electromagnetically impressed visual signatures

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Pro. Max Arturo, Aug 3, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pro. Max Arturo Good God, I'm not Howard! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    44
    Yes indeed, kind sir!

    Seldom have I ever had so little difficulty in conveying my thoughts to others! My friend, you have managed to grasp the precise reasoning of my reservations. Again, well done!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    <b>Where shall I begin?</b>

    <b>
    </b>

    I absolutely agree with this statement that you have made, wet1. Forensic crime professionals universally agree that evidence is quite perishable and quickly lost. The trodding about of anyone, whether at the scene of a crime, or at an archaeological site (2,000,000 years later), will doubtlessly corrupt the laboratory results. It is for this reason that I felt it necessary to post a page from <i>the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, September 1994. </i> I had assumed that I would get little argument from anyone, as the formal opinion of the FBI crime labs cannot be rightfully disputed by anyone who possesses any level of cognitive reasoning skills. This department is a well funded, state of the art organization, with the creme of the crop, so to speak. I seriously doubt that <b><u>any</b></u> other laboratory has the resources or the caliber of people to equal the might and power of the United States government.


    Again, your reasoning is 100% correct. Some of the first reading that I have done about this involved a process that utilized the same reproduction methods of studied viruses. <i>I have long since forgotten the name of the individual who was principally responsible for this breakthrough.</i> However, any contamination would also be magnified along with any presumed evidence. I stress onto this point for good reason and harken back to the FBI forensic warnings of contamination.

    When a forensic team comes upon an obvious crime scene, these people are trained to overlook nothing. Hair, skin flakes, organic oils, semen, saliva, clothing fiber samples, footprints that are invisible to the human eye, anomolous organic gases (detected by advanced gas chromatographs), and in the future: electromagnetically impressed visual signatures, which are imprinted into any surrounding light absorbing surface (walls of a room, for example), much the way that rings are recorded information in a tree, or that sedimentary geological rock is a wonderful record of earth history that has yet to be explored for all of the information that it truly contains, and yet is overlooked by the primal methods employed today. (I am getting a few years down the road).

    <b>Magnification of the desired evidence also magnifies the errors....</b>

    <i>"Small we humans are. We can see the Macro-Earth as being an imperfect sphere, but if the Earth were scaled down to the size of a billard ball, it would appear far more round, with less ridges and bumps than the highest quality billard ball that can be produced today!"</i>

    If you or I were capable of being scaled down to a sub-atomic level, we should find it very easy to build machinery in the atomic scale, while our counterparts of normal scale would have little chance of building nano-machinery while using tools that are more imperfect and clumsy than would be a stone age man's flint tool at producing a delicate Swiss watch of later 20th century technology!</I>..............I feel that I should pause for a moment and once again offer genuine congratulations to you sir. You seem to possess a very well rooted understanding of not only general science, but of specialized scientific understandings as well. I say this because I have never been able to impress fundamental logic upon any of my students.... with such resulting feedback that you have reciprocated toward me. Concise & flawless! I have little doubt now, that you will incure any great level of difficulty in understanding my basic science proposals foward.....

    <i>"As I may look for imperfections on a critically machined part of the space shuttle (rocket science.....) with a laser micrometer, I will be blind to the imperfections seen by my counter-part of the sub-atomic realm." (perfection depends on your point-of-view).........</i> I read these words one evening on this science forum while I was trying to catch up on relevant science news. It was over a year ago (and it has since been deleted for reasons unknown). I have been "hooked" on this website every since.

    The author of this post seems to be somewhat of a ghost (a play upon words that I have learned......to be the signature of this person, unknown). Recently, of days past, I have been hoping that it was you, wet1. Certainly, you possess many of the brilliant faculties of the person who I first read as : <b>"Jehovah."</b> I believe that this person has changed identification handles, several times since........all of the other members who post, are as tasteless as "dry toast."

    About a month ago, I thought that I had found this person posting at Sciforums again. Alas, I now believe that I was mistaken, since I have read the posts of this individual over the past couple of weeks and have come to the conclusion that this person was probably using quotes that (s)he had read by "Jehovah."

    Are you .........the individual, who once posted at sciforums under the name, "Jehovah?"

