What does God have anything to say about genes in all life forms on Earth?

[daktaklakpak]

Human contains some genes that also found on low from lives. What will God/Bible say about these kind of similarity.

Genetic advance will eventually lead to the possibility to create a brand new specie of life. What does this ability imply? Are we God because we can create life? Or we now have the ability that once thought only God will have?

[daktaklakpak]

Some diseases are pre-determined at the time of conception because they are genetic related. The child has not even born yet. With no abortion, does that mean the child is born to suffer? Or because Sin is already existed at the point of conception?

What does God have anything to say about this kind of suffering?

[daktaklakpak]

Why the judgement day hasn't come yet? Give us another century, people might start to colony Mars. Does Jesus also have to visit Mars to clean stuff up?

[Deadwood]

Hi, these sound like well thought out questions.

The first passage that comes to mind when I read the second question was:

Genesis 3:21-23

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

This was just after Adam and Eve ate the apple on the Tree of knowledge.

You can see this happening right now as God knew at the time that Adam and Eve ate the apple which by the best of my knowledge was about 6000 years ago.

Man is starting to discover just the tip of the ice berg of our human make up. In fact just yesterday of was pondering how life would have to be created by intelligence and NOT by random accidents and anomolies.

If you have ever studied DNA, you would know that it is made up of code. In fact a 4 letter code. How could this possibly be an accident. A code just doesn't appear by itself after a billion year, there has to be intelligence behind it.

To get back to topic, if man tries to create a new species, that would be exact to the prophecy.

Also, in regards to your first question.

I would have to say that God could do that. We are supposed to have 75% the same DNA as a Tomatoe, or it might even be 90%. The same applies to the Cockroach. This does not mean that humans are any less. God created us to be in charge of the animals and plants. We are at the head. We are more intelligent than any of these animals. Yet look at what we have done with that intelligence.

I put to you that if you think that animals are low. Then think how low we are to God(hierarchial).

But even though we may be nothing compared to the glory of God, John 3:16 states

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

He loved us so much that He would die just for us, for whoever believes IN Him.

This leads on to the next question.

"Why the judgement day hasn't come yet? Give us another century, people might start to colony Mars. Does Jesus also have to visit Mars to clean stuff up?"

God can still bring Christians up to Christ from Mars.
As well as this, the end of this World may come before that even happens. No one knows the day or the hour, but be vigilant, look for the times.

I'm not going to set a date.

Thanks for reading :)

Comments?

[rde]

Originally posted by Deadwood
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
But if they didn't know about good and evil, and there was no right and wrong, then why was it a sin to eat the apple?

If you have ever studied DNA, you would know that it is made up of code. In fact a 4 letter code. How could this possibly be an accident. A code just doesn't appear by itself after a billion year, there has to be intelligence behind it.
Not so much 'accident' as 'inevitable'. DNA is made -as you said - of four bases. Each of these bases is made (AFAIR) of amino acids. We know these amino acids can form in space; we now know that at least one of the bases - adenine - can also form in space. That's without lightning, liquid water, primordial soup... Why is it neccessary, then, for an intelligence?

I would have to say that God could do that. We are supposed to have 75% the same DNA as a Tomatoe, or it might even be 90%. The same applies to the Cockroach. This does not mean that humans are any less. God created us to be in charge of the animals and plants. We are at the head. We are more intelligent than any of these animals. Yet look at what we have done with that intelligence.
We've created hinduism, christianity, scientology, judaism, universal panetheistic solipsism, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Jupiter and many many other gods with that intelligence.

I put to you that if you think that animals are low. Then think how low we are to God(hierarchial).
Why does anyone think animals are low? And if intelligence is the sole yardstick of 'lowliness', which is lower; a brain-damaged child or a dolphin?

God can still bring Christians up to Christ from Mars.
But doesn't God only tell us to fill the Earth and conquer it?

[Corp.Hudson]

Man has already created new species through genetic tampering. The most common one that comes to mind is the Sea Monkey - yes those cute critters that came in the cheap plastic kits.

