Photo reading??? [Archive]

Anon1268

08-26-01, 05:56 AM

Hope im not 'getting the wrong end of the stick' here, I have NOT seen the 'infomercial' as I am from the UK.

If 'Photoreading' is a way of reading text at high speed:

I remember seeing, a long time ago in a forgotten corner of the internet, a piece of software which breaks text files down into words, then displays a small box in the centre of the screen which 'flashes up' these words in the correct order, at a very fast rate. The theory is that the brain can cope with reading much faster if it does no thave to filter out the extra noise of the words around it, and the software supposedly increased your reading speed when using it. I was dubious, and still am, but a piece of software like this would not be hard to write, for experimental purposes.

I am dubious because I think reading a text requires understanding of both the atomic elements (i.e. letters which make up 'words' - as far as reading goes, the smallest 'atom' we seem to need to worry about is the word ) and of the entire context, i.e. the words which surround others. Maybe not... it might be an interesting experiment. Notice how, when glancing at a single word, it is almost impossible to look without 'understanding' or reading the word.

Hope this is somewhere near the mark!

If 'Photoreading' is something else entirely:

Oops! sorry!

bassguymike

08-26-01, 08:59 AM

I just was watching a Photo Reading infomercial a few moments ago, I came right to the internet to learn more about it.

I went to the offical website and found that it was some $250 to get the "kit."

I'm reluctant to dish out that much money without actaully knowing how it works.

If anyone knows anything about this "Photoreading," I'd like to hear what they have to say.

-Mike

Anon1268

08-26-01, 11:43 AM

Anon1268

08-26-01, 12:02 PM

http://www.beyondhuman.com/photoreadingPLC.htm

http://www.anakin.com/Pages/mattdocs/ladder.html

http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/cgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=PhotoReading&number=8

http://exploreit.net/stereoreading/photoreading.htm <-- a good one...

http://exploreit.net/stereoreading/index.htm

Also, it seems that one of the techniques for 'recovering the information' is something along the lines of mind-mapping, which is an old technique, and much documented.

Can't help thinking there is a good idea in there somewhere, although it reeks of 'gimmicky-ness' to me.
( The marketing garbage makes me ill... )

Cris

08-26-01, 12:30 PM

Anon,

There is too much hype surrounding this. It is a hard sell with little science to back it up. The reference to Einstein who claimed we only use 10% of our brain has been firmly refuted many times now. We use all of our brain. This attempt to throw in a famous name to give credibility to their sales talk gave me much concern.

Follow this link - this shows possibly where the idea for photoreading came from. http://www.subdyn.com/photored.html

There is a lot of references on the web to photoreading and all seem to be asking you to send money. I suspect the technique works but it won't be as good as they claim. If you can afford to lose your money then try it, otherwise I would advise you to continue to search for some independent research and evidence.

Cris

Cris

08-26-01, 12:32 PM

Anon,

Looks like we are doing the same type of searching. I have to admit that I am intrigued and I have been thinking about speed-reading for many years.

Cris

Anon1268

08-26-01, 12:48 PM

I Agree that this seems to be a huge amount of hype. However, the idea of 'blasting' data into the right brain appeals to me.

With right-brain activity heightened by Alpha and Theta waves, and a vast amount of information passed before the eyes, who is to say what is being stored? Kind of like the machine in 'The Lawnmower Man'.. still seems a little SF. However.. sound waves ( pink noise etc ) can stimulate these kinds of brain reaction, and i am certainly inclined to believe that music helps with learning, maybe the root lies somewhere.

I would tend to agree that the brain can cope with much more than we 'feed' it, and that we are just conditioned not to.

Still not paying 250 dollars... :)

wet1

08-26-01, 09:50 PM

Infomercials are something I am highly skeptic about. If it was such a great product you couldn't keep people away. The fact that they put it on the air waves means that usually it is hogwash with a little something there to make it sound reasonable. If 5% of the viewers actually send money they have made a killing.

One of the techniques that I pickup a long time ago and have practiced ever since which leads to faster reading is to lop off the ends. Depend on peripheral vision to pick up the ends. Especially in column type reading. It won't take long to discover if you got the context of the sentence, as it will either make sense or it won't. The biggest amount of time it will.

Roughly 2/3's is all you need to look at to get the gist of the subject that is involved. It will change depending upon the depth and technicality of the subject. With lighter stuff you can move the 1/3's inward. For heavier stuff you move them towards the ends.

bassguymike

08-26-01, 10:45 PM

I have looked on a various number of pages on the internet, and basically the all say the same thing about how to photoread. There are some other steps, but photoreading involves getting into a meditation-like state (I read that you should close your eyes and then imagine looking at yourself from behind you head at the reading material), then, when you are relaxed, just simply look at the words on the page as fast as you can, not actually trying to comprehend what the words mean. You should go through each page in about a second.

Then you wait on it (the recommened time is 24 hours so you can sleep on it, or 20 min of it's necessary).

After that you try to remember as much as you can about the material.

Very interesting concept, but I wouldn't want to pay $250 to have some guy tell me that on video.

Cris

08-26-01, 10:53 PM

I wanted to find some truly independent reviews but there doesn't seem to be any. That's a worry. And I'm not about to trust the tetimonials published by the vendors.

Cris

Anon1268

08-27-01, 04:45 AM

I have come to the conclusion that, good idea as it may be, we all naturally practice this form of reading in some way or other... flicking through a magazine in a shop, or a book in a library, or even flicking through news on the internet. It *IS* a marketing ploy. I have no doubt that there is something in it, scientifically speaking, however - and if it takes marketing to bring that to the attention of someone with slightly more honorable goals than 'making a quick buck' then so be it.

All the articles talk about reading as if it is a laborious task. To me this is nonsense. I ENJOY reading, and i like to savour the use of language and appreciate it for the art form it is, *100%* of it. not '10% is material, 90% is filler'. I agree, PhotoReading could be useful for reading technical documents and books quickly, but i sincerely suspect that any of us *with learning skills* do so to an extent anyway...

