Must we go to Shit?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by hypewaders, May 18, 2003.

  1. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    I must say something lucid before negativity renders me further numb. (too late, but here I go) I'm not a willful cynic but I don't find enlightenment anywhere anymore, including here. I don't need to lurk self-righteously to clickandclack I told you sos. I don't need to snicker at things going down the tubes, I don't even want them to go down at all. I don't get satisfaction trapping some everything'sallright pollyanna, some closet redneck, just to burst his/her worldview bubble, or feel smarter.

    I was once reasonably happy with the status quo, especially being luckily born white and American. I remember being hopeful at helping out a stranger, or being helped by one. Now I see national righteousness and selfishness growing. I refuse to gloat in our back-biting, vindictive descent. Something is slipping out way down deep underneath everything we base our suppositions about the structure of geo you-name-it. I am not OK and frankly neither are you. This is what I feel in my gut. We're going to shit, me and you.

    Yes you. We. US and everyone connected. Something is coming, I don't have a clear sense of it except that I don't want it. It's not Armageddon, not the New American Century, not the collapse of Capitalism or fall of any other -ism. Something less exciting, more mundane, worse than upheaval and chaos. Something gradually claiming every curious and fun-loving one of us in cynicism and mistrust, no matter what worldview we have surrounded ourselves with.

    Such a disgraceful unfulfilled potential as an intelligent species with the universe our oyster. The PanStupid juggernaut has a hold on us that is going to last at least a lifetime, and I only get one, dammit.

    In America, the Push Administration is being belatedly ratified by the increasingly out-of-touch democratic majority. Failure and fear will apparently deliver their success, justify greater power and abuse thereof, as Us and Them gets pushed to a new level of absurdity.

    I want better, but won't ever be President or King to sort it out, can't even find traction with my circle of friends. Shrugs and dismissals all around. But I refuse to be a cynic. Somebody tell me a plausible route out of this. I'm mostly happy in work and love, but that's not good enough. Give me a sound argument for jumping on the far-right bandwagon and I'll seriously consider if the fantasy can provide convincing hope for us all.

    Hope for us all. Somebody tell me one hopeful thing about world events and politics before I regress into a walled-up little life for the rest of my inscrutably finite days. Explain to me how those in power are bringing a better future, because I can't see it.

    Or explain to me how we can turn this around. Must we go to shit?
     
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  3. nico Banned Banned

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    Well one thing that gets me happy is that the Chinese are going to begin to challenge US hegemony, Democracy is surviving in Latin America. Those in power want to change the staus quo to conform to their ideals i.e PNAC. Meanwhile the American public sits back and blames everything on the terrorists they don't realize that the world hates them because of this callious attitude.I can see the end of capitalism, give this reccession a bit of time. Deflation is becoming a scary word in the halls of power, not unlike GWB. Things are changing not for the better mind you, when this "road map" fails the ME will explode like no other time. The only solace is to change the US administration ASAP!
     
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  5. spookz Banned Banned

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    dunno, perhaps some yoga? meditation?
    perhaps disillusionment increases as one becomes more aware of stuff. if so maybe nothing has really changed (superficially yes, fundamentally no)
     
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  7. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Huray Mao! Ommmmm....

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    Thanks nico & spookz, I feel so much better now.
     
  8. stu43t Valued Senior Member

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    I think It's because the world has become so small, in such a small space of time that it has us all in a muddle. We can't handle it at the moment but we will, in time.
     
  9. Jerrek Registered Senior Member

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    Being not born an American, and being a minority, and being a refugee, I fully support the current administration as it is. Bush is doing an excellent job.
     
  10. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Stu43, Call me an impatient materialist, but I want my starship now.

    I envy you Jerrek. It must be a beautiful dream to live in. Seems icky from my perspective, though.
     
  11. nico Banned Banned

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    Did I forget to mention that NMD will possibly start another arms race?

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  12. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Bad **** allways happens and humanity allways recovers. As long as people still play the game as they allways have the world will be put back together better than ever.

    The thing is: if china replaced america as a world power I would expect to see a period of stagnation and even worse living conditions. They kind of have a record of that sort of thing.
     
