Buddhist Master's Remains: Heart-shaped Crystals

[NEMESIS]

Well, it seems a speculation of "mine" that "I" have been going on and on about has been validated. (First let me add that "I" isn't "me", but what word do I use, my higher self?) The validation is to be found on this link:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/living/religion/7317197.htm

In part it says:

"Unlike most religious relics, typically pieces of saints' bones, the remains of great Buddhist teachers include tiny pearl-like objects known as ringsel. These crystalline beads are said to be formed when a Buddhist master is cremated. It is said that the beads settle into the shape of a heart, conch, flower or other object. Buddhists believe that the presence of ringsel proves the teacher achieved spiritual purity and that those who view the ringsel can be spiritually transformed."

Part of my theory (and it is not "mine" but was given to me through meditation) was that adrenalin as well as other chemical discharges that occur when one is in a high-charged, emotional state leave residues or tiny crystals. These crystals attach themselves to the soul which itself is a crystal. These "seeds" or "crystalline structures" are what is referred to as "karma". These karmic seeds are what pull situations and people to us over and over again. The more we react to the situation, the more karma we create until we learn the secret of keeping emotions under control and making our karma dormant.

This structure that is formed is interesting. For "I" also said by way of explaining this theory, that the heart is the way to true intelligence. This true center must be found and entered into to. In this way, the soul (which is a crystal) may pull to her what arrangement completes her. This next quote is from "The Theoretical Mathematics of the Pythagoreans":

"The mathematical productive principles therefore, which give completion to the soul, are essential, and self-motive; and the reasoning power exerting and evolving these, gives subsistence to all the variety of the mathematical sciences. Nor will she ever cease perpetually generating and discovering one science after another, in consequence of expanding the impartible forms which she contains. For she antecedently received all things causally; and she will call forth into energy all-various theorems, according to her own infinite power, from the principles which she perviously received."

"I" then surmised that if the soul was a crystal it would grow like all crystals and in the following manner:

"GROWTH PATTERNS

All crystal growth patterns are ordered. No one knows how the crystals can come together and make the formation. Crystals grow from the outside, unlike that of a human being. Particles are attracted to the seed of the formation and then build on up in an orderly pattern. "The only way for a crystal to grow is for the right kind of atoms or molecules to reach its surfaces and fit themselves into the same pattern of order the tiny "seed" crystal has." Time and freedom are needed for the molecules to make perfect crystals. Crystals can form from a solid, liquid, or gas."

In terms of emotions forming karmic seeds we have this:

"FORMATIONS

All crystals have a definite shape. For crystals to form, they need time and freedom. Sometimes an atom that doesn't match that of all the other atoms while forming a crystal gets mixed in with them. This is called a stowaway atom. It could be of a different color, or size. Some gems are different colors because their molecules are different colors. Crystal formations are formed by solutions. A crystal increases size by adding atoms to its surfaces. They can also be formed by hot molten lava. The lava cools, and crystals start to form. That is why when the lava cools we get rocks. You may not think about it, but rocks are crystals too."

Note how you have to "heat up" and then cool down. Isn't that what we do when we lose our tempers? In Kundalini, we purposefully heat up and cool down, but WITH NO EMOTION. Does this make these seeds dormant? That is what is taught.

So I suppose the question is whether this "ringsel" or heart-shaped crystal is the shape that our soul pulls forth to complete itself so that we may obtain release?

It is a beautiful notion and well worth contemplation.

Sat Nam!

[Canute]

I don't go along with your idea of soul as crystal, and I don't know anything about their appearance after cremations, but your description of crystal growth leaves out an interesting fact.

Quasi-crystals sometimes grow by the repetition of patterns that cannot be formed simply by the addition of new atoms at the boundary. Nobody knows how this happens. Quantum non-locailty has been suggested as a mechanism, but that's only a guess. I understand that it's something of a scientific mystery.

