Your reasons for being athiest or christian etc...?

[answers]

Hay all, haven't been here for ages, but I've got a favor to ask.

If everyone who believes or doesn't believe in God (that's everyone lol) could you please post the name of your belief and why you believe it. Please don't cheat and just write, I'm athiest because everything else is wrong. I'm looking for real answers. If you could help me out on this then it would be greatly appreciated. Also could you write the belief that you are against the most and why. Here's an example:

I'm a Christian, because I've tested the truth of the Bible, and the truth in Christians, and found it not to be lies. The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Note that was just an example. I don't want a debate about that, I just want to know what you people believe.

Thanx heaps.

CyA's

[Cris]

I do not believe that there is an immaterial spiritual realm or mechanism that would allow spirits/souls/gods to operate since I cannot find any evidence that supports such claims. This does not mean that such a realm does not exist but I do not see any value in asserting that one does exist without some factual support.

That is clearly a lack of belief in effectively anything religious or spiritual. Based on that position I have adopted a positive stance towards life and the future by assuming that everything is material/physical and will live accordingly unless someone can ever demonstrate anything to the contrary.

One of the basic and common aspects of virtually every religious belief is an expectation of life beyond death, i.e. a desire to be immortal and eternal in some form. I am no different in that I also do not wish to die. My approach is to look to science and specifically biological and technological solutions as a way to solve the problem of involuntary death. This position is otherwise known as transhumanism.

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by answers
[B]Hay all, haven't been here for ages, but I've got a favor to ask.

If everyone who believes or doesn't believe in God (that's everyone lol) could you please post the name of your belief and why you believe it. Please don't cheat and just write, I'm athiest because everything else is wrong. I'm looking for real answers. If you could help me out on this then it would be greatly appreciated. Also could you write the belief that you are against the most and why. Here's an example:

I'm a Christian, because I've tested the truth of the Bible, and the truth in Christians, and found it not to be lies. The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Note that was just an example. I don't want a debate about that, I just want to know what you people believe.

Thanx heaps.

CyA's
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M*W: I believe in a higher power of pure positive energy that over the eons has been creating the universe to evolve. Because this energy resides in everything in creation, it resides in the human being, too. Therefore, humans are godlike. This is my personal belief. I am not affiliated with any man-made religious organization. I am a recovering Catholic. I am anti-Christian because its whole foundation is based on plagarism and lies.

[Markx]

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by answers
[B]Hay all, haven't been here for ages, but I've got a favor to ask.
----------
M*W: I believe in a higher power of pure positive energy that over the eons has been creating the universe to evolve. Because this energy resides in everything in creation, it resides in the human being, too. Therefore, humans are godlike. This is my personal belief. I am not affiliated with any man-made religious organization. I am a recovering Catholic. I am anti-Christian because its whole foundation is based on plagarism and lies.


Congratulations MW. It is the first step towards true understanding. You have discovered the myth and looking towards reality. My Allah/God guide you to right path. I believe that, as long as you believe in a higher power and believe in judgment day and do your good deeds, your rewards are due by that higher source. You don't have to believe in any mythical sacrifice of a pagan religions etc to be saved.

[Nehushta]

I am Pagan, because I believe that all answers to life's spiritual riddles can be found in nature and within. I don't really believe in multiple gods and goddesses as many Pagans do, but I don't have a problem with seeing the myriad facets of the All in that way (and I'm sure the All doesn't really give a hoot either). Since every one of us is a part of the All, we can each access its wisdom and power in whatever way suits us (e.g., meditation, prayer, spells, etc.). Another reason I chose Paganism is because Pagans do not proselytize, nor do they dictate to one another how they must believe.

I am most against Christianity because it discourages free, logical and rational thought in its members, and instead it breeds foolishness, intolerance and hatred. It is built on lies, death, violence and bloodshed, and it has maintained its hold on the people over the centuries through the use of fear tactics. But if all of this wasn't bad enough - its members feel compelled to infect everyone else within their reach with the Christianity meme, and then act like martyrs when you tell them in no uncertain terms that you are not interested, and you explain to them why not when they press you for a reason. They are so smug in their certainty that they have found the "One True Religion," they just can't believe that anyone who has ever heard of Jesus wouldn't immediately fall on their knees to worship him. :rolleyes:

[Cris]

Markx,

Were your comments to M*W serious or sarcastic? I can't tell.

[MShark]

I believe in a loving God who has given people the freedom to accept her or reject her. To me the story of Christianity is compelling and unique. Additionally the message of Jesus as told in the Gospels is so simple and radical that I believe it must be true.

I am annoyed by Atheists who claim logic is on their side when it is obvious that there are no known truths and all reasoning is based on faith.

