What makes something beautiful?

[Squashbuckler]

It is said that humans enjoy things that are visually pleasing, freud talks about it all the time. But what truly determines what is beautiful? Is beauty REALLY in the eye of the beholder...? or is it learned, or physical?
It reminds me of the scene in american beauty when the kid is shooting a video of the dead bird saying its beautiful.
Do people really see things as beautiful? or do they just say its beautiful because society says so?

does personality also affect that which is beautiful?
Such as..... a man or woman may be visually attractive, but once thier personality comes into play, quite repulsive.
Is beauty purely on an visual level? or does it also encorporate other factors?

-Mark

[ProCop]

A simple explanation of beauty±

symetry / both ears proximately the same big
proportionality - hands not longer then legs
consitence / eg. the same type of the stroke of the brush through all the work
harmony of collors- eg. not yellow and purple together
some single simple idea behind the work-painting eg. `a girl in love`, or ´a tree in autumn`

added may be eg.

a suprise element± eg. disproportionally big eyes in a picture called `questions about light´

a secret element eg some difficult to recognise shape somewhere in the background of the picture.


These above are sort of hints. You can elaborate them at your will. You can develop an soort of artistic feeling eg. by considering the daily situation as subjects for possible paintings. In what composition the unity-disunity of- in eg your family could be expressed so that the viewer would think± this bunch is going to kill one another soon. Well good luck!

[AvatarOfWoe]

i don't believe that people just say something is bueatiful because society says so. then ugly peopel would never get married. haha but really, some people like art and others hate it. yeah personality does affect beauty if you are a mean person you propblily wount find beauty in many things but then there are people who can like in american beauty can see beauty in a dead bird. i think beauty can be seen on many levels, physical, mental but it depends on the framework you havew set up for yourself to judge others.

[SG-N]

If we are talking about visual beauty, I think that it's something we learn and that evolve during our life (due to our personal experiences and due to the fact that we are used to see some kind of "beautiful" things/people).
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"

[Blue_UK]

When you look at a beautiful picture or a terrifying monster, the object does not actually emit waves of pleasure or fear at you.

Clearly there must be some kind of template or set of guidelines to which the stimulus is compared.

The question to me is why does this stimulus give me this sensation? In many instances possible reasons are easy to identify. Such as why do women appear attractive? In an evolutionary point of view it makes sense if members of the opposite sex are attracted and hence a certain template for a woman’s face or shape could quite reasonably develop.

However, I also think templates can be learned as suggested above. Especially in moments of heightened emotion. Many people have a feeling of nostalgia for things that remind them of happy days. It also makes evolutionary sense to learn things that will give pain or happiness - assuming that most of the things that give us happiness are better for survival and those that give pain worse.

[sargentlard]

What makes something beautiful?


Your opinion and your preferences;)

[river-wind]

a shape , taste, sound or sight which evokes more of an emotion or desire in you than it should by it's simple being. That is art. Where the details are aligned such that a cube, correctly composed, can make you cry. that is the art.


the creation makes it possible to be art; the ingestion by the viewer makes it art. and it's different art for every person who sees it. and sometimes, it's not art.


though it seems like occationally, "art" is pushed so hard at us, that we begin to believe it is art, even though it really isn't. we invent uses and meaning for it which aren't really there. this environment is called "Art Class" ;)





as always, my opinion.

[DarkEyedBeauty]

Are we talking about Aesthetics, or Beauty?

Beauty is different. There can be beauty in words, in ideas. Beauty is complexity. Beauty is something different. Beauty strikes us as something fresh, something unusual, something like we haven't seen before. It is a breath of fresh air.

[twobob]

the ball passed to running backs, a slip through the defence and a touchdown in rugby.... Awright, its not everyones idea of beauty, but its mine
and yours is yours

[patty-rick]

Are we talking about Aesthetics, or Beauty?


the beauty you talk of is a perception of aesthetics, asthetics are triggers for personal perception and understanding of concepts images and ideas. Beauty is merely a response from our brain that creates a feeling of awe or appreciation induced by perception of an aesthetic quality.

[wesmorris]

I think there's a lot of hubbub that the "golden ratio" has a lot to do with beauty. I'm not sure if that's a load of numerological crap, but I do remember seeing some thing where some people developed a LOT of information finding that ratio in things generall considered beautiful... like in the faces/bodies of beautiful people/etc. It could be that since this ratio is part of the human experience, we seek to find it in nature and our works.. as such we relate to it as beautiful. Eh, that's just some theory I saw about it. Not sure how true it is.

[notme2000]

I think beauty is in fact a sort of identification with some moment in your life. You see a painting and somehow you identify that painting with a very emotional time in your life, and so you associate the power of emotion with the painting, creating the 'illusion' of beauty.

[ProCop]

I think beauty is in fact a sort of identification with some moment in your life. You see a painting and somehow you identify that painting with a very emotional time in your life, and so you associate the power of emotion with the painting, creating the 'illusion' of beauty.

Nice. I think that the moments which has not (yet) happened can be included in that "recognition". You may then see "you" as yourself whom you (yet) haven't met. eg. the moment when you have killed your dearest dream (eg. Mick Jagger accepting the "sir" title).

[Guyute]

It depends on a persons personality.........everyone is different....if soceity decided what was beautiful and what was not, and a mass amount of people bought into it........well lets not go into how screwed up the world would be. Soceity is screwed up enough as it is, and letting it brainwash people and taking away individualty would make the world one screwed up place.

[Blue_UK]

Would this be a good fundemental definition?

"Beauty is the property of things that stimulate positive emotion"

[DefSkeptic]

BlueUK-

Such as why do women appear attractive? In an evolutionary point of view it makes sense if members of the opposite sex are attracted and hence a certain template for a woman’s face or shape could quite reasonably develop.

