at least Usama has admirable aims...

Usama Bin Laden may be a bad man, responsible for funding terrorists who have killed civilians over the world. but at least he is fighting for an admirable cause - removal of american imperialist forces in the holy land (hell im up for getting the yanks out of everywhere) and the palestinian cause.

Our (the wests) murder of thousands of civilians for the "freedom" of nations such as Iraq... what are our motives, money and oil... disapointing.

 

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Do the ends justify the means? Seems to me people like Gandhi and MLK Jr. were more succcessful with their methods. What would happen if the Isrealis tried to drive thier tanks through streets filled with thousands of people just sitting there? The only thing skyjackings and suicide bombings do is provide a fragile justification for the response. Is this right? No, but violence begets violence and Osama started it.

BTW what about our people who died for this?

 

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not talking about the means im talking about the fact that at the end of the day at least he is fighting for something worth fighting for.

personally i believe that they should adopt non violent tactics. blessed are the meek. : )

sorry dont understand...

 

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I can agree with his aims, but the means...

Americans(and others) died in both Gulf Wars, and in other campaigns related to the War on Terrorism. You mentioned civilian deaths, I was just wondering.

 

soldiers ?

I consider dying to be their job they have to found about yet .

Is that unreasonable ?

PS , about Usama his aims....thats really my problem with him , his Islamism . There is a follow up after the downfall of Imperialism u know ..........

But all is forgiven as he brings down the 50 stars of zion , we'll just have to deal with his religious bullshit later on .......

UBL=HERO

 

The tactics of nonviolence only work in those cultures which are civilized enough to respect such tactics. Thus you have a Gandhi shaming Britain, or a MLK moving the USA to his position. These tactics don't work against brutal regimes, because they'll simply shoot you. The Nazis would have shot a Gandhi early on, and Saddam would have fed MLK into a plastic shredder, except for his head, which he probably would have stuck up on a pole in the town square.

 

Johnny,
as a muslim I have to agree and disagree with you.
First with regards to the "admirability" of his cause. Now Allahs maths knows of my feelings with regards to this specific matter. I personally doubt that Bin Laden really has any true heartfelt empathy with the Palastinian people and their cause. No, I truly believe that he only really cares about getting the US off of his home soil, Saudi. Now that in itself is fine, and admirable, however the mantle of islamic savior has been wrongly (in my opinion) placed upon his shoulders by the majority of Muslims around the world, for whom Bin Laden is seen as a noble warrior who is fighting a "worthy" cause. But this perception is a misconception, simply because there has never been a man quite like Bin Laden (in modern times anyway), and who has done what he has done. Now Bin laden is quite happy to exploit and fully utilise the high moral position which has been placed upon him. so from that point of view, then 9/11 was unjustified. But more importantly, 9/11 ultimately ended up being totally impotent in achieving its aims. Just what tangible achievements were attained? Nothing. Was the Palastine conflict lessened ONE percent? no. Absolutely no tangible, useable, defineable benefits, ie: PROGRESSION was achieved by 9/11.
Hence as a moral warrior (irrespective of whether or not he actually IS) he has failed condiderably.
Islamic feeling has been further polarised, American imperialism has been unscathed, on the contrary it has been further galvanised. 911 added a moral gloss to Bush's global agenda, and facilitated the attack on Afghanistan, and Iraq, and any/all mideast countries the US wishes to attack in the future.
You know when kids see something really spectacular they go:
"WOW!!!......cooooooool!"
Well when the majority of Muslims saw 911, thats what their gut reaction was. Off course they sympathised with the tragedy and deaths,...but that latent childlike "coooool" factor was awoken within them, for as an event it truly was spectacular.
But ultimately thats all it will be remembered for, a spectacular event, whilst the ripple effect and deep seeded ramifications of 911 will only be truly seen in years to come.
And i'll tell you something for nothing, the real benificiaries of 911 will be the right wing political parties in America, Europe, and Britain, my home.:bugeye:

 

Amen

 

good grief!!!

the one person who I didn't want to agree with me is.

Alan, now you can quote me in your "islam is wrong" ramblings.

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Bhud: you have a "stopped clock" karma goin' on...what can I say.

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..maybe it's because it's been a hard day, or perhaps it's because I truly am thick, but Alan as usual I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Not your fault, if you don't get the reference. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

u mean idiots that let themselves be led by rhetorics ?

I agree with you insofar that im certain UBL cares more for the direspect of mecca then he does of the genocide against palestine . Again his religious motives are what I come in conflict with .

There hasnt and indeed the lack of this made him look better than he is , but lets not forget he did achieve things , he has smacked the 50 stars of zion as if there was no tomorrow .
Indeed progression wasnt achieved , but only a fool would believe that wounding your enemy who is 1000X stronger will actually make him stop . Its a proces we're dealing with , and eventually its the people that will take measures themselves , but all this depends on how it goes from here , its UBL's move.........if he doesnt do shit , then it was a waste and indeed not to be considered a proces and merely just a cause for even more pain and suffering in the mid-east (because thats how 9-11 is used ofcourse the cause is somewhere else)

Untill now yes , but what if the process continues ? The purpose is to make people raise against eachother ....Perhaps the fascist are becoming more honest , thats a good thing . Honesty is what destroys lies , and when it becomes visible people WILL make up their minds , and they WILL be confronted with them .

9-11 was no one time thing , it was the declaration of war against imperialism . But only the future will prove matters .

 

Dream on, you pencil-dicked bitch. Bin Ladin is - well, look at Afghanistan. Ya? Look at Iraq. Ya?

Get it yet? 9-11 accomplished nothing.

 

Xev: not so. 9/11 finally got us off our keysters and motivated us to do something about the menace of Islamist terrorism.

 

U having sexuality issues Xev ?
Watch it before I make u wear a Burqa

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It accomplished quite alot but nothing progresive for the well-being of the Islamic society in general , but this is so if its viewed singular , and like I said 9-11 isnt a one time thing , its a decleration of war .

I suggest u read what i write before u try and refute it with a view already explained .

Most of u didnt even know the existence of the entire phenomena pre-9-11 . Funny , while its USA thats behind Islamic fundamentalism in the guerilla warfare forms it has become .

 

Math: sure we did. We'd had over 20 years of increasing attacks which were not given the seriousness they are now getting.

 

Not taken serious by who ? By the government who created them ? Or by the people who still had images of IRA when the talk was terrorism ?

My comment was about the people .

 

Ah...lol...the US is responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
OK, I guess then the Taliban and Saddam are responsible for the reprisals...whatever.

 

Like what?

So then why is everyone so pissed that we retaliated? It was a declaration of war alright - just dont get mad at the consequences you face after you declare war on the biggest military in the world

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