View Full Version : Mars!
We need to get off of this godforsaken planet, and terraform Mars. This is being slowed very much by politicians and ignorant people who do not understand the importance of the survival of the human race. We have to change that or all die in a large explosion of some sort. Please post any ideas you have to accellerate the colonization of Mars and/or informing ignorant people.
I was thinking, lead weighs a lot but is a very good radiation stopper. To defeat the cost of getting it in orbit, we could shoot it out of one of those gigantic satellite guns we used to have and just manufacture the space ship in orbit.
I think we need a space elevator or a couple then everything will be cake, plus we need to start mining the Helium ^3 which is on the moon since ion engines made from this could make a mars to earth trip a week long affair instead of a 6- month one. We Should start building the Ares!
Epitectus
03-07-01, 05:53 PM
THE ARC
milojohn5
03-15-01, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by tetra
We need to get off of this godforsaken planet, and terraform Mars. . . .
I was thinking, lead weighs a lot but is a very good radiation stopper. To defeat the cost of getting it in orbit, we could shoot it out of one of those gigantic satellite guns we used to have and just manufacture the space ship in orbit.
I was thinking that lead is such a soft metal that we'd be crushed (along with the ship) if we tried to enter orbit or make a landing in it. I'm not sure though.
there are always ways around things like that
Malaclypse
03-19-01, 10:41 AM
I wouldn't want to poison another planet with humans.....PLEASE! Do the solor system a favor, eh?
papa_smirf
04-25-01, 09:06 PM
The problem that I know of for terraforming Mars is that the atmosphere that we make would get blown away. This is because Mars has a very weak magnetic field surrounding it. In result the upper atmosphere is ionized and blown away by the sun. Maybe if fusion becomes common place we could surround it in a huge electromagnetic field, but not for a while yet. Till than we'd be wasting our time since anything we'd do would be undone by the son.
It's a fine dream, but I gotta agree with papa_smirf. No magnetic field, no permanent terraform. One of the early martian satellites to explore Mars measured the loss of atmosphere while in orbit. A good portion was attributed to the solar winds.
ripleofdeath
06-27-01, 07:11 AM
hey all
if they havnt already they should send up some of those nuke powerd drilling machines and make underground caves on it to live in and use as a space port/refuiling/maintenence/whatever...
how could we find out if they have already?
how could we find out that they havnt?
:D
thoughts.....?
groove on all :)
fsbriggs
07-01-01, 12:18 AM
there are plenty of reasons to go to mars, but escaping earth for survival's sake isnt a very good one. it will always be easier to "fix" earth than to terraform mars, though even better (and easier) than that would be just to not fuck it up in the first place.
papa_smirf
07-01-01, 01:37 AM
Hindsight is 20/20 for the masses. Even if a rare few have 20/20 foresight, we are still stuck in a perpetual loop of corrections; thus, us with foresight should enslave the masses :)
ripleofdeath
07-01-01, 06:17 AM
ok cool concept "papa"
no state your belief on the issues of death penalty and mentaly ill and child dicipline!
show how superior you are by wowing us (more specificaly me :D )
not ness on this thread :/
hells teath!=make a new one :D
maybe called qualities of a supreem race :)
or politics of the future
i dunno im try to make em up too :)
ignorant people by their very nature never understand what is good for anyone little-own themselfs :)
groove on all :)
papa_smirf
07-01-01, 01:46 PM
haha, little steps.
Be careful what you wish for Papa Smurf, You may be the first enslaved!
papa_smirf
07-01-01, 07:03 PM
Wow. Somehow I turned a legitimate discussion about colonizing Mars into one on enslaving people (Mainly me ;)). I'll be more careful of what I start from now on.
thecurly1
07-02-01, 04:33 PM
Getting to Mars will be costly, I think this is how it should be done. This may take a while.
To get to Mars, with even a few people or a hundred requires money. Lots of money, billions of dollars. This can be made easier by turning this into an international project between the US, ESA, Canada, Japan, and maybe a few smaller countries. Then again this will come out of taxpayers butts. A smarter way of getting money, and opening space for exploration would be to have NASA share its experience with companies in the private sector and develop limited tourism in space. Over a ten year period the investment would have been recouped and enough money would have been made to take the burden off the people.
We'd have to set up a colony of at least 100 people on Mars to set up a very basic foundation. The best and biggest would be chosen which would have experience in lots of scientific and political science fields. Someone will have to be able to run some sort of grass roots government to keep them together.
People went to the New World not because of adventure, or even real estate it was because money could be made, i.e. loads of natural resources. This will have to be true on Mars, it may be romantic to think that all we need is a pioneering spirt, but we also need to make some money off this or it will become a black hole of the nation's cash. We'd have to set up a system of transporting precious metals such as platinum, titanium, gold, silver, diamonds and maybe even uranium back to Earth. There is plenty of iron ore down here, so we wouldn't buy it from Mars until our resources run out.
Once the colony has been set up, a small economy is formed than there should be further mining operations done on Mars. A widespread terraforming is a bad idea at the start, you don't want to invest billions and have it fail. A smarter idea would be to try terraforming a two or three mile stretch of sealed off canyon which could house thousands of colonists. If this worked for a few years, and enough scientific data was collected than we could begin terraforming.
Theres a small, and relatively unthough of of problem. Mars, at the fastest, is months from Earth. It would take longer to get there than it did for 18th century Britain to get to America. In simpler terms if there was a rebellion, it would be difficult to stop. This is why there must be a fairly stern governing system on Mars. Not harsh, but firm enough to not allow independence of the colony. After decades of Mars-Earth interaction Mars could have a huge effect on our economy, we don't want them itching for independence and throwing us into the Second Great Depression.