    If not, do you have any theories as to who this person may be?



    .. I shall continue my critique and do hope for more discussion from you,

    Pro. Max Arturo

    <i>"God's Peace"</i>
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Jehovah?

    No, I'm afraid not. I first found this forum when Porfiry posted in another, shall I say, competing forum. At that time I was really irked at the commercial methods used by that site. Read some other posts made today and I am sure you can come up with the site without problems. It makes no since to change identites as you have to "be someone" and I'm too lazy to try and remember too many passwords. My beginning posts to the internet are there, haphazard as they may be. Or if you wish e-mail me and I will give you the address. Alas, I have not made a year here yet though I look forward to it. The initial membership date is the first time I posted. In fact I posted in one of Porfiry's news posts as I had not discovered how to get to the forums!

    You have alluded to; scope of size which reflects scale of detail. This same presentation is made to give one the sense of how compact gravity can make a neutron stars' surface. In that mountains on a neutron star are only 1/10th of an inch high ( if memory serves me correct) making it more round than anything that we can manufacture if it was shrunk to pool ball size.

    electromagnetically impressed visual signatures
    If you feel like it please go into a little detail here. My curiosity is poking me in the ribs on this one. Is this something simular to what mediums/ghost hunters say allows a house, or wall, or object to pick up psychic impressions. (I am no follower of such but it is the only thing that comes to mind off the bat) Is this signature scientifically verified? Can it be demonstrated? Can it be repeated with the same results? Is this a theory? Or is this specutation?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2001
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Pro. Max Arturo Good God, I'm not Howard! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    44
    Edison phonograph

    Light waves will impress reflected, modulated energy onto (or into) any surrounding matter (walls, trees, ect....) in the same way that air vibrations will impress (or interact) with the varieties of recording mediums.

    <b>First realization</b>
    A human voice will cause air vibrations to interact with other objects (such as the walls inside the room of a homocide scene). The equipment to rebuild (replay) the interaction of sound vibration with the walls (or the ability to replay the frequency interaction on the 3-d scale probably does noty exist yet.

    Running short on time for now.......may have to get back to ya a little later in regards to electromagnetic radiation......


    Light waves interact in the much the same way...... the recording medium being a 3-d surface as opposed to a linear magnetic tape or a laser CD!

    Talk at you later WET>>>>>!1
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Pro. Max Arturo Good God, I'm not Howard! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    44
    Re: Edison phonograph


    Don't know much about recording? No Probleemo, MAX"LL show you how reall quick:

    - <b> Foil as a recording medium.</b> "Mary had a lkittle lamb it's fleece was WHITE as snow and every where that mary went the lamb was sure to go!!!!

    -Simple air vibrations of edisons voice were funneled into an apex needlle that transferred the vibrations of his voice to the foil in a very precise, analogue........... When the foil was rotated afterward with the needle in position, the vibrations (ridges in the foil) were reversed to mechanically amplify the the record.

    If you don't already understand how information is recorded, wet1, then tell me now or I will assume that that you already know. I f not, then I can offer a very basic to extremely advanced understanding of informATION recording.

    <b>primer....magnetic tAPE.</b> Old 8-track tape & cassette tapes were simply cellophane that had iron oxide (rust) embedded onto the surface!!! The amplified voice or noise from the microphone eventually (after several amplification stages & filtration) caused the same effect onto the recording medium of tape. ANALOG!!!! Every dip & rise is caught by the magnetic sensitive tape. It's so simple, yet it takes a lot of words to explain it! This has all been old hat wet......1 I am simply assuming that you need to catch up on a subj4ectt that your genioous has overlooked. The hard part comes a lot later.
     
  8. Pro. Max Arturo Good God, I'm not Howard! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    44
    Let's jump a little ahead in case Max has a heart attack & dies

    Once you understand how that information is recorded.......

    The fact is that light which is reflected of of any object will eventually collide with a surrounding object. If it is inside of a room, then the light waves will interact with the walls.

    Therefore the information will be there. Extracting the information however is the most difficult part! BUT IT CAN BE DONE!!!!

