Homosexuality is a disease

[Aborted_Fetus]

I brought up the topic of homosexuality as a disease in a chat room the other day, and i was almost kicked out of the room...it was like more taboo that abortion. I found this quite interesting. I think that is the reason there has not been a cure for homosexuality. Can you imagine what the media would do to a story like that? The public would go nuts if they found out that a cure for homosexuality was being worked on. Is it really that bad? Damn MTV and gay rights activists are so hellbent and proctecting the rights of gays and brainwashing them to think that it is completely natural and that it is OK. It is not OK. Homosexuality is the complete opposite of the natural human reproductive process. Humans are not supposed to be attracted to the same sex. Our bodies were designed perfectly for one male and one female. Homosexuality is a chemical imbalance in the brain (just like bi-polarity, depression, etc) and a cure should be researched. Of course it wont actually be worked on for a while, if ever, because of these brainless activists.

Your thoughts?

[Asguard]

i think your an idiot

what is the difference between you liking blonds when i like redheads and you liking girls and me liking BOTH

there is no difference between atraction to guys or girls and why the hell should YOU have the right to dictate that someone who isnt harming anyone else should be "cured"

B\W have you ever been turned on at the thought of a 3some?

should they cure YOU?
or the 2 pritty blonds who will do it with you?

[dixonmassey]

You premise is that nature of humans demands procreation. What if human nature is more complex? What if humanity is just an unsuccessful mutation doomed to fade away, or some kind of trial test for something better? What if the ultimate goal of humanity just to realize how worthless it is and self-destruct, or just to self-destruct without realization of anything? What if homosexuality is just an evolutionary tool to shape humans into something else (like self-procreating race of hermophrodites)? Those first mammals were quite "unnatural" too. Big human female boobs were (most likely) considered unnatural tens of thousands of years ago. Scientists still do not understand why big boobs developed in females. Today, big boobs are very natural and sexy. I would be careful in using the word "natural". What is natural for animals may be unnatural for humans. What is unnatural today maybe very natural tomorrow (independently whether we like it or not).

[Tiassa]

Maybe when we're done we can straighten out all those folks who like chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla. There's no hope for the chocolate-mint people, you know.

[James R]

Let's cure all the people with brown eyes, too. They are an abomination!

[Asguard]

how about all the religiouse nuts
VERY un-natural

dolphine males will give head to other males but does any animal pray to jeuse?

[Repo Man]

How about a cure for people with the mental disorder of homophobia?

You guys also left out a cure for lefthandedness. I don't trust those sinister bastards.

[buffys]

hey, don't joke about that. Left handed people are witches (or russian hockey players).

[Zero]

Don't forget a cure for liking sex.

That's an enormous plague that must be cured.

And while we're at it, let's cure the people who dare to put peanut butter on their bagels instead of cream cheese. Horrid and unnatural.

The worst disease yet: The odd way of thought that drives people to consider homosexuality a disease. Let's cure that, too.

Must be caused by chemical imbalances.

[spuriousmonkey]

I hear there is already a cure for homosexuality. A lobotomy in conjunction with castration.

you make lots of assumptions thinking that they are scientific (because they sound scientific to you), but it is all bullshit. Nobody knows why people are homosexual. In fact there are probably a million (or a billion) reasons why people are homosexual. One of them could be that homosexuality could be an evolutionary advantage.

[SkinWalker]

I'd like to find a cure for cubism.

I swear the more I go to the museum, the more I like that shit. I used to hate it.

[Communist Hamster]

Yes, we need a cure for modern art. When I get kids, I'm going to sell their crappy doodles to an art gallery under the pretense that it's a marvellous realisation of the futility of the 3rd world or something. And get a million pounds for it.

[spuriousmonkey]

Modern art is nothing. We desperately need to cure these people who have the urge to become politicians. They are sick.

[Hypercane]

Well although homosexuality may seem unnatural, some people just come up like that. Its not their fault they are attracted to their own sex. :)

[Tiassa]

Various cures:

- Chocolate: Shock therapy
- Brown Eyes: Genetics; gas chambers
- Religious Nuts: Lobotomy; unconventional warfare
- Homophobia: Shock therapy; lobotomy
- Lefthandedness: Genetics; shock therapy
- Liking Sex: Surgery; Pavlovian conditioning; pharmaceuticals
- Cubism: Religion (see above)
- Modern Art: Extinction
- Politicians: Anarchism; extinction
- Sisyphus: Why bother? Sisyphus is happy.

[OverTheStars]

Hey! I'm left handed, so stop picking on lefties, dammit!

[Bells]

Various cures:

- Chocolate: Shock therapy
- Brown Eyes: Genetics; gas chambers
- Religious Nuts: Lobotomy; unconventional warfare
- Homophobia: Shock therapy; lobotomy
- Lefthandedness: Genetics; shock therapy
- Liking Sex: Surgery; Pavlovian conditioning; pharmaceuticals
- Cubism: Religion (see above)
- Modern Art: Extinction
- Politicians: Anarchism; extinction
- Sisyphus: Why bother? Sisyphus is happy.

LMAO!

As for the religious nuts, I'd also suggest removal of all sexual organs to prevent them from ever breeding.

And we need to find a cure for people who show their bumbcrack whenever they bend over:(. Plumbers and electricians are especially in need of this cure.

[robtex]

Unfortunatly I don't know squat about homosexuality. But on a forum this darn big there must be at least a few out of the closet homosexuals and or bi's who have some input?

[Aborted_Fetus]

there is no difference between atraction to guys or girls and why the hell should YOU have the right to dictate that someone who isnt harming anyone else should be "cured"

yes there is. it has been proven that homosexual males possess a greater amount of female hormones than heterosexuals males. and i am not dictating that all homosexuals have to be cured. i am simply stating that a cure should be researched, and if there, in fact, can be a way to reverse homosexuality, any homosexuals that desire the treatment may get it. it could just be as simple as hormone therepy, who knows...

B\W have you ever been turned on at the thought of a 3some?

in fact i have not, even with two women. my gf satisfies me quite well by herself.

Big human female boobs were (most likely) considered unnatural tens of thousands of years ago. Scientists still do not understand why big boobs developed in females. Today, big boobs are very natural and sexy.

that is completely different. breast are a physical feature on women, not a metal imbalance. sure you can say that women who want breast implants have a mental imbalance, but it is society that has made big breasts "sexy". on the same token, you can say that society has accepted homosexuality as OK and natural. that, however, is not the reason people ar gay. i am not going to turn gay tomorrow, just because society accepts it. i think that there are just as many homosexuals now as there were a hundred years ago (percentage-wise), it is jus that homosexuals are only coming out of the closet more these days becuase it is accepted.

I would be careful in using the word "natural". What is natural for animals may be unnatural for humans. What is unnatural today maybe very natural tomorrow (independently whether we like it or not).

i agree. many years ago, homosexuality was considered unnatural. it wasnt until MTV and these equal rights nuts began their crusade that they claimed homosexuality was natural and OK.

my point is, that i beleive that homosexuality is a chemical imbalance and should be looked at just as depression is. A way to reverse it should be found, and available those who desire it.

[Repo Man]

The only reason any gay would need to be "cured" is because they have to live in a world full of narrow minded knuckleheads such as you.

Seriously, why would scientists waste their time?

Imagine a culture where eating Chocolate is forbidden, and anyone who does so openly is ostracized. Those who do not like Chocolate have no problem with it. But those who do enjoy it have to keep their Chocolate consumption secret.

Their consumption of Chocolate harms no one, and finally they start to come out in the open, and challenge the taboo as pointless and arbitrary. Reasonable people start to realize that the eating Chocolate is harmless, and a matter of personal taste.

Nutjobs are outraged at this public defiance of tradition, and condemn those who admit to liking Chocolate as sick, and encourage science to find a "cure" for those who's tastebuds find Chocolate enjoyable. Many of these people secretly enjoy and consume Chocolate, and their self hatred consumes them, and causes psychotic behavior.

No reputable scientists respond to the calls to find a "cure", because they realize that the only harm from eating Chocolate comes from the arbitrary taboo against it.

[Avatar]

I live in a "conservative" eastern european country and even to me Aborted_Fetus's idea seams ridiculous, biassed and crazy. But then... maybe he lives in the middle east :D

[ElectricFetus]

I just want to say this now; Abroted_Fetus and I are of no relation. :D

There have been many attempts to cure homosexually, none with much result. Aside for bisexuals homosexuality is preset, the best theory on it with much evidence is that it is do to a hormone imbalance during fetal development. Homosexuality is also not wrong: it happens in nature often, it’s been apart of human societies since the dawn of time, and a drop in human reproductions rates would be a good thing at this time.

[orange]

Why do some even bother to care about other people's sexual preferences?

[Avatar]

well, this one is easy
-> to know if they fall into these preferences

p.s. could it be that Aborted_Fetus is afraid that some homosexual might declare his love to him?
has happened 3 times to me :D

[buffys]

Why do some even bother to care about other people's sexual preferences?

I've always wondered that myself.

If they ate babies or went through hospitals unplugging resperators I'd understand why people cared so much but they don't hurt anyone.

[ElectricFetus]

Avatar,

darn thats only happened to me ones :(

[Avatar]

well.. maybe this ain't so conservative country at all then :D

[orange]

I've always wondered that myself.

If they ate babies or went through hospitals unplugging resperators I'd understand why people cared so much but they don't hurt anyone.

Agree!

[Avatar]

I think I answered your question, orange ;)

[orange]

I think I answered your question, orange ;)

3 times? You must be a looker!

I don't see you complaining though.. ;)

[Avatar]

well.. I enjoy compliments from whatever source :p

[Closet Philosopher]

Homosexuality is a good thing because they don't multiply there fore thay are not contributing to the world's population problem.

I know many homosexuals and most of them have had homosexual tendencies since they were children. I also believe that there are many guys who would have sex with anything/anyone so they claim to be homosexual. There also seems to be a bisexual trend passing around. I do not believe that true homosexuality or other forms ore a disease, it is the way a person is wired. I fyou are a religious fanatic, keep your opinion to yourself because you are the reason why there are gay pride marches and other happenings that you disapprove of. You can't "cure" a gay person and there is no viral, biological (maybe a genetic, but anyway...) agent that can be identified for homosexuality therefore it is not a disease.

Wrong forum buddy, go to a christian forum to express your opinion - at least most will agree with you there.

[SkinWalker]

If you believe its a disease, then you must fear catching it. Maybe Leonardo DiCaprio looked kissable to him and he figured it was the early stages of the disease.

[TruthSeeker]

Aborted_Fetus,

Homossexuality may have something to do with genes just like attraction may have... But as you can see, you can't just say it is a disease that needs to be cured...

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Maybe our human evolution has reached a point where we don't need so many reproducing humans.

Disease processes and genetic mutations occur "naturally" in evolution.

Homophobia is a disease.

Heterosexuality needs to be cured.

Would you hate your child if he were born with brown eyes?

Is it any of your business what position your neighbors have sex in?

Christianity is an unnatural aberation because they hate sex period.

Christianity has done more harm in this world than homosexuality.

I'm not gay, but I understand those who are, and I love them.

Evolution has a grand plan for human reproduction -- don't fight it!

I'd rather be gay than Christian!

Christians should be bashed and not gays.

The more evil of gays and Christians are the Christians!

They even said homo erectus was weird, but they had no control over it.

I like broadway tunes as much as gays.

Don't fight Mother Nature, you Christian perverts!

If I had the money to hire a decorator, who do you think I would hire?

All sexuality comes from the libido, and this is good.

Where does your sexuality come from?

Maybe heterosexuals are being eliminated by nature.

Until you have a loved one who is homosexual, you cannot understand love.

[TruthSeeker]

Homophobia is a disease.
Not necessarily.

Heterosexuality needs to be cured.
I doubt it is a sickness...

Christianity is an unnatural aberation because they hate sex period.
1: that has nothing to do with the discussion
2: Not all Christians "hate" sex

Christianity has done more harm in this world than homosexuality.
Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Evolution has a grand plan for human reproduction -- don't fight it!
Yes. our extinction, so that other species may live in peace... :rolleyes:

I like broadway tunes as much as gays.
See? Everything is a matter of opinion. I can't stand broadway tunes, I find them bad taste the least. I mean... mixing acting with music.... Can't you make anything more ridiculous then that!?!?

As for gays, I have a few friends that are gay.... and they know very well I'm not, but that doesn't affect our friendship at all.

Until you have a loved one who is homosexual, you cannot understand love.
That is total BS. Anyone can agree with me on that one... :bugeye:

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE=TruthSeeker]Not necessarily.

I doubt it is a sickness...

1: that has nothing to do with the discussion
2: Not all Christians "hate" sex
*************
M*W: Christians simply don't like sex. If you can answer positively, please do so. Christians flat do NOT like any kind of sex.
**************
Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about.
*************
M*W: I know what I'm talking about. It is you who is misinformed.
*************

Yes. our extinction, so that other species may live in peace... :rolleyes:

See? Everything is a matter of opinion. I can't stand broadway tunes, I find them bad taste the least. I mean... mixing acting with music.... Can't you make anything more ridiculous then that!?!?

As for gays, I have a few friends that are gay.... and they know very well I'm not, but that doesn't affect our friendship at all.

That is total BS. Anyone can agree with me on that one...
*************
TruthSeeker: You are a mutant of nature. It is you who doesn't fit in. It is you who knows not what he's talking about. The only true belief is from the rescesses. You are totally obliterated in fact.

[buffys]

I grew up in a conservative city/family so gays were evil for the majority of my life. Once I saw a bit of the world and actually met some gay people the thing that shocked me the most was they just wanted to find someone to love, like everyone else. If this was actually a choice it'd be SO MUCH easier to be "straight".

Once I figured out they actually just want a successful relationship (like everyone else) all of my preconceptions and bias' just melted away. For me it took getting to know them though, had I remained in the little world that I was born to I'd never have understood.

[TruthSeeker]

M*W: Christians simply don't like sex. If you can answer positively, please do so. Christians flat do NOT like any kind of sex.
I do... many of my Christian friends also do.... even some of the priests I've met seem to be ok with it....

M*W: I know what I'm talking about. It is you who is misinformed.
I'm not going on with that discussion. If you want to discuss Christianism, go to the Religion forums....

TruthSeeker: You are a mutant of nature. It is you who doesn't fit in. It is you who knows not what he's talking about. The only true belief is from the rescesses. You are totally obliterated in fact.
Yes, I don't fit in. But I don't fit in because this world is completely the opposite of what I am. Thanks God I'm different... :eek:

[chunkylover58]

[QUOTE=TruthSeeker]Not necessarily.


M*W: Christians simply don't like sex. If you can answer positively, please do so. Christians flat do NOT like any kind of sex.
**************



Source?

I wonder where all those Christian babies come from. Catholics are Christian and they have babies all over the place.

[Aborted_Fetus]

how can you say that homosexuality is natural? a penis and a penis do not go together. two men are not physically formed to be sexually involved. it is an unnatural feeling for a man to want to be with another man. it can not create new life. looking in nature, there are no animals that demonstrate homosexual behavior. animals have simpler brains that focus on survival and reproduction. humans have more complex brains, and often show unnatural behavior, such as suicidal tendancies, phychotic behavior, and homosexuality. nobody can argue the point that suicide is natural behavior, so how can anyone say that homosexuality is natural? both behaviors restrict the survival and reproduction of their species. sure, i can agree that the earth is getting kind of crowded and that a little less reproduction wouldnt hurt, but isnt that what contraception is for? i dont see how homosexuality is natural in any way.

[orange]

Aborted Fetus, you are mistaken when you claim that homosexuality is unknown within the animal kingdom. Birds, sheep, bats, dolphins and orangutans are some of the animals you need to study.

[spuriousmonkey]

how can you say that homosexuality is natural? a penis and a penis do not go together.
A penis and a hand, or mouth, or asshole do seem to go together according to many people.

looking in nature, there are no animals that demonstrate homosexual behavior. animals have simpler brains that focus on survival and reproduction.

That is a lie or else you are very misinformed. Go to hell or read up.


humans have more complex brains, and often show unnatural behavior, such as suicidal tendancies, phychotic behavior, and homosexuality. nobody can argue the point that suicide is natural behavior, so how can anyone say that homosexuality is natural?

The human brain has the same structural components as the chimpansee's brain. The behaviour you mention is natural. You confuse 'normal according to society's standards' with 'natural'. In this case we are not even talking about the moral standards of an entire society which constitutes normal, but just the standards in the part of society you seem to belong to.


both behaviors restrict the survival and reproduction of their species.

Evolution is not about the survival of the species. It is about the reproductive success of the individual. The human species never really had much problems expanding despite a fairly large percentage of homosexuals. So what is your problem exactly other than you think it is morally wrong? Don't become a homosexual if you don't like it.

[ElectricFetus]

Abroted_fetus

HA! I have seen it in animals all the time! My folks have a farm, I have seen male ducks fuck each other into submission, then a turkey climb on top cause he was turned on watching them, then the geese come in and start biting them honking like they were saying "gross, that is so wrong, stop that, its not natural!" I have seen a goose make love to a pair of boots, I have seen a roster fuck a hen with another roster on top of him fucking him!

sexual behavior can be vary flexible, as long as they manage to reproduce one way or another, strict heterosexual sex is not needed.

