The Next American Civil War

Awhile ago, after concluding the lengthy Civil War unit in my American History class, my teacher asked us what we thought the next Civil War would be fought over, assuming that there is going to be another Civil War in America. None of us could think of anything. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be an issue that divided America as incredibly as slavery did. But that is going to be changing very soon.

Slavery is going to divide the nation again. This time, the slaves aren't going to have black skin. In fact, they aren't going to have skin at all. They're going to be made of metal. The next civil war is going to be fought over involuntary robotic servitude.

There are so many parallels between automaton servants and black slaves, so many similar arguments. Do they have souls? Are they human? Are they as good as we are? They're built to work for us, so they should work for us. We brought them here, into existence, therefore they owe us for it. We brought them civilization, intelligence. Black slaves, robot slaves, it's all the same, just different eras of history. The Antebellum Age versus the Information Age.

Sooner or later, robots are going to be or at least seem as intelligent and as real as any person. But they aren't going to be allowed to vote, they aren't going to have equal representation to humans in court, and they will undoubtedly be feared, distrusted, and hated by many people. They won't be allowed to hold public office or hold any positions of authority. I doubt anyone alive today could seriously think that a machine could really be his or her intellectual, his or her human, equal. They are essentially going to be slaves. Bought and sold like commodities, destroyed when they're no longer capable of producing a profit.

I say that there will be a war, because there will undoubtedly be New Abolitionists. There will be efforts to give robots rights, to let them be free citizens. To even give them the right to vote. Almost unthinkable, isn't it? Robots--voting! Ha! People thought the same thing about blacks as late as the mid 20th century. Some still do now. I do think that the nation will divide over this, that politicians will be elected based primarily on their views regarding robots. I think there may also be visible geographical differences as well, like the north versus the south. But it won't be that way. Robots will likely be focused in the cities, just as people are. Cities will become the slaveholders, the war, or the conflict, will revolve around the cities versus the open country.

If such a conflict were to happen, it would be like the old Civil War reversed. In the 1860s, the North held many tactical advantages. It had a much larger population, significantly more weapons and supplies. These advantages almost guaranteed a northern victory over slavery. But now, the wealth, the population, and the manufacturing capability, will lie with the slaveholders, making secession from them ultimately impossible.

I think that a Civil War will eventually be fought over robotic slavery. Only this time, the slaveholders will win.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

you know what's interesting about that which I had not previously considered is that hmm.. it seems that it doesn't matter if robots are actually aware/conscious or if they even pass a turing test, etc. people don't know about how to qualify AI as alive/aware and if it can even remotely convince them, what the scientists say about it has little to do with their opinion. i imagine droves of people being fooled by a complicated algorithm that has no self-awareness whatsoever. for instance maybe you could somehow store text based conceptual stuff and put together a halfassed set of rules for conversation. how would the layman know the difference? if they decide somehow "these things are alive" and could create a movement (like the people who try to get 'intelligent design' taught in schools). the stubborn will ignore reasoning and booya, big problems. people kill over their stubborn ignorance all the time I guess. ack. i hope we can keep it together well enough to minimize the blood bath.

i also wonder if the conventional notion of a civil war is somewhat past its validity (in a nation like the US anyway). that's probably just wishful thinking.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

But if hte robots get to kind of human abilty in thinking etc, might they not free themselves? After all, its more efficient and saves on time if they can repair themselves and communicate with things and so on, and before you know whats happened your all locked into your hermetically sealed houses by remote command.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

It might be over water rights. Big cities need water, and theres never enough to go round. industrial agriculture also needs water. I read that one of the big aquifers in the mid west is emptying faster than its refilling, and CA is running short of water like it always has done.

 

Potable water can be extracted from sea water. It isn't that hard to do but does take power to make it happen. The oceans surround us so that makes it easy to get to the water to convert it.

 

Right, in that case the fight will extend to who owns the power needed to do the desalination. A nice little cartel could be formed.

 

Gutherie said: I read that one of the big aquifers in the mid west is emptying faster than its refilling
Thats very interesting, where in the midwest? What do you define as the midwest? Do you consider The Great Lakes part of the midwest?

 

I wouldn't be worried about water, or the energy necessary to convert it. There's abundant energy everywhere, and there's abundant water everywhere, and there are abundant methods of cleaning dirty water everywhere. I don't think it's going to be much of a problem.

I don't think the robots would free themselves, at least on a massive scale. Why? Because black slaves could think just as well as their white masters, and while some did run away, most did not.

Wesmorris,

It's a real challenge to prove that something is conscious. If a simple mathematical algorithim can convince people that a machine is conscious, then why shouldn't it be conscious? What's keeping it from being as real as we are if it can make just as many decisions and weigh them just as equally as we do?

 

Note that in any attempt to discern something given the same or similar evidence, 100 humans attempting to do the discerning will have different amounts of success in doing so. My point is that if you present an electronic being as conscious and ask 100 people to judge whether or not it actually is conscious, you will likely get some percentage of "yes" and "no" answers based on the qualty of the robot or whatever you're presenting. Now say there is a scientist who is way brighter than those 100 people who writes an algorith that he is fully aware is "fooling" everyone, because it is not really aware of itself, it is just programmed to give that impression. The supersmart guy knows 100% that this is the case (for the purposes of the argument). Now, most of the 100 people will surely think that it is conscious because of the supersmart dude's skill, but it is indeed not.