    EXAMPLE: IF A MURDERER GOES INTO THE DOMICILE OF THE VICTIM, and commits the evil: murder.death/kill, then the light (electromagnetic radiation reflected) will ....ok..???.......modulate & interact with the surrounding walls.`

    If a forensic team comes to the scene quickly & seals the site off from all other light sources, then it becomes even more possible that they may be able to rebuild the image of the murderer. (Not only do the walls have ears, but the walls have eyes also!!!)

    The impressions made by the reflected light of the actors in this play are constantly being recorded into their surroundings.

    fft: "If the ultraviolet damage that occurs to the dash of your favorite car is modulated & filtered by your desires, then it is absolute that your cracked dash could be seen as a record (precise) as it's oxidation does record the light of it's surroundings.

    It is likely that the day to day action of light waves act upon objects is cummultive. To differentiate between one day (not to mention one moment) will be quite difficult. BUT IT IS POSSIBLE.


    SCANNING LASER SPECTROGRAPH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    <I>NOTHING CAN BE DESTROYED, IT CAN ONLY BE RE-ARRANGED BY THE PERSON</I>

    If you walk into a room, the reflected light off your body will be recorded into the surrounding walls. The problem is to retrieve the visual information which is constantly being corrupted by the newer images!!!! However with the advances being made, I believe that an image could be retrieved. In many years from now, I believe that that many images & sound (voices) could be retrieved to give a motion picture of sorts!!!! If such is realized, then one might truly know who killed JFK, ect..... The greater advances might allow us to travel into the past, in a way! Or least in a way that we might see ancient history!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2001
  9. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Convince me....I'm having a hard time accepting that light will give enough impact to any surface to allow recordable images to be picked up. Light force upon any object such as a wall will vary according to the distance from the object that gave of the reflection and the strength of the source and even the color or lack thereof of the object that reflected it. I suspect that you are talking sensitivity to your recording instruments that we are not yet capable of producing. Adding "layers of events or happenings" will further confuse the recorded image. You may find it a lot easier to pick up an image of say a lamp that has set upon a desk for the last 20 years without being moved but discerning say the passage of people upon the wall at a hotel lobby desk would be a whole different story.

    As far as viewing the past it would be very selective if it could at all be obtained. I would not think you would be able to "reach back" very far. Almost all things we know of dilute with time. The DNA at the start of this thread is one such example. Light is a lot frailer than DNA! There would reach the point when the inherent noise with in the circuitry would over power any meaningful resolution, filters, noise damping circuits, or whatever, much the same as it does today within the recording media that you have mentioned. The only thing that makes tape actually a usable media is that our hearing is so poor and limited. The very best human hearing ranging for 20 Hz to 22k Hz. And tape comes no where near that my friend. Further tape has other problems being that it is subseptable to magnetism and will magnetize the playback head. This in turn comes back to the tape and starts the degrading process. The sun also affects tape. I could go on and on but I think you get my drift. As I said convince me.....
     
  10. Pro. Max Arturo Good God, I'm not Howard! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    44
    I agree that the difficulties would be great.

    I don't quite understand what you mean to say about tape's limitations. Magnetic tape can record a frequency range that is well beyond human speech or hearing.

    With a conventional tape (voice) recorder, the audio frequency waves are <u>directly</u> transduced (converted) from the audio frequency vibrations into electrical impulses via a microphone. The action of a coil of wire being vibrated (oscillated) over a permanent magnet produces a small electrical current through the amplification stages that are impressed finally by the action of magnetic recording head.


    Yes I am. The capabilities may never exist. but if such capabilities ever do, I believe that some of these things will become possible.

    Certainly the cumulative effect of images, from infrared to ultraviolet, would jumble the ability of a forensic team to discern a single image, but if the traffic in a crime scene area were to be limited, the chances would increased.

    As far as the direct impression of light (various frequency levels) on say-- the drywall & paint of an interior room, I would be more interested in chemical changes on the paint, by the action of light. Light's photo-chemical reaction. Perhaps the photo-chemical processes of photography would have been a better example to use. I did not intend to state that light would impress bumps and ridges into the material directly, I only used the Edison phonograph as a starting point....or basis.

    <b>Allow me to play the part of Leonardo for a moment.</b> I would foresee a forensic team placing a futuristic scanning laser spectrograph into a room of a crime scene. The device would scan every square nanometer in the room and save the information into memory. Each wall would have it's own memory file, as well as the floors and ceiling.