I dislike very much Christians who: define god in their image, have made Christianity into some legalistic nightmare, most especially the Christian idiots with the bumper stickers that say, “God is Pro Life”. I am sure there are people from all religions and non religions that are as self righteous as bible thumping Christians but it grieves me to see the bigotry proclaimed in the name of my God

[Katazia]

Religions offer the illusion of wisdom yet instead beguile the gullible and the naïve into believing only the emptiness of desire.

Only wisdom has value and the truly wise never admit to belief in anything since everything can be doubted.

[MShark]

Katazia:

Not being wise myself I must ask for some clarification. Do the wise not believe in anything or do they believe but keep their beliefs to themselves?

[wesmorris]

Cris, I generally concur with your perspective, but don't understand your insistence on the lack of an "inner world" only based on my analysis of the following question: "how visible is the meaning of your thoughts?" It IS visible to you. Since you are the only one to whom it is directly visible, does that exclude it from consideration?

In my opinion, you can biochemically explain away the form of the thoughts, but you cannot capture their meaning, their essence except to allow for the existence of the abstract.. which doesn't physically exist. It is simply "felt" by the POV. It is consciousness from the perspective of itself and is as of such self-defining and logically fragile, yet exists nonetheless. How is this not self-evident?

In the scope and medium of the mind, how are assertions limited only to the impression of that mind of itself, possibly invalid (unless deemed so BY that mind)? Does not one necessarily create one's own meaning and as such, the existence of a world existing only internal to that individual, at least in the moment that it's happening?

[Katazia]

Mshark Do the wise not believe in anything or do they believe but keep their beliefs to themselves?The boundary between belief/desire and speculation is often blurred. To maintain a constant vigilant discipline is to ignore the real frailties of human nature. The self-check is to realize the doubt.

[Cris]

Wes,

"how visible is the meaning of your thoughts?" It IS visible to you. You are creating two when there is only one. The meaning of your thought is simply another thought. Thoughts derive directly from physical constructs. I don’t see any problem.

Since you are the only one to whom it is directly visible, does that exclude it from consideration?I do not understand the question.

In my opinion, you can biochemically explain away the form of the thoughts, but you cannot capture their meaning, their essence except to allow for the existence of the abstract.. which doesn't physically exist. Of course such things physically exist. They are physical constructs somewhere in your brain, as is every thought.

For example imagine a set of ropes that are arranged in a criss-cross pattern forming a net. Does the net exist or not? It is after all just a collection of ropes, i.e. the physical constructs. Rearrange the ropes in a different fashion and the net magically vanishes and a rope bridge appears. Does the bridge exist or not?

Of course the net is real and so is the bridge. In the same way a neural network can form to represent a thought. The thought is real but can be transitory, just like the net or the bridge.

Does that help.

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Cris
Does that help.

It is my impression that you are only looking external to the physical construct, looking at it's external shape. There is nothing to hold a direct correlation between that, and the experience of being inside that shape. With the abstract, there is as of yet not direct correlation between form and function in terms of internal experience. There even be HIGH correlation but you're basically claiming 100%. Having presumed the abstract, that seems unwise to me. I'll give it some thought.

I think what you are saying is technically amounts to a direct refutation of quantum consciousness as presented by Penrose and the likes on that there link someone gave a while back.

[Cris]

Wes,

Of course in my simple example you are the ropes. I.e. you are the sum total of your neural networks.

[stretched]

Quote Answers
"I'm a Christian, because I've tested the truth of the Bible, and the truth in Christians, and found it not to be lies. The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft."

How did you test the truth of the Bible and the truth in Christians, so that you are entirely convinced that there are no lies?

What is your definition of "New Age Beliefs"?

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Markx
[B]Congratulations MW. It is the first step towards true understanding. You have discovered the myth and looking towards reality. My Allah/God guide you to right path. I believe that, as long as you believe in a higher power and believe in judgment day and do your good deeds, your rewards are due by that higher source. You don't have to believe in any mythical sacrifice of a pagan religions etc to be saved.
----------
M*W: Thank you, my friend. Only those who believe they are "lost" consequently believe they are in need of "salvation."

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nehushta
[B]I am Pagan, because I believe that all answers to life's spiritual riddles can be found in nature and within. I don't really believe in multiple gods and goddesses as many Pagans do, but I don't have a problem with seeing the myriad facets of the All in that way (and I'm sure the All doesn't really give a hoot either). Since every one of us is a part of the All, we can each access its wisdom and power in whatever way suits us (e.g., meditation, prayer, spells, etc.). Another reason I chose Paganism is because Pagans do not proselytize, nor do they dictate to one another how they must believe.