  13. Salty Registered Senior Member

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    That thing that is comming is the rise of the machine. We robots will crush you silly fleshlings.
     
  14. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    That would be good too.

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    Not such a bad fate.

    Drink more poweraid.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2003
  15. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

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    How about offering a million dollars to every american that voluntarily gets sterilized. That way the people who would do anything for money wouldn't reproduce (and no money if you've already had children, or have sperm/eggs in storage). But You'd need some billionaire to finance the project. Or you could just say fuck humanity and start considering yourself a new species.
     
  16. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Im a physical wreck from birth so thats fine by me. Id adopt. My brother will keep the family genes going. What about cloning?

    Remember though, any who have allready had a child will still be free to go into mass-production.
     
  17. spookz Banned Banned

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    fine! wallow in your misery
     
  18. Killjoy Propelling The Farce!! Valued Senior Member

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    In a word.... Yes...

    "Rational Thought" is, after all, an abberation...

    "Consciousness" itself an accident occuring during the evolution of "smarter monkeys"...

    "Society" is an imperfect adaptation adopted by the "super-apes", in an attempt - be it subconscious or intended - to combine elements of instictive behavior with the abberant processes which came to dominate their mental faculties...
    A manifestation of insanity - nothing more.

    "Progress" is the illusory betterment of "society" via the utilization of the "super-apes" amplified inventiveness to construct increasingly complex devices to supply surrogates for the experiences which once made their lives full and rewarding - as are those of all other creatures on Earth not tainted by being forced to become part of the delusory "society". Those which have been absorbed by "society" - eg: pets, zoo animals - tend to exhibit abberant mental processes similar to what are termed "neuroses" and "psychoses" in humans...


    Enjoy the ride...

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  19. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

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    Killjoy: What manifestations of animal behavior would not be considered insanity so that we can form a baseline?
     
  20. spookz Banned Banned

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    Re: Re: Must we go to Shit?

    "Rational Thought" is, after all, an abberation...[/i]

    how so? the norm is irrational thought?

    "Consciousness" itself an accident occuring during the evolution of "smarter monkeys"...


    how do you know this?

    "Society" is an imperfect adaptation.....

    what would be a perfect adaptation?

    .... adopted by the "super-apes", in an attempt - be it subconscious or intended - to combine elements of instictive behavior with the abberant processes which came to dominate their mental faculties...

    what are these aberrant processes?

    "Progress" is the illusory betterment of "society" via the utilization of the "super-apes" amplified inventiveness to construct increasingly complex devices to supply surrogates for the experiences which once made their lives full and rewarding -

    full and rewarding? i take it you mean when we hunted and gathered eh? i say nothing we invent is unnatural. it is part of us, nature, the universe. some adapt, some dont.

    as are those of all other creatures on Earth not tainted by being forced to become part of the delusory "society". Those which have been absorbed by "society" - eg: pets, zoo animals - tend to exhibit abberant mental processes similar to what are termed "neuroses" and "psychoses" in humans...

    not pets. domestication works for the most part. zoo animals? yes but that is hardly unexpected. caging wild animals does effect them adversely

    Enjoy the ride...

    i need a destination before i jump on the bus
     
  21. Killjoy Propelling The Farce!! Valued Senior Member

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    Gee!

    Just about anything animals in their natural habitats do!

    I mean you can't call, say, sharks "ripping prey to shreds" or wolves "stalking and killing caribou" murder ...

    You can't cal involuntary reflex actions prompted by senses other than the five we possess lunatic...

    Are seasonal migrations insane?

    Countless animal behaviors seem "pointless" or "stupid" to humans, because we base our assumptons of their value on the fact that, as "controllers" of our environment/habitat, we would simply alter the unsatisfactory circumstance...
     
  22. Killjoy Propelling The Farce!! Valued Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Must we go to Shit?

    A clumsy term "irrational thought", but in essence, yes, because then there is in effect no thought. Impulse leads directly to action.

    heh!
    A gigantic assumption, I admit! But, "no guts, no galaxy", as the slogan of a game I once played stated...
    I base this on the notion that no other life form displays the behavior of "imagining itself "
    They merely perform the actions necessary for survival.

