Do you like dictatorships?

[BigBlueHead]

Sometimes you are permitted an apparent choice, where actually there is no choice at all.

[spuriousmonkey]

I was an editor-in-chief once of a journal. I ran it as a dictator in the sense that I controlled everything. I also did most of the work. It was all very efficient.

I also got most of the credit.

That part didn't go down well with another member of the editorial team. He stopped talking to me and then produced a huge list with all the things I did wrong.

I quite as editor-in-chief. I was doing it for fun and now the shit hit the fan.

moral: dictatorships can be efficient in producing results, but people may rebel.

[cosmictraveler]

Depends upon who the dictator is. Since most dictators presume to want to help everyone in their kingdoms they don't always do so without hurting many of the inhabitants as well. If you look at any dictator in history you will see that there were many people who suffered while a few made millions or lived very well above the rest of the country. Dictators want you to believe they want to help everyone when in actuality they are only out for themselves and their friends. :(

[thefountainhed]

I enjoy the poll as a reflection of the question.

But yes, of course I like dictatorships as long as I am the dictator. Otherwise, I quite frankly like the visage that I have a choice,even if none exists.

[Stryder]

And the difference with the current governments is???

[Hastein]

All governments are akin to totalitarianism in some respects, it is the nature of any human society. In America it is the will of the people, but their veiws are shaped by the factors around them, thus limiting certain actions and opinions.

[exsto_human]

Enlightened despotism is the only way to lead a people into an existance of harmony with our fellow sentient beings. Sadly, we have expired this option a long time ago. All that remains is conformity to society or the heavy burden of enlightened non-conformity of the self.

[Hastein]

Despotism would be the ideal society in my head, but as of now it is not a reality and it I am certainly not in the career to do it. I think dictatorship has some benefits:

1. Democracy is based on 'feel good' politics, and not necessarily what is best for the community, economy or environment.
2. Democracy assumes that people understand the political climate and will do the right thing.
3. Despotism has a purpose and direction.
4. Despotism beleives in the whole rather than the individual.
5. Despotism is the best way to conserve natural habitats.
6. Despotism is post-moral.

[orthogonal]

Hello Hastein,

I agree with your list up to and including #3.

Charlie Rose (American PBS) interviewed a writer some months ago (I forget who it was) that remarked, "In this democracy we choose our dictator." I've been wondering about that ever since.

Michael

[CounslerCoffee]

I find dictatorships interesting, horrible; but interesting. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[Hastein]

They are pretty cool to watch:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/10/18/us.korea.02/story.rally.cnn.jpg

http://www.federalobserver.com/content_images/nazi_rally.jpg

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/rusarmyposter.jpg

[Joeman]

And the difference with the current governments is???

Checks and balances. In theory presidency is just one of the three branches and each branch has equal power. In theory. Dictatorship doesn't have checks and balances.

Recently I learned that Taiwanese democracy has 5 branches instead of three. That's kinda cool.

[cthulhus slave]

depends on the dictator, doesnt it?
but can any human realy do a sufficient job of singlehandedly governing any number of his fellow men?
their is no way an individual can possibly represent anymore than himself, and hes lucky if that much.
but we'll leave representation up to democracy, this is a dictatorship were talking about.
the way i see it, if a person were intelligent and unbiased enugh that they could rationaly controll and govern a state of people, then fine.
bue such a godlike person surly doesnt exhist, so i say no. in any realistic sence, i would not like dictatorship.

[Dr Lou Natic]

I would enjoy being a dictator and wouldn't mind being ruled by a dictator that was exactly like me in every way.

[Godless]

My vote would be yes!!! Only if I were the dictator. :p

Godless.

[BigBlueHead]

Your vote would be yes anyway, unless you didn't vote.

[Overlychallenged]

Isn't the poll a rather gargantuan simplification of a multi-faceted question? The word 'dictatorship' usually conjures up images of the bloody coups in South America and Chinese repression, but equally there are others that have had hugely liberating aspects to them. One that comes to mind in the present climate, is the dictatorship in Pakistan. More liberty, freedom and transperancy exits there today than under any democratic gobernment throughout its history. Not to say democracies are wrong...... like I said this is a hugely multi-layered!!!