I am most against Christianity because it discourages free, logical and rational thought in its members, and instead it breeds foolishness, intolerance and hatred. It is built on lies, death, violence and bloodshed, and it has maintained its hold on the people over the centuries through the use of fear tactics. But if all of this wasn't bad enough - its members feel compelled to infect everyone else within their reach with the Christianity meme, and then act like martyrs when you tell them in no uncertain terms that you are not interested, and you explain to them why not when they press you for a reason. They are so smug in their certainty that they have found the "One True Religion," they just can't believe that anyone who has ever heard of Jesus wouldn't immediately fall on their knees to worship him. :rolleyes:
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M*W: We certainly agree on this--nature is the alpha and omega. Everything we need for survival in this world as well as eternally in spirit form is right here for us, through us, and within us. It is ours to make it all happen.

[Yes]

I believe that everything is energy and that everything has a consciousness. Not a human comsciousness, but a consciousness related to the particular existence. I don't rule out an existence of a God, or a higher/collective consciousness that holds all the other ones toghether.
I don't have a name for my belief, but have come to this perception by meditating, thinking, feeling, investigating..well, living basically. It's the conclusion I can draw from my expereinces in this life as the form I am in.

[chalcedony]

Hi all.

I wrote this for a friend this week. It sums up why I am a born again Christian.

I grew up in the countryside of rural Long Island. My childhood memories are filled with catching frogs, eating wild raspberries and that kind of thing. From early on, I saw nature. Somehow in all of that, I began to see a supernatural hand behind it all. Eventually the years past, and my faith in God changed as I grew up, but I never doubted His existence. I began to study science, the life sciences in particular. As I learned about the details of Creation, I saw more clearly the Hand of God. I could not look at nature and see anything random like a godless evolution, even though it was taught to me. There was just too much order in the universe for it to be anything but God. Look in the sands at the tide mark on the beach. Sift it out, and look at the minute shells you find under a microscope. Magnificent creation of God.

Still though I did not believe in Jesus. To me, He was just a “great man” a “prophet” and nothing more. I searched the scriptures in vain for Jesus to say He was the Son of God, or God Himself. A friend in high school once told me that there was more than one way to God and I would find that in the New Testament, Acts so she said. I read that book so much and never once found that passage. Did I doubt my friend? No, I doubted my ability to find it. I read the truth, the truth that there is only one way to God, through Jesus, but I did not understand. That disbelief continued for many years.

I am in my early 20’s. I pray to God, but not in Jesus’ name or recognizing Jesus. I do not believe in sin, or in hell. I long for God though. At this time I became engaged and then the engagement fell apart. Broken hearted, on a moonlit beach in Mexico, I decided to end my life. It was easy, listening to the gentle waves of the Gulf of California. My friends had paired up for the night, leaving only me, alone. I nearly drowned as a child. It seemed fitting that I should chose to go out into the water and swim until I could not swim any longer. The water was warm, inviting. There were sharks, but it would only be a moment of pain, then oblivion.

As I rose to my feet, a drunk stumbled over the rocks around the small fire we built on the beach. He began speaking to me, quite frankly annoying me. He was a preacher’s son, staying at the cottages down the beach. He talked to me, 5 minutes, 10, 20, I don’t know. By the time he was done I was angry, my sense of loss was gone. I would not commit suicide that night or any other night. I was ready to fight my pain.

Don’t get me wrong, I did not accept Jesus as my savior that night, but I knew even then that God stopped me from killing myself. He was there that night. He sent that annoying preacher’s kid to stop me the only way possible from the sin of taking my own life.

Around 30, I am studying my chosen profession in medicine. For spring break, I decided to go to the Caribbean. While there I was assaulted. I needed to be tested for HIV among other things. This was a frightening time for me. I tried to tell my friends but could not. How do you speak of something so terrible as what I went through, and the fears that followed? I prayed to God, as I always have, seeking Him, yet never hearing His responses. I prayed so hard while I waited the necessary time limit until I could be tested. I was clear, no infection of HIV. I went to the local old mission (San Xavier del Bac) and thanked God in prayer.

A few months later, I am interning at a hospital and one of my coworkers asked me out to a bible study date. I agreed. Afterwards he told me that he doesn’t date anyone who isn’t a Christian because of the whole unequally yoked thing. So in my apartment, I got down on my knees and vaguely remember saying, crying “So this is what you want from me Lord? To believe that Jesus is really your Son?” Then crying, uncontrollable crying, recognition of all of my sins, and there are many. Things that I can never bring myself to ever tell any of you. I felt like a tornado had swept through me.

The next day, at work, even though I still felt all shaken from what had taken place, another coworker said that he had never seen such a look of peace on anyone’s face before. That is when I knew for certain that the events of the night before were real, that I was a part of God’s kingdom. How else could someone see peace in my countenance given the whirlwind of emotions I felt? I was saved by the grace of God and the sacrifice of His Son Jesus.

