Networking Help

so i was wondering how i would go about setting up a network inside another network?

 

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More details pls. Describe the network already in place.

 

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If your making two networks that connect together, or one new network within a new one, it would require that your machines either have bridge network adapters (two adapters, one for each network) or that you have an OS that is capable of using one adapter with mutliple IP's (Like linux).

If you want to generate a second network within that of the existing network, then you would really have to be using the linux systems to make it work, however the networks all use the same adapters/cables and if the networks have switches or routers it could cause configuration problems if they are going by IP address and not MAC addresses for the adapter.

As Voodoo Child mentions it would be great if you supplised a little more info about what you want to attempt to do.

 

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wouln't this work.

You have a local network were you connect to a server and via that server you have the ability to access internet and such. You of course can find everyone eelse connected too.
Then create a user-group or domain within that network. If you have a password protected domain within that local network then it would be more private (if that is what you are after)

 

so we are in a school on the network and we want to set up another network in our break room so that we can have faster pings while gaming... or will this really help will we ping to eachother the same speend without a new network? am i making any sense

 

Firstly an entire seperate network (not on the original system) would stop data collision, in the sense that the networks traffic is still present on the same cables as the ones you will be using. This doesn't mean the traffic flows through all the cables though, only those where their destinations are attached.

Your ping speeds would be increased (I guess) if you were to define which systems on the network you want access to. Since your on about being at a School look for this book in the library there or library elsewhere "Sams teach yourself TCP/IP in 24 hours".
I mention this because it's a good book for understanding how to setup networks from and can help explain things alot better than myself.

However a quick clue up.

The internet as you know has DNS servers that define where a server is and the domain name that can resolve to an IP, this means any connection made to a server on the internet requires a "lookup" before it's accessed. The period of time that the lookup takes can take milliseconds or whole seconds depending on how used the DNS server is.

On an internal network there is the capacity to use DNS servers or WINS to do the same thing, and again the same problem is applied, it causes the ping time to take longer because the computers got to lookup, be answered about where the computer it's attempting to communicate with resides, and then eventually attempt to talk to that computer.

This however can be sped up, it just requires a couple of files on the computers you intend to use to be altered. These can be:

a file called Hosts, this file speeds up computer (and domain) name resolving to an IP.

Example:

Code:

127.0.0.1         localhost"
192.168.8.1               router52
192.168.8.2               computeruser3
192.168.8.3               computeruser4

Another file that can be altered is LMHOSTS which deals with NETBIOS, which is similar to the HOSTS file but it deals with the method that windows machines can identify themselves and their workgroup. (NETBIOS is what aids a windows machine to be seen in a local network of windows machines, and allow Printer and folder/file sharing between machines on the network. NETBIOS is one of the oldest methods hackers could obtain Data about your machine and network.)

The file looks much like the hosts file but doesn't have "127.0.0.1 Localhost" in it, the names of the computers are the NETBIOS names.
On some windows builds there are actually ways to insert into the NETBIOS cache the names of other computers you want it to see other than this file, usually through a CMD (Commandline) command.

Such commands are:
Tracert (Traceroute) traces a route from one IP to another IP
Route Allows the alteration of which "routes" to take to speed up resolvement.
Netstat TCP/IP stats
Nbtstat NETBIOS stats

The above commands allow you to look at and control a network to more avail.
Lastly you should note that IPX networks are just a Layer that runs on the UDP of TCP/IP.

Which will slow your gaming down a little (and potentially cause crashes/errors etc)

(UDP = User Datagram Protocol & TCP = Transfer Control Protocol.

Both allow data transfers on a port, however if TCP is assigned it uses a "handshake" method, namely the port is Opened by a connection, and then during the life of the connection it remains open and any data it receives, it replies with a "Stopbit" to express the packet receives was received correctly. TCP connections can be slowed down by this method, however they are useful to make sure a connection receives the correct data and are usually used to connect to the TCP listening port of a server [i.e. Connectioning to a webpage is usually port 80, once connected UDP ports >1024 are used which are automatically allocated by the server for the users]

UDP only listens on the port, a connection doesn't have to bind and it doesn't handshake the data so can have alot of errored datagrams. It's used usually in filetransfers where the TCP controls the MD5 information and the UDP controls the actual file data, or for instance a messaging service where TCP connects to the messaging services server and the UDP ports listen for file connections or messages that don't go through the server.)

I hope this gives you a clue that there isn't really an easy answer to cleanup your network conjestion for gaming as it means getting your hands dirty

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you just need two routers. i suggest the linksys bfre series, whichever model matches your needs.

you set the first one to whatever subnet (LAN IP) and put the front end of the other router on that subnet (WAN IP of second router is on the subnet common to the LAN IP of the front router), with a subnet of its own.

for instance the LAN IP of the first one would likely be (note that your WAN IP for this router is assigned by your ISP, or the next higher router up the chain):

192.168.1.1

and you put the second one either on a static or DHCP, so it's WAN address is:

192.168.1.2 (or any other number up to 254 instead of the 2)

then you set the LAN address of the second one to:

192.168.2.1

and all machines on that network get a 192.168.2.X address

shazam, network in a network.

if you use DHCP, the DNS addresses and such will likely pass through with no problems. otherwise you may have to set the DNS servers manually in the router config.

you can generally access the router's web utility at 192.168.1.1 (or 0.1 or 2.1 for the last two). that is where you change all the stuff to what I said.

I think it's best if you use a different subnet mask on the two networks. if you have DHCP enabled your settings will be passed to the network cards on the subnet, otherwise you may have to manually configure the TCP/IP settings for the machines on which you're using static IPs.

 

or you could just get an extra switch and use a crossover cable (most switches have crossover ports)

 

How does that get another network?

A crossover cable is used for mac address to mac address connections. A "network" consists of a subnet. If the subnet is different (which is has to be on the network you're trying to bridge (or route) to), you need a router or a bridge (like two cards in one machine with some software, or a hardware bridge (which I've never used, though routers and bridges are sometimes termed the same). So I don't see how a switch and a crossover cable gets you anywhere. You could use the equipment if you don't have a hub on the inner subnet, but you don't need the crossover cable really unless you're hooking two mac addresses together without a hub or switch.

Maybe I'm missing something?

 

I dont think he wants another network in the way you people seem to think, a simple switch for them to game on would work just fine

 

I think he meant he already had a network up, it's just that the pings were low because the network probably does the whole school. This is why I steered clear of Hubs, Switches and Routers, however the only person that can of course explain what they mean is djkmoney

 

getting a switch would allow them to play without most of the noise from the network, and its the easiest solution.

 

i think kunax is on the right track that is exactly right thank you all so much for your help!!! so what would the best way to go to about this

 

I didn't catch the school part until too late!

hehe.

How does the crossover cable work into it?

 

hehe what, who said anything about a crossover cable

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, it all depends on there setup anyway.

Using a switch is really easy, all you do is connect all the pc to the switch with a netcable and puff with a little luck you be gaming in no time.
Ofcause it requires you lot to drag cables from the pc's all around the class room to the switch. It would realy help if you told how your connected now.

btw: is there a switch in the classroom (switch, thingy with a lot of blinking lamps and cables), reason being if you have access to this you can just disconnect the rest of the school

 

Yeah literally disconnect the school, they might not be able to do anything on their computers until you connect them backup lol

Seriously, If your going to build your own network outside of your school network, your better off getting the parts and not messing with the Schools system unless you've consulted the Network Administrator(s) since I'm sure for your benefit of learning how to network up the would be happy to assist.