[Asguard]

"looking in nature, there are no animals that demonstrate homosexual behavior"

BULLL SHIT

DOLPHIN males will blow OTHER dolphin males

any farmer willl tell you when its time to let the bull at the cows, you know how they know? BECAUSE FEMALE COWS FUCK EACHOTHER

[Blue_UK]

Why are women attracted to men and vise-versa? Is it down to embryonic development? Why are people only really sexually motivated when they go through puberty?

Physical layout of pathways or chemical balances?

What am I getting at? Men and women perhaps have simular brains and there's no reason why elements of either's psyche could be prevailent in the other.

I find some women and some men attractive, but I only want to fuck women. I consider my self straight.

[river-wind]

If you think that humans are sexually odd, check out Bonobos (chimp relative), and get back to me.

[Watcher]

It's not "natural". That's really the crux of the argument and it can be easily debunked.

Many species exhibit homosexual behavior, it's natural. It may not be COMMON but that is not the same as it not being "natural". That word is being used in the wrong context; it is being twisted to support what is essentially a political platform.

Science has long recognized the vast sweep of human sexual behavior which has thousands of fascinating variations. But we're not talking science here; we're talking about a conservative AGENDA.

[Tiassa]

how can you say that homosexuality is natural?

It exists in nature. Don't see what's so hard about that A/F. Maybe you could shed some light on the difficulty?

suicidal tendancies, phychotic behavior, and homosexuality

Interesting combination. Yet they all do occur in nature.

[Medicine*Woman]

M*W: I chose to reply to your post rather than Well-Cooked Fetuses.
*************
Repo Man: "The only reason any gay would need to be "cured" is because they have to live in a world full of narrow minded knuckleheads such as you."
*************
M*W: I agree, why should scientists waste their time on a "cure" for homosexuality?

I also agree that homosexuality may become developed because of some kind of "chemical change." As a medical professional, I believe that hormonal changes during pregnancy affect the developing embryo. Homosexuality also tends to accumulate familially. I also believe that the mother transfers that particular gene, which has not been identified, to her fetus.

During pregnancy, hormones rage. Let's not forget that the food we eat is contaminated with all kinds of hormones. Cows are injected with estrogens to produce more milk. Then we feed it to our babies! Cows are injected with testosterone to bulk up their muscles so they will sell for higher prices in the market. Then we feed it to our children! It doesn't surprise me that we are all victims of hormone regulation.

Homosexuality has been with us since the beginning of time. It's known to occur in animal species. It's been proven to happen in highly populated areas. It has something to do with the proximal space of the inhabitants.

I have blue eyes. My children all have brown eyes. My two youngest daughters are lesbians. I didn't raise them to be lesbians. They just are, and I accept them. Nothing could take away my love for them. They are successful, and they are good mothers to their children. They have blessed me.

I have a gay uncle. Beyond that, I can only say that the father of my children has never come out of the closet, but he, too, has homosexual tendencies. Talk about a bad marriage? I've lived it!

For all those parents out there who are coming to grips with their homosexual children, I encourage you to love them, nurture them, and accept them. They are still YOU'RE children, and they still need your love. Don't blame it on them. They are the victims of their gestation.

I proudly march in the Gay Pride Parade with my grandchildren who may or may not be gay. They are innocent, and they are loved. Who knows where their sexuality lies? It is not any of my business to hate my children who have brown eyes any more than I could hate them for their sexuality. Their sexuality is none of my business anymore than my sexuality is any of theirs.

I'm proud of them. I'm definitely proud of them. Nothing, but nothing, has the power to take my children from me!

[Closet Philosopher]

Aborted Fetus, does being gay harm others, in your opinion?

[ElectricFetus]

May or may not be gay...i think we all know the answer to that.

Not really, homosexuality is not even guaranteed between identical twins (though if is it is very likely that other is to), one can be gay and the other not. Homosexuality is the result of hormone exposure at chance times and levels, or a combination of that with genetic predisposition.

[Aborted_Fetus]

ilikesalt: no, homosexuality does not harm anyone, that never was, or is my point

now, i know what you are going to say next: what do i care if it doesnt harm anyone?

actually, i dont. i really dont care how many people are gay, it doesnt affect me at all. im just expressing my opinion that homosexuality is a mental disorder (obviously to quite some opposition). its funny how some of you are getting quite riled up on this subject.

to all of you: im not trying to put down homosexuals, and i am not homophobic (and please, lets not go on and on about y u think i am homophobic...i had a gay roommate for almost a year, i had no problem with him). i am just saying that i am firmly against homosexuality, and i beleive it is a mental disorder.

about the homophobic thing...i guess it all depends on how u define "homophobic", but i define it as being afraid, hateful, or contemptful of homosexuals, which i am not. i do not treat homosexuals differently than anyone else, and i am not afraid of being around them for fear that i might become homosexual. i am very confident in my sexuality, and i have never been attracted to a male in any way whatsoever.

i guess my feelings toward homosexuality come mostly from shock that any male would ever be attracted to any other male. this shock is what leads me to my opinion that homosexuality is a disorder.

i dont know the statistics, but i would say that only about 5% of humans are truely homosexual, maybe 10% at the very most. this is a small percentage. humans that have, say, a physical deformation, are in a similair percentage. but the difference is, a physical deformation is considered a disorder. why not homosexuality?

or maybe you prefer the term "abnormal"? i dont think i have ever heard anyone say, "be proud of your gimp leg, its who you are...lets embrace your gimp leg and have a parade for others with gimp legs"...now i dont think you should be ashamed of yourself becuase you are homosexual, i mean you cant help it, but i am just sick of all this "gay pride" crap. do i prance around singing about my "straight pride"? cant you pride yourself for anything else, besides liking your same sex? come on.

well i guess thats about enough for now...until next time, have fun bashing me about why you think im stupid and narrowminded...just remember that life is too short to get all riled up and offended over a stupid internet forum. or anything else for that matter. go with the flow. have fun. later guys.

[spuriousmonkey]

its funny how some of you are getting quite riled up on this subject.

Could it be that we heard this nonsense already a million times and we feel physically sick that we have to live in a society which includes sick people like you. Yes, you have a mental disorder too if homosexuality is a disorder. Your mind is blocked by something. It lacks tolerance and understanding and can only see things from one limited view. That is a serious mental disorder I might add. Your brain seems seriously abnormal. I suggest you get some medication.

[Aborted_Fetus]

"Your brain seems seriously abnormal."

hahahahhaahaha
thats funny spuriousmonkey

how is your statement that i have a mental disorder any better than my statement that homosexuality is a mental disorder? i think you are the one that lacks the understanding that other people can have an opinion other than yours.

can we please stop the hypocrisy.

[spuriousmonkey]

I know perfectly well people can have another opinion. Your problem is to think yours means something.

Btw. My profession is to kill fetuses...kind or ironic isn't it.

[Closet Philosopher]

Ugh.

ANyway. Is there proof that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Is there proof from a highly regarded research facility, not a buch of christian extremist doctors? What constitutes a mental illness? What's wrong with being gay?

[Aborted_Fetus]

Is there proof that homosexuality is a mental disorder?

im not saying that is has been proven in a lab by scientists or whatever. i am using simple logic. a condition that only maybe 5% of humans possess is abnormal. im guess that maybe 5% of humans have, say, anorexia, which is a mental disorder, u cannot argue that. that is abnormal. on the same token, maybe 5% of humans are homosexual. that is also abnormal.

i looked up "mental disorder" on dictionary.com. it redirected me to "mental illness". it said this:
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma.
this sounds like homosexuality to me. homosexuality is an individuals impairment of normal emotional and behavioral functioning, and is caused by the factors listed in the definition.

is that not logical?

[ElectricFetus]

who’s to say its abnormal? 5% of people are extremely empathetic should they be corrected to?

[Facial]

im not saying that is has been proven in a lab by scientists or whatever. i am using simple logic. a condition that only maybe 5% of humans possess is abnormal. im guess that maybe 5% of humans have, say, anorexia, which is a mental disorder, u cannot argue that. that is abnormal. on the same token, maybe 5% of humans are homosexual. that is also abnormal.

i looked up "mental disorder" on dictionary.com. it redirected me to "mental illness". it said this:
'Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma.'

this sounds like homosexuality to me. homosexuality is an individuals impairment of normal emotional and behavioral functioning, and is caused by the factors listed in the definition.

is that not logical?

Your reasoning is rational, and it seems pretty logical. However, it is also in my opinion to oppose your view.

I know a gay person. They are quite normal in almost every respect. I think the definition of mental illness you stated there does not quite apply to homosexuality in an all-round way. Beyond the rigidities of definition, there also exist the leniency of exceptions. Homosexuality is an exception. Homosexuals don't exactly have impaired behavior or emotional functioning in the sense that it deprives them of their health or social well-being as in the conventional concept of a mental disorder ; they have the ability to socialize, speak, enjoy, learn, love, etc. like all other human beings except that their love is directed towards people of their own gender. And because this appears in a natural proportion of the population, around 5-10% as you stated, I wouldn't classify such a redirection of sexual tendencies as an "impairment."

[guthrie]

Mere logic doesnt mean anything. There have been many, many logical sequences in history that seemed not to work when tried out in real life. I mean even the original elements or humours or suchlike made some sort of logical sense, but happen to be wrong.

[Baal Zebul]

Homosexuality is not a disease.
However, you are niether born with it.
I believe i can explain the governing parameters behind it.


Some of course might try to satisfy their sexual need in a different way.
some might want to be a clothing designer, but it is not excepted for a man and being gay lets them escape that.
Some wish to matter, do something extreme to be recognized.
Some probably rebell against their parents.
Some might even rebell against society.
Some probably feel more relaxed in company of men.


still think it is sick thou

[ElectricFetus]

A fine hypothesis but I still vouch for the biological reasoning.
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/RootWeb/npr_letters_on_the_biological_ba.htm

[gendanken]

Homosexuality is not a disease.
However, you are niether born with it

There's a 3 year old boy down my block who loves pink.
His mother's bra he keeps in his room and when he puts it on it looks like a parachute.

But yes, we need to cure homosexuality along with menstruation and pubes. Ick, diseases!

[Aborted_Fetus]

baal: there are many studies that point to the fact that most homosexuals ARE born gay. i beleive the leading theory is that a certain hormone imbalance during fetal development can lead to homosexuality.

1. Some of course might try to satisfy their sexual need in a different way.
this is just rediculous. unless a man has homosexual tendancies in the first place, there is no way he will turn to men for sexual needs. any straight man is disgusted by the idea of sexual relations with another man.

2. some might want to be a clothing designer, but it is not excepted for a man and being gay lets them escape that.
that is just rediculous. i hope that was a joke.

3. Some wish to matter, do something extreme to be recognized.
referring to what i said before, there is no truely heterosexual male that will do anything with another man, no matter how bad he wants the attention.

4. Some probably rebell against their parents.
so you are saying that someone would become gay because they dont like their parents? come on.

5. Some might even rebell against society.
does this mean that someone that society rejects can grow to become gay? i dont see the relation. if society rejects you, why do something that will likely get you more rejected?

6. Some probably feel more relaxed in company of men.
there is a BIG difference between preferring the company of men and engaging in sexual activity with a man. just because a man prefers hanging out with the guys, going to the bar, playing poker, or whatnot, that gives him a reason to go gay?

i dont think you make any valid points, most people agree that homosexuality is genetics/hormone imbalance.


gendaken: just because a 3 year old plays with a bra, it doesnt mean he is gay. he probably doesnt even know what it is. in fact, the materials of a bra are probably quite attractive to any 3 year old. if he was older and knew exactly what he was doing, even crossdressing in public, then i would agree.

[gendanken]

gendaken: just because a 3 year old plays with a bra, it doesnt mean he is gay. he probably doesnt even know what it is. in fact, the materials of a bra are probably quite attractive to any 3 year old. if he was older and knew exactly what he was doing, even crossdressing in public, then i would agree.

Guano.

Make him a 5 or a 6 year old then- how many little boys do we see go from this fruity 3 year old to an even fruitier grade schooler? It follows them from they day they are born because their predilictions are biological.
Boy's a pixie, will die a pixie.

[Aborted_Fetus]

gendanken, the 3 year old does not know what he is doing. i agree, if he is gay, he was from the day he was born til the day he dies. but, there is no way a 3 year old can know what he is doing at that age. to a child, a bra is just a peice of fancy fabric. they cannot understand the social implications that wearing a bra has. i dont think, at three years old, you can determine if a boy is a fruit. wait a few more years, and who knows.

[gendanken]

gendanken, the 3 year old does not know what he is doing. i agree, if he is gay, he was from the day he was born til the day he dies. but, there is no way a 3 year old can know what he is doing at that age. to a child, a bra is just a peice of fancy fabric
So?

He's gay. Just can't fucking label it.

[apendrapew]

A study I read about in my Psychology book very cleverly used identical twins to learn the causes of homosexuality. Their results found that if one of the twins were gay, the chances of the other one being gay was about 50%. This is true of females too.

So homosexuality is at least partly genetic. Another influence is prenatal development. A male fetus may not get the right amount of male hormones or too many female hormones which could cause him to grow up to be a real fancy boy.

[ElectricFetus]

*cough* I'll post it again.

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/RootWeb/npr_letters_on_the_biological_ba.htm

[madanthonywayne]

Everyone's jumping all over this guy for suggesting that homosexuality is a disease? I guess whether or not it's a disease depends on the individual affected. There are probably some gays that would take a cure if it really worked. I KNOW that most parents would give it to their children. Homosexuality is like a short circuit in the reproductive system. I see nothing wrong with searching for a cure for homosexuality and, frankly, I believe that one day it will be found. So long as the cure is not forced upon you, whats the problem? Then homosexuality would really be a "sexual preference".

[ElectricFetus]

The only way I can see to cure it will be with cybernetics.

[buffys]

Wow, I can't believe how intense this is and (more importantly) how fast the thread got to 5 pages. I think Aborted_Fetus is essentially a brainwashed child that has likely never even met a gay person but he started the thread with an interesting observation:

I brought up the topic of homosexuality as a disease in a chat room the other day, and i was almost kicked out of the room...it was like more taboo that abortion.

I think that's an interesting point and the activity of this thread shows it. This is a VERY touchy subject. It's fascinating how knee jerk the reactions from both sides of this issue can get, it's basically been a 5 page yelling match.

[Aborted_Fetus]

buffys, if you read my posts before, you would know that i had a gay roommate for almost a year. i am also working a job right now and my boss is gay (lesbian). i have met many gay people, and i have no problem with them...even though i object to the lifestyle, thats just the way they are, they cant help it. just like if someone had a pyhsical disability, i wouldnt treat them any differently. i am not homophobic as many of you probably think. i highly doubt a homophobe could live with a homosexual as i did (not by choice, as a college roommate, but i still put up no objections). i also have a gay cousin (actually my mom's cousin, i dont know how that relates to me), so i was not brought up to hate homosexuals or anything like that. i was also brought up catholic, but i am now atheist. as you can see i am not brainwashed, i clearly think for myself, and looking at this topic logically and rationally, i still beleive that homosexuality is a disorder, and as madanthonywayne said, a cure should be made available for those who desire it.

[Asguard]

you wonder why its touchy?

if the goverment and even every man and his dog was saying that you cant marry the girl YOU love, you have to marry THAT girl you dont even find atractive

if people made coments on who YOU were with, and that who you slept with was "important" enough that every paper had peoples opinion polls on it

that who u screwed was "important" enough for it to be an ELECTION ISSUE

that people make laws JUST to stop YOU marrying the girl YOU love

That people even think its RELIVANT enough to TALK about it

think how YOU would feel if someone said that your atrcation to that cute bond your going to marry is a disease

if people were every day PREACHING against your loving her

if the fact that you ADMIT you love her stoped you getting a job, helping out at the brothers kids football games, or the scouts or anything else

wouldnt YOU be annoyed?

[spuriousmonkey]

buffys, if you read my posts before, you would know that i had a gay roommate for almost a year.

what is the problem then? You have been with a gay roommate and you are still not gay. Apparently the thing you classified as a disease is not contageous. No public health hazard then for having gay people in society.

[Mystech]

im not saying that is has been proven in a lab by scientists or whatever. i am using simple logic. a condition that only maybe 5% of humans possess is abnormal. im guess that maybe 5% of humans have, say, anorexia, which is a mental disorder, u cannot argue that. that is abnormal. on the same token, maybe 5% of humans are homosexual. that is also abnormal.

and 5% of people are Native Americans, so what?

this sounds like homosexuality to me. homosexuality is an individuals impairment of normal emotional and behavioral functioning, and is caused by the factors listed in the definition.

is that not logical?

How is homosexuality any sort of impairment, especialy of emotional or behavior functioning? You really should head back to school and take Psychology101 again.

By the way, as for the idea of homosexuality being a mental disorder, here's what the American Psychological Association has to say:



Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html#mentalillness


I suggest you take a look at the rest of the FAQ at that address, you might just learn something.

I find the fact that you'd run around asking why no one has seriously looked into this to be rather funny. The question is why are you running around spouting such awful misconceptions without having really looked into the matter yourself?