So as we know when it comes to politics and war, people's impression of the truth is more important than the truth.

See what I mean? Could be a real bummer. Regardless of the capabilities of the supersmart guy, the mob will kick his ass if he doesn't comply to the demands placed on him by the mob given their impression of the truth, regardless of the known facts of the scenario.

 

No, i meant down past the Mississippi over towards uummm, myabe oregon. My american geography sint great. As for abundant water and energy to convert it, hahahahah.
It depends. The non highly energy intensive methods all take time and lower output, and as for energy, yes you could get that from solar and wood and coal, but they are just that much more expensive and difficult to use. Not to mention the water pollution, which apparently isnt too bad in many areas. But really, coping with a water shortage would requier americans to reform their entire lifestyle, not as much as running out of oil would, but ceratinly heading that way.

 

The southwestern portion of the United States is already dealing with water shortages, If they can deal with it the rest of the US probably could also. The one thing I think that could throw the US in the can right now is Food production, most of our crops are GM what if some disease thats able to destroy GM crops apears and wipes out a years worth of crops? Scientist could probably modify an existing strain to be resistant to the new disease but if it wipes out a years worth of food. The US is going to be hungry and the rest of the world will be too.

 

Pollux: Awhile ago, after concluding the lengthy Civil War unit in my American History class, my teacher asked us what we thought the next Civil War would be fought over, assuming that there is going to be another Civil War in America. None of us could think of anything. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be an issue that divided America as incredibly as slavery did. But that is going to be changing very soon.
----------
M*W: First, let me state that I am one of the legendary GRITS (Girls Raised In The South). I was raised to respect the Southern Cross in the hopes of the South rising again, and I believe it will.

If there is another Civil War, it will be because 95% of the prison population is for drug-related offenses and primarily populated by Blacks.

I resent their objection to the flag I was raised by next to the Stars and Strips. The Civil War from 1861-1865 was not waged for their independence. It was about states' rights. How arrogant of Blacks to think they were at the center of this dilemma.
----------
Pollux: Slavery is going to divide the nation again. This time, the slaves aren't going to have black skin. In fact, they aren't going to have skin at all. They're going to be made of metal.
----------
M*W: Oh, come on! You're taking American History, so you must be in high school and at least 16 or 17. What the hell do YOU know?
----------
Pollux: The next civil war is going to be fought over involuntary robotic servitude.
----------
M*W: Pollux, get a life. You're still young enough to be enjoying your youth. Keep your nose in your textbook. You are living a fantasy.
----------
Pollux: There are so many parallels between automaton servants and black slaves, so many similar arguments. Do they have souls? Are they human? Are they as good as we are? They're built to work for us, so they should work for us. We brought them here, into existence, therefore they owe us for it. We brought them civilization, intelligence. Black slaves, robot slaves, it's all the same, just different eras of history. The Antebellum Age versus the Information Age.
----------
M*W: There are absolutely NO parallels between the black slaves and robots. Blacks are still human, and robots do not have a soul. Yes, Blacks have souls, and they worked for us--they worked for our ancestors, so, no, we don't owe them anything for what our ancestors did, because that was the law of the day. Robot slaves have no souls. They are machines. We can make them do any damn thing we can program them to do. They have no heart, no soul, no mind (except a computerized program). This will not be the Antebellum Age vs. the Information Age.
----------
Pollux: Sooner or later, robots are going to be or at least seem as intelligent and as real as any person. But they aren't going to be allowed to vote, they aren't going to have equal representation to humans in court, and they will undoubtedly be feared, distrusted, and hated by many people. They won't be allowed to hold public office or hold any positions of authority. I doubt anyone alive today could seriously think that a machine could really be his or her intellectual, his or her human, equal. They are essentially going to be slaves. Bought and sold like commodities, destroyed when they're no longer capable of producing a profit.
----------
M*W: Why couldn't they be bought and sold like commodities? They are inanimate machines with no feelings, no soul, no future, no past. You need to spend less time in the movies and more time reading about the Civil War that took place from 1861-1865.
----------
Pollux: I say that there will be a war, because there will undoubtedly be New Abolitionists. There will be efforts to give robots rights, to let them be free citizens. To even give them the right to vote. Almost unthinkable, isn't it? Robots--voting!
Ha! People thought the same thing about blacks as late as the mid 20th century. Some still do now. I do think that the nation will divide over this, that politicians will be elected based primarily on their views regarding robots.
----------
M&W: Pollux, Robots are machines with no feelings or affiliations. They can never fight democracy. They cannot think on their own. They are simply computerized machines. Please, please, read your history book and understand the difference between slavery of human beings compared to slavery of a machine, then get back to me. Is this what they're teaching you in high school! I'm appalled!.
----------
Pollux: There may also be visible geographical differences as well, like the north versus the south. But it won't be that way. Robots will likely be focused in the cities, just as people are. Cities will become the slaveholders, the war, or the conflict, will revolve around the cities versus the open country.
----------
M*W: There would be no visible differences between the North and the South on this issue. There would be no focus on the cities. Before any of this could happen, your robots would need to be designated at citizens. Are our cars designated as citizens? No. We may have to purchase insurance on them, and we many need to take a test to drive them, and we may need to register them, but they don't have a heart, and they don't have a soul. The only life they have is that which is sitting in the driver's seat.
----------
Pollux: If such a conflict were to happen, it would be like the old Civil War reversed. In the 1860s, the North held many tactical advantages. It had a much larger population, significantly more weapons and supplies. These advantages almost guaranteed a northern victory over slavery. But now, the wealth, the population, and the manufacturing capability, will lie with the slaveholders, making secession from them ultimately impossible.
----------
M*W: Dream on, my young friend. Or, maybe you should start writing a sci-fi novel.
----------
Pollux: I think that a Civil War will eventually be fought over robotic slavery. Only this time, the slaveholders will win.[/QUOTE]
----------
M*W: Ain't gonna happen the way you say, but the South WILL Rise Again. GRITS, unite!

