An Analogy Regarding Marijuana:

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by wesmorris, Jun 14, 2003.

  1. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    I am on an earnest quest to understand the basis of consciousness. I've found that I can see the shapes behind the vail if I turn on a fan an point blow it around until the edges are exposed.

    edit: (maybe it just blows? hehe)

    EDIT: 'pot puts the sheet on the ghost of consciousness'
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2003
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  3. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe too much :m:

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  5. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I'd heard O'Reilly today saying that for him to accept the legitimization of marijuana he'd have to see some potential "good" benefit for society. I've just been pondering a way to explain it to someone who can't understand it because they've never been there. Looking for ways it might 'improve society' in some manner that a religious conservative intellectual might be able to value. Then it occured to me that uhm.. well, I only notice things about things sometimes once they change. For instance.. I wouldn't know I had glasses on except for the glare ya know? Yet they're there and they bend light to improve my vision at a distance. It's change in conscoiusness that allows one to more readily observe consciousness in action..

    at least that's what I was thinking.
     
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  7. kazakhan Registered Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    I think the best benefit for everyone is cost. It costs taxpayers money to police it, how much does that cost? The user is always paying too much

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    So far the only negative I can see is the costs on the health industry, but it already costs them doesn't it, like tobacco?
    The question is, why was it made illegal in the first place? Who benefited from that? If it was legal then I probably wouldn't have to smoke it, eventually healthier ways to get high would become available.

    Off Topic:
    Why doesn't my signature etc show up in my posts?
     
  8. NenarTronian Teenaged Transhumanist Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not so sure how to convert the "all drugs are evil types" into "marijuana's okay" types you know? When confronted with a fundamentalist christian RETARD, i myself do not try to justify my occasional indulgence in marijuana. I usually say something "I can't justify getting high, i just like it, and i don't hurt anybody by doing it." Otherwise, i could arrgue for hours and hours, but with some people no matter how much you argue, no matter how many good points you make, they will always be right, and you will always be wrong. I'm sure you know what i mean...
     
  9. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Wesmorris

    (after your sentence structure overcooked my noodles in another post, a big strain.....but doable... dont expect usable wording...)
    K, how ab this: Witches claimed they had visions after taking some herbs (drugs); there were magicians/psychics who had their visions after taking some herbs (drugs), and claimed that these experiences opened truths ab the universe (look into books on magic, more serious ones taht mention famous people). By the same token, drugs may enhance religious experiences for christians. Go on from there.
     
  10. cthulhus slave evil servant Registered Senior Member

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    i dont condone weed. i dont advocate it. i dont love it. nore despize it.

    dont realy care.

    but good point. why is it illigall? costs mony to catch and lock people up. and they could tax the dope. besides ppl are gonna do it no matter what. so it would just be safer it it were legal and had restictions than all out against the law.

    ;edited for typos;


    *bloody blades and bleedings lips. dieing soldiers sinking ships*
     
  11. jps Valued Senior Member

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    Thats a pretty ridiculous position for someone to take given that marijuana really has no negative impact beyond those associated with inhaling any kind of smoke.
     
  12. Halcyon Guest

    Well, by that statement, the bad effects still outweigh the good.
     
  13. jps Valued Senior Member

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    campfires should be banned too then...how often does the smoke froma campfire blow into someones face?

    the positive effects of marijuana aside from its huge number of industrial and medical uses
    are relaxation, increased appreciation of music, increased appreciation of food, and increased appreciation of humor.
     
  14. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    From personal observation I disagree, it can have a negative impact on a person’s mental state (thought comparable to alcohol).

    Considering the current New York stance on smoking I get the feeling that policy moderation is not in the US nature. I’ve heard that the same attitude is being taken in A’dam, threatening to close down the coffee shops to protect the workers health.

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  15. Halcyon Guest

    Back up the truck and stop jumping to conclusions. I never said mj should be banned based on that critera. Heck, I never said I even supported banning it. I was just pointing out your faulty reasoning.