Although based on the naturally occuring Brine Shrimp, Sea Monkey's are considered a seperate species.

[daktaklakpak]

Here is a good one.

The Bible claims the Earth is around 6000 years old. I just wonder why God set us up in the stone age tech? Is it because that's the best tech God can think of at that time?

If God allows us to evolve, is that mean that was the lowest tech level God can think of? Obviously we did dig up some even lower tech stuff out of the dirts that were more than 6000 years old. Who made them?

If God knows all the techs, why not just setup a good high tech theme park(Earth) so us can enjoy? Why there is no hint in the Bible that we will have TV, computer, and mars probe?

Was it because God was living in stone age, too? :D

[Corp.Hudson]

The bible never claims that the earth was created 6000 years ago. Not once. Several biblical scholars have attempted to set a date of creation, but they will never have an accurate date based on the bible. There are several places in the bible where gaps in the narrative occur, and the gaps could range anywhere from decades to millenia.

Also, maybe mankind was meant by god to live as stone age people. Maybe we are just another member of the community of life, not above it like we all like to think. Who says that we were meant to have technology beyond the stone age?

[daktaklakpak]

Good to hear that Bible does not claim the age of Earth.

[Deadwood]

Hey everyone.

First of all, I never said anything about intelligence making you low. God loves all humans equally, he does not look down upon brain damaged babies.

But if they didn't know about good and evil, and there was no right and wrong, then why was it a sin to eat the apple?

God told Adam and Eve, that they could eat of any fruit in the Garden of Eden(Eden translates as pleasure) except off the Tree of Knowledge.

Genesis 2:16-18*
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


By eating of the tree they chose to disobey God. Disobeying god is a sin. Satin tempted them, and told them that they would not die but become equals with God. They chose to disbelieve God and go against His word. This was a choice that Adam and Eve chose.

they chose to sin, and knew the consequences, God did not hide anything from them, but they chose not to trust God, but chose to put their trust in themselves and Satan.

Not so much 'accident' as 'inevitable'. DNA is made -as you said - of four bases. Each of these bases is made (AFAIR) of amino acids.

Then explain to me where the amino acids came from. It is not such an accident that we are here as inevitable we were created by our loving Father.

I just wonder why God set us up in the stone age tech? Is it because that's the best tech God can think of at that time?

Do you think God created us to need computers, toasters, irons, and so forth. No all we need is Him, God is the provider of all of our needs. He did not create us to use the latest in technology as money hungry corporations would have you believe.

Once we have God, we don't have to worry. He will provide.

Mathew 25,26,31-34.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
26
Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
31
So do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?'
32
For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

If God allows us to evolve, is that mean that was the lowest tech level God can think of? Obviously we did dig up some even lower tech stuff out of the dirts that were more than 6000 years old. Who made them?

We did not evolve the bible clear states that we were created. Also, carbon dating is flawed. Go to http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dating.asp

Also, I ask you to tell me how the pyramids were built. People today with all of their high tech could not even build the equivalent of the pyramid of Giza, nor even know how to start.

I believe that human are degenerating, not getting better as evolutionists would have you think.
These people in Egypt, would be more intelligent then what you think. Through sin, I believe, that we are getting worse, through the sinful condition.

Is hate, is that a cause of evolution?
Is making people suffer a cause of evolution?
Is stealing, adultering, idolating, murdering, coveting, not loving the lord your God with all your heart and soul, and not loving our neighbour, is this all an act of human evolution?

It is sin. The sinful condition has caused this, and has seperated us from God. but if you turn back to God, and repent and be baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, you will be forgiven, all of your sins, and you will be reconciled to God.

If God knows all the techs, why not just setup a good high tech theme park(Earth) so us can enjoy?

He created the garden of Eden, and He dwelt with us. What better could you imagine. Only God knows.

[Corp.Hudson]

You say that technology is degenerating. You say that this is a result of sin. Yet the only example you give of an advanced state of mankind before the sinful decline is of a people who actively rejected the Jewish god...

hmmm......