[spidergoat]

...just like my favorite cover band- Crystal Shit.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by Canute
...I understand that it's something of a scientific mystery.

Dear Canute:

If it's something of a scientific mystery, how can you be so sure?



NEMESIS

[Canute]

Originally posted by NEMESIS
Dear Canute:

If it's something of a scientific mystery, how can you be so sure?
NEMESIS
I came across it as explained by Roger Penrose in relation to algorithmic tiling processes. That's as near to the 'horse's mouth' as I can get, but otherwise I don't know much about it.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by Canute
I came across it as explained by Roger Penrose in relation to algorithmic tiling processes. That's as near to the 'horse's mouth' as I can get, but otherwise I don't know much about it.

Dear Canute:

I suppose I was asking more in relation to your disagreeing that souls might be crystals.

The Penrose concept is an elaboration upon the basic mechanism. Whether more intricate patterns are formed at the boundary is of course something else that needs to be understood. But whether the soul or the karmic seeds are changed and whether this is the residue that is left behind by these Buddhist masters is something else again.


And, of course, the inclusion of one's favorite cover bands into a conversation is always a very pertinent addendum. ;)

[TheERK]

You don't have the slightest bit of evidence for your theory. That is one major problem.

Also, like Canute said, how do you know the soul is a crystal, or that it even exists? What does it mean to say that the soul is a crystal? Do you even understand what a crystal is?

[Max Action]

Originally posted by spidergoat
...just like my favorite cover band- Crystal Shit.

Where are they playing? The Sand Bar?

[Canute]

I could accept the possibilty that these crystals may be a sign of advanced consciousness, although I have some trouble believing it. But I can't accept the possibility that the soul, whatever you mean by that, IS a material object. I would have thought that logic ruled that out.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by TheERK
You don't have the slightest bit of evidence for your theory. That is one major problem.

Also, like Canute said, how do you know the soul is a crystal, or that it even exists? What does it mean to say that the soul is a crystal? Do you even understand what a crystal is?



Originally posted by Canute
I could accept the possibilty that these crystals may be a sign of advanced consciousness, although I have some trouble believing it. But I can't accept the possibility that the soul, whatever you mean by that, IS a material object. I would have thought that logic ruled that out.

You both have excellent points and ask excellent questions. And the truth is, how the heck would I know?

To begin with, I understand the "definition" of what a crystal is. In terms of "understanding" what a crystal is, no one "understands" what a crystal is because they do not fully "understand" how it develops. It is curious to note that in alchemy, the very first thing they tell you to do is learn all about the growth of crystals. This may or may not have anything to do with the subject at hand, but it is a curious coincidence.

In terms of evidence for "my" theory, you are correct and I have none. Zippo. Zilch. Nada. You notice, however, I am not publishing it in The New England Journal of Medicine for there is no proof that a soul exists either. There is no proof God exists. There is no proof, at this point at least, that YOU exist except that I have received a post from you, but then anyone could have done that. You see the difficulty one encounters in asking for proof. Nonetheless, I see it as a valid point.

Now as to whether logic rules out whether the soul is indeed a crystal, I am not so sure. Logic has ruled out that there is a soul so if one accepts there is a soul, then further one would have to accept that it must be made of something. For the soul is the causal body according to the Greeks. Further, the chakras are broken into the divisions of colors in the same order as light passing through a crystal. It would seem if we accept that the chakra colors are correct, then we must look to see where in our body that a crystal is located in order for the outside light to be so ordered. So there is that very subtle clue. There are also different stages or states of matter. So a crystal can be liquid in nature. Note the definition for a liquid crystal:

"A type of display used on digital watches, calculators, and laptop computers. LCDs are lighter and consume much less power than other computer displays. Liquid crystals are rod-shaped molecules which spiral when they are exposed to an electrical charge. Polarized light passing through the layer of liquid crystal cells is twisted along the spiral path of the molecules. The light then passes through a series of filters which block light vibrating at certain angles and allow light vibrating at other angles to pass through; thus the color of each pixel can be controlled."