[darktr00per]

Homosexuality is a product of abundance. It was previlant among Greek and Roman civs. This stems from lack of suvival needs. In a civilization of abundance like the USA, people dont need to think about survival--we can indulge in pleasures of the flesh. In a society where survival is first, homosexuality is not a need and would quickly kill off any homos(for those who think its genetic). Therefore any gays who think thye are born in this way are sadly mistaken. If they are truly born with a genetic mutation they would have died off a long time ago.(since homos cant procreate). any comments please feel free to join in.

-Darktr00per

[Baal Zebul]

I think you should blame parents and society for having a gay kid,

the parents have given their kid incorrect parameters and therefore the kid becomes gay to please his parents. Or some rebell against their parents.
Gedanken, the 3 year old kid, he has been raised poorly and he will most likely grow up to go to fashion school and become a member in Fab 5.

I think this is the reason in most cases. Parents or Environment is the source of all bad.

[darktr00per]

Most gays are raised by a mother or grandmother only, or in some cases have been molested. Bith stem from childhood abnormailities.

[Asguard]

what a load of crap

people wonder who why people get rialed about this, NOTE THE ABOVE

please note there own comments infact, that they think they have some god given right to stick there nose in what other people do with eachother

everyone who has ever used handcuffs, whips, chains, scaves or any form of bondage confess. ITs unnatural (animals dont do it), so its a disease i must cure you off

its against gods will, how do i prove this, BECAUSE I SAID SO and im right and so you are sick and the goverment should arest you for it

[darktr00per]

ummm....asgaurd how about some real discussion and factual information.

[darktr00per]

Homosexuality is a product of abundance. It was previlant among Greek and Roman civs. This stems from lack of suvival needs. In a civilization of abundance like the USA, people dont need to think about survival--we can indulge in pleasures of the flesh. In a society where survival is first, homosexuality is not a need and would quickly kill off any homos(for those who think its genetic). Therefore any gays who think thye are born in this way are sadly mistaken. If they are truly born with a genetic mutation they would have died off a long time ago.(since homos cant procreate).

[darktr00per]

how many times do i need to say it. You cant be born gay---that would imply genetic mutation...which inturn homos cant reproduce---therefore would be extinct!

[Asguard]

homosexuality is preverlant among the animal kindom

as they havent got MINDS to be "BORD' or "rebels" or christans it throws your arguments out the window

and im sorry if i find the fact that you think you have some god given right to tell me who i can sleep with offencive

[Asguard]

actually im not sorry, not at all

i would happerly hijack this thread and make it frivolous, fill it up with crap and have it sent to the cesspool for deletion

do you know why?

because its not an issue

NO ONE PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE ELSE WHO TO SLEEP WITH

its as simple as that

i might be wierd but i dont feel i need to justify my possition at all, basically because there shouldnt BE a debate. NOT ONE PERSON SHOULD EVEN CONSIDER IT ANYTHING BUT COMPLEATLY FAIR AND REASONABLE

its like saying if your in a wheel chair you cant marry, where is the sence in it?
if i said that a law was going to be passed to stop people in wheel chairs marrying because it only encorages them you would think i had gone around the twist

no one would surport it as a law and no party would touch it because it would be concidered to hot to handle so why is this an issue?

you know what scares me?

People will actually vote based on this at this years election. They shouldnt have to, because it shouldnt be even THERE to be "voted on"

people should vote on things that there are actually 2 sides, logging, the enviroment, labor laws, free trade and tarifs, international law vs domestic freedoms ect

not wether jo blogs can screw and marry john smith

[Baal Zebul]

NO ONE PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE ELSE WHO TO SLEEP WITH

I think you have a answer there, people do not wish to be told what to do. They want to make their own choices (etc, who they will sleep with)
It is forbidden, therefore they do it and they are proud of it just so that they can believe that they matter.

[guthrie]

darktrooper, you can be born homosexual, as various people upthread have already said. See for example wellcooked fetus's post of a link.
Moreover, the neonatal influence hypothesis effectively takes care of your objection that homosexuals cant be born that way because if it was a genetic mutation it wouldnt be passed on.

[Baal Zebul]

if you are born with it then it could be seen as a disease. But it is impossible to say that it is a disease because it is outside the framework of what is normal.

For instance, i have 1.0 eye sight. if someone has 1.1, is it a disease? Well, it is sort of a disease but it does not mean that you are sick really.
Is homosexuallity that different?

However, this is just for those that are born with it. For the rest i stand for what i previously said were the parents or the environement is the source of homosexuallity.

[madanthonywayne]

The fact that individuals that are exclusively homosexual can not reproduce does not mean that one can not be born homosexual. Males with Down's syndrome are sterile, but there seem to plenty of them around every generation (many on this board). There are many genetic diseases that render you sterile yet they keep showing up either due to spontaneous mutations or the presence of "carriers" who are unaffected by the disorder but can pass it on to their young. In some cases, being a "carrier" can even be beneficial in some way such as Africans who are carriers for sickle cell disease are more resistant to maleria without suffering the negative consequences of the disease. Perhaps being a "carrier" for homosexuality makes males a little less agressive and less likely to be killed in some stupid testosterone induced battle.

[Asguard]

please anyone tell me how treating gays as HUMANS infringes on YOUR rights?

where you get the RIGHT to infringe on THERES

you dont here gays jumping up and down saying that man and women marrages should be banned do you?

[spuriousmonkey]

many homosexuals also have children.

[Baal Zebul]

now, that is sick!

should be outlawed

[Aborted_Fetus]

i agree baal

[Asguard]

why?

see thats the point
have you ever thought that they think screwing a girl (or guy respectivly) is gross?

when was the last time you let YOUR kids in your bedroom?

well what difference if they have 2 mums or dads?

give ONE rational statement about WHY you have a right to judge what 2 concenting adults do

and dont just ignore this like you have every other time

[Asguard]

I think you have a answer there, people do not wish to be told what to do. They want to make their own choices (etc, who they will sleep with)
It is forbidden, therefore they do it and they are proud of it just so that they can believe that they matter.


you know you are a real idiot

i dont sleep with my GF because its forbiden and i didnt look at going out with adam because it was forbiden

i looked at them that way because i felt there was something about them i liked and was atractive to me

now i could tell you my sexual fantasys but you would be horifide that i feel as much like giving it to a guy as i do to a girl and to be quite honest i dont see any difference and i have yet to see one of you idiots have the courage to answer the questions

first how does me sleeping with a guy or a girl in melbourne australia make ANY difference to you sitting at your house?

second why do you have the right to descriminate and infringe against me when i sleep with a guy but not when i sleep with a girl?

you know whats strange?
i never saw the part of the rape act that says concent must be given by ever man and his dog or that it must be given by the christan comunity

i must have missed that amendment but im SURE it says "2 concenting adults of legal age"

[Baal Zebul]

do, you see black and white people as different?

You obviously seem to seperate christians from others.

So, why are we not allowed to seperate homosexualls from hetrosexualls?

[Asguard]

no i dont see black or white or gay or straight or any other destintion as any different
i see PEOPLE which is something you are sorly lacking

i was brought up catholic and rejected it because the pope is STILL against what africa needs him to come out in favor of, condoms

why do i seperate christans?

STERIOTYPING actually

because it seems whenever this argument comes up the oposition ends up sprouting the bible and quite frankly im SICK AND TIRED of debating my sex life with idiots

and im right arnt i?

you are a "christan" but like ever so called "christan" you forgot the most important comandment of all "love one another as i have loved you"
not "love one another except the gays"

basically it comes down to what i do in MY house is none of your buiness, and if i was to have kids and was with a guy at the time (through adoption or other means) i cirtenly wouldnt give a shit wether YOU aproved or not. I can GARENTIEE the kids of gay parents are better off because at LEAST they might have SOME degree of tollerance

but you dont even know what being a person MEANS do you?
maybe you CANT see it because you have never seen how stupid this "debate" actually is and i should be understanding of your ignorance
maybe you have never watched a cute couple walk past and thought "if i kissed her people would whissle and cheer but if i kissed HIM they would kill me" maybe you have never sat and wondered why if my partner is a girl i can happerly help out the kids with the little scouts but if its a guy people would complaine. maybe you have never sat and wondered why your a different person depending who your going home to screw tonight

[Asguard]

B\w im still waiting for an answer as to what right you think you have

[Baal Zebul]

what am i lacking?

i see all humans as lesser mortals, i see all humans as parasites. I see humans as every other human do, but your parameters are simply more corrupt.

and what goes for my rights? well, no one here, no one that i do not know cannot matter enough to me to earn my respect.

[Bells]

do, you see black and white people as different?

You obviously seem to seperate christians from others.

So, why are we not allowed to seperate homosexualls from hetrosexualls?
Here in lies the issue. Homosexuals are seperate from hetrosexuals. Society's stupidity seperates them because society deems one to be bad and one to be good. Is it right to do so? No, because it has the same line of thought as racism. In the past and in the present, society saw black people as being inferior, therefore black people were given less rights. The same thing happens with the way society treats homosexuals. Homosexuals have less rights than hetrosexuals. If you're black and homosexual, then you're really screwed. Homosexuality is not a disease, just as having dark skin is not a disease.

[Facial]

Here in lies the issue. Homosexuals are seperate from hetrosexuals. Society's stupidity seperates them because society deems one to be bad and one to be good. Is it right to do so? No, because it has the same line of thought as racism. In the past and in the present, society saw black people as being inferior, therefore black people were given less rights. The same thing happens with the way society treats homosexuals. Homosexuals have less rights than hetrosexuals. If you're black and homosexual, then you're really screwed. Homosexuality is not a disease, just as having dark skin is not a disease.

Excellent.

Even if you think it IS A DISEASE, it ought not to be cured, since it gives homosexuals a type of superiority. By that, I mean that they are unable to reproduce and therefore prevent the spread of our vile 6000000000 + ant-like polluting greedy selfish stupid species.

[Athelwulf]

Here's a question I'd like to put out.

I understand that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality and all, but what if there were a homosexual who wanted to be a heterosexual? If there were a "cure", is there anything wrong with that person wanting and taking the cure?

By the way, I was not supporting the opinion that homosexuality should be cured or that it's curable by showing that hypothetical situation. So please don't get mad at me.

P.S. I would especially apreciate Asguard's answer. You are a great debator!

[Blue_UK]

A gay collegue is getting married (church wedding) to his boyfriend. If I mentioned a cure I doubt he would be very pleased!

Surely it would be best to be bi?! Then you'd have the 'best' of both worlds? Although the thought of it disgusts me, if it didn't then very obviously less things in the world would disgut me and I'd be happier. (Forgive the blatant tautology)

[Athelwulf]

Originally Posted by Blue_UK
A gay collegue is getting married (church wedding) to his boyfriend. If I mentioned a cure I doubt he would be very pleased!

Well obviously yer colleague is comfortable with his sexual orientation. What I was asking was would it be okay for someone to take the hypothetical cure if they so wished.

[Jenyar]

I think the stigma is because homosexuality is specifically a sexual preference. It specifies who you want to have sex with, not what your personality, politics or race is. As such, it has moral implications. The debate should be how implicit or explicit those moral implications are.

If you really want to take it apart in that context, you're argument will have to include whether you think something like bestiality is unwanted (or "a disease"), and how you draw the lines.

[duendy]

who is calling me a disease is the first question? i am Gay.
Are you bold enough to face me bare knuckle or what?

listen. look at the pattern. always look at the pattern. what did the nazis do? they called the Jews, Gays, etc diseased didn't they? they made films about it, a myth--of 'pure' (them, the nazis) and 'impure' (everyone not errr 'pure'), and the result of their vile beliefs caused unbelievable misery

so the atarter of this thread may feel it reeeel cute to title it that charming accusation, but i dont. it is evil, and not amusing

You remind me of that fool going round saying "Jesus hates faggots"...he should be VERy thankful that many of us aint snipers or he'd be face to face with his 'jesus' to see if its true

You share your sentiment of homosexuality being a 'disease' with psychiatry, before they all of a sudden changed their 'scientific daignosis' --just like that--and claimed 'sorry, no it isn't'...though some PRIVATELY!! still believe it is. more fool them

i dont personally believe anything the shrinks say. i don't believe in 'mental illness' it isn't proved. and ...some of my best friends are di-eased, and i LOVE em. so put that in your pipe and smoke it. add some of the good herb. it might make yer more inclusive of people that frighten you.

we don't bite. less we're forced

[Asguard]

Athelwulf i cant work out if you are being sarcastic or for real with that but i will give you my 2 cents in the form of a question

would people think there was anything wrong if there was a cure for HEDROsexual behavior and people wanted to take it?

[Blue_UK]

Well obviously yer colleague is comfortable with his sexual orientation. What I was asking was would it be okay for someone to take the hypothetical cure if they so wished.
Ts'ok, was not having a go u :)

[ripleofdeath]

Aborted_Fetus
+ if there was a cure for being ignorant and biggoted do you think the ignorant biggots would opt to take the cure?
-if there was a cure for sexual desire do you think people would opt to take the cure to avoid having to decide if they were going to have an abortion?
-how many parents would force their children to take the cure to remove the childs sexual desire so they would never have to deal with the idea of having an abortion/ unwanted pregnancy ?

how many people with above average Intellegence think those with average Intellegence need to be cured?

if by some chance there is anyone who comes to learn more of the facts behind such things like sexuality in this life time then they might be surprised at how childish they have been with their lack of understanding of things that to others are quite logicaly obviouse.
if you beleive in god then how more clever could god be than to challenge your level of evolution than with such ideas of biggotry as what is the path to love you might ask yourself.
if you dont beleive in god then why would it matter anyway.
AND what type of cure is required for wanting to be involved "uninvited" in someone elses sex life by telling them what they can and cant do?

[Blue_UK]

AND what type of cure is required for wanting to be involved "uninvited" in someone elses sex life by telling them what they can and cant do?

Interestingly put, but a good point.

I agree with you but for the sake of argument I'd have to make reference to culture - some people are offended by homosexuality in the same way that most people are offended by paedophilia or Graham Norton. Perhaps their 'right' to living without disgust is that deviants (strictly in the literal sence) from the norm should practice whatever it is that they do behind closed doors.

[Baal Zebul]

i still have difficulties understanding what the word homosexual means. Of course i know what it means but to me it seems to have so many meanings.
Some might be sexual homosexuals, just interested in having sex with induviduals of the same sex.
Some might be "female" homosexuals. (sorry for that word), what i mean is that some might not see themselves as the Macho man and enjoy things that are considered female, etc the Fab 5 crew.
Some might be Gay. people who are simply homosexuals, might not be interested in the sex, nor house interiors. They might be "normal" persons, everyday people that just have different "views"

The only one of these 3 that i can see remotely related to a disease is the first.
Is this a mental or a physical disease if that is the case ?

[Esoteric]

i still have difficulties understanding what the word homosexual means. Of course i know what it means but to me it seems to have so many meanings.

A good deal of americans do have "gay feelings" homosexuality in humans isn't binary, its not just gay or straight. It comes in scale.

To simplify imagine their is a 10 point scale 1 =naturally revolted by gayness 10 = completely wrist flapingly gay. Most people are somewhere between 1 and 10 on that scale. Thats why things like bisexuals exist.

It also explains other things. Like why so many americans, especially males, hate faggots so much. Social taboo's and norms(and religion ) make them ashamed of some urges that leeds to self hatred and over compensation and projection to homophobia.

You know how over the last 10 years it became cool for women to kiss each other, well the reason is because social norms shifted and lots of females that were not gay but scored high enough on the scale to be curious decided to try.

"Curious" dudes are really worried that if the social norms shifted their curiosity would increase, and their self loathing kicks in

So yes, if you care as much as aborted fetus and Zebul, you have some feelings.

lol...
http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html

[Vidd]

1. There are two suggested causes for homosexuality. The first is a genetic imbalance while the baby is being born. The second is abnormal behavior during childhood - for instance, a girl who is brought up by only a father is more likely to become homosexual than if she was brought up by both a mother and father. Some people (like me) believe it's a combination of the two.

2. You can stop with the meaningless "oh yeah? Well society said blacks were bad!" stuff, etc. Suppose someone told me why they thought worm holes existed and could transport you through time. How much sense would it make if I replied "oh yeah? Well scientists used to say the world was flat, so HA!"

3. I really don't think homosexuality can be classified as a "disease." I may be against homosexuality, but that's like rock 'n roll listeners trying to find a cure for people who like country music, or democrats trying to find a "cure" for republicans.

4. Human beings, by nature, strive to accomplish two things: to survive and to enjoy themselves. Anything you do can be traced down to one of these things. A man goes over and talks to a pretty lady he saw earlier, who he's never met before. Why? A. Because, ultimately, it is human nature to want to find a mate and reproduce (survival), and therefore we enjoy doing such (on the second point, we naturally enjoy most acts which continue our survival). The real difference in us from other animals is, obviously, our intelligence. We don't rely on hunting skills to get food, we develop weapons. We don't have lungs that let us take one breath every hour, we invent air tanks. We have difficulty in naturally combating disease, so we develop means to kill disease before it enters our body, and use technology to tell us what is poisonous and what isn't.