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by Deadwood
Also, I ask you to tell me how the pyramids were built. People today with all of their high tech could not even build the equivalent of the pyramid of Giza, nor even know how to start.

On the contrary, I saw a documentary film on Discover channel that demos how we can build a pyramid with just rocks and logs.


I believe that human are degenerating, not getting better as evolutionists would have you think.
These people in Egypt, would be more intelligent then what you think. Through sin, I believe, that we are getting worse, through the sinful condition.

You think the ability to clone life and leave the solar system called degenerating? You think the average human life span increased to 70 is degenerating?


Is hate, is that a cause of evolution?
Is making people suffer a cause of evolution?
Is stealing, adultering, idolating, murdering, coveting, not loving the lord your God with all your heart and soul, and not loving our neighbour, is this all an act of human evolution?

Hate, stealing, murdering, and others are instincts encoded in our genes, you can never get rid of them. However, we can learn to control those instincts. That's the evolution. Else, we'll never be social animals.


It is sin. The sinful condition has caused this, and has seperated us from God. but if you turn back to God, and repent and be baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, you will be forgiven, all of your sins, and you will be reconciled to God.

Genetic flaw will lead to birth defect. I guess sin was existed at the blink of conception then. Why don't we just stop all the sin once and for all by stopping procreation?


He created the garden of Eden, and He dwelt with us. What better could you imagine. Only God knows.
I would like to have starship and do interstellar travel. Can God do that? I would like to have a dime sized micro quantum reactor that can supply power for a home for centuries. Can God do that? I would like computer that act like human. Can God do that? If God don't want to do it. We, the human, can make it happen. That's evolution, too.

About your dating story from your link, obviously the guy didn't use scientific method to test the sample. Normally, if the result disagree with the testing, he should collect more sample from the same area to do more testing. But he insists the result he got at the first time is the correct one. Sigh...

[daktaklakpak]

The definition of Heaven:

1) Heaven and Earth are two things, if it's not Earth, then it must be in Heaven.

2) Heaven, other interstellar bodies, and Earth are three separate things.

Case one will imply living on space station is living in Heaven.

Case two will imply living on space station will escape the judgement day.

Both are no good.

Any suggestion?

[Corp.Hudson]

There is no human nature!!! There is no hate gene, there is no theft gene, there is no murder gene!!! What we consider to be encoded into our GENES is instead coded into our MEMES. Memes are essentially cultural genes - how we are socialized. Indigenous tribes across the world lived without hate, without murder, without theft (although admittedly other tribes across the world lived with these things)!! This alone is proof that sin is not encoded into our genes. This reminds me of a famous quote, I forget who said it, but "What we call human nature is really <b>HUMAN HABIT</b>."

LOOK BEYOND YOUR OWN CULTURE!

[Rambler]

You asked:

"any suggestions?"

I have one: don't try to make sense of christain theology. Its nothing but a cruel joke taken to EXTREME limits, at best its a view of the world through very ignorant eyes.

Who knows maybe in the not so distant future when the slower nations catch up with the age of information, christainity will be viewed as a mental illness, or better still it could be an IQ rating slotted somewhere between moron and cretin (I'm basing this on what has been submitted by Tony1).

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by Corp.Hudson
There is no human nature!!! There is no hate gene, there is no theft gene, there is no murder gene!!! What we consider to be encoded into our GENES is instead coded into our MEMES. Memes are essentially cultural genes - how we are socialized. Indigenous tribes across the world lived without hate, without murder, without theft (although admittedly other tribes across the world lived with these things)!! This alone is proof that sin is not encoded into our genes. This reminds me of a famous quote, I forget who said it, but "What we call human nature is really <b>HUMAN HABIT</b>."

LOOK BEYOND YOUR OWN CULTURE!

Of course there is no theft gene nor murder gene.

However, there are genes that tell us we are hungry now and need to eat.

