Venus Offers Whatever It Takes For UFOs

[bradguth]

I should really fit right in here; SciFi that is, or perhaps NOT!

This page is also on behalf of admiring the likes of NASA's warm and fuzzy gang(s) of incest borg troops:
uplink.space.com
apollohoax.com
GOOGLE.com
fantasticforum.com
badastronomy.com
National Geographics
PBS-NOVA productions
Scientific American
And of so many others (far too many to list) having been thoroughly snookered (thousands of folks having been snookered to death) and otherwise folks having been absolutely dumbfounded in spite of hearing and seeing the truth and nothing but the truth. Whereas thus far they've shown absolutely no remorse whatsoever, meaning that even if knowing the truth they would not have changed one damn thing, especially the part about stuffing those bucks into their bank accounts, as they would just as soon be snookered and remain part of the "skull and bones" borg collective as not, that is if there's another buck to being made, and as willing to make the ultimate sacrifice if need be, much like how tens of thousands of innocent folks have been snookered literally to death over WMD leaves all that much more of the pie for others. As such, I'm thinking the likes of Hitler and of a Cathar exterminating Pope would be absolutely proud of these incest borgs.

Unfortunately for NASA/Apollo, Kodak film doesn't lie about recording the available spectrum of light, nor is it responsible for selectively making portions of the moon retro-reflective as stipulated by their apollohoax borgs, nor can that Kodak film somehow manage to place an image of Earth where it simply is impossible to be, and/or account for the physics of placing Earth too far away is yet another task that's not something Kodak film accomplishes, but mostly it was the false levels of contrast due to the lack of atmospheric defractions, plus the spectrum skew or lack thereof natural (bluish, near-UV and UV/a) sunlight which was obviously replaced by that of xenon illuminations offering the Earth like solar spectrums.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-apollohoax.htm

Venus has whatever it takes for accommodating UFOs; as in there's life on Venus, in spite of NASA.

This topic is NOT of very good science fiction; NASA just lies, and I do believe those borgs have been incest cloning upon one another.

In spite of our NASA, Venus offers absolutely whatever it takes for the likes of UFOs, intelligent other life and then some, and apparently our moon hasn't been set foot upon, at least not by way of being photographed by anything Kodak.

If you and this group say that you are believers in UFO, as I am, perhaps those of you that haven't already been assimilated into the NASA/Apollo borg collective should start re-thinking about where those suckers have been coming from.

Mars; there's absolutely no freaking way, at least not within the most recent few centuries worth because, it's simply gotten way too damn cold, as if you're not sufficiently underground you'd also become relatively easy impact targets, as in pulverised by whatever is incoming because of the thin (1% of Earth) atmosphere that's hardly slowing anything down. And above all else you'd soon become TBI to death in no time at all, and besides all of that, there's hardly any accessible energy to being had, at least nothing in the way of any thermal/energy signature as of all the probes having thusfar detected upon. Although at this rate of exploring the likes of Mars, we'll likely uncover those WMD sooner, and at not 0.01% the cost of our discovering said energy upon Mars.

Sirius is certainly offering a remote possibility, especially if there's still a Sirius/c planet that's somewhat if not more so protected as well as Venus is, although your to/from commute would certainly be a real killer. I'll be the first to give these UFO ETs all the technological credits in the universe, but perhaps chances of their making 10% light speed isn't being all that realistic, although 1% light speed (3,000 km/s) is certainly doable, that is if your spacecraft could afford to generate enough EMPD (magnetosphere) as to fending off those otherwise lethal dust-bunny items that would just as soon penetrate your sorry butt before you'd even realize what just did you in. BTW; even that zippy 1% amount of light speed is roughly 100 fold better off than anything that's on our future drawing boards. Thus even the prospect of 10% light speed makes coming from Sirius into 90+ years worth, of which anyone the least bit human isn't ever returning home as to tell the story.

Before going anywhere at 10% ls, please calculate this; KE=.5MV2, as applied to a mere two grams that you're running youself into a 30,000 km/s (that's 30e6 meters per second), then process the same as for a small and thereby relatively undetectable rock of two kg.

2 gram = 900e12 joules (900 tera joules that'll transpire into 10 meters of shield in three micro second)

2 kg = 900e15 joules (900,000 tera joules that'll transpire into 10 meters of shield in three micro second)

So, lets say that ET already had this 10% ls capability, and the sufficient physical and/or EMF shield as to fending off whatever, and as such you traveled yourself all the way from the likes of Sirius/c, arriving into our solar system in merely 90+ years. Now decide upon which (other than Earth) planet would you select as your base camp or outpost, and if all that you needed was a good cloak as to hide away from the sorts of absolute incest cloned stupidity and arrogance of Earth (mutated DNA), but otherwise required an easily accessible resource of energy (perhaps lots of energy)?

I believe this is where my duh-101 physics and absolutely "no kidding folks" gets involved, as in suggesting that some of the dumb and dumber fools that have been so easily snookered all their lives need to take further stock of this motherload and absolute holy grail worth of all the "what if" factors, of what's been discovered as per clearly associated with the likes of Venus, especially ever since my not-so-recent discovery of what our crack NASA teams managed to over-look for more than the past 14 years and counting, and have since ignored altogether for more than the past 3 years as they favored their dog-wagging incompetence and utter stupidity as to rule over their stinking cold-war or bust universe, or perhaps this sort of perpatrated denial is somewhat more ulterior motivated than merely of some typical bureaucratic oversight.
NASA snookers the world, and then some; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

If there was ever a more than qualified planet as for establishing a UFO outpost, that was sufficiently near to Earth but essentially cloaked by thick clouds as for remaining out of sight and thereby out of mind, and least likely as to being explored with any sort of open mind as to uncovering the likes of other life NOT as we humans know it; guess what folks, it's an absolute NO BRAINER. Oops, there I go suggesting that members and associates of this FORUM might actually have even half a brain between the entire lot, much less the least bit capable of their operating that half-brain outside of their NASA/Apollo incest cloned borg collective space toilet.

Sorry about that last rant; I usually only get that pissed off after I'm attacked, though I thought I could follow in our resident warlord's means and ways by offering a preemptive attack upon the sorts of intellectual WMD that's just about everywhere, except nowhere, if you get my drift.

I mean to say, if the likes of ET ever needed a suitable home away from home, as a viable base camp that was energy worthy and sufficiently interesting to say the least, talk about ETs having a freaking thrill a minute, or more like a thrill an hour as for the likes of ET sky-diving on Venus should be worth at least an hours worth, as in falling through that thick soup that's nearly 10% the density of water at the base, especially of a cooler nighttime seasonal base, and of potentially adding in as much a as yet another -5 km if you're body surfing all the way down into the likes of a Venus death valley, or into one of those steep canyons, of which Venus has lots to pick from.

Even if you merely started off well below those nasty nighttime clouds, say 25 km and proceeded your sky-diving adventure from that point, perhaps using some extra basalt fabric of your thermal flight-suit and/or applied those expansive lizard hands, plus inflating some of that lizard skin as into body-flaps, or as using a portion of your tail in order to improve upon the amount of flight time, as that's got to be worth something. Of course, an decent nocturnal of the exoskeletal variety might have those hard wing-like body parts, thus they could follow them thermals and stay aloft as long as necessary.

Actually, situated below those nighttime layers of humanly nasty clouds should offer a acid free and relatively calm flight zone that's potentially of 35 km, as otherwise you'd want to be within a rigid airship that's capable of cruising above said clouds, such as at 50+km might do the trick, although having the capability as to operate near to 75 km would be advisable, just in case some of those fast moving clouds try to cut you off beforehand.

If ET ever needed a nifty home away from home (besides Earth), as to park their UFOs, I'd believe Venus is it.

Anything else in our solar system besides Venus would be either too hot and/or way too cold, although if some horrifically cold planet or moon offered a viable resource of energy, then nearly all sorts of hot, cold and nasty things become surmountable, although establishing upon the energy thing takes priority, as without energy you'd die.

For an example; if our moon offered a few geode like pockets, of which it must have such due to it's unusually overall light weight attribute as compared to that of Earth which offers such pockets, whereas also a hollow rille or if some artificially developed to/from passageway was created, as such this sort of natural cavity would become just the initial ticket as for sustaining life on the moon. It seems that I've also learned of our moon hosting a 850°C core that is basically just sitting there, and obviously it's not all that far under ground.

Otherwise the moon clearly offers at least twice the worth of nuclear elements/m3, plus all of the solar impact that'll provide another 1400 w/m2 (sterling thermal differential energy conversion heaven), and supposedly there's loads of He3 or 3He to boot. Then there should also bcome a tether dipole amount of energy that's worth extracting up to 5 terawatts continuously, and I believe that's without reversing the lunar recession.

The lunar space elevator(LSE-CM/ISS) just so happens to support a nice set of counter-rotating flywheels situated at the ME-L1 (nullification zone), accommodating of nearly any size or mass that'll suit the needs of storing and subsequently distributing energy on demand, as in hundreds of gigawatts if need be. Actually the total flywheel energy storage capacity could become that of many terawatt hours, and offering a rotating kenetic storage efficiency of 99.99%/year, if not better.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[coolmacguy]

This topic is NOT very good science fiction; NASA just lies, and I believe those borgs have been cloning one another.

In spite of our NASA, Venus offers absolutely whatever it takes for the likes of UFOs, and then some, and our moon hasn't been set foot upon, at least not by way of being photographed by anything Kodak.

If you and this group say that you are a believer in UFO, as I am, perhaps those of you that haven't already been assimilated into NASA/Apollo borgs should start re-thinking about where those suckers have been coming from.

What evidence do you have that there is a base on Venus used by UFOs. Postulating a theory is fine, but if you have no evidence to support it then it becomes irrelevant.

[bradguth]

OK, I believe you've got me there, as I can't actually prove much of anything past the SAR image indicating upon a good number of items looking a whole lot more artificial than not (suspension bridge and a whole lot more, although I don't have a clue as to why any UFO ET would be in need of any stinking bridge, but none the less there it is), and that those pesky laws of physics seem otherwise to be more than suggesting that all sorts of things are possible, and/or surmountable, especially when you've got the sorts of unlimited energy to work with;

Such as CO2-->CO/O2

Air conditioning is certainly a NO BRAINER

Rigid airships are yet another physics-101 matter of fact.

And you can just as easily extract nifty substances by way of (physics-101) vacuum distillation, such as to obtaining any number of megatonnes worth of H20 from roughly 5.5e20 kg worth of clouds and haze.

BTW; your "if you have no evidence to support it then it becomes irrelevant" is just as irrelevant, unless you'd care to suggest that God doesn't exist, nor Osama bin Laden doesn't exist simply because I can't prove that either does exist. Christ almighty, I can't possibly prove that you even exist, much less any WMD, and so what does that accomplish, or don't you believe in the laws of physics, or of the possibilities within evolution and/or of creation accomplishing something that's a whole lot better off than this absolute mess on Earth.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

[coolmacguy]

BTW; your "if you have no evidence to support it then it becomes irrelevant" is just as irrelevant, unless you'd care to suggest that God doesn't exist

No, that's dealing with stuff in a totally different context. God/Existence/Origin of Universe et al are things that can not be measured or quantified by scientific examination or analysis. What UFOs are, who controls them, what they do, etc. are things that can be. The effort to establish the answers to those questions can proceed on a similar level. If we had the technology one would presume we could fly to Venus and categorically prove or disprove your theory by examining the evidence on Venus in a scientific manner. Hence, if you are stating a theory in that regard, namely that they use Venus as a base, that is a matter of physical reality not dealing with the metaphysical realm (God, etc.). Consequently, you should employ procedures consistent with the established scientific practices of examining observable reality. Science demands you provide evidence to support theories. The existence of God is irrelevant. That's something science cannot deal with.

nor Osama bin Laden doesn't exist simply because I can't prove that either does exist.

Osama bin Laden has categorically been shown to exist. I could produce videos of him. Can you produce videos of the UFO base on Venus?

or don't you believe in the laws of physics, or of the possibilities within evolution and/or of creation accomplishing something that's a whole lot better off than this absolute mess on Earth.

Now we are back to the same thing I discussed above.

BTW, I am most definitely aware of the overwhelming evidence establishing the existence of UFOs. However, I am equally aware of the lack of evidence showing that there is a base on Venus.

[Arch_Rival]

Sigh......Brad Guth....look kid, no need to advertise your theories all over the place. If your theory is sound, with evidence or points of discussion, even if it's just speculation, i'm sure many people here would be happy to discuss the possibilities with you. Since you don't get it, advertising by multiple cross-postings don't validate your theory.

[craterchains (Norval]

Welcome to sciFOOLEMS forums. Yep, you have some interesting ideas and I find them within the realms of good probabilities in many ways. Will be spending some time reading your work. Yah gots a lot of thoughts, keep going. If this don’t make yah crazy and you survive these deceivers here, well let’s just say they all may not be human?!?!

[FieryIce]

Hi Brad, there is a lot of reading at your site. Have you been doing this research for along time?
Deep subsurface on Mars may be another or may have been.

I have been doing research for about 4 years now with craterchains (Norval) and what you can learn from the little scraps of information and data that is out there is amazing.

I wouldn't be overly harsh on some like NASA (I say that thru gritted teeth) for the only reason being that there are ones among their ranks that do see what is going on and fully disagree with it. But those few had better get out from those institutes and very soon; when people start learning about the magnitude of these secrets and deceptions and the terror these deceptions have caused to people and their lives, these institutes with their organizers will be labeled the terrorist.

We have also been doing research over forums, recently, The responders when real information is presented, how they respond, even their wording, it has become like a simple daily task like brushing your teeth to pick out who is who (Information Control, Agents, ET).

With the amount of information on your web site it may take these responders a few days to organize their approach to you, it will be very interesting. Buckle up.
:D

[blackholesun]

Hmm FieryIce. Brad will not agree with you on Mars. According to him Mars is and was always a dead world....too cold he says. And if you don't agree with him your an "incest borg" working for NASA.

So even crackpots disagree...good to know.

[Stryder]

I suppose I seem an Information Control Agent hey FieryIce?

As for Brads actual post, I tend to look at expectations that we as the human race should generate velocity to get from A to B not necessarily being the right step.
What I have been thinking of (and wish I could do a little more homework with) is the use of Spacial Distortion in the sense that bending A to B although supposedly takig up energy, might actually be far easier than transversing it.

This would mean that rather than spending 90+ years to travel, you could just step through whats commonly known as a wormhole and appear there. (Well fly a craft through a hole into a nearby safe space)

Admittedly it's Absolute theory with no mathematical science to prove it, just speculation and hunches. It could be a protoscience that develops or it could just be a pseudoscience shifted into the archives, none the less it beats walking there.

[craterchains (Norval]

As Brad brings up and so does FieryIce, going underground is the ticket. Both as protection from possible attack, and from harsh environments. By using small nukes you can make your own openings and hollows just about anywhere. The radiation can be quickly dissipated and the area made safe for habitation. I suspect Mars, Venus, and many other places including our moon and Phobos, and Phoebe too may have had many underground installations of different kinds. We have just begun to explore our own solar system with probes, what will we discover next?

Now if we could just get some straight answers and all the missing data and radioactivity readings that should be available?!?! Fat chance of that. But we are slowly finding bits and pieces. There are many images that are not available to the “general public” that I would love to see. FieryIce and I have spent weeks at a time going through many photo data bases of NASA et all looking at thousands of photos. Many are just bad photos. But now and then you get one that is an eye opener.

Stryder has a point for sure in that any stellar travel is gonna have to make some major advances in ways of getting there and back. That takes a lot of imagination and trial and error. So often trial and error has proven the theory wrong. Heavier than air machines can fly, the “sound barrier” is just a broken theory, and we have attained a small foothold in the heavens.

Nothing is impossible to an engineer / dreamer. Only impractical.

[kmguru]

Why Venus? Why not Antartica on Earth? OR even Australia 2000 years ago? Earth is more hospitable during our low tech days. So if those aliens existed then, they would have bases here too. Let us dig.....

[blackholesun]

many other places including our moon and Phobos, and Phoebe too may have had many underground installations of different kinds

You know. I believe that every moon, planet, comet we discover and get good photos of you'll believe was involved in some alien influence. You spoke nothing of Phoebe in the past...but of course as soon as images come in you quickly adopt it into your pointless "theories" and now, according to you, it's loaded with crater chains and underground bases. Typical nutbag.