I liked how you related the topic to evolutionary psychology.

People dont usually size up a member of the opposite sex with thoughts of their potential to contribute to one's genetic legacy. Humans just feel attracted. I would liken it to a instinctual quality. Or if you prefer, a subconscious drive. All the "thinking" has been done- unconsciously, metaphorically- by natural selection. Genes leading to attractions that wound up being good for one's ancestor's genetic legacies have flourished, and those leading to less productive feelings for attraction have not. Of course, for the most part genes that were coded with deficient potential for attraction were ultimately weeded out long ago, not having a strong desire to have sex would, naturally, be the shortest path to not being able to pass on your legacy through the gene pool.

[patty-rick]

People dont usually size up a member of the opposite sex with thoughts of their potential to contribute to one's genetic legacy


surely then our society built with strong emphasise on the sanctity of marriage and the notion of 2 people bonded to each other then confronts and disagrees with these rules of evolution. If evolution created us in order to have 'couples' in society we would only find one individual attractive. To create humans to find mutliple people attractive for the purpose of procreation, would only serve to encourage some sort of world universal brothel. The fact is humans and i think dolphins, are the only creatures that obtain pleasure from the process of procreation we call sex, therefore we do not nessesarily find people attractive for there ability to provide offspring but rather pleasure, visual pleasure-> emotional pleasure, and physical pleasure.

[Grey Seal]

symmetry makes something beautiful.

[ProCop]

People's feeling to be attracted towards one another is not based on the template of beauty but on the template of sex. Were the beauty of the partner the reason to sex there would be little sexing in general population. Most people are not nice looking. From 100 women one or two are really beautiful, about five looks "nice" and the rest have possibly something nice about them but it is not their looks. You sex because the hormons have momentarily taken over your brains....that's why men feel depressed after sex. Further you want to propose people look at porno because it is beautiful?

[patty-rick]

i think u just discard complelty my above comment, some people could find pornography beautiful , beauty after all is complelty subjective

[Blue_UK]

Originally posted by DefSkeptic
BlueUK-
I liked how you related the topic to evolutionary psychology.
I'll try to get evo into any discussion where possible! As for the 'psychology', I don't pretend to know anything about the actual mechanics of the brain, except for minor details like 'it is a neural network'.People dont usually size up a member of the opposite sex with thoughts of their potential to contribute to one's genetic legacy. Humans just feel attracted...I agree, I didn't think they would. I was talking about how such templates, as I call them, could have arisen.

As you may have noticed, I use selfish gene theory to base most of my points.


Patty-rick, Yup, Humans, Dolphins and Bonobo monkeys (Don't ask me how I know!).

[Blue_UK]

Originally posted by ProCop
People's feeling to be attracted towards one another is not based on the template of beauty but on the template of sex. Were the beauty of the partner the reason to sex there would be little sexing in general population. Most people are not nice looking. From 100 women one or two are really beautiful, about five looks "nice" and the rest have possibly something nice about them but it is not their looks. You sex because the hormons have momentarily taken over your brains....that's why men feel depressed after sex. Further you want to propose people look at porno because it is beautiful?

I do not agree with you. What does it mean to say 'the template of sex'?

Also, I don't think sex drive is not the soul reason that people find members of the opposite sex (or same sex) attractive.

The 'hormons' do not take over your 'brains' in the way you imply, and I for one certainly do not feel depressed after sex (just sleepy).

Why am I answering this post? - Go to school!

[ProCop]

I do not agree with you. What does it mean to say 'the template of sex'?

Template of beauty lets in only (mental)objects that qualify as beauty.Template of sex lets in only (mental)objects that qualify as sex. Sex is physical contact between people (based on instinct). Art/beauty is a different sort of "contact" between people(based on ideas/forms).

Also, I don't think sex drive is not the soul reason that people find members of the opposite sex (or same sex) attractive.

I agree. I should formulate the sentence differently: People's feeling to be <i>sexually</i> attracted towards ....

The 'hormons' do not take over your 'brains' in the way you imply, and I for one certainly do not feel depressed after sex (just sleepy).

I believe that hormons really do the job. Before the puberty people express their love differently.

[ProCop]

Possibly beauty should not be specified, I mean, described what it is. Let beauty be a secret. Then the things we see and recognise as beautiful are revelations of the "secret essence of beauty". This essence, I thing, is a complete mystery (something like God). Some would believe it exists (the essence) some would say there is no essence it's just a reaction of some chemikals in your brain provoked by a combination of lines and colors. Who is for the essence?

[DefSkeptic]

BlueUK-

agree, I didn't think they would

Yeah, I was just elaborating on your discussion, I hope I didnt seem like I was trying to correct you.

[Squashbuckler]

Speaking of relationships....
The sexual drive is something that is only seeking gratifacation, much like the humger drive.
However, sex is much more fufilling if you find the person who your sharing with it beautiful .
Beauty can be either physical, or as a result of another values relating to yourself.
For instance, I love my girlfriends values, mind, and body.
Makign love to her is not only satisfying my sex drive, but also pleasing because i find her beautiful.
imagine blindfolding yourself, then havingsex with someone, that is the gratification of your drive only.
That kind of sex will most likely become dull quickly.
Sometimes being blindfolded can even be better than having your eyes open in extreme cases!

Just my idea of separation between the two .

[Squashbuckler]

porno can be beautiful.
The female body can be very beautiful .
The sexual stimulus that is also provided can also be another primitive means of satisfying the sex drive.
even more so if masturbation is included.

[Abdiel]

Yeah it can but I think the question is why? I want to lengthen this thing later but basically Voltaire has said that beauty must arouse both pleasure and admiration...