If we colonize and I believe we should we should do it, carefully, thoughtfully, and with the intention of spreading humanities seed throughout the Solar System for all of eternity.
I couldn't resist the one liner, Papa Smirf. I had hoped you would take it in stride as such. As appearently you have.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Establish a colony on the moon first! Same sort of problems but a lot closer.
Besides, considering what an abject failure the attempt to create an enclosed ecosystem right here on Earth was a few years ago, I doubt that even a moon colony would work. Hell, we're still trying to work on the problems on Space Station Alpha (the International Space Station) which is only a couple of hundred miles above us.
papa_smirf
07-03-01, 01:10 AM
I think the biggest problem with the enclosed ecosystems of the past and the ones currently under development at NASA is the size. From what I've seen we grossly underestimate the size of an ecosystem needed to easily support a single human, much less a hundred of them. Just from some estimation I figure that right now a one square mile peace of land/water on earth supports around 20 people. This includes the air/water beneath and above that area. What we're trying to do is stick 5 people or so in a room sized tin can and have it be at least semi self-supporting. This is not an easy task, even at our level of technology. It is definetely a needed skill if we are to spread throughout the solar system as we may want to do.
Maybe a nuclear powered algae cell making oxygen and filtering liquids?
ripleofdeath
07-03-01, 04:58 AM
:)
hey all
at the risk of crossing frontiers on the boards i believe the ecospheres were actualy built to fail!
this can only be the rational and logical conclusion given the
knoledge at that time and the effort they made!
until the usa is ready and able to control the project and who will go in it they will not let it commence!
just take a second to think about it!
if they could calculate the physics to land on the moon then they can evalute and calculate the production and thus needs of plants to support humans!
its the old rose cloured glasses of self fulfilling lazzyness to save
brains and people from feeling responsible :)
this mentallity helps nurture the
"we are soo small and have no ability to change the world"
just the way they want it :D
groove on all :)
papa_smirf
07-03-01, 12:10 PM
But are you sure there was even a man on the moon? The radiation should have killed them and the pictures from the landing are questionable at best. More likely it was a clever move by our government to make the Soviets give up on the space race since we were so much farther ahead of them. Looking at how little we've done since the apparent moon landing. I think this is the most likely case. A vast conspiricy!
thecurly1
07-03-01, 12:43 PM
Instead of me spending time disproving every case against the US landing on the moon I'll send you all a very intresting and credible link: [URL=http://]http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html This will settle any stupid conspiracy theories about the moon landings.
I believe the radation that you refer to is the Van Allen Belt? Actually, they recieved slightly more than a chest x-ray would have given.
This too, is more of the Fox Hoax. I still say that Fox needs to finance a trip to the moon to prove their claims. Of course that would mean more of the same so that they could have a sequal.
thecurly1
07-03-01, 06:55 PM
Thank god someone actually believes NASA in the moon landing. I've heard so many damn conspiracy theories about the moon. Its this simple, we went, and we left after a few years. The reason the USSR never went is because they were too far behind to beat us to the moon, they didn't have the technical experience to go safely to the moon. The whole thing about Fox was something to show during sweeps to bolster ratings. Its that simple. Thanks again wet1 for agreaing with me
thecurly1
07-03-01, 06:56 PM
Thank god someone actually believes NASA in the moon landing. I've heard so many damn conspiracy theories about the moon. Its this simple, we went, and we left after a few years. The reason the USSR never went is because they were too far behind to beat us to the moon, they didn't have the technical experience to go safely to the moon. The whole thing about Fox was something to show during sweeps to bolster ratings. Its that simple. Thanks again wet1 for agreeing with me
'Tis not hard to agree with what you believe.
To me the best way to Mars would be to find the key to industrial use of space. NASA will never make it economically easy for others to reach space. That is not their mission and they are indeed funded by the government. As such there is not a need for them to supply the means or technology for it.
But if industry could see a fine profit for their investment all would be different. This would supply people in space beyond the trained few. New techonologies would emerge through necessity. And business will find the ways that make it cheaper. With people come the need for habatits, places to live, recreation, new requirements for new enviroments. At present we only have a limited presence in space and this is what needs to change. This could be the very thing that drove the movement to settle the moon. To me, this we need!
thecurly1,
I wish you'd check out some of your 'facts' before posting. I'm getting tired of following you around to see what you've posted.
The Soviets (it was still the USSR then) weren't that far 'behind', only a few months, I believe. They were just being more cautious - The proof of it is that they didn't turn three of their Cosmonauts into 'crispy critters' like we did our Astronauts.
thecurly1
07-03-01, 07:46 PM
I know it was the USSR, but that's not what I'm writing about. The Soviets were ahead of us for a while, but I believe they were farther behind than just a few months. They had killed the first man in space Yuri Gagarin, in a latter space adventure. Now I don't remember the issue, but Popular Science in 1999 or 1998 had an issue entitled "Soviet Space Secrets", they were doing some pretty dangerous stuff with their spacecraft to make advances. They stuffed three men in a two man, (Soyuz?) capsule and proclaimed that they were the first to put three men in space. If you go to popsci.com you maybe able to find it. Yes, we did sadly kill three astronauts during Apollo 1, but that's not bad for the number of men we put in space from the Mercury program on.
About all the things I post, what can I say I love this site and can type very, very fast.:D :D :D
They had killed the first man in space Yuri Gagarin, in a latter space adventure.
Yuri was a hero of the USSR and great for public relations!
They never allowed him to fly into space again and he died a few years later in a plane crash.