    In the lab, each wall could be analyzed for all photo-chemical reactions of say the last 24 hrs. Granted, the criminal's image would be constantly impressed as he moved about the room. Any possible images that could be retrieved would be blurred in much the same way as an old tintype camera's image would be if the person moved about while the image was being recorded. I would use the conventional camera as an example, but the result of leaving the shutter open too long would result in over-exposure, a condition in which the photo-chemical reaction can become completely exhausted.

    <b><i>The information would be there howe</i>ver.</b> I would also foresee the ability to take such images and extract them. With sufficient photo-chemicals to prevent over-exposure, a double exposure can be extracted out with todays technology.

    <b>Try this on as a thought experiment wet1.</b><i> Basic television--electron guns red, blue, & green.</i> As you probably know, in color television there are the three electron guns (for color) that spray the mixture onto the phosphorus screen to produce images at some 30 per second. Line by line....... Now imagine that instead of using electrons to produce images, you use three Paint Guns!!! Three paint guns, red, blue and green to represent the effect of reflected images on the walls of a crime scene. Each second, some 30 images on the walls, from all different sources. Obviously you would have a lot of paint on the walls pretty quickly & the confusion of sorting the images would be great indeed! But for now, your main interest would be to sort out the last images. This would be possible if the equipment could be built to do it. After all, in forensics, we are just looking to identify the criminal, not make home movies.

    <b>Phasing repetitive images.</b> I believe that software could be developed to take this hopeless mixture of information and seek repetitive information, as well as already known patterns, to extract out possible images. I say "possible", because I expect that some of the first generation software is going to produce a lot of possible combinations that will be rather random. But random is good to some extent. By refining the software to recognize a lamp, a human face, a television in the corner of a room, the ability comes to base a level of proof as well as the ability to rebuild the scene to some degree. Those things in the information that are not moving about can then be discarded as the animate source which is sought. Those images that are determined to be animate (moving about in the crime scene) can then be worked on to produce the image sought by the investigators.

    .....I'll check back in later.....
     
  11. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    During recording, the tape first moves over the erase head, where all trace of earlier programming is removed. The erase head must also leave the head in the maximum random condition for lowest possible noise. Therefore, the erase head gap length is large to provide a strong erasing field. The erase head is also fed with an ac signal in order to minimize noise.
    Next the tape moves over the record head. The record head is usually fabricated with a gap size on the order of the thickness of the magnetic coating. This provides a compromise between low and high frequency response. Additionally, the signal going into the record head is usually altered in two major ways from the original signal. First, an ac component is been added to the signal to linearize the response (see the next section). Secondly, the frequency spectrum is been altered to compensate for losses that occur in the recording process for short wavelength (high frequency) signals. This compensation process (called pre-equalization) has the ultimate goal of giving the tape recorder a flat frequency response up to its maximum design frequency.
    Finally, the tape moves over the reproduce head. The reproduce head is usually fabricated with a small gap in order to maximize short wavelength (high frequency) response. The inductive pick-up generates a signal which is the derivative of the flux, so the signal must be integrated. Additional equalization must be added (called post-equalization) to compensate for losses that occur in the reading process for short wavelength (high frequency) signals -- again with the intent of providing the recorder with a flat frequency response

    Noise
    Bias noise. The noise from a bulk erased tape increased when moved over an ac biased head. Essentially, what is happening is that the bulk-erase noise induced in the record head is re-recorded back on the tape -- resulting in a net doubling of the noise flux power.
    DC noise: A large direct current in the record head will cause the noise level to increase by 10 dB or more at longer wavelengths. This increase has been attributed to inhomogeneities in the coating process. DC bias noise is common in particulate coatings, but very rare in film coatings.
    Surface noise: Certain long wavelength noise is due to variations in head to tape spacing caused by inhomogeneities in the tape surface, tape stiffness changes, and surface treatment.
    Print-through: Print through is an interference effect unique to magnetic tape systems. The problem occurs when magnetically induced information in one layer of the tape induces magnetic changes in the next layer of tape wound on the reel. The interference creates a very distinct pattern of signal echos of ascending strength which precede the signal (pre-prints) and signal echos of descending strength which follow the signal (post-prints). The worst offenders for print-through are magnetically hard materials, particularly cobalt.