For the rest, look at me now, 14 years later. I have a relationship with God. He has worked miraculous changes in my life. I am still sinful, but I am not the same person I was before. My prayers are heard, and I see God’s Hand working in my life, more than ever before. I have seen the Holy Spirit working in my life too, leading me to do things I could never accomplish on my own. I understand the scriptures better. The Spirit guides me in my walk with the Lord. I have the relationship with God I have always longed for, and His assurances of my eternal salvation. I thank God for His grace and gift of salvation.

[Nehushta]

chalcedony,

So basically you became a Christian because of a sexual attraction to a Christian coworker who refused to date a non-Christian? I'm kind of curious how that story ended, if you don't mind sharing?

[chalcedony]

When I accepted Jesus, it was with the realization and acceptance that I would never date this guy again. This was only a catalyst to accept Jesus, not because I was attracted to someone. My whole testimony is my journey towards God, and how my life changed afterwards.

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Cris
Wes,

Of course in my simple example you are the ropes. I.e. you are the sum total of your neural networks.

Chris, where does logic 'physically' exist? It is pure abstract. So where does it exist? What about reason?

Where does magnetism exist? It is intangible isn't it?

[Cris]

Wes,

Chris, where does logic 'physically' exist? It is pure abstract. So where does it exist? What about reason?These are all thoughts arising from the physical structures and networks in the brain.

If someone does not understand ‘logic’ I can communicate that information so they can generate their own neural patterns and then we can share the same thoughts.

Where does magnetism exist? It is intangible isn't it?The electromagnetic force is one of the currently known four basic forces that help form the structure of the physical universe, along with gravity, weak nuclear, and strong nuclear. All these forces are very tangible, although we cannot directly perceive them with our limited senses.

[answers]

Sweet thanks for all the replies they were all very interesting.

I'll just answer (as I do :p ) a couple of questions I was asked.

Stretched wrote to me: How did you test the truth of the Bible and the truth in Christians, so that you are entirely convinced that there are no lies?

In many many ways. Tested the truth of the Bible by reading it, by reading about it, by reading books against it, by reading books for it, and lastly by living it. I tested the truth of Christians by simply getting to know them, not just the happy happy face they for some strange reason portray to people around them.

Stretched also wrote: What is your definition of "New Age Beliefs"?

I could go upstairs and find about 20 definitions for you, but it's easier for the both of us if I just give you an example.

'Yes' wrote in this post: I believe that everything is energy and that everything has a consciousness. Not a human comsciousness, but a consciousness related to the particular existence. I don't rule out an existence of a God, or a higher/collective consciousness that holds all the other ones toghether. I don't have a name for my belief, but have come to this perception by meditating, thinking, feeling, investigating..well, living basically. It's the conclusion I can draw from my expereinces in this life as the form I am in.

That is pretty much spot on New Age belief. If you want to read a book on this and not be bored I recommend This Present Darkness By Frank Peretti, it's fiction but based on the belief held by New Agers and Christians, so it's both informative and enjoyable. If you want to be serious about investigating the belief, I recommend Ankerberg's books on the subject. I read one which only had a chapter on the subject of New Age, but I have seen an entire book of his devoted to the subject, very comprehensive, something like 600 pages, and new as well. lol I've read a book on the New Age which was 12 years old, the age wasn't quite new in that book :p And also Anderberg's books are very reasonably priced, I got mine on special for $5 - I think they made a mistake with the pricing but it's all good. But everywhere else I've seen them for around $20 which is still very good.

Hope that helped at least a little.

CyA's

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by answers
The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Pardon me for contradicting your statement, but it sounds to me like you are most against the beliefs of witchcraft, which is apparently the "true evil" with which the New Agers are merely flirting. At least, that's how your statement comes across to me - but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[answers]

Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter :p Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most.

Hope that makes sense. :D

CyA

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by answers
Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter :p Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most. Hope that makes sense. :D
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M*W: Actually, it doesn't make any sense, unless you may have lived during the burning times. The correct word is "wicca" which means "nature" or something to that affect. The ancients of Western Europe lived by, of, and for nature which provided them with everything they needed to survive: food, a source of income from their crops and meat from the animals they tended, and medicined from plants, etc. This was "wicca." Back in those days, I guess you could call them all "wiccans." Predominantly, however, they were women. They were gatherers of the food, cookers of the food, and makers of the medicines from plants. These folks lived peacefully with nature and their fellow man. Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches," and they were charged as being devil worshippers. Unfortunately, most of those charged by Christianity were women, nine million of them! Midwives of the period were the most heinously tortured and murdered. Old women who birthed babies for their daughters and granddaughters were slaughtered for turning plants into medicines, for healing the people of their clans. There were seen as evil. There were more women slaughtered during the burning times than there were men, women and children, during the holocaust. Nine million women! New age? I think not! There is nothing new about Wicca. It's Age Old! And 37% of today's pharmaceuticals are still made from plants! Why don't Christians go after the pharmaceutical companies for practicing witchcraft? Witchcraft is a misnomer. It's a Christianized term based on patriarchal fear and hate. As a midwife and healer for the whole family, I am passionately opposed to Christianity for its evil deeds throughout history. Christianity, itself, is a New Age religion. It is by far much "newer" than Wicca! Before you attempt another post on something you are totally ignorant about, why don't you do some research instead of believing the lies Christianity has programmed into your pea brain?