Back on survival: much of our lives, culture and society is based on reproduction. We make ourselves look and smell good to be more attractive to a potential mate. Sexuality is arguably the leading method of drawing attention to commercials, magazines, etc. People enjoy pornography because it stimulates the part of their mind that thinks about reproduction. They enjoy pictures etc. of people engaged in acts of reproduction because they naturally enjoy partaking in reproduction themselves. How can you possibly argue that homosexuality is a part of human nature, then, when it goes against our natural psyche? Of course, it's entirely reasonable to enjoy homosexuality to an extent - it's been mentioned that certain animals partake in sexual acts with other animals of the same sex, but that hardly means that they'd never attempt to find a mate and reproduce. That's absurd.

Also, I'm hearing a couple arguments based on such ideas as "Evolution has a grand plan for human reproduction" or "maybe heterosexuals are being eliminated by nature." For Pete's sake, I really think in a discussion like this the last thing we need are unrealistic, outdated theories like [macro] evolution. At least find something plausible to base your argument on.

[ripleofdeath]

Blue_UK
quote
I agree with you but for the sake of argument I'd have to make reference to culture - some people are offended by homosexuality in the same way that most people are offended by paedophilia or Graham Norton. Perhaps their 'right' to living without disgust is that deviants (strictly in the literal sence) from the norm should practice whatever it is that they do behind closed doors.
---
thankyou for responding directly and helping to highlight a rather interesting
way some people think.
regarding the idea that violent attack in a sexual context can be likened to consenting sex between two adults.
its seems that most often those who are brainwashed and intellectualy stunted people
have a certain range of beleife systems and you have reminded me of that, which is extreemly relavent in this particular issue.
unfortunately those who are raised with and controlled by fear as most self acclaimed religouse people are, can rarely find the inner strength to break free of the fear that permiates every aspect of their own thought processes.

by using the same form of analogy such people do about this type of topic, it would be simple logic to suggest the moral vacume that must exist for the need to go every week to a place they call a church, it seems people who have levels of hypocracy set in their childhood through such brain washing rarely make it out of the cycle of fear and represion of the free spirit that is soo profoundly accentuated through the arts, and more specificly inter human relations and emotional intellegence and personality development.
:)
P.S
there is just such a HUGE gap in the knolledge and related intelegence in most of those who have posted for me to consider discussing anyones posts,
it would take pages and pages to get back to a point of zero to start from.

[Athelwulf]

Athelwulf i cant work out if you are being sarcastic or for real with that . . .

Don't worry. My question is for real.

would people think there was anything wrong if there was a cure for HEDROsexual behavior and people wanted to take it?

I don't get what yer asking. Here's my thinking behind my question.

It's obvious that many people are against homosexuality. Well, take for example a homosexual that has grown up around these people. Then they'd be insecure with themselves. I figure they'd want to change. Ya can bombard them with everything at yer arsenal telling them they are okay, but I don't think that would work. Should we allow them to change themselves, or should we deny them the chance because the majority of homosexuals believe there's nothing wrong with them?

[Vidd]

Should we allow them to change themselves, or should we deny them the chance because the majority of homosexuals believe there's nothing wrong with them?

Hmm? If I get what you're saying then, no, I don't see any reason (or method...) of "denying" them the chance to change.

[Asguard]

Athelwulf what i was asking is would the genral population of people here who surport finding a "cure" be just as surportive if a hedrosexual wanted to be "cured" and become homosexual?

As for your question what if it was an aborigional growing up around racists like my family?

I would say they need to see a counciler because NONE of us can cure who we are, if that ment that they eventually changed sex's or took some cure then that is there choice but i find sad that it would come to finding a "cure" for who we are

so no i wouldnt deny them that right but i would hate those who forced them to it

[ripleofdeath]

Asguard
Good Luck trying to explain :D
im not sure if you read my post or not , ... but
as you could see there was no understanding of your comment, this is because of two main reasons either they are young and have yet to reach an age where they can think intelegently, or they are brainwashed and mentaly retarded by it so they have walls and lies that construct their reality that they can not just challenge because of the teaching of fear that resides in their hearts placed by their peers groups and parents and church members.
no doubt they would think they were doing aborininal people a great service forcing their own religion on them and making them dress like puppets and walk around like zombie clones
:)

[Asguard]

Or maybe it was because i didnt even read your post and was responding to someone else?

[ripleofdeath]

Asguard
quote
Or maybe it was because i didnt even read your post and was responding to someone else?
---
yes....
i am aware who you were addressing your post to!
what did you expect?
i will put it a different way in hope it is understood better.
you are trying to explain something to someone who is incapable of understanding it.
that is why i said good luck,
it seems most people speed read these boards often
and then err on the side of expected insult

# a great proportion of the posters on this board seem to dwell within the disfunctional teenager mind set regardless of their stated age.
so sarcastic and spitefull and quick to bite when confused , are all normal things here now so it seems.
inspite of this being the human science area this topic is a prime example of the religouse nutter/bible bashers trying to hijack science with ignorance and fear.
:)

[duendy]

Esoterik...good explanation about how sexuality is more spectrum than black&white

Vid....i am a male Queer, who is horny. tell, me. you can be as honest as you like. i can take it like a man..hehe

what would you do if i was sat in front of you and couldn't help myself but carress one of your knees, hopefully hairy, big and square, protruding through your ripped jeans...errrm excuse me( ! ), ok, continuuing. would you,

A) go into 'homosexual-fear panic' and pulverize me, so much so, that detectives finding my body the next day --hardened officers--would wince from the aftermath of what your fear had done?

B) been very viscious with anti-homosexual
verbal abuse whilst knockin my hand away?

C) politely told me you weren't that way and would i please remove me hand

D) open your legs a little, finding yourself becomin a litte hard?

E) something i haven't thought of?

[Asguard]

im sorry, i miss read your post. I thought you were calling me an interlectual retard. Sorry

[ripleofdeath]

not at all
it has been my experience that you Asguard have a god grasp of many complexities of such things :)
and i try not to name names in regard to others opinons and try to keep such definitions in a genralised manner as far as thinking and thought processes are concerned because i believe most people have the capacity to change and learn more.
it is more often though that thier surroundings , peer presure community presure, will not allow them room to grow.
mix that with the programming by parents and related groups while they were growing up forming their ability to reason and use fluid frontal lobe thought it is a difficult struggle for most of those such people.

[ripleofdeath]

duendy
hahahahaha
thats funny :D
given certain issues such as the related social forces toward making anythign outside the little box a evil devil incarnate, it just occured to me about the rape and violence sexualy orientated to some extent that could be devided into self claimed hetrosexual and homosexual groups and wonder if the actual percentage of sexualy related crime is equal or disspropotionate toward one sexual orientation than the other.
i am aware of the 4 basic brain differences those being homo, hetro, hermaphodite & others (others being a complex mix of varying types that i wont get into)
because of the slow process of social evolution that has not kept up with science evolution some of the realaties of these differences are no doubt kept secret or ignored.
one thing i find often to be a good reality check is the often made colaboration by those who have surrefed from creed type nurture in a biggoted sence, be that religouse of culturaly religouse to staunch shovenistic communities,
often associate consenting sexual action between two adults to be no different than violent attack and sexual predation toward others.
lets hope people who think in such ways never get burdened with life and death decisions of others as it would be a fair assumtion that their base of logic is servearly disturbed.
:)

[Vidd]

Vid....i am a male Queer, who is horny. tell, me. you can be as honest as you like. i can take it like a man..hehe

From such a vague post it's hard to tell. Well, if someone I didn't know came up to me and started doing what you stated, I would be creeped out by (in the words of James Garner) your "willful invasion of my personal space." As for someone I DID know - well, I don't know anyone who would do that.

[apolo]

I wonder why some people use the word "homophobia" as a swear word or a derogatory word? Homophobia is a phobia like other phobias such as clotrophobia. And I admit I have both phobias.The reason I got homophobia is, that I read an article in a magazine which descibed some of the practises homosecsuals engaged in as foreplay, (I wont descibe them here) that I got so revolted that I had to go to the sink and throw up (honestly). I talked to my doctor about it, and he said, there is no pill I can give you to cure you of this, just stay away from homosexuals and small rooms.

[Repo Man]

What practice do gays engage in that us hetero's don't do as well?

[Undecided]

Disco!

[Repo Man]

I meant in the sense of "that we don't do also". But you knew that.

[Undecided]

Well homosexuals and heterosexuals can pretty much do the same thing.

[Halcyon]

I actually wanted to bring up the subject of some homosexual males that I know who desired a "cure" for homosexuality earlier on in this thread, but someone beat me to it. Looking at the lack of insightful feedback from those that from the outset condemned such an idea, I'm glad I decided to restrain myself from doing so.

However, since we're on the subject "homosekshuhl practices," (last few posts),
If a guy wants to take his wife in the ass, does that mean he's an unrealized homosexual?

[Repo Man]

You know Apolo, I wonder if you can even masturbate if you are that freaked out. I mean, you do realize that masturbation involves putting your hand on a penis!

[gendanken]

However, since we're on the subject "homosekshuhl practices," (last few posts),
If a guy wants to take his wife in the ass, does that mean he's an unrealized homosexual?
Not unless his wife's name is Julio.

Since we're wanting to cure homosexuality in this thread, we might as well inquire on curing sneezing and pubes.

[guthrie]

I know! cut off noses, and shave pubes. To be ensured by compulsory public inspection, or rather everyone should walk around naked!

[gendanken]

Guth:
I know! cut off noses, and shave pubes. To be ensured by compulsory public inspection, or rather everyone should walk around naked!
*funeral grin*

There are 7 people in this lab here with me- 2 of them overweight, 3 the kind of female you'd find on a farm or a slaughterhouse, and all of them conducive to vomiting.
You really want the common American walking around naked?

On topic:
We should also cure defecation, itching, and that annoying rush of blood to the clit when one's horny.

[Dreamwalker]

and that annoying rush of blood to the clit when one's horny.

hmm, vaginal circumcision...


We should also cure defecation, itching

How about cutting out parts of the central nervous system?

[gendanken]

Dreamwalker:
How about cutting out parts of the central nervous system?
9 out of 10 people on this forum already have a butchered central nervous system.
All neurons have been transfered and attached to the colon.

[Dreamwalker]

Ok, you have validated my suspicions.

[Facial]

Aborted_Fetus
+ if there was a cure for being ignorant and biggoted do you think the ignorant biggots would opt to take the cure?
-if there was a cure for sexual desire do you think people would opt to take the cure to avoid having to decide if they were going to have an abortion?
-how many parents would force their children to take the cure to remove the childs sexual desire so they would never have to deal with the idea of having an abortion/ unwanted pregnancy ?

how many people with above average Intellegence think those with average Intellegence need to be cured?

if by some chance there is anyone who comes to learn more of the facts behind such things like sexuality in this life time then they might be surprised at how childish they have been with their lack of understanding of things that to others are quite logicaly obviouse.
if you beleive in god then how more clever could god be than to challenge your level of evolution than with such ideas of biggotry as what is the path to love you might ask yourself.
if you dont beleive in god then why would it matter anyway.
AND what type of cure is required for wanting to be involved "uninvited" in someone elses sex life by telling them what they can and cant do?

Excellent post.

[Facial]

The better, or at least predominant conclusion: Homosexuality is not a disease.

[duendy]

...also lets look at theunexamined premised term being used "DISEASE" lets break it down--de-contruct it's etymology...ie., "DIS-EASE" when you are not at ease. it also means 'lesion' and all th biological diseases

what the psychiatric establishment did/done is try and use this term to mean socially un-accept-able behaviour.

When it WAs termed disease--ie., 'homosexuality' that was the MYTH, yeah. AWFUL times!...because you would have people who felt sexual attraction for their own sex who believed they had a disease cause the psychiatrists bible...the DSM...told them so...culture told them so. so some would feel dis-eased, in regard not right in themselves--i dont mean biological diseased.more psychological distress, and/or psychosomatic distress. so in their gullibility they would go see the doc. and doc would also be right at the front line of this myth, and he'd refer 'patient' to a psychiatrist. and then all the shit happens. all the way to ignorant men torturing Gay males...cutting bits out...ECT etc etc all in the religion of 'helping' them to be 'normal'

thank FUCK that's all done with. though many still do believe this crap, hence this thread. i am not putting it donw however, cause it opens it up for debate, rather than covery homophobia. closet homophobia

[alain]

in reply to post no 1

i get it!! its a joke. im too smart to fall for your sarcasm. Now lets just assume for one second that you are serious about this topic...

first off, depression is not a disease... it's a mental condition

hmm. are you one of those extremist darwinsts??? so, if i killed of the weaker half of the population, would that be alright by you? nature did intend survival of the fittest

whilst gays may not be able to have children (yet... cloning and all that is advancing rapidly) that doesnt mean that they dont have a positive effect on society. they teach acceptance and tolerance, of the beauty of two of the same sex together, and pass this knowledge on through teaching, rather then genetics

[spuriousmonkey]

Apparently it would be possible that the homosexual trait leads to greater offspring and hence had evolutionary benefits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3735668.stm

[s0meguy]

Homosexuality is a matter of preference. Which is based on hormones.

Which is the same as your preference for women that have big boobs or small boobs, blond hair or black hair. Which is also based on hormones.

[spuriousmonkey]

apparently researchers would like to disagree with your opinion.

[Dr Lou Natic]

Interesting article spurious. But this shit;
"The important thing is getting equality for homosexual people."
Pisses me off to no end, as it should any scientifically minded person.
Thats not the "important thing" with researching homosexuality, its not even a related issue, its ethics and none of science's business.
Why, if homosexuality is brought up, do people need to mention that we should treat homo-sexuals fairly, even when thats got nothing to do with the topic. Its almost like they don't want any scientific research done in case it hurts feelings.
Exact same thing with race, it can't be looked at without someone bringing up "racism" and trying to sabotage the science on the subject. We need to grow up.

[spuriousmonkey]

It makes me sick too that scientists are supposed to be politically correct. I suspect that it is more statistally abundant that a scientific view would go against political correctness since science is supposed to deal with the truth and not ideals.

[slotty]

I'm a lesbian, the only problem i have is that i'm trapped in a mans body :D

[slotty]

But on a serious note, i have a few mates who are gay ( guys and gals) , and they are all really great people. I think aborted fetus has been chatted up by a gay and was horrified to realise that he was attracted to the guy. Hence all his homophobia bollox. Just an idea ?

[duendy]

so dr lunatic...do YOU like being treated fairly?....well, do ya?...well me--a Queer--so do i. and so does everyone regarding what ever you call them

tell you what i would like. these silly fuked up science boys tellin me whats what about being Gay. have they not got other stuff to do. go and check out WBushes fukin genes, and leave us afukinlone!

and hehe, no i'm not read and fumin typing this. i am cool and fumin

[duendy]

i promise you i am not saying this just for effect:

when i read your name, i immediately intuited you would be anti-Queer...i mouthed to myself 'Oh aye, what hve we here"...i opened post, read the first few senstences, and my intuition was proved correct. not bad for a Queer huh?......

don't know if you are serious or a provoker. all i can say is that you are a complte ignoramous

[guthrie]

Dwayne is an ignoramus, he can regularly be found posting weird stuff about whatever unscientific thing you can find, from UFO's to well, anything.
Just to be related to the tpoic:
Dwayne wrote:
"In biology scientifcally any male of the human species can make a transformation from male to female, or from female to male. where this is true for males it is not so for females, females do not have the genentic ablity to cause for a physical transformation from female to male."

ye whit? You mean we can all change gender? Great, I can see people queueing up for it now!

[duendy]

((guthrie)))...just as i suspected. It is inevitable Dwane woud feel that men can change into women, but not vice versa. for in my research and experience those homophobic are also mysoginist or gynaphobic...ie., it reads like 'no way could a woman 'aspire' to "man-level'

[ElectricFetus]

duendy,

Ignore Dwayne, he just a kook and he like it when people complain about him, don't give him what he wants.

[Facial]

The better, or at least predominant conclusion: Homosexuality is not a disease.

I shall reiterate this yet again, since this useless thread (which, in my opinion, ought to be closed) was resurrected:

The better, or at least predominant conclusion: homosexuality is NOT a disease.

[WildBlueYonder]

you make lots of assumptions thinking that they are scientific (because they sound scientific to you), but it is all bullshit. Nobody knows why people are homosexual. so, what are your assumptions? what causes Homo Sapiens Sapien Homo? (Knowning Man, that Knows he's Gay)

In fact there are probably a million (or a billion) reasons why people are homosexual. why would nature produce a biological 'deadend'? the "nature of Nature is to reproduce", what lifeform does not reproduce?, what are genes for, if not to pass on? prove me wrong.

Why all those 'natural germs', make us sick to our tummy, what, with all their "reproduction gone wild", all those little wigglies like to reproduce real bad, we need more 'gay germs', so that they can just love each other & leave us alone, we need more 'gay whales', so that they can hurry up & become extinct, we need more 'gay terrorists', so that they can go around splashing us with non-lethal "avocado green" paint-bombs, oh how dreadful!!! The pain!!! The Shame!!! Such a “'so-yesterday' color!!!
http://boards.bravotv.com/bb/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=QueerEye&Number=14537&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=5

One of them could be that homosexuality could be an evolutionary advantage.& what would that be? evolve into what? Homosexuality is a cultural construct, practiced by males that never learned the proper way to “date & mate”, or found the short-cut to sex on demand, (a bunch of horny men) & by females that had one to many men rape them, mistreat them, or lie to them

[s0meguy]

homosexuality is a preference based on hormones. the same as whether you like big boobs or small boobs.

