In the movie he compare the murder rate by gun of some of the powerful first world countries. He gave us the number of murder not comparing to population, I thought this was a flaw so I got the numbers and compare it for my self... _______Gun Murders__Population___Ratio___Compared America__11,127_____291,114,064__3.82E-05__7.30 Canada__165________31,499,560___5.24E-06__1.00 Germany_381________82,797,408___4.60E-06__0.88 France___255________59,329,691___4.30E-06__0.82 Australia_65_________19,833,950___3.28E-06__0.63 England__68________59,511,464___1.14E-06__0.22 Japan____39________126,549,976__3.08E-07__0.06 So we have 7.3 times the murder by gun rate of Canada (the 2nd highest) yep the movie was right we are one @#$%ed up nation!
Why does a high murder rate mean we're fucked up? Maybe we're just aggressive (look at the approval ratings for Operation whatever the fuck they named the recent "war" with Iraq)
Well you don’t think are murder rate being so incredibly high is a problem? Do you not think it would be nice to know why it’s that high? Or at the very least reduce it? What the heck does the popularity of operation “Something or Another” have to do with anything? I'm trying to understand the reasons for our social problems, the cause for our murder rate is a good start.
WellCookedFetus: Not really, anything that gets rid of surplus population is fine by me. True, but your post was about guns, not about "why the murder rate is so high" I think it was "Enduring Freedom". Or maybe "Everlasting Freedom". Or "Four legs good, two legs bad". Whatever. America is the world's superpower, yes? Russia is fairly impotent and China is still a rising star. The EU is not yet, and no one European nation contends for the status of superpower. America (if we are to believe your statistics) has a very high murder rate compared to socially simular nations (Canada, Britain). What drives a nation to become a superpower? A national desire for power and a disregard for how power is achieved, yes? What drives a person to kill? Now do you see the connection? I don't claim that Nietzsche's theory that powerful nations are often internally violent as well is correct, but I do see a connection.
It was not about guns! it was about murder by guns or the statitic form "Bowling for Columbine" that I was testing. So your saying that our societies problem is social-psychological and that we have a ego trip problem? I could buy that. The movies seem very intent on blaming it on fear pumping media, lack of social medical coverage, lack of neighborliness and racism all of which combine don’t seem to add up to me.
Fetus and Xev, I can see both points to why an increase in murders - the media thing and being a superpower. What I think is behind both is fear. The media is very good at playing on fears, causing people to become more cautious and hostile in order to "protect themselves". Also, if you are in a postion of extreme power, there is extreme fear of being toppled. Violence is an effective tool for maintaining this power. All in all, America is a nation ruled by fear.
WellCookedFetus: Sorry. I don't think that's all of it, but I think it's a factor. Humans are inherently aggressive - there have been few cultures, and no highly developed cultures - that have been non-aggressive. Now why does America have a higher rate of gun violence? Good question. Xenu: Yes, but I doubt that John Q. Murderer is in a "position of extreme power". Having a gun in your hand may make you God (and when I'm God, everyone dies, thank you Mr. Manson), but you're not really in a position of extreme power. Why do you make this assertion?
Xenu, Agreed! I think that we as a nation need to be humble and modest about are country. I mean we think of our self’s as the greatest nation on earth, this is not at all true except only in military power. Economically we are not very far ahead and we are losing ground (mainly to the EU). Technologically many other countries are at par or ahead of us in some areas. Educationally we are one of the most ignorant first world countries around (this I think might be our problem!) and we can only be really thankful that we are a “brain suck” and that all the smart people come here to learn (and hopefully stay). Per capita, Employment, Quality of living, ect, ect, we are one of the highest but not THE HIGHEST. As the last superpower I think are egos are way over inflated and we are seen by the rest of the world as arrogant monopolizing bullies, this though is not true of most of are citizen (I would have to add stupid in) but is totally true of are government ever since the end of WW2! This is why people hate us and bomb and terrorize us, not because there fuck up but because we helped fuck them up! I think the only way for us to remain powerful is to get ride of are superpower statues through major government change and policy change, this though as the same chance of happening as a monkey flying out of my ass!, well at lest as long as the top 2 parties are in power (again the chances of a 3rd party taking power are equal to a anal launched flying monkey.)