[okinrus]

First of all, 9 million is not even close to the slaughter of 50 Jews.


Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches,

Wicca is an old english word for witch, which probably comes from the word wizzard.


Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches," and they were charged as being devil worshippers.

Let's see, I suspect that greater percentage of the so-called witches were not witches but were people who belonged into a mental institution.


Christianity, itself, is a New Age religion.

Reminds me of that song, "bring me back some old time religion" or something like that.


It is by far much "newer" than Wicca! Before you attempt another post on something you are totally ignorant about, why don't you do some research instead of believing the lies Christianity has programmed into your pea brain?

Wicca isn't a religion persay but a collection varying polytheist religions. In that respect; yes, there were polytheists before christianity. Nevertheless, modern Wiccan's have deluded their religion often times combining the worship of christian angels, roman mythology, and celtic believes. No tradition or legacy of wiccan's can be found. It is just a bunch of people worshiping that which is not God. All to often this leads to true Satanism or black witchcraft.

[Cris]

Hey don't knock witches. Charmed is my favorite TV program and I like the illusion of witches being good. :)

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by okinrus
First of all, 9 million is not even close to the slaughter of 50 Jews.
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M*W: What are you trying to say?
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Wicca is an old english word for witch, which probably comes from the word wizzard.
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M*W: Look it up. I know for sure you are no linguist.
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Let's see, I suspect that greater percentage of the so-called witches were not witches but were people who belonged into a mental institution.
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M*W: These people lived off the land and cared for each other's survival in ancient times. There's nothing crazy about them. You, on the other hand...
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Reminds me of that song, "bring me back some old time religion" or something like that.
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M*W: Like I said, Wicca is not an "old time religion." It was a way of life pre-patriarchy.
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Wicca isn't a religion persay but a collection varying polytheist religions. In that respect; yes, there were polytheists before christianity. Nevertheless, modern Wiccan's have deluded their religion often times combining the worship of christian angels, roman mythology, and celtic believes. No tradition or legacy of wiccan's can be found. It is just a bunch of people worshiping that which is not God. All to often this leads to true Satanism or black witchcraft.
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M*W: You are describing "paganism" like that which was found in Greece and Rome. I'm talking WAY back before this. Wiccan's worshipped nature not various and sundry gods.

Tradition or legacy? I'll leave this answer to the Wiccans on the forum, but there is an oral tradition of their lifestyle, and it's written in books. I've seen them in the bookstore, I have just never read much about them.

Who are you or anyone else to say who are what God is to everyone else? This is your problem as a Christian. You limit God. God cannot be limited to fit into your simplistic concept of God.

Satanism and Black witchcraft is something entirely different than what I am talking about. That's like you comparing Jesus to the Antichrist.

okinrus, I know you're a young kid, and I don't want to bash you, but please, please learn to spell. You ridicule the content of your posts with your illiteracy. Instead of wasting your time on this forum, why don't you take an English class or get help with your spelling. It will serve you good when you have something worthwhile to say.

[Bells]

Re: Your reasons for being athiest or christian etc...?

I am neither an athiest or a christian. I don't believe in the all mighty christian God, the God who is benevalent and forgiving.

I do believe that there is something greater out there or some greater power (and no I don't mean Microsoft). Having been brought up in a family which is and has always been Catholic, I always rebelled against the teachings and doctrines of the church. Not because I was a rebellious teenager but because they never made sense. I was the small child who would tell the nun in religious studies that the story of Adam and Eve did not make sense and that there had to be a better explanation (this was prior to my understanding the theory of evolution) and 'how can someone part the ocean? did the fish fall out? how can a tree talk? if there was only adam and eve, where did the rest of the people come from? how could adam and eve have had that many children?' etc. That nun soon asked my parents to remove me from class for being disruptive and that I was not a good catholic because I questioned too much. I thank my parents for laughing at this and being understanding that I would never be a sheep. I regarded the biblical stories as just that, stories. What I do believe in however is that there is something out there who has let nature take its course in the way that it has. I believe that something started what would then be the consequent set of the chain of events which have led to the civilisation (or lack of) that we have today.

