Nefertiti or not Nefertiti, that is the question!

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by SG-N, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. SG-N Registered Senior Member

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    Nefertiti was a pretty woman that had lots of power. She was married to a powerful pharaho that "changed" the official religion and moved its capital city. After its death and after Nefertiti had been linked to the murder of her husband's successor, she was "banned".
    Thus, when Joann Fletcher (Discovery Channel) says that she found Nefertiti's mummy in the Valley of the Kings, doubts are allowed. Is it for publicity? Does she really believe that she found Nefertiti?
    IMAO, it's not Nefertiti... (other opinion)

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2003
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  3. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    Nefertiti schmefertiti

    My favorite Pharaoh is Ahkenaten (or a name close to that). He established the first monotheistic religion, tried to build this huge city devoted to his god and had statues built of him that more-or-less accurately represented his body type. He was a chubby fella. While every other Pharaoh that was written about was glorified beyond belief in ancient egypt, what remains of Ahkenaten's reign suggests that he wasn't into the whole "I'm the greatest thing that has ever existed" fad. When he died the priests that worshipped traditional ancient-egyptian polytheism got pissed off and tried to destroy everything that he created. But some of it survived. His son was Tutankamen. I tend to think of him as more of "the hippy Pharaoh."

    (this is all from personal knowledge, by the way. I was into Ancient Egypt for awhile, but some of the info may be off/exaggerated)
     
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  5. SG-N Registered Senior Member

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    Akhenaton was her husband...
     
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  7. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    Learn something new every day.
     
  8. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    Hmmm, question for people, the article which SG-N posted says that ‘DNA test used to compare unknown mummies to those belonging to identified members of the royal family also would not help because Nefertiti came from outside the royal family.’ Could one not use mitochondrial DNA in that case and test the six daughters? I was trying to find out if their bodies have been found, but it seems like no one is really sure of who’s who. . .

    I’ve also heard that British and US Egyptologists tend to have different views of Egypt through their own social glasses. Can that be seen in this case?
     
  9. SG-N Registered Senior Member

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    It's just a mummy with no name, so it will be very hard to prove that it's Nefertiti. A way to do it would be to use both DNA and Carbon14 (if there's DNA from Nefertiti's family - her son was a pharaho too, no?). Your idea seems to be a good one : mitochondrial DNA is interesting because it is transmitted by the mother but I don't know if you can say if it's the mother or the daughter...
     
  10. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    From what I could tell, she only had daughters, and Tutankamen. was a son by another wife. They think that Tutankamen later married one of his half sisters, thought I'm not sure they had any surviving children.

    I think they are going to have to settle this by DNA, both maternal and paternal. But this may raises interesting questions since it revels ‘true’ parentage and not that of social relations as the case of incest and cuckoldry.
     
  11. twobob Registered Senior Member

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    Its also believed that the persecution of Nefers and a Aken's followers were the begining of the jewish peoples
    , remember the water parting and let my people go ?
    Also" Ahmen " is still said after evry prayer, which was Akhenhatens original name (Ahmenhaten).
     
  12. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    as far as the OED says, amen is,

    [a. L. (or Fr.) mn, a. Gr. , a. Heb. -mn, ‘certainty, truth,’ f. vb. man to strengthen, confirm; used adverbially ‘certainly, verily, surely’ as an expression of affirmation, consent, or ratification of what has been said by another (Deut. xxvii. 26, 1 Kings i. 36); adopted in Gr. by the LXX., whence in N.T., and in early Christian use, in Gr. and L., as a solemn expression of belief, affirmation, consent, concurrence, or ratification, of any formal utterance made by a representative; thus with prayers, imprecations, confessions of faith. App. not so used in OE., but transl. by Sólice!, Swá hit ys or sý! Added however as a concluding formula to Luke and John in the Ags. Gospels.]

    I am not sure if Ahemn and Amen are the same word in Hebrew, and to make a connection between the two, one would have see if the Jews used Amen at the end of the their prayers prior to arriving in Egypt.

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  13. twobob Registered Senior Member

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    Prior to arriving in Egypt ?
    could you please tell me the history of Jewish migration to Egypt ?
     
  14. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    It was just a suggested method of inquiry, but I see the point that it was only in Egypt that the 12 tribes of Judaism started to be formed.

    As far as I can gather it’s though that it was Akhenaton that Moses and the Jews fled from. It does seem strange that the Jews would end their prayers with a reference to someone they wanted to escape from. (In Akhenaton’s monotheist religion God is called Aten, not Amen.)