[ElectricFetus]

No breast size preferences are more to do with environmental persuasion. Only sexual preference has evidence of being set by fetal hormone exposures. In studies with identical twins preference of the appearance of a mate had little correlation (exp: one twin like blonds with big boobs the other does not) but homosexuality was correlated: if one twin was gay it was very likely the other was as well.

[WildBlueYonder]

Only sexual preference has evidence of being set by fetal hormone exposures. In studies with identical twins preference of
....
but homosexuality was correlated: if one twin was gay it was very likely the other was as well.
sounds like 'gay' science to me, where were they doing their research? has it been published? where? where did they get their grants, are they 'gay', links please, thanks

[ElectricFetus]

Yes: look up identical twin studies on homosexuals, also look up rate fetus hormone exposure studies.

[guthrie]

And if its a preference based on hormones, someguy, perhaps you can link us to studies showing what hormones and how much or how little corretlate to homosexuality.

[Insanely Elite]

WOW, 9 pages.
I only scanned the pages.
Has anyone mentioned the ancient Spartans?
Best warriors of their age.
Faggots, the lot of 'em.(well not ALL)

Seriously, nothing new under the sun here.
Spartan society was considered the most stable of the ancient world.
Nothing unnatural.
Homosexuality in mammals is common.

If the concern is from a concerned conservative christian, please quote the scripture for your overt obtuse opinion.
If you're on a scientific search, your hypothisis of abnormality has been thwarted 30 years ago by peer review by the American Psychiatric Association iirc.
Regarding the guardianship of social acceptability, who appointed you?

The point is made in this thread time and again of the Orwellian consequences of such a control to society. In America, it's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness(I hope that's not ending today). Exactly where in the constitution do gay citizens recieve such condemnation. Sodomy laws have been repealed in everystate by judicial review as being unconstitutional iirc.

Why not just title the thread "Me and my buddies don't like them faggots, they're unnatural" It's more intellectually honest.

[ElectricFetus]

You mean like this?
http://sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3402&stc=1
(source: The Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick)

[Facial]

Looks like there are still homophobes trolling around.

Time to bash 'em.

[Sky]

""Humans are not supposed to be attracted to the same sex. Our bodies were designed perfectly for one male and one female""

Sounds convincing

[Sky]

Q : Is there any homosexuality in the animal kingdom ?

[what768]

Q : Is there any homosexuality in the animal kingdom ?

Yes.

I think it's possible to change sexuality. Like, if you're a man, you start thinking about men sexually, (against the will of your body) then you become bisexual> homosexual. But homosexual people propably don't choose to begin thinking about the other sex just like that, but something happens that leads them to think that way. So homosexuality may not be in the genes, but in our mind. If we wouldn't think about girls or boys, we wouldn't have any sexuality, but our hormones usually win over our will. Just a theory.

[duendy]

yes there is same sex sheenanigins in the animals world......apes, dogs, dolphins to name a few
with us, erotic imagination is a major factor. we ned to get over this 'you are this that'.....this is binary thinking. its more we are ambiguous. if you get stuck in i am THIS, and you are the 'other', THAT's where all the violence begins. th violence is a reaction to FEAR of being engulfed. ie., you are distrusting your very self. what you might be capable of......!

[ElectricFetus]

I have seen homosexuality in animals first hand. I can say with some confidence domestic ducks use it as a means of enforcing dominance over each other. I remember a very funny a ig-nobel awared last year going to the first documented case of homosexual necrophilia in wild ducks... I have seen it in domestic ducks first had, more like raped to death and then some, in which case it is not funny :mad:
http://science.slashdot.org/science/03/10/03/138243.shtml?tid=133&tid=134&tid=162&tid=186&tid=99

[duendy]

yeah, same with hetero sex animal sex sometimes i should suppose. don't know about ducks, but i dont think same sex Dolphin sex is completely dominator-specific.......we shouldn't generalize anyhow
in human affiars you have same sex domination, opposite sex domination, and lots of other non-deomination varieities of sexuality

[android]

Sodomy until death is funny in any circumstance. What else can you do but laugh?

Prison sex isn't necessarily gay sex, but I believe gays are a natural occurrence. However, when too many sexual deviants, fat people, drug addicts, etc. show up in a society you know it's heading down the toilet.

[Johnny Bravo]

Ducks-
Makes you wonder how they could rape till death occurs...they could have that much control over orgasm and erection? Unless the old people are throwing viagra rather than bread crumbs at the local duck pond.

[ElectricFetus]

Well apparently when you have another duck on top of you for several hours you end up with breathing problems. We once had this nice white male duck but he was littler then the muscovy ducks, so he was automatically their bitch, anyways the geese are like the morality police and they would usually come to the rescue of that little white duck. “Lucky” (that’s the name of the big African goose, he is imprinted on people and likes to have sex with your boots) was always extra mothering to that duck, well one day I found that duck with a muscovys on top and another muscovy on top of him (not a pretty sight) and the little white duck was dead, flatten I might add. Lucky most have let him out of his sight. These muscovys are horrible raping machines! After the white duck they fucked their own mother to death, she was still alive when we found her but should could not walk and died soon after… probably trauma of being raped by her own children for a whole night. The Muscovys also killed the only two wild breed ducks we had, the female was drown by being raped in a pond, the other (male) was found flattened. Muscovys have even tried to mount the chickens but thankfully they can out run the ducks and the roosters hammer them for touching their women. But when we got the Turkey the Muscovys finally got their punishment: the Turkey imprinted on humans does still get turned on watching the duck do it, and when he jumps on top they discontinue and run.

and no I'm not joking this is for real.

[WildBlueYonder]

Muscovys finally got their punishment: the Turkey imprinted on humans does still get turned on watching the duck do it, and when he jumps on top they discontinue and run.

and no I'm not joking this is for real.stop writing porn, you story-teller you, you have an active imagination

[WildBlueYonder]

Looks like there are still homophobes trolling around.

Time to bash 'em.really? such a call to violence! what a dreadful troll you are, you must be Christophobe

[ElectricFetus]

Randolfo,

If you don't believe me I could take pictures of it, better get your bestiality checked first.

Facial did not exactly propose homophobes were Christians, you did, that quite a generalized statement there, can your prove that Christians are homophobes?

[pixel]

My sister's pet conure, who is female, has had a major crush on my sister's pet lovebird, who is also female, for the longest time. Apparently they make out too. And the lovebird has laid eggs, too -- how'dya like THEM apples? Poor things. And nary a dildo or strap-on in sight.

[ElectricFetus]

My pet Quaker Parrot is female and she manages to get off by rubbing her ass on things, she pants while jerking off to, its nasty to hear.

[pixel]

Electric, is she gay? 'Cause if she's gay, try pinning up a pic of Foghorn Leghorn or some other male bird in front of her cage. Maybe she'll get so turned off that her homosexual disease/problem will short-circuit her urge to defile her body like that.

Honestly now. Gay AND slutty AND self-pleasuring... These birds are going straight to hell.

[WildBlueYonder]

Has anyone mentioned the ancient Spartans?
Best warriors of their age.
Faggots, the lot of 'em.(well not ALL) just some of the warriors, they thought they would fight harder, if they had to defend their lovers
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/greekeros.html


Seriously, nothing new under the sun here.lets see, the ancient Romans loved pedophilia, I understand that it was common for grandfathers to poke their grandsons, so, should that be allowed now too? I mean, if it was sexually common in the ancient world, it must be normal, right? So, you see, all those Roman Catholic priests, why they are just reverting to form, so don't condemn them, they're just doing what comes naturally, right?
http://www.daretospeak.net/paiderastia/modern.html
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/greece.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=catamite



Spartan society was considered the most stable of the ancient world.stable? most warlike, you mean. Say, are you saying that Sparta is an ideal or normal society? Say look up Spartan history & military training, they took kids from their parents at age 7, then raised them as warriors in barracks, say? Would that be why they took up with males? I mean, no girls, all those sweaty, athletic bodies, raging hormones, so they took up with their bunkmates, never having learned the proper “dating & mating” of a more normal society. Lets see you live under those conditions;
join the Army, you big sweaty, athletic guy!
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/aegean/thecities/sparta.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/xenophon-spartanwar.html


Nothing unnatural.
Homosexuality in mammals is common. you mean in domestic or wild? & to what purpose? there is no biological reason for it, if nature is the one in control, what good does it do for passing on genes? According to Darwin, what is the purpose of nature? Is it not survival of the 'fittest'? & the passing on of all those 'fit' genes? Or did I miss something in biology class?
http://home.wxs.nl/~gkorthof/korthof62.htm


If the concern is from a concerned conservative christian, please quote the scripture for your overt obtuse opinion. such name calling, such overt obtuse behavior! For shame, for shame! btw, are christians allowed their opinions, or are we under the rules of the PC mind & thought police?
http://www.libertocracy.com/Webessays/religion/persecution/Anti-Christian_Persecution.htm



If you're on a scientific search, your hypothisis of abnormality has been thwarted 30 years ago by peer review by the American Psychiatric Association iirc. ah, those healers of the mind? takes them years, if at all, if at all to cure loonies, lets see, have they cured Hinkley? Have they cured Manson? Did they cure the insane homeless? Have they cured all those pedophiles? What success have they had recently? Drugs? is Psych even a “hard” science? Nope, pretty 'soft' if you ask me, I think that the pysch profession was infiltrated by 'gays', for 2 reasons;
1)some because they thought that if they became pysch's, they could cure themselves &
2)others, so that they could could change the 'official' stance on homosexuality.

They just need hope to rationalize their abnormal behavior, a thin thread to hang on to.

[guthrie]

"I mean, if it was sexually common in the ancient world, it must be normal, right? So, you see, all those Roman Catholic priests, why they are just reverting to form, so don't condemn them, they're just doing what comes naturally, right?"

Ahh, presumably you think we're still back in the ancient world, and its alright to use religious justifications to hate people?

"you mean in domestic or wild? & to what purpose? there is no biological reason for it, if nature is the one in control, what good does it do for passing on genes? According to Darwin, what is the purpose of nature? Is it not survival of the 'fittest'? & the passing on of all those 'fit' genes? Or did I miss something in biology class?"

No biological reason? Part of the point of evolution is that things happen for no reason. Yet that homosexuals dont necessarily breed yet there are still homosexuals suggests that it is not a trait readily available to natural selection.

"such name calling, such overt obtuse behavior! For shame, for shame! btw, are christians allowed their opinions, or are we under the rules of the PC mind & thought police?"

Well, are you offended by being called a conservative christian? Certainly, nobody is denying you the right to your opinion, merely the right to force it on other people.

"ah, those healers of the mind? takes them years, if at all, if at all to cure loonies, lets see, have they cured Hinkley? Have they cured Manson? Did they cure the insane homeless? Have they cured all those pedophiles? What success have they had recently? Drugs? is Psych even a “hard” science? Nope, pretty 'soft' if you ask me, I think that the pysch profession was infiltrated by 'gays', for 2 reasons;
1)some because they thought that if they became pysch's, they could cure themselves &
2)others, so that they could could change the 'official' stance on homosexuality."

And you have any evidence for any of that rant at all? LIke a list of Phsyche doctors who are homosexual? Or have you perhaps got some psych hospital experience like a couple of my friends, who have known many really mad people, and wouldnt class homosexuals as mad, because there is nothing wrong with them biochemically.

[Insanely Elite]

Hey Randolfo,


just some of the warriors, they thought they would fight harder, if they had to defend their lovers

Which proves gay men can fight with the elite troops of the age.

lets see, the ancient Romans loved pedophilia, I understand that it was common for grandfathers to poke their grandsons, so, should that be allowed now too? I mean, if it was sexually common in the ancient world, it must be normal, right? So, you see, all those Roman Catholic priests, why they are just reverting to form, so don't condemn them, they're just doing what comes naturally, right?

This discussion is homosexuality is a disease, no one is talking of pedophilia but you.


stable? most warlike, you mean.

No I meant stable. As a student of history, I've often come upon the reference that they are considered the most stable society in the ancient world. Nearly unchanged in 400 years iirc. Which, by inference, demonstrates that gay men are not an inherent threat to society.

Say, are you saying that Sparta is an ideal or normal society?

There is no ideal or normal society. It's all relative.

Say look up Spartan history & military training, they took kids from their parents at age 7, then raised them as warriors in barracks,

I know what they did. Did you know in America, children are taken at age 5 to be indoctrinated to the mores of social acceptability?

say?Would that be why they took up with males? I mean, no girls, all those sweaty, athletic bodies, raging hormones, so they took up with their bunkmates, never having learned the proper “dating & mating” of a more normal society.

'Dating & Mating' in the context of history, is abnormal. Arranged marriages were the norm and still is the norm in many nations. That you suggest it is the 'proper' course is telling.

join the Army, you big sweaty, athletic guy!

Been there, done that

you mean in domestic or wild?

Why do you ask when it doesn't matter and you are obviously not interested. Homosexuality exists in mammals. Wild or tame.

& to what purpose?

I haven't given it much thought. Animals demonstrate homosexuality. It is therefore by definition natural. If you're curious you could ask the next time you are at the zoo or barn.

there is no biological reason for it, if nature is the one in control, what good does it do for passing on genes? According to Darwin, what is the purpose of nature? Is it not survival of the 'fittest'? & the passing on of all those 'fit' genes? Or did I miss something in biology class?

Are you suggesting abstinance unless procreating? That's no fun.

such name calling, such overt obtuse behavior! For shame, for shame! btw, are christians allowed their opinions, or are we under the rules of the PC mind & thought police?

I thought I was being moderate. I am seeking understanding. I've never read a biblical passage that denounces homosexuality. I have never denied that I am a follower of Jesus. As long as you don't propose the violent overthrow of America you 'should' be safe from the thought police.

ah, those healers of the mind? takes them years, if at all, if at all to cure loonies, lets see, have they cured Hinkley? Have they cured Manson? Did they cure the insane homeless? Have they cured all those pedophiles? What success have they had recently? Drugs? is Psych even a “hard” science? Nope, pretty 'soft' if you ask me, I think that the pysch profession was infiltrated by 'gays', for 2 reasons;
1)some because they thought that if they became pysch's, they could cure themselves &
2)others, so that they could could change the 'official' stance on homosexuality.
They just need hope to rationalize their abnormal behavior, a thin thread to hang on to.

The A.P.A. is the nations foremost group of psychiatrists. It is they that the US goes to for definition of abnormal behavior. You are proposing a grand conspiracy here. While I can respect that on the one hand, on the other it sounds sort of 'pod people' to me.

I want to reitterate that tolerance for homosexuals is the law of the land. Apparently another intolerant gay basher took up arms today. This time to shoot Sigfried and Roy. Surely, Randolfo ,you do not approve of this. I don't see anywhere in your post that you make a relevant statement other than you dislike this notion of Homosexuals.

[ElectricFetus]

Randolfo,

Homosexuality in animals is look at as a natural error, in many cases bisexuality is allowed and beneficial to selfish genetic survival in some animal social structures.

[Reiko_Watari]

homosexuality is quite natural. back in ancient times people could not really care if you were gay or not. you cannot choose to be gay anymore than you cannot choose who your biological parents are. when i was six, a guy named matthew shepard died because he was gay. he was raped on a trip with his college class because he was gay. he came back home to recover only to be tricked, beaten, robbed, and left for the dead because he was gay. a runner found him in the morning, he died a week later. i began to learn of homosexuality when i was 9. i was appalled that people were taking stands against someone else's personal life. they have nothing to do with it.
aborted fetus, you say it's unnatural. when people cry, they get tired, sleepy, and gain headaches. after i cry, i feel rejuvinated, more alive. does that make me unnatural? only twice in my life have i gotten sick while crying, once was when i was reading something that made me utterly depressed and the other was when i heard about matthew shepard. there is no such thing as being 'natural'. christian's sodomy is actually about bad hospitality and rape. sodomites are people who live in sodom. and in the biblical languages there is no word for homosexuality or sex.
also, christians think that witch craft is being connected to the devil. i have a friend who's a wiccan and she doesn't even believe in the devil. i think that wicca and things like that are getting in touch with nature and your mind's true abilities. those who oppose homosexuality and other such things with out even getting to KNOW one, are close minded bigots. i believe that everyone has a slight attraction to the same/opposite sex, it's what makes you apprieciate the person's beauty. no one should tell you who you can or cannot love.

[ZenEthics]

why does this website have such a hard on for the naturalistic fallacy(arguing that either something is natural or is not)

wether something is natural or not has little bearing on what we as human beings should enforce other human being to behave by.

homosexuality is an act entered in by two consenting adults and harms no one else, its attempted suppression from society would be quite moronic. :m:

[Bowser]

<i><b>I brought up the topic of homosexuality as a disease in a chat room the other day, and i was almost kicked out of the room...it was like more taboo that abortion. I found this quite interesting. I think that is the reason there has not been a cure for homosexuality. Can you imagine what the media would do to a story like that? The public would go nuts if they found out that a cure for homosexuality was being worked on. Is it really that bad? Damn MTV and gay rights activists are so hellbent and proctecting the rights of gays and brainwashing them to think that it is completely natural and that it is OK. It is not OK. Homosexuality is the complete opposite of the natural human reproductive process. Humans are not supposed to be attracted to the same sex. Our bodies were designed perfectly for one male and one female. Homosexuality is a chemical imbalance in the brain (just like bi-polarity, depression, etc) and a cure should be researched. Of course it wont actually be worked on for a while, if ever, because of these brainless activists.