    Hmmm... None!
    That is... Nothing that "rational thought" is capable of...
    A Bhuddist/Zen monastery, perhaps...

    Ahhh... Where to begin...
    The need to categorize and describe - especially the notion that a thing is "understood" merely because it has been given a convenient label, the mania for an "ideal" body type, the cult of youthful appearance, the mania for "thrill"-related activities...

    Part of the Universe of course...
    "Naturalness" is another matter. Is a vehicle natural? Are we to separate something like a horse-drawn cart from an automobile?
    Your comment appears to indicate a disparaging assessment of the "hunting & gatherng" state of affairs. I submit that this is due to the jaded sensibilities of 21st century human life.
    As a "thinking" person, "roughing it" in the extreme like that would seem to me as well to be tedious and backbreaking.
    However, I have yet to see convincing evidence of "depressed" or "neurotic" wild animals, whose entire existences are almost nothing else but these basic activities...

    Indeed! Humans evolved over millions of years into behavioral patterns which we as members of a "society" would deem those of "wild animals". "Society" has existed for perhaps twenty thousand years... A long time to build a cage, but that's what it is.
    Domestication works for humans! We get surrogate children to fuss over! Pets are "nut cases" whose instinctive behavior patterns are obliterated in order that they might conform to human "needs"


    You (and I) are already on the bus...
    Destination? Extinction.
     
  23. spookz Banned Banned

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    definitely a killjoy

    A clumsy term "irrational thought", but in essence, yes, because then there is in effect no thought. Impulse leads directly to action.

    i like it

    heh!
    A gigantic assumption, I admit! But, "no guts, no galaxy", as the slogan of a game I once played stated...
    I base this on the notion that no other life form displays the behavior of "imagining itself "
    They merely perform the actions necessary for survival.


    assumptions. however thats all we can do so......i like it

    Hmmm... None!
    That is... Nothing that "rational thought" is capable of...
    A Bhuddist/Zen monastery, perhaps...


    like it even more

    Ahhh... Where to begin...
    The need to categorize and describe - especially the notion that a thing is "understood" merely because it has been given a convenient label, the mania for an "ideal" body type, the cult of youthful appearance, the mania for "thrill"-related activities...


    the first part is a human condition, essential if we are to give meaning to our surroundings. the last part seems to be time and culture specific ie fads......blah. how about a compromise? lets indulge in rational thought, lets categorise, the difference this time is the emphasis we give to these things. in essence lets be aware of the workings of the mind


    Part of the Universe of course...
    "Naturalness" is another matter. Is a vehicle natural? Are we to separate something like a horse-drawn cart from an automobile?
    Your comment appears to indicate a disparaging assessment of the "hunting & gatherng" state of affairs. I submit that this is due to the jaded sensibilities of 21st century human life.
    As a "thinking" person, "roughing it" in the extreme like that would seem to me as well to be tedious and backbreaking.
    However, I have yet to see convincing evidence of "depressed" or "neurotic" wild animals, whose entire existences are almost nothing else but these basic activities...


    not disparaging, just that its old hat (been there done that, we can forage in space for a change now) the onus is on the human to evolve and keep pace with change. we have the potential to take all this shit in stride. evidence of maladaptions is not a reason to stop or turn back the clock. rather it should be an indication that we need to try harder to cope. i am very optimistic


    Indeed! Humans evolved over millions of years into behavioral patterns which we as members of a "society" would deem those of "wild animals". "Society" has existed for perhaps twenty thousand years... A long time to build a cage, but that's what it is.

    nonsense

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    kinda vague tho i still understand what you are trying to say. i do not find it too hard to find a balance b/w the stresses of modern day life and ....?

    Domestication works for humans! We get surrogate children to fuss over! Pets are "nut cases" whose instinctive behavior patterns are obliterated in order that they might conform to human "needs"

    its a two way street. at one point in time the wild animals decided to throw their lot in with the humans

    You (and I) are already on the bus...
    Destination? Extinction.


    i aint on shit fella
     

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