[craterchains (Norval]

Kmguru
Yes, I am a bit puzzled about that myself. Mars has / had an atmosphere that could be handled. Temperatures that could be dealt with and over come. Venus on the other hand seems quite a bit less hospitable. Although if it is reasonable deeper under ground then it could be a viable location. As far as the structures on Venus goes that Brad talks about that remains to be explored. There are a few photos I have in my collection that bring to mind “structures” from several locations in our solar system. If it is true that ET has been around here for several thousands of years, well, they had to hang out some where

It is because of our level of technological understanding today that allows us to even be able to question such concepts and be a threat to them as far as discovery goes. Prior to this they would have just been demons and apparitions and gods of some kind or another.

blackholesun
Fut the shuck up if yah can’t add to the thread topic, huh?
Duhhhhhh, we didn’t have any good photos of Phobe UNTILL the Casini probe.
If,,, and NOTE that I was SPECULATING, if I were Bad ET’s I would consider burrowing into an asteroid as a garage for a large interstellar craft and just use smaller, say a few hundred foot size craft to maneuver about interplanetary. It seems to bother you that some can speculate and discuss these things and you feel that you have to attack the people as you are unable to debate or discuss.

[Stryder]

Norval, Just remember the "Heavens Gate" lot thought there were ET's inside a comet and look what they did. (This is why all those into ET's should be very careful about what people they listen to as they might pick one of these mass murder/suicide nutjobs to be their voice and opinion.)

As for Blackholesun, Your going to have to calm down and just post something on topic, just outright hateism doesn't prove anything to the people you imply are nutjobs, in certain respects you could suggest that angle of attack is futile.

If you want to hit at the hearts of them, then find credible scientific reports that provide truths and not speculation that are damaging to their relative warped way of thinking.

[craterchains (Norval]

QUOTING Brad:
This page is also on behalf of admiring the likes of NASA's warm and fuzzy gang(s) of incest borg troops:
uplink.space.com
apollohoax.com
GOOGLE.com
fantasticforum.com
badastronomy.com
National Geographics
PBS-NOVA productions
Scientific American
And of so many others (far too many to list)

And let's not forget the Koreshites either. Stryder, as a fool and their money are soon parted so too with ones life and following others blindly. Like believing the little white coated gods that are called "scientists".

[kmguru]

Here is something that needs to be considered too. We all know, that Venus is about the same size as Earth. But somewhere I read that a billion years ago, the sun was much cooler and hence, the life zone could be around Venus to have life. If the zone moves outward to the solar system, towards sun going nova (it gets hotter as time passes) - then there is a possibility of life that was on Venus.

Something to munch on!

[blackholesun]

It seems to bother you that some can speculate and discuss these things and you feel that you have to attack the people as you are unable to debate or discuss.

Well I can speculate all I want that a hippo built Mr. Everest. Unless I have evidence to support my theory I can't really build off of it like you tend to do. I have no doubt that when images of Titan finally come in that you will add them to your alien warfare "theory". Same goes with every other moon and planet in the solar system. So, fine, speculate all you want.

[Persol]

If you want to hit at the hearts of them, then find credible scientific reports that provide truths and not speculation that are damaging to their relative warped way of thinking.Odd... we tried that. Craterchains is the perfect explain. Zarkov is also near the top of the list.

It doesn't work... and as long as we have this junk on a science forum, I say make fun of them all the hell you want. Maybe when they
a) post scientific
b) respond to something scientific (with a response other than 'you work for nasa', 'borg', or my favorite 'it is a conspiracy')

Until then... fuck em all. Kooks.

[bradguth]

coolmacguy;
I can tell right off that you don't trust those Magellan SAR images, but you seem to be in favor those Kodak moments upon our moon that couldn't possibly have transpired, if in fact they were photographed by said Kodak film.

The notion of the age old question as to UFO base or not. In this instance I was just tossing out the conjecture that nicely fits the mold, at least the known laws of physics sort of mold of what's doable, and besides why the hell not Venus?

On the other hand, we have nice borgs like "Arch_Rival" that assume every forum category has members that look throughout every other posted forum topic, almost as though they're actually interested in all matters, and thereby don't need to be bothered.

FieryIce;
Yes indeed, I been at this far too long, and I'd just as soon find some specific expertise that's willing to focus upon a given topic, of which I could offer a considerable list to select from.

I tend to agree with your "these institutes with their organizers will be labeled the terrorist", and perhaps then some.

It's good to hear about others coming on-line, and I'll expect they'll find way more than my fair share of mistakes, although fortunately none of mine has gotten anyone seriously dead, like those of NASA/NSA/DoD and of our warm and fuzzy warlord.

blackholesun;
I never stipulated that Mars was "always dead", in fact, I've recently tied into the possible thawing of life on Mars to a 10,000 year window of opportunity (thanks to Sirius) upon a cycle of roughly every 110,000 or so years, and I concur that there's a number of items that look sufficiently artificial to me rather than not. However, as for the more recent history and of the near future of Mars isn't a good picture for life as we might think of, which doesn't exclude glycol based radiation proof microbes, or of something other surviving sufficiently underground, although apparently of a cold blooded nature since there's been no thermal signature as of yet.

Stryderunknown;
At this point I'll accept all the speculation you've got. Thus if there's a wormhole to being had, that's good enough for me.

craterchains (Norval;
Your understanding of the need for being underground is correct for the likes of Mars or our moon. Hopefully either of those will already have geode like pockets to deal with, as then all we need to do is tunnel into them. Venus on the other hand, especially within the nighttime season, is perhaps less radiated than Earth, certainly well shielded from the vast bulk of any meteorites, and there's loads of free energy to burn, or for making thing a whole lot cooler, including whatever CO2-->CO/O2. The likes of basalt and silica composites is good for anything structural, plus there is R-1024/m worth of insulation value to go along.

kmguru; "a billion years ago, the sun was much cooler"
How true, I've researched into several alternative sources that indeed placed the planet Venus as not only being cooler in the past, but of otherwise relatively new to our solar system, which might even involve the history of our moon.

Persol;
In spite of yourself, I like your rage.
I've recently updated my "Kodak moment" on behalf of the NASA/NSA/DoD ruse of the century, included a link into an official Kodak document that says it all as far as I'm concerned.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photons-m3.htm

[bradguth]

If UFOs were limited to 1/10th light speed, or perhaps even 1% light speed as within the soup of our inner solar system (trust me, you don't want to be running into anything even at 1% LS), the location of having a base of operations situated upon Venus would certainly be a far better choice than of being sub-frozen to a fairlywell, easily pulverised and otherwise TBI to death upon Mars, and even that notion of using our moon which we can circumnavigate with reasonably good instruments, in that hiding out on the moon would not be my first choice, nor second, unless there's one hell of a big geode pocket within that's undetectable from satellite.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photons-m3.htm

BTW; Those instantaneous down-loaders are seriously killing off my limited bandwidth, in other words, it's becoming difficult for me to post an updated or new page without everything coming to a halt, thus you may want to consider the alternate account for extracting whatever you'd like; http://geocities.com/bradguth/update-242.htm or of any other files.

[kmguru]

bradguth, is there a cliff notes to your site? I got throughly confused on your June27th update about President Bush, DHS etc....

[Rick]

Why Venus? Why not Antartica on Earth? OR even Australia 2000 years ago? Earth is more hospitable during our low tech days. So if those aliens existed then, they would have bases here too. Let us dig.....

'Aliens existed several years ago' has become hackneyed expression,Not to say those Lummox Aliens existed several years back,but really if you take some bits and pieces,you"d find that Aliens word is rather inappropriate to say for our Neandearthal or Homo Sapiens Ancestors as i have a reason to believe that if Humans can advanced like we have now in such a short span of time,may be then too they advanced.May be this is just cycle of Advancements and Degradations.

Footprints of our Ancestors with several evidences point at something strange,something we have difficulty in believing.How could a Civilization back then be so advanced?.This idea primarily roots from West,which apparently tends to believe that it started the advancements in our current civilization.So,it could be that during Early phases when "West" didnt exist completely,Aliens could have helped in building the advanced Civilization...Which is rubbish.Human intelligence was same back then.We all know of several examples from India and over the east where several ideas given by West were thought off before the Western science was even born,Thus,it is difficult as i understand for west tor realize the ideas of East which were given in early years but were not prevelant in West when the science was Born.
Ultimately West is embracing the east and its philosophies and Vice versa.The world is shrinking to global thought and Mind Matter is becoming more practical day by day.

thanks four your time.
bye!

[Rick]

Km,
i thought Venus was made up of Volcanos on the crust.These were active Volcanoes isnt it?.Life exists on higher temperature indeed,but atmosphere and UV rays absorbants absence might make it difficult for us to realize that Life was really existant in Venus(I could be wrong though.)

bye!

[coolmacguy]

I can tell right off that you don't trust those Magellan SAR images, but you seem to be in favor those Kodak moments upon our moon that couldn't possibly have transpired, if in fact they were photographed by said Kodak film.

Well that is exceptionally vague. What the heck are you talking about?

[bradguth]

kmguru;
Sorry about all the "favor returning" upon all the flak I've received.

Basically I have a few less complex pages, though you might want to get as specific on a given question as you can, as otherwise I tend to lose control over words and of sharing a few too many rants.

zion;
Venus has all of what you say, and then some.
Life may no longer be all that simple, as hot and nasty as its gotten. However, I believe Venus wasn't always so freaking hot, nor as nasty as of nearly as a few thousand years ago.

As an example; the notion of being advanced and intellectually capable of expressing ones self doesn't have to include anything radio.

Keeping in mind that, with energy (Venus having loads of spare energy) all sort of things become surmountable, which still doesn't represent that such intelligence would what to have anything to do with the likes of Earth.

coolmacguy;
Sorry, I incorrectly assumed that you were questioning the worth of those Magellan SAR images, of which a few of those images seem to tell us that something modified the local terrain into something other that has never been recorded an accomplishment by mother nature, thus leading my three remaining brain cells in conjecture overload.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm
and my anti-apollohoax KODAK MOMENT: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

[bradguth]

Here's just another offering for the fun of it; Venus for dummy's

1) It's way too damn humanly hot.
2) Nighttime is much cooler but, still too freaking humanly hot
3) They've got all the energy in their world, available on demand.
4) With said energy, all sorts of insurmountable things become surmounted.

For those of you in need of a fully scientific prognosis, such as a NASA/NOVA class of documentation as per what Venus has NOT to offer humanity;

goto into most anything NASA.gov moderated site as for obtaining the following valid reasons as to why other life has been so absolutely impossible, and of why we should NOT do Venus.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/planets/venuspage.html
1) Bla, bla, bla, bla.
2) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.
3) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.
4) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.

Of course, this prospect of accommodating other life upon Venus is not speaking for the sorts of intelligent lizard folk that have long since grown accustomed to the heat, and accustomed to their nighttime season that been confirmed by KECK-II as being offered a rather nifty greenish (ionised O2) amount of glowing clouds, and otherwise as a nighttime season viewed by folks having a nocturnal visual peak sensitivity of 407 nm that's good for perhaps 170,000 lumen/watt, and otherwise accustomed to being parked nextdoor to the most absolute dumb and dumber other dumbfounded planet in the entire universe, as unfortunately there's only so much one can do about such things.

It's too bad that the few within NASA that claim they care can't seem to remove themselves from those Apollo nondisclosure space toilets, as it's apparent that they had to apply lots of super-glue to each of those toilet seats as part of their initiation into the cloak and dagger division of their Skull and Bones cult, as a method of insuring whatever goes into the crapper stays there until well past death, as even those official NASA coffins have an apendage structured just for accommodating that super-glue attached space toilet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile
Although no hyperthermophile has yet been discovered living at temperatures above 113°C, their existence is very possible. However, it is thought unlikely that microbes could survive at 150°C or hotter, as the cohesion of DNA and other vital molecules begins to break down at this point.

Of course this notion for such "hyperthermophile" life is based upon a near surface thermal environment pressure of one Bar, or slightly greater if situated just under the surface, whereas the starting compression point for the likes of life on Venus can be as great as 120 bar if situated in a nighttime valley floor.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[kmguru]

Just a little off topic: What do we need to do to start a nuclear reaction to Jupitor so that it could be a mini sun?

[kmguru]

bradguth:

May I recommend that when you post any speculation, supposition, ideas etc here at sciforum- pseudoscience, please be concise. We have plenty of very very smart people that can easily understand what you are trying to present without blasting NASA or any body else or writing a book.

Otherwise you would lose the very people you are trying to communicate.

There is nothing wrong in speculating, but let us do it the way people can understand.

Just a suggestion.

I agree with you and posted that Venus could have been cooler long time ago. There is also a possibility that the run away green house effect could reverse itself as the planet could be like a living system.

[bradguth]

kmguru;
The igniting of Jupiter notion is a wee bit more than slightly "off topic"

Since we have no practical method of getting all that much of anything physical off to Jupiter, or Jupitor as you've named it, I suppose we could start things off my utilizing every available GW we've got within this greenhouse warming world of ours, as in reapplied as focused laser cannons, and of keeping those multi-Gigawatt class units on line until the very last drop of oil and every last m3 worth of natural gas is gone.

Then what?

Perhaps we should establish those robotic lunar based VLA-SAR receiving apertures, so that our astronomy wizards can get that 100 mm resolution look-see at the surface of Jupiter before we seriously fry whomever or whatever is capable of surviving upon Jupiter.

Perhaps better yet, we should create a specific topic of "anti-terraforming, and/or "Planet Destruction" by way of arrogance and stupidity", just like a certain resident warlord we all seem to know too well.

or is that being a little over the edge?

[kmguru]

Works for me...:D, I am glad you have a good sense of humor....

[bradguth]

I seem to be having another one of those "bad forum days" with my other topic:
There's life on Venus, in spite of NASA

Stryderunknown
Cybernautic Hologram (2,782 posts) Yesterday, 10:29 PM
report | reply
[Mod note]
Btw, if anyone reported anything it didn't get through.
Seems like you guys took this thread right off the beaten track, I'm glad to see the Thread starter attempt to get it back on track.
[/Mod note]

Venus I think will have always been too hot for life I believe, although It might be the direction we migrate when the sun starts cooling down, of course if it coold down too much we might want to start running into the cold void of space rather than sit on a timebomb, but thats a very long time in the future for us (although a battering of an eye for the universe)

I think it would be very unlikely to find anything to premote the notion of life there, in fact I wouldn't be suprised if it's classed as a relatively young planet in comparison to our own and Mars.

Still, as with everything it all boils down to evidence at the end of the day, and if you haven't any now all you can do is hope you accumilate some later. It's also best to remember it's a theory, speculative and theoretic in essense it has no proof, so when people Stab wildly flailing that you need evidence and it's hopeless without any just point out your intension is to look for evidence.

I'm CLOSING this thread because theres one already open on the same subject.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stryderunknown;
Perfectly good points about Venus being too darn hot for life as we know it, and perhaps much newer to our solar system is also right on topic.

Given the opportunity, I might have suggested the notion of "teraforming" via folks from the Sirius star system, that which could have had a Sirius/c planet that was similar to Venus, if not one in the same. In which case the artificial influx of life is what I've been detecting, and thereby not of any evolution or creation of life as we know it.

I can't but help notice how all of the official moles encharge of NASA's "spin" and "damage control" are focused upon skirting around the "KODAK MOMENT", not to mention the prototype lunar lander test flight documentation, of which at least that item should have been on film as equally spectrum unskewed as were those lunar/Apollo images, since those prototype images would have been illuminated by filtered sunlight, or via xenon spectrum if being photographed at night.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

[bradguth]

It seems that some folks in this forum are not whom they pretend to be, instead they string you along as though they actually care about furthering your topic, when in fact they have absolutely no intentions of doing anything but undermining whatever is outside of their "mainstream status quo", as such having a pre-disposition towards converting and/or subduing anyone they can. It's a game of which only certain forum "godfathers" can pursue with absolute impunity, and without remorse.

Unlike myself, of which I have a certain pre-disposition to the notions of other life existing elsewhere than Earth, and partially because of what I'm perceiving as more likely artificial than not about what's observed as situated upon Venus, whereas others opposing the notions (any notions, and no matters how well founded) of other life will go to whatever means and extremes at their disposal, which includes but is not limited to locking down a given topic, or that of ultimately banning a non-convert altogether.

In order to prevent such from getting out of hand, I'd like to simply focus this topic upon the notion or sub-topic that Venus offers all the energy in the world, by which all sorts of insurmountable issues become surmountable. Thus energy is the all important undertow of this topic, whereas without a great deal of said energy, even the likes of reasonably advanced and intellectually capable forms of life (UFOs or not) are going to have a seriously tough time of their surviving upon Venus, leaving us with the sorts life to those robust microbes and/or the likes of silica diatoms, as forever floating about those relatively cool clouds.