Then, what kind of food we eat will depend on our culture and the current environment/condition. From eating whatever you come across to not eat at all, the option is yours.

[Deadwood]

You say that technology is degenerating. You say that this is a result of sin. Yet the only example you give of an advanced state of mankind before the sinful decline is of a people who actively rejected the Jewish god...

The egyptians existed after the fall.

On the contrary, I saw a documentary film on Discover channel that demos how we can build a pyramid with just rocks and logs.

Thanks for the info. however, I am still not sure if mankind could build the pyramids. If they could great. however, I don't believe everything thats on discovery channel.

You think the ability to clone life and leave the solar system called degenerating? You think the average human life span increased to 70 is degenerating?

I think the ability to clone life is mankind trying to become more like God.

The average life span in the beggining was over a hundred years old!

Hate, stealing, murdering, and others are instincts encoded in our genes, you can never get rid of them. However, we can learn to control those instincts.

that could be how our sins are passed from generation to generation. Yes, we can learn to control those instincts, however, was morality a bunch of random accidents over 63 million to 6 billion(scientists aren't sure of this) years also? As your so-called evolution was?

Genetic flaw will lead to birth defect.

A sad fact of the sinful condition.

I would like to have starship and do interstellar travel. Can God do that? I would like to have a dime sized micro quantum reactor that can supply power for a home for centuries. Can God do that? I would like computer that act like human. Can God do that?

Mate (I'm an aussie), God could do even better than that.

If God don't want to do it. We, the human, can make it happen. That's evolution, too.

Thats not evolution, go back to your text book. Thats using our intelligence, and thought which God so graciously gave us.

The definition of Heaven:

1) Heaven and Earth are two things, if it's not Earth, then it must be in Heaven.

2) Heaven, other interstellar bodies, and Earth are three separate things.

Case one will imply living on space station is living in Heaven.

Case two will imply living on space station will escape the judgement day.

If I said I found a great space to live in, would that imply I am going to live in space? No.

The heavens is just a term used to call the things outside of the Earth. It is not the Heaven where God resides.

If you want to escape the Great White Throne Judgement. Repent and call on Jesus Christ.

I have one: don't try to make sense of christain theology. Its nothing but a cruel joke taken to EXTREME limits, at best its a view of the world through very ignorant eyes.

I like to keep an open view of things. However, is erasing Christian theology keeping an open view. I think its cutting out a chunk of man's trying to find the truth.

christainity will be viewed as a mental illness, or better still it could be an IQ rating slotted somewhere between moron and cretin (I'm basing this on what has been submitted by Tony1).

Actually, out of two IQ tests I have taken I have got 153 and 159 respectively, so I don't think that applies to me. In respect to Tony1's IQ, I say he's smarter than all of you, because he see's the bible as authoritative and the true written word of God as revealed to man.

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by Deadwood

I think the ability to clone life is mankind trying to become more like God.

Ahhh...We become more like God. Interesting....


The average life span in the beggining was over a hundred years old!

Why the bone structure of the old cave man telling otherwise? All the old bones tell us that average life span of human at 6000 years ago was no more than 30. Unless you insisted Earth revolved around Sun three times faster 6000 years ago. That would make them 100 years old.


that could be how our sins are passed from generation to generation. Yes, we can learn to control those instincts, however, was morality a bunch of random accidents over 63 million to 6 billion(scientists aren't sure of this) years also? As your so-called evolution was?

Isn't that life is a chain of chemical reactions modified by another chain of chemical reactions?


A sad fact of the sinful condition.

Please stop procreate, it will make this world has one less sinful being.


Mate (I'm an aussie), God could do even better than that.

Really??? If you know what a quantum generator is, you won't be so sure...


Thats not evolution, go back to your text book. Thats using our intelligence, and thought which God so graciously gave us.

Hmm...Why people 6000 years ago don't use their intelligence to make electronic computer? Because God give them stupid intelligence?


If I said I found a great space to live in, would that imply I am going to live in space?

Yes, if you don't live in space, you don't exist. It doesn't matter it's outside or on the Earth.