Check out: http://howe.iki.rssi.ru/GCTC/gctc_e.htm
"Gagarin was celebrated as a hero in the Soviet Union. Monuments were raised to him and streets named in his honor. He never went into space again. He resumed his test flight career and was killed on March 27, 1968, on a routine mission near Moscow"
thecurly1
07-03-01, 08:20 PM
I remembered Gagarin diying, I thought it was in a space accidnet but wasn't positive. Alright, he died in a plane crash, that's what I heard. It all makes sense now.
I think that prehaps we are a little off topic so I will attemp to redirect it in the general direction.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0106/marscones_mgs.jpg
In the picture you will see cones on the martian surface. It is speculated that these cones, which are located near large volcanoes, were caused by lava flows melting ice under the surface and the steam venting upwards with enough force to create the cones. This picture comes from APOD.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0106/marscones_mgs.jpg
ripleofdeath
07-05-01, 03:53 AM
hey aLL
:)
hey wet1... i cant see the cones?
#but i dont know what i am looking for!
can you describe them a little more please.
i wonder what sort of minerals/resources we could mine from mars?
grove on all :)
The cones like small volcanoes. The points face upwards. Does this help? Each has a small, concave bottom.
papa_smirf
07-05-01, 05:52 PM
First of all I'd like to apologize for the stupid coment about the moon landing possibly being a fake. I guess i saw that show on Fox like lots of other people. I checked out the sight provided by "thecurly1" and I stand corrected (for now;) ). The moon landing was real.
That is some interesting evidence of water being embedded in the moon. Still, how would you extract the moisture from the ground for a station you might have there? Maybe enclosing a section of it with plastic and heating the ground. Regardless of how, it seems that it would be a rather long and expensive process for a very little volume of water.
It does kinda resemble the moon doesn't it. It's the surface of Mars.
last night that there is now a dust storm raging on Mars. It has the potential to cover the whole planet. An astromoner that I am aquainted was grumbling about the quality of observation available due to the storm.
Could you imagine your mother telling you not to leave a dust trail in the house? Well there goes the solar power for the next week.
Also this was taken by the HST on June 26 during the closest passage of Mars to the Earth. Resolution is said to be 10 kilometers.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1080480.jpg
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1080480.jpg
A practice Mars mission is already being done. See this link for more info:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/600215.asp#BODY
As was mentioned eariler in the thread, the news media is now picking up on the Martian dust strorm. Below are pictures of before and during. No afters yet as it is not finished. Remember you heard it here first.
Before
http://www.planetary.org/html/images/DustStorm/June15_small.gif
During
http://www.planetary.org/html/images/DustStorm/July8_small.gif
Before
http://www.planetary.org/html/images/DustStorm/June15_small.gif
During
http://www.planetary.org/html/images/DustStorm/July8_small.gif
jcb15digger
07-19-01, 02:25 PM
i agree with you tetra this planet has been out grown and those stupid polotitions can't see it. we need to stop and think about what we are doing to this planet. The natural rain forests are being eniolated by greedy buisiness men who can't see for profit! Trees are the only thing sustaining us ot this planet and we're distroying them!!!!!What can one small person do?
Welcome to the forums jcb15digger! You have asked the riddle of the century. The rain forests are being demolished for more than one reason. Farmers need fields to plant their crops. To get them they burn the trees down. Only the soil where they burn will not support crops for a long time. So in a few years they have to go back and do it again. Somewhere else.
Exotic woods from trees are getting rarer to locate. Logging companies are trying to find and get all they can to stay in business. Even common trees with lumber valve is needed to build houses and other structures.
But what to do to stop it is the question!
Yesterday, July 20, was the 32nd anniversary of Apollo 11. Just imagine where the United States (if not the world) would be if we had gone ahead with the Apollo program as originally intended. Apollo missions 18 and 19 would have gone on to the moon, Skylab would have out done MIR as far as longevity, and we would have done the rest of the Apollo Applications Project, which would have been a lunar colony followed by the manned missions to mars. There would be a station at one or more of the Lagrangian points between the earth and moon.
Imagine all of the spin off technology we missed out on because people were too wrapped up in their soap operas and politicians have the attention span of a a mayfly. I both celebrate and commiserate the anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing.
Have there been a simulation picture if Mars had water (Ocean that is) how it will look? I saw on discovery channel but not sure if NASA has one.
In specutlation, I doubt that Mars has radioactives to any degree. As I understand, (and I could be wrong) it is radioactives that to some extent keep the core of earth molten. So how would we generate enough heat to keep the core hot? Has any one seen a spectograph of the martain atmosphere? Is there any nitrogren either in the atomsphere or in the soil? Oxygen is probably there with any iron and needs be broken out from being bound. (Oxygen is highly reactive)
According to data from NASA, Nitrogen makes up 2.7% of the martian atmosphere, compared to 78% N on earth. Carbon Dioxide makes up 95.3% of the atmosphere, compared to less than 1% here. Our atmosphere is 21% Oxygen compared to .13% on mars.
So if we ever do get it warmed up, the co2 is there for plants. Nitrogren is in short supply. Could not a comet bombardment bring the necessary nitrogren into the mix?
The following comes from APOD:
On July 20, 1976, NASA's Viking 1 lander become the first spacecraft to land on Mars, followed weeks later by its twin robot explorer, the Viking 2 lander. Operating on the Martian surface into the early 1980s, the Vikings took thousands of pictures, conducted sophisticated chemical searches for life, and studied the martian weather and geology. In the dramatically detailed image above, a field of rocks and boulders is viewed from the Viking 1 landing sight on Chryse Planitia (the Plain of Chryse). Viking 1's dusty foot pad is just visible at the lower right. The image was created by combining high resolution black and white images with lower resolution color images of the same area. NASA is continuing its well chronicled martian exploration program as the Mars Odyssey spacecraft is scheduled to arrive at the mysterious Red Planet on October 24th. What's Mars like today?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0107/mars_surface_vik1_big.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0107/mars_surface_vik1_big.jpg
NASA spent a lot of money on Viking mission and got good ROI.