Sub-UFO-topic is now upon: ENERGY

[blackholesun]

Just a little off topic: What do we need to do to start a nuclear reaction to Jupitor so that it could be a mini sun?


You need a little of 1000 times the mass of jupiter. Sorry Jupiter is just too small to initiate a fusion reaction on its own. You might want to hope for a brown dwarf impact and hope they fuse.....unlikey as that is.

[blackholesun]

It seems that some folks in this forum are not whom they pretend to be, instead they string you along as though they actually care about furthering your topic, when in fact they have absolutely no intentions of doing anything but undermining whatever is outside of their "mainstream status quo", as such having a pre-disposition towards converting and/or subduing anyone they can. It's a game of which only certain forum "godfathers" can pursue with absolute impunity, and without remorse.

Or maybe they are adhering to the practice that "extreme claims require extreme evidence". Frankly I'm glad these folks are questioning those who take it upon themselves to rewrite the science books with nothing more than blurry images of old lava flows.

Oh and go ahead and call me a "borg" proud and true. I don't believe you're right...let alone more right than wrong. So if that qualification makes me an "incest borg" by your definition then so be it. I'll stick with Nasa's word for it. Besides...you're not getting us any closer to Venus, or Mars, or Jupiter, or Saturn......ect. Truth is that there are a lot like you that believe in radical speculations and they all think THEY'RE the ones who are right. And of course they call us skeptics all the same names you do..that we aren't "proactive" or "don't think outside the box" or are "closeminded". The trouble is you haven't convinced me. Not because I'm the above but because you have nothing that to prove to me otherwise. Film can be processed, filters can be used, maybe that photo you so loving hold on to as "evidence" was in fact prepared as a sort of portrait...just as NASA throws all the moons of one of the gas giants into a "mural" of sorts. The truth is images are enhanced...by EVERYONE these days. It happened in the past and still happens today. I don't go screaming "HOAX" just because of it. You ignore rock samples, the space race (and russians drooling to call hoax at the drop of the pin...they monitored our missions btw), video footage that couldn't have been faked back then, and equipment left on the surface that worked for years after.

[bradguth]

blackholesun;
"I don't go screaming "HOAX" just because of it"

Me neither, at least not for the first 6 months worth of honest efforts as to nicely communicate what apparently I alone perceived as being a whole lot more artificial looking than not.

Onto the topic of ENERGY, of which I'm fairly certain the likes of "blackholesun" borgs will automatically attempt to self-destruct before our eyes, as opposed to offering squat worth of equal or better notions.

No matters how advanced or primitive, any survivor upon a planet such as Venus needs access to energy, though not necessarily as much as you'd think.

Here's my energy shot in the dark of surviving their nighttime season in style;
At the absolute worst 10 kw/hr/ET, at best 1 kw/hr/ET, and even less if having become a bit more reptilian or preferably exoskeletal in physiology, as well as cold blooded couldn't hurt, and if possible well acclimated from a little of Darwin's evolution in DNA mutations would certainly have gone a long ways towards getting that artificial energy demand per adapted ET down to as little as 0.1 kw/hr.

If physical space travel were capable of 10% LS (30,000 km/s), chances are that the nearest other community (by a good factor of at least 10) that might have been worthy of offering a Venus class planet is Sirius, and as such we're talking about 90+ years just to get here, while continuously having to expend a great deal of their energy reserves as for fending off whatever particles of anything much over 2 mg, which isn't an option. As for any sort of physical shield to accomplish the likes of fending off larger items of 2+grams while at 10% LS is expecting a survival from those 900e12 joules/s per impact, of which said impact isn't going to dissipate over any second, whereas instead it's going to transpire in a few micro second, thus unavoidable and extremely penetrating to say the least, especially if that 2 gram particle is relatively dense and thereby compact, such as a small amount of iron, which actually shouldn't be all that uncommon.

Thus having to bring along a sufficient supply of energy for this amount of travel and duration of stay on such a remote planet, plus enough reserves as to get back home might not be all that doable. Although, reaching out to a planet of natural geological and atmospheric energy resources seems like a whole lot better notion. Thus as long as the planet they're settling upon is sufficiently loaded with the right sorts of energy alternatives, this group of space travelers need only configure for a one-way energy ticket.

Lo and behold, and unlike Mars or even Earth, Venus has way more than it's fair share of said energy.

The most common and easily available method of obtaining energy is via kinetic extraction, as accomplished from utilizing the vertical pressure differential of 4+bar/km, and of tunneling whatever volumes of said pressurised and good density worth of CO2 as to pass such through a radial power turbine. A relatively small scale of this sort of installation might look somewhat like a cooling tower of perhaps as little as 100 meters in vertical offset, of perhaps 50 meters diameter at the base and 25 meters at the top where the power turbine vents said CO2 differential back into the lower pressure zone that's at least 0.4 Bar less than of the base inlet.

This 0.4 Bar differential doesn't sound like all that much, that is until you do the math on what's transpiring as the inlet volume of mostly CO2 of 65 kg/m3 is directed upward becomes accelerated by a factor of at least 2:1, thus the inlet volume of 1963 cubic meters and of an initial velocity of perhaps one meter per second is transformed into 2 m/s, that's having to exit through the upper 25 meter diameter turbine opening.

That's 127,595 kg/s worth of mass that going to create energy, if you want it or not. Even with 20% conversion/friction losses, that's still greater than 100,000 kg/s that should represent something that's rather hard to pass up, especially if you're having to survive on such a hot and nasty planet. Of course, creating a full blown km worth of vertical offset differential that's taking advantage of the 4+Bar/km, of a structure offering perhaps a 400 meter inlet diameter and 100 meter outlet which might induce as much as a 10 m/s exit velocity, as this is where we're talking about some sort of serious energy potential that's not only there for the taking, but continuously available day or night, and absolutely non-polluting at that.

As for the pint-sized 100 meter tower of power;
KE=.5MV2 represents 50e6 * 4 = 200e6 joules, or a continuous resource of 200 MW. Give that another worse case outcome of producing electrons @25% efficiency and that's merely 50 MW, which should be sufficient for sustaining at least 5,000 individual ETs, or perhaps fifty thousand of those cold blooded exoskeletals.

Besides pressure differentials and volumes of terrific density of what the mostly CO2 medium offers for extracting energy, there's lots of other viable alternatives, that is if those pesky laws of physics work similar to here on Earth. And, with said energy is where all sorts of insurmountable issues become surmounted.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

blackholesun;
About all those dirty rotten Russians, and of their flying machines.

Lo and behold, they too were snookering as many of their fellow countrymen, woman and children as possible, and for pretty much the same cold-war reason(s). Thus even if it were discovered that ours wasn't for real, there were thousands of highly paid and sought after positions within the Russian counterpart to that of our NASA/NSA/DoD which offered tens of thousands of even more prestigious positions and of considerably greater wealth to boot, so much so that in no holy way in hell was either mutual scam upon humanity going to be interrupted.

And about all that film, and so much other in 50 mm still images, by way of being recorded upon KODAK film; there's a wee bit of a spectrum skew problem, or actually a lacking spectrum skew factor that absolutely proves those images were never exposed to any lunar environment, and that's a fact.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

[bradguth]

ENERGY IN = ENERGY OUT
Application of whatever energy must always have a counterpart of thermal exchange or balance, as energy influx must always = energy out, and as such it'll be important as to obtaining and utilizing a fair amount of insulation, of which the mostly thermal conduction mode needs to be dealt with, along with such incorporating a number of thermal radiant barriers, that which the likes of basalt micro-spheres and/or of silica spheres will due quite nicely.

R-1024/m isn't all that difficult to create, especially in such a toasty and thereby bone dry environment. Even the notion of such micro-spheres being those of a vacuum within is hardly physics-101.

Basalt/silica composites alone are easily 10 fold better off structurally per kg than alloy steel, especially at elevated temperatures, and obviously the notion of any rigid airship constructed of basalt and perhaps silica composites is yet another done deal that's obviously impervious to whatever those acidic clouds have to offer. Thus cruising up anywhere near to and/or even through them clouds isn't a factor of corrosion, nor of any thermal concern. As for cruising above them nighttime clouds is also entirely possible by way of those pesky laws of physics, as certainly there's sufficient buoyancy and absolutely no shortage whatsoever of CO/O2 upon which to fuel and oxidise the necessary combustion as for powering this airship, and if need be there's always a little H2O2 for whatever boost as to further improving upon the situation at hand.

At least 25% of the 5.5e20 kg worth of Venus clouds and haze is in fact H2O.

Good gosh and golly geez; I wonder what the heck anyone with half a brain could possibly do with a few mega tonnes worth of H2O?

Of course, extracting said H2O is another one of those physics-101 solutions, which naturally the likes of borg "blackholesun" is either going to disagree or simply not give a flying airship puck about, perhaps that's because he's still a certified borg member in good standing with the "Flat Earth Society".

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

Energy wise; there's other than vertical atmospheric pressure differential and of CO/O2 energy to being had.

Within the image (of which I'd suggest that you process your own PhotoShop upon), there are in fact a number of items looking very much reservoir like, and some of them reservoirs are interconnected, as well as containing something that is highly energy absorbing, thus depicted as dark in color, as in radar energy absorbing dark, even though the actual optical color could be absolutely anything. This could be a mud like substance, and/or just plain old clear sulphuric acid if you'd care to speculate, as otherwise the substances of lava mud flows or possibly petroleum based muds, or even that of pure H2O2 is another substance that's sufficiently stable under that much pressure.

Not too far below the main township or community of "Guth Venus" is that of what I perceive as a rather large fluid arch, having the initial outlet erosion and termination or depository related erosion patterns to boot, of which this only brings up the notion of various hydrodynamics, and/or of whatever associated substances or energy related elements there is to being had.

I'm thinking (which is nearly always a bad sign), if there were any more easily available energy resources upon Venus, that as such it would have exploded, which actually might of have been the case that brought upon their greenhouse overload in the first place, or perhaps by some wise-ass lizard wizard experimenting with the notion of adding fusion into their environment of what was already overloaded with energy.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

You do not burn Venus air, at least not the invaluable portion of O2;
I also have an ongoing work-page or report containing something about Venus air, which may not suffice for mere humans, but nor does water.

This isn't my stipulating that there's a great deal of free O2 just laying around. Although, we humans at 68 Bar have been sustained upon the likes of 1% O2 and of the rest being 99% H2.

Then there's that little matter of KECK-II imaging upon the ionised O2 (green glow) that's existing within those nighttime clouds, and then there is that matter of Sir Alen Heath imaging that spot of rather nifty illumination, whereas we're talking at least in terms of megawatts.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-air.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/illumination-spots-02.htm

[bradguth]

Speed takes energy, as much as for slowing things down;
If UFOs were as such limited to 1/10th light speed, or perhaps even 1% light speed as for navigating within the relatively thick soup of our inner solar system that offers as much as 1e9 various atoms/m3 (trust me, you don't want to be running yourself into anything all that much more so substantial, as not even at 1% LS unless you don't mind becoming a comet), whereas the location of someone other (obviously a whole lot smarter than us) ET having a base of operations situated upon Venus would certainly have been a far better choice than of being sub-frozen to a fairlywell, easily pulverised and otherwise TBI to death upon Mars. Even that notion of using our moon which we can circumnavigate with reasonably good instruments, in as much as for hiding out on the moon would not have been my first choice, nor second, unless there's one hell of a big geode pocket within that's undetectable from satellite.

This isn't my stipulating that Mars was always so unfortunate, as I've previously stipulated upon the orbit of our solar system as being under the much stronger influence of the Sirius star system, whereas being responsible for creating at least a 10,000 year window of opportunity upon Mars to sustain life. Although, once the added influx advantage of the 375 nm peak spectrum of Sirius became too far away to matter (say 1+ light year), of the available energy alternatives and/or reserves of Mars simply were not there to be had. Thereby, at the outside maximum, I'd give life on Mars 20,000 years to put up or shut up, as otherwise you're going to get your sorry butt frozen solid, or pulverised and/or TBI to death, or all of the above.

In order to reasonably circumvent your demise upon Mars, for that you'll need loads of energy, and apparently most of that as being imported. As for the amount(s) of said energy/person, I believe surviving Mars would be suggesting upon somewhat greater demand per individual than upon Venus, and that's perhaps based upon only if most of that energy were imported, and if otherwise you spent the majority of your life underground.

Of course, if you'd care to redefine life as being worth a year or so, then you can certainly do almost anything you'd like to accomplish upon Mars, except contemplate ever returning home as to infect Earth with Mars. Unfortunately, all the banked bone marrow in the world isn't going to alter your demise once that much of your DNA has been destroyed, and for such an extended period of time.

Whereas for sustaining life on Venus (at this point I'm still referring to non-humans), having way more than it's fair share of easily available energy, and loads of accessible geological elements to boot, at least there's practically no chance of your being pulverised, nor is there as much influx of radiation reaching the surface as here on Earth, at least not while residing within their season of nighttime. Whereas the Venus season of daytime might be a real killer, especially if it's another one of those bad sun spot sort of seasons.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/energy-resolve.htm

[craterchains (Norval]

Brad, have you studied Jupi's moon Europa?
You may find some highly interesting content in those photos.

[bradguth]

Sorry, it seems I've been just a little preoccupied with that pesky matter of "life on Venus", and otherwise of the truly horrific sorts of values and potential for humanity with respect to our moon, of which the LSE-CM/ISS offers just the necessary ticket(s) if we're ever going to arrive safely at other planets and/or moons like Europa, of which I do agree that it's quite interesting. The notion of our going off to visit the wizard of Oz as per some Godforsaken Jupiter moon is asking a great deal from humanity, especially since our global environment is being cooked into a serious greenhouse, and that our resident warlord has just recently flushed trillions of hard earned dollars and euros into that cold-war space toilet of life, along with a few tens of thousands of innocent lives (I wonder how much extra those lives are worth?).
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm

I've updated a couple of my old energy related pages, of what's mostly related to Venus, and I've even improved a touch upon the index page.

There's lots of energy related issues to be considered and contemplated, that is unless you don't really want to know exactly where it is that all of those UFOs hide out. Surely folks don't believe that ETs are immortals, as otherwise the closest other star system that could have supported a Venus like planet is Sirius, and at 10% light speed is 90+ years away, and at the more realistic velocity of 1% light speed represents a good 1000 years.

I see no problem in the level of applied intelligence required of space travel capable folks, in their dealing with a little heat. I do believe that of surviving long enough as to commute to/from Sirius is quite another issue, that's only made worse off if they're from somewhere further away, as it seems there is a relative terminal velocity as for physical items traveling through space, unless they're into another dimension, and if so why are they bothering with what's left of Earth?

David Sereda has those official NASA documented images of large craft that look as highly energised, as functioning within an energy field of what was recorded in the UV/a spectrum (invisible to the human eye), whereas in which case it's possible that the 10% light speed velocity might be possible, although I believe the fastest moving physical substance ever recorded by our astrophysics wizards was in the range of 600 km/s, and that's not even of 1% light speed.

You might want to offer some feedback on that topic of "terminal velocity", as that is a serious consumption of energy just to defend your craft from all that nasty stuff in space, as for the likes of impacting a kg worth of whatever at even 500 km/s isn't going to be a survivable outcome, at least not of anything that's on our drawing boards for the future. So, how much of an energy field is needed for deflecting such debris, and sustaining your SOA?

Keeping in mind that energy in = energy out.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/energy-resolve.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/energy-options.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-air.htm
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[JoojooSpaceape]

BTW; your "if you have no evidence to support it then it becomes irrelevant" is just as irrelevant, unless you'd care to suggest that God doesn't exist, nor Osama bin Laden doesn't exist simply because I can't prove that either does exist. Christ almighty, I can't possibly prove that you even exist, much less any WMD, and so what does that accomplish, or don't you believe in the laws of physics, or of the possibilities within evolution and/or of creation accomplishing something that's a whole lot better off than this absolute mess on Earth.

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm
sounds like your trying to bullshit your way out of showing supporting evidence.

[bradguth]

Sorry about all of my previous word overload.

JoojooSpaceape;
"sounds like your trying to bullshit your way out of showing supporting evidence"

What can I say, here's yet another blind and snookered fool that apparently can't manage to accomplish anything for himself, though oddly elects to not offer squat worth of anything specific, and otherwise has prove that I'm right about his form of humanity being the very cesspool of life. I'm not even going to suggest that perhaps these fools should accomplish there own look-see, as that would be asking too much and of expecting a touch of intelligence at best.

Again, I'm not at this time nor have I ever been referring to Venus as anything suitable for humans. After all, we're clearly not even smart enough as to realize when we're being snookered by the likes of a sand pirate such as Saddam, or even by those rusemasters of NASA/Apollo. Thus chances of our surviving Venus, even though such would have been within the existing realm of applied technology, plus that of having essentially loads of easily established resources of energy, this simply isn't an option for the likes of dumbfounded folks.

