Weapons development

Lethal Weapon
The United States army is developing the mother of all stink bombs, with a stench so repulsive that it can disperse rioters and empty streets. The effort to create a mixture of malodorous molecules that does not kill or maim but can halt disorderly mobs is part of the Pentagon's Nonlethal Weapons Programme. The army believes that a vile stink could help drive away enemy troops or hostile crowds and enforce no-go zones around sensitive installations, says today's issue of New Scientist.



Australian Fruit Gun
Three youths have been arrested after allegedly using home-made weapons to fire fruit at cars on Brisbane's northside overnight. Police said the youths used PVC piping to fire fruit at the vehicles on Sandgate Road at Virginia around 10pm (AEST). No-one was hurt and no cars were damaged, but the youths will be appearing in court on a number of charges later this month.

 

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Hey Wet1, thats where I live, except I live Southside(South of the Brisbane river). You know the one time I don't watch the news and I mean the ONE time something actually happens in my city that you guys are interested in.

Well, I think thats a good idea to make that nonlethal bomb. I'm not talking about using it just for any old protest but for riots. I hope we can use it at CHOGM(Commonwelth Heads of Goverment Meeting) because some people who believe in democracy are going to go around forcing there views on people. The last time Australia had CHOGM(not sure if it was in my city) a bomb went off. Very very unusaul for Australia. So if any protestors use violence I want to see them canned for violating Democracy.

Well, I hope the US can make it and get it here by Octobor.

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Just goes to show you that news can happen in anyone's neck of the woods, Deadwood.

What they didn't make plain is; If it stinks on the street level how are you going to deal with it if you live nearby? You'll be running with the protesters to get away from the smell. That puts you right in the middle of the problems. Not a good place to be in this case.

 

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Hey Wet1,

Did you know that in German Naturopathy the sympton can be used to cure the sickness.

So according to that theory, if someone puts up a stink, you just give them something that stinks.


But I live in the suburbs so it shouldn't effect me. However, I go to college in the city. But guess what, I get two student free days when its on. Sweet. But anyway, I can handle pretty nastie smells. I've worked part time as a cleaner since I was 10. Seen and smelt and handled some pretty yucky stuff in my time, not to mention needles. Also disected a rat in biology and didn't think much of it(the smell). It was funny watching all of the girls freak out and feel sick. But it would have to be a pretty putrid smell I'm thinking.

 

I kind of speculate that they are not telling all here. When they say stink bomb, that's all they are saying. Nothing more which makes me suspicous. Just because it doesn't maim you like a nerve gas would if you got just a finge dose doesn't mean it is harmless. A manufactured stink could easy be of the kind so powerful that it doubles you over, reching instead of running. And if your find that you are allergic to the componet/s that it is made of, you may find that it was your last hurrah. Not a pleasent picture I'll grant you.

There are smells and then there are smells.

 

Yuo have a point. There are smells and there are smells(neumonia etc)

 

Charge of the light brigade

Charge of the light brigade
Huge magnetic pulses could replace tonnes of armour plating in tanks
TANK armour that destroys enemy missiles with massive electromagnetic fields is being developed by government scientists in the US and Britain. Tanks fitted with this "smart armour" would be much lighter, making them easier to transport rapidly to far-flung war zones.
The biggest threats to tanks in battle are rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank guided missiles, says Mike Zoltowski of the US Army Research Laboratory in Aberdeen, Maryland. Both use explosive devices called shape charges - hollow copper cones built into the missile's warhead. Explosives packed around the outside of the cone detonate on impact, squashing the cone and forcing a fine jet of copper out of the front of the shell at more than 9 kilometres a second. "When it impacts the armour, the forces generated are enough to push it out of the way and penetrate through it," says Zoltowski. "If it gets through the armour and into the vehicle . . . it causes big problems."
Chris Foss, editor of Jane's Armour and Artillery, says a shape-charge jet can punch a hole through tens of centimetres of steel. So to withstand an attack, key areas on tanks are cladded with around 80 centimetres of steel plating. "This is a significant percentage of the weight of the vehicle," says Zoltowski. "What we want to do is make this lighter, so we can go from a 70-tonne vehicle to a 20-tonne vehicle."
Tanks are often moved to war zones by heavy transport aircraft, so the planes will be able to carry more tanks. The quest for lighter tanks prompted Zoltowski to look at alternatives to traditional heavy armour. His smart armour consists of tiles built of a sandwich of various materials. On the outside of the smart armour is a thin fabric coating to protect against accidental damage that could be caused by flying debris or even tree branches. Beneath this protective layer is a mat woven from optical fibres. This mat sits on a thin outer sheet of standard armour plating.
When a missile strikes the tile, it breaks the fibre-optic mat and then detonates as it hits the armour plating behind. Sensors that monitor light passing through the fibre-optic mat detect the breakage and immediately release a huge electric current stored in capacitors aboard the tank.