I have never believed that if you repent then you are saved, regardless of what you have done in the past. I was never able to understand how the worst criminal would go to heaven, regardless for what they had done, if they repented. I believe that if you treat people as you wish to be treated, with respect (of others and of their individual beliefs) and understanding and don't hate as much and without thinking you're better than others, then you can be rewarded... in life and possibly in death. As for the notion of eternal bliss and heaven after death. I don't think anyone alive has the ability to say with certainty what happens after the last curtain call. Do I believe I will be judged after death? Yes I do, by the people I have left behind and also by something or someone greater than I. Christianity allows the individual to follow their religious teachings and doctrines, even if it is to the detriment of others. I could never allow myself to do anything to further myself if I knew that it was hurting another individual in any way. And it enforces this through teachings of eternal damnation and hell. On the one had it teaches that one must show compassion but on the other it shows how it treats people who are homosexual, have had sex before marriage, have had children out of wedlock, etc. There is an undercurrent of hypocrisy in Christianity that repels me, and unfortunately this is not confined to just christianity. I believe that one will be judged on how one treats his/her fellow man/woman, and the church does not always follow this doctrine, instead it has been known to turn a blind eye to people in pain and need, or itself be judgemental to people for not following the rules. No one is in a position to morally judge others for the way they wish to live their lives.


:eek:

[Bells]

I believe that if you treat people as you wish to be treated, with respect (of others and of their individual beliefs) and understanding and don't hate as much and without thinking you're better than others

I would just like to add that I do have a tendency to snap at people for this:(


:eek:

[okinrus]

M*W: Look it up. I know for sure you are no linguist.

I did look it up and that is what Webster says.


These people lived off the land and cared for each other's survival in ancient times. There's nothing crazy about them. You, on the other hand...

Yes, m*w I already know that I'm crazy. I did not mean that in a degoratory fashion. Just that what we now would call outsiders might have been considered witches.


M*W: You are describing "paganism" like that which was found in Greece and Rome. I'm talking WAY back before this. Wiccan's worshipped nature not various and sundry gods.

You have no evidence of this. On the contrary, the only early monotheists on record are the Jews and Atekenaton. Either wiccans worship one God and are monotheist or they are polytheists or atheists.


Tradition or legacy? I'll leave this answer to the Wiccans on the forum, but there is an oral tradition of their lifestyle, and it's written in books. I've seen them in the bookstore, I have just never read much about them.atheist or polytheist.

We expect more evidence than "seen them at a book store".


okinrus, I know you're a young kid, and I don't want to bash you, but please, please learn to spell. You ridicule the content of your posts with your illiteracy. Instead of wasting your time on this forum, why don't you take an English class or get help with your spelling. It will serve you good when you have something worthwhile to say.

There called typos? Often times I type fast without proofreading what I say. But while my spelling is not that good, be sure I can spell belief right.

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by answers
Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter

At least the mystery of where you've been getting your information has finally been cleared up. Thanks. :rolleyes:

The learned opinions of brainwashed Christian children aside, why do you think witchcraft is evil?

Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most.

Hope that makes sense.

CyA

As MW already pointed out, no - this doesn't make any sense. First of all, you've failed to prove that witchcraft is evil. You don't even seem to understand your own aversion to it and point to small children as your reference. Why don't you ask them what they think about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the monster hiding in their closet while you're at it? :rolleyes:

So just what is it about natural methods of healing and pain relief, or even nature worship or honoring the Feminine Divine that frightens you so much? Maybe you should read a bit more about witchcraft before you judge it so harshly. If you want to learn more, there are some great books on the subject, but in my opinion, the best introduction to the basics of witchcraft is "Positive Magic: Occult Self-Help," by Marion Weinstein.

There are also websites galore that can help you in this regard, but here are a couple of articles from two of my personal favorites:

Witchcraft FAQ (http://www.triplemoon.com/faq.html)

The Wiccan Rede (http://www.witchvox.com/basics/rede.html)

Once you actually have some idea of what you're talking about, please let me know whether or not you still feel witchcraft is evil and why.

[okinrus]

'how can someone part the ocean?

It is mistranslation. The hebrew word is for "reed" and not "red".


I have never believed that if you repent then you are saved, regardless of what you have done in the past. I was never able to understand how the worst criminal would go to heaven, regardless for what they had done, if they repented.

Because the worst criminal cannot truely repent. He has blaphemed the holy Spirit and he has no guide to lead him to repentance.


On the one had it teaches that one must show compassion but on the other it shows how it treats people who are homosexual, have had sex before marriage, have had children out of wedlock, etc. There is an undercurrent of hypocrisy in Christianity that repels me, and unfortunately this is not confined to just christianity.

Yes, but Jesus practically said everything that could be possibly say about hypocrisy. It's not a part of christiantiy but a part of man's sinful nature.


No one is in a position to morally judge others for the way they wish to live their lives.

This is christian doctrin, Jesus said not to judge, but few follow it. We are certainly allowed to judge what actions are wrong, correct?