Although, by way of terraforming or just that of an expedition outpost by other folks that are obviously not nearly as dumb and dumber as most Americans, nor as easily snookered, could easily have set up camp, if not permanent residence.

Either way, something a whole lot bigger and way more intelligent than diatoms accomplished what can be seen, and those laws of physics prove that it is possible, even under the present hot and nasty aspects of such testy life upon Venus.

Obviously UFO/ET folks would not have had the least bit of any difficultly in dealing with that sort of environment. If their interstellar travel speed was something of a conservative 1% LS (3e6 m/s), as such that's 1000 years in just getting from Sirius. In which case almost any shore leave should do quite nicely.
Terminal velocity; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-terminal-velocity.htm
310 X Light Speed; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photons-m3.htm

Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

Calling Venus is within a local laser area code, thus no LD charges.

Interplanetary communications (Earth/Venus) is strictly for our benefit, and possibly for our salvation if things keep going into that proverbial space toilet, whereas such communications is not as likely for benefit of Venus. As for what possible reason would Venus have need of their communicating with such an incest populated planet as Earth, especially when the very fiber of our existence is based upon a long history of superstitions, suppositions and/or best of all are those damn bloody religious and perpetrated cold-wars, plus so many other lies upon lies as being told and formally published by perpetual liars like GW Bush that obviously don't give a tinkers damn about humanity, unless it's their personal humanity/butt that's on the line.

It seems rather clear that science and the likes of physics has been more than willing to lie their butts off, if that's what it takes as to being mainstream politically correct, thus publicly funded. Keeping the truth from the public is actually far worse off than outright lying, whereas the American political system of what's supposedly the all-knowing leadership of this human pack has become so incest infected with arrogance, greed, bigotry and just otherwise for being as downright nasty as all get out, isn't exactly something another civilization that's perhaps much older than Earth, or of at least a whole lot wiser than, should bother with (at least not if they can foresee what's good for them).

Within my research, I've got a good number of pages on the topic of such interplanetary worthy communications, one of which is; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/radio-maybe.htm

And there's lots more on the communication topic listed in the UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[Persol]

whereas such communications is not as likely for benefit of VenusJust a hint... hot balls of gas, liquids and solids don't really care if you shoot lasers at them.

[bradguth]

Fair enough;

Though even though the Venus season of nighttime as for being elevated at 5+km isn't all that relatively hot and nasty, and since there's R-1024/m of basalt/silica composites to work with, and essentially unlimited energy available, as in GW if need be. I suppose if you were as dumb and dumber as you've indicated such dumbfounded folks would in fact be, and if you're referencing that as to humans, I'd agree that there's absolutely no point in calling Venus.

If I lived on Venus, being that I'd have to be so much smarter than mere humans, I certainly wouldn't answer the call, no matters what.

Of course, an extended laser call to Venus, as in 24/7 for an entire year might cost perhaps 1% of just one Mars probe/mission. Just think of all the spam and smut exploitation possibilities.

[Persol]

I personally like how we can't even use lasers to call spacecraft in orbit... but you want to use it to call Venus.

[bradguth]

I didn't say it would be easy, just a whole lot cheaper and obviously much faster than going for Mars.

What's you best guestimate for power, spectrum and beam divergence, as to being noticed on the nighttime surface of Venus?

There's actually some good opacity numbers on them clouds, and reasonable chances of dispersement in photons getting through.

I've already logged my ideas, so what do you think is possible, and don't try saying that it's impossible, as that would only prove that you're the village idiot instead of myself holding that title.

Obviously the Boeing/TRW ABL, at a delivery of 100 MW and at 0.5 milliradian would offer a wee bit overkill.

[Persol]

We are constantly sending out signals as a planet. A laser is somewhat... well... stupid.

[Blindman]

It still amazes me that some dude siting in front of his computer can find evidence of life on Venus while the worlds scientific community spends millions, no trillions of dollars trying to find even the smallest sign of extraterrestrial life with no luck.

But of course you do back up your evidence with insults.

A smallest sample of your proof from this thread alone.


here's yet another blind and snookered fool that apparently can't manage to accomplish anything for himself,
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perhaps these fools should accomplish there own look-see
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or even by those rusemasters of NASA/Apollo.
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obviously not nearly as dumb and dumber as most Americans
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the all-knowing leadership of this human pack has become so incest infected with arrogance, greed, bigotry and just otherwise for being as downright nasty as all get out
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I suppose if you were as dumb and dumber as you've indicated
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1) Bla, bla, bla, bla.
2) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.
3) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.
4) Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.
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It seems that some folks in this forum are not whom they pretend to be, instead they string you along as though they actually care about furthering your topic, when in fact they have absolutely no intentions of doing anything but undermining whatever is outside of their "mainstream status quo", as such having a pre-disposition towards converting and/or subduing anyone they can. It's a game of which only certain forum "godfathers" can pursue with absolute impunity, and without remorse.
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perhaps that's because he's still a certified borg member in good standing with the "Flat Earth Society".

The bla bla one fills me with awe. If only I could have such powerful proof.. By the way its Blah not bla.


This is the one I really like
as in there's life on Venus, in spite of NASA.

Oh and this one.I'd have to be so much smarter than mere humans



There's plenty more now littering this forum, with way to many, puck this and puck you's, for my sensibilities. At first you posted in Pseudoscience, cool, but then you started moving your foul language to other forums, congesting otherwise interesting threads with nonsense and insult.

So may I suggest that you move your Life on Venus thread to SiFi. You won't have to swear as much.

Pseudoscience is for crack pot concepts, ideas, postulation, even a little creative interpolation, well a lot. Yours is just a story and dude most of us could tell a much better story then you.

Note to moderators.
This may not be on subject and also not quite in the spirit of Pseudoscience. Yet bradguth's belligerent attitude to this community has got under my skin and if I can't make him be nice then maybe you could gently persuade him to stop pucking, opps thats, (FUCKING) swearing at us. I did a search of SciForums with google, the string “Puck bradguth” got a total of 31 records. With me “Puck Blindman” no result (until this post of course).

[bradguth]

Dear "Blindman" or whomever you really are;

Obviously your brains have been stuck in one of those nasty space toilets, as you'd otherwise have noticed how I haven't insulted those offering their notions or supposedly better ideas, and even answering relatively stupid questions, whereas unlike yourself, at least I'll do my best as to convey what I perceive is there to being seen as existing upon Venus, and/or I'll share what little I've learned about them laws of physics and biology, and I'll even share my thoughts as to specific numbers, of which you "all-knowing" folks could not be the least bit bothered with because, you wouldn't have altered history nor the future even if you could.

My ongoing research and/or learning curve on behalf of what we should have been doing with the likes of our moon is at least focused upon benefiting humanity, whereas your focus is upon sustaining your mainstream status quo at all cost, and without remorse.

As for "life on Venus"; case closed, as it has been there all along, except that you're too arrogant if not dumb and dumber as to ever realize squat, much less life on another planet. Or, don't those laws of physics pertain to Venus?

"Pseudoscience is for crack pot concepts, ideas, postulation, even a little creative interpolation, well a lot. Yours is just a story and dude most of us could tell a much better story then you."

NOTICE TO MODERATOR GODS.
I wish you'd do just that, help tell this story in a format of polished science and physics that isn't as skewed as those NASA/Apollo events, something of a NOVA class production might be quite nice. As for anything Apollo is a serious bad story line if there ever was; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

And there's lots more to share within my UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

Persol;
"We are constantly sending out signals as a planet. A laser is somewhat... well... stupid."

BTW; 99.999% of life on Earth, in one way or another, utilizes photons, thus your DNA must be of the 0.001% that's outside the loop.

What do you suppose created the horrific illumination spot that emitted from Venus, such as the one captured by Alen Heath?
http://www.julianbaum.co.uk/BAA_MV/MVVenus.html

Give me some of your calculations or ideas as to the photon energy/m2.

How much applied technology does it require as to communicate via visible light?

Why would Venus lizard folks utilize much if anything radio, especially of anything of low frequency like our microwave stuff, when their environment is crystal clear upto perhaps 35 km, thus site to site usage of extremely little energy would allow for absolutely terrific communications, whereas 1 watt of near-UV (407 nm) could provide as much as 170,000 lumen/watt if we're speaking of a sufficiently nocturnal vision. And, utilizing a reflected beam off the bottoms of them coluds is good for perhaps 1300 km, where as little as a 1 watt laser beam could produce what could be visually detected on the other end by that lizard eye.

Radio maybe is simply instead of radio; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/radio-maybe.htm

If radio like technology existed, of which it might, that technology would most likely be tuned to the near-UV spectrum, so that terabytes/ms of quantum-packet smut could be transmitted and subsequently received by whomever had pay-per-view. Although since their environment is nicely surrounded by a very electrolytic cloud layer, whereas such a low frequency and of relatively low amount of RF energy could easily circumnavigate their globe with just a few watts, assuming vacuum tube technology unless they utilize diamond as their solid state crystal medium.

And lo and behold, there's lots more (a bit far reaching) to share within my UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[blackholesun]

How much applied technology does it require as to communicate via visible light?

Not much. We do it with fiber optic all the time. You need a laser and detectors. Modulate a frequency of light, add data, and send it away. Receive, decode and demodulate at the other end and ta-da! You can do the same with laser in free space (not through fiber optic) but your limited to how tight you can focus the beam and the energy needed to reach a certain distance. Here on earth you don't need much energy but you need to worry about atmospheric dispersion of the photons. In space this isn't a problem. Over long distances you need to be accurate in aim so the detector can detect it.

BTW; 99.999% of life on Earth, in one way or another, utilizes photons, thus your DNA must be of the 0.001% that's outside the loop.

Unless you're talking about a photon as an electromagnetic force carrier that statement makes no sense.

As for "life on Venus"; case closed, as it has been there all along, except that you're too arrogant if not dumb and dumber as to ever realize squat, much less life on another planet. Or, don't those laws of physics pertain to Venus?


No, case not closed. If your proof is insulting people without providing a lick of evidence then you're the bigger idiot here. Oh wait you'll just insult ME now. That's all the firepower you have isn't it. And if its YOUR notion of physics that pertain to Venus then no, your "pesky" laws don't apply; the ones that have worked for decades in the real world do.

[Stryder]

Wasn't it said that a Laser the size of a pin head from out planet pointed at the moon would show the size of a football (soccerball), so you can image the size alteration the further you go.

The only thing you can really do to deal with this is to have more than one source of the same output that attempts to triangulate them all to one point. close range this would frazz something (too much photonic energy and we are talking cooking lessons) however at greater ranges it would be possible to communicate, however the greater the range the greater the "array" of lasers would have to be placed apart.

Light though is potentially not the best way to communicate since after there are so many planets and creatures on our own planet that can't even see.

[blackholesun]

Stryder, it all depends on how coherent (pure) the beam is for the amount it widens. The more coherent a beam is the less it widens over distance. Plus you can take some steps to focus the laser to a point down the line. You can start with a wider beam and focus it farther out with minimal error in the data.

[Persol]

But radio signals are still much easier to send/recieve.

[blackholesun]

Exactly. Unless you need extremely high amounts of bandwidth there's no reason NOT to stick to good old radio and microwave frequencies.

[bradguth]

blackholesun;
Your analogy of communications via light has intentionally skipped over the biological forms of accomplishing such tasks, whereas the level(s) of required technology is zilch, although you'll do need an eye and at least half a brain.

You're right about my 99.999% factor of life utilizing spectrums of visible light (including those having UV/a and IR spectrum coverage, of which humans are the most limited, although other senses are similar but not nearly as fast as light. So I'm a wee bit over the line with regard to the percentages of biological formats utilizing visual communications, but you get my point, or perhaps not.

This is an old page that's simply my way of suggesting something instead of radio; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/radio-maybe.htm

If you're stipulating that your own personal laws of physics and thereby logic do NOT apply to Venus, then perhaps you are correct that rigid airships couldn't possibly exist, much less function, and apparently life certainly couldn't have made a go of it when there's so freaking much energy as to being had, and so on, or in what's clearly depicted as most likely artificial as existing upon Venus is just good old mother nature running amuck as usual, even though nowhere else can such artificial looking items be identified as existing elsewhere other as anything so natural.

Persol;
"But radio signals are still much easier to send/recieve."

blackholesun;
"there's no reason NOT to stick to good old radio and microwave frequencies"

For mere humans that still can't manage as to cummunicate with the other 99.9% of life on Earth maybe, but certainly not as for better than humans. Energy wise there's absolutely no contest between a radio beam and that of a 0.05 milliradian laser, even a .5 milliradian beam is relatively energy efficient, especially if that's utilizing something of near-UV instead of IR.

The required levels of providing RF transmitting and subsequent receiving technologies are considerable to those of light, and that's if each knows the proper frequency and can demodulate as well as decode such RF transmitted data.

In fact, instead of radio, the 425 nm (+/- 25 nm) spectrum would due quite well, whereas 400~450 nm worth of sufficiently focused energy would nicely illuminate through their nighttime clouded sky, at least enough to matter.

I've already stipulated about utilizing a TRACE-II like instrument outfitted with a few laser cannons and photon receivers, as situated at Venus-L2, thus nearby and always situated over their season of nighttime, in which case hardly any energy is required and, the illuminated spot would become relatively small, though still highly dispersed once those photons are delivered through them clouds of perhaps offering at least 10% opacity, to as much as 25% opacity at the 425 nm spectrum.

Stryderunknown;
"creatures on our own planet that can't even see."

I assume that you're referring to folks that could somehow manage see all of those small and thus nearly invisible WMD from satellite images that were at least 100 fold better resolution than those Magellan images of Venus, but somehow can't manage to see a damn thing (such as a rather substantial bridge and a few dozen other attributes of greater interest) existing on Venus that isn't entirely natural? http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

-
"Persol" and "blackolsun"
If yourself and others you know of are so selectively blind (visually bigoted), and as such supposedly can't biologically communicate via light, then exactly how the heck do you know those Magellan images are even those of Venus, or of whatever is natural rock and other hot and nasty stuff?

Aren't you looking at CRT or TFT generated photons, as those coming off your computer screen, or is your's one of those nifty braille interface tablets?

Visually, what do you folks/borgs consider as communications, or not?

If someone hits you over the head with the blunt end of a big and nasty flashlight; that's certainly a perfectly good form of communications.

If instead of having to hit your empty head with said flashlight, we first shined it's bright light in your dumbfounded eyes just prior to hitting your head with the butt of that flashlight, whereas it seems as though that beam of photons is yet another perfectly good form of communications that could have been initiated from miles away, whereas you seem to be stipulating as to the physical blunt force trama as being the preferred form of communications, even though such represents a rather considerable delay and a million times more delivery and impact force/energy having to be applied, as opposed to perhaps a mere watt of those zippy photons, of which any decent nocturnal might detect as 170,000 lumen/watt.

OK, so therefore folks such as "Persol" and "blackolsun" have sort of proved my point, that mere humans are absolutely arrogant, as in dumb and dumber when it come to comprehending interspecies communications, much less as for interplanetary communications. Obviously the dumber such humans get (if that's possible), the more applied technology it takes as to communicating squat.

Of course, you could prove me wrong by way of offering some specific numbers on light getting to/from Venus, in which case I'd have to reconsider your borg status. Since you already know all there is to know, the specific numbers on a given beam of light getting into those nighttime clouds should not be all that difficult. Obviously, from seeing that old KECK-II image of the green nighttime glow indicates that we'd have absolutely no problem in detecting whatever is created in the way of photon emmissions coming from Venus.

[blackholesun]

So Brad's true nature finally comes out. Multiple assumptions and otherwise bad science in general makes that read probably the most stupid thing I have ever read. You place yourself high and mighty above the rest of the human race because you think aliens on Venus communicate via photons. Our eyes, like the eyes of any other creature...terrestrial or otherwise are just a sense with have...just like our sense of smell or touch. In that aspect maybe I should say that instead of a laser shined into Venus that we dump shitloads of pheromones into the atmosphere to communicate with the "lizard people" because a lot more species on earth use chemical signals to communicate back and forth...so my idea is much more plausible then yours...because I said so and whoever thinks otherwise is a brainslugged nimrod that works for the State Department/UN.

If yourself and others you know of are so selectively blind (visually bigoted), and as such supposedly can't biologically communicate via light, then exactly how the heck do you know those Magellan images are even those of Venus, or of whatever is natural rock and other hot and nasty stuff?