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Current from the capacitors is channelled to a wire coil that sits directly behind the outer armour plate. This rapidly generates a huge magnetic field just as the high-velocity shape-charge jet is forming (see Diagram). Zoltowski says that if the field created is powerful enough, it will induce electrical currents in the copper jet.
"If you get enough current into it, you can heat it up and start pinching it in certain regions, making it unstable," he says. Ultimately, Zoltowski says the magnetic field will be able to break up and scatter fragments of the jet, robbing it of the power to puncture a hole in the final layer of base armour.
The researchers will not talk about specific design details, such as the thickness of the armour, but Zoltowski believes that the circuitry can react quickly enough to stop a missile. If the armour works, it'll make a big difference on the battlefield.
"At the moment, if you want to try and take out a tank, you use a shape charge," says Foss. In steel, these charges will penetrate up to nine times their diameter. "If you can disrupt it so it's not concentrated on one point, it's a plausible approach," he says. "The benefit is that you wouldn't need 800 millimetres equivalent of steel armour."

 

wet1
I saw a show on discovery about non- lethal weapons it had something similar to the "stink bomb" they use a paintball gun as the delivery system. So it's more effective on individuals. I do believe they made mention of a bomb but said to many factors (prevailing wind, proximity to your own men, etc...) to be that useful. Same show kind of hinted towards a vehicle covered with a fiber optic camouflage to make it all most invisible. The last I had heard they were using depleted uranium to penetrate the armor. Anyway wouldn't the magnetic field disrupt there own circuitry in the tank?

 

If I remember rightly the main circuitry in the M1 Abrams is the battle field computer. This does things such as stablize the gun while moving so that you can hit a target on the run. Other than that there is the radios, and some light stuff for the engine, indicators, and black out lights. I would think that most if not all of this could be shielded to prevent problems.

 

Where 30% of our GDP is going

Our friends at DARPA and NRL are definitely burning the midnight oil to think of new ways to wage war (or keep the peace) - it depends on your perspective.

Here are a few links to some current projects:

http://www.dote.osd.mil/reports/FY00/index.html
http://www.darpa.mil/DARPATech2000/presentation.html
http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Echelon/ic2kreport.htm#_Toc448565541
http://web.nps.navy.mil/~library/bibs/dewweb.htm

Some of these projects (and others I've run across) seem to blur the difference between science and science fiction, but they sure do make an interesting read.

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ABRAMS TANK (M1A2)

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Army ACAT IC Program Prime Contractor
Total Number of Systems: 1155 General Dynamics Land Systems
Total Program Cost (TY$): $9976.3M
Average Unit Cost (TY$): $7.84M
Full-rate production: 3QFY94
SEP Production 4QFY99

Thought I would throw this in as I learned quite a bit about it off the first link.

Thank you for the links. babelfish!

 

The Army really scares me sometimes. They sometimes get a wild hair and go charging off without really looking at the issue. Let me give you two examples:

In the late 1950's they were desperate to participate in the "Nuclear Triad". That was what we called our war deterent in the Cold War. It consisted of the nuke subs, B52 bombers and missiles. That was held by the Navy and Air Force. They got all the money and the Army didn't get any so the Army kept trying to come up with something that would get them some of that cold war defense money. One idea they had was to have a nuclear warhead on a cannon shell. They would shoot the cannon just like any (very large) cannon but the shell was a nuke weapon. There was just one problem - the lethal kill radius of the weapon was greater than the range of the cannon ! In effect, each gun got one shot because then the crew would be dead. Great idea Army!

As for the stink bomb. Let me give you some "inside info" on a commercial product at your local store that will defeat the stint bomb. You've seen pictures on TV the happy housewife spraying Lysol Air Deodorizer and the horrible fish smells from her dinner are "instantly gone!". Actually it really does work but not the way you think it does. The spray has a tiny amount of a special chemical that neutralizes your nose's ability to smell. It is not absolute, it is not permanent and it does not hurt you but the effect is that you think that the instant that you spray, the smell goes away. In fact, if you sprayed a very tiny amount on your finger and rubbed it on your upper lip just under your nose, it would work exactly the same and your can of Lysol Air Deodorizer would last for years.

Army.....the defeat for your stink weapon is fairly easy. Lysol Air Deodorizer rubbed under the nose.