    I was confused because I knew that Egypt had synagogues and that this would have meant that if the exodus had happened with Moses, then they must have returned, and it could have been at that point that Ahemn started to be used. Thought I do remember reading that the oldest prayer which contains a large number of ‘Amens’ was written in Aramaic, not Hebrew. –all too complicated for me.

    ‘Our evidence for ancient Judaism, like our sources for ancient Israelite religion, comes almost entirely from the Hebrew Bible. The Torah or "Five Books of Moses", Judaism's most sacred text, reached its final written form by around 400BCE, while most of the other biblical texts had gained quasi-canonical status by about 200BCE. During this period the Second Temple was built at Jerusalem and the small state of Judaea established there under the protection of the Persian government. There were also thriving Jewish communities in Egypt, Babylonia and elsewhere in the diaspora, where alternative beliefs and institutions, including the synagogue, were also developing, and Aramaic and Greek replaced Hebrew as the main languages of the Jews. http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/judaism/ancjud.html
     
  15. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    Jews migrated to Egypt?

    Egypt is where the Hebrews started. Their tribe was the Hibiru.
     
  16. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    Is that accepted by Jewish historians?
     
  17. twobob Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Jews migrated to Egypt?

    is that accepted by historians ?
     
  18. SG-N Registered Senior Member

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    Anything to do with Nefertiti? If you want to find the origin of the jews' community, you could make a new thread... That could be interesting...

    Thanks for Nefertiti

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  19. twobob Registered Senior Member

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    Nefertiti and Ahkenaten...I still feel their glow

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    heretics will always be condemned ..but ,like jesus trashing the moneylenders stalls, I guess I stand tall with Nefers's,Ahken, et all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2003
  20. Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    Her name is not Never titi is it??

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  21. fredx Banned Banned

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    SG-N, I agree with you, I don't think it was her. Queens wear veils and back then they did not have smooth skin and features (its the opposite now). What they found was the bust of a slave. Perhaps, an imperial decoy, a Padme, if I could use an analogy from the movies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2003
  22. weebee Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry for the side line. It kind of linked with the theory that as Ahkenaten and Nefertiti brought about a monotheistic religious system which was shattered when they died, and that they ‘Jews’ were thought to have ‘fled’ Egypt at this time.

    I thought the bust of Nefertiti, unearthed near the modern city of Tell el-Amarna was accepted as hers since it is similar to the other representations of her on coins. ‘ It is evident from the art of the Amarna period that the court officially emulated the king's unusual physical characteristics. Thus individuals such as the young princesses are endowed with elongated skulls and excessive adiposity, while Bek-the Chief Sculptor and Master of Works-portrays himself in the likeness of his king with pendulous breasts and protruding stomach. On a stele now in Berlin Bek states that he was taught by His Majesty and that the court sculptors were instructed to represent what they saw. The result is a realism that breaks away from the rigid formality of earlier official depictions, although naturalism is very evident in earlier, unofficial art. Although the famous bust of Nefertiti in Berlin, the queen is not subject to quite the same extremes as others in Amarna art, by virtue of being elegantly female. Indeed, there are several curious aspects of Nefertiti's representations. In the early years of Akhenaten's reign, for instance, Nefertiti was an unusually prominent figure in official art, dominating the scenes carved on blocks of the temple to the Aten at Karnak. One such block shows her in the age-old warlike posture of pharaoh grasping captives by the hair and smiting them with a mace hardly the epitome of the peaceful queen and mother of six daughters. Nefertiti evidently played a far more prominent part in her husband's rule than was the norm.’ http://www.geocities.com/egyptemb/history/akhen.html


    the mummy thought could be hers or could not…only DNA will tell

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  23. Avenueoflight Registered Member

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    Amen, The priests of Amen...

    I have searched this for years trying to prove the word Amen was changed for 'so be it. At the end of most peoples prayers, Amen the "SUN" deity(representing Lucifer//Satan is being worshiped instead of the Lord Jesus Christ or His Father.The geatest temple made by man (Karnac) Amen was worshiped! The brightest light in the heavens(SUN) was choosen to represent him(Lucifer) as the regenerative-life-giving force, thus denying the Lord .This human representative was//is titled "Pontifex Maximus". Every Pharoh, Caesar, Pope all carried//carry this title which means: (god-man on earth). I have been sent proof which is partially listed by another in this thread; but the important fact of the matter has been left out; this being the proof it was changed at least in 950 from LATIN!
    I personally believe it goes back at least to Constintine/Euscebius when the true Seventh-Day Sabbath(Saturday) was changed to the first day of the week(SUN-day)! // The Venerable Day OF THE "SUN"!
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