Hmm...maybe because you're the one CLAIMING they ARE! And even if they were from Bolivia nothing on the image looks like a bridge or town or whatever the hell pops into your head the day you wake up! Plus there is a difference with "seeing" and "communicating". If I look at a toaster are you seriously saying that the toaster is communicating its presence to me?

I assume that you're referring to folks that could somehow manage see all of those small and thus nearly invisible WMD from satellite images that were at least 100 fold better resolution than those Magellan images of Venus, but somehow can't manage to see a damn thing (such as a rather substantial bridge and a few dozen other attributes of greater interest) existing on Venus that isn't entirely natural? http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

Well we do know that any chance you get your push your political agenda/views on us. Frankly you can cram it with walnuts. We're talking about your claims of Venus not Iraq.

If instead of having to hit your empty head with said flashlight, we first shined it's bright light in your dumbfounded eyes just prior to hitting your head with the butt of that flashlight, whereas it seems as though that beam of photons is yet another perfectly good form of communications that could have been initiated from miles away, whereas you seem to be stipulating as to the physical blunt force trama as being the preferred form of communications, even though such represents a rather considerable delay and a million times more delivery and impact force/energy having to be applied, as opposed to perhaps a mere watt of those zippy photons, of which any decent nocturnal might detect as 170,000 lumen/watt.

OK, so therefore folks such as "Persol" and "blackolsun" have sort of proved my point, that mere humans are absolutely arrogant, as in dumb and dumber when it come to comprehending interspecies communications, much less as for interplanetary communications. Obviously the dumber such humans get (if that's possible), the more applied technology it takes as to communicating squat.

You can't go a day without insulting anyone can you? Stop being an idiot. We won't listen to you if you insult everyone. Hell I consider it a funny read to listen to the sewage you spout out every morning. It just proves our case more and more...so keep it up. If you talked to someone like that walking down the street you'd find yourself laying in the gutter unconscious. So we see light when you shine it at use...so what? We don't give off photons to return the message do we? Not many speices do and if you believe that you're a bigger fool than we all thought.

Point being is that you make up everything you believe in and you push it on us with an "I'm a GOD" attitude. There is a reason only Norval seems to take a liking to you; he's exactly the same way.....you should be roommates!

[bradguth]

That's correct, I make those "Multiple assumptions", as in way outside the box and along with way more than my fair share of errors to boot, like those I'm making about certain individuals that are seemingly not contributing squat, perhaps such as yourself.

I honestly didn't think that part about the flashlight analogy was insulting, as any two year old kid with half a brain should have been amused?

"We don't give off photons to return the message do we?"

Of course we don't give off anything that any decent ET could put to good use, though perhaps Venus ETs might take petty on us, and try to help resolve our greenhouse fiasco, as whom should know better?

Or perhaps they're all heathen ETs, and rather hot and nasty at that (like Osama bin Laden).

Share some of your mistakes, that is if you've ever made any, that'll give some other village idiot as myself a somewhat better understanding of applied laser beam communications. Of course, that means that you'll need to share in specific numbers, which may be restricted due to your nondisclosure agreement with NASA/NSA/DoD.

BTW; the only reason why the likes of GW Bush gets any fair share of my flak is because of his dog-wagging actions having cost humanity perhaps another decade-setback, plus trillions and counting, not to mention a few too many bodies laying about. Thereby our available resources as for accomplishing deep-space anything is seriously in the toilet. What's next?

That's why I thought it might be a reasonably good sort of thing as to staying a wee bit closer to home (moon/Venus). Whereas the fact that you can't see that Venus bridge, much less anything other that looks the least bit out of place, this is not my problem; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

[blackholesun]

I honestly didn't think that part about the flashlight analogy was insulting, as any two year old kid with half a brain should have been amused?

But calling me "dumb and dumber" and emtpy headed is an insult. I have thick skin but you do it to everyone who disagrees with you.

Of course we don't give off anything that any decent ET could put to good use, though perhaps Venus ETs might take petty on us, and try to help resolve our greenhouse fiasco, as whom should know better?

And there is proof for this where? You're good at stories brad...but that's about it.

Or perhaps they're all heathen ETs, and rather hot and nasty at that (like Osama bin Laden).

And he has something to do to it because? Oh that's right you just have to throw your political views in there too.

Share some of your mistakes, that is if you've ever made any, that'll give some other village idiot as myself a somewhat better understanding of applied laser beam communications. Of course, that means that you'll need to share in specific numbers, which may be restricted due to your nondisclosure agreement with NASA/NSA/DoD.

You're ranting about this because you have a wrong view of physics? Hmmm..I guess so.

BTW; the only reason why the likes of GW Bush gets any fair share of my flak is because of his dog-wagging actions having cost humanity perhaps another decade-setback, plus trillions and counting, not to mention a few too many bodies laying about. Thereby our available resources as for accomplishing deep-space anything is seriously in the toilet. What's next?

That's why I thought it might be a reasonably good sort of thing as to staying a wee bit closer to home (moon/Venus). Whereas the fact that you can't see that Venus bridge, much less anything other that looks the least bit out of place, this is not my problem; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

Only a mental patient would give you money for you to "extend" your theories. Although I'd have to admit that'd you commit suicide when you find out you've wasted your life being wrong.

[bradguth]

blackholesun;
"But calling me "dumb and dumber" and emtpy headed is an insult. I have thick skin but you do it to everyone who disagrees with you."

You already know that I do NOT apply the same analogies upon folks honestly sharing their opinions, and/or expertise as in your case. Since you are so smart as you suggest, thereby your empty head should be much fuller than all of what my head contains.

Wouldn't you assume a differing point of view, than persay one that I uphold to, would kindly offer their background and/or intellectual base of logic as to how that view was supported?

Such as, if you are stipulating that such a good amount of those unusual SAR image patterns are not only most likely natural, but in fact absolutely natural, and exactly as to be expected upon Venus (perhaps because you've been there), then you must have a reasonable stash of such other SAR images for accommodating that sort of conclusion, and as such, I and others would like to have a look-see, so that I too could become as wise and all-knowing.

BTW; If anyone was ever more dumb and dumber, as in thoroughly dumbfounded and thereby snookered as of at least four years ago, it was myself. As proof positive, one of the absolute dumbest dumb-ass things I ever did was to call this observational discovery into NASA, and not once but upon several occasions calling in and discussing matters, which was long before I ever had a single webpage. But then as an official NASA borg/mole that you are, you already knew that, so what's your sorry excuse?

As for the likes of biological illuminations retruning fire; there's any number of species that do such here on Earth, some of them sharing photons at horrific depths that would kill-off any pathetic human in less than a second, that is if it wern't for a good deal of applied technology.

With not hardly an once of intelligence, but merely from the benefit of a reflective surface (mirror), such visual communications can in fact be managed over greater than 100 miles without taking a single mw of expended electron energy, much less of any transistor or any sort of applied EMF/radio technology.

I guess, I'm not sure about your level of intelligence but, if I were on top of mountain-A, while you were situated on top of mountain-B, both of us freezing our butts off, though each of us with that suitable mirror and having the sun roughly at high noon, as such I think that perhaps one of these village moron idiots might actually be smart enough as to figuring out that of distant mountian tops don't normally share off binary code in the form of vast numbers of concentrated photons. Whereas, you're expecting us to believe that indeed the notion of mountains reflecting obnautous amounts of beamed light back and fort is not only entirely natural, but of the expected norm, thereby somehow confirming by your pathetic standards that there's absolutely nothing unusual nor capable of artificially going on, nor the least bit suggestive as to how primitve (pre-radio) heathen folks, stupid enough to being stuck on opposing mountain tops, might have utilized such a free source of focused photons, and of otherwise of such being intirely technology free method (other than the mirror itself) worth of accomplishing relatively long-range communications, as such by way of your standards suggesting that this analogy is being absolutely impossible, unless there's that pre-existing channel of radio assisted technology established first.

And this is the best you can do?
"You're ranting about this because you have a wrong view of physics? Hmmm..I guess so."

I do manage more than my fair share of rant, though I do not have that "wrong view of physics", so much as it seems that I have the need-to-know access only to what views upon physics that certain rusemaster folks like yourself are willing to share, even if you've got absolutely nothing backing it up.

Actually, the thought of my prematurely dying-off (as you've suggested) isn't nearly as bad as for being yet another devout Cathar exterminating or Jew exterminating pro-activist, as such borg like fools that'll follow their corrupt leaders after invisible WMD, or as to accomplishing absolutely anything it takes for sustaining their mainstream "Skull and Bones" status quo, at any price and without remorse.

Of course, you are supposedly not one of the "bad guys", but instead essentially stipulating that others like myself are the ones responsible for all that's gone so terribly wrong. This seems rather odd when every fiber of what I'm driving upon is entirely beneficial for humanity, and not at 1% of what your way has been costing. Which bring me into wondering, exactly what if anything have you given back to humanity?

If we did a SEARCH FOR "blackholesun accomplishments", or of some other key words, would there be anything other than a blackhole, or perhaps a vortex connected into the likes of a GW Bush butt, or don't such vortexes exist in physics?

Of course you must be worth the price, as you're certainly accomplishing far more "damage control" than most borgs, and as such you should be rewarded, or at least applauded for the valent effort.

As usual, I've got those updated files to share.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-badastronomy.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-apollohoax.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm

BTW; I don't need to "extend" my theories because, I have not had to reinvent any stinking laws of physics, nor lie about what I honestly perceive as to what's existing as most likely artificial, upon the elevated surface of Venus. And besides, I'd have no moral dilemma in taking money from a "mental patient", as at least I could offer by far the most BANG/RETURN for the almighty buck/euro, and without roasting another batch of astronauts at that.

And lo and behold, there's lots more (a bit far reaching) to share within my UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[blackholesun]

With not hardly an once of intelligence, but merely from the benefit of a reflective surface (mirror), such visual communications can in fact be managed over greater than 100 miles without taking a single mw of expended electron energy, much less of any transistor or any sort of applied EMF/radio technology.

I guess, I'm not sure about your level of intelligence but, if I were on top of mountain-A, while you were situated on top of mountain-B, both of us freezing our butts off, though each of us with that suitable mirror and having the sun roughly at high noon, as such I think that perhaps one of these village moron idiots might actually be smart enough as to figuring out that of distant mountian tops don't normally share off binary code in the form of vast numbers of concentrated photons. Whereas, you're expecting us to believe that indeed the notion of mountains reflecting obnautous amounts of beamed light back and fort is not only entirely natural, but of the expected norm, thereby somehow confirming by your pathetic standards that there's absolutely nothing unusual nor capable of artificially going on, nor the least bit suggestive as to how primitve (pre-radio) heathen folks, stupid enough to being stuck on opposing mountain tops, might have utilized such a free source of focused photons, and of otherwise of such being intirely technology free method (other than the mirror itself) worth of accomplishing relatively long-range communications, as such by way of your standards suggesting that this analogy is being absolutely impossible, unless there's that pre-existing channel of radio assisted technology established first.

So you're saying that reflecting sunlight from mirrors onto a mountain to a village below is a perfect analogy to your Venus "theory" even though the village might not know binary code or Morse code to decode...and even thought these "hot spots" on Venus aren't of alien origin.

If we did a SEARCH FOR "blackholesun accomplishments", or of some other key words, would there be anything other than a blackhole, or perhaps a vortex connected into the likes of a GW Bush butt, or don't such vortexes exist in physics?

No but you'd get a number of sites pointing to the song in which I named my username after. Unlike you I didn't create a useless site of incorrect statements, bad science and political rants. I put my time into work.

Oh and still important; you're the only one that sees "artificiality" in any of those SAR images.

[Stryder]

Guy's if your going to discuss whether aliens exist on Venus is one thing, but drawing the thread towards personalised commentary is another.

Bradguth,
If your website contains all the information you keep copy/pasteing to the board, could you desist, the consensus decorum here is to Quote a Paragraph within quote blocks and then apply a link if your quoting directly from a site, this is to lower the overall load that mountains of already available text takeup on forums such as these.

It also attempts to keep things SHORT and to the point, rather than looking like a wall of letters/words that tend to swamp people to the point of losing interest in the thread.

[bradguth]

Stryderunknown,
You're absolutely correct, in that your folks have been imposing their orchestrated agenda against what I've had to offer in requesting their expertise to help, though instead they've insisted that I continually defend myself asainst their entire mainstream status quo, which unfortunately takes those walls of words, unless I create new pages within my website. As such in the future (after this last "wall of letters/words") I'll do just that, post a brief statement and link to the rest of the story.

blackholesun;
"even thought these "hot spots" on Venus aren't of alien origin."

That's certainly an all-out and flat-out absolute statement, as coming from someone that can't otherwise see anything unusual in the SAR image to start with, nor wishes that any laws of Earthly physics be applied elsewhere. I'm assuming that you alone have some viable explanation for that horrific amount of illumination as depicted in the heath4.jpg?

The following statement may be about as good as words ever get, perhaps that's because they are NOT my words, though you can imagine how I find such a well formed statement as being true to what I have observed, and as to the somewhat limited degree of my applied scientific efforts at "assembling evidence, combining that evidence with assumptions, and analyzing the combination in a logical manner to develop a hypothesis", and as per "Empirical evidence is obtained by observation alone" which seems to pretty much sum up if not surpass what I've been expressing all along, though while having to defend my hypothesis from all of the orchestrated flak derived from your Godforsaken mainstream status quo having been nothing but a serious pain in the butt, as well as another perpetrated insult against humanity.

Of course, since you're so freaking smart, once again already knowing all of what's contained within this following statement, and then some. In which case this may be just another one of those GW Bush "high standards and accountability" moral resolutions of "so what's the difference?"

-

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=33392
coberst;
Science and Truth

The “scientific method” forms the heart of legitimacy for the natural sciences. This method consists in assembling evidence, combining that evidence with assumptions, and analyzing the combination in a logical manner to develop a hypothesis. This hypothesis is the bases for predicting what should happen in certain conditions if this hypothesis is true. Evidence is assembled to test the validity of the hypothesis. If the evidence indicates that the hypothesis has not been proven to be invalid then other predictions based on the hypothesis are used to construct additional experiments to further test its legitimacy.

The validity of a hypothesis can only be determined by empirical evidence. Empirical evidence is obtained by observation alone. Scientific observation can only show that a hypothesis has not yet been proven to be illegitimate. The empirical evidence derived from a test of a hypothesis proves, not that the hypothesis is true, but only that the hypothesis has not been proven to be untrue. Science does not deal in absolute truth but only in probability.

The reality of natural science is matter. When the scientific method is applied to the social sciences the test for validity is society. The reality for social science is society.

Matter, the reality studied by the natural sciences is essentially stable and non-changing. The truth of natural science discovered a hundred years ago is unchanged today. Such is not the case for the social sciences.

The social scientist is attempting to build a theory about a moving target and the social scientist is riding on this moving target while constructing the theory.

Truth is that which conforms to reality. The above provides evidence why the truth of natural science is stable and the truth of social science—the science of human affairs—is unstable.

Humans and not nature construct social conditions. The society in which the social theorist lives and of which she derives her present understanding of truth is a recent construct. It was constructed by those with prejudices, false assumptions, biases etc. that permeate her consciousness.

Truth in matters of human affairs is very slippery. The student of Critical Thinking is better able to deal with such a situation than is an individual who thinks he is a critical thinker. The Big Leaguer is a Critical Thinker the sandlot player is a critical thinker.

Does this mean that truth, in matters of human affairs, is subjective without any objective content?

Does social reality make truth and the theorist only brings theory and truth into harmony?

It seems that theory creates reality and is shaped by reality. Does social theory have any claim on logical truth

coberst

-

Whatever I or yourself can possibly have to add or substract from this "Science and Truth" statement is absolutely beyond my expertise, though I'm fairly certain that you'll find some ulterior interpretation as motive or agenda that'll justify and/or prove that only your interpretation of whatever evidence and facts are what matters, and as such humanity can just go suck another rotten egg before the likes of you'll concede to even assist upon anything that wasn't your idea to begin with.

You already know what my interpretation of the existing "social reality" is all about, that it is specifically situated within that proverbial intellectual space toilet, the same one that's emptying into that intellectual mainstream status quo cesspool that you call the truth and nothing but the truth. When in fact, that space toilet has been badly overflowing for decades (especially ever since the NASA/Apollo ruse), thus we're all having to stand around in our own, plus the estimations of others, as though it's the norm as opposed to flushing that stinking incest mess before it absolutely explodes and we all must die.

BTW; I've also looked at nearly every viable NSA/CIA spy image of Iraq and, guess what, I can't seem to identify upon one damn WMD, only a few tens of thousands of perfectly innocent folks that are no more, surrounded by a great deal of community infrastructure that's also no longer there to be seen, and all thanks to your mainstream less than moral ideals that seem to see absolutely nothing worng within that picture.