[candy]

When I get to be dictator things will be different.

[BigBlueHead]

Welcome to Sciforums Overlychallenged!

Of course it is a simplification.
Within a dictatorship the truth can easily be normalized.
Take the children from their parents for ideological education.
Burn the schools... burn the books... destroy anything that ever criticized.
All knowledge can be destroyed within one generation.

That leaves you with one choice... yes or yes?

EDIT: It doesn't have to happen this way, but ETHICS are the first casualty of a CRISIS.

[Xev]

Within a dictatorship the truth can easily be normalized.
Take the children from their parents for ideological education.
Burn the schools... burn the books... destroy anything that ever criticized.
All knowledge can be destroyed within one generation.

Can't all of this take place in a democracy? A democracy is simply the despotism of the majority unless the rights of the individual are guarenteed.

[BigBlueHead]

Can't all of this take place in a democracy?

It can sure as hell take place in a country that calls itself a democracy.

EDIT: added quote.

[candy]

True democracy is a form of mob rule sort of like the French Revolution's Reign of Terror. The greatest gift that the Founding Father's gave to future generations was the concept of the Bill of Rights to protect the individual from the excesses of mob rule or an out of control government. We are currently trying to curtail those protections out of a fear for terrorism or at least that is what we are being told.

[hypewaders]

In the US, we presently have mob rule by irresponsible news-as-entertainment-and-palliative, distorting feedback between policy, media, and polls, creeping dictatorship by Executive Order, and two dominating parties both catering to the very same corporate financiers.

It's close enough now that Americans had best stop this trend and turn it around at this time.

[candy]

The Patriot Act was not a high mark for civil liberties.

[Spyke]

Can't all of this take place in a democracy? A democracy is simply the despotism of the majority unless the rights of the individual are guarenteed.

Even a despotic minority can do it if the majority stupidly lets themselves be convinced it's in the national interest.

[BigBlueHead]

Spyke, I agree. But, how they follow is not as important as if.

[Undecided]

I personally think democracy is the best form of governance there is, but in limited form. I do not believe that all people have a right to vote, I do not base this on power, or wealth, but rather intelligence. I am fully aware of the issues pertaining to the question of intelligence, but I think a mere examination of the key issues should suffice. For instance a short questionnaire about key issues pertaining to the budget deficit, just to make sure that they know there is a budget deficit. Or to point on an unmarked map where Iraq is located, or other such basic questions that should be answered for any potential voter. Non-partisan questions about issues, also it would force more Americans to care, and to learn. Everyone benefits.

[daktaklakpak]

I like the map pointing question. Just image how many people actually think each item through or copy each pre-selected answer off the free voting guide/postcard thingy?

[BigBlueHead]

Undecided - who makes the questions that decide if people are intelligent?

BTW, what was your vote? Yes? I'm glad that you like dictatorships; I will accept that as proof of your intelligence.

Any system can be bent. "Democracy" has already been bent. Demanding stricter controls on voting than already exist will not help the individual to be heard... it will only place more power in the hands of those who actually make the decisions.

[Undecided]

Undecided - who makes the questions that decide if people are intelligent?

I would suggest university professors, or simpleton high school teachers. Yes I'd opt for high school teachers. I don't think the question "is there a budget deficit, or do we have National missile defense, or point to Iraq" is partisan, do you? Simple intelligence, not super-brains.

BTW, what was your vote? Yes? I'm glad that you like dictatorships; I will accept that as proof of your intelligence.


Thank you, because I believe that if you really want to the job done then there is no better way. Sorry but I don't attach infantile emotions to words, then I am being a pretentious subjective prick. I am sure you could tell me differently?

[BigBlueHead]

I would not need to, unless I needed you to vote again.

[Red Devil]

A dictator is generally someone who gets in by foul means over fair, then hangs onto that post by whatever means possible. Amin, Hitler, Stalin, Blair to name but a few ;)

[Leviticus]

Dictaorship has a lot to offer but i think that it is so dependent on the person that is elected/takes over as dictator that this makes it to open to ending up with a nut case in charge who will (obviously) be difficult to remove.