The Viking twins were the most powerful spacecraft ever to land on another planet. Each Viking boasted an orbiter, a lander and a nuclear energy supply, allowing the satellites and ground ships to beam back data from the red planet for six years, unlike their contemporaries, which sputter out after months because they have less durable electrical supplies.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0107/dustframe_tes.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0107/dustframe_tes.jpg
Martian Dust Storm
Credit: TES Team, MGS, JPL, NASA
Explanation: If you've been unhappy with the weather on Earth, check out Mars, now in the grip of a planet-wide dust storm. Above, observations from the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) spacecraft illustrate the storm's progress through July 21. The series of dated frames show measurements from the MGS Thermal Emission Spectrometer which can determine both temperature and amount of atmospheric dust. Dust data has been plotted on maps of the martian surface with blue representing relatively clear atmosphere and red colors indicating increasing concentrations of dust. In mid June, scientists first noticed the beginnings of the storm in Mars' southern hemisphere and have watched it grow to obscure most of the planet. Unfortunately for Mars-watchers, the timing of the storm has hidden the Red Planet's surface from view during its period of close approach to planet Earth.
wet1
Considering the extent and possible ferocity of the storm, and that there is the possibility of such storms occurring even when Mars had a thicker atmosphere, has it affected the premise that many features of the Martian landscape resulted from the flow of water?
Good question.
Due to the thinner atmosphere of present Mars, even a planet wide dust storm would do less damage than it would in thicker atmosphere. Now I have read of several scenarios for creating the present topographical features that exist on Mars today.
One consists of massive volcanism. This volcanism not only created the bulge known as the Tharsis
plain but another corresponding bulge on the opposite side of the planet. It is suggested that because of this activity that Mars developed a green house effect due to the buildup of co2. As long as the volcanism remained active the co2 was maintained. This allowed for the thicker atmosphere and a steady heated atmosphere.
I seem to recall that another article somewhere mentioned that if Mars had a wetter atmosphere then the dust would not be as persuasive as it is now.(?) Attributing the thinness of the "air" for allowing the spread to carry farther during such dust storms. I gathered that to be speculation.
ripleofdeath
07-27-01, 04:53 PM
hey all
does any one remember when there were news reports
describing the greening of the martian surface?
on a seasonal basis.
i remember photography that supported it.
it was many years ago in about 1978!
any clues anyone......................?
was it explained away as something else?
groove on all :)
http://a112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/20010726/www.wired.com/news/images/full/mars0726_500x1010
http://a112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/20010726/www.wired.com/news/images/full/mars0726_500x1010
NASA images from Mars indicate that a significant amount of water may be stored near the surface of the Red Planet in a sort of Martian permafrost.
Pictures taken by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft, which began mapping the planet in 1999, show regions of smoothly undulating hills interspersed with bumpier ground.
In Thursday's issue of the journal Nature, geologists interpret the smooth hills as mounds of dust frozen solid by ice. The bumpy areas between the mounds appear to be places where the ice has disappeared and the powdery red soil has blown away.
ripleofdeath
07-30-01, 03:24 AM
WOW
what a huge slip!
waves indicate compound of fluid movement to stall.
down hill movement.
amazing to see the size of it!
its impossible to gauge the size just by looking at the picture.
cool pic wet1 !
groove on all :)
almost looks like vehicle tracks going off to the right one third up :D
Wonder if they put their 4 wheelers up before the satellite comes over?
papa_smirf
07-31-01, 04:01 PM
About a half kilometer left of center it looks almost like a huge hand is resting on the ground. Kind of neat.
ripleofdeath
08-01-01, 07:05 AM
hey all :)
maybe it is a giant hand statue at the entrance to a huge underground network of caves and living areas?
i wish i had a 4 wheel buggy to ride-
if i did i wouldnt leave it out to get melted by the sun :D
-and what batteries would i use and who would change them for me?
:D
groove on all :)
papa_smirf
08-01-01, 06:30 PM
haha..........super
From APOD Archives:
Credit: Viking Project, USGS, JPL, NASA
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0104/marsclouds_viking.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0104/marsclouds_viking.jpg
One place where water can be found on Mars is in clouds. In the above picture colorful water clouds are visible just after sunrise in and around a maze of canyons known as Noctis Labyrinthus (the labyrinth of the night). Scientists don't yet know, however, why these clouds formed, and why some stick to the canyons. One exciting possibility is that water sometimes condenses in shaded regions of the canyons, only to evaporate into clouds when exposed to the morning Sun. Water in any form on the Martian surface might be important to sustaining life and possible future human exploration. Viking Orbiter 1, which visited Mars in 1976, took the above picture. The region shown is about 100 kilometers across.
The mould from Xxznfuzz has finally made it to the Solar System!
Fellow Homo Saps UNITE!!! Do whatever's necessary to prevent the mould spores from reaching Earth before the 17,132 years it will take them to mature and be able to make it to Earth on their own !!!! Do whatever you can to prevent any return of anything from Mars!!!
Paul (W. Dixon) you were wrong!!! Wrong!!!! WRONG!!!!!
It wasn't the events at Fermi Lab. you should have been warning us about .... It was the mould on Mars!!!!!
Sir. Loone
08-08-01, 06:06 PM
Wet 1 has the best pictures of Mars I've seen in years! Good!
Sir. Loone
08-08-01, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Chagur
The mould from Xxznfuzz has finally made it to the Solar System!