<i>What drives a nation to become a superpower? A national desire for power and a disregard for how power is achieved, yes?</i> No. That's far too simplistic. In fact, many factors combine to make a country a superpower. Accidents of geography, amount of arable land and number of native domesticable species are just a few. I suggest you take a look at Jared Diamond's <i>Guns, Germs and Steel</i>. <i>What drives a person to kill?</i> Again, many factors.
James R, I think she meant something in the lines of "What drives a group of people to want to become a superpower", rather than "What are the factors of a nation in becoming a superpower".
Xev, I would like to pose a different definition of aggression. Biologically aggression is physical action towards a goal/end - approaching energy. So yes, pounding someone's face in is aggression, but so is taking a walk. All organism's are aggressive by nature, it's survival. Violence is purposeful aggression that's acted on another organism unwantingly, causing it physical harm. So pricking my sister's toe when she isn't looking is a form of violence (if she considers it harmful). Two boxer beating the crap out of each other isn't so violent, because it's agreed on. These are the clearest definitions that I've encountered, and because I define them this way I think aggression is needed (provides energy) for violence (among all human actions), but aggression doesn't lead to violence. My chain of reasoning in my first post was unclear, sorry. What I mean to say is that violence doesn't stem from power, but from fear in general. When you have a nation on top of the pile like the US, there is fear of being knocked off that top position. Yes, this fear causes the US government to act out violently towards other countries (to "preserve freedom" and such), but the fear of the nation (from losing power) is also passed down to the masses, like we've seen in the past few years (911, anthrax scares, SARS, terrorists, etc.). This fear only adds onto their other daily personal fears. Because it's my opinion. I'd say *all* humans are ruled by fear to a fair extent. Fear merely causes energy, and a need to correct or assimulate the situation. The organism, at a basic level, chooses to fight, flight, or do nothing. Sometimes what is labeled as "fighting" is violent, because the organism is protecting its means of survival (physical/mental), and to do so may involve harming another. Because of our "advanced" human evolution, seemingly trivial things become very important for survival - things get blown out of proportion, but the same survival feelings surface. But these aren't all the factors, however I'd say the major ones.
Basiclly i thinkthe whole reason people kill others with guns is 1. its fast than almost anything else u could do 2. Humans seem 2 have this idea that if u make ur problem go away, it's going 2 stay gone. so if u killthe person that causing u trouble, in some fashion thats getting rid of ur problem isnt it? 3. almost 4got....some people just like death in general and dont care what they go through 2 cause it.
The guns aren’t the problem… they’re just the symptom. From the movie all the above countries also have lots of guns, violent movies and games, gothic rock stars, violent histories, large ethnic groups, poverty, lack of prayer in school, ect just about everything we blame our violent youth insanity problems on yet they have at the very highest (Canada) 1/7 the murder by gun rate that we have! So why can they buy guns to hunt yet we are much more prone to buy guns to kill people? I want someone with a sociology major to do this for their PHD thesis and compare hundreds of countries and hundreds of possible factors and find the reason or reasons scientifically for why we have such a high murder rate.
I wonder if American's in general are as stupid and narcissistic as they are made out to be in media? I mean, when you see an American they all shout some stupid shit like "I LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE" etc etc. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Maybe some of you Americans could answer this.
I wish I knew why we had such crazy murder rates. Look at japan for christ sake...39 gun murders!?!? I tend to think it is how we are conditioned in the US with things like...'every man for himself'...'you can do whatever you dream of'... I dunno...I dont think it is the movies or video games and stuff. I think it is more of a fascination with the #1...with celebrities...with winning everytime...with unreasonable expectations. I am just rambling, maybe I made sense somewhere.
Captain, you're making sense. It is sense that is fading in America. It seems like the media is erasing it.
Maybe Americans feel they're just "entitled?" I mean America is the self-professed "number 1" so why shouldn't each and every American be able to be "number 1?" And screw you if you disagree, I'll shoot you in the face! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yeah I think it is flawed. The ratio of Gun killings to population doesn't say all that much. What about percentage of the population who are gun owners?! If one gun kills more than ten people then the statistics are meaningless.