I gave 'StereoReading' a go yesterday ( kind of like photoReading, with slight differences ) and found that it gave me a headache, but I *do* have some (albeit miniscule) recollection of the texts i read - not in anything like the detail i would like, but then I'm not sure i did it right. I'm sticking to enjoying reading for now...

bassguymike

08-27-01, 05:53 PM

yeah photo reading my be a marketing ploy, and I do enjoy reading books to gain the full benifit that the author intended, but I still think it would be cool to tell someone that you can read 693,000 words be minute like the guy on the infomercial...:)

aejuliet

08-30-01, 06:26 PM

i think photo reading really is something..
its a very cool concept
something that i am sure will eventually work for me
i just tried stereo reading
it seemed to me that i really experience the "high" that the webmaster was talking about
wow... this is so cool
a look into the human brain...
so cool
i felt like i used a part of me that was never used b4
everyone should try this (not buy the 250 dollar thing. i never did just try out stero reading)

batman

09-15-01, 01:17 PM

I visited lots of sites, intrigued by the radio ad (informercial) over the past few weeks.

Started with a Google search, and ended up finding out the origin of speedreading, and lots of other related "accelerated learning" information...

Visit my "Surfing History" and you can also find out why you don't need to spend $250US :eek: necessarily, the info. is out there! :cool:

http://batman.getmyip.com/SurfingHistory/2001/09/15.asp

Just thought I would make my 2 hour obsessive surfing session benefit others :D

aejuliet

09-16-01, 03:39 AM

wow...
nice work
ill check them out soon
thx a lot for the info!!!!
:cool:

Radical

09-18-01, 07:57 AM

There is too much hype surrounding this. It is a hard sell with little science to back it up. The reference to Einstein who claimed we only use 10% of our brain has been firmly refuted many times now. We use all of our brain. This attempt to throw in a famous name to give credibility to their sales talk gave me much concern.

clearly u did not visit http://totl.net/STI/athome/

see how to u/l d/l units to your brain

kmguru

09-18-01, 09:22 PM

You can do Photo-reading yourself:

Start by getting those large letter books that kids and older people use. Scan the book from page to page at first slowly. Practice with a relaxed mind. You will be able to get the gist of the book.

Then do the same with subjects that you like, this time with normal size fonts. The brain soaks from larger (12 point and up) faster than smaller fonts. It is because of the resolution and how brain processes the information.

Then practice and practice...

defroth

09-27-01, 04:57 AM

I've heard about it. Actually I'm watching it as I type this. I figured I'd Google it. If this does work then I could really use it.

mlbulla

10-02-01, 06:25 AM

First off, I would like to state I have not read the PhotoReading book, or used the system, however common sense tells me this...

The biggest problem with PhotoReading's claims as with most "get smart fast", "get rich fast", and other miracle systems is this:

If the claims made for such amazing results were true, then why is guy selling a system on TV for some $250 a pop?....

If this system really worked, surely this guy would have read every book on the planet by now, and not have to resort to infomercials to make money.
If this system worked, how come this guy isn't loaded with Jeopardy prize money? Or raking in the cash on "Who wants to be a millionaire"?
Why doesn't he just real quickly read every book on investment banking or stock picking and parlay a small amount of money into millions? or take a job in an ultra-high-paying field, which he could educate himself about in days, according to his claims?

The major flaw with these type systems is that if they really worked as claimed, he'd be so rich by now, he'd be giving the system away. Not hawking it on infomercials for a ridicolous amount of cash. I challenge Peter Bissonette, Don LuPree, and all other "get something quick" system authors, to explain to the public exactly why they need to sell these systems on TV at outrageous prices if they really work as claimed.

kmguru

10-03-01, 10:56 AM

Very good points. On the other hand, reading and understanding are two different things. It is like the old adage - God, you gave them eyes but they can not see...

But more likely, the product category reminds me of those X-ray glasses they sold in comic books, when I was a kid.

batman

10-03-01, 11:16 AM

Just a reminder in case anyone has not visited some of the URLs I posted there...

The technique behind "photo-reading" is essentially a combination of old-school speed-reading/skimming/followingthefinger methods, combined with one component of a multii-component new method of learning... I can't remember what it is called now, but basically it focuses on some altered-mental-state techniques which personally I think are dangerous for spiritual reasons... So if you aren't interested in going full-force with this "new" stuff, then you might as well pick up an "old school" speed-reading book from your local library...:rolleyes:

The one thing that bothers me of the things I have read about photo-reading: :eek:You do NOT understand or remember any/most of the content until you are "quizzed" in a way. So you have phot-images in your brain of say 600 pages, but you did not "learn" page 1, page 2, then page 3 etc. like normal reading. Instead you have the images in your brain, available for "scanning for information" at a later point.

That sums up what I understood is so special about the technique.

Heck, you might as well OCR scan the text and then do some keyword queries or better yet use some university's AI technology to "summarize" the text! :D

batman

10-03-01, 11:21 AM

Oh yeah, this is the name of that full-fledged program...
Subliminal Dynamics Brain Management

As I had scribbled in my surfing history (http://batman.getmyip.com/SurfingHistory/2001/09/15.asp)

Photo Reading is apparently STOLEN :eek: from another program "the Subliminal Dynamics Brain Management Course"
as they state on this URL:
http://www.subdyn.com/photored.html

kmguru

10-03-01, 12:09 PM

Photo Reading is apparently STOLEN from another program "the Subliminal Dynamics Brain Management Course"

If that is the case, why does Subdyn blames photo reading does not work? In essence saying, Subdyn teaching does not work!

