Orrin Hatch considers programs to destroy computer of people Illegaly DL'ing stuff

[river-wind]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6241-2003Jun17.html


holy crap!!! When did it become ok for a copyright holder to enact vengance themselves on people who had broken the copy right? If I were to publish a book, and you photocopied it to give to your friend, could I come over to your house and take a baseball bat to your xerox machine? How the hell could this even be considered?

I swear I put this in free thoughts. how did it end up here? I guess it makes sence here too. Politics forums might be even better, though.


edit: oops

[Prosoothus]

It's Orrin Hatch, not Warren Hatch.

[river-wind]

Originally posted by Prosoothus
It's Orrin Hatch, not Warren Hatch.


d'oh I feel dumb. thanks hmmm, how do I edit the thread title? edit: thanks to whomever edited the thread title :)

[Thaug]

Is he talking about a virus that would just delete windows or something?

[river-wind]

he doesn't seem to specify, just uses the word "destroy" a few times. I hope he was trying to make apoint, and wasn't serious.


It frightens me that this would even be a considered as a possible idea at this point, though...


My main problem is this:
what If I had a kid, and he/she snuck home from school to use my work-purchased machine to download copyrighted stuff? The RIAA comes in and destroys my machine per this idea.
Now we have a legal entity destroying the property of another legal entity due to the actions of a non-related (to the owning entity) minor. that would be a fun lawsuit.


One thing someone said in ref to this was: "I guess we should destroy cars as soon as the owner drives them over the speed limit more than 2 times. considering that speeding is a known cause of accidents, and it can deprive people of their safety..."

[goofyfish]

Naturally, pundits and peers came crawling out of the woodwork
immediately to clarify Hatch's position, but keep your eye on him -
some things can't be unsaid - and this old fart is trouble.

:m: Peace

[Mystech]

He's just another conservative windbag, a crazy old man rambling on and hoping someone will pay attention or take him seriously. There have been threats like this before in regards to software and music piracy, including proposed legislation that all computers in America be sold with unrecoverable spy ware so that the government could know instantly that you've pirated software.

Like the idiotic claims of upper management types in big tech companies, these things are both technically and logistically imposable, they're just trying to stir the waters and scare people.

[Tiassa]

Orrin Hatch comments on copyright enforcement (http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=205147)

With apologies, as it is impossible to avoid quoting the whole thing: Washington - Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, today issued the following statement:

"I am very concerned about Internet piracy of personal and copyrighted materials, and I want to find effective solutions to these problems.

"I made my comments at yesterday's hearing because I think that industry is not doing enough to help us find effective ways to stop people from using computers to steal copyrighted, personal or sensitive materials. I do not favor extreme remedies - unless no moderate remedies can be found. I asked the interested industries to help us find those moderate remedies."Does he realize that "(stopping) people from using computers to steal copyrighted, personal, or sensitive materials" is a war that industry and government are eternally destined to lose?

A number of things come to mind, not the least of which is the idea of putting that kind of technology into the world at all ... can you imagine what hackers could do with that kind of a weapon? Thank you, Senator Hatch, for raising the issue in the first place.

Imagine the Pentagon, on the eve of war, catching the backlash from some brilliant hacker ....

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

[StrangeDays]

Since media files are non-executable, I don't see any way to use them for virus distribution. I suppose that MSoft could enhance Media Player so that it reformats the hard drive if you try to play a media file that doesn't have a valid digital signature, but then people would just start using a different media player.

Any attempts to thwart the copying of digital information will be circumventable. Look at DVD copy protection. It's about as effective as a poodle guarding a bank vault. I think the only way to curb piracy is to make legitimate products so accessible and so cheap that people won't be tempted to pirate.

[Voodoo Child]

http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59305,00.html

Oops, Hatch was using unlicenced code. Attack!! Attack!!

What a jerkoff.

[Tiassa]

Since media files are non-executable, I don't see any way to use them for virus distribution. I suppose that MSoft could enhance Media Player so that it reformats the hard drive if you try to play a media file that doesn't have a valid digital signature, but then people would just start using a different media player.What about when WinMedia launches your browser (Internet Explorer, not the default) in order to launch advertisements embedded in some media files?

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

[Mystech]

The senator's site makes extensive use of a JavaScript menu system developed by Milonic Solutions, a software company based in the United Kingdom. The copyright-protected code has not been licensed for use on Hatch's website.