Is this not what happens in the body? Is DNA itself not in a spiral formation? Of course, this again is not proof, but we cannot discount it for it does not go counter to what we are setting out to prove. Then, of course, there is the even more subtle gaseous state.

The reason for my posting this in the first place is that this is the first "proof" I have come across in terms of crystals somehow being attached to a higher consciousness. Now this story is itself unproven as it could be bogus. So I am more posting it as an offering or feeler for others than to PROVE myself correct or my theory correct. I hope I have made this clear.

Since you seem to be very intelligent people, I would like to get a read on what you think these crystals are? Do you think it is a hoax being perpetrated? Or do you think that something actually goes on inside the body when one is enlightened?

I am curious and not in the least offended that you are being skeptical and that the theory is being challenged. I would do much the same. It just means you are intellectually alive and active.

Thank you for your astute observations.

I look forward to your comments.



NEMESIS

[Canute]

I'm afraid I don't know anything about these after-death crystals. In Buddhism nearly everything is said metaphorically so beware that they are not just another metaphor.

Certainly no Buddhist would ever suggest that these crystals are souls or consciousness. They cannot be this ex hypothesis.

Still, that doesn't seem to necessarily mean that crystalline growth and structure is not connected in some way with soul or consciousness, either metaphorically or physically.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by Canute
I'm afraid I don't know anything about these after-death crystals. In Buddhism nearly everything is said metaphorically so beware that they are not just another metaphor.

Certainly no Buddhist would ever suggest that these crystals are souls or consciousness. They cannot be this ex hypothesis.

Still, that doesn't seem to necessarily mean that crystalline growth and structure is not connected in some way with soul or consciousness, either metaphorically or physically.

Dear Canute:

Obviously whether any Buddhist would say that these crystals are souls is neither here nor there as far as the truth is concerned. It would be equivalent to saying that every single Christian knew the mysteries of Christ if there were mysteries.

As I've said in previous posts, I am not a Buddhist and rely heavily on yogic texts. They seem to be more "scientifically" based, but "scientific" is that strange word especially as regards the terminology that is used by yogis like, "lifetrons" for instance. I don't know whether scientists would agree with the concept presented by the yogis of these "lifetrons" as science. I do.

But thank you for your response. It is an interesting subject.



NEMESIS

[BigBlueHead]

Ummm... I thought that they called it a "liquid crystal" because it was a liquid replacement for the analog watch face, which was also referred to as a crystal.

DNA is definitely not a crystal, if anything isn't. Under most circumstances it's not recognizable as the double helix, being more of a lumpy mess; it only becomes coherent at certain times during the cell cycle.

Liquid crystals create dark areas through light polarization, so that's not quite as complicated as the source of human agency.

Other than the chakras thing, is there any direct speculation as to why the soul would be a crystal?

[Canute]

Originally posted by NEMESIS
Dear Canute:

Obviously whether any Buddhist would say that these crystals are souls is neither here nor there as far as the truth is concerned.
That's an odd thing to say. I agree you shouldn't take their word on anything, but that goes for everyone. But it can't be right to say they what they say is neither here nor there. Not unless you know they're wrong anyway.


It would be equivalent to saying that every single Christian knew the mysteries of Christ if there were mysteries.
Well, there's the thing, it is exactly equivalent to this. Buddhists find their own truths as individuals, they don't just obediently follow a doctrine, they just happen to agree on the truth.


As I've said in previous posts, I am not a Buddhist and rely heavily on yogic texts. They seem to be more "scientifically" based, but "scientific" is that strange word especially as regards the terminology that is used by yogis like, "lifetrons" for instance. I don't know whether scientists would agree with the concept presented by the yogis of these "lifetrons" as science. I do.
Yoga, as I understand it, does focus more on physical aspects of reality and does seem more 'scientific' because of it. However the underlying and ultimate metaphysic is no different to that espoused by Buddhists as far as I know.


