisfying results.
    Yields an economic nightmare. If gov't simply issues money, it's inflation and depression. If a company pays its workers whith its own products/certificates, it eventually leads to monopolies; general worker is unhappy with that, too. Debt papers.... Can you eat an I Owe You note?
    Donate labor, the way Russians donated their labor and sat for months without a paycheck?
    I understand. If we all cooperate, then it'll work. But it never happens that way, primarily because everyone needs to eat something and to live somewhere, initially.
    Very insufficient. Plus, I distrust utopias. Have a link for further details?
    Humans are inherently good. They are perfect, like all creations of nature. Humans are interested in serving their needs and comforts, like all other animals and insects and even virus cells. Don't start with me.
    Russian gov't spent a lot of money that was given as aid. A humorist described well how the money was used. It's not that Chinese are willing to slave, it's their gov't that likes the situation. What can you do with their gov't?
     
  10. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I'll try to put my thought in more clear way. Let's say two Chinese, A and B, do not have money; but, otherwise, they are capable of making stuff X and Z, for example. Two Chinese, A and B, cannot make and sell stuff X and Z to each other because they do not have money. Two Chinese decide to slave for another guy for 40 or so years in order to get money and be able to sell stuff X and Z to each other later on. Aren't that kind of stupid? Could it be easier to come up with some mutual agreement between A and B in order to jump start selling X and Z to each other without protracted slaving for another guy?
     
  11. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Slaving for the American/Europian/Russian consumption is not the only, is not the optimal way to accumulate initial capital. Again, what is capital? Capital is not money. Money can become worthless overnight (you should know). It happened that people are willing to contribute their labor/resources/skills to some project in an exchange for paper bills. Paper bills are not the only mean of exchange.

    Again, bankers sell money. National or International, rich or poor bankers, it does not matter. Money have zero intrinsic value. In other words, they worth something until people believe they worth something. People can believe that other things worth something too. Things like future payment obligations, shares, dislike of being a slave, etc.

    If people are so low on the energy and self-esteem, all they can hope for is to be slaves of the foreign $ bags. Again, I do not get it. If the bulk of labor force/raw materials/expertise (Chinese are not exactly barbarians without skills, etc.) comes from the internal sources, WHY one needs an external $ bag to jump start domestic market? Take for example Russia, which is full of highly educated poor people, why do those people need foreign $ to jump start their economy? They have everything except the will, I guess.

    If people would have been explained/given clear choice: 1) be a slave; sell their kids in the debt slavery to accumulate foreign capital in order to buy stuff from each other in the very distant future; 2) make some kind of collective agreements; issue some kind of the delayed action - $; donate their labor for free, after all, etc. In this case, I'm not so sure that option #1 would be chosen.

    For example, all one needs to successfully work is food/clothing and shelter. Farmers produce ready to consume food stuff each year. Obviously, Farmers are not willing to separate with their food in order to feed still unproductive city workers (working on the starting up an agricultural implements factory, for example) who have nothing of the value to offer yet. as well as farmer are not willing to feed for free city's "support personal" (builders, bus drivers, etc.). Builders do not want to build new homes because city workers have no goods to sell yet. And so on....

    Thus, in the classical money economy: most of the city dwellers are selling/loading stuff on markets and do similar unproductive stuff to survive, few of the city workers are being hired by the foreign companies, farmers have neither cheap implements nor strong domestic market; builders have little job to do; government takes/steal foreign $ credits, and so on. Dredful, little hope life is going on for many years, everybody is in deep debt, ....
    The only hope is such an economy is to prostitute a country to the foreign investors for the lowest price (many other prostitutes are on the money market too; so one can not demand too much (like safety, work conditions, etc.) from a foreign investors in order not to scare them off. It's Slavery. Pure and simple.)

    Wouldn't it better if farmers, workers, builders come up with some internal payment scheme to avoid prostitution of a coutry, slavery and many years of stagnation/debt payment?

    I would not use this as an example. Such "donations" had much more to do with initial accumulation of the capital (by few priviledged) than with country's development.

    Cooperation between all is not necessary. Society may "break up" into thousands of cooperation projects having clear outcomes, future payments schemes, lots of private interest to succeed, etc. humans just need food and shelter to work through rough times (hopefully, their old clothes will last). It makes cooperation more attractive than long, debt slavery. And such mini cooperation is fairly widespread even in the USA (various start ups; not all of them were created using venture/bank capitals).


    One could argue long time with the above statement. Both animals and humans, serving to their immediate needs/instincts, may call up lots of ugly things on themselves (like starvation from overpopulation). Humans are: 1) selfish; 2) do not want to get involved (apathetic) cause they are selfish. That's why masses are easy to rule and exploit by the humans with higher "drive". I do not see how the present state of affairs worldwide serves human needs and comforts (except those of the humans with high "drive"). One day, humans will be forced to try something new, to go against basic primitive insticts, to jump up to the next development level. Chinese/Russians/other developing nations could show an example of such a jump. Istead, they walks the same slavery/uninvolvement/prostitution/debt/... road.

    Russian government stole the money for the private use of its members. Russian people will need to pay back the debt as well as to live very uncomfortable lives. Russian people have/had such a government because they are: 1) selfish, 2) apathetic (because they are selfish). No amount of foreign credits, no number of the foreign polluting sweatshops will change that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2004
  12. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

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    There are plenty of rural regions in china that still have low wages, however they are geographically not (yet) ideal for export. However, as labour market gets more tense while new roads and railways make the rural countryside more accesible, probably these regions will be developed as well.

    Better Brush up on my Kanjii
     
  13. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    America has a labor shortage too...it is the H1B kind. For American Citizens, there is no shortage....It is all about cheap labor....that is the shortage...otherwise, we would not be getting 2 million Mexicans a year that disappear into the country...
     

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