Your thoughts?</i></b>

Dare I touch this...? Well... Okay...

My experience with homosexuals, both those I know as friends and those I know as professionals, is that they are very social creatures. Quite honestly, I find myself feeling rather protective of a few these days.

I suspect that, from past experience here and elsewhere, the radical response comes more from homophiles than from actual homosexuals. What you find is that homophilia is the cause at hand, not homosexuality. Don't blame the homosexuals, it is there champions who wear blinders.

I wonder, with your thoughts regarding a cure, if a homosexual would trade his or her inclination for a normal existence.

[Asguard]

zen people here belive that if they dissagree with someones view point they should despute it on the points made by that person. As all the morons seem to think that its NOT natural and therefor wrong that leaves everyone else stuck saying its natural and defending WHY its natural. The fact that it shouldnt be any of there business to start with doesnt penitrate there tiny brains

[Bowser]

As though gay pride day doesn't draw attention... Sheesh, it parades down Main Street once every year.

[Asguard]

bowser, would you trade a pair of cute tits or better yet a pair of cute redheads tied up on there knees waiting to please only you???

would you chose to give that up for a "normal existance"????

what is normal and how do we define it?
would you give that up to be asexual with sperm removed by injection to further the human race or just have you skin cells scraped to have a child. No pleasure, no sex just white coats. Would you give up sex for that if i thought it was "normal"???

[Bowser]

If I was born blind and was given the opportunity to see for the first time, I would take the cure.

If I was born without legs and was offered the opportunity to walk, I would take it.

Again, given the opportunity, would a homosexual accept a cure if made available?

[Asguard]

and i asked you a specific question. Not if you were blind and were going to be able to see. I asked you would you give up YOUR PLEASURE for someone elses normal

[Bowser]

Pleasure... Wait... Is that the definition of homosexuality? So far you have focused on crude sexual images. It's my understanding that this issue is more complex than simple pleasure. Are you certain this is where you want to go?

As for your question, if I knew that it was a disability, yes.

[Bowser]

As for the redheads, one would be plenty.

[Bowser]

Again, given the opportunity, would a homosexual accept a cure if made available?

[James R]

Homosexuality would need to be a disease in order to require a "cure". Since homosexuality appears to be a normal human variation, it doesn't require a cure.

[Bowser]

However, if a homosexual could be given an opportunity to change, would he or she?

[James R]

I would guess that most of the gay people I know would not want to change, Bowser.

Have you ever considered "turning gay"? If not, why not?

[Bowser]

If an obese homosexual was given the opportunity to lose weight, would he or she?
If a drug addicted homosexual was given the opportunity to come clean, would he or she?
If any person with a disability, given an opportunity to live a normal life, would he or she take it?

[Bowser]

<i>"Have you ever considered "turning gay"? If not, why not?"</i>

Is there a cure for heterosexuals? Is there an issue concerning heterosexuality? Is there any doubt that heterosexuality might be an illness? As a heterosexual, is there any questions regarding my purpose in life?

I am sorry. I am being an ass. But I wonder if all homosexuals are truly comfortable with their homosexuality. And I have this nagging question which concerns those who so desperately desire...a normal life: children, family, marriage.

Would you trade your homosexuality for a cure?

[James R]

If an obese homosexual was given the opportunity to lose weight, would he or she?

Obesity can be shown to have negative consequences for a person's health. Homosexuality cannot.

If a drug addicted homosexual was given the opportunity to come clean, would he or she?

Drug addiction can be shown to have negative consequences for a person's health. Homosexuality cannot.

If any person with a disability, given an opportunity to live a normal life, would he or she take it?

Homosexuals already lead "normal lives".

Is there a cure for heterosexuals?

I told you before: it isn't a disease.

Is there an issue concerning heterosexuality?

You seem to be making an issue of it.

Is there any doubt that heterosexuality might be an illness?

Yes, but obviously not in your mind.

As a heterosexual, is there any questions regarding my purpose in life?

That's something only you can answer.

But I wonder if all homosexuals are truly comfortable with their homosexuality.

How many homosexual people do you know, personally? Maybe you ought to try meeting a few more.

And I have this nagging question which concerns those who so desperately desire...a normal life: children, family, marriage.

Is that what you require for a "normal life", then? I suggest this says more about you than about other people. Many people choose not to have children, or marry. Most have a family, though. Everybody has parents.

Would you trade your homosexuality for a cure?

I assume this is a rhetorical question.

[Tiassa]

So where, aside from the couple of links the homophobes refuse to discuss, is anything resembling science in this topic?

Especially some science in support of the topic assertion?

[Asguard]

tiassa, theres not. There cant be because its a false pretence to start with. If you take away the homo vs hedro bit and transfer it to race, religion, nationality or just HAIR COLOUR then the whole topic is laughable. for some reason people dont see how much of a joke there arguments are. Pitty this "joke" just serves to hurt and damage the quality of someones life

[Tiassa]

Then we ought to consider having it moved to Free Thoughts or something. It doesn't seem to belong in "Human Science".

I mean, if there was some science involved ....

[Asguard]

how about we just throw it in the cesspool. After all thats where the "unintilligent" threads belong

[Tiassa]

I would hate to affront the people who have put more sincere efforts into the counterpoint than I did. Other than that, sure.

[Asguard]

my friend i am sure that those people would be gratifide to learn that this thread was dumped. I am sure sick of arguing this idiocy and im sure mystec and you are too, not to mention hyper and the rest of them. this very thread is an insult to them so why should they be offened. Just look at the first page of the thread. Its all a case of "here we go again"

[Buddha1]

The Christian west has fooled the world for long. The problem is science is also heavily influenced by Christian ways of thinking. That is why it insists on reproduction being the only purpose of sex and all human emotions and behaviour, especially sexual behaviour are geared towards reproduction.

Let me put some simple human truths forward:

1. There is no such thing as 'sexual orientation'. It is a fragment of west's imagination. The thing was devised to isolate sex between men, because it is a sin against the Christian God.

2. As far as straight men are concerned, sex has two important purposes:
(a.) for procreation man needs woman. However, as far as nature is concerned, male sexual desire for female is periodical (probably like in animals, happening only during the mating season, momentary (lasting from a few minutes to a couple of days) and only limited to phycal sex.
(b.) However, sex is also for a deeper meaningful bonding for which man's natural desires are towards another male.

While, the man is supposed to be promiscous in his relationship with women, if he is allowed to form relationships with men he would commit himself lifelong to one partner.

Sex with women is natural but long term relationships are not. In the past even in the marriages straight men and women were not intimate and did not relate beyond sex. A real man (if the pressures of society are not there) would think about women only in his mid thirties. Before that he would be perfectly happy with a male partner.
If heterosexuality was so natural, man woman relationship would not have been beset with so many problems. Nothing seems to be made for each other in a heterosexual relationship. Even the sex is not designed to provide perfect satisfaction to each other. E.g. the orgasmic patterns of male and female are differently patterned.
Men and women are so different from each other that it is difficult for a man to share his life with a woman -- even though he is forced and trained to do it. However, real men always keep running away from commitments to women and are scared of getting married or having to live with a woman.
Only a third gender male can really live comfortably with a woman.

3. The world is not divided between heterosexuals and homosexuals. The world is divided between two genders (I'm talking about men): The masculine male (straight, not heterosexual) and the Feminine male (Third Gender).
Although, today in a christian/ western society, masculine (straight) men have joined the 'gay' community in large numbers because of the way the society is 'unnaturally' divided, 'homosexuality' is actually a space/ identity for the third gender male who have sex with other third gender males or with straight men. Straight men are a misfit in the 'gay' world.

4. Heterosexuality is an oppressive, anti-man system devised by the west to oppress men and force them into longer relationships with women, and because men's need for other men comes in the way, the stress is on stamping out all instances of sex between males from the mainstream society. There are only about 5 - 10% of males who can really be called 'heterosexuals'.

5. It is a man's relationship with women which takes him towards femininity --- although there is nothing bad about it. When a straight man relates intimately with another straight guy, the relationship and even the desire takes both of them towards masculinty. Please note that most members of the third gender are actually heterosexuals (although most live out their gender secretly).

6. The society manipulates the notions of what it means to be a man in order to force straight men in a perpetual opposition to each other and to seek relationships with women.

[Buddha1]

Heterosexuality is an ideology and an unnatural process, which seeks to exaggerate and extend male female sex beyond reproduction to a point which is difficult to sustain in the natural way. Since, the burden is totally given to the man, since masculinity is associated with how well he can satisfy the female, it is the man who really suffers, while the woman can still take it easy.

The society which might initially have opposed intimacy between men because it wanted to promote reproduction and man's participaton in rearing of the children, have today become so compulsive in its efforts to stamp out male-male intimacy (of course now religion is an important driving force) that it is promoting sex with women as a pleasure thing for men. The west has long promoted women as sex objects for (real) men and while they are discouraged from treating other men as objects of sexual desire by threatening them with isolation as 'gay'.
The heterosexual society has taken this whole thing so far that now male-female relationships are for most of the time not about procreation at all. They date each other without meaning to 'reproduce'. Now most of the efforts of the heterosexual society is to ensure that procreation does not come into the way of male-female sex. And so you need condoms. Which are unnatural. Or you need abortions. Which are not only unnatural, they are also inhuman.
Heterosexuality itself is unatural and inhuman.
If heterosexuality was natural, you would not need condoms and abortions.

[Buddha1]

A typical heterosexual man (not the straight men who pass off as heterosexuals), would be a cross between a man and a woman. While he is a male from the outside, his inner affiliations would be towards the female sex. He would relate mainly to the female sex. He would devote himself to the female sex.
In fact a typical heterosexual man will happily think of his body being an instrumen to serve womankind, especially sexually. And would think his duty to satisfy them.
With power on his side in the modern world, he has successfully managed to force the straight man to do the same.

[Existing Bloke]

Christians should be bashed and not gays.

The more evil of gays and Christians are the Christians!

They even said homo erectus was weird, but they had no control over it.

I like broadway tunes as much as gays.

Don't fight Mother Nature, you Christian perverts!


You seem to be forgetting that Christianity isn't the only faith of whom some members have taken a strict and pious attitude to sexual acts.
You seem to be staging a bigoted attack on Christianity just because you think everyone has been so brainwashed by political correctness that they'll take you seriously.

[Buddha1]

You seem to be forgetting that Christianity isn't the only faith of whom some members have taken a strict and pious attitude to sexual acts.

Christianity invented religion. Before that we had spiritual paths and gods and goddesses. Those who founded Christianity tried to used the faith people show in God to control them and rule over them.
Even today, there are no parrallels to the Judeo/ Christian/ Islamic traditons, all of whom are far removed from spirituality and concerned with running people's earthly and political lives.
Though several spiritual paths discourage lifestyles that make sex only a thing of the flesh, what Christianity did in condemning sexual acts between men (and the third gender) is unprecedented. In fact, Judaism was changed from the back date, and the worst it can get in the name of religion -- Islam took the tradition started by Christianity, just too far.

[Existing Bloke]

Christianity invented religion.

Actually, numerous Christians regard Christianity as something utterly distinct from religion.

Before that we had spiritual paths and gods and goddesses. Those who founded Christianity tried to used the faith people show in God to control them and rule over them.

If you're referring to the evident condemnation of it in the later New Testament (I see no evidence of such condemnation in the Gospels) then it may be a good idea to take into account of the era the text was written in.


Even today, there are no parrallels to the Judeo/ Christian/ Islamic traditons, all of whom are far removed from spirituality and concerned with running people's earthly and political lives.

Not so. Their have been certain institutions in these respective faiths that have tried to do such things, but that does not mean their actions reflect the values of the faiths themselves.

[Buddha1]

Existing Bloke,
You seem to be different than the Chrisitians I have met so far. And I say that in a good way. I appreciate that you are trying to find the better things in your religion and not trying to defend what is obviously wrong.
However, I still don't agree with you. Christianity has advanced a lot, and become a lot more humane, in fact it may be the fastest changing oppressive religion in the world and that's a positive thing.
But the fact is the power is still with the orthodox. And Christianity does not have an honourable past.
I myself worship lord Jesus. But it is not the same Jesus that is snatched and distorted by the founders of Christianity. Of course, there were several sects following Jesus Christ before Chrisitanity was founded, 300 years after the death of Jesus. Can you deny the bloody massacres that wiped out all the original spiritual practices from the face of the world by the Christians, who carried on this violence till the beginning of the modern period. Today, the violence has taken the form of other unethical means to convert people. Converting indigenous people and faiths has the horrendous result of loosing the last remnants of ancient knowledge and secrets with the 'inhuman' teachings of the new bible.
Islam is just an offspring of Chrisitianity. It is based on the same principles. Only it refuses to change.
Not so. Their have been certain institutions in these respective faiths that have tried to do such things, but that does not mean their actions reflect the values of the faiths themselves.

You are right and wrong. There are innumerable Christian sects that have tried to evolve into a more humane religion. Even one that has place for spirituality and animism (is this the right word?). But they are still tied with their Bible. How can you change that? There basic concepts are still the same. They believe that God has just one form. That there is only one way to reach him. And this is the root of all violence and conflicts. A theology that sees all other paths to god as 'wrong'. And then what about the Christian practice of converting people. It is an industry in itself. Converting is a political act not spiritual.

[Existing Bloke]

Today, the violence has taken the form of other unethical means to convert people. Converting indigenous people and faiths has the horrendous result of loosing the last remnants of ancient knowledge and secrets with the 'inhuman' teachings of the new bible.

I agree. I believe that when someone embraces a religion, it should be something they have decided to do themselves.

And Christianity does not have an honourable past.

It would pointless to try and deny that various people throught history have warped and distorted Christianity into an excuse to be really nasty. The Inquisition would be the most obvious example of this.
But in its proper form, it can and does inspire acts of extreme decency in the minds of individuals.
Mostly, I agree with what you're saying.

[Buddha1]

But in its proper form, it can and does inspire acts of extreme decency in the minds of individuals.

I have three points. Why can't someone follow one's indigenous so-called religion and still believe in Jesus. Why does religion have to be an identity which seperates one individual from another. why can't Jesus be worshipped along with several other gods and goddesses.

Why don't people come forward and admit that all religions including Christianity have been tampered with and truth needs to be separated from the manipulations.

There is a fault in the institution/ system of Christianity, that it allows itself to be manipulated and to be used for things which have nothing to do with spirituality, but are clear and unwarranted interference in people's lives. I mean look at Buddhism (despite my account name I'm not a Buddhist, though I worship him too!) it just lays down broad guidelines for leading a spiritual life which will also benefit the materialistic/ social life of people. Within those broad guidlines -- which are simple for everyone to understand, anyone can lead a good life within those broad guidelines but still following one's natural instinct, and choose his or her own way to god based on his particular nature.

[Xylene]

hey, don't joke about that. Left handed people are witches (or russian hockey players).

In Greece they used to believe that blue-eyed, blond people are witches. You can see why they would think that when you look at the hair and eye-colour of the average Greek. Blue eyes/blond hair/ standout like dogs' nuts.

[mis-t-highs]

I've never seen dog's nuts, are they like brasil's nuts, pea's nuts, wal's nuts, or .cashews
but I have seen blonde blue eyed boys/men.
I could understand why, they would be thought of as witches, bright sunlight makes our pupils dilate, which makes them look evil, it dont look so bad with brown eyes.
as in cartoons the baddie has always got little black dots for eyes.

[Godless]

I guess I'll be "Johnny come Lately" on this.

But long ago I read in a Man's health book which had an article on homosexuality. It claimed that it may be caused by a defeciency of testosterone hormone; thus "vaguedly remembered" the studie was done on men who had attraction to same sex, and straight men, they have found out there were a shortage of testosterone in homosexual men, however it did claim that not all homosexuals showed this deficiency, thus further explaining that some gays are gays by choice, not by an hormonal imbalance.

I'm certainly not gay nor am I homophobic, I've had many gay friends of both sexes and there is a mutual respect. Some of them when talking about experiences of attraction, childhood, heterosexual sex, bi sexual desires, three way, four way, orgies, and the like, stories got heated and very interesting with these friends, though the subject of biggotry was touched up lightly, they recent those that think of them as sic, amoral, or perverted. I would too. Sex as long as there is mutual consent between two adults is not everyone's business unless they are willing to share with you their experiences, and who the hell am I or you to judge? Judge not, what may be come of your own siblings, or close relative.

These essays are good ones on the "hormone or gene imbalance theory"
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro98/202s98-paper2/Bodian2.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/bornway.html

The psychology of homosexuality;http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet6.html

Psychology of homophobia; http://allanturner.com/homo.html

I only thank my lucky stars to have traveled so much, met so many people from all walks of life, I'm content of who I am, and of my sexual preference "heterosexual" however I have never discriminated of what others sexual preferences are, I've been helped by gays, I've been room mates with some friends that are gay, and I find that we are all basically the same; we fall in love, we have fights, disagreements, contentments, and sexual desires for our partners.

Godless.