Anyway, someone said they like democracy because they get a say in how the country is run- but basically - how much say do you have in a democracy? You can decide who to put in power and they then get to do whatever until their term comes to an end. OK, u occasionally get the odd referndum, but otherwise all the decisions are made by a group of people (varying amounts for different governments) with barley any influence by the people.

[Undecided]

I would not need to, unless I needed you to vote again.

Did you vote? My dictator would allow freedom of expression, but would reform the economic structure. Democracy by no means ensures "freedom".

[Leviticus]

i voted yes by the way

[BigBlueHead]

We all vote Yes, Leviticus. Welcome to the Democracy!

[candy]

The key to "freedom" is to insure that individual liberty is protected from the majority's vote.

[Godless]

Candy hits the nail on the head!! BAAANGG!!!

Good going! :)

Godless.

[Overlychallenged]

Welcome to Sciforums Overlychallenged!

Of course it is a simplification.
Within a dictatorship the truth can easily be normalized.
Take the children from their parents for ideological education.
Burn the schools... burn the books... destroy anything that ever criticized.
All knowledge can be destroyed within one generation.

That leaves you with one choice... yes or yes?

EDIT: It doesn't have to happen this way, but ETHICS are the first casualty of a CRISIS.

Yes I agree. But same can happen under a democracy. The success of a democracy comes in when u have establisehd and independent institutions eg judiciary/accountability, law and order (police force), educational institutions and free media. these are largely the protecting fortresses of a democracy. without them a democracy becomes a dictatorship of oligarchs. In the evolutionary path of some nations a benign dictor (who hopefully sets the foundations for these institutions) is a better option. Because a dictator ultimately knows he's there for a 'short' while; and thus setting the foundations for a functional democracy in the future. Or atleast that's the hope/intention!!

[ElectricFetus]

I shell speak only good of porfiry's forum, seriously! I don’t want to be arrested by the secret police and banished to the netherworlds of the net.

By the way Wellcome Overlychallenged

[zechaeriah]

dictatorships don't work, period. pakistan won't last, neither will america.

revolutions, on the other hand..

[Leviticus]

revolutions dont work that well either- if your talking about the peasents roevolt or something simmlar where the people FORCEFULLY take over. Other kind of revolutions work though. (They work better than dictatorships usually though)

[zechaeriah]

i dunno where this idea of "peasants" is coming to mind; i am most certainly not a peasant. i own a house, a car, and am self-employed, like many many angered americans...

i think because people have trouble getting along well enough to gather up the kind of courage it takes to use force on their own gov't, you may have a point. but, strength in numbers, an upset crowd unified by one common affliction (in America's case, poverty-- lack of healthcare, fair wages, jobs, and being overtaxed) can and does impact the political realm very intensly through grassroots media, demonstrations, and even in some cases, yes, force.

so i'll have to disagree with you.

[BigBlueHead]

Revolutions don't last either, not even as long as people think they do. Did Lenin survive the Communist Revolution?

[zechaeriah]

revolutions aren't supposed to last.

[BigBlueHead]

But they only leave behind another government, and another question...

Do you like dictatorships?

Yes or Yes?

[Hastein]

dictatorships don't work, period. pakistan won't last, neither will america.

Your knowledge of history is vast and unfathomable. Please, point out the grand presidents of pre-American history, show us rich and prospering capitalist nations.

[Ozymandias]

Of course I like dictatorships. Who wouldn't? *votes 'Yes'*

[Don Hakman]

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/penny1.jpg

[Godless]

Hey!! that coin has written on the other side "Police State". huh?.

Godless.

[Architectonic]

One that comes to mind in the present climate, is the dictatorship in Pakistan. More liberty, freedom and transperancy exits there today than under any democratic gobernment throughout its history.

Pakistan? Huge problems exist in Pakistan. I would never use this as a good example.

[GB-GIL Trans-global]

Hah! I'm a rebel! I voted "yes" instead of "yes"!

[Red Devil]

Couldn't you make your mind up eh? ;)