KingdomWarrior

10-07-01, 04:06 AM

I say let's find out: pitch in $10ea and buy the stupid thing then pass it arround. Is there a law that says don' t buy stuff together?
Let' s do that and see ...
Remember tht it is illegal to make copies!

stuart from cornwall

10-26-01, 02:34 PM

I saw this chap on TV in the uk who was a hypnotist apparantly learning books quickly. I spoke to the boss of my teacher training college and she said photo reading was a fact and that she recently missed a lecture on it by a leading specialist on learning. I have just acquired an old book called read better,read faster by the pelican label, I will forward my findings. I suggest that if there is anyone who may have more specific details of the $250 knowlege, they give us more clues. I do believe in all level headedness that if there was such a magic technique, It would have been discovered a lot earlier and would probably be available for a lot less than 250 dollars. It would be nice to read boring books in record time however, If this were possible, I imagine one of these chaps would be quickly able to make vast contributions to society as a synergistic product of his immense reading. It reeks of bullshit. As a scientist, teacher and a reader of factual allsorts, I suggest it is possible to read say a line at a time with practice, I have been exploring this by reading paperbacks this way but it does cause eye strain, I haven't yet explored autosuggestion as I am still getting to grips with hypnotism. Anyway, I would be stoked to hear from anyone with input

cheers stuart

Risky

10-27-01, 04:50 AM

just saw this on television. i realized that every so often when reading something i don't enjoy, i tend to drift and end up merely looking at the pages. however, i've never really been able to recall information with too much detail after such a "study" session. I usually only end up barely getting away with a B- on whatever test it happens to be.

is there some trick used in order to bring the information out of the subconcious mind? and if that's all it is, then i'm definitely interested in learning how to use it. if it's legitimate, that is.

OmegaSeven

10-28-01, 11:30 AM

The whole concept sounds a little strange I have even wondered if it is a fraud.

tcoffeen

11-08-01, 07:22 PM

I was exposed to this subject when I did a general search at the local library for speed reading (working in IT is a drag when you have to plow through a dozen + manuals a day). :-(

I found a book called "Rapid Reading Made E-Z" by Paul Scheele himself. It basically outlines the photoreading process in what I would assume is a more perfunctory level than the full blown program (haven't seen the infomercial). The book retails for $30.

I don't know how I feel about the whole process as described in the book. While I agree that the mind is capable of gathering and utilizing information in non-traditional ways it seems like a contradiction to attempt to put some sort of yoke on this process for what would necessarily be "left-brain" goals (i.e. the conscious pursuit of knowledge, etc).

tom

soylentgreen

11-10-01, 08:06 AM

I am looking and looking, I find tons on subliminal reading and the likes but no real data, mainly just hype from research institutes, I found a ton on subliminal and mental photography but nothing that has been validated so I am sure its pretty fringe stuff, and from what I have read about this Paul Scheele guy, he is more intrested in your pocket book then your well being.

but still, there is that really big IF
heh

bye

Soylent Green Is people

cmoyer_musician

11-13-01, 06:03 AM

Hey! I'm not about to part with any more of my money to get something created by Paul Sheele or Pete Bissonette, but anyone who would like to get the course would do much better by checking Ebay. Right now there is a course up for auction at $122.00, and the auction ends in 2 days. I doubt the price will get over $150.00. I made the mistake of buying a set of Paraliminal tapes created by Paul Sheele that were purported to do all kinds of wonderful things to your learning process. The background sound on the tapes sounded cool, but that's about it. I'd say Paraliminal tapes are no different than subliminal tapes. I did a research report on subliminal tapes in college and found that there was no verifiable evidence that subliminal tapes actually worked. This is fringe stuff, and has no scientific validity. I think this photo reading crap is more of the same. I mean, come on! Did you guys see the part of the infomercial where Pete scrolled down with his mouse through that book on the computer, supposedly photo reading it as the words were flying by? The pages were going by so fast they were a blur. Only an idiot savant with exceptional talent could perhaps keep track of where the words were on the page. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe Pete can read that fast. He's selling the damn system, so of course he's going to make himself look good. He can do anything he wants- it's his infomercial! The whole thing was staged in my opinion, and I really doubt whether any of the testimonials were true. If there actually were many people who had succeeded in "photo reading" we would see many message boards like this one where satisfied users were raving about the results. Of course, none of us have been able to find any at all, at least none that occur outside of the company's own sponsored web pages. If it can be proven that the system works, I'd be glad to shell out 150 for it on Ebay, but my gut feeling tells me our minds just don't work that way. We have to process information cognitively. We can't just glance at an entire page in one second, go to sleep, and then wake up the next day and be able to answer questions about it. I would be happy to debate any one who disagrees with this. Ok, that's all from me. If anyone on this board decides to get the program, let the rest of us know if its worth the money, or if its best suited for crumpling up and throwing in the fire. - Chris

soylentgreen

11-20-01, 01:36 PM

hey cmoyer, I totally agree, but again, I did some research on subliminal messages, not so much tapes but video, and what I had noticed is that if the message were too complex. if there was only text and no picture the failure rate was much much higher, the mind works on imagery I have to admit but it need something to define the image, thats why those old frames that would flash in a movie worked soo well, they took the well known picture of the classic coke bottle and beneth it is said, drink coke, so you have an image for the mind and a simple message for what the brain should do with the picture

as for something as advanced as saying, absorb writen text, I think that the message is way to confusing cause with that you have to tell you brain that and then show it the page, the only way I see it working if there were only a few words per page. 5 at max, and every other page would have to say, absorb writen text, then mabey it could be shot at you at realy high speeds but thats about all I know on the subject

kmguru

11-20-01, 11:47 PM

When you have an intense need, anyone can become a super reader. A few years ago, I was asked to troubleshoot a COBOL program. I had not touched COBOL for 20 years. I was able to go through the 3.5 inch thick printout and find problems and meet the deadline. I had to drink coffee to acomplish this task (I do not normally drink coffee) since my brain wanted to fall asleep.