But thank you for your response. It is an interesting subject.
NEMESIS [/B]
It sure is.

[spidergoat]

Part of my theory (and it is not "mine" but was given to me through meditation) was that adrenalin as well as other chemical discharges that occur when one is in a high-charged, emotional state leave residues or tiny crystals. These crystals attach themselves to the soul which itself is a crystal. These "seeds" or "crystalline structures" are what is referred to as "karma". These karmic seeds are what pull situations and people to us over and over again. The more we react to the situation, the more karma we create until we learn the secret of keeping emotions under control and making our karma dormant.

Man, you were thinking of all that during meditation?

Anyway,
If these substances that make karma crystals (giggle) are formed by emotions, wouldn't a master have no crystals at all???

[Canute]

Buddhist masters do not have no emotions.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by spidergoat
Man, you were thinking of all that during meditation?

Anyway,
If these substances that make karma crystals (giggle) are formed by emotions, wouldn't a master have no crystals at all???


Originally posted by Canute
Buddhist masters do not have no emotions.

Yes, during meditation and when I came out of it....POW! Sometimes I get things upon awaking in the morning also. I'm absolutely sure no one cares about this, but I thought I would answer your question.

In terms of your other comments, they are similar. I suppose great minds think alike?

In any event, Masters would HAVE to have had karmic residue from PAST lives. This is what determines what life, body, etc. we are attracted to. This is what pulls situations to us that we seemingly have NO control over. The more we FIGHT the situation, the worse it becomes. I mean "FIGHT" in the sense of getting overly emotional. If we fight it calmly and rationally and "OVERCOME" the problem, we can make the karmic seed dormant and not likely to bother us again. Of course, we can make those karmic seeds dormant and then screw everything up by getting overly emotional. That would create more active karma for us to make dormant. I'm sure when you get to that stage, you would NOT do this. Also they MUST have souls and according to "ME" (a majority of one?) souls are crystals. Everyone that is born has a soul that encases their fiery spirit.

Am I explaining this clearly? I hope so.

So these "crystals" would be purified, dormant karma and the soul. You see, if he was REALLY a Master (and I'm assuming he was), then he wouldn't be needing the soul anymore as he would NOT be coming back to this dreadful place anymore. No more births and deaths for him!

Let me know if I've made any sense at all. My brain seems to be on Holiday!

Sat Nam!

:eek:

[Craig Smith]

Do Buddhist masters post to the internet?

[BigBlueHead]

MU!

Eheh, sorry.

[Canute]

Nemesis

I respect your opinion, you may be right, but let's just make it very clear that this is not what Buddhist believe.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by Canute
Nemesis

I respect your opinion, you may be right, but let's just make it very clear that this is not what Buddhist believe.

Dear Canute:

Yes, let's make that clear. Was it unclear before? Is this because of the comment made by Craig Smith?

I'm sorry if I gave anyone the impression that Buddhists believe this. That is not what I meant to say. This is simply a news article that I believe backs up somewhat this theory of "mine". No one imparted this theory to me and as far as I know it's not part of YOGIC thought either. But there are always estoteric ideas kept from the masses. It would be conjecture to assume that this is, so for right now, it's a thought I had that I pass along.

There is a point made earlier about other evidence. I meant to respond to that and will when I have time. There was another post by, I believe, spookz that gave a link to some provocative material. I read a bit of it and it provided tantalizing clues pointing in this direction of crystals, souls and karma. But, again, I may be reading into things.

And, Craig Smith, I wish that Buddhist masters would post to the internet and this site in particular. Wouldn't that be lovely? I suppose there would be worse ways of getting your message across. The problem, of course, is that on the internet anybody can represent themselves as anything. I think this is true off the internet as well. So until someone who is a true master deigns to make an appearance and give us the truth, we must dig for it ourselves.