Warmest regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[blackholesun]

That's certainly an all-out and flat-out absolute statement, as coming from someone that can't otherwise see anything unusual in the SAR image, nor wishes any laws of Earthly physics to be applied elsewhere. I'm assuming that you alone have some viable explanation for that horrific amount of illumination as depicted in the heath4.jpg?

And reverse is even more true. Claiming, with no evidence (sorry but just because you SAY you see artificiality in your SAR images doesn't make it true) that there is life on Venus, and intelligent at that, is an even bolder statement given the planet's thorough by Russian and the US. And given that "earth" physics works just as well in putting spacecraft in orbit around other planets as well as on planets I'd have to say I don't know where you're coming from with that statement. You're the one that seems confused about topics in physics and biology so condemning MY knowledge of such is outright silly....especially since I'm the one that being agreed with.

BTW; I've also looked at every viable NSA/CIA spy image of Iraq

yeah...suuuuuuuure you have. Keep your political crap out of the thread because I could care less about how WMD correlate with life on Venus or that you think Al-qaeda are aliens. It just makes you sound like even more of a nut to everyone else here. Wait....keep it up!

[Stryder]

Something I've been looking at is using a Render engine (something like Renderman but far cheaper) to take some of the pictures and dice them up into less that 200px x 200px images. The program I was using "terraforms" based upon the shading of a colour, where a deep depression is Black and White is the peak (The peak being defined to be a particular size)

The outcome provided a "potential" landscape of a very small preportion of Venus, it looked as if the surface had been rocked by multiple venusquakes and potentially lava channels, not bridges and hamlets/city sprawls.

I would suggest getting hold of such software to pull the surface apart a bit more, you might be suprised by the findings but it's not going to suggest life, just barreness and hostility.

[bradguth]

Now you've got lava spanning a huge rille or canyon, with little if any arch at that.

I realize that Venus offers 90.5% gravity of Earth, but the likes of any lava or mud flow making that sort of leap, and of sustaining itself at that, is by itself a masterful event worth visiting in person, in spite of it being so hot and nasty.

And still, no credits for the unlimited amounts of easily available energy, much easier than anything here on Earth, and by a factor of many terawatts per square kilometer at that.

Brother, it's as though you've really got those lizard folk as absolute heathens.

Any chance you can process something on that potential tarmac, and share your results?

[blackholesun]

I realize that Venus offers 90.5% gravity of Earth, but the likes of any lava or mud flow making that sort of leap, and of sustaining itself at that, is by itself a masterful event worth visiting in person, in spite of it being so hot and nasty.

Here's his link: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/180-A.htm

Can anyone here truly believe he can depict a three dimensional object like a bridge and distingush it from an old lava flow that takes a bend from this two dimensional SAR image with a resolution equivalent to optical imaging of 1 km per line pair?

And still, no credits for the unlimited amounts of easily available energy, much easier than anything here on Earth, and by a factor of many terawatts per square kilometer at that.

Who cares? Jupiter and Saturn output much much more energy themselves then Venus could ever hope of doing. Hell the sun beats everything hands down in respect to energy output available. Just because there is available energy to use doesn't mean something living is using it. Energy is not a indicator of life.

Brother, it's as though you've really got those lizard folk as absolute heathens.

Well hell, they only exist in your mind, so its hard to make that distinction.

[bradguth]

Because "blackholesun" has been pretending all along as to being other than he is, I'm not going to always bother answering such absolutely pathetic questions, as it's almost as though I'm having to communicate over great distances with a blind man, or perhaps with his dog, using laser/photon communications or perhaps via those nearly free-energy mirrors none the less.

This is only a wee bit off topic, although directly related because it clearly demonstrates the premeditated extent of what the "mainstream status quo" of "http://scifourms.com" is willing to go through, in order to keep folks snookered as well as tight lids upon those badly plugged and otherwise overflowing intellectual space toilets. Whereas there was going to be another relatively short context on radiation added into my original http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38195 as recently locked down specifically because of the truth and nothing but the truth topic of "NASA uses LLPOF anti-flak to protect Apollo butts", that now has its external follow-up "wall of words" page; http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-scifourms.htm

In closing (if need be); you folks (specifically the likes of blackholesun and his personal "pro-everything NASA/Apollo" cloning partner Persol) simply don't hold a candle to the rusemaster likes of apollohoax.com, badastronomy.com, GOOGLE or even uplink.space.com, whereas most of which have purged my postings as soon as they could, and why is that?

All of this tit-for-tat as directed against myself would not have become an issue if there were a few interactive instruments reporting from the moon, as to exactly what the thermal and radiation as well as seismic issues are all about. Perhaps within the next decade we'll obtain the ability as to actually deploying such instruments, such as my javelin probes (http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-javelin-probes.htm) that'll offer a much better science bang for the buck than of the proposed "Polar Night" mission.

Instead of proving that something honestly different and new is possible, instead the likes of blackholesun and his personal cloning partners focus upon their "damage-control" duties, while never actually contributing squat worth of any specifics, although tossing out as much warm and fuzzy flak as possible is just fine and dandy by way of the standards being enforced by Lord Stryderunknown.

Instead of my having to return the favor, I'd rather be looking for viable alternatives that are in fact "outside the box" but within the existing laws of physics, in spite of others in this obviously skewed forum are intent upon protecting their mainstream status quo, regardless of the consequences, and without remorse, and best of all is that Lord Stryderunknown seems to approve of this.

blackholesun;
"Can anyone here truly believe he can depict a three dimensional object like a bridge and distingush it from an old lava flow that takes a bend from this two dimensional SAR image with a resolution equivalent to optical imaging of 1 km per line pair?"

and

"Who cares? Jupiter and Saturn output much much more energy themselves then Venus could ever hope of doing. Hell the sun beats everything hands down in respect to energy output available. Just because there is available energy to use doesn't mean something living is using it. Energy is not a indicator of life."

Firstly, I'm not going to argue about the composite of what's been illuminated (12 looks per pixel at the terrific perspective of 43° of perhaps 225 meters/pixel) via SAR imaging, or even of color or contrast issues, as to that of what a visually impaired soul sees, as what's the point?

BTW; I'm not insisting that folks agree that there's a suspension bridge like issue, although none others have offered any alternative conjecture that's worth a hoot, and especially since the bridge issue is rather minor compared to everything other.

I'll not agree with your "who cares?", as obviously NASA/NSA/DoD(DHS) couldn't honestly care less about anything of Earthly humanitarian values unless there's oil, or some other energy resource involved or another cold-war hidden agenda that needs doing, though I'll agree with your "Jupiter and Saturn output much much more energy themselves then Venus could ever hope of doing", as being quite true in terms of them laws of physics, even if Venus offers a hundred fold more easily accessible and perhaps a thousand fold more natural/green energy potential than Earth. Although, as for getting any expedition off to the likes of either Jupiter or Saturn is at least ten fold more time consuming for Jupiter and another ten fold on top of that for the likes of Saturn, not to mention the 100+ fold greater price tag to boot, and still absolutely no affordable way of launching sufficient mass (at least not without gassing Earth with thousands of tonnes of additional CO2) as to keeping either crew from being TBI to death, or otherwise impacted beyond recovery, but other than all of that, their horrifically spendy one-way missions should go along as planned.

I'll have to stop now, because of the "wall of words" criteria has been reached, if not breached.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[Stryder]

Instead of proving that something honestly different and new is possible, instead the likes of blackholesun and his personal cloning partners focus upon their "damage-control" duties, while never actually contributing squat worth of any specifics, although tossing out as much warm and fuzzy flak as possible is just fine and dandy by way of the standards being enforced by Lord Stryderunknown.

Instead of my having to return the favor, I'd rather be looking for viable alternatives that are in fact "outside the box" but within the existing laws of physics, in spite of others in this obviously skewed forum are intent upon protecting their mainstream status quo, regardless of the consequences, and without remorse, and best of all is that Lord Stryderunknown seems to approve of this.


There is actually a method to "Ignore/Filter" who's posts you want to read, therefore you can in fact completely ignore anything that you feel upset by. In fact I incourage the use of that tactic because it doesn't cause the communication of others to continue if no arguements are being insued because of being ignored, in fact I'll add this to the Rule notes just incase people point this problem out in the future.

My personal understanding is simple, I know what it's like to have an independant view and want to generate a report that is contrary to the consensus, I also know that no matter if Blackholesun and Persol were to be halted in attempting to gain answers (in no matter what frame of context they enquire) there will always be someone else there trying to get a rise out of you.

It pretty much leaves two options, realise that the world see's your theory as a complete failure in logic, or realise the world has a complete failure in logic not seeing your theory. However if you are/were to be proven wrong about your theory in any form could you knowing accept that you were/are?

As for your "suspension bridge", from my 3D scan which I can't go one hundred percent upon it actually looks like a clever shadow trick from two mounds being close to one another and a shadow being cast and the revine that you suggest a bridge stretched looks like an old lava channel with a crevis at it's centre.

Also there is the point that you tend to "Merge" alot of your arguements and statements, which you should try not to do. Doing so creates a problem in discussing an overall topic, it's as if your attempting to create a "String theory" in logic but to most, they don't compute the vectors of information tibits that you've ensnared over your self education on the subject.

(Namely they can't see how you leap from Energy concerns on this planet to Reptilians on Venus)

As I mentioned before if you do write down the logical progression you came to step by step, make sure it is STEP BY STEP, not a wall of worlds that clutters all the keywords together or most people will ignore/disrespute it.

There is also the other aspect of Crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run, Currently your insistant on something thats beyond running and we've rarely crawled further than our own orbit. It's not like we can store energy Efficiently and drag it back to the planet, and the current methods of using any Wireless method of transfering energy would potentially cause alsorts of problems to communication equipment and anyone caught in the crossfire.

[Persol]

My personal understanding is simple, I know what it's like to have an independant view and want to generate a report that is contrary to the consensus, I also know that no matter if Blackholesun and Persol were to be halted in attempting to gain answers (in no matter what frame of context they enquire) there will always be someone else there trying to get a rise out of you.But that's the problem.... he can push his theory all he wants, but he needs to back it up with SOMETHING. Anytime someone poses a technical question to him he blows it off and calls them borg.

[Stryder]

I'm suggesting you guys occasionally ask for information with a sarcastic frame of mind, from the number of times you've asked for information on a number of subjects that people don't supply the answers to.

Perhaps Persol you should come up with a Specification for Post submission and what amount of evidence is deemed acceptable before submission.

[Persol]

The only think you can do with crazy people is try to show them that their beliefs are baseless. If they are actually right, they should be able to explain why.

This isn't a subject of ethics or religion where the answer is largely due to opinion. This is a claim made proporting to have backing, but showing none.

[Avatar]

after reading this thread..
I have an assumption that bradguth is a venusian.

[blackholesun]

I'll not agree with your "who cares?", as obviously NASA/NSA/DoD(DHS) couldn't honestly care less about anything of Earthly humanitarian values unless there's oil, or some other energy resource involved or another cold-war hidden agenda that needs doing, though I'll agree with your "Jupiter and Saturn output much much more energy themselves then Venus could ever hope of doing", as being quite true in terms of them laws of physics, even if Venus offers a hundred fold more easily accessible and perhaps a thousand fold more natural/green energy potential than Earth.

First off, I don't see how energy capture could be "green". The planet is an environmental disaster. You couldn't do anything to hurt the planet even more. Natural energy? yes; but oil is natural too...and so is natural gas.

Although, as for getting any expedition off to the likes of either Jupiter or Saturn is at least ten fold more time consuming for Jupiter and another ten fold on top of that for the likes of Saturn, not to mention the 100+ fold greater price tag to bootand still absolutely no affordable way of launching sufficient mass (at least not without gassing Earth with thousands of tonnes of additional CO2) as to keeping either crew from being TBI to death, or otherwise impacted beyond recovery, but other than all of that, their horrifically spendy one-way missions should go along as planned.

How is that any different from launching to Venus? You still need a powerful rocket, you still get a dosage of solar radiation and cosmic rays (which according to you kills any astronaut anyway), you'd still be pelted with material (this would happen anywhere but according to you this would happen catastrophically going away from the sun and not toward it?) And where would it get you? You'd still be on an inhospitable planet (or I guess floating in its atmosphere) trying to survive.

Persol is right. Why not listen to a little criticism guthie? You don't answer questions with knowledge you answer them with insults. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

[craterchains (Norval]

And then there are those that you can try to explain something to them, and yet they will never be able to see, or understand. :confused:

There is a reason for that. :cool:

:m:

[blackholesun]

Brad can't explain anything without insults and just plain wrong statements. But then again...you can't, Can you Norval.

[bradguth]

blackholesun;
"The planet is an environmental disaster"

NO FREAKING KIDDING; I couldn't agree with you any more, even if I said it myself, which I do believe I've done just that a few hundred or so times.

Besides my observations of what looks like fairly recent erosion patterns, and even that possible "fluid arch" attribute that I've pointed out for nearly the past four years and counting, though apparently only that I can see, I'm also going by the analysis of a few others that seem to believe that Venus wasn't always so darn hot and nasty. Although, if Earth had the sorts of easily available energy to being taken on demand, as from a 4+bar/km atmospheric differential of mostly dense CO2, along with what little we already know about CO2-->CO/O2 being possible, that plus the rather terrific buoyancy aspects would certainly offer us a darn good run for our money, that is if anyone gave a tinkers damn about surviving the greenhouse onset, of which in a century or so we might actually have that opportunity.

I too believe there's a perfectly good chance of sufficiently deep underground gas and oil deposits, that is unless some warlord fool hadn't already utilized every last m3 and kg worth of such, thus inflicting another insult to injury upon an already bad situation that's going to hell in that proverbial hand-basket (sound like anyone we know?).

"How is that any different from launching to Venus?"
Firstly, instead of going for the likes of Jupiter or Saturn, you'd need far less of a interplanetary craft, that plus lesser of a powerful rocket as for going towards the sun beats anything leaving town as in the opposit direction, although stopping or slowing down for the reentry is a wee bit nasty, still considerably less energy intensive than for anything Jupiter/Saturn, though perhaps even nastier yet if that were having to park any sizable craft at Venus-L2, thus I've only seriously suggested (other than in jest) that a TRACE-II be deployed to Venus-L2, plus a robotic interactive communications kiosk or two as deployed to the nighttime surface. A robotic rigid airship with all the SAR and CCD (night-vision) imaging would offer another nice addition, though not essential.

"Brad can't explain anything without insults and just plain wrong statements."

I believe I've answered at least two for one of the questions I've imposed upon the "all-knowing" wizard sorts such as yourself, so don't keep making me out as the "bad guy", as the "messenger from hell" well do just fine and dandy. And since I've been locked out of the "NASA uses LLPOF anti-flak to protect Apollo butts" (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38195) topic, I've answered upon a good number of other questions as having been updated into my http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm and http://guthvenus.tripod.com/earth-venus.htm

BTW; here's another one of those wrong statements. blackholesun is a nice guy.

or perhaps how about this following wrong statement;

Sciforums is not another official dog-wagging spin and damage-control portion of the mainstream status quo.
-

I'm afraid, if there were anymore DNA signs of intellectual incest borg cloning, that would have to be of "uplink.space.com".

[bradguth]

Avatar;
"I have an assumption that bradguth is a venusian." As such, I've got the following to offer.

Venus for dummies: (just a few basics that shouldn't be over the heads of a grade school education), and that's not intended as an insult, just another observational fact of life as we seem to know it.

i) it's humanly hot and nasty (very greenhouse), as in duh-101

1a) though it's NOT nearly too hot and nasty as for applied physics-101

1b) the nasty part about the 92+bar pressure aspect is even quite humanly survivable

1c) there is NO fee acid about the surface of Venus, only harmless sulfur-like crystals

2) the surface is offering whomever at least 50°K cooler by nighttime than by day

2a) an elevated surface (say 5+km) is at least 100°K cooler by night than by day

3) Venus clouds and haze(5.5e20 kg) contain 25%/kg H2O, to as much as 33%/kg H2O by night

3a) it is entirely possible to extract said H2O (25% of 5.5e20 kg H2SO4) via vacuum distillation

3b) collected H2O can then be converted into 100% H2O2, thus more valuable and stored upon Venus

4) Artificial production of energy can be accommodated by way of the 4+bar/km differential

4a) with said energy (GW if need be) all sorts of insurmountable things become entirely surmountable

5) the sheer buoyancy of 65+kg/m3 represents that rigid airships would function quite nicely

5a) there's something of an unusual airship-like mass that's associated with the existing tarmac

5b) oops, there I've suggested that a highly mountainous terrain offers a rather noticeably flat tarmac like infrastructure

6) active lava and/or mud-flows currently exist, thereby additional energy and geological resources do in fact exist

6a) with said resources via geological activity, and of new elements being exposed, other artificial processes could be accommodated

6b) with said raw elements and nearly unlimited energy at your disposal, the likes of CO2-->CO/O2 is simply yet another done deal

BTW; why would someone trapped into surviving the onset of a truly nasty amount of greenhouse, having nearly unlimited resources of energy at their disposal, and a terrific amount of available buoyancy throughout a crystal clear atmospheric ocean give up upon life, as simply because their planet is situated nextdoor to the most absolute dumb and dumber other most pathetic planet in the universe doesn't make any sense?