The heavens is just a term used to call the things outside of the Earth. It is not the Heaven where God resides.

So there are two heavens? No wonder I won't see God, because it doesn't exist in my space and time.


If you want to escape the Great White Throne Judgement. Repent and call on Jesus Christ.

I have no desire to escape such pointless dream. It has fooled countless people for more than 2000 thousand years. I don't mind if it will fool another 2000 years.

[Deadwood]

Why the bone structure of the old cave man telling otherwise? All the old bones tell us that average life span of human at 6000 years ago was no more than 30. Unless you insisted Earth revolved around Sun three times faster 6000 years ago.

Let me guess, using the old carbon dating method? How would they even know they only lived to 30 years old? Either the dating and aging method is flawed or they havn't discovered any bones older than that.

Isn't that life is a chain of chemical reactions modified by another chain of chemical reactions?

Are you saying that the product of 63 million years of chemical reactions invented Thou shalt not kill?
This is an integral part of our law system. There are many people who kill other people. If evolution is true as you say and those chemical reactions created this law or gave us the intelligence to know, what have we to say about those who break this rule of evolution(not to kill)? Shall we say they have not reached a higher stage of evolution? If we having evolved have broken these acts, which chemical reactions over millions of years have instilled in our brain and conscience then what have we to say about Jesus Christ. Either he was the most evolved man to enter this planet since he broke none of these rules and is the most intelligent since he knew all of these rules. Either that or he is truly who he said he was "The Son of God". If he being the most intelligent made us all aware of sin, who are you to say no to him.

Please stop procreate, it will make this world has one less sinful being.

That person will always have the chance not to turn to Christ and away from sin.

Really??? If you know what a quantum generator is, you won't be so sure...

Friend, you really think he doesn't know about Quantum mechenics? He knows all of these things even before humans discover them.

Hmm...Why people 6000 years ago don't use their intelligence to make electronic computer? Because God give them stupid intelligence?

Why do you have so much contempt for your fore fathers? You must invent one before the other. Even the gigahertz processor was not invented before the 486. Nor the transister before the vacuum tube(or whatever its called I forget). Do you share the same contempt for these computer scientists compared to the ones today?

Yes, if you don't live in space, you don't exist. It doesn't matter it's outside or on the Earth.

Thanks for taking me out of context.

So there are two heavens? No wonder I won't see God, because it doesn't exist in my space and time.

Please go back and read what I said regarding that. Calling outer space, outer space and the heavens is interchangable. You know that. Perhaps you havn't evolved enough to understand.

Also, I'm sorry to not explain reside. It is hard to explain. God is everywhere, but His dwelling place is in heaven. However, His holy spirit resides in Christians on Earth, but He still know where you are and what you are doing. You can not hide anything from Him.

Heaven is different. we do not know the location or whether it is in the universe or not.

[rde]

Originally posted by Deadwood
Are you saying that the product of 63 million years of chemical reactions invented Thou shalt not kill?
This is an integral part of our law system. There are many people who kill other people. If evolution is true as you say and those chemical reactions created this law or gave us the intelligence to know, what have we to say about those who break this rule of evolution(not to kill)? Shall we say they have not reached a higher stage of evolution? If we having evolved have broken these acts, which chemical reactions over millions of years have instilled in our brain and conscience then what have we to say about Jesus Christ. Either he was the most evolved man to enter this planet since he broke none of these rules and is the most intelligent since he knew all of these rules. Either that or he is truly who he said he was "The Son of God". If he being the most intelligent made us all aware of sin, who are you to say no to him.
If four billion years of chemical reactions came up with "thou shalt not kill", remember it also came up with Debbie Does Dallas, 120 Days of Sodom, the Kama Sutra, the Bagavad Gita, the Quaran... the list goes ever on.

I notice that you're posting from Australia, where Thou Shalt not Kill is indeed enshrined in law. But what about the US? People are executed all the time. This is the case all around the world. It is not a rule of evolution. It could be argued, in fact, that "kill or be killed" better suits evolution than "thou shalt not kill".

