Mars is Ours!

[Ortemus]

Robert Zubrin and Chris McKay should be working with bio-engineers and blast the surface of Mars with mutant GREEN ALGAE now!--- because it was recently discovered that green algae MEGA FLOURISH in IRON at least if Earth becomes uninhabitable we can breathe the chilly air on Mars.

http://www.dark-planet.com/ortemus/mars/mars1.htm

Thaw Mars out in 20 years into seas/oceans
covering the planet. Then in comes greening with
plants and green algae for a breathable atmosphere. Mars is Ours.

http://www.dark-planet.com/ortemus/mars/mars.htm

Terraforming Mars Technical

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/zubrin.htm

[kmguru]

Everything looks good including the links. I say we can get serious in about 30 years. So chill out for now.....

[Chagur]

Considering the concluding statement We have shown that within broad tolerances of uncertainty of Martian conditions, that drastic improvements in the life-sustaining characteristics of the environment of the Red Planet may be effected by humans using early to mid 21st century technologies. While our immediate descendants cannot expect to use such near-term methods to "terraform" the planet in the full sense of the word, it at least should be possible to rejuvenate Mars, making it again as receptive to life as it once was. Moreover, in the process of modifying Mars, they are certain to learn much more about how planets really function and evolve, enough perhaps to assure wise management for our native planet.of the 'Technological Requirements for Terraforming Mars' Abstract (the other two aren't worth commenting on) and it's blatant assumption that Mars was once receptive to life, I'd have to say that it will be a hell of a long while before anything could be accomplished; like hundreds of generations.

[kmguru]

Let me offer another view. Talking about it will help NASA get some funding. Kids will study science in stead of LAW (we have enough locusts...sorry lawyers here...). Who knows, some of those kids may solve some prickly problems in due course.

So, I say...let us talk.... Putting a Hilton in Mars? I dont think so!

[thecurly1]

Sounds cool. First we should explore before altering the planet. Then if we do this lets make sure people will go. No point into turning this into a macro-garden without any future inhabitants.

[free_thinker]

old news scientists have been thinking about doing that with algae ever since they thought of terrafirming mars:)

[kmguru]

When Earth population becomes 15 billion, there will be pressure to find alternate food sources. That is because, the raw materials for making protein are being burned up today in automobiles. Hopefully we can terrafarm Mars to grow food and ship it back to Earth through at first using rocket ship and later, may be a stargate like device.

That way we do not have to live there (too low gravity) except a few rotating farmers.

A recent joint statement by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the British Royal Society finds that population is growing at a rate that will lead to doubling by 2050. Which means by 2100, we may have 24 billion people. If you think we have starvation now....

We have less than 100 years to find solutions...

[Twilight]

To kmguru:
Mars terraformation is not the only solution for the population growth. See what happened in China.

My question is simple... how long would it take to build a ship and take those algae to Mars? What is the necessary period of time for a ship leaving Earth to touch the surface of Mars?

[Ana]

KMGURU: I hope kids decide on a science career!

Okay everyone: I'm having 150 kids--6th graders (30 per class) start a "Mission to Mars" project. I've already gone to the government pages and gotten some info and ideas. I need 7 teams per class, each one will have their own special project and a mini-report that will go along with it. These are the ones I've gotten so far:

1. Build a spacesuit
2. Build a model Mars exploration rover (2003)
3. Build a spacecraft that will take you to Mars
4. Decide on what provisions (food, medicine,
etc.) to take, how much, and why.
5. (MAYBE) build a model Mars colony

Now I need help with 6 and 7 (and possibly #5). Any good ideas???

One year I did this project and the kids loved it. I was very impressed with their work. They even got old broken lab goggles and used their parts to build the spacesuits and spacecrafts. It's amazing how interested they are in a "mission to Mars." They have access to videos, virtual videos, internet, books, recyclable materials, and anything related I can get my hands on.....I've looked at several websites but the majority don't deal with an actual project like this (related Mars activities but not like this).

Please, anyone....any ideas?

[BLASTOFF]

Yes we can make mars ours,but how long will it take before we f**k it up aswell,we keep f**k earth up with all sorts,so yeh lets move on to another planet and do the same.:mad: :mad:

[Ana]

yup, "Space...the final frontier....(yadda yadda) in search of new worlds...." in order f-em up just like our own planet..hehehe....LOL....oh, that just killed me....oh my stomach....oh...THAT was funny. :p

[wet1]

How about a 10 year plan on what should be made and in what order.