NEMESIS

[Canute]

Sorry, I was just worried about a possible misunderstanding. On the Buddhist masters thing I think the problem is that, as we all know, communicating what you mean by email is even harder than doing it with spoken words.

[NEMESIS]

As concerns water and crystals, found this interesting link. Have NO idea who this gentleman is, but he would almost have to have more validity than I do. I believe that is a given.

It doesn't say anything about the soul being a crystal and more relates to the subject of karma and crystals. It's the first thing I've found. I will continue to look.

Here's the site:

http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2003/6/2/1626.html

and here's an excerpt:

"[PureInsight.org] Dr. Masaru Emoto, a Japanese quantum physicist, performed a series of experiments on water crystals and revealed the fact that water is receptive to external messages. The formation of water crystals is positively correlated to exposure of the water to messages from human language, music, and printed characters.

Positive messages (benevolent thoughts, classical music, and positive words) when applied to water purified the water, which resulted in beautiful hexagonal water crystals being formed at low temperature. In contrast, water exposed to negative messages (such as bad thoughts or heavy metal, or negative printed characters) formed water crystals of a distorted and chaotic shape at low temperature.

Scientists have already confirmed that water is the foundation of all creatures on earth. More than 70% of the human body is water. With that in mind, it is not difficult to accept the logical conclusion that a compassionate and kind person will obviously purify the water in his body, positively influencing his life, thus making him healthy. In other words, a person that carries kind thoughts will strengthen one’s own health from within.

Following that line of thought, Falun Dafa explains that man has created karma (a substance accumulated in the body due to wrongdoing) and virtue (a substance accumulated in the body due to doing good deeds) in previous lives and carries both karma and virtue through to the next reincarnation. Let’s think about it for a moment. Since karma is a manifestation of negative messages, a person with a lot of karma will have discord in his/her body’s water. Remember that 70% of his body is water. In addition, after several tens of years in this secular world, a person is likely to have created plenty of karma through many different social interactions, which would further degenerated the water in his body. However, it is unlikely that a person feels or realizes the slow accumulation of karma or the gradual pollution of the water in his body. Furthermore, the development of selfish notions such as “Heaven destroys those who do not look out for themselves” further pollutes more than the body. When karma and degenerate notions have polluted a person’s body to an extent that has exceeded the threshold limit, the damage to the water inside a person’s body starts to surface in the form of illness. Karma and degenerate notions (bad messages) together stop the body from functioning normally and bring hardships and tribulations to the person."

If you want to look at some fascinating pictures of how water crystals can be changed by thoughts, look here:

http://www.hado.net/

Then hit the link entitled, "Water Crystals."

This is kind of scary. I'd better change my thoughts immediately!


NEMESIS

P.S. No more bad thoughts...no more bad thoughts...no more bad thoughts...

[Canute]

Yeah, there's been a TV documentary recently on a group of people clearing pollution from lakes using thought and imagination. Didn't see it but I'm told it seems to work.

[NEMESIS]

Originally posted by Canute
Yeah, there's been a TV documentary recently on a group of people clearing pollution from lakes using thought and imagination. Didn't see it but I'm told it seems to work.

Really? I must have been in my cave again and missed this. Was it on a public broadcasting channel? The Leaning Channel? Do you remember?

Can you imagine going in for a physical and them only viewing the shape of your water crystals? The diagnosis would be something like, "You now have demon crystals accumulating so you need to laugh more. And that's an order!"

Anyways, this is the first piece of evidence that seems to point in the direction of Karma being crystals. And, of course, my theory points to the release of chemicals being the culprit and I don't see where he is saying this, but it's a start.

[Canute]

It does lend credibility to your view, I agree. However, on the down side, saying that thought can affect water actually implies nothing for karma or its relation to water crystals.

[spidergoat]

Do Buddhist masters post to the internet?

Sure, why not? Dialog is dialog. Its just that they don't like to admit the master part, that would be too boastful, besides, there is nothing special about being a master, enlightenment encourages humility and reveals the essential unity of "everyone".