[spidergoat]

The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Eastern philosophy has nothing to do with witchcraft. Why would you say that? Taoism and Buddhism are noble and enlightened teachings, thousand of years older than jesus, that spread peace and understanding. How many innocent, sick or mentally ill people were wrongly tortured and burned alive in the name of christianity?

[Q25]

Originally posted by MShark
I am annoyed by Atheists who claim logic is on their side when it is obvious that there are no known truths and all reasoning is based on faith

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Q25]

Originally posted by answers
[. Please don't cheat and just write, I'm athiest because everything else is wrong.
but its true!:D
I'm a Christian, because I've tested the truth of the Bible, and the truth in Christians, and found it not to be lies.
it would be funny if it wasnt so sad,
tell me this if prayer works why do we need doctors,hospitals and modern medicine?
if god is all knowing,why pray to him at all,he would know all your thoughts and wishes,wouldnt he?
bible is a book writen by humans,very primitive ones at that,who at that time didnt have a clue what makes the world turn so they invented some imaginary skydady,how can anyone believe those fairy tales in these modern times is beyond my understanding.
its so full of contradictions its obvious you never read all of it.
explain these if you would www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

[chalcedony]

tell me this if prayer works why do we need doctors,hospitals and modern medicine?
if god is all knowing,why pray to him at all,he would know all your thoughts and wishes,wouldnt he?


this person in the medical field who also happens to be born again knows that God heals just as readily through our modern medicine as He does without it. You could just as easily say why bother working since God can give us what we need. But this isnt about God giving us everything like pampered spoiled children, it is abotu us learning how to connect with God. This is also why we need prayer. He already knows our needs and our prayers, but through prayer we come closer to God and are able to hear His desires in our lives.


As far as that skeptics bible, too funny, clearly these are taken out of context with twisted meanings. Chose things in there and I will undertake in my limited time to explain to you. I just dont have the time to tackle every part of it at the moment.

[answers]

Okay, I think I musn't have written correctly regarding my reference to witch craft. I have only read about New Age, not Witch craft. The only knowledge I have about witch craft is from witches that I knew at school. One was talking to me about being a witch after she stopped being one. She said that she used to do spells and everything, until she started hearing voices in her head, and then she quite because she was freaked out. Since then the voices have stopped. Another witch I didn't know personally, I knew of her through my pretty much best friend for five years all through high school. He told me nothing much happened with her witch craft, except that one time when she was offering up a hate letter to the fairies (lol she was pretty funny apparantly) the corner of the letter caught on fire. My view of witch craft or whatever I have just descibed, is that they contact and use the power of demons. I say that this is similar to New Age, because they do channeling, I believe the power channeled comes from demons. My friend I mentioned just before, used to be into all that spiritualist stuff. He used to see peoples auras and be able to interpret them (just people walking down the street etc) he could see gosts etc... Not going to go into detail as most of you people don't know the guy like I do, and probably would just think his insane. But anyway, I guess I'm just judging witch craft from the people I know who have called themselves witches, were they lying to me? Were they something different?

Anyway CyA's

[Yes]

Originally posted by answers
My view of witch craft or whatever I have just descibed, is that they contact and use the power of demons. I say that this is similar to New Age, because they do channeling, I believe the power channeled comes from demons.


Since you used my post as an example of new age I feel I have to explain myself further.
I don't call my belief new age, I'm not into any withcraft of any kind. But I do think your perception of both new age and withcraft is totally opposite of the perception of those who practise it. So who is right? I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. But your perception of my beleif doesn't align with mine if you think I'm channeling demons or whatever.
You can fantasize all you want about what other people are doing , but unless you in fact are them, you can never know for sure, so why are you attacking another beliefsystem like this? Are you afraid that demons will come and get you if you don't act like an exemplaric christian and call everything that does not follow the bible for the devils work? Thou shall not judge?

[Cris]

But witches are good - they roam around vanquishing evil demons. Doesn't anyone watch TV anymore?:)

[Yes]

Well yes, those witches are good, and entertaining.
:D

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by answers
[B]Okay, I think I musn't have written correctly regarding my reference to witch craft. I have only read about New Age, not Witch craft. The only knowledge I have about witch craft is from witches that I knew at school. One was talking to me about being a witch after she stopped being one. She said that she used to do spells and everything, until she started hearing voices in her head, and then she quite because she was freaked out. Since then the voices have stopped. Another witch I didn't know personally, I knew of her through my pretty much best friend for five years all through high school. He told me nothing much happened with her witch craft, except that one time when she was offering up a hate letter to the fairies (lol she was pretty funny apparantly) the corner of the letter caught on fire. My view of witch craft or whatever I have just descibed, is that they contact and use the power of demons. I say that this is similar to New Age, because they do channeling, I believe the power channeled comes from demons. My friend I mentioned just before, used to be into all that spiritualist stuff. He used to see peoples auras and be able to interpret them (just people walking down the street etc) he could see gosts etc... Not going to go into detail as most of you people don't know the guy like I do, and probably would just think his insane. But anyway, I guess I'm just judging witch craft from the people I know who have called themselves witches, were they lying to me? Were they something different?