    And faulty it is, so very faulty, that reasoning of yours. I used to be a pot smoker, so don't think I don't know what I'm talking about.

    No negative impact? Besides the fact that one joint has over 400 chemicals, and smoking just one produces the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes, right? Oh, and I'm sure impairing your memory, attention span and ability to learn should be considered a positive aspect, because there certainly aren't any negative aspects to smoking pot. And yes, it aborts pregnancy, but who cares, it's cheaper than surgical abortion! Not to mention the psychological impacts it's been shown to have. I'm so very glad that I quit smoking, because me and those around me tricked ourselves into believing that it was actually doing something good for us.
     
  16. prozak Banned Banned

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    When I was 13, I became pro-legalization. This was six years before I ever tried weed. I did not know at the time I would become a user.

    To me it seems obvious that some people will do some things in any circumstance, so why fight ourselves over them? Weed is no more dangerous than alcohol, and causes fewer deaths; to me it seems obvious to legalize.

    As I've grown older, of course, I've changed. In this case, my realization is thus: hallucinogens open many doors that must then be contemplated, or they are unwieldy and dangerous "little bits" of learning.
     
  17. jps Valued Senior Member

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    i was just pointing out that its not faulty.






    It does have a lot of chemicals. I'm sure the smoke from a campfire does too. The rest of that isn't true. Some of those things used to be used by the prohibition forces but they've all been thoroughly discredited now.
     
  18. Halcyon Guest

    Show me where it's ever been discredited by anyone with any authority to speak on the subject.

    9% of users become dependant

    The fact that marijuana deposits as much as four times the amount of tar and chemicals into the smoker's lung than cigarettes has never been disproven. I challenge you to come up with any medical study the proves otherwise.

    A report from the Institute of Medicine, IOM, shows that for each of the symptoms that medical marijuana is used to abate, there are several other drugs that are equally and/or highly more effective. Though it should be noted that not all medications work for everyone, the margin of people that would actually need medical marijuana due to the ineffectiveness of other drugs is relatively small.

    It is also well documented that, although reversible, THC inhibits reproductive functions.

    I don't know where you got that information about all that stuff being disproven, but I'd think twice before accepting it as gospel. Not only is this information verified by the Institue of Medicine's most recent study on the topic, but the information is even supported by the internet's largest advocate for legalization of the drug; marijuana.com.
     
  19. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Tell that to my two kids! ARGH!!!

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  20. Halcyon Guest

    I said:

    And I also said "inhibits", not "prevents."


    Now, it has been shown that the when the cannibinoid receptors in an undeveloped fetus are activated, abortive pregnancy frequently occurs. The number of abortive pregnancies is significantly higher in women who smoke marijuana during pregnancy than those who don't. A lot of the times, the abortion occurs when the fetus is so undeveloped that the mother isn't even aware fo the pregnancy.
     
  21. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Relax bro, I was just making a silly comment. I understand the difference between inhibit and prevent.

    Further, I NEVER smoked when I was pregnant.

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  22. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    I guess I have to accept that my point isn't really interesting. While you're (posters in this thread) addressing pertinent issues, I find the part about problem solving to be more interesting. I'm curious if anyone sees the point about altered consciousness.

    To an extent I think temporary conditions altering consciousness is a very good thing. One of the main reasons is a fundamantal deal with perspective. To me, having my consciousness altered to an extent has as many or more benefits in terms of enhancing my comprehension of things I'm interested in than never doing so. I mean, if you don't ever alter your consciousness how do you know what if feels like if it's done... how can you find the extents? If you don't know what's possible, how can you really understand the experience of living?

    Hmm.. I say all that, but I really think it's a perfectly fine option never to do any kind of mind altering drug. Whatever really. It's not right though to impose that perspective on everyone else when by definition you really don't know what you're talking about? Fuck I'm rambling. Try again later.
     
  23. Halcyon Guest

    For what it's worth, wes, I completely agree with you.

    I have a habit of being pretty serious when in debate, I tend to miss that other people aren't quite as serious.

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