Such as energy resources (solar, geothermal, nuceular).
What preferences and in what order. Why?
Food capabilities (how to develop a farming community).
In what order and again why.
Material resources (where do we get what and how do we
achieve the necessary energy to do so)
What do we develop first? Why?
Being as the colony is so far from earth and can only recieve
limited help at certain times it must be self-sufficent. How do
we achieve it?

[spankyface]

Exploration is a must. Converting the Mars atmosphere with Oxygen may kill any life (possible cancer-curing, genetically advanced, beneficial specimens) on Mars.

Would that also thicken up the Mars atmosphere, or should we ship our old hairspray cans there to build one up?

Still, I hope to be able to go to a retirement center on Mars in my time. :)

[Chagur]

Why not earth-side on the Moon?

The view would be a whole lot better. ;)

[wet1]

I agree with Chagur, we should start by setting up house on the moon, it makes more sense in several ways.

It gives us a stepping stone not far from home. If problems develop that we can not solve there is always the possiblity of bailout with help from home. Not so with Mars first mission. With a year to get there with any substancial payload it makes a rescue mission almost meaningless.

A moon base would also allow more reasonable cost for building materials with a mass driver/launcher to put them in orbit.

Building a moon base would also allow the experience of a closed ecosystem and where we need to sharpen our techincal skills at. There is still a lot of things we need to nail down in this field. The biosphere project did not do so well and was not all that it was to be.

Finally, we need a destination within reach of space tourists to develop and hold the publics' interest. The paying public at that. Somewhere along the line we must figure how to make traveling into space the domain of private industry and not the realm of governments and the like. As long as it remains the sole area of govenment controlled and sponcered projects the public will see the pictures and not the experience except for the rare few that get to do the mission.

[Pro. Max Arturo]

1) Roughly, try to estimate the number of gallons of water for every square mile of surface area that is on the planet Earth today. What would that be?

2) Roughly, try to estimate the number of gallons of water for every square mile of surface area that is on the planet MARS today. What would that be?

3) Roughly, try to estimate the amount of solar energy, that supplies most life on the Earth, per square mile.

4) Roughly, try to estimate the amount of solar energy, that falls on MARS, per square mile.


Even if MARS were thawed and besieged with ravenous fungals, you still would not have a planetary environment that would be conducive to anything more than designer, Mars invading fungus!

Good God!

What percentage of the Earth is desert? Take care to include deserts of ice, as well as deserts of sand. With the great amount of water that is present on this Earth, there is still so great many miles of nearly unihabitable areas on the Earth, except for the smallest lifeforms.

MARS has so much less water and gases than the Earth that one must be able to see that the sparse pockets of moisture on MARS cannot ever support life that is more developed than a genetically developed super strain of fungus!

Without a lot more water, MARS simply will never have a breathable atmosphere. This because the liquids (condensed gases) of a planet are required to be in huge amounts and literally spilling off of a habitable planet, into space. MARS doesn't even have a fraction of the amount neccessary. Irregardless of the genetically developed strains, no fungus or bacteria will do any kind of terraforming until there is sufficient water and gases on MARS. You can't build a Earth-like ecosystem without them.

MARS woild have to be pummeled by many gas laden comets before there would be enough of these life giving (energy converting) gases/water. Otherwise, mankind will be living on the planet Mars, under a Glass Dome.

[Chagur]

Decent post. Glad to see you back (even though you are 'hocky' :D )

Moon is the way to go (and learn).

[esp]

Blastoff, Ana;

How can we compare the destruction and rape of Earth, a living breathing world with rich variety in flora and fauna with the adaptation of a lifeless hunk of rock to improve the quality of life for fifteen billion people?

[BLASTOFF]

Mars is ours, ok if it is ours do we really want it,and if so what are we going to do with it.

[esp]

If mars is ours then we do with it what ever and as much as we can.
In an environ where the actions of humans are not going to affect any form of post prokaryotic life, would not the failure to maximise it's potential constitute a massive failure of global and inter-global efficiency?
(Potentially!)
There must at least be some degree of geological and matalurgical potential.
The point is that were going there, no two ways about it.
We will possess a clearer picture of it's potentials when we get ther, but it's a whole PLANET.
There must be something.