[Buddha1]

To everyone but especially wise guys like Godless:

Heterosexuality is unnatural, abnormal and a disease

This is not rhetoric. Whether we look at our present day society, or the ancient world --- this is the resounding message that we get. Scientifically, biologically and morally.

Man, at least straight man was never ever meant to be heterosexual.

Defining Heterosexuality

Let's clearly define heterosexuality first. The western society conveniently plays with these words to suit their own anti-men's agenda. In common parlance it is often used to simply refer to sex or sexual desire between male and female. Heterosexuality, however, is not as simple as that, nor is sexual desire for women the ownership of heterosexuals. Heterosexuality in reality is an ideology, which embodies two things:
- exaggeration of sexual desire for women to a point that nature can't healthily sustain.
- Suppression of sexual desire for men, which is equally unhealthy.

Heterosexuality means exclusive and all encompassing sexual desire for women, and an inversion to male eroticism and bonding.

Defining Homosexuality

It is also important to define homosexuality clearly, since it is cunningly meant to cover two opposite ends of male spectrum --- the masculine and the feminine, which is practically not possible, but the western world has lived with this concoction for a long time.

Sex or sexual desire between males is also not the ownership of homosexuals. Homosexuality for all practical purposes refers to sexual attraction of a feminine/queer male (often referred to as gay) either for another feminine man or for a straight man (they are both different desires). Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality covers the sexual relationship or desire of a straight man for another straight man (or even for a feminine man).

Furthermore, neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality even remotely represents the sexual nature of straight men.

Sexual nature of straight men

Straight men, by nature, are driven to seek sex with women occasionally (about once each year like in the animals). They are meant to seek life-long committed relationship only with other men (mostly straight men). This is supported both by history and the animal life.

Most of the men including straight men who go around with the 'heterosexual' label are not really heterosexuals. They are just pretending.

The straight man's desire for another straight man is way different than a woman's desire for a straight man or a 'homosexual's' (feminine male) desire for a straight man. A straight man's desire for women is also very different from a feminine man's desire for women.

Animal sexuality

In none of the mammal species we know of is the male 'heterosexual'.

Which other mammal do you know where the male pairs off with a female for lifelong or even for a period greater than a week! Heterosexual mating takes place once a year, during the mating season and that too for a very short duration ranging from a few hours to a couple of days (depending on the species) after which the male goes back to his pack. Of course the discovery channel will not tell you what the males do the rest of the year, although recent discoveries have shown a lot of sexual committed bonding between males. So the guys that bang each other's heads for a fuck of the female go back to their male lovers after attending to their natural call --- fulfilling their duty, so to speak.

If mammals were indeed heterosexuals they would not live separately for such long periods when they can easily live together. They don't even have to live in male only or female only groups. They can also choose to live in heterosexual spaces like the modern, Christian West does (perhaps the sons of gods of the world couldn't reach them). Animals live according to their natural instincts, not on the basis of some lords or prophets commands.

The animal males choose a new female partner each year, whereas, in the few cases studied they tended to bond lifelong with other males (in one-to-one bonds), unless forced apart by death. Clearly the males do not have any sense of commitment or attachment with the females – a basic requirement of heterosexuality.

What's more in species like the elephants, the males only approach females when they are about 40 years old. That in a life span which is only about 60 years by which time the elephant is too old even to move around properly. Sex between males is only too well known amongst the elephants.

We must not forget that most cases of affection and sexual bonding between males in the wild are not reported by the scientists – a phenomenon which has only now started to be documented. Even if they wanted to, they are too biased and ill informed to really find it out.

The strongest bias is this stupid 'scientific' theory that they have that every single move and thought of the animal is (consciously or unconsciously) directed towards facilitating reproduction, especially if it's even remotely concerned with sexual bonding. So if there is sex between males, it has to fit into this 'overall' purpose. Of course they will only look for cases of sex, love between males neither exists in the animal world nor is it important.

Another bias is that scientists tend to consider only cases of anal intercourse in animals as 'homosexuality'. That's absolutely illogical (in fact trying to find 'homosexuality amongst animals is itself wrong and biased because it's a peculiarly human /western/Christian concept). Even amongst the humans straight men do not prefer intercourse when they have sex with another straight man. When men have sex with women or with 'homosexuals' they may only have intercourse because it's socially so constructed.


Human history

Almost all ancient tribal societies, only a couple of which now remain, had institutionalized sexual bonding between men and often gave it precedence over sex with women. In these societies, like in the animal world, sex between males and females happened periodically every year and was restricted to just sex – but only so much that procreation can occur. In fact in all the ancient traditions (there are still several that survive today in non-western societies) womanizing is considered a feminizing factor for men.

We don't need to recount what happened in Greece. Suffice it to say that whenever the society accorded male-male bonds its true place, they have marginalized male-female bonds, and societies have been forced to find means to compel men to copulate with women. It seems to be a perenial problem.

In medieval societies by which time, male-female marriages were already made compulsory (we are still far away from heterosexuality) and sex between men either flourished (in some societies) side by side under social acceptance if not institutionalization or (in other societies) it was accepted behind the scenes, not openly. But in either case, interaction between man and woman was restricted to just the act of sexual intercourse (which, I might add, in most societies did not involve taking off clothes, nor doing it with lights on) often once in every couple of months). Or to matters concering family (children, ration, etc.). In these societies the issue was 'procreation' and not satisfying women.

Also in both kinds of societies sex (not love) between a feminine male (homosexual) and a straight man was openly allowed.

This has been the case in most of the non-western world till recent times, before the advent of globalisation and cultural invasion by America which has begun a process of heterosexualisation of these societies.

Marriage is unnatural

A true man can never share his life with a woman (or even with a feminine male) without sacrificing his happiness. Even a relationship with them is heavy on him. This is something that only a person with enough femininity can afford. In fact the more masculine a man gets the lesser his attraction for women gets too.

The love and bonding that a straight man can give to another straight man, neither a woman nor a homosexual male can give to him. A feminine male (homosexual or heterosexual) is equally unlikely to understand a straight man than are women, and is not likely to be compatible with him. They both have the least understanding or appreciation of masculinity. All that they have is a sexual attraction which is transient. Women and Feminine males may like macho men for short term flings, but they soon get bored of it and then they want to change them.

Straight men too can at best have short flings with women and feminine males.

Interestingly, the same thing happens at the other end of the spectrum --- the more feminine a man gets the lesser his interest in women gets too.

You become that, which you love

Of course there are some men who are genuinely heterosexual in this world, i.e., genuinely want to share their life with a woman. But these are not the typical males. These true heterosexuals are harmless and enlightened creatures and are most likely the two-spirited people that the ancients once venerated. I.e. they have both the male and female spirits (masculinity and femininity) in them almost in equal proportion. This way you can say that they have 'hormonal balance'. They fall somewhere between the masculine males (straights) and feminine males (including non-homosexuals). These two-spirited people may not be too different from today's meterosexuals.

Women who really want to share life with a man really crave for this meterosexual man, not one of those macho or straight guys.

The height of heterosexuality is the ultimate two-spirited person – who is also considered to be the epitome of spirituality --- what the heterosexual society has ironically denigrated as 'transsexual' and 'hermaphrodite'. He is a person who is two-spirited from within as well as from the outside – he has male genitals but he feels he is a female – his love for women has turned him into a male-woman. Or he has the genitalia of both male and female as in the case of the hermaphrodite.

Incidentally, the height of femininity in males is also Transexuality (although it's not two spirited, only feminine spirited but signifying a unique form of positive energy nevertheless). The height of the masculine spirited (straight) man is macho -- a stage which traditionally insists on total abstinence from women. However, the term macho has been much maligned and distorted by the heterosexual society. The heterosexual version of 'macho' is selfish, cruel, mean, unfair and of course 'heterosexual'. The naturally macho man on the other hand was strong from inside, fair, respectful of others, caring, righteous and a true warrior. He was someone who is a true stickler for fair rules. And it does not need to be said that he took love with a man to its highest form, with total and exclusive devotion – like the ancient Greeks. The world has not seen such love eversince.

I'm reminded of an ancient myth, where god Zeus in anger divided his subjects– the male, female as well as the hermaphrodite gods -- into halves. He later relented and sent them to earth as humans, each one's goal in life being to reunite and bond with his/ her other half, in order to become complete again.

Thus the males started craving for a man (his other half), the female craved for another female and the hermaphrodite person who was divided into a man and a woman has since been looking for and courting 'heterosexual' bonds. We are all supposed to represent one of these.

God does not want man and woman to bond

If god wanted man and woman to live together he wouldn't put one on Venus and the other on mars. There is absolutely no understanding between them.

There is hardly any sexual compatibility between men and women. Ever since heterosexuality came into being so have innumerable big and small sexual dysfunctions --- problems that have arisen because of forcing men into heterosexuality --- into a sexual bond with women that nature cannot support. There'll hardly be a 'heterosexual' man today who does not face sexual problems even though he may be shy of seeking treatment.

Man and woman cannot satisfy each other in bed fully. They both have absolutely different sexual clocks and different patterns of orgasms and absolutely no natural understanding of how the other's body works.

Straight men are wary of being intimate with women beyond ejaculation. They do not like to cuddle women in bed. Of course women often complain that men turn the other way as soon as they shed their semen. The orgasm of the female or her sensuality or her femininity in itself does not interest men. It would if it was not forced on them beyond the natural limit.

And of course there is the adage that 'men want sex from women' while 'women want love'. Real men just can't dream of emotional intimacy with women --- it's a fact, and I'm sure, most women will not feel sorry because of it. They too (apart from a small minority – the equivalent of male two spirit heterosexuals), secretly, be better off living with their own with occasional sexual escapades with the opposite sex.

Surely, if nature had intended heterosexuality it would not be so dumb as to make it so painstakingly difficult.

Forcing Heterosexuality

If heterosexuality was indeed so natural, such extreme social maneuvering would not have been needed to keep it in place. I mean look at the way the entire society, each and every element of it is meant to promote 'heterosexuality' howsoever uncomfortable or unnatural these elements may seem. So much so that today even small children are taught about dating and made to understand in no uncertain terms that if they want to grow up 'straight' (which they better do!) they must be heterosexual. And to think that these messages go through the most innocent of channels – cartoons.

And if 'heterosexuality' was indeed natural it did not need to fear 'homosexuality' so much. There would have been no need for such an immense force to control it as is being used today. Of course in the first place there would have been no need to bring in god to restrain it. If male-male sexuality is talked about it is only of the homosexual variety (stereotyped as feminine guys looking for a fuck) so as to keep straight men restrained. And children must be absolutely kept out of it, because the only hope to keep the society heterosexual is to fill their minds with filth about sexual relationships between any kind of males. Because if they fail to do it in that tender age, they have no hope whatsoever.

Heterosexuality is an anti-male ideology

Heterosexuality makes men subservient to women. A heterosexual society judges a man's manhood by his ability to 'satisfy' women. This gives women an immense power and handle over men. While all women are aware of this power that they have over men (and not all are interested in using them) some sexually aggressive women (polite term for whores) use this power to sexually abuse and exploit men. Because, man will have to submit to a woman's demand for sex lest he be disqualified from being a man. Thus 'heterosexuality' has made men vulnerable to unimaginable sexual abuse. Heterosexuality has created a society where the 'woman' has been granted the power to grant manhood to a man, and it no longer flows from within a man and from being with men.

However, this is good news for the weak two-spirited 'heterosexual' (not all heterosexuals need this cheap power). These men not only gladly submit themselves before women, they want to make the entire male species subservient to them. These men can hardly feel for the male race or masculinity because all they can think about is women and femininity and how to serve them.

Subsequently, a heterosexual society is over sensitive to the issues of women, but is impervious, often hostile to the needs of men.

These weak heterosexuals are the real eunuchs (non-men). They are the betrayer of the male population. They speak for women. They should not call themselves 'men'. They sell out the male race to the women and happily become their slaves.

Conclusion:

Thus it can be forcefully said that heterosexuality in the form that is enforced in westernized societies – as masculine and majoritarian, is unnatural, abnormal and gives rise to a number of physical, emotional, mental, social and spiritual problems both in men, women and the two-spirited people.

At the same time, the whole concept of homosexuality is also unnatural and abnormal in its present form. In fact the very validity of the concept of sexual orientation is questionable, but that is quite another matter.

No where in the mammalian world does the male partake in the raising of children. The birds do, and probably that is +why they're heterosexual. But not humans. Children are nice to raise, and men awe women for the power of procreation that they have, but heterosexuality is too heavy a price to pay for it. After all, women cannot make children without men.

[Buddha1]

coming up......Heterosexuality is a disease!

[Godless]

To everyone but especially wise guys like Godless

See one can always observe an idiot!. They are easily distinquished from those that merely do not feel threatened by someone else's experience.

You seem threatened that I could have lived and have friends that are gay, and yet accept them for who they are, even though I don't participate in their sexual preference. This frightens the hell out of you, to the point were you've got to come up with some bull shiet post, explaining that to desire women as straight men is a desease. :confused:

What an idiot!.

Godless.

[Buddha1]

See one can always observe an idiot!.

I'll ignore that because, I'd rather discuss threadbare the points I've raised. And I'm open for criticisms on that front. And if I find solid reasoning, I'm willing to change. Because I am seeking the truth.

You seem threatened that I could have lived and have friends that are gay

My disapproval of you is based on your insincere support of your gay/ lesbian friends. It's kind of cheap for someone who claims to be friends with gay and lesbian people to suggest that they are abnormal or deficient with hormonal imbalance. Anyone who is genuinely friends with gay and lesbian people can see that they are just as normal and natural as any of us, and their transgenderism is also a positive part of their natural aura. There cannot be anything biologically wrong with something as positive as that.

A friend of gays and lesbians should be scoffing at such theories not supporting them --- because he is the one who knows them closely.

Heterosexuals, in any case, are supposed to be closer to gays than are straight men, unless you are 'straight' as well as 'heterosexual' which is an exceptional case.

This frightens the hell out of you, to the point were you've got to come up with some bull shiet post,

If you think my profound post was written just as a rejoinder to your post, you are overestimating yourself. My post is a result of 10 years of working with and studying all kinds of men (albeit from the standpoint of a straight man) in a non-western society. I'm aware that I still have to learn a lot and a long way to go before I can find the whole truth. But I already feel capable to challenge the western concepts of gender and sexuality, especially because through globalisation they are affecting our traditional wisdom.

[bbcboy]

Is homosexuality a disease. Don't think so!
Thing is, if it was I'd sooner have that than fuckin TB.
The only disease that exist regarding gay people is in need of a hyphen.
Dis - ease
People are made uncomfortable by a social group who through an aching adolescence (In most cases) follow their internal needs and fight, yes fight their own misgivings to finally come to terms with the genetic/cultural/psychological pressure that exist within them.
I had a terrible time in my youth in admitting the truth to myself. and the reason for this was not because I was dirty or ashamed or guilty. I was because society said I should be.
I said fuck you and am very happy to have done so.
I love myself and my life.
I also find it very worrying that subject such as this finds itself in 'the cesspool'
Was does that say about the attitudes of poster on this site?

[Godless]

My disapproval of you is based on your insincere support of your gay/ lesbian friends. It's kind of cheap for someone who claims to be friends with gay and lesbian people to suggest that they are abnormal or deficient with hormonal imbalance.

Well maybe if you took your head out of your ass, you could read what I said!. I din't claim for them to be abnormal, I only informed you I (READ IT) in a man's health book, I didn't claim to believe it!. I only LET YOU KNOW OF IT!!.



But I already feel capable to challenge the western concepts of gender and sexuality, especially because through globalisation they are affecting our traditional wisdom.

What ever dood!.

The only way for you to experience anything is to try it. I know from experience that I'm not gay, or homosexual, I'm not atracted to the opposite sex. Period!!. However I'm comfortable enough and sure enough of myself to have plenty of relationships with anyone I so desire, by having a relationship it does not mean that it has to be connected to atraction in a sexual manner. Most of my friends happen to be women, however at the moment I'm single, and plainly "not interested".

Good luck with proving that heterosexuality is a desease. Just do me a good favor if you ever want to try out your theory. Go to a red-neck bar in Texas and tell them that heterosexual men are sic. for having atraction to women, ant that they are truly more tendecies to being gay!. if you get out with your life! let us know how you did. K. :D

Godless.

[Godless]

I also find it very worrying that subject such as this finds itself in 'the cesspool'

Ah!! good question BBC.

The cesspool is for the unintellegent discussions. This shows that the thread started is unintellegent. Thus it plainly states that our moderators deem such a discussion is kind of idiotic, non-acceptable BS.

Godless.

[Buddha1]

I only informed you I (READ IT) in a man's health book, I didn't claim to believe it!. I only LET YOU KNOW OF IT!!.

You believe what you read more than what you observe! Don't give me that crap. There are thousands of things on the net! You live in a society where heterosexuality is power. And which is bent upon proving the others as 'deviants' when the truth is the opposite. There are still lots of researches around. You conveniently choose the stuff you want to believe in.

You may feel proud in your heterosexuality, but if you relate it to anything but with a feminine aspect of you, you're fooling yourself.

Go to a red-neck bar in Texas and tell them that heterosexual men are sic. for having atraction to women, ant that they are truly more tendecies to being gay!. if you get out with your life! let us know how you did. K.