"It's an unlicensed copy," said Andy Woolley, who runs Milonic. "It's very unfortunate for him because of those comments he made."

Haha, ohh it's just too ironic, there is no sanity left in the world!

[Mystech]

Originally posted by tiassa
What about when WinMedia launches your browser (Internet Explorer, not the default) in order to launch advertisements embedded in some media files?

Yes, this is exactly what he's talking about. The media file is non executeable, but windows media player certainly is, and so it can also launch other programs if it likes (such as the browser). As such it could technicaly be modified to format your hard drive. Though how in gods name it would be able to tell a pirated music file from one obtained legaly is completely beyond me, and the obvious work around would simply to use a different media player. There are only about half a million of them out there.

[Voodoo Child]

It gets even better.

This article: http://theregister.co.uk/content/6/31324.html

Tells us that Hatch's senate site has links to porn.

You can't find the page anymore, however Google's cache of it is here:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:DsEbIR8MVosJ:www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm%3FFuseaction%3DStudents.Utah+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Click on the MyUtahSearch.com logo

[Mystech]

Huge natural titties @ bignaturals.com!

Haha, wow, I can't even begin to imagine how that link got on a senators website.

[Eyemarten]

Consider this....

The loose wording in the proposed Bills/Acts/etc has been designed to give the RIAA and others (copyright holders and those empowered by the copyright holders)[<= not a quote] the right to intrude into systems in which a copyrighted file is suspected to be.

Copyright holders? Can't we all be copyright holders? What stops us from copyrighting meaningless garbage and using it as a valid legal excuse to hack anyone anywhere?

I personally have copyrighted a CD of original music some 2 years ago. If the RIAA and others have their way, I will have a legal right to intrude on anyone's computer.

Anyone else?

[Eyemarten]

Originally posted by Thaug
Is he talking about a virus that would just delete windows or something?

That is not a viris...that is a godsend for us mac users. ;)

[Redoubtable]

Originally posted by tiassa
A number of things come to mind, not the least of which is the idea of putting that kind of technology into the world at all ... can you imagine what hackers could do with that kind of a weapon? Thank you, Senator Hatch, for raising the issue in the first place.


Oh please, Tiassa . . . Hackers can already make viruses that pernicious . . . viruses that erase hard drives, that totally ruin systems . . . they aren't exactly space age "technology"

Besides, who do you think these companies would hire to do the dirty-work?

Originally posted by StrangeDays
I suppose that MSoft could enhance Media Player so that it reformats the hard drive if you try to play a media file that doesn't have a valid digital signature

Well . . . then some ace would edit the Media Player itself, getting rid of whatever programming caused the reformatting reaction you described. I'm sure everyone would get their grubby paws on the new, cleansed version in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by Mystech
Haha, ohh it's just too ironic, there is no sanity left in the world!

I think the Senator just doesn't know anything about the area into which he's wading with such boldness.
Originally posted by Mystech
Though how in gods name it would be able to tell a pirated music file from one obtained legaly is completely beyond me . . .

There is something they call "digital signature," though I really don't know what it's supposed to be. I guess it's just some kind of identification embedded into the media file and accessible only to the folks who know about it . . . :bugeye:

[Tiassa]

Oh please, Tiassa . . . Hackers can already make viruses that pernicious . . . viruses that erase hard drives, that totally ruin systems . . . they aren't exactly space age "technology" Oh, give me an effing break, Redoubtable. Regulated technological standards designed to be destructive would make insanely vicious weapons in the hands of the dirtiest hackers. Hackers go above and beyond existing standards with much of the more destructive work. So with a candy-light "vaporize" button available ... I think you're underestimating the potential of the situation in order to have an excuse to sound scornful and puff out your chest a little.

Anything digital can be hacked.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

[Redoubtable]

There is nothing these regulated technological standards could do that cannot already be done without them. A glowing "vaporize" button isn't going to make viruses any more powerful.

I will admit that a glowing button would make it simpler for people who aren't cracking adepts to zap others, but that's the frequency of the crime, not the magnitude.

[Mystech]

I think the point is that if your computer has a built in self destruct mechanism, then it's going to be a lot easier for ANYONE to blow up your computer, or whatever. It's just bad business!