Actually, it might need something a little stronger than Lysol but that is also readily available. The crews of FEMA and other disaster recover teams know all about the bad smell that can happen if a large number of animals or humans are killed and left in the sun for a few days. The smell is not harmful but it does really smell bad. One response is to put on surgical masks but that sometimes does not work so they have come up with a cream that does what Lysol does but it is MUCH more powerful. It completely stops your sense of smell. The cream is rubbed under the nose and works as long as it is there. Within an hour or so after washing it off, you return to normal.

That's our Army - An Army of One! One track Mind, One idea at a time, One response to everything. Oh well.

 

Re: Charge of the light brigade

Nice theory, though practice has shown that whenever such an invention comes along, weapons are modded to circumvent such a scheme. In fact some tanks already have been equiped with a sort of smart armor. Underneeth a thin steel plate armor there is a sort of explosive coating. Upon impact of a grenade or rocket this coating explodes, deflecting the projectile... So grenade shells were modded to cary two or three exploding charges, where the second and third charge explode microseconds after the first one. While the first explosion disables the explosive coating, the second and third charge still cause huge damage to the tank...





An intelligent armor, such as the one described in the quoted article, can easily be defeated by two shots fired very rapidely one after the other... Shot 1 causes damage to the optical layer, trigerring a huge electrical discharge, result: depleted batteries. Shot two BAAAMM Bye Bye Tank!





In fact there even exist anti aircraft guns that fire 2000-3000 conventional bulllets in a small fraction of time (say simultaniously) causing a flying cube of bullets (i mean a 3D grid) ... I suppose this is possible for grenades as well

 

Such is the nature of war and technological advances. One advance is made and a defense is made for it. Then another, followed by yet another. It is the way of things.

Welcome to Sciforums, TheRealDcoy. I think you will like it here.

 

These are the names of some of the stuff you have been describing...

"reactive armor" - layered explosives with layers of special steel.

"Rail-Gun" - an electronmagnetically accelerated disk on a long large rod. Capable of ballistic speeds of 30,000 ft per second - fast enough to use as a gun to shot into space. Was considered as part of the star wars defense shield but it is big, bulky and difficult to aim.

and how about this weird but real stuff....

A bomb that is filled with VERY high octane gas. The bomb opens up 250 ft or so above the ground to release the gas into a huge cloud then a delayed igniter lights the gas, The flash explosion is so powerful it will implode a tank. The massive pressure on the outside cannot be equalized by the normal pressure on the inside so it implodes.

A special bullet that officially meets the NATO Treaty requirements for a full metal jacketed bullet (in effect since before WWII) BUT it is made in such a way that it expands from about a 30 calibre to larger than a 80 calibre - that is from about 1/2 inch in diameter to over 2 inches in dia. This all happens within the first few inches of hitting someone so that the entry wound is 1/2 inch but the exit wound is 4 to 10 inches!! The reason that is is larger than the bullet is because of "hydrostatic surge". That means that the liquid in your body can't get out of the way fast enough so it builds up in front of the bullet - effectively making it a larger bullet.

How about the new laser beam weapon designed to blind the enemy - not much pain, no damage to equipment - just blind.

Or the new bomb that is specificall y designed to pop eardrums. Imagine an enemy that cannot hear at all. Radios are useless.

There's also a new "pain ray" that is actually a microwave oven withou the oven. A big flat antienna can aim the beam at people. It fries the skin to a depth of 1/64th of an inch. Hurts like crazy but no permanent harm. Works thru all but metal including clothes, walls, windows, etc. It will soon be deployed as a riot control weapon.

An then there is the resonator that uses a laser to determine the resonant freq of an object (building, tank, bunker, airplane, etc.) and then a special beamed sound wave vibrates the object at that resonant freq. The laser keeps adjusting the freq so that it keeps it in resonance as the object heats up. Eventually it shatters like a glass - even metal will break up due to induced metal fatigue.

How about the 3-D killer. A bad guy checks into a hotel. good guys (?) setup in the rooms left and rigth and above or below - on three sides. Each good guy has a special ray gun that is harmless if it is beamed at you but when it intersects with the the other two, it is lethal. They are coordinated by wireless computer links to point at the bad guy from 3 sides and poof - crispy critters.

 

The magnetic pulse armor sounds like "energy shield" to me. One major show stopper for this kind of "energy shield" is the battery. Size does matters in this case. Unless someone invent the micro-fusion generator.

 

Re: Charge of the light brigade

Hmmmmmm.....
A cone shaped bit of copper forced into a super high speed condition--turned into a armour piercing "jet" of copper plasma? Interesting. The tip (apex) of the cone being the the first part of the cone affected by the initializing explosive charge, with the micro-time result being that the rest of the cone being somewhat of a magnifying glass which focuses and concentrates the copper plasma projectile greatly. I assume that the copper cone becomes effectively turned inside-out, causing this super highly concentrated plasma projectile?