That's mob culture. I have worked with men long enough to know that. Don't we all do it when in groups. And in a society (western society) which awards such enormous social power and 'masculine' status to heterosexuality, some straight men will stand in line to prove themselves to be heterosexual.
The same macho Texas men, will in privacy find it difficult to resist eroticism from another man if they get an opportunity.

Gender identity is much more important than sexual fulfillment. That holds especially true for straight men. That's the resounding message that I have received from years of my work. A society which denies them the right to be straight or denies them power (which some macho men so desperately need) if they as much as show their desire for another man, men will grow up hating sexual desire for men in themselves and in others. And make the sexual desire for women however little the focus of their life.
A Christian background and years of brainwashing does not do any good either.

In fact in a society that puts an unbelievablly negative value on sexual intimacy between men and throws them into the pits of indignity and throws them in a social space with the third gender, straight men will grow up with an intense hatred of sex between men. But their own instincts for other men do not go away. They just lurk within them and take monstrous proportions. It becomes a disease.

They come out in really weird and horrendous ways. Look at the kind of sexual 'hazing' which goes on in the western colleges. These macho Texas men who will kill someone who suggests that Heterosexuality is a disease, will strip men, humiliate them in front of girls, sexually molest them. They just need power over vulnerable men and an occasion which will not give them a 'homosexual' label for indulging in such brazenly sexual acts.

Or in prisons when they have other vulnerable men under their control and an excuse of not having women around.

Or with war prisoners like what happened in Iraq. The first thing they want to do is to strip the young men they capture. To make them masturbate. To take their pictures in the nude.

So that proves nothing. In fact in a heterosexual society what men say and do is often diagonally opposite to how they feel deep within them. That's the perils of living in an unnatural society.

The Texan men, which have maligned the whole notion of 'machoness', were the same as the macho Germanic or the Celtic warriors of the ancient days who though were married would love only another of their kind. Or those unsurpassable Samurais of Japan who glorified machoness -- who would gladly lay down their life fighting for their honour.

Unless, of course these Texan men are meterosexuals, who just feel powerful because the western society deprives straight men of power and invests them into these meterosexuals (heterosexuals).

In fact from my experiences I can say that the men who come forward and say things like "I'm heterosexual", "I'm into men" especially when noone asks them, are more likely than not to have a strong sexual desire for men which they are well aware of. Like that Colin Farrell guy who had to state in the newspaper that "Kissing another guy in "Alexander" made him so uncomfortable that it proved to him that he is heterosexual". He almost gave himself out.

I know this would enrage you no end because you have been raised to hate sexual instincts for men and are taught to relate that with 'fags', with inadequacy and with all sorts of 'imbalances'.

[Buddha1]

heterosexual men are sic. for having atraction to women,

Now wait a minute. I almost missed that.
You westerners are so fond of seeing everything in black and white. I never once said that sexual desire for women is sick. Saying heterosexuality is sick is not the same as saying that sexual desire for women is sick. I don't think you have really read the article. You are so busy feeling offended that you don't really care what the article is all about.

There is hardly any man who does not feel sexual attraction for women. I believe even those who you people call 'homosexuals' are just not in touch with sexual attraction for women. Just like I know (from my work experience) that there is hardly any man on earth who does not feel sexual atttraction for another man. Even if it is latent or suppressed and converted into a disease by the society. But everything has a proper place. For straight men, sexual desire for women rules out a longer or deeper attachment for females because of their masculinity.

What I'm saying is that the primary sexual desire of straight men for other straight men is related to their masculinity, and for women to their femininity. In third gender males, the relation is opposite. And then there are others who are between third gender and straight males whose primary sexual attraction may be towards females.

Everything I'm saying is in earnest, and based on my experience, and my quest for truth and my knowledge is, I repeat far from complete. After ten years of work, I have only started to see some connections.

Again, I believe that heterosexuality (not sexual desire for women) is sick. And so is homosexuality (the entire way sexual desire for men is socially constructed in the west) is sick too. In fact the entire concept of 'sexual orientation' is sick. It is unprecedented in the world (and I hope is not followed ever again!). I agree, that I focussed my article on heterosexuality, only because it is the biggest sickness (and the root of all sicknesses) and the one in power. But floating only on bloated air. So I decided to pinch it first. Where it hurts the most.

[Buddha1]

I also find it very worrying that subject such as this finds itself in 'the cesspool'

I don't know. It seems the intentions of the moderators are good.

See, the problem is the heterosexual society. As long as the society will remain heterosexual it will make life tough for men. Not only in the sexual arena but in all other aspects of life.

If you don't raise such issues, how will they ever get resolved. The moderators may have chosen such a title only to instigate a discussion, though I may be totally wrong. I have not gone through the thread.

[Buddha1]

'Heterosexuality' the disease

Heterosexuality is a disease which has serious repercussions – for men the most, but also for women and the third gender (including the heterosexuals). Heterosexuality gives rise to a number of physical, emotional, mental, social, sexual and spiritual problems in people, especially straight men.

The progression of the disease

Heterosexuality is the most advanced form of a disease the roots of which go back long long ago in the history. At that time it was so harmful.

The reason earlier societies first started institutionalsing male-female sex as 'marriage' was to ensure the continuance or the political dominance of their communities through a steady increase in population. The world then was a big place and could sustain many more humans than were there at that time.

As communities migrated from one place to another (e.g. the Indo-Aryans) this need to increase in numbers fast would have resulted, for the first time, in attempts to control sex between men – to further limit male energy to reproduction.

Then came Christianity and Islam – the two later religions that openly sought religious hegemony and dominance of the world. They promptly secured an order from their respective gods in order to make sex between men a sin and a crime. These were the middle stages of the disease.

The western society developed this disease to its present form "Heterosexuality', to suit the modern, 'scientific' times.

The epidemiology of Heterosexuality

Heterosexuality, in its full blown form was till recently only present in the western world, with the U.S. experiencing its most advanced stage.

The disease was however present in its crude forms in most of the civilized world for about the past 2500 years (in some cases even earlier).

With globalisation, the US through its wealth and technological power has been bombarding the rest of the world with the full blown 'heterosexual' virus.

Some of the symptoms of Heterosexuality

The symptoms of the advanced stage of the disease include the 'killing' of all male only spaces/ customs in the society which are replaced with mixed-sex spaces/ customs.

Another symptom is the incessant 'promotion', enforcement and glorification of male-female sex. Which is accompanied by silencing the voices of male-male love or its denigration.

A special symptom of a man coming from a society inflicted with heterosexuality is a strange set of reactions which include turning pink with embarrassment and cringing, at even the thought of holding another man\s hand or being too near him, especially if in public.

Some of the effects of heterosexuality

Heterosexuality makes human life miserable. It also adversely affects other species and the mother earth. Overpopulation is one of the severest effects of the disease. The world is already ready to burst with humans spreading like insects.

Of course nature gave just enough attraction towards female to the masculine male that can support the nature's pace of reproduction. Had heterosexuality been natural there would not be any use for condoms or for vasectomy or for those hazardous pills with severe side effects --- all unnatural things. Surely these are the by-products of an unnatural heterosexual society. Like innumerable others.
It's ironical. Heterosexuality was created in order to force the human population to grow much faster than their natural pace.

Today, when population itself has become a fatal problem, threatening to kill not only the human population, but the earth itself, efforts are being made to rid heterosexuality of 'procreation'. Considering the individual and social costs of maintaining an unnatural 'heterosexual' order, one wonders of its use, when it has become inimical to the basic purpose of its creation. Heterosexuality indeed has become an end in itself.

When straight men are forced to be heterosexuals, they are forced to relinquish their masculinity and since femininity is not an option (because it is so devalued and because it does not come naturally to straight men) they become hollow and diseased from within, dependant on pretentious masculinity – the heterosexual brand of fake masculinity described in the earlier article.

Violence against women is also a negative fall out of forcing (explicitly or implicitly) men into heterosexual relationships.

And of course there are those innumerable sexual diseases that inflict men reeling under heterosexuality ----- from pre-mature ejaculation to erectile dysfunctions. Satisfying women is a goal that keeps eluding men. Perhaps they should learn from those meterosexuals, sorry heterosexuals.

[Godless]

Complete non-sequirtus!.

[Godless]

Gender identity is much more important than sexual fulfillment. That holds especially true for straight men. That's the resounding message that I have received from years of my work. A society which denies them the right to be straight or denies them power (which some macho men so desperately need) if they as much as show their desire for another man, men will grow up hating sexual desire for men in themselves and in others. And make the sexual desire for women however little the focus of their life.

Non-sequirtus; This does not explain pedophilia, necrophilia, hermaphedites, nor transexualism.

In a free society, such as we basically are living here in the states people feel free enough to experiment with oposite sex,or same sex and not feel guilt of experimenting, from child hood many humans experiment with sexuality the atraction to opposite sex or same sex identity is part of the developing child, understanding the presures of society, many do hide their sexual preference, however those that claim to be heterosexual, have had to go through the same process as those that prefer to be homosexual during their development.

Furtehrmore the defenition of "desease" has something to do with biological organisms such as virus, cancers, etc.. What you are claiming is moot, the decision to be homosexual, or heterosexual, is a psychological one, not a biological one. Thus rendering your thesis to complete NON-SEQUIRTUS! MOOT!.

http://infovoice.se/fou/epv/faq/disease.htm
http://www.perlegen.com/whatweoffer/discovering_genetic_causes.html

I do understand however that here we may have a controversy if I were to completely believe that last scenerio of our argument the hormone factor, of which I render unfounded, becuase many gays make the decision to be homosexual regardless of testostorone levels.

Godless.

[Buddha1]

Godless, I'd respond to the points you have raised tomorrow. Till that time, here is something for you and others to contemplate on:

OM
The Western strategy to keep straight men from bonding with other men

The heterosexual society attempts to suppress male bonding needs for other men and forcibly diverts it towards women. It stops at nothing to weed out male-male intimacy from the society and to promote male-female relationships. The following enumerates the strategy that the heterosexual society has followed since it took over from the pro-male ancient cultures (like the Greeks):

o Medieval Strategy:

Religion: Christianity made the act of 'sodomy' a sin and propagated is as being 'against the order of nature', insisting that sex is only for procreation.

Violence: Bringing in god made it acceptable for people who 'deviated' from the word of the god, to be murdered, castrated and otherwise dealt with violently.

o Modern strategy:

Since religion cannot be used anymore to force people to desist from doing something, the modern society has used subtle but extremely complex and indirect methods to prevent straight men from bonding with other men. The main strategies are:

Discrediting it as 'third gender' feminine trait: After dehumanizing the 'third gender' the society tries everything it can to make sexual intimacy between males seem intrinsically third gender. It starts with putting 'straight men' together with the 'third gender' under the 'homosexual' category on the pretext of common 'sexual orientation'. Western media, films, entertainment, education institutions go all out to portray men who desire other men as 'effeminate'. (the thrust of my work on masculinity is to exactly understand this process!).

Especially vicious is the (ab)use of that 'sacred' unquestionable institution of the modern world called 'science'. There have been several scientific studies which have 'proved' or hinted that 'sexual desire for men is indeed feminine (e.g. that homosexuals have brains similar to those of women!)
In the same breadth, the west has been spreading the 'heterosexual = straight' myth, whereas, it's only the feminine man who can truly bond with a woman.

o Isolate male-male intimacy through 'sexual orienation': Without isolating people, the west could not effectively check sexual bonding between men.

o Enforce strict silence on the issue: The society knows that inspite of the elaborateness and complexity of its painstakingly built nefarious designs, they can come shattering down with a single blow of truth.

Therefore, it is extremely important for this 'heterosexual' order that an extreme stigma is maintained on talking in its favour. The institutions of the modern free world unabashedly follow this unspoken diktat.

If however, it has to be discussed/ brought out in the open, it must be so (i) to show it in a negative light, or (ii) as a separate category of people --- as a 'third gender' minority issue or (iii) within the homosexual ghettos.

This is a key strategy, because it ensures that the heterosexual society can go on propagating its myths unchallenged. The manipulative complex nature of the terminologies used makes sure that the issue of male-male intimacy is trapped in the confines of misleading terms like 'homosexuality' and 'gay'.

o Stamping out spaces from mainstream society: An important strategy is to stamp out all 'male-only' spaces from the society (societies that live close to the nature are always divided into male spaces and female spaces), because they invariably cause sexual intimacy between men to develop. All such spaces are replaced by mixed gender spaces which are almost always sensitive to the privacy and gender needs of women but are especially harsh and insensitive to men. In a society that dehumanizes sexual bonding between men and places extraordinary premium on male-female intimacy, mixed gender settings mean enormous pressures on men to be 'heterosexual'.

o Propagating 'heterosexuality' unabashedly: Everywhere you see, the heteroseuxal society is at pains to force heterosexual relationships and desire on men (they are especially concerned with stopping men from bonding with other men!) Some examples are given below:

- Even TV programmes meant for children and kids show them 'dating' or falling for the opposite sex. While they are shown as finding any kind of physical intimacy with their own sex distasteful.

- Distorting history: All instances of love and intimacy between straight men is either: (i) destroyed, failing which (ii) ignored, failing which (iii) femininsed and/ or (iv) fraternized and/or (v) trivialized.

- Using science as an oppressive tool: Science is a modern institution which easily gives way to manipulation by those in power. Since the beginning science has been used to validate and propagate heterosexuality and to condemn intimacy between men as a 'disease' or third gender deviation. Examples are:

· Earlier researches that proved 'homosexuality' (sic) to be a mental disorder.

· Recent researches that show the brain of 'homosexuals' are similar to those of 'women'.

· Another research talks of a 'gay' gene that implies that sexual desire for men is indeed rare and makes a person a deviant and a minority.

· One research amongst animals sought to uphold the 1 in 10 theory, again giving credence to the theory of 'sexual orientation'.

· Programmes on discovery and national geographic channels show animal sexual life as being 'heterosexual'. These channels portray human and animal sexuality as being basically geared towards reproduction. Suppression of sexual activities between males has now started to be documented though at a very small scale.

Science has not even bothered to investigate if indeed there is such a thing as homosexuality and heterosexuality. The sexual orientation is a western hoax, but I'll discuss that later.

[Godless]

Budha; you don't live in the states do you?.

Propagating 'heterosexuality' unabashedly: Everywhere you see, the
heteroseuxal society is at pains to force heterosexual relationships and
desire on men (they are especially concerned with stopping men from
bonding with other men!) Some examples are given below:

Much of what you say, makes sense only if you are not aware of current trend in America. Oviously you are not!!.
click (http://www.dailytrojan.com/news/2005/01/24/Lifestyle/Homosexuality.On.Tv.Is.The.New.Trend.For.A.New.Yea r-838800.shtml)
Click again! (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_medi.htm)
how about one more time CLICK (http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/23567/view)

Using science as an oppressive tool: Science is a modern institution
which easily gives way to manipulation by those in power. Since the
beginning science has been used to validate and propagate heterosexuality
and to condemn intimacy between men as a 'disease' or third gender deviation

ah! the art of PSEUDO SCIENCE! Many people do get fooled by it, many others however know it to be a craptorationality!.

Programmes on discovery and national geographic channels show animal
sexual life as being 'heterosexual'. These channels portray human and
animal sexuality as being basically geared towards reproduction.
Suppression of sexual activities between males has now started to be
documented though at a very small scale.

Perhaps you are right on this one! I'll give you that, however most of these shows are geered for children!. fact is that anyone with a brain in the west know of homosexuality behavior in animals. Oh! and please do take notice of organization of this next web site! (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html)

I like the way your mind works, and it seems you've got a long way to go, but keep learning. This site here will help you alot to understand homosexuality; click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality)

Oh! and perhaps this may be the reason I don't believe in heterosexuality being a desease; click (http://www.universalway.org/Foreign/disease.html)

More rhetorical bull shit from theistic dogma!. :bugeye:

Godless.

[Jolly Rodger]

I wouldn’t say it is a disease more of a disability.

[suzukisfrog]

a disabling, dilapidating, deluding, deluging, dumber than dumb-dumb DISEASE. p.s. i'd just like to thank jesus for saving me.

[Jolly Rodger]

yes you thank jesus, can you also ask him to return my microwace, he borrowed it and never returned it!

[Jolly Rodger]

coming up......Heterosexuality is a disease!
then call me contagious

[suzukisfrog]

jesus said: no soup for you.

frog 1:1

[Jolly Rodger]

who uses soap

[suzukisfrog]

soUp, not soAp. no speaka englaish?

[Jolly Rodger]

whats soup

[suzukisfrog]

mostly water & sodium with some artificial flavorings. it's often heated in the microwave & eaten with crackers.

[Jolly Rodger]

isn't that dip?

[suzukisfrog]

i'm suzukifrog not googlefrog.

[Jolly Rodger]

i am jolly rodger not i-really-give-a-fuck-what-you-have-to-say rodger

[suzukisfrog]

then quit acting like the latter. just throw your hands up and surrender. you know how to do that don't you?

[Jolly Rodger]

hello

[Athelwulf]

Hmm . . . Now that this thread's in the Cesspool . . .

Fuck you all, you bigots!

[guthrie]

Buddah1 is entirely correct- heterosexuality is a disease. A sexually transmitted disease!