[mato]

very optimistic, now can we all calculate the death toll after ww3 and the amount of FADING rescources it will take to get to mars, let alone the interplanetary wars that are bound to pop up. Look at how well imperialism has faired so far how do you think it will go in amplified conditions compared to that of earth?! That and the earth is being raveged by man to the point of complete destruction within this century. The first step is the space station then the moon, then minning/collony ventures to the astroid belt and then finally a mars farming colony, which is possibly the worst political mistake any one will ever make. Mars will rise up eventually it's only a matter of time.

There is a simple solution to starvation, war! overpopullation, not on my watch! Man will not reach 10 bill.

Oh and I hereby declare my intent to make earth a nature preserve (what little of her is left that is) closed to human inhabbitance! So Get off My Planet!

[Pollux V]

Sounds like a good idea mato.

Some of you have said that we'll run out of food in the future. Needless to say you have to know that there is still AT LEAST 3/4 of the world left that hasn't been touched by human populations. It is the ocean. Simply establishing granaries and farms on artificial or real islands in the South Pacific could feed Earth forever. Genetecists could make pigs the size of homes and corn as tall as skyscrapers. Imagine the implications. You have nothing to worry about. The future will guide you...

I think slamming mars around with algae should be done immediately, right now, send off the rocket in a few months or something. Terraformation is the future of planet colonization. It's always been a dream of mine to go to Europa and see a Jovian planetset.

You really have to think about the acceleration of our technology in the last century. In the previous millenia nothing really changed, but now new devices are invented every year and are availible to the average person in under a decade.

[kmguru]

Those who say that we are running out of this or that forget that the sum total of matter on earth is fairly constant. As soon as we learn to make matter replicators using nanotechnology, we could be in good shape. So, I say let us start the design process now.

[esp]

kmguru
We can already teleport light.
We're some way off from the ability to transport matter.
Scanning patterns as complex as those necessary to create a data file for replication aren't even conceivable.
And what about Heisenbergs' uncertainty principal which is to do with quantum level structure?

It will happen just not in our life time.
This is no reason not to try :D

mato ,
Spot on sir.
Save the earth while we can.
Let's look into aquisition of Martian resources :D

[Avatar]

I see tht you all have discussed the scientifical side, but what about social/political.

Let's say -> US builds a ship and goes to Mars. Can it proclaim all Mars its teritory. Americans would say - YES, but what if by some miracle Russians or Japanese do it?? How will we govern Mars -> Take orders from Earth?(if there is a large colony there) And as seen on Earth all colonies longer or sooner proclaim their independence. I think tht we should make a senate 1/3 of Earthlings, 2/3 of Marsians. Maybe it would be one step forward to Senate of Solarian Federation:cool:

About scientifical side -> we need moon colony first, or at least a launchpad, because its a lot cheaper thn on Earht to send a ship to space. And about food providing Mars to Earth. Won't it be very expensive to do tht?!:rolleyes:

Bye!

[Xev]

Mars is morally ours.....and I love the idea of colonization, but I think we need to focus on earth.

Colonizing mars will not solve over-population, it will not be a very effective way of finding new products (spinoffs), it will not be an effective way of stimulating interest in science (much more effective to fund science education).

When we go to mars, we must do it to explore and to branch out. We must do this because we value exploration and a foothold on the stars, not because we think there will be immediate practical benefits.

Let us focus on earth, not neglect mars, but let us put our home in order before making a new one.

And then...

AD ASTRA!

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by BLASTOFF:
Yes we can make mars ours,but how long will it take before we f**k it up aswell,we keep f**k earth up with all sorts,so yeh lets move on to another planet and do the same.

Yes... we have to pay attention on that.

Xev has a point too... we should concentrate on Earth...
But we can do both!

We could begin terraforming Mars now, move there in some years and let scientists here reforming Earth. We give our beautiful Mother a rest and a good shower, and find a friend outside...

Let's get out of our Mother's womb and help her recovering from her pregnancy! :)

Time for the bird to fly away from the nest... ;)

Love,
Nelson