Finally: there is no such thing as "more evolved" in the context you're using it. If a species is capable of surviving and procreating in an environment, it's evolutionarily (if that's a word) ideal. Being "more evolved" wouldn't help Jesus - or anyone, for that matter - survive high levels of radiation. deinococcus radiodurans (which I may have misspelt), on the other hand, laps it up. Who's more adapted to live in areas of high (natural or artificial) radiation?

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by Deadwood

Let me guess, using the old carbon dating method? How would they even know they only lived to 30 years old?
Unfortunately, carbon dating can only estimate the time when those people lived. In order to tell their age, we need to exam their bone structure and density. From those data, we can tell if it belongs to a child or an adult, a male or a female. And obviously the bone density tells they never lived pass 30's.


Either the dating and aging method is flawed or they havn't discovered any bones older than that.

I don't mind if they dig up some more old bones. But for the last century of digging, none of those 6000 plus year old bones had shown that their owner had lived pass 100.



Are you saying that the product of 63 million years of chemical reactions invented Thou shalt not kill?
This is an integral part of our law system. There are many people who kill other people. If evolution is true as you say and those chemical reactions created this law or gave us the intelligence to know, what have we to say about those who break this rule of evolution(not to kill)? Shall we say they have not reached a higher stage of evolution? If we having evolved have broken these acts, which chemical reactions over millions of years have instilled in our brain and conscience then what have we to say about Jesus Christ. Either he was the most evolved man to enter this planet since he broke none of these rules and is the most intelligent since he knew all of these rules. Either that or he is truly who he said he was "The Son of God". If he being the most intelligent made us all aware of sin, who are you to say no to him.

Thou shalt not kill is only good for co-existence of the same kinds in a group in sustainable environment. If such group encounters a hostile group or the environment becomes unsustainable, the rule will never apply.

Do you know that Jesus killed millions of benign bacteria for every second of his existence? Do you know that you are doing the same thing in the name of self-defense declared by your immune system?

If we can create law, we can break it. Simple as that. Who says evolution can't break existing laws? If the environment changes, old laws must be broken in order to adapt. That's part of the evolution. Species that extinted is because they can't break old laws.


That person will always have the chance not to turn to Christ and away from sin.

How could someone can turn away from sin when he is sinful in the blink of conception? How could someone can turn to Christ when he doesn't even got any meaningful way to communicate due to genetic flaw?


Friend, you really think he doesn't know about Quantum mechenics? He knows all of these things even before humans discover them.

We'll see in 50 years.


Why do you have so much contempt for your fore fathers? You must invent one before the other. Even the gigahertz processor was not invented before the 486. Nor the transister before the vacuum tube(or whatever its called I forget). Do you share the same contempt for these computer scientists compared to the ones today?

I see the patten of computer evolution here. Do you? Unless you have another name for this kind of step by step advances.


Please go back and read what I said regarding that. Calling outer space, outer space and the heavens is interchangable. You know that. Perhaps you havn't evolved enough to understand.

Heavens = outer space. Living on space station is living in heaven. I am pretty clear here.


Also, I'm sorry to not explain reside. It is hard to explain. God is everywhere, but His dwelling place is in heaven. However, His holy spirit resides in Christians on Earth, but He still know where you are and what you are doing. You can not hide anything from Him.

How wonderful! Yet he can do nothing to stop me. Forget about the judgement day. 2000 years has passed, that rumor starts to wear off already.

[Deadwood]

I see the patten of computer evolution here. Do you? Unless you have another name for this kind of step by step advances.

Who created these computer chips? Was there some sort of intelligence behind these chips? I guess the intelligence behind them hurried up their evolution by at a guess 500 million years. ;)

Of course that was only a guess. ;)

[Tiassa]

I guess the intelligence behind them hurried up their evolution by at a guess 500 million years.

