Bush blows off return to moon

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by EI_Sparks, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. EI_Sparks Registered Senior Member

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    1,716
    So it's the 100th anniversary of manned spaceflight. Private companies and organisations all over the states marked today though some impressive acts, from building a perfect replica of the Wright flyer to building and flying one of the first private spacecraft - and the first manned craft built by a small private company to break the sound barrier.

    What did Bush do?

    Well, he was rumoured to be announcing a new program to go back to the moon. NASA had plans left, right and centre, the moment people heard about it, there was nation-wide acclaim for the idea, and even I was left going "bugger - that's a damn good thing".

    Why would he do it? Well, it would revitalise aerospace industries, it would give a civilian drive that equalled that of war during the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs, it would put mankind a step further forward, it would add to our body of knowlege immensely and it would probably be one of the few good things he's ever done. It'd even appease the right-winger in the US because it'd mean them darn chinese wouldn't be the first back to the moon. Heck, even Bush Sr. made the announcement that they'd be going back when he was president, and if Bush Jr. is going to keep doing what daddy did...

    And what did he do?

    Squat.

    Nothing.

    Nada.

    Hell, Travolta actually talked about returning to the moon when introducing him! And what does that alcoholic/deserter/drug addict/corporate thief/chickenhawk/religious fundamentalist gob****e do?
    He makes some platitudes about how great strides have been made, he jokes that the anniversary would have happened on the 13th except that the Wrights were good christians (no, I'm not joking, that's what he said), and then he ends with a build-up to the moon announcement and walks away without announcing it.

    You know, this does indicate the general tone of the world we're living in because of this gimp. Want to bomb another country or bring in illegal trade practises or let corporate bodies run amok? No worries. Human rights getting in your way? Let Georgey-boy fix that for you. Problems with them pesky voters not wanting to elect you? Get your brother to fix the election, or just redraw constituencies to ensure your future election. But actually want to mount a program that would provide all the technological advances that a war brings without the casualties? That would help put the US back as a beacon for the rest of the world to follow? That would advance all of mankind in the long run?
    Naw, not interested.

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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    I'm sure if there was oil on the moon, Bush would be asking 'when do we leave?'



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  5. ScRaMbLe Chaos Inc. Registered Senior Member

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    well somebodys got to stick an american flag and apollo landing craft up there before the chinese get there with their cameras...
     
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  7. BigBlueHead Great Tealnoggin! Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, can't let the Chinese have the Moon! Why, everyone knows the Moon is US territory! Also the Sun.

    By the time the Americans get to the Moon, China will have built a dance club there.
     
  8. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    I don't see what the big deal is. Taxpayer money can be better spent than on vacations to a desolate planetoid.
     
  9. mouse can't sing, can't dance Registered Senior Member

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    Galt,

    Yes, manned spaceflight is highely inpractical and obviously more risky when compared to the most pragmatic approach: sending probes.

    On the other hand, the taxpayer's money is pumped into your own economy, stimulating job creation and advancing technology in areas now left barren. In addition, it is great PR and, as EI Sparks already mentioned, it can have the potential to rally a nation together - perhaps as much as a foreign threat can.

    Finally, I hope such a project would once again fuel international competition in spaceflight. When confronted with both US and China developing moon programs, Europe could feel obliged to catch up. Better to have a space race than an arms race.
     
  10. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    You assume that the presence of the former will eliminate the possibility of the latter.

    Anyway, it would be better for the taxpayers if we had neither.
     
  11. EI_Sparks Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry Galt, but all the research shows that you're incorrect. The US space program provided a greater return per dollar invested than any other program in the last 50 years.
     
  12. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    3,707
    EI:

    I don't see that I'm incorrect about anything. I never said that space exploration wasn't or couldn't lead to economic profit. I just have reservations about the government forcing taxpayers to fund something that had little or nothing to do with individual rights.
     
  13. mouse can't sing, can't dance Registered Senior Member

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    671
    Galt,

    I did not assume that a space race would result in an absence of an arms race. I merely stated that i'd rather have the one than the other.

    Ok, if this is your view I can see how government funding in manned spaceflight would not make sense to you. However, discussing the role and nature of the government funding in general is probably not in the scope of this thread.
     
  14. BigBlueHead Great Tealnoggin! Registered Senior Member

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    Galt... how are you ever going to become a space cowboy? You should write your congressman.
     
  15. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    The wording of your statement is what lead me to my conclusion. It was just a misunderstanding, then.

    No problem.

    The topic is the US government's apparent decision to not return to the moon at this point in time.

    EI disagreed with this decision and stated why; much of which had to do with politics and economics.

    I agreed with this decision and stated why; much of which had to do with politics and economics.
     
  16. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    3,707
    BigBlueHead

    I think technological advances will lead to a relatively affordable space tourism industry.
     
  17. BigBlueHead Great Tealnoggin! Registered Senior Member

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    1,996
    Most people can probably rest assured that when NASA goes to the Moon, it will not be for the reason that they deem most suitable.

    I personally do not believe that a renewed interest in space travel will bring about a new era of peace and harmony; on the other hand, it is inspiring to many people (whether or not the inspiration is misplaced) and should pay off in the long term in any case.
     
  18. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    4,779
    ..........and meanwhile all of us are doomed to die without EVER seeing those beautiful rings up close.
     
  19. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, poor gendanken. He can't see the rings because the money was actually spent on something worthwhile.

    (Gen, I get your point... and agree that it would be interesting to see.. but that isn't reason enough to dump so much money into it.)
     
  20. EI_Sparks Registered Senior Member

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    1,716
    Persol, the only reason you can make that comment here is because of the original space program. You may only see the rocket and the footprints - but you're missing the technological and manufacturing and mathematical and scientific developments that are necessary to bring those about. And those are where the main payoff is on economic grounds.

    And before you say it Galt, no, you can't just invest in R&D and get the same results. The developments were directly tied to the needs of the space program. Necessity, in this case, was the mother of invention.
     
  21. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Such as?
     
  22. EI_Sparks Registered Senior Member

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    The full list would exceed the maximum post size limit

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    But the specific one I was referring to when I said "the only reason you can make that comment here is because of the original space program"
    was the development of small digital computers, which had to be developed for apollo so that the apollo craft could determine it's own orbital parameters and change them. That was the reason that minaturisation of computers was developed - to that point, large mainframes were the direction research and development were heading towards.

    For the rest...

    http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
    http://spaceplace.jpl.nasa.gov/spinoffs2.htm
    http://www.look-to-the-skies.com/space_program_spinoffs.htm
    http://emints.more.net/ethemes/resources/S00000269.shtml
     
  23. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    I have to disagree with you here. Most of the technologies that people would consider 'worth it' would have been developed regardless of whether the craft was manned or unmanned. You said yourself "necessity, in this case, was the mother of invention". If the necessity exists outside the space program, somebody would already be researching it.

    Then there are items on those lists which are questionable at best. For example, bar coding is claimed to be a result of Apollo, but was developed before the apollo program.

    I don't see anything that is worth $25.4 billion.
     

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