    Range
    The human ear is the most sensitive around 3 kHz, but tends to have the widest dynamic range around 1 kHz. Notice that the dynamic range of the ear (around 120 dB) far exceeds that of most recording equipment (60-70 dB). This creates major challenges to the designer!
    The frequency span of the human ear response is traditionally assigned from 20 Hz to 20 kHz - however (with the possible exception of young children) most of us cannot hear reliably over this range. Hearing loss falls off rapidly with age, with significantly greater measured losses for men than for women. (Note that the gender based epidemiology may change significantly as 1. more women enter the workplace, and 2. more laws are enacted regarding wearing sound protection headgear. There is no evidence to suggest that women are better protected than men against hearing loss.)

    This information retrieved from the internet on magnetic tape and recording limitations. Which goes back to tape being a poor recording media that requires much processing just to be used within hearing range.
     
  12. HOWARDSTERN HOWARDSTERN has logged out.... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    364
    Guess he showed you Max!!!!!!

    WET>>>>>>1, you are supreme! MAN, you'd make a hell of a Vulcan!

    No wonder you became a moderator in record time! I envy your logical precision! Porfiry chose well.

    I feel so damned inadequate now! BUT NOT SO AS MAX ARTURO!

    WOW! There is so much in the micro realm of details, even for the conventional tape recorder, beyond the general understanding.


    NOW ONTO OHMS LAW?????? INDUCTIVE CAPACITANCE????


    GREAT POST!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    max, I guess your not too bad, but full of it!
     
  13. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Thread edited

    Being as we have gotten so far off the original topic I have taken the liberty to split the thread and rename it. The original topic remains on page 2 should you wish to comment on it.
     
  14. LordManimal Registered Member

    Messages:
    17
    AHEM!

    Max stated in the beginning:

    "all of the other members who post, are as tasteless as "dry toast." "

    /end quote

    Although I am new, I find that sort of remark not only un-necessary, but about as large an ego inflationary device I have ever seen. If you feel the need to tout your intellect in such a manner Max; then I pity you. Some of us learned a long time ago, that self bolstering, and depreciation of others is no substitute for sheer confidence. One day, maybe you'll discover this as well.

    I for one have nothing to prove, especially to "shmart pepulz" like you, but I feel the need to say something so that others who haven't found the self fortitude to take a slam like that for what it's worth, might not take it to heart. IMHO it was a necessary, sorrowful, self-elevating statement by an insecure person who can find nothing better to do with his time than insult others with cute little "quips". If you were my professor, and you spoke to me directly like that, you can rest assured you'd have a sack of doorknobs waiting for you in the parking lot after school. You can do the math on that one Wiz.

    See ya round the forums!

    /me tips hat
     
  15. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    LordManimal,
    Though I agree with the majority of that last statement, I cannot condone that door knob reference. You are embodying the exact type of person Arturo was attacking. While I believe that Arturo is a genious, training the student that invented an interdimensional transporter, he is afflicted with a superiority complex. (Maybe he is just roleplaying)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2001
  16. LordManimal Registered Member

    Messages:
    17
    Hmmm....

    Perhaps you are correct Teg, he may have been roleplaying, and perhaps I was a bit overzealous. My doorknobs reference was exactly as you saw it, a ploy to embody the exact type of person he was referencing, but with a twist. To remind him that wrong or right, sometimes needlessly slamming a group of people can have dire consequences. It wouldn't be the first time someone has had their "flamin arses kicked" for being snide. It would do him well at any rate to grant the same common courtesy he would give someone in person, to people on the internet. With all the cool new "toyz" out there right now (SubSeven anyone?) it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to have someone actually show up on your doorstep with that very sack of doorknobs.

    Think about it...
     
  17. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    It would be wrong of him to assume safety due to anonymity.
    I see your point. As long as we are not doing the beating we have the moral high ground.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2001
  18. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    LordManimal, welcome to Sciforums. Teg I have welcomed in another post before arriving at this one.

    When someone butters your bread for no reason they are up to something. The questions then are Why and What are they after.

    Sometimes it is necessary to draw one out to get to the bottom of it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page