Of course that was only a guess.
Let me throw in the all-important consideration of whether or not a computer chip yet meets our human requirements for recognition as Life.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

[Deadwood]

Unfortunately, carbon dating can only estimate the time when those people lived. In order to tell their age, we need to exam their bone structure and density. From those data, we can tell if it belongs to a child or an adult, a male or a female. And obviously the bone density tells they never lived pass 30's.

Density would only show how much calcium the person had. We even have bone density tests today.

About your dating story from your link, obviously the guy didn't use scientific method to test the sample. Normally, if the result disagree with the testing, he should collect more sample from the same area to do more testing. But he insists the result he got at the first time is the correct one. Sigh...

This is from page 1, but I think it is worthy of note.

Lets say that there were 3 samples taken from the 1 specimen. The first test came out as 3000 years. The second came out as 50000 years. And the third came out as 63 million years. As you said, the guy only used one sample from the same area. Well what if he got others from the same area and they showed different results? Which one of the above should we believe? If only one sample is flawed, what would make this happen. Could it be a flaw in carbon dating perhaps?

Let me throw in the all-important consideration of whether or not a computer chip yet meets our human requirements for recognition as Life.

I am just saying that we know that a computer chip was created by outside intelligence. However, would you expect the chances to be the same that a computer chip would develop over millions of years as humans supposedly have? Actually looking at the complexity of the simplest cell you can see that it is more complex than LA. This includes the telephone and electrical lines, sanitation, roads etc.

Therefore, a computer chip being exponentially(that is an understatement) less complex than the simplest cell would have statistically better chances of being created. There is more than enough silicon and metals in the Earth to make that happen, but why didn't it?

Why was something so much more complex evolved instead. In fact, something so complex when just looking inside actually would also have to evolve to cope with the outside world. Its food source, other cells of the body, which are specialized, its size, the list goes on. To create a human brain. Now that was a wonderful random act of nature wasn't it? So when abouts in the million years cycle did this happen?

If I were an evolutionist, I would strongly consider adding about 100000 billion years on to the Earths age. This would make more sense.

[rde]

Originally posted by Deadwood
I am just saying that we know that a computer chip was created by outside intelligence. However, would you expect the chances to be the same that a computer chip would develop over millions of years as humans supposedly have? Actually looking at the complexity of the simplest cell you can see that it is more complex than LA. This includes the telephone and electrical lines, sanitation, roads etc.

Therefore, a computer chip being exponentially(that is an understatement) less complex than the simplest cell would have statistically better chances of being created. There is more than enough silicon and metals in the Earth to make that happen, but why didn't it?

sigh...
Okay. Consider the following...
A cell is incredibly complex. However, it's composed of bits that are composed of less complex bits, which are themselves composed of less complex bits...
Which of the following do you think is impossible?
-Hydrogen forming
-Stars creating heavier elements
-Those elements combining into more complex - but still very simple - molecules and compounds
-Those simple compounds combining to form more complex compounds and molecules

And so on, and on...
The main reason - I think - that people have so much problem with this approach is they don't appreciate a) probability and b) deep time. If people had a better understanding of probability, they wouldn't buy lottery tickets. If they understood deep time better, they'd accept that evolution isn't just a nice theory, it's inevitable

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by Deadwood

Density would only show how much calcium the person had. We even have bone density tests today.

But do you know that old people have less bone density? That's why besides the size of the bone, it's density can used to estimate the owner's age.


Lets say that there were 3 samples taken from the 1 specimen. The first test came out as 3000 years. The second came out as 50000 years. And the third came out as 63 million years. As you said, the guy only used one sample from the same area. Well what if he got others from the same area and they showed different results? Which one of the above should we believe? If only one sample is flawed, what would make this happen. Could it be a flaw in carbon dating perhaps?

If carbon dating was invented yesterday, then such inconsistent results will definitely indicate some kind of error in the method. However, that's not true. People use carbon dating because it shows consistent result in countless testings in the pass. It's like when manufacturing calculators. If a few of them do 1+1 equal 3, do you consider the math 1+1=2 is flawed somehow?