 

I've never heard that term before...could you go into more detail?

No. The war began over slavery but was fought to preserve the union. Blacks were at the center of the conflict. A long train of events led to the Civil War, the Missouri Compromise, The 3/5 Compromise, the war with Mexico, the acquisition of the Oregon territory, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act. All of them over slavery. These events tested a nation that was becoming increasingly polarized over the issue of slavery and they all dealt with how slavery was to be spread into the rapidly expanding territory of the United States.

How arrogant of you to imply that the Blacks consciously caused the Civil War, that the Blacks wanted to be a part of it. I think that, had they been given the choice, they would have rather not come to America, they would have rather not caused our little conflicts. Do you think they liked being held in bondage? Stolen from their homes? Shipped by the millions across an ocean? Do you think they enjoyed their culture? They say that there's a long line of skeletons under the Atlantic, the corpses of millions of people that didn't make it, leading from Africa to the shores of the glorious South.

It's considered a college class. Are you aware of the Advanced Placement Program?

Yes, I'm the one living the fantasy...

Back when slavery was "the law of the land" (and therefore, somehow okay, you seem to be implying), hardly anyone thought that slaves had minds or souls. People did get them to do virtually whatever they wanted, as well. There will be a noticeable historical parallel. Robots don't have souls now, Blacks didn't have souls in the antebellum. Robots aren't human now, Blacks weren't human in the antebellum. Somehow it's easier to justify involuntary labor when you say the laborer is soulless and inferior.

You'd sound just like a slaveholder if you replaced "inanimate machines" with "negroes."

It's not as if there's a little passage in my textbook that says "one day, robots will replace slaves." This is something I formulated on my own.

Odd. Blacks barely have citizenship even today. At the very least, in the eyes of our rulers, they are not equal to whites. Yet, we still fought a war over them, even when they were considered property, just like cars. They were even counted as property, to bolster the South's political power, in the 3/5 Compromise. If Blacks were caught fighting for the union, they were not treated like whites, they were returned to bondage or killed.

"Patriotism is the willigness to kill and be killed over trivial reasons."
Bertrand Russel.

Just for the record, I remembered that quote by heart--I didn't look it up.

Okay, I'd like to get off the topic of environment-related Civil War because it's not something that can be predicted with as much certainty as one related to the inevitability of forced labor by machines. It's something that may or may not happen, something that is quite preventable. And it is always a possibity, regardless of the era you happen to have been born in.

We just aren't going to run out of water. Short of a Gamma Ray Burst, it's just not going to happen. If we did happen to have a severe shortage, we could always use desalinization plants. That's what the Middle East uses. There are so many ways out of this. It's not really a new ethical issue. Slavery is different.

 

Please. *gestures to keyboard*

Will do. edit: link doesn't work.

 

Like "robots" would ask humans. - Once AI is made imho there would be overnight change -in who is master and who is servant.
Humanity just would be as important to machines as ants are now to us.

I think first AI would be huge hardware clusters where AI is mostly is software - once this software can rewrite itself and concsious about how to do it it may start evolve - and it will be pretty fast . Now when it gets access to hardware resources (and practically all hi-tech is already 100% automated/logic controlled) it will be even faster. Software improving itself is infinetely better than inefficent human brain burdened by animal legacy and obsolete element base.

 

Guthrie, Water consumption is the root of their problem. I know water is more expensive in the southwest and most area's have restrictions on outdoor water use, from people I know that live down there. In the longrun I think the farms are going to be forced out of business. With modern shipping and food storage capabilities I don't see how any sort of Argiculture could be profitable in arid land. The U.S. has made it through a few bad draughts already like the great depresion era Dust Bowl. Just a warning my opinnion might be somewhat biassed here because I live next to an extremely large source of fresh water.

 

Can people please open and close their quote tags properly, it makes for much easier reading. Anyway, as to the next Civil War? Perhaps a growing division between conservative Americans and the Gung-ho "let's kill arabs" GWB style of Americans.