thinking about ai ..

its very simple to be a conscious entity you have to not only be self aware.. meaning you realize you are here .. no no no you have to have so many more things to really be considered by humans to be consciousness..

lets have a thought experiment .. you have the ability to be aware of yourself .. lets say in the sense of a computer knowing that it is turned on, it knows everything that its bios knows.. clock speed how big its hardrive is infact it could even be aware of what is inside its hardrive .. this is probably not that hard to code and i believe there are programmers who would know how to program that .. its basically a feedback loop isnt it ?

but so what if it is aware of its own 'state' (how it is doing at the time) or even if it can contain memories of previous states ..

if it has no emotions or goals it is useless ..

if it has no commonsense or critical thinking or abstract thinking .. it would be considered less than an animal .. (animals could possibly have these eg hunting strategies for evading hunters .. dreaming?, being able to catch a ball requires a certain mathematical common sense)

no what consciousness really is , is a very very complex array of abilities that culminate into a consciousness..

consciousness is an emergent phenomenon from the complexity of years of evolution adding little bit by little bit.

and i think in order to create ai we need to be able to fully categorize all the 'abilities' of the brain from all the different forms of memories to all the different cognitive abilities ..

its not enough just to slice open a brain you need to be able to see what it is doing ..

and furthermore there is no soul

even if there was i believe that if they create complex enough ai you wouldnt be able to tell the difference anyway .. and then you would treat ai as if they had a soul .. and in a sense then .. they would have a soul now wouldnt they ?

-dolphin looking at cavepeople

 

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all i gotta say is...
Senses->vision/hearing
Actions-> reaction/speech.
gating network->thalamus
STM-> Parietal/PFC
LTM-> hippocampus.

 

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Strong AI... Look it up...

 

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yeah, im just wondering why no there are no projects right now whos sole aim is to 'stitch' together all the current bits and pieces of ai into one program. that in itself would be a major improvement.

 

very true ..

what about hallucination.. what part of the brain is responsible for this?

ive always thought that hallucination is one of the foundations for creativity .. but maybe not .. just a thought

 

The problem is we don’t know what generates intelligence. We are human and function in a human way.

AI is about human like intelligence.. There is a good case for strong intelligence, but we might as well try communicating with a dolphin or even a rock. (The earth rock produced us, it must be a little intelligent).

Unfortunately Intelligences is as indefinable as the soul and infinity .

As a believer in Strong “A”I (Strong intelligence. Ignoring the artificial part) it’s the way we perceive our environment that determines how we are intelligent.

 

i agree with you completely, i would add that what generates intelligence is a great many small processes interlinked working together.

infinity is infinity however mind boggling =/ .. that aside i think the soul is a metaphor for consciousness imo

i also agree with your view on intelligence/ environment but would also add that its also how we determine our subjective selfs .. using imagination that also aids intelligence.. atleast with creating new ideas.

intelligence as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts.. its parts are clusters(big and small) of neurons in the brain that working together create an ability that interlinks with other abilities, evolution has been little by little adding more and more abilities to brains and has finally created something that is "slightly" intelligent..

i think a real question would be .. assuming you agree with me.. what new abilities are required additions to the brain to create super intelligence? is it just a matter of increased speed.. that would just make what we currently think about come up faster .. do we need certain parts of the brain bigger? or do we need whole new 'abilities' for the brain that allow it to think in higher planes of thought?

 

"Super intelligence" already exists all around us.

One ant on its own is partially useless, put a million together and it can survive and adapt, and solve complex problems.

6Billion humans provide stupendous intelligence. Individual humans are incapable of understanding the greater mankind.


Upgrades??
As you begin to augment your mind and body your perception will also shift. At some point you will begin to create/do, what seems to you as rational intelligent actions, but to your lost peers you have become completely irrational, no longer intelligent.

I would love to be upgraded and on a perceptive adventure I would even give away my humanity.

 

yeah super intelligence = global consciousness ..

which specific upgrades would you want ?

i beg to differ that individual humans are incapable of understanding the greater consciousness of all of us .. you can understand at the very least how you are such a small part of something much bigger .. something that can create cities and infrastructures much larger and complicated than anything you could create. you can also understand that the will of the global consciousness is somewhat unstable .. much like a normal human.. although we can never really know which way its decisions are going much in the same way we cant decide the direction of the stock market very well .

i also wonder how hard it will be to teach ai all of human knowledge and wonder if instead we should just pick and choose and from that knowledge let ai start thinking for itself and creating its own world of knowledge for Us to learn from.