Fellow Homo Saps UNITE!!! Do whatever's necessary to prevent the mould spores from reaching Earth before the 17,132 years it will take them to mature and be able to make it to Earth on their own !!!! Do whatever you can to prevent any return of anything from Mars!!!
Paul (W. Dixon) you were wrong!!! Wrong!!!! Wrong!!!!!
It wasn't the events at Fermi Lab. you should have been warning us about .... It was the mould on Mars!!!!!
You have been reading too many Sci-Fi novels 'Chagur'!:eek: :rolleyes: Or the movies about space, Mars. or something, etc.! Calm down we [Earth] will be alright!:o
Thank you, Sir. Loone. Your vote of confidence means a lot. It is only when I see such that I realize that others enjoy such as much as I do.
Pro. Max Arturo
08-09-01, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Sir. Loone
You have been reading too many Sci-Fi novels 'Chagur'!:eek: :rolleyes: Or the movies about space, Mars. or something, etc.! Calm down we [Earth] will be alright!:o
One shouldn't worry too much over Chagur's writings. He is simply excited over his new found grammatical skills. I believe that he may actually be coherent in a day, or two.....
WELL DONE CHAGUR! WELL DONE!
coltallen
08-09-01, 01:56 AM
Great stuff. I wish that the pics were working that wet1 put up.
They are indeed working. There is a problem with the setup/display in your computer. There is also the possibility that you may not have enough video memory as there are several pictures on the same page. Normally I try not to put more than one picture per page as not eveyone can get all the pictures and this is what will happen. That is not to say that is the problem but it might be.
Look at the Farewell to Jupiter thread in the Astromony section and see if you see a picture. If you do the sources of the pictures are not pasted to this page but are linked to the original site. This means you are unable to display multiple links or lack the visual capability to display. If you do not see the picture, do you see a blank space or do you see a box with an X in it? Please PM me and let us see if we can get you a method to look at it.
coltallen
08-09-01, 01:23 PM
Bud, I have a 1000 meg processor with 258 meg ram. There ain't a pitcure I cant load up. I think that your link may be expired or maybe my browser(explorer) cant load from the linked site. Maybe you could copy the pic's that you put up and sit them on a site that will you control so that the ULR cannot be changed. Try sitting these pics in a free web site somewhere and then link them from there. My computer is not the prob here, I assure you. Maybe my browser if the original link is using MAC, or Netscape.
I have a few sites myself that I change the URL to often so that others can not link my pic's and slow my site down.
Please find that all pictures in this thread now have addresses to the pictures. From now on I will include the link when posting the picture so no one is left out.
While I'm thinking of it, let me welcome you to Sciforums.
I think it is the 1000 meg processor that is the problem....Too many processors...
coltallen
08-09-01, 03:06 PM
well let me rephrase that to 1000 gig processor then:)
coltallen
08-09-01, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by wet1
Please find that all pictures in this thread now have addresses to the pictures. From now on I will include the link when posting the picture so no one is left out.
While I'm thinking of it, let me welcome you to Sciforums.
Thank you.
I like this forum. Is it yours?
Its hard to find people who like to think these days:) . I will enjoy reading your post and posting here in the future;)
1000 gig processor? Gig?...man, I could not buy one today anywhere on this planet. Must be from Alpha Centauri....
I like your signature....
No the site is not mine. I believe in it so I particpate in it. I might add that I believe in it strongly. The site belongs to Porfiry, who is an able administator. I am but a member as are you. As you can see from the right column I have volunteered to become a moderator and have been accepted as such. I humbly strive to assist in the making of the forum to be what it is. I hope you will become a valued member of this community. I think I have strayed far enough from the topic today here. I leave with this last comment. Enjoy the Sciforum for it is truely a work of art.
coltallen
08-09-01, 03:19 PM
gig, meg, there not the same:)
My sig is who I am really :D
I think that, well I know this not a religous topic or forum for that matter, but I believe that in short words, this planets is full of too many followers who are looking for something to believe in. personally I believe in things that can be explained or better yet, things that I can see:cool:
everything else is just nice speculation to talk about.
OK, coltallen:
Welcome to sciforums. We have a section for philosophical discussions you can post, start a topic. I welcome you to reply any of my topics at any time. Any of my topics in Business, Economy and political stuff goes under "life". The one I do not know goes to "Free thoughts". You can PM me or wet1 if you get confused as to how to use the forum.
We need some fresh blood here, so dive in anyplace you find an opening....
BTW, your compter is probably a 1GHz processor, that means the processor runs on the clock frequency of 1 Giga Hertz (cycle) and not 1000 GHz (that will be 1 THz or 1 Tera Hertz - we are not there yet...)
coltallen
08-09-01, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by kmguru
OK, coltallen:
BTW, your compter is probably a 1GHz processor, that means the processor runs on the clock frequency of 1 Giga Hertz (cycle) and not 1000 GHz (that will be 1 THz or 1 Tera Hertz - we are not there yet...)
Well!!!! That computer saleman lied his a$$ off to me then!!!!
(please note that there is always a little humor in everything that I write. When reading my post try to imagine me as laughing as I am typing. But by no means, does that not make me serious about what I am talking about... That is for the most part. :) )
I think this forum is going to be a fun place to hang out and a place where I might just learn something.
Also if your wondering about my tag=line, well I am a huge Colts fan and my name is Allen.
enough with me though lets get this topic headed back into the direction that it was first intened.
Sir. Loone
08-09-01, 08:27 PM
Has anyone ever herd of or listen to the radio talk show "Art Bell?", it's about stuff that Churger was talking about earlier.:cool:
And more strainge stuff!
Unfortunately we don't get Art Bell. By other posts I have learned he is a "radio personality". I have never heard him. But I am indeed curious, do please go on, Sir. Loone.