So, may be it is the desire - that is all you need....

missrain

11-23-01, 06:03 AM

The public library and the internet are the best resources for information on this. And they are FREE. Also, "The Photoreading Whole Mind System" by Scheele is available for about 15$. I'm sure this is easily self-taught. Even if you shell out the 250$, you are still the one who must do the work of learning it, so you might as well save your cash.
www.readfaster.com offers a good deal of information on speed reading in general, including a list of books on the subject.
I know it sounds really tempting... I just saw the infomercial myself a few moments ago. I've reasearched "photo reading" online, and can't come up with much besides ads for it and discussion forums wondering if it works. I read the book reviews on bn.com or amazon; the opinions varied widely.
I think on principle this information should be free. It probably is, too- if you look for it.

missrain

11-23-01, 06:22 AM

ps- For what it's worth, the school where Paul Scheele took a course in "subliminal dynamics", which led to the opening of the PhotoReading company, offers a caveat about Scheele and his methods. http://www.subdyn.com/photored.html

Many people (who've taken the course or read the book) say that the methods taught are standard speed-reading techniques, and that true comprehension requires going back and reading 'for real'.

ickeyisgod

11-25-01, 04:08 AM

Does anybody want to strangle the two photo-reading guys as much as I do? The guy who looks like Gary Busey if he never used drugs needs the razorwolves let out on him. I'm going to write a 300 page book about how much I want to get them and see how short it takes Mr. Photo-reader to read it before he dies.:)

cmoyer_musician

11-26-01, 08:24 PM

Soylentgreen, I wrote a research paper on Subliminal perception in college. I am well aware of the subliminal "evidence" you are a speaking of. The man who was largely responsible for the subliminal paranoia that began around the late 50's was named James Vicary. He developed an invention he called a tachistoscope, designed to flash images onto a screen at very short exposure lengths. During one particular movie showing, he used the tachistoscope to flash the words, "Eat Popcorn" and "Drink Coke" upon the movie screen. (they were flashed at exposure times of 1/3000th of a second.) Vicary publically claimed that as a result of the words being flashed Coke sales went up %18 and popcorn nearly 58% during the movie. Of course there was a tremendous public outcry, and people feared their minds could be controlled by subliminal manipulation. Several countries, including the United States, even banned the use of subliminals by advertisers.
In 1958, right after the popcorn/coke experiment, the Canadian Broadcast Corporation conducted a similar experiment. They flashed the words "Phone Now" subliminally 352 times during a popular Sunday night television show. When viewers were asked to guess the message, no one guessed correctly, but many, aware of the Vicary study, claimed to be hungry or thirsty. When Vicary was consulted later about this and other negative findings on subliminal persuasion, he reported told the trade newspaper "Advertising Age" that his original "Eat Popcorn/Drink Coke" study was a fabrication intended to increase customers for his failing marketing business.
It's really amazing how the subliminal products market has grown since that one ridiculous study. I personally have found no value whatsoever in subliminal products, and I do not believe them to be effective in the least iota except for those who are firm believers. They work as placebos for people that want so much to believe in their power that they will actively search for things that are going right in their lives to justify their purchase of the tapes or videos or whatever. I consider Photo Reading to be little more than some kind of gimmick. I imagine Paul Scheele probably instructs you to listen to subliminal tapes before you begin reading, so that the words, "You absorb information at incredible speeds. Your mind is like a sponge. You remember everything you read" will be "subconsiously" echoing throughout your brain as your eye skims over words at an incredible speed, recognizing nothing and remembering nothing. What a crock! If anyone in this forum has increased their reading speed by 3 to 4 times on account of Photo Reading, please let the rest of us know so that we can be enlightened as you are.

batman

12-12-01, 12:00 AM

I just want to say how surprised I am that this thread is still going strong 2+ months later... The evidence (or lack of it) seems to show that the Photo Reading program is no more and no less effective than the typical speed reading programs, or simply concentrating and reading with a fresh focused mind.

And to boot it also originates in someone else's program. (See my posting in this forum, in September - page 1 - for some URLs proving this.)

I again say, the whole idea of this mind-altering, or image-focusing technique is dangerous :mad: - it is along the same lines as the sorts of things that Nostradamas would do "when the spirit moved him" to go up into his attic... He would do various occultic things until the images would "appear" in his mind then he would record them. In the case of Photo Reading you MIGHT have a bit of success due to the placebo effect + the fact that you have a basic idea of the theme of what you are reading. But since no one has posted positive experiences yet, I remain HIGHLY skeptical.

I'd be more likely to buy one of the similarly-informercial-marketed weightloss products out there than Photo Reading.

Just my additional 2 cents. :o

PS: I have found in my own experience that asking God to open my mind to the truth contianed within the words has been consistently effective. But then again, it is usually the Bible that I am preparing to read, and my intention is not speed but rather understanding. So I guess that's a bit off-topic. :D

Hevene

12-22-01, 12:28 AM

Buy at Amazon.com, only 14.95 or 12 used.

batman

12-23-01, 12:39 AM

That book is authored by the "cocreator" of Photo Reading, Paul Scheele (aka thief, see my earlier posting)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563824744/qid=1009085386/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_5_1/107-5189627-1290966

But the good news is that this 14.95 version of the snake oil is just as good a purchase! An excerpt from the reviews:

The entire PhotoReading step could probably be skipped with no effect whatsoever on the outcome - except that you would arrive there faster. The other four steps are sufficient for getting a vague idea of a book's content - and believe me, a vague idea is about all you'll ever get using this author's system. Study after study has shown that the faster you read, the less you'll comprehend.

After "prereading" and "skimming" and "visualizing" that and a few other paragraphs, :p I comprehend this truth...

Questionable product
+ selfish product pusher
+ heavy radio/TV rotation
+ testimonial-laden pitch
+ optimistic public
= frequent free market exploitation
:mad:

However, new formula since 1994 (and especially recently)...

