love is knowing?

[Mephura]

This is my first thread here, and hopefully, I don't come off as a complete moron. This is just an idea that came to me one night. Let me know what you think.
(btw, its a bit Eva inspired.)

Ok, this idea is a little hard for me to explain, so the way i present it might jump around a bit.

Imagine a world where it is possible to know someone totally. All of their memories, thoughts, ideas, oppinions, etc could be shared. By doing so you would change who you are through the understanding of everything this person had gone through. All of their feelings would become, in part, your own.

Now imagine a world where everyones ideas and thought are shared like that, with no way of blocking yourself from it. In essence, The whole population would be one mind, one being. What would happen? There would be no hate, no love, no emotion really, because everything would be known by the whole. In the end emotion would simply end.

Now then imagine you have this choice right now. I'm not saying a choice to make the whole world a 'hive mind', or to somehow psychically bond yourself with some one else for ever, but to get to know at least one person that way. for just an instant. Would anything stop you? I say yes. Fear would stop you.

You see, I think that in some way it is possible to know some one that well, at least briefly, and in doing so you loose part of who you were before. But, much like a survival instinct the mind will rebel against this because in a way it is like a small death and rebirth.

Back to the original idea though. If you were to 'know' some one like that, and they were to know you, you would both change. In fact, you would become like two parts of one being. They would understand each other and accept each other.

My idea is that this kind of exchange is possible, but the fear in our minds relates this to death, and thus tries to avoid it. Fear is what prevents us from loosing ourselves, and at the same time prevents us from ever truely knowing one another.

just an idea.

[Siddhartha]

I believe the fear is not fear of death, but fear of rejection. I have been intensely in love before, and despite the fact that the person knows me so well, and trust the kind of person I am, I could never bring myself to tell them some of the things I have done.

[Mephura]

(slightly inebriated, sorry)

Thats the kind of knowing i'm talking about though. the kind where you would and do tell them any and everything.

Reguardless though, the fear of rejection definately a part of things. I think i'm trying to talk about after rejection isn't an issue, if that time ever comes. Then again, this whole idea belongs in the realm of psychology/phylosophy, so
1. well never really know and
2. things differ for everyone.

anyway, thanks for the view point.

[Xev]

My idea is that this kind of exchange is possible, but the fear in our minds relates this to death, and thus tries to avoid it. Fear is what prevents us from loosing ourselves, and at the same time prevents us from ever truely knowing one another.

This is very interesting - do you think that this is why sex and death are linked?

But I don't know if it's just fear. Even if you're willing to "share everything", how? Communication, yes? But communication is always difficult - how do you convey something as intensely personal as yourself to someone who is never going to exactly be you?

"In love there is union into a single being for a short time only, capable of only one thought, one sensation, one will, in order to be then further disunited."
--Sacher-Masoch

The issue at stake isn't simply fear, but the complete inability to ever fully empathize with another person. Love, I agree, is the dependant on the ability to empathize with the beloved - but I doubt union is ever perfect, even in sex. Skin and language seperate us.

[Mephura]

What you have pointed out is where the flaw in the whole idea dwells. That kind of understanding/communication i was talking about is probably impossible for us. However, the over all idea, that understanding and empathizing with some one to a higher level is the basis of love and that a over deleloped fear of death is what hinders that, is what i was trying to get across.

Its hard to convey this small part of the idea outside of the context it was originally thought up in. Too bad i can only vaguely remember the whole thing. It was somethign about fear keeping our 'consciousness' seperate from that of everyone else. With out that fear we would all be one and lose what it was that make us human, that being our differing view points. However, if that fear can be lessened and overcome (to a small extent) between two people, love would result.

What can i say. It was late and i had Eva on the brain.

[Mephura]

6am..need sleep soon.....

anyway, the old couple thing is kinda what i'm talknig about.
As for the others, I don't think you are completely understanding what i was trying to get at. Then again, i don't think i understand what i was getting at either right now.

What i was refering to (i think) was a subconscious fear. Like breathing water. If you suddenly could breath water, but didn't know it, do you think you would eer find out? I'm guessing no, because most people would be affraid to try. Even if you knew for a fact that you could, most of us would still be fearful of the idea because it is completely alien.

Pride is a learned idea and as such it can be unlearned.

For instance i used to pride myself on being inventive in areas like math. Then i hit 6th grade and realized most of my 'new' ideas had been thought up centuries ago. Now i have no pride in my meager math skill.

Anyway, I'm still happy to get your oppinion.
sleep time now.

[ProCop]

There is a person I know so well as you propose, and know all about him. Him is me 10 years ago. We have (up to a point) identical backgrounds, ideas, girls, but still he is so different from me now that when I eg. read some of his letters I felt sligthly ashamed how supperficial he wrote...if I swaped his existence with mine I wouldn't die surely, on the contrary I would be 10 years younger... but I won't swap with him any way (would it be possible) because he was an idiot....

But in some way I am him sometimes (agaist my will) eg. feeling awkward in a new group - then at moments we are one again.

One egg twins could be interesting to hear on this topic, are there any around?

[Guyute]

What makes a humen being is fear....without it you would not be humen.....and so far as the bonding thing....it would be bad.....people would know things that other people arnt soupposed to know and that causes problems.....it also takes away individualality.....that would suck....i get scared just thinking about it........(shiver)on the other hand EVA Rules!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[Xev]

Who is Eva?

[Guyute]

It is a Anime series......Neon Genesis Evangelion......very high quality....go check it out..:D

[thefountainhed]

Interesting post Meph.

I would classify the fear of rejection, fear of losing your independence, fear of .... as the fear of DEATH of the individual as I think Mephura is trying to convey. Skin is irrelevant as this is a union of minds. The fear of death thereof of the individual is the reason why such union is not possible.

I don't however adhere to the notion that love requires complete understanding or even any understanding at all. You can love someone and understand that you can never understand them at all. I suppose that could be a form of understanding too-- thereby rendering my argument mush; but then again...not really because fundamentally, you misunderstand the other individual. I should really go back to my research.

[Mephura]

thanks thefountainhed,

i think you put it in a way that i wasn't quite hitting.
On the other hand, I do realize that love, when left on a philisophical level and not just a chemical one, does, by necessity, have to be much more complicated than my little idea.