From APOD archives:
Credit: Viking Project, NASA
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0103/barsoom.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0103/barsoom.jpg
"Yes, I have been to Barsoom again ..." begins John Carter in Edgar Rice Burroughs' 1913 science fiction classic "The Gods of Mars". In Burroughs' novels describing Carter's adventures on Mars, "Barsoom" is the local inhabitants' name for the Red Planet. Long after Burroughs' stories were published, Mars continues to inspire Earthdwellers' interests and imagination. Soon it will again be invaded by spacecraft from Earth. This dramatic picture of a crescent Mars was taken by NASA's Viking 2 spacecraft as it approached Barsoom in 1976.
From APOD Archives:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0106/allmars_mola.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0106/allmars_mola.jpg
All of Mars
Credit: National Geographic Society, MOLA Science Team, MGS, JPL, NASA
Explanation: From pole to pole, from east to west, this is all of Mars. The above picture was digitally reconstructed from over 200 million laser altimeter measurements taken by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft currently orbiting Mars. The image strips Mars of its clouds and dust, and renders the whole surface visible simultaneously in its true daytime color. Particularly notable are the volcanoes of the Tharsis province, visible on the left, which are taller than any mountains on Earth. Just to the left of center is Valles Marineris, a canyon much longer and deeper Earth's Grand Canyon. On the right, south of the center, is the Hellas Planitia, a basin over 2000 kilometers wide that was likely created by a collision with an asteroid. Mars has many smooth lowlands in the north, and many rough highlands in the south. Mars has just passed its closest approach to Earth since 1988 and can be seen shining brightly in the evening sky.
essexman
08-13-01, 01:06 PM
In reply to tetras first point. We don't need to go to mars and terraform the planet. It would be far easier to live in enormous craft of our own making.
We always think we need to go to this planet and that planet, once we are up there we don't need to come back down.
We could mine asteroids for raw materials and build bigger and bigger craft.
One day some of these craft may want to try and go to the nearest stars. It may take many years but if people live in space anyway they will not be too worried about living on a planet.
Welcome to Sciforums, essexman. May your posts be long and varied.
The idea of whether to use space as our habitat or a planet is a long debatable issue. On one side to make a habitat in space would be easier than trying to terraform a planet. True. However terraforming a planet is something that sooner or later will be tried. Why? Near earth's area we have a backup in that our home is not far away if we get into trouble. Should earth disappear from catastrophic circumstances, as a liviable enviroment, we shall have no other area that suits us. Several possibilities supply that scenerio now. Birthing and body degradation due to space and its effects at this time do not allow us to spend long term lenghts in its enviroment. As such a hospitable planet is required.
From APOD Archives:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0103/marscheese_mgs_big.gif
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0103/marscheese_mgs_big.gif
Swiss Cheese-Like Landscape on Mars
Credit: Malin Space Science Systems, MGS, JPL, NASA
Why do parts of the south pole of Mars look like swiss cheese? This little-understood landscape features flat-topped mesas nearly 4 meters high and circular indentations over 100 meters across. Since this swiss-cheese topography is unique to the polar cap covering southern Mars, exogeologists speculate that mesa composition might be high in frozen carbon dioxide (dry ice). Additionally, dry ice might have had a role in this strange landscape's creation. In the above picture, the Martian surface is illuminated by sunlight from the upper right. The above picture was taken in August 1999 by the robot Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft currently orbiting Mars.
From APOD:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0108/dunes3d_mgs_big.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0108/dunes3d_mgs_big.jpg
Mars: 3-D Dunes
Credit: MSSS, JPL, NASA
: Get out your red/blue glasses and treat yourself to this dramatic 3-D view of sand dunes on Mars! The field of undulating dunes is found in Nili Patera, a volcanic depression in central Syrtis Major, the most prominent dark feature on the Red Planet. Two different images from the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft were combined to make this stereo picture, one taken in March 1999 and the other recorded in April 2001. Sculpted by winds like the sand dunes of Earth, these particular Martian dunes show no change in shape over the time separating the two images, a period equivalent to about one Martian year. This cropped version of the 3-D picture spans an area around 2 kilometers across. Walking, you might cover that distance in about 20 minutes.
Sir. Loone
08-15-01, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by wet1
Unfortunately we don't get Art Bell. By other posts I have learned he is a "radio personality". I have never heard him. But I am indeed curious, do please go on, Sir. Loone.
Hi, sorry it took so long. But we get Art Bell and other scientific, paranormal talk show host here in Montgomery Alabama U.S.A. 'am' 1170 WACB every day, I listen every once in a wile and I say I don't believe everything herd on those shows, but is entertaining and be's on the air for 5-6hours 12 mid-night till 6 in the morning, talking about Mars, Bigfoot, UFO's, Ghosts, astronomy, cloning, much more,and the stuff that I have read a little about on this forum!:D Some times I tape it all and listen on the week end because it's so long and can't stay awake long enough to here the whole show. He says the show is on short wave radio you may find him at: art bell.com, They really be into what you have been debating about and others on the forum, no matter how way out there conversations would be! We really enjoy the pictures! Wet1 !http://www.artbell.com :cool:
Martian Colors Provide Clues about Martian Water
http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/HST/press/oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/1999/07/content/9907w.gif
http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/HST/press/oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/1999/07/content/9907w.gif
Photo Credit: Jim Bell (Cornell University), Justin Maki (JPL), and Mike Wolff (Space Sciences Institute) and NASA
NASA Hubble Space Telescope images of Mars taken in visible and infrared light detail a rich geologic history and provide further evidence for water-bearing minerals on the planet's surface.