+ small percentage of Internet-savvy public
+ excellent search engine logic (read: Google!)
= likelihood that more people will be informed of the likely outcome of purchasing said product

So same old same old - BUYER BEWARE! Only the invention of the Internet, there is no more "ignorance" for an excuse!

Good luck people... :cool:

batman

01-07-02, 01:42 AM

PS:
In case anyone has not visited page "2" of this thread, I am relisting my links I posted way back then...

(Referring to the original program that "Photo Reading" seems to have been "borrowed" from...)

Oh yeah, this is the name of that full-fledged program...
Subliminal Dynamics Brain Management

As I had scribbled in my surfing history (http://batman.getmyip.com/SurfingHistory/2001/09/15.asp)

Photo Reading is apparently STOLEN from another program "the Subliminal Dynamics Brain Management Course"
as they state on this URL:
http://www.subdyn.com/photored.html

all4one

01-10-02, 06:27 AM

An opinion from Germany
Hey,

is anybody interested in one opinion from Germany ? No? Doesn`t matter.

Some month ago I bought the book "PhotoReading " by Paul Scheele (15€ or 14 $).
The book promised to read 25.000 (!) words per minute, but most the time he told you to visit some training college or to buy a video course.

I don`t belive that it is possible to read that fast. It might be that you can get the essence of a book very fast, but not by reading it.

His concept consist of 5 steps.

1. first you have to get in the propper mood,

...it`s never bad for learning if you really concentrate on the topic you are studding.

2. You have to get a general idea.

3. Photoreading

4. Activate, (you should ask questions on the text)

5.Rapid reading (some kind of speed reading)

So, Photoreading consists of 5 steps and only one of it is really photoreading.
I think you can really get faster through your reading stuff by using the 4 other steps.

But buy no way they are 250$ worth.

In general the book tells you:

Concentrate on you topic. Ask yourself what is necessary for you.
Get an overview of the book and look for the parts that you need.

that`s all I wanted to say about it (I hope I haven`t made to many mistakes, sorry for that!)

all4one

zzz

01-13-02, 02:44 AM

Want to know the scientific truth about the reading process and the credibility of speed reading courses?
Check in a library for a book by M. Carver Phd. about RAUDING.
Yes, spelled rauding. It is a term he made up to describe reading at a cruise speed at which we comprehend about 75% of the text.
I could order it from the CAL State LB library through the LA County library system.
It's the only text I read that had true scientific research conducted into the concept of reading speed.
I took two different speed reading courses before and asked and received a refund for both. Did not work for me. I could rush through text as they suggest but could get nothing out of it.
I heard the infomercial for Photo Reading and went ahead and ordered it. Still waiting to receive it.
I am only curious about what this guy has to say, that's all. They will end up refunding my money too.
M. Carver had it straight and correct, if you want to read some thing and realy understand and enjoy it you have to RAUD it. That is, reading it the way you read some thing with out paying attention to the speed but to the content of the text.
That is reading at between 100 and 300 words per minute for most of us.
I will come back to this bulletin board to tell all you curious minds about my review of Photo Reading.
Deal?

zzz

01-13-02, 04:52 PM

Oops, I had Carver's name wrong. His name is Ronald P. Carver, not M. Carver as I posted previously.
Run a Google search on "rauding"; it will bring up a listing of his work and credentials.
I highly recommend reading (not Photo Reading) some of his work. It will teach you about reading and the reading process more than you ever thought there is to know.

Rick

01-15-02, 02:43 PM

i am not very certain of this but i have heard about an experiment that was conducted in late 60s that i"d like to state:

OBJECT:
==============================================
To find out grasp of brain.

APPARATUS:
==============================================
Human guniea pig,newspaper page.

PROCEEDURE:
==============================================
A man was asked to read a small article in a newspaper and was asked to memorize it.he memorized it and then later on quoted every point with accuracy.however when asked about other articles,he was blank...

He then hypnotized and was asked to quote other articles and their content...he did it successfully...

this just shows how fast and how photographic our Sub-concious mind is...

bye!

spacebum

01-23-02, 04:09 AM

I've been looking closely at photoreading and the infomercials etc, as well as checking out some of the other speed reading products on the market. Sounds like there's a lot to it. Some of the other ones such as Reading Genius (their name is their URL also) are more scientific and backed up by facts though.

Spacebum

zzz

01-23-02, 08:10 PM

Interesting that you mentioned Reading Genius. I took this course 4 years ago.
The more interesting part is that I have just finished taking the Photo Reading course yesterday.
Readign Genius is no different than other speed reading courses that train you in moving your eyes faster down and across the page. Don't waste your time with it.
Photo Reading on the other hand introduces a different concept, that of reading with the "hole mind" i.e. , concious + other-than-concious mind (this is what Paul Scheele calls the subconcious mind).
It spends very little time with the mechanics of moving your eyes over a page.
The Photo Reading system is a combination of 5 steps.
Preparing mentaly, review the material to create initial familiarity and trigger questions, Photo Read i.e. read at an other-than-concious mind level. During this step no concious comprehension occurs. Next, you should activate with "super reading and dipping". This is going over the material once again at a fast rate, this time at a concious level, see where you feel like read more for better understanding (this is "dipping"). And last, if you still feel that you want to get more you should "rapid read", going over the book once more at a fast and even pace to pick up more comprehension. These last two steps is where Photo Reading bear resemblence to common speed reading courses.
Also, you can see that you are required to handle a book more than just once "reading it" as this course teaches you to.
The base concept behind this course is deffinitely a powerful one.
You should be so lucky to be able to master this way of reading.
I am impressed for the better (see my sceptic note posted previously in this discussion thread).
However, now that I have completed this course I still cannot race through books at 25,000 words per minute. I can Photo Read a book at 25,000 words per minute but can't show any thing at a concious level to acknowledge that I read this book.
This is the problem with Photo Reading. Having no immediate concious gratification, makes it problematic for an every day reading; at least to begin with. Additional practice may change that. Since I just finished this course I cannot tell whether it's for real or not.
I will keep on trying.