Unlike Mars, at least whatever life (intelligent or not) that's situated on or about Venus has the terrific shield benefit of the atmospheric density that'll fend off most all meteorites, and otherwise protect them from cosmic radiation, and even protection them from the bulk of potentially lethal solar radiation, especially by way of a 2900+hr season of nighttime. So, you're not being pulverised, nor TBI to death, or even roasted because of such terrific pressure and/or because of your exoskeletal physiology, or that of utilizing the R-1024/m of insulation easily created from basalt composites, and by way of having and/or extracting more available green-energy than you can possibly shake a flaming stick at, whereas at least intelligent life of even a heathen like status could have managed. Transporting yourself about as to remaining within the season of nighttime is rigid-airship physics-101, thus that's another done deal.

Obviously, for most folks upon Earth, those Magellan images are of insufficient resolution, but then so were all of the vast greater numbers of NSA/DoD images of Iraq, but we went there anyway, and subsequently spending ten fold of what it would have taken as to have visited Venus, and wasted just as much time.

Most folks fail to realize the truth potential of what an SAR imaged pixel represents, especially one of a 43° perspective at that, compared to something of conventional CCD that merely records reflected photons and dependent upon optics that can distort all sorts of size and even shape relationships, if not entirely invert the perspective of what's being interpreted. In fact, conventional CCD images can NOT be interpreted as for the substance of what's recorded, whereas radar images are intrusive about telling us what a substance is most likely to be.

A replacement Magellan mission, instead of delivering 75 meter/pixel, could provide at least 10 meter or better resolution at 16 bits/pixel. A TRACE-II placed at Venus L2 (+/- whatever offset) could implement the usual solar monitoring while affording a microwave/laser transponder utility that would enable a nearly continuous live data link, and while out of Earth's range could (4~6 months worth) efficiently store a few thousand terabytes worth of communications and/or images until Venus re-emerges itself from the backside of the sun. The new and improve TRACE-II camera and optics could enable at least another ten fold magnification and thereby greatly improved resolution of solar events, and from entirely new perspectives which can NOT be obtained by the current TRACE instrument (that alone is worth the V-L2 placement of the existing TRACE instrument which is past due for being taken off-line), plus being better than 25% closer to the sun would only further enhance upon said images.

Doing Venus isn't a factor of lacking technology, nor of cost, nor of time, as we've blown a hundred fold more so upon other far less moral adventures that have thus far yielded squat nothing on behalf of humanity (the humanity I'm speaking of as being that other 99.9% scum of the Earth), except for perhaps diverting talents and resources away from life-essential tasks upon Earth, and/or on behalf of our prematurely terminating a few too many of said humanity. Thus the technological as well as moral arguments against Venus are entirely bogus, as well as intellectually biased if not outright bigoted against the facts.

ESA is about to wipe our butts (big time) over this Venus opportunity, while all of our spin and damage-control freaks (part of the 0.1% collective of Earth) seems to be focused upon is protecting their mainstream status quo, in spite of the truth and nothing but the truth or consequences seems the tallest "Skull and Bones" order of their every day. I say, so what if we've snookered the world about our landing on the moon, as in the infamous words of our commander and chief village idiot moron warlord, "so what's the difference". It's past due that we advance to the next level(s), whereas how we got to this point isn't all that important, especially if there's an easily obtainable bounty that's just sitting there upon Venus, whereas the only thing that's more important than Venus is for our establishing the LSE-CM/ISS before the likes of ESA or China accomplishes it first.

PS; I'm not actually all that smart, just not nearly as dumbfounded as you think.

Regards, Brad Guth / GASA~IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

It's true that, I can't seem to help but to offer my version of why our NASA has been so deeply stuck within their own space toilet, to a point of apparent no-return, that which is directly linked to our cloak and dagger cold-war past, present and future. Thus politics has nearly always been the door-locking key to the what-if future of honset science as based upon the known laws of physics. Thus, if only we could have accomplished what's doable and long past due with respect to our moon, and of whatever Venus has to offer, as such all sorts of perfectly nifty things would have come to past, and at not 10% the cost.

Like the following link, which achieved an outcome of the very same borgs basing upon the "Crater Research" topic, as offered in good faith by; craterchains (Norval http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=36047, whereas it needs to be pointed out for what those borgs are all about, and of what their true motive and intent was from the very get-go.

As such, I've given this perfectly decent tpoic of "crater research" as a viable topic another short lease on life, though I'll expect the very same incest collective of the Scifourms army of dog-wagging, spin and damage-control freaks will soon be all over this following topic;

Ulterior motives of "Pseudoscience" against "craterchains"
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38973

This following suggestion is a perfectly good example of an accepted argument.

Stryderunknown;
"Light though is potentially not the best way to communicate since after there are so many planets and creatures on our own planet that can't even see."

My reply might be that firstly, I never insisted that communication by way of using light was the best possible way for us to communicate, much less the one and only alternative. However, I'd re-suggest that using light(photons) has been by far the most universal form, and by far offering the most energy efficient method, and as such requires the least of all applied science/technology as to implement.

Using photons over great distances is actually quite efficient, especially if we're into sub-milliradian beams, whereas again another sufficiently intelligent individual having absolutely no science nor applied technology of electronics could receive such a message and, lo and behold could even send off a reply, whereas a highly sophisticated soul (such as yourself) might also introduce a few terabytes worth of quantum code within or upon that same CW beam of photons.

Obviously with a great deal of energy, loads of infrastructure, and of sophisticated electronics of RF communications established at either end, as such communications over millions of miles is possible, but only if both parties know of the exact frequency, as well as timing, and are utilizing the same methods of demodulation or extracting the code from whatever specific carrier frequency.

Although, what if ET is still of heathen status, as then what?

Or, what if ET is only using photons of terabytes/s for their communications, as then what?

[bradguth]

This is another perfectly good argument that deserves my input.

Stryderunknown;
"A simple test of Alien life in reference to life upon our planet is this;
We are creatures that need daylight to see, so during night we turn lights on. On the darkside of planets and moons in our solar system do you see the lights of alien cities?"

"If you can't see light and suggest perhaps they use fire (like torches, Candles, laterns) then the likelihood of space travel is remote, in fact even communication with light (Lasers) would be too remote for them."
-

Here you're assuming that a nocturnal adapted/evolved individual having perhaps as much as 170,000 lumen/watt sensitivity to 407 nm, as opposed to our human 1,700 lumen/watt at 507 nm is offering a fair and balanced comparison, and that in spite of such an enormous differential, that I must somehow prove that for an alien city to exist, that as such it must firstly be artificially illuminated to our inefficient standards, even though that green-glow of illuminating O2 that was recorded by KECK-II, as nicely lighting up their nighttime clouded environment would seem more than sufficient by itself, not to mention the near-UV and even a little UV/a from star light getting through, and especially of earthshine photons that could easily penetrate by as much as a 25% factor of opacity through thinner portions of them cool nighttime clouds, as such natural sources of photons would offer way more than sufficient surface illumination.

Besides, if it's supposedly so damn hot and nasty, whom in their right mind would intentionally turn on additional heat producing lights?

I've actually suggested upon something like efficient diamond LEDs, although ionize gas is certainly doable, and at perhaps as much as one watt per individual would be nearly blinding to any decent nocturnal, as another notion on behalf of Venus folks utilizing some rather minimal bio-illuminance (delivering 10 cd/m2) seems entirely rational.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds/w4_specs.htm This link locates upon a white LED that offers 10 cd @15 degree divergence, while consuming 68 mw. I believe that's 0.147 cd/mw, or 147 CD/W.

At least in my limited way, I'm merely suggesting that other possibilities might have existed, of those which instruments and obviously the sorts of formally bigoted intellectual premise against ETs, at least as of to date, have not been deployed as for detecting squat. ESA's Venus Express may offer us another chance at doing just that, detecting signs of past and hopefully present day life.

Others can certainly provide their notions of "what if" and/or of better alternatives to other than humans surviving upon Venus without getting all huffy over nothing. I'd also take into consideration of what the known laws of physics and applied technology might hae to offer humanity a go of it in spite of Venus being so hot and nasty.

BTW; speaking of folks NOT seeing other lights; how many hundreds of millions if not billions have already been blown upon Mars over the past three decades alone? And of how many additional hundreds of billions if not a trillion plus dollars are slated for Mars? And, where's the moral scientific justification for that sort of continuing fiasco???

[bradguth]

Even though it has been considered likely that Venus wasn't always so darn hot and nasty, perhaps once upon a time offering a modestly pressurized 300°K tropical environment at 10 bar, or less worth of atmospheric surround, and otherwise lots of terrain elevation differentials similar though greater than Earth, it's still a humanly nasty situation at best. Thus other forms of life could have emerged naturally and evolved. However, rather than purely evolution being the case (in need of a multi-million year window of opportunity), others may have terraformed Venus, or even just made do as is, as in much the same manner as could have been the case for Mars. Whereas Earth may have offered a rather piss-poor make-do go-between, as offering loads more atmosphere than Mars as for fending off cosmic and solar TBI dosage, but otherwise too geologically unstable and simply too darn cold and wet as for any decent land-loving nocturnal lizard folk, as well as the Earth atmosphere being nearly useless in terms of buoyancy, and highly corrosive at that (way too much free O2), not to mention entirely insufficient for deflecting those murderous meteors being sent and/or directed from the likes of Sirius.

Why change a darn thing about Venus?

Especially if your physiology was superior to mere humans, and you weren't otherwise dumb as a post.

If you were to be acquiring loads of CO/O2, as could be easily extracted from that toasty/preheated CO2 environment and, were surrounded by all that nifty cloud tonnage of H2O (25% of 5.5e20 kg) that's providing your primary shield density as per solar flare and whatever other nasty influx, and if vertical venturi windpower (based upon the 4+bar/km) were applied wherever necessary, and as such you easily distilled/extracted whatever amounts of H2O from those cool nighttime clouds whenever you required such, why would decent lizard folk want to go about changing a damn thing, or of allowing others to change anything?

Venus may not be our Garden of Eden, though we're not nocturnal lizards nor even exoskeletal in nature, and clearly most of us are in fact dumb as a post.

Venus is simply not suited for Earth humans, of course neither is Mars, or just about any other planet.

It seems that others have proven that a good many humans are not anywhere smart enough as to survive upon Earth, by example our having to phony-up those Apollo moon pictures because we can't even be honest to ourselves about that issue, much less about 9/11 and those WMD. At least my critics seem to know for a bloody fact that I'm not smart enough, which could represent that perhaps you could be equally if not much worse off as for being ill suited for the likes of Venus, especially since neither of us can hold our breath for more than a couple of minutes, as then what?

BTW; CO/O2 creates a rather nifty 4712°K worth of combustion, thus perhaps a ceramic IC/IRRCE or rocket/turbine engine could literally run itself upon whatever is surrounding itself, and surely the available buoyancy could certainly carry aloft the necessary technology for the CO2-->CO/O2 process.

A rigid airship upon Venus is good for 65+kg/m3. Doing the math and we're talking about hauling aloft thousands of tonnes if need be.

Because of the rather significant day/night seasonal differentials, and all sorts of elevation factors, that together can represent what a 5 km elevation offers is a 100°K offset from their toastier season of daytime, as such doing the math is somewhat easier said than accomplished, although prepared graphs and charts would make this quite clear as to the parameters of what's possible. The displacement gas could be N2 or H2 or even H2/N2 mix, or perhaps just that of pulling a vacuum within the shell or hull of this massive airship, being that it's constructed of a meter or so thickness of a basalt composite that might in itself weigh less than 75 kg/m3, thus we're looking at a horrifically robust composite and of an all inclusive structural substance that's of one meter thick but representing a structural form that's merely 10 kg/m2.

BTW No.2; a basalt composite as configured primarily for insulation, as a rather modus structural product, should in itself weigh less than 50 kg/m3, and by my estimation is worth R-1024/m, and how's that for keeping your cool?

A silica/basalt composite is at least 10 fold tougher/kg than alloy steel, especially at such elevated temperatures, with almost no structural integrity degrade or other losses until exceeding 1000°K, and with some ingenuity, can be pushed into surviving an environment above 1500°K. Thus, in that respect, so what if it's hot and nasty?

[(Q)]

clearly most of us are in fact dumb as a post.

Well, I never met a post that tried to convince me of civilizations on Venus.

[bradguth]

Here is something that needs to be considered too. We all know, that Venus is about the same size as Earth. But somewhere I read that a billion years ago, the sun was much cooler and hence, the life zone could be around Venus to have life. If the zone moves outward to the solar system, towards sun going nova (it gets hotter as time passes) - then there is a possibility of life that was on Venus.

Something to munch on!

kmguru,
I concur with your understanding of Earth and Venus, having perhaps windows of life zones, within which timelines of allowing evolution and/or of terraforming to have transpired, as obviously that's within reasonable limits, of which the likes of Mars certainly fell a little short of a few options for sustaining life as we know it, although that doesn't exclude nasty microbes cable of being sub-frozen and otherwise TBI to near death (thus fully capable of destroying life on Earth as we know it), unless they all managed to get themselves used to living underground.

Fortunately, for the likes of Venus, there's already easily accessible geological resources up the kazoo, and simply loads of energy to spare, and with said energy one can conclude that supposedly insurmountable issues become surmounted, with energy to spare.

Unlike the intellectual incest borgs of this scifourms theater, as usually demonstrated quite nicely by the likes of "Persol", you and I can see that possibilities do exist, not to mention the image which clearly indicated something other than diatoms once lived upon Venus.

BTW; I've never insisted of what's to be seen is still alive and kicking, as it could be the remains of what once used to be. Although, if there were never a shortage of energy, and you weren't as pathetically dumb and dumber as are most humans, as such there's a perfectly good chance of folks surviving, though obviously not under the best of conditions but, when all you've got is the likes of Earth for a neighbor, what other options do you have?

Stryderunknown;
If you'd like to reduce this topic to a somewhat lesser wall of words, please remove nearly all of "Persol" from the context, as that way we wont be continually insulted by his arrogance and utter stupidity, and obvious bigotry against anything that's positive on behalf of ET. If need be, I could select those worthless replies of his, as then once removed I'd clean up all of my references (favor returning) as to his unfortunate DNA.

[(Q)]

please remove nearly all of "Persol" from the context, as that way we wont be continually insulted by his arrogance and utter stupidity, and obvious bigotry against anything that's positive on behalf of ET.

Whoa! Stryder would have to delete everything you've said thus far if 'utter stupidity' was a requirement for removal.

You wouldn't want that, would you?

[Stryder]

Brad,
As I have mentioned in the rules there is an ignore function in the forum, it's found with the buddy list in your preferences. You can use it to ignore anyone that you feel offended by and doing so means although they can read and post in response to you, you don't see what they have posted. It's the way I suggest people use to deal with who ever they see a problem, as leaving their posts intact allows forewarning to would be posters as what to expect. Deleting posts from individuals would mean new posters wouldn't know what to expect and would be unfair on them.

[bradguth]

Ignoring isn't the same thing as cleaning up the trash, whereas as long as fools like Persol, blackholesun & (Q) can essentially run amuck, and they do in fact say whatever they damn well please, without fear of being expelled by you, then I'll keep returning the favor, and with as much love as I can muster.

There's obviously nothing stopping them, and I certainly wouldn't object, to their posting typically anti-whatever topics opposing whatever I'm delivering upon. If their notions are receiving the loin's share of replies, then obviously their anti-topics will in fact remain on top of whatever I'm posting, and even that's OK by me.

Obviously, you highly approve of their actions, if not assist by way of being their cloak on behalf of their intellectual daggers. In which case, don't be all that surprised if I share a love note or two on your behalf as well.

[Stryder]

Brad I don't approve of how some people handle themselves on here, and sometimes I make it known to them. Of course you won't have see those comments because I shouldn't need to publicly make it obvious who I'm asking to "calm it" from time to time.