I am further assuming that copper is currently used because it is the present tech limit of weapons designers? A steel cone being too difficult to force into an armour piercing steel plasma? If it were possible to turn a steel cone into a similar plasma jet, then I again assume that it's armour penetration capabilties would far exceed that of a copper jet? That such a steel shaped charge would likely cut through just about any kind of armour as though it were nothing but air? Interesting.

That such a shaped charge idea might actually be a form of resonance disruption of matter itself? That in fact future such shaped charges might utilize a possible matter resonation initializing explosion to set up a disruptive frequency (into the armour piercing jet) that would presumably match the base frequency of the target armour's metal? Interesting.

I say this under the presumption that virtually all the matter that we see is mostly just energy fields anyway. I believe that I may have read somewhere that if all the substantials of matter in the universe were condensed, then the entire universe could fit into a teaspoon?

Frequency resonation of matter as an offensive device?


Great post wet1! I love talking weapons design! A very interesting subject at any time.

 

Weapons are only as good as the troops who use them and the leaders who inform and direct them.

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DIGITIZATION DESCRIPTION AND CONTRIBUTION TO JOINT VISION 2020
Battlefield digitization is viewed by the Army as the essential enabler that will provide information superiority on the tactical battlefield. Battlefield Digitization is intended to support the Joint Vision 2020 concepts of dominant maneuver, precision engagement, focused logistics, and full-dimensional protection via improved command and control. Components of Battlefield Digitization include the computers, routers, and radios that comprise a vast network extending vertically from Corps down to individual platforms, and horizontally across all combined arms elements of the force. It can be decomposed into two major sub-networks: the lower Tactical Internet which encompasses the weapons platforms and vehicles (with their associated command, control, and communications systems), and the upper Tactical Internet which links the Tactical Operations Centers (TOCs) of the force from battalion through corps.
DOT&E currently performs oversight on many of the individual systems comprising Battlefield Digitization. Oversight systems that will operate on the lower Tactical Internet include Force XXI Battle Command, Brigade and Below (FBCB2) computers and software, the Enhanced Position Location Reporting System (EPLRS), and the Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) and Internet Controller. Oversight systems that will operate within the upper Tactical Internet include the Army Tactical Command and Control System (ATCCS) components (MCS, ASAS, AFATDS, CSSCS, and FAAD C3I) and the Mobile Subscriber and Near-Term Data Radio communication systems. The Joint Tactical Radio System (JTRS) is expected to replace the Near-Term Data Radio, SINCGARS, and EPLRS when it enters service, and will be a key element of the Warfighters Information Network-Tactical (WIN-T). The Command and Control Vehicle (C2V) was to be the vehicular shelter that housed many of the upper Tactical Internet components, however, the Army terminated this program during FY00. "Embedded Digital Platforms" include the M2A3 Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the M1A2 Abrams Tank System Enhancement Program. Each of the underlined systems is fully addressed in a separate section of the Annual Report, alphabetized under "Army Systems."
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
The Army initiated the Force XXI Battlefield Digitization program in 1994, with the intent to proliferate and integrate digital communications and information management technologies across the combined arms spectrum. The Army's efforts have been demonstrated in a series of Advanced Warfighting Experiments (AWEs), where the hypothesis: "If information age, battle-command capabilities and connectivity exist across all battlefield operating systems, then increases in lethality, survivability, and op tempo will be achieved," has been examined. Although neither the antecedent nor the consequence of this hypothesis has been observed to date, the Army has accelerated the delivery of digital technologies to operational users and reduced the number of maneuver companies in each heavy division by 25 percent.

 

The US Army now has a non-lethal weapon it is currently testing that will be used in situations where lethal force is not desired. It basically is a high-power, highly focuese, micorwave beam that "heats up the subjects skin to a depth of several millimeters" and causes intense pain, but no permanent effects. Kinda like cooking your face in a microwave oven

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Reactive Armor - actually been around for a long time

Rail Gun - Currently being worked at places like the University of Texas at Austin

High-octane bomb - called a "fuel-air" explosive and can approach the power of a small nuclear explosion. Used in the Gulf war on Iraq's soldiers who were hiding in bunkers. Kills by the overpressure it develops.

Laser beams - A couple of years ago, two US helicopter pilots were used as test subjects by a Russian "spy trawler". They developed symptoms that ranged from blurred vision to intense headaches after their mission to photograph the trawler. Upon going back and viewing the photographs they took, it was discovered that a dot of laser light could be seen in the window of one of the cabins on the trawler. It is suspected that a laser beam was used on the pilots while they were taking their photographs.


...the list goes on and on. When we hear about a weapons system, it is a very good bet that it has already been developed for several years by somebody. Just imagine what they are developing right now...