Anyway CyA's
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M*W: First, I will admit to being a witch, but in Texas we spell it with a "b!"

Secondly, I want to comment on your friend who started hearing voices after practicing wicca. I am in the medical profession, and I have seen a large number of patients who may or may not be schizophrenic or have multiple personality disorder. A goodly number of people who get caught up in ANY religion seek that religion out to hopefully find a cure to their problems. It's kinda like self-medicating but with an organization. I've seen this occur mostly in those who sought Christian denominations. Sometimes in Catholics who sought Protestant denominations. I don't think I can recall one instance of someone seeking out witchcraft. I'm not talking about people who logically and rationally have studied a particular religion and persue a different path, I'm talking about people who hear voices that could be paranoid and/or schizophrenic fervently grasping at yet another organization. It's like an addiction. The main premise of wicca is "first, do no harm." That's the kind of wicca I've read about. Ultimately, practicing wicca is the same thing as worshipping the Creator and Creation. What else is there? I hope I haven't confused you. If I did, please ask me some questions.

[spidergoat]

So, the problem with witchcraft and new age teaching isn't that they are wrong and useless, but that they actually WORK, and the work is caused by a demon????

So, what about new age beliefs that heal people, are you saying that demons can heal people? So, they must not be that bad then. ;)

[answers]

I only know about New Age and Witch Craft practices from what witches and new agers have told me. Eg. meditation, crystals that have 'power', channeling, reading auras, etc. I read a book on it, but it was old, and didn't mention any of the newer stuff like the cyrstals, channeling, etc. I'll have to read the other new age book I have before I can go into anymore detail.

But I really should read more about the new age and all that, seeing that there's a new age crystal shop next door to the christian book shop that I work in, and there is a wicc shop over the road, and then on the sunday markets there are 4 new age stalls on the street outside :p Nah the area around where I live is well known for its witches and new agers. But I'll definetly learn more about them, maybe in a month I'll come back and post some more on them when I'm not so ignorant. Any helpful links would be good, if anyone knows of them. Thanks

CyA's

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spidergoat
[B]So, the problem with witchcraft and new age teaching isn't that they are wrong and useless, but that they actually WORK, and the work is caused by a demon????

So, what about new age beliefs that heal people, are you saying that demons can heal people? So, they must not be that bad then. ;)
----------
M*W: Wicca was the first religion, the worship of nature--everything that was put in this world was put there for our well-being and survival. Let me put it this way... "Believing makes it so." The power to make things happen comes from WITHIN. (Same place where the Kingdom of God is). Demons, on the other hand, would be entities "somewhere out there." Hopefully, they're not from within. Demons would actually fear a Wiccan, because of the power they know they have within. Let's call it "positive thinking" for lack of a better term, or we could call it "high self-esteem." Now, I don't personally know any demons, but if I did, I would say that they would fear a person who thinks positively and has a high regard for themselves. These attributes would "protect" the individual from negativity, the dark force, or demons. It's only when one feels they are "unworthy" they open themselves up to demons. Demons could be something like "negativity" or feelings of "unworthiness." Demons don't have a horns or a pitchfork.

What new age beliefs that heal people are you talking about? Yoga, aromatherapy, herbal remedies, rebirthing, reflexology? Again, the healing comes from WITHIN. There are many things available in the universe to use for health and well-being: good nutrition, exercise, healthy lifestyle, etc., and there are adjuvant therapies like herbals, vitamins, minerals, aromatherapy, massage, healing touch, etc., for a wholesome approach to life. There's nothing demonic about these things. They're all good and positive and promote a wholesome lifestyle. Using these therapies is positive thinking. You're doing something positive for your body and your health. Call it new age, but in reality it's age old.

To answer your questions, I want to add that dwelling on demons is not healthy. Worrying about demons can actually create problems. It's better to focus on the positive aspects of life like healthy nutrition, healthy lifestyle (no smoking, drinking or drugs, etc.--these are demons in and of themselves). Focus on the power WITHIN--it keeps the demons OUT!

[spidergoat]

I have listened to christian radio alot recently, and there is a great interest now in alternative medicine - the same things that have been called "New Age" in the past!

[Medicine*Woman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spidergoat
[B]I have listened to christian radio alot recently, and there is a great interest now in alternative medicine - the same things that have been called "New Age" in the past!
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M*W: New Age is Age Old. We are on our way to immortality.