If you retalliate to what you think is an attack, your just giving cause for some of those people that you feel transpire against you reason to continue if they are motivated by you "rising from it".

The reason I do not stop some of their commentary is simple, if all there comments were removed, I would also have to remove most of the posts by people like yourself to as what overall discussion would become absolutely meaningless and no longer logical.

It's funny how you point out how you feel the rules are being violated but you've posted the same post content to multiple threads previously which defies the rules itself. If you want to place information from one thread into another, just use a URL link, you don't need to repost the entire content.

[Edit]
I'm going to add this here rather than pollute multiple other threads in dealing with you Brad.

Firstly, everytime you mention Borg, you remove anyone's method of dealing with you on a professional level because your defining peoples activities to be related to Star-Trek, This in turn suggests that perhaps your theories also come from that backgrounding. If you want people to take you seriously, (Which they won't currently) then drop the Borg nonsense.

You should also take note that your current enthatuation with Venus and Sirius will seem absurd to the majority. For instance "Reptillian people" have been talked about and written about by David Icke for years, and in all this time he still hasn't offered up solid evidence. If anything it's more likely it all started with him mouthing off at some BBC special effects guys about them being behind the scenes and not being "Media Celeb's" like himself, so they might of done a preview viewing of "V for Victory" to take him down a peg or two. (You should perhaps check that series out)

I also insist that you play close attention to how a well defined theory can exist and a poorly defined one, Currently your theorums are a house of cards where when someone proves one thing to be untrue, your whole theory collapses. If you want your theories to be proven then your going to have to do more homework but not necessarily in the areas you've currently been looking. It's all very well knowing how high and at what angle a scan has been done to the surface of a planet, but your looking for things that if existed would be renoundly known about.

As I have mentioned elsewhere Astronomers and Navigators have looked to the Stars and the Planets for Centuries, for them all to overlook the obvious would be impossible and suggesting they have is insulting their intelligence.

I know you will probably find my points harsh and perhaps even feel they are aggressive, however they are not intended that way, the intension is to ask you to understand that your current logic is flawed and you should re-evalute what you prepose, otherwise as mentioned before no one will take you seriously.

[Persol]

LMAO. What a dumbass. YOu never did get around to answering any of the technical questions posted on the allged Apollo coverup, or this. On top of that you've shown no connection in your logic AT ALL. I don't fear being expelled by Stryder because quite simply you are a kook. If posts like your remain, yet the one pointing out flaws and lies are deleted... this isn't much of a science forum.

If you perhaps backup your ideas, we wouldn't need to point the errors out for you.

[bradguth]

Even though this topic "Venus Offers Whatever It Takes For UFOs" was an honest and fully aboveboard alternative to what the mainstream has to offer, whereas usual the insiders of this scifourms have been intent upon their doing all it can to distract and/or destroy the primary function. Such as having to continually reply to this following context of absolute nonsense. As such, I may have to terminate the thread altogether, starting off with a new and improved topic that's more focused.

Stryderunknown,
Thanks for your feedback, of which I'll reflect upon as I stipulated before.

"The reason I do not stop some of their commentary is simple, if all there comments were removed, I would also have to remove most of the posts by people like yourself to as what overall discussion would become absolutely meaningless and no longer logical."

Again and again. I'm not asking that they be stopped or entirely removed. As you might say, there'd be no comparison between the good, the bad and the ugly. Though as the "all knowing" moderator, you can simply escort their unjustified negativity over to the "anti-whatever" topic that is directly opposing what I'm trying to deliver and subsequently obtain valuable feedback from honest folks, instead of having to fend off their warm and fuzzy anti-everything flak. Above all others, you should clearly realize this has always been exactly what I've been driving at all along. So, why are you defending those dogs?

"Firstly, every time you mention Borg, you remove anyone's method of dealing with you on a professional level because your defining peoples activities to be related to Star-Trek, This in turn suggests that perhaps your theories also come from that backgrounding. If you want people to take you seriously, (Which they won't currently) then drop the Borg nonsense."

An intellectual borg (incest or otherwise) is exactly what a programmed human is, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with your "Star-Trek" fetish. So far, I've seen little of that "professional level" you speak of (don't you bother to read what Persol and others in his classification are saying?). If folks can't get past the "borg" thing, then they simply do not respect the notions of what I've discovered, and they obviously do not respect humanity as a whole, as only their 0.1% of humanity seems to deserve any benefits whatsoever from astronomy/astrophysics and of the surrounding sciences.

In case you haven't noticed, which obviously you have not. I haven't had to include the borg analogy upon other folks that are clearly not part of your intellectual collective of sciforums insider members. Only your cult members seem to deserve the associations, that I've only been forced to make, and why do we suppose that is?

Other folks have freely utilized the terminology of such anti-everything individuals acting as though they are robots, which obviously isn't possible and thereby an untruth. At least I don't think it possible, yet you seem to offer absolutely little or nothing against that sort of analogy. So instead, perhaps I should refer to such folks that have absolutely nothing to contribute, no intentions of ever contributing squat, and clearly show their ulterior motives for dog-wagging anything and everything to death if it might upset their precious space-time-continuum, as perhaps instead of their borg like domineer, as for their being robots, saints or perhaps even wizards would be an acceptable alternative.

Persol "LMAO. What a dumbass." and "If you perhaps backup your ideas, we wouldn't need to point the errors out for you.",
Answers to most all of your Apollo questions:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-04.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

That's rather odd, as these above links seem to function just fine and dandy outside of this forum, thus you'll have to select and paste those page addresses and perhaps others I've posted as direcrtly into the browser.

Unfortunately, there's a few too many other pages that can be pointed out, though I might even create another summarized composite just on your behalf, something a bit more focused and having those references you speak of, is a perfectly good notion that might actually be worth another shot in the dark.

[bradguth]

There's Life on Venus (by; Brad Guth / GASA~IEIS)

Stryderunknown;
"As I have mentioned elsewhere Astronomers and Navigators have looked to the Stars and the Planets for Centuries, for them all to overlook the obvious would be impossible and suggesting they have is insulting their intelligence."

That's exactly my point of why there's been such opposition. Though "suggesting" is not the correct word, as how about my telling them (nicely at first) that this has been an overlooked discovery, which is in fact what transpired as of four years ago. Of course, I gave the almighty and all-knowing NASA the first 6 months worth of a shot at this, whereas of course and as usual, they did absolutely nothing except scoff and deny the truth ever existed. So what's new about that? Absolutely NOTHING is new about government covering their butts, as their tallest order of each and every day.

-

Hay folks and snookered fools (that's including myself up until four years ago);
In spite of NASA, and even in spite of their willing dog-wagging helpers within this sciforums theater or zoo, there's actually been other life on Venus, and unless GW Bush had anything to do about it, chances are that they're still there, perhaps laughing their reptilian butts off, as to how absolutely and pathetically stupid, and arrogant, and just dumb and dumber the folks of Earth are. It's obviously their best show in town, watching us blow off our own two left feet, time after time and again, while turning our own world into another greenhouse just like Venus.

Never mind that I've informed our warm and fuzzy NASA as of four years ago, and bothered to inform hundreds of other supposedly nice folks associated with the likes of the Magellan mission which oddly originated the image that has become so interesting, to say the least.

Paste this directly if it doesn't function as a viable link: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

As Bart Simpson might have to say;
What part of "eat my shorts" do you folks not understand?

Compared to doing Mars, at a mere fraction of the travel distance is where Venus isn't 10% the cost, especially when it's merely 105 times the distance as our moon, and otherwise not 1% the overall cost impact of an actual manned expedition, technologically simple and efficient as to land upon, of which anything manned would at least stand a chance in hell of returning home, without being pulverised nor TBI to death while on the surface (preferable as for accomplishing this task within their season of nighttime). Although being eaten by whomever is still alive and kicking is a real possibility, thus a certain risk factor remains (sort of the ultimate true test of having "the right stuff").

Trust me on this one, no such diatoms or other microbes had need of constructing any stinking bridge, nor a township hosting it's own tarmac as situated in a highly mountainous terratory of active geological surroundings. So, we're obviously not suggesting upon little green folks, unless those are the reptillian kids that'll grow up to being perhaps Godzila class individuals. However, there has been in the past indications of greenish humans existing upon Earth, and perhaps even the likes of a few smart-ass Cathars that sort of dropped in out of nowhere, only to piss off a certain Pope to no end.

Technologically, the hot and nasty environment is not the sort of firewall of impossibilities, at least not anymore. As for the interplanetary communication possibilities are those well within a local area code, especially if we established the TRACE-II instrument at Venus L2 (+/- offset by whatever team TRACE decided was in the best interest of solar science).

Since there's so much other that's involved, as such I've been all over the freaking place trying to learn things in spite of their usual "need to know" basis of my having to extract bits of knowledge in spite of the best wishes of their mainstream status quo agenda, whereas often this method has required a good deal of pushing those "do not push" buttons.

And there's certainly lots more "button pushing" that's available on the UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

[bradguth]

Even though this original thread/topic of "Venus Offers Whatever It Takes For UFOs" was entered under the category of SciFi, with the honest intentions of my not offending anyone by way of suggesting certain things about NASA's skewed science with regard to the likes of our moon, and of Venus that were outside of someone's mainstream box, and whereas initially this topic seemed to be attracting the sorts of valid give and take by the likes of "craterchains (Norval", "coolmacguy", "FieryIce", "kmguru", "zion" and even at first "blackholesun" offered that which I'd expect, at least up until the point where "blackholesun" offered his assessment of certain folks being your "typical nutbag", as clearly directed at the likes of "craterchains (Norval" and seemingly myself, as that's when it was clearly heading towards the nearest space toilet. Although, nothing was entirely lost until the warm and fuzzy likes of "Persol" crawled out of his intellectual borg cesspool, with his "Until then... fuck em all. Kooks." statement, of which his godfather/moderator "Stryderunknown" objected NOT in the least bit. In fact, from the looks of may other topics being bashed and summarily trashed by the likes of "Persol and blackholesun", the forum moderator seemed to be egging his robotic (borg like) collective of dog-wagging spin and damage-control freaks onward, while otherwise saying all the right sorts of things as for justifying why his forum could remain as such a one-way street to hell, as in take it or leave it.

This time around, I hope to enlist upon the mostly positive attributes of what's possible, rather than having to waste the time and talents of good and honest folks by way of our having to defend ourselves from the sorts of intellectual WMD associated with the likes of "Persol and blackholesun", and apparently Lord "(Q)" isn't about to let this one drop without receiving another swift kick from his boot.

The replacement topic will become "Venus, Sirius/c UFO outpost"

Whereas the opposition forces might care to post their thread of "Anti-Venus, Anti-Sirius UFO outpost"

Once this has been accomplished, I'd just as soon eliminate this original "Venus Offers Whatever It Takes For UFOs" thread, thus newcomers will not have to be insulted by the counterproductive nature associated with the likes of "Persol and blackholesun", and the otherwise intellectually biased/bigoted lack of appropriate actions taken by the all-knowing moderator, as for NOT keeping a reasonable lid on what's intentionally outside of the intent and focus of the original topic (notice that I specified "reasonable lid").

Somewhat as of lately, the moderation game has become a bit more acceptable, though still not taking kindly to honest suggestions of allowing a fair and honest delivery with the intent of receiving those fair and honest replies without the intervention of ulterior motives tearing everything apart. Because, if you folks insist upon receiving more than may fair share deliverance, of my having to be negative unto others, especially of those supporting the NASA/Apollo ruse, by way of my pouncing in upon other topic threads for the sheer spite of it all, as then lo and behold, I believe I can hold my own up against the likes of "Persol, blackholesun and (Q)".

[(Q)]

The replacement topic will become "Venus, Sirius/c UFO outpost"

Same old, same old. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Blah blah blah.

I believe I can hold my own up against the likes of "Persol and blackholesun".

You haven't done so as yet, nor is it likely you ever will.

[bradguth]

Once again; there's absolutely nothing but the typical gibberish where there should have been viable context of at least something on behalf of Venus, but then I'm obviously not sufficiently bigoted against other life outside of Earth, although our Mr.(Q) seems to even include a profound level of bigotry against a good number of folks right here on Earth, as apparently 99.9% of humanity being worth little more than the scum of the Earth, as otherwise any half brained moron should have come up with at least a few notions on behalf of other life that wasn't nearly as dumbfounded as your typical human that still believes those NASA/Apollo Kodak moments actually took place on the moon.

I'm not the one suggesting anything as to naked life upon Venus, nor am I suggesting that we humans should ever go there, at least not without a darn good invite. Yet seemingly in spite of whatever applied physics has to offer, and in spite of what any half brained lizard folk might have accomplished as for surviving nextdoor to the most absolute dumb and dumber, as in most dumbfounded other planet in the entire universe (proof being is that the likes of "(Q)" lives on Earth), that in spite of such a significant disadvantage they managed at least long enough as to construct that rather significant bridge and a fairly robust community in the mountains. And, since Venus folks aren't nearly as pathetically snookered as are most humans, as such I happen believe they would have applied the laws of physics as for creating and operating them rigid airships.

Oops I forgot, that according to the likes of "(Q)", those laws of physics (I'll suppose evolution to boot) only function as here upon Earth, and of any applied and/or implied intelligence factor is obviously something of which only the intellectual space toilet of "(Q)" contains.

How's that for sharing a little more blah blah blah?

[(Q)]

How's that for sharing a little more blah blah blah?

The status quo has not been compromised.

[Blindman]

i)it's humanly hot and nasty (very greenhouse), as in duh-101

Duh....

1a) though it's NOT nearly too hot and nasty as for applied physics-101

Duh physics-101 has no nasty limit... Duh Ohh apart from black holes.

1b) the nasty part about the 92+bar pressure aspect is even quite humanly survivable

Duh talk to my deep sea diving friend. Oh just don't drink alcohol.

1c) there is NO fee acid about the surface of Venus, only harmless sulfur-like crystals

I don't pay for acid but its a sure bet that there is free acid on Venus surface, there is most likely many high pressure aquifers under the surface that would occasionally spill forth a torrent of acid..

2)the surface is offering whomever at least 50°K cooler by nighttime than by day
Duhh... Double Duhhh...

2a) an elevated surface (say 5+km) is at least 100°K cooler by night than by day
Pulling lemons from the dark orifice.

3)Venus clouds and haze(5.5e20 kg) contain 25%/kg H2O, to as much as 33%/kg H2O by night
What water likes the dark.. There is as much H2O at night as during the day.. DUHH.. Maybe you should understand what the dew point is.

3a) it is entirely possible to extract said H2O (25% of 5.5e20 kg H2SO4) via vacuum distillation
Interesting a totally new method of chemistry. You must have score well in your chemistry classes.. H20 is can not be extracted from H2SO4 with out a chemical process, but H20 is soluble in H2SO4 so it is possible to extract H2O from H2SO4 if the H2O is already present.

3b) collected H2O can then be converted into 100% H2O2, thus more valuable and stored upon Venus
What do they do with all that H??? Duhh I think you should learn to count.

4)Artificial production of energy can be accommodated by way of the 4+bar/km differential
Ohh no perpetual energy... Please let us know how we could get all our energy from the deep oceans if you would share your knowledge.

4a) with said energy (GW if need be) all sorts of insurmountable things become entirely surmountable
You mean I could become a movie star... Give me the energy...

5)the sheer buoyancy of 65+kg/m3 represents that rigid airships would function quite nicely
What... The sheer buoyancy of you mind should have sent you into the stratosphere ages ago..

5a) there's something of an unusual airship-like mass that's associated with the existing tarmac
What again...Like What.. Please try to make some sense.

5b) oops, there I've suggested that a highly mountainous terrain offers a rather noticeably flat tarmac like infrastructure
What you mean that you have found tar and discovered that its spread out flat, and that it is part of larger structures to provide a unified structure....???????

6)active lava and/or mud-flows currently exist, thereby additional energy and geological resources do in fact exist
Oh tell us something we don't know..

6a) with said resources via geological activity, and of new elements being exposed, other artificial processes could be accommodated
The key word being “could”... DUHH

6b) with said raw elements and nearly unlimited energy at your disposal, the likes of CO2-->CO/O2 is simply yet another done deal
Once again... The math.. Learn to count... Where is the extra oxygen coming form or where is the excess C going???

[Stryder]

Brad, I'm locking this thread down purely because it will just breakdown if left unchecked into personal comments and provide clues that certain people haven't done their homework. I would suggest that if your going to continue posting in this forum which you might have decided not to, to lower your posts to a Simplified Axiom of thought rather than a complete string. This way Axiom by Axiom you can peer review your understanding of where each thought you have actually fits with the consensus and whether you actually have anything worthwhile to contribute.