 

Id start with the senses.. Higher res eyes in the order of 100000 or more. Multi frequency receptors, from Radio up to X-rays and beyond. Remote eyes, a few hundred would be nice. The ability to route input from the visual to the auditory. Super sensitive ears with a much higher response range with inbuilt sonar routed to the visual cortex. Upgraded olfactory system, with pre-learnt responses to all known substances. Sense of touch enhanced with the ability to feel accurately, magnetic fields, absolute temperature, and an ability to feel texture down to the molecular level.

An inbuilt diagnostic and monitoring system that does not make me feel ill but tells me that my kidney is slightly inefficient, or that a virus is attacking some cells in my nose.

A holographic sensory recording system. Recording all activity in my new brain and providing perfect recall. Also providing upload and download facility too and from other like minded individuals.

Tunable nerve response timing. Giving me the ability to perceptively slow down or increase time.

Decentralize my cerebral cortex and put it somewhere safer then in my head. Also increasing its surface area by an order of a few thousand to cope with all the new input.

An inbuilt Turing machine for adaptive processing at high speed of any input or output.

To name just a few of the upgrades I would like.. My increased complexity would inherently make me more intelligent, but I would have a hard time relating to other humans.

 

hallucinations i'm guessing would take place in the Parietal cortex/occipital lobe regtion dealing with spatial imagery.

As for intelligence itself...i'm really big on the idea of a society based on reinforcemen learning....think about the children in the world and how they are taught to learn. As they get older of course the RL is less. and is replaced with individual learning and selfsatisfaction.

Also I have yet to seen a paper that models both language and vision in their entirety that is

----> Hearing/speech/vision/action.
As someone stated above i think its the link between each that intelligence arisens.

 

if the parietal corext / occipital lobe are the only things that account for hallucinations, how is it that you can .. create images from hallucinations that you have never seen before ..

hallucinations also occur in every sense that we have .. you can even argue that a thought about someone that is not entirely correct about that person is a hallucination of what is in fact the reality (paranoia )

 

consciousness is just being able to combine what you perceive with your knowledge and goals to formulate new knowledge (maby even new goals) and initiate actions.

hasn't all of this been done already ?

 

I think there are some ideas out there how human intelligence was generated. And maybe those ideas can give an insight on how to proceed with creating AI.

The key to human intelligence seems to be the increase in communication and complexity of communication. You cannot be aware of the universe, of yourself being a human if you don't have a reference. We know what it is like to be human because we communicate with other humans. A cow is part of a larger group of cows. But it doesn't really communicate with the other cows on how it is to be a cow. She is therefore isolated and restricted in her awareness.

Maybe that is where AI goes wrong????

I'm not an expert in the field at all. Basically I don't know anything, so please correct me if I am mistaken.

Are they usually focussed in the search for AI on a single entity? Did they ever try to approach this from a perspective of communication. A large set of identical AIs that can communicate with each other about themselves and their surroundings? Surely this must be one way to truly make an AI work.

It will probably not suffice to have an AI that solely interacts with humans, because the AI is not human.


anyway, I was thinking about this the past week. Since I have no knowledge of this field I was curious what you would think about it.

 

spuriousmonkey,

Yes, but to communicate, and to communicate about a topic of interest rather than babbling nonsense, you need an intelligent being to begin with. And is a human, without the ability to communicate aware? I'd say yes. You may not have communicated with your fellow species' members, but you will have noted that there are several bodies out there who bare some resemblence to you, while others do not. You perhaps also note that there are things which interact, like you, with the environment, while other things remain frozen. You also note that those who interact, at some point stop interacting and start to smell very nasty.

Given time, I'd think you become very aware. Communication however does speed up the process, and obviously makes sure you do not have to figure out everything by yourself.

So, basically, although communication obviously is a key element of our success as a species, I do not think you need it as a prerequisite for intelligence or awareness.

 

AI is a loosely defined broad range of areas of research ... why do you guys think of as something that either IS or ISNT.

there are algorithms for various tasks, the only problem is most of the suck which means they either dont consistently give good results or are very very slow.

self-awareness and AI are different things ...

 

its still a good point imho that if there were no other humans around us to observe, it would be damn hard to be self-aware on the same level.

 

alright that is a pretty straightforward .. but how do we create the senses that percieve.. the intelligence that creates knowledge.. and the goal making that creates goals? and how do we connect all of that all together into something that can create action as well.. and what type of action should it create ?

 

i think there is actually some research at mit that focuses on this very idea of social interaction .. ugh i cunt remember the name of the researcher..

 

it would take a whole shelf of books to even begin to answer that, and i certainly dont know the answer

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my only hunch is that the biggest problem will be generating new goals, in fact i dont think anybody is even trying to do that with AI.

having senses and acting on the environment is trivial, not really a matter of AI. a simple thermostat (like in your air conditioner, or convection oven) has *senses* and *acts* on the environment too, yet it might be nothing more than a bimetallic strip, not intelligent by any measure

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