LEFT This "true-color" image of Mars shows the planet as it would look to human eyes. It is clearly more earth-toned than usually depicted in other astronomical images, including earlier Hubble pictures. The slightly bluer shade along the edges of the disk is due to atmospheric hazes and wispy water ice clouds (like cirrus clouds) in the early morning and late evening Martian sky. The yellowish-pink color of the northern polar cap indicates the presence of small iron-bearing dust particles. These particles are covering or are suspended in the air above the blue-white water ice and carbon dioxide ice, which make up the polar cap.
Accurate colors are needed to determine the composition and mineralogy of Mars. This can tell how water has influenced the formation of rocks and minerals found on Mars today, as well as the distribution and abundance of ice and subsurface liquid water. Confirmation of the presence of certain oxidized (rusted) minerals (processed by heat or water action) would imply the possibility of different, perhaps much more Earth-like, past Martian climate periods. Because the smallest features visible in this image are only about 14 miles (22 km) across, Hubble can track small-scale variations in the distribution of minerals that do not follow global trends. The image was generated from three separate Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 images acquired at wavelengths of 410, 502, and 673 nanometers, in March 1997.
RIGHT A false-color picture taken in infrared light reveals features that cannot be seen in visible light. Hubble's unique infrared view pinpoints variations in the abundance and distribution of unknown water-bearing minerals on the planet. While it has been known for decades that small amounts of water-bearing minerals exist on the planet's surface, the reddish regions in this image indicate areas of enhanced concentrations of these as-yet-unidentified deposits. They are perhaps related to the water-rich history of this part of Mars. In particular, the large reddish region known as Mare Acidalium was the site of massive flooding early in Martian history. (NASA's Pathfinder spacecraft landed at the southern edge of this region in 1997.) This composite image was taken in July 1997 with Hubble's Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer. Red corresponds to the strength of an absorption band detected near 1450 nanometers; green to the brightness of the surface in the near-infrared; and blue to topographic elevation, determined from Viking Orbiter data.
Thank you for the link, Sir. Loone, This one's for you.
Sir. Loone,
I found that you can listen to the Art Bell show through the internet from the link you supplied. I listened to a small amount of it. I plan to try a little longer slice later. I think you're right, I could indeed be interesting.
From APOD Archives:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0108/phobos_vik1_big.jpg
[url]http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0108/phobos_vik1_big.jpg[/img]
Phobos: Doomed Moon of Mars
Credit: Viking Project, JPL, NASA
Image mosaic by Edwin V. Bell II (NSSDC/Raytheon ITSS)
Mars, the red planet named for the Roman god of war, has two tiny moons, Phobos and Deimos, whose names are derived from the Greek for Fear and Panic. These Martian moons may well be captured asteroids originating in the main asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter or perhaps from even more distant reaches of the Solar System. In this 1978 Viking 1 orbiter image, the largest moon, Phobos, is indeed seen to be a heavily cratered asteroid-like object. About 17 miles across, Phobos really zips through the Martian sky. Actually rising above Mars' western horizon and setting in the east, it completes an orbit in less than 8 hours. But Phobos is doomed. Phobos orbits so close to Mars, (about 3,600 miles above the surface compared to 250,000 miles for our Moon) that gravitational tidal forces are dragging it down. In 100 million years or so it will likely crash into the surface or be shattered by stress caused by the relentless tidal forces, the debris forming a ring around Mars.
From Potato Land:
"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
-- Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/11/89
I just had a VERY good idea.
What if we were to attach a couple of gigantic rockets to the equator of Mars, get a good sized comet, fliy the comet in a close orbit of Mars, while at the same time firing the rockets in the opposite direction in which the comet's gravitational force would speed up the rotation.
What I would think this would do, would be to accelerate the innards of mars, while keeping the crust where it is (because the rockets dont affect the entire planet, just the crust).
This would likley restore Mars's magnetic field.
No, this is not some irrational super-destructive thing. It would not be THAT hard to maybe bore holes alone the Martian equator, fill them up with oxygen and engines, and ignite all of them simultaneously. Apart from giving Mars a megnetic field, this would also warm Mars up a considerable degree, and pressurize the atmosphere at the same time (with the exaust gases of rockets).
If you ask who would be doing all of this drilling and engine making, it would have to be robots. And no, I am not talking about the little fragile tin cans that NASA is sending there today, I mean millions of heavy duty building size robots that self-replicate, and are controlled from ON Mars, or in orbits of Mars.
I am aware that we do not currently have the technology to do this, but wait about 50 years and well see about that.
I see that you have been thinking here tetra.
What if we were to attach a couple of gigantic rockets to the equator of Mars, get a good sized comet, fliy the comet in a close orbit of Mars, while at the same time firing the rockets in the opposite direction in which the comet's gravitational force would speed up the rotation.
What I would think this would do, would be to accelerate the innards of mars, while keeping the crust where it is (because the rockets dont affect the entire planet, just the crust).
Maybe I'm wrong here but it looks like you assume that the core is molten as it is on earth. On earth radioactives keep the core molten. On Mars there is no molten core. Maybe that means that there are no radioactives. Without the molten core I don't think there is anything for your comet to react on. As the whole of Mars appears to be solid.
This would likley restore Mars's magnetic field.
The molten core is what gives the magnetic field.
yes, Mars does have a molten center, although it is not nearly as large proportinally to earth.