Danforthharris

01-24-02, 05:34 AM

I have read a few books on speed reading. In my experience the techniques work...but regular practice is quite necessary. I've always read faster then the supposed average...300-400 wpm for me.....after applying the "techniques" I was able to read at an average of 3000 wpm(words per minute) in about a week, and felt the potential for greater speeds....that was a few years, and I had a job that allowed constant reading(3rd shift at a gas station). I have since stoped reading as much and am back to my former reading speeds. Anyway, through my experience my comprehension improved(in my opinion) from about 70&-80%(depending on subject material) to 85%-95%. Also when "Speed Reading" I didn't feel like I was reading but taking the arrainged words and creating pictures in my mind so to speak.

Now here's my 2 cents on PhotoReading(which I havn't tried)..

"Photoreading" by title, would seem to be something valid(But not sure about the system taught). If you think about how our eyes see and our mind processes the complex images of our surroundings in an instant, It would only seem feasible that we could do the same thing with less complex "images" or words. It would just take some practice to retrain you mind/brain to do this since we are taught to read in a specific way and do so for such a long period of time before we attempt to find another way to "read". In my opininon there is no reason to sound out the words in your head to comprehend what you're reading....you don't describe a picture item by item to youself to understand what you see when you look at it. Now based on what other people have said about the photoreading steps...the idea of phtographing the text into your subconcious makes some sense, I don't always imediatly remember what I have read but when asked questions about the subject I know the answers.

Well, any other thoughts.

OrbDemon

10-21-02, 07:51 PM

I am also in the UK and have not seen the infomercial, but I did see the program that I think stuart from cornwall was refering to - the guy is called Derren Brown ( www.derrenbrown.co.uk ) - he was a magician, but had an interest in psychology and decided to use this, and his knowledge of the mind to amaze and entertain. He used to have a reconmended reading list on his site (mainly psychology text-books and such) but sadly no longer.

He explained how he had developed a photographic memory, as anyone supposedly can, and used it to 'photo read' books. He demonstrated this by memorising the Oxford English Dictionary (about 2000 pages) in 20 minutes, he then asked a volunteer from the British Library to randomly choose pages, then the collumn, then a certain number of words dow - and proceeded to recount the word and the definition. He then did it with other books (non dictionary). It seemed he did not 'know' all the info in the books, but could recall it at will from memory.

I think there may well be something in this, as photographic memories are undisputed, and if you could view the page as an image, I see no reason why it could not be recalled.

However, just because you can remember something, or have read it, does not mean that you understand it - there is more to understanding quantum mechanics than just reading a book about it. The spped at which you read does not dertermin your intelligence, and being abole to read fast in no way makes you a genius.

By the way, zzz - did you get your money back on the course?

zzz

10-22-02, 01:25 PM

I did receive my money back on the Photo Reading course minus a $20
shipping cost.
Now, 10 months after taking this course I no longer attempt to use this\
this technique for my daily reading.
I did put a lot of time and effort into practicing after taking the
course, but after a while when no results are apparent, it becomes
a waste of time.
I can Photo Read books all day long but none of the information is
available for me at a concious level. In other words, it's like I
never read it and don't know any thing of it. I do read a lot and
the only way I can comprehend, remember and process written information
is through reading it word by word. Nothing else cut it.
I've yet to come across a credible testimony from any one whose
experience is any different than mine.

daydreamknight

12-01-02, 10:40 AM

Yo, all. a couple years ago i took the P.R. seminar in Minneapolis.

Good seminar, great bunch of people taking it. Makes you feel good. They had little toys for you play with while listening. Something I wish a lot of my teachers would have allowed. Would have saved me detention time, plus the money i lost on all the books, pictures, toys that i had confiscated.

To the point,

P.R. seems to work....in a way. I get some recall, mostly images, and I wasn't able to recall specific information bits. Might be better if I practiced more, but i gave it up out of some frustration, and the fact that i just love regular reading.

On saturday morning, (semnar is three days. Friday night to Sunday afternoon) they had us flip through a standard dictionary. About a page-flip per second. After five minutes or so, you're finished with it. Then, you do a guided relaxation for a few minutes. Then, the instructor asks you to let words float up in your consciousness. Then ask if it feels like it's on the left page or right page. THen left or right column. Then if it feels at the top middle or bottom. Then, if you can, count how many entries it is from the top, or from the bottom.

We did this with ten words, writing down our locations for each word. Then we "came out" of meditation, and checked our word locations. Everybody had about 90% correct rate on page, and about 70% or so on the right column. (both of which beat the natural random chances of doing so.) I got about 60% of my words in the right page, right column, and whether near top, middle or bottom. One guy, got half of his words located exactly..., how many entries down or up from top or bottom for 9 out of ten words. ANother guy thought of a word that wasn't in that dictionary, and placed it correctly where it would be if it was in the dictionary.

NOw, those guys might have been ringers, but the seminar isn't expensive enough to provide for salaried ringers to go to each seminar. I wasn't a ringer, and got some results that were less than amazing, but much better than random. And everybody but one, had similar or better results.

On sunday afternoon, the instructor passed out paperbacks with the cover covered, so the cover, and title pages were covered...only the text was able to be viewed, we were told. We photoread the books with the text upside down. We had no idea what the book was. AFter reading, we were given paper and pens and pencils of various colors to draw our impressions, feelings, whatever "came up" from the experience.

I started drawing, and ended up with mounted men running down on people foot, slaughtering them. Dead bodies lay around. Fire was from the horses nostrils and the half-dozen riders' swords. Black smoke and more fire was on the horizon.
I felt positively sick as i drew this, i felt my insides twisting. I felt nausea, helplessness, death approaching.
(I'm not saying i drew a masterpiece, but it was recognizable as an Armageddon type pic, with the riders of the Apocalypse, etc., etc.)

Then she asked us to remove the covers of the book. IT was "On the Beach", the story about post-nuclear war world, where only Australia survived the initial nuclear exchange, but the Radioactive dust cloud slowly approaches and descends on Australia, killing everyone. I'd never heard of the book before, and the story didn't ring any bells. I've since seen the movie--decent movie, actually saw it last night for the first time.

Now, before more cynical readers barf on me here, I'd like to say that this does not substantiate most of the claims of near total recall of the information posted on the P.R. websites. It's not helped me significantly on my nonfiction reading, and I got bored with most fiction after a few thousand books.

There is SOMETHING to it, some sort of recall. However it has not proved useful in my life, merely a very interesting experience.

There's probably a way to get most information from what you photoread, however, i have not achieved that.

The seminar, home course, and books are great study guides, aside from the photoreading, which remains a great magic maybe....

machoangel

12-01-02, 08:16 PM

hi,

i have been research most of programs for photoread or fast read or whatever. which of them will help improve on fast read? anybody ever try them? please tell me if any program (photoread) did improve your read. thanks

MikeV

12-14-02, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by machoangel
hi,

i have been research most of programs for photoread or fast read or whatever. which of them will help improve on fast read? anybody ever try them? please tell me if any program (photoread) did improve your read. thanks

I am going through the book 'Power Reading' by Rick Ostrov and it is a realistic program. Rick was the top instructor at Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics years ago. He promises an average increase of doubling your reading speed after using his methods.
These claims of reading 3,000 wpm and up to the rediculous claims of 25,000 wpm as Photo Reading advertises are absolute marketing hype in my opinion. The only people that can actually read and comprehend at those speeds are people with photographic memories.
I recommend Power Reading and it even received an average rating of 5 out of 5 stars at Amazon's web site.

Hope this helps.

Mike

deceneu

01-14-03, 07:32 PM

I read in romanian science magazine from the 70's about reading very fast. They said, it was about using your visual chanel instead of the audio one to transfer information to the brain becouse it is a lot faster. The interesting part was thet they gave some examples of famous people that read very fast. Among them an american president (don't remember) and Balzac. They have been described to read very fast with total understanding. This is a skill thet would help many a lot. It remains to be seen if it can be developed by everybody and how. It seems that beyond the comercial crap there are not encourageing results( I read all the posts). My intuition tells me that it is possible. I feel I can accept information much faster that reading can provide me. It will be very interesting to hear an oppinion of someone thet works in the field of psichology. I am sure that researches in this field have been made and I woud like to hear some official conclussions if anybody knows.

Sorry about the grammar/spelling mistakes.

geocb

02-04-04, 04:48 PM

Reinstein

02-09-04, 01:26 PM

Even if you retain most of the info. in a book from photoreading, i still don't think its very useful. Why? Because there is no possible way that the brain can analyze information that fast. So you can't actually be learning anything. There is a difference between retaining information and understanding something.

tosin

04-15-04, 07:39 PM

It seems I had jumped the gun...

PhotoReading does not seem to be speed reading, and after I had waded through all of the commercial, advertising crap ( which, as an aside, contains the phrase 'As Yoda, from The Empire Strikes Back said, "Try? There is no try. There is only do or not do." ' It makes me squirm! ) at http://www.photoreading.org/ , I am convinced that this is actually quite an interesting idea, and I would even go as far as saying that I have seen evidence of this technique in my own learning in the past. The untapped potential of the brain is a very interesting subject.

Now, the problem is, why do people wish us to PAY to use our OWN brains? Im not paying. But i'll find out how to PhotoRead. I'll post here what i dig up.
down loaded some photoreading tapes on the web (i agree that the price is too high without proof)
at first was hard so i kind of gave up
but started a new j0b with loads of reaeding to be done {i,m in IT}
had to get beyond the speed reading that i am good at
using the photo reading techniques
i began to get better
cant read a page a second
but i am far enough to see that this is ultimateley possible
but this is a process not an event and will take time
at the moment i can get into state and as long as my eyes cover the whole
page i have confidence that my braiin absorbs it
and in IT u have to recall the data
i would seriously recommend it
u have to read much faster than u vocalise to get the full benefits
and u must not fight it
dont try and understand what u read until u get to the end of the page
u dont try and get nourishment from food while u eat
your body does that by itself

Ellimist

04-16-04, 04:18 PM

...I have read the PhotoReading book by Scheele and listened to mp3s of the "paraliminal tapes"... it is pretty much unadulterated bullshit. It is very mystical and vague and convoluted and all other terms also involving shady. I have pretty much determined that it doesn't work.

There is another speed reading technique, which seems to work relatively well at least temporarily - Real EyeQ. I downloaded it and burned it on a cd and played the software. It forces your eyes to move faster and your brain CAN handle it... it also charts your reading speed... pretty cool... the charts seem a little skewed because the reading tests seem to change based on what level you are on... but it seems to work anyway... try it.

kaduseus

04-16-04, 09:06 PM

Speed reading works.....
Speed reading isn't about learning at high speed, it's about not learning crap!
Most of the words in a text don't need to be learnt, alot of sentances don't contain much info.
Speed reading is about skimming over the rubish at high speed.
However when you reach something that needs to be learnt your reading speed should be slowed so that you can comprehend it.

Photographic memories are for people with brain chemistry problems, the neuro transmitters stay at the junctions for alot longer than they should. They can 'photograph' something and reproduce it, but their brains are so screwed up they don't comprehend alot of things. Thats not to say they are freaks or unwanted.
Anyone can do a similar trick. Read this post 100 times, you will create a photograph of it. Don't photograph this post, learn something useful.

If you want to learn faster, learn to speed read a little bit, and learn to slow down when you want to remember something.
If you want to really remember something, read it again and again and again and again....
You can train yourself to get faster.

I always found that i got brain lock when learning the same subject for too long.
Try switching subjects when you feel you aren't getting somewhere and switch back only when your brain triggers a question.
I found having half a dozen books on different things quite fun, you do get a natural high reading too much information.
Your brain will trigger questions for days, you can always go back to your books.

I don't think spending $250 dollars on an infomercial makes any sense.
Spend the money on those books you've been wanting to buy.
Learn everything.
Buy a 'little book of calm', just because.

Keith

Ellimist

04-16-04, 11:09 PM

00D

07-16-04, 04:58 AM

I am wandering that if the method could be used for GRE reading?I hope someone can give me a brief answer.

kmguru

07-16-04, 11:18 AM

For GRE reading:

Take a small amout of black tea. Close your ears with ear plugs and dig in....under a focused halogen lamp....

Rick

07-17-04, 02:43 PM

Nope.It doesnt help.I"ve tried this...I fell asleep...:D why dont you try partial reading 00D?...that will you out most definitely...

Bye!

Rick

07-17-04, 02:45 PM

OR MAY I RECOMMEND reading Stryder's Posts? :D ;)

bye!

Rick

07-17-04, 02:57 PM

Hey i am interested.I am giving gRE soon... i am going to need any help possible...

bye!

00D

07-18-04, 12:23 AM

Thanks!Everyone.It's a good place!

Stryder

07-18-04, 02:01 AM

OR MAY I RECOMMEND reading Stryder's Posts? :D ;)

Not sure what your suggesting there.

although the whole essence of speed reading isn't just about the ability to read but the ability to post correctly (which I'm no master at)

one_raven

08-02-04, 05:39 AM

If you haven't come across it yet, take a look here...

Photo Reading (http://www.debateit.net/stereoreading/photoreading.htm)

Stereo Reading (http://www.debateit.net/stereoreading/info.htm)

johnj77

05-20-07, 09:37 AM

I think some members are a bit mixed up. Looking over the past posts I see a lot about Photoreading, this technique has been debunked, check out the reviews on amazon for photoreading books and you will see.

Now speed reading is another matter and it has a lot of facts and positive experiences to support it. Unfortunately eyeq is not the best choice to learn because it is, as others have said way too expensive.

I am not going to go on and on about speed reading, you can do a web search to find reviews of products but I can point you to an article that I found very informative, it was produced by a software company offering speed reading software but the information in it is really good and it makes sense to me so it must be clear
speedreaderx.com/article1.htm

bulli

05-30-07, 07:25 AM

Derren Brown can do it lol

lixluke

05-31-07, 12:51 AM

LOL I found Sciforums because of this thread.
Then I joined because of the riddle thread. I could not answer any riddles unless I joined.

yinyang07

10-18-07, 11:00 AM

Thanks to all of you for writing so intelligently and in such depth on a subject that I knew little about but which appealed to me so much. The cost of a 3 day course in London is British pounds 625 plus %17.5 meaning total of 735.00I have decided after reading all the messages that I am not going to sign up for it. As one of you said, when you have to you will but more importantly, if you are inspired then it will happen..and you have inspired me to say NO! - so thank you all...perhaps I can buy if off someone...
thanks so much
:)

kmguru

10-19-07, 03:24 AM

When I joined the graduate school, I started speed reading the McGraw hill Science and Technology Encyclopedia. A few years later, I was flying back from Boston and found myself seating next to a student from MIT freshman, who had MIT jersey on and showing off. After a little chitchat, I pulled my Forbes magazine and started speed reading in about 5 minutes. The kid asked, how I learned to read like that. I said, doing many years of meditation. Poor kid mumbled a lot and said, he is going to search for a guru in Boston area to learn the meditation.:D

Donnal

10-31-07, 03:04 AM

yeah i heard it and i can do a bit like that is like this
i was taught it years ago only i didnt go to far with it
i was taught that one already knows how to read so you dont need to read the words you look for key words then put it together in your head say for instance your reading up bout a certain persons birth date well your not gonna look for the word dancing are u .....u look for the numbers
and say your needing to read up bout births well you dont look for key words to do with swimming then do u u look for key words to do with birth
well ididnt go to far with it but it comes in handy sumtimes when ur in a rush
:D

kaneda

10-31-07, 06:09 AM

About 30 years ago I bought a photo reading kit with a plastic reader and lots of cards to put into it. A section of card flashed up starting with one word at a time and finally ending with a whole sentence at a time. The basic idea was that you took in a line at a time instead of reading it word by word, left to right. It worked. I read a 140 page book in 20 minutes and remembered much of the book.

However it is the difference between walking and jogging. You can effortlessly walk but jogging is pushing all the time and if you stop, you are walking. It was a continuous effort to read the book that fast.

elsyarango

12-03-07, 08:16 PM

what is the best way to learn photoreading?

ralan

03-29-08, 10:59 PM

These infomercials are a bit of a scourge aren't they?
Like most of posters I haven't done the course but just received the materials... it is "light" on anything but anecdotal evidence, then with participants during and at the end of the 5 day intensive... would be interesting to see how they are doing statistically 6 months later... all the participants not just the ones chosen for interviews. I'm willing to be open to it's claims along with a healthy dose of scepticism... so I'll post and let you all know how I get on..
Overall view is that success does seem to rely on a lot of mental preparation before the PR (which is only one part of the system), with a great deal of NLP techniques, affirmations, focus, state change & control, self hypnosis and intention built in... can't see much wrong with learning that. As for the measuring success I'm not sure how to go about it in a scientific manner so it will (again!) be anecdotal.. there are people out there who can do this kind of thing, eg Derren Brown (who put in 10 years honing his skills), so there is a strong possibility that others can learn to do it as well. That said, some people can run a mile in around 3:43.13, no amount of training means that anyone can tho.. but results will improve... As long as they stick to the practice and discipline.. you can't learn less!
There is the refund option too...