I think what I meant to say is that it is not continous. But rather in pockets like it is almost gone.
if it is in pockets, then there is a good chance that many will be close to each other, and woul merge together if shifted by any large heavenly body.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/mars_relay/ds2_mpl_role/mpl_shadow.jpg
The Mars Polar Lander entered the martian atmosphere on December 3, 1999, and contact was never re-established after that time. On January 17, 2000, after considerable effort to communicate with the spacecraft, NASA/JPL declared the mission at an end. No data were returned from the MARDI instrument
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0109/marspan_ud.jpg
Surrounded by Mars
Credit: Mark T. Lemmon (Texas A&M), IMP Team, JPL, NASA
Just after landing on Mars in 1997, the robotic Mars Pathfinder main station took a quick first look around. This insurance panorama was taken even before the Sagan Memorial Station camera was raised to its two-meter-high perch. The full view is best seen by slowly scrolling to the right. The unique perspective captures many Mars Pathfinder instruments in the close foreground including a screen for judging sky illumination, communications antennae, solar panels, and two ramps leading down to the surface for the robot probe Sojourner. After taking the ramp on the right, Sojourner can be seen on the Martian surface. Visible on the surface are numerous rocks and hills that came to be better studied. The Mars Pathfinder mission went on to return 16,000 images and data that resulted in many discoveries, including evidence for warmer and wetter conditions on Mars in the past. After nearly three spectacular months exploring the surface, Mars
cool!
thanks for all the pictures.
I don't care what the general public thinks, the only thing we should be concentrating on now is getting a significant number of people who are not dependant on Earth.
The Human Species needs it to stay alive. I doubt that we will last another 300 years on our own.
ripleofdeath
10-09-01, 06:02 PM
hey all :)
hey wet1....
look at the far right of the big pic!
it looks like there is evidence of wind effect on the dust and as if it has lightly rained on it first.
what a strange place it must be.
i stagger to try to imagine the type of physics at work in such an enviroment.
groove on all :)
Blandine
10-10-01, 01:06 PM
I really love all those pictures!
Do you know SimEarth? It's a computer game about terraforming Mars, Venus or trying to play around with climate and life on Earth. To terraform Mars you have to add greenhouse gases and water-containing meteors. You need very long before anything can live there and the climate is always uncontrolled. There is also the Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson. I don't know any more what they do to change the climate there, but they use genetically-changed plants and animals that thrive in arctic climates.
It doesn't sound impossible in those books and I would feel much better if there was another place to live, just in case some lunatic blows up this one.
(Sorry for my English!):)
I am going to get off the subject for a minute. I am amazed at our foreign visitors. Most apologise for their English and actually they do better that us that are native born to it. Would that I could do so well....
Blandine
10-12-01, 09:29 PM
...in wrriting sse diferrence may be smaller, but be glad you'f nefer hearrd mi...
SeekerOfTruth
10-19-01, 08:29 AM
Hi all,
This is a cool site I have been visiting for a while and now feel comfortable enough to post to. This is also a very interesting conversation. Here are a few thoughts I have had.
Problem: Lack of "hot" core for Mars.
Possible Solution: Ram a large asteroid into Mars.
Problem with solution: We have to wait a few hundred thousand to a million years for it to cool enough to let us visit it. That's a little outside the window of planning for the human race. :)
Problem: Lack of breathable, high density atmosphere
Possible Solution: Find a comet (or multiple comets) that is (are) high in Nitrogen, Oxygen and any other elements we might want and alter their trajectories so they slam into Mars.
Problem with solution: We may have to wait a few hundred years for the planet to be free of the dust cloud the impacts would cause.
Another solution: Genetically modify bacteria found on Earth to survive on Mars and produce bacteria.
Problem with solution: Takes a reaaaalllyyy long time to generate an atmosphere that way. :)
Problem: Mars Gravity is not that of Earth (approx. 1/3 of Earth's), which is a partial reason for the low atmosphere, so what effect will this have on the Human Species?
Possible Solution: The same solution to the hot core problem.
Problem with solution: Same time frame as the hot core problem.
Finally, here is an interesting site about Mars.
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mep/science/
Stryder
10-19-01, 12:55 PM
Heres another daft idea of how to create an ozone at least, the entire creation of a breathable atmosphere would just be through a bit of ice melting....
First collect as many old fridges and freezers as you can. Then pump all the coolants that contain CFC's into a container and place it onto a rocket.
Fire the rocket into space and to mars, when it reaches a decent distance where the gases are held by it's orbit, empt the container of coolant.
This in theory could create an Ozone layer (You just then have to fill below this level with other gases, like Hydrogen and Oxygen.
well it's one way of getting rid of any extra CFC's :D
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0110/mars_duststorm_big.jpg
Mars Engulfed
Credit: J. Bell (Cornell), M. Wolff (Space Science Inst.), Hubble Heritage Team (STScI / AURA), NASA
For months now, Mars has been engulfed by a great dust storm, the biggest seen raging across the Red Planet in decades. As a result, these two Hubble Space Telescope storm watch images from late June and early September offer dramatically contrasting views of the martian surface. At left, the onset of smaller "seed" storms can be seen near the Hellas basin (lower right edge of Mars) and the northern polar cap. A similar surface view at right, taken over two months later, shows the fully developed extent of the obscuring global dust storm. The storm is reported to be waning, but planet-wide effects such as the warming of the upper martian atmosphere and cooling of the surface are still being monitored daily by instruments on board the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft. The present condition of the martian atmosphere is also important to the aerobraking Mars Odyssey spacecraft, scheduled to arrive at the Red Planet next week.
illuminati
10-21-01, 11:23 AM
I haven't read the whole thread (It's getting late over here), so sorry if I'm repeating anything
The two most interesting works I've found on the colonisation of Mars are the Mars Direct plan (published in New Scientist a while back, should still be able to search it out on the web site) and Kim Stanley Robinson's MARS trilogy...it's big, but <B>definitely</B> worth a read!
-Daniel (illuminati)
illuminati,
The sources you have mentioned